That's interesting. Logically that always seemed the best way for me, but I don't know why, people in specialty coffee like their bags untouched. Seal it, put it in the cupboard. By the way wouldn't the seueezed out bag be enough? There's a seal and a one way valve, maybe you don't need the clip?
a squeezed out bag would work with a zip, I just find them harder to squeeze everything out. The one way valve doesn't help longer term as you lose co2 and aromatics and the coffee will taste quite flat. Taping the valve is a good idea if a bag has one.
@@coffeewithmaxwell1835 - There's still going to be air between the beans. The difference between rolling up a bag and sealing it, vs. squeezing the excess air out through the one way valve (assuming the valve and the ziplock seal are doing their jobs properly) can't be much.
Hi! Thanks for the info I had a question. For cafe setup what is the best way to store whole beans ? Also can a day worth of beans be stored in a grinder hopper? Thanks in advance
I would recommend a similar storage method with cafe bags. One days amount in a hopper is ok I think as long as it isn't exposed heavily to heat or light. It is more sensible to have say half a days volume in the hopper.
I need to do your test with my method. I use wine bottles and a vacu-vin seal system used for wine. It definitely keeps wine good for weeks so should work for coffee?
I wrap and rubber band the bag ( and squeeze out the air ) ,then put it into a Fellow canister. If you do not seal the vent hole in the bag when you vac seal it in the fellow it takes all the air out of the bag.
For years I've stored my beans in a ziplock freezer bag (not storage bags, freezer bags are thicker). Before seaIing I lower the bag into a bowl of water to squeeze out as much air as possible before closing the last inch of zipper. Pay attention to not get the water anywhere near the seal. It's not a vacuum, but it there is no head space. I store at room temperature, not in the freezer. Works well.
Hey Maxwell! I was wondering, why drop the valves on the nitrogen flushed bags? Do you have any issues with over-inflating as the coffee degasses, or do you rest for enough time to prevent that?
What do you think about using the hoover to suck out air from the bag valve once you close it again? Would it help to reduce the available space inside the bag or compromise the volatile aroma?
In general it appears sucking air out isn't good at preserving the coffee as it does as you say pull out aromatics and c02. I would rather a "soft" method of leaving less air in.
When I first started out in coffee I used Airscape canisters - www.bellabarista.co.uk/brands/airscape.html for UK or planetarydesign.com/product-category/airscape-storage-products/ for US - elegant solution. It's in with the James Hoffmann review below that Vihan linked to but didn't form part of the test so no idea how it stacks up with the other 10 products. I freeze mine now for at home.
What is your thought about those single-dose bean cellars/tubes like the Weber's? While it is airtight and has a one-way valve, there is still a visible column of air on top of the beans (around 1/3 of the tube). Is this amount of air significant enough to oxidize the beans to cause noticeable difference?
It totally is enough oxygen to be an issue, yes- I’m not a big fan of these. I saw them used a lot at coffee comps to freeze doses: kept longer than several hours and the coffee quality decreased. There’s a moisture piece there too. I think these work for some doses on a bar for an ek but not for any prolonged storage. In a weird way it’s possible the Coffee all kept in a tin or bag creates a bit of its own barrier at the bottom potentially. Splitting them up opens them potentially up to more air- unless into inert environments
This is helpful! I know some companies make those jars where the airtight lid gets lower as you take coffee out for exactly this reason. I guess that would stand up against the Fellow in this experiment? Keep up the good work!
@@coffeewithmaxwell1835 I watched the whole video but I had to throw it in lmao. I actually painfully experimented with many methods and had numerous good bags of coffee go stale in the process before finally conceding to single dose freezing. I did not want to accept it, since as you say its laborious and adds cost/waste. For us in the US though, I think it's the only real way to store coffees from Europe which can often take over 2 weeks to reach us. Even if it's been nitroflushed, the coffee has already become so degassed which makes it extremely vulnerable, since any storage container won't have that CO2 atmosphere inside to protect the beans
@@subi7o if they coffee is already being degassed and you are shipping around the road then I see your point. its not simply storing something roasted a week ago. When you refer to nitrogen flushed environments not working - do you mean ones with valves? or fully sealed environments. Agreed that with valves everything still leaves- nitro and co2 and aromatics, you just have less oxygen, but in a positive pressure environment c02 is retained for longer.
@@coffeewithmaxwell1835 Ah yeah I'm referring to bags with valves. I don't think I ever receive coffee these days in a bag without a valve. And actually I started doing this thing where after I'm done resting a coffee (10-14 days preferably) I'll then tape over the valve with some electrical tape just to preserve the aromas while the bag is stored in the freezer. But I'm also the kind of guy who usually has lots of coffee stocked up, , so coffee I have can go unused for a while. I don't know if it does anything noticeable but in my head it's a minor optimization!
@@subi7o That taping makes total sense! we got rid of valves a while ago in non nitro bags and the testing we are doing with nitro is with no valves as well. I think a valve is needed with dark roast to stop popping but otherwise I think no valve is much better !
Haha. Thanks for the feedback….Maybe you shouldn’t watch my videos…. This channel is a place for me to explore topics in coffee in a way that doesn’t oversimplify things. I want to dig into the complexities. That’s what I enjoy and the channel is for me too: I’ve had a lot of feedback from coffee professionals and enthusiasts saying how refreshing the channel is because of this. Im not here to offer short simple how to videos. There’s plenty of other channels doing that.
@@coffeewithmaxwell1835 floating around subjects, bringing up irrelevant things and not making your videos approachable, won't make your goal to communicate what you want in the end. Your views reflect on that. As far as the comments you are reffering to, we both know that even the worst coffee shop has clients that claim they drink there, the best coffee you can buy... I tried to sent you this in a pm, but I you haven't the option in your profile. I really want to dive in the subjects you bring up, but contrary to other vids, I find myself scrolling my phone and not hearing what you're saying.... You could look into it or keep it doing as you already do. It's your matter either way and good luck....
@@KostasSiderisBarista haha. You really don’t like my approach…:) too bad. Analogy is how I approach innovation and research in coffee. They aren’t irrelevant. There’s different approaches, I appreciate you don’t sync with my approach, that’s cool, I’ll keep doing what I do. Good luck with what you do also.
@@KostasSiderisBarista really its all the same thing. id be happy to debate this for hours, I am passionate about this concept you are touching on. you can DM on instagram or mail me at maxwell@colonnacoffee.com
I always store my potato chips just like that with the clip and it stays crispy much longer😂
exactly. its the same right, it seems funny, but its totally the same !
That's interesting. Logically that always seemed the best way for me, but I don't know why, people in specialty coffee like their bags untouched. Seal it, put it in the cupboard. By the way wouldn't the seueezed out bag be enough? There's a seal and a one way valve, maybe you don't need the clip?
a squeezed out bag would work with a zip, I just find them harder to squeeze everything out. The one way valve doesn't help longer term as you lose co2 and aromatics and the coffee will taste quite flat. Taping the valve is a good idea if a bag has one.
@@coffeewithmaxwell1835 - There's still going to be air between the beans. The difference between rolling up a bag and sealing it, vs. squeezing the excess air out through the one way valve (assuming the valve and the ziplock seal are doing their jobs properly) can't be much.
Hi!
Thanks for the info
I had a question.
For cafe setup what is the best way to store whole beans ?
Also can a day worth of beans be stored in a grinder hopper?
Thanks in advance
I would recommend a similar storage method with cafe bags. One days amount in a hopper is ok I think as long as it isn't exposed heavily to heat or light. It is more sensible to have say half a days volume in the hopper.
Even rolling down the extra space and removing the air doesn’t help. I’ve noticed that in the original bag it will always stale in about 10 - 21 days.
I need to do your test with my method. I use wine bottles and a vacu-vin seal system used for wine. It definitely keeps wine good for weeks so should work for coffee?
I wrap and rubber band the bag ( and squeeze out the air ) ,then put it into a Fellow canister. If you do not seal the vent hole in the bag when you vac seal it in the fellow it takes all the air out of the bag.
For years I've stored my beans in a ziplock freezer bag (not storage bags, freezer bags are thicker). Before seaIing I lower the bag into a bowl of water to squeeze out as much air as possible before closing the last inch of zipper. Pay attention to not get the water anywhere near the seal. It's not a vacuum, but it there is no head space. I store at room temperature, not in the freezer. Works well.
sounds like a good solution!
Hey Maxwell! I was wondering, why drop the valves on the nitrogen flushed bags? Do you have any issues with over-inflating as the coffee degasses, or do you rest for enough time to prevent that?
we found the blind relsust better with no valve. one can speculate as to why, with possibly volatiles leaving though the bag as well as c02.
What do you think about using the hoover to suck out air from the bag valve once you close it again? Would it help to reduce the available space inside the bag or compromise the volatile aroma?
In general it appears sucking air out isn't good at preserving the coffee as it does as you say pull out aromatics and c02. I would rather a "soft" method of leaving less air in.
When I first started out in coffee I used Airscape canisters - www.bellabarista.co.uk/brands/airscape.html for UK or planetarydesign.com/product-category/airscape-storage-products/ for US - elegant solution. It's in with the James Hoffmann review below that Vihan linked to but didn't form part of the test so no idea how it stacks up with the other 10 products. I freeze mine now for at home.
thanks Lee. I did mean to mention this one in the video. In theory it addresses the same issue. I have one on the way to test. Thanks for sharing !
@Lee Hall Lee old chap, what vessel do you use for freezer storage?
What is your thought about those single-dose bean cellars/tubes like the Weber's? While it is airtight and has a one-way valve, there is still a visible column of air on top of the beans (around 1/3 of the tube). Is this amount of air significant enough to oxidize the beans to cause noticeable difference?
It totally is enough oxygen to be an issue, yes- I’m not a big fan of these. I saw them used a lot at coffee comps to freeze doses: kept longer than several hours and the coffee quality decreased. There’s a moisture piece there too.
I think these work for some doses on a bar for an ek but not for any prolonged storage. In a weird way it’s possible the Coffee all kept in a tin or bag creates a bit of its own barrier at the bottom potentially. Splitting them up opens them potentially up to more air- unless into inert environments
So many takeaways right here, thanks for sharing!
This is helpful! I know some companies make those jars where the airtight lid gets lower as you take coffee out for exactly this reason. I guess that would stand up against the Fellow in this experiment?
Keep up the good work!
ruclips.net/video/K0JWuhE8a-w/видео.html
Yes I did mean to mention this one. I have some on order to try, they address the same issue for sure! thank you :)
great video! I learned a lot 👍
Wait 1-2 weeks for coffee to peak --> single dose freeze baybeeee
Haha, you'll see I say excluding dressing which is a brilliant but laborious and complex way to store coffee. but yes freezing works extremely well
@@coffeewithmaxwell1835 I watched the whole video but I had to throw it in lmao. I actually painfully experimented with many methods and had numerous good bags of coffee go stale in the process before finally conceding to single dose freezing. I did not want to accept it, since as you say its laborious and adds cost/waste.
For us in the US though, I think it's the only real way to store coffees from Europe which can often take over 2 weeks to reach us. Even if it's been nitroflushed, the coffee has already become so degassed which makes it extremely vulnerable, since any storage container won't have that CO2 atmosphere inside to protect the beans
@@subi7o if they coffee is already being degassed and you are shipping around the road then I see your point. its not simply storing something roasted a week ago. When you refer to nitrogen flushed environments not working - do you mean ones with valves? or fully sealed environments. Agreed that with valves everything still leaves- nitro and co2 and aromatics, you just have less oxygen, but in a positive pressure environment c02 is retained for longer.
@@coffeewithmaxwell1835 Ah yeah I'm referring to bags with valves. I don't think I ever receive coffee these days in a bag without a valve. And actually I started doing this thing where after I'm done resting a coffee (10-14 days preferably) I'll then tape over the valve with some electrical tape just to preserve the aromas while the bag is stored in the freezer. But I'm also the kind of guy who usually has lots of coffee stocked up, , so coffee I have can go unused for a while. I don't know if it does anything noticeable but in my head it's a minor optimization!
@@subi7o That taping makes total sense! we got rid of valves a while ago in non nitro bags and the testing we are doing with nitro is with no valves as well. I think a valve is needed with dark roast to stop popping but otherwise I think no valve is much better !
I am really struggling keeping my interest in your vids.... Please make them more direct and short.
Haha. Thanks for the feedback….Maybe you shouldn’t watch my videos…. This channel is a place for me to explore topics in coffee in a way that doesn’t oversimplify things. I want to dig into the complexities. That’s what I enjoy and the channel is for me too:
I’ve had a lot of feedback from coffee professionals and enthusiasts saying how refreshing the channel is because of this. Im not here to offer short simple how to videos. There’s plenty of other channels doing that.
@@coffeewithmaxwell1835 floating around subjects, bringing up irrelevant things and not making your videos approachable, won't make your goal to communicate what you want in the end. Your views reflect on that. As far as the comments you are reffering to, we both know that even the worst coffee shop has clients that claim they drink there, the best coffee you can buy... I tried to sent you this in a pm, but I you haven't the option in your profile. I really want to dive in the subjects you bring up, but contrary to other vids, I find myself scrolling my phone and not hearing what you're saying.... You could look into it or keep it doing as you already do. It's your matter either way and good luck....
@@KostasSiderisBarista haha. You really don’t like my approach…:) too bad. Analogy is how I approach innovation and research in coffee. They aren’t irrelevant. There’s different approaches, I appreciate you don’t sync with my approach, that’s cool, I’ll keep doing what I do. Good luck with what you do also.
@@coffeewithmaxwell1835 I didn't bring up your work. Just your current video skills
@@KostasSiderisBarista really its all the same thing. id be happy to debate this for hours, I am passionate about this concept you are touching on. you can DM on instagram or mail me at maxwell@colonnacoffee.com
Sir, edit out those slurps! Very annoying.