It is interesting how chinese brands have caught up aero-wise without seemingly having to invest as much in aero testing, Specialized are known for having built their own wind tunnel, while other brands leverage ex F1 aero know how from the likes of Simon Smart at drag2zero or specialist like Swissside, but you see less about how the Chinese brands arrive at their rim profiles, hub choices etc. Years ago the aero performance of Chinese wheels seemed hit & miss - I remember there was a Zipp copy that tested well with those in know & then some of the 3 spokes copies worked well, but now it seems more Chinese brands are consistent in their performance. Is it through better computer models, utilising knowledge gained from other brands that tested well - mimicking rim shapes or just the fact that there really is not that much you can do with a carbon wheel that is miles different? Caden use particularly narrow hubs on their tri spoke, Swissside take into account rotational drag with hidden spoke nipples, relatively small hubs and narrow in the modern sense rims, but guessing the advantages are getting smaller from these slight differences.
@@morrisizing To be fair they could just be reverse engineering the wheels from the companies you mentioned and then fine-tuning their designs based on them. Just a theory anyway.
@@morrisizingHe's mentioned previously Craft Works' owner used to work for a top wheel company so the guy surely does know what he's doing The mystery here is as to what capacity. He needs to know R&D as manufacturing is likely the easiest puzzle to solve being in China
Some interesting points - Joe could you elaborate. For instance: do the Chinese 'brands' have access to wind tunnels? given that most of the manufacturers do not make their own wheels - who is actually making them? Do CRW make rims for anyone else? Given China is kinda closed to the western world (and does what it likes - look at the car industry, little IP or TM respect) - how do we know they don't just hand around their moulds for profiling after hours?
Agreed, probably one of the most transparent creators out there. Admits and even calls attention to his biases, whereas even those who buy the products they review seem not to realize the bias that creates.
I genuinely appreciate your time, then sharing the knowledge for our community but most importantly I felt your honesty came shining through when giving kudos to a Wheelset you do not retail..... Great work and gives me confidence that I could buy from you....Thanks
This a super review - really good work! Can I suggest another score: the Crit race score. Crits often have a mix of all conditions & knowing whether a wheel would be good under (what for most of us) will probably be a max/extreme use would be amazing!
Wow this is an awesome wheel comparison Joe, thanks so much, enjoyed it a lot and I'll share it too. I don't know if it's of interest but on my channel I've done in-depth looks at Chinese wheels (ICAN, Light Bicycles, Elite). I do it from my perspective as a wheel builder checking trueness, roundness, tension, dish, centering, spoke length, ease of tire installation, etc. So it's different than how you've compared these wheels but it helps me appreciate the work that went into your video. Thanks again. Great job!
Great job. For years, Steve Hed, working with Lance, would use clear sealant and caulk the transition between wheel shoulder and tire, till UCI found out and outlawed it.
I'm so happy you made this video. Lots of my friends are riding CLX2 and are sceptical when I tell them how impressed I am with my CRW5060's. They cannot believe that a Chinese made wheelset could possibly be better than their expensive Specialized wheels. Now I can show them the proof👍🏻
They are not better they are just cheaper and lighter. Aerodynamic wise, roval is ahead especially with the team edition that's why they opted for metal spoke vs carbon spoke. Listen to the reviews.
OMG Joe, you REALLY are a wheel nerd... Thank you for the effort, one of the best & most detailed wheel analyses I have ever seen so far... I was hoping you'd pick the Lun wheel but that's just me. RIM profiles were great!!!
Detailed report. Thank you. Would love to see you test the various ‘wavy wheels’. Loght Bicycle makes a few sizes of rims with side waves. As opposed to the Zipp and Cambridge waves.
My guess for the even lateral stiffness in the front wheel on the rovals is that it comes from the bigger P.C.D. on the "flat" side of the spokes. This changes the angle of the spokes so it matches the opposite side. There is probably more going one since the difference in the back wheel is also pretty good without the change in P.C.D.
I have Campa Zonda after stock and never dreamed of Roval. But the facts here made me stay from start to end :) Good work! Edit: Roval sound check - whole bike shaking, CRW - so smooth
#16:50 The next generation of prop making: Play-Doh molds! Great solution to a problem without cutting a rim or a frame cross-section, thought you used 2-part silicone putty on first look... you did a really nice wheel comparison!
The comfort you experience with the Rovals compared to the CRW is down to the spokes. Amazing no one ever talks about spokes in compression. Yes, spokes are tensioned to pull the rim in and hold it in position. But when rolling and hitting holes, the wheel goes into compression for an instant. Carbon is king in tension, but scary in compression. Great work and appreciate the honesty of your videos. I'm dreaming for my next bike to make some significant purchases through Panda Podium - waiting to see the Seka Spear on your site. Cheers
Yes the additional "comfort" is due to the steel spokes but it's because steel spokes are "springier", that is, the steel spokes elongate/stretch more for the same amount of force as compared to carbon spokes. In the case of bicycle wheels, the spokes in the portion of wheel in contact with the ground unload a bit which in turn applies more force to the rest of the spokes. So steel spokes "absorb" the road roughness & bumps more instead of transmitting it to the rest of the bikes like how carbon fibre spokes do. Spokes in most wheel designs cannot go into compression because at least one end is usually not fixed, in most wheels, it would be at the nipple.
Awesome comparative review and video, Joe. Very much appreciate all the content you produce and provide to the World. -From the guy with the Elves bike at Sea Otter ;-). Cheers!
Yes Joe!!! Loving this video!! Happy customer here and I’ve brought the magene powermeter pes and the farsports f1 handlebar, both amazing products. I’m really weighing up buying the Tavelo arow but really looking for a review on the frameset?! 🙏 Great video and I would love to see more wheels being tested
I got my Arow just yesterday... waiting to find time to build it up. It's a bit heavier than I'd like, but thats what happens when you do fancy paint jobs... Full review coming.... soon?
@@ChinaCycling thanks so much, I’ve been emailing you’re college Tom Zeng about the Arow. Toss up between allez sprint, tcr (2022) and the Arow. Leaning towards the arow as I want to use it to race.
To be upfront, own a pair of CLX ll, they came on my S Works. I also own a pair of CRW & Hyper 50s. My personal opinion the Roval are by far the better built of the 3 & performance is great. I rate my Hypers 50s a close 2nd as they are solid, fast & haven’t had an issue in 33,000 KM. My CRW aren’t bad but just don’t have the same WOW factor. Just my personal preference 👍
Carbon Wheelset from Avian are 🔥🔥🔥 They’re cheap like $400 for the 50mm, weighs 1500g for a pair, durable and holds speed well 👌🏼 Used mine for 2 years and no issues on my pair until just a few weeks ago a motorcycle rear ended me. They also have top notch customer support.
This video is great as it is 👍 no need to fret about Roval CLX Team Edition as they are an addition to Spesh’s line. It’s not a replacement to the on-going Roval CLX’s. cheers
Great honest review. They are too big for me. Have you tried the CRW Works CS4045 Road Disc Brake Wheelset? Presumably, they are just as fast on the road and not so twitchy on the front?
thanks for the interesting observations and testing - between you at 50 something kg and peak torque at 80 somethign we should also be able to get a sense of how wheels handle with a range of overall system weight
Hi Joe, what do you think about Avian wheels? On paper they look like a steal. I've seen you're selling their handlebars. Are the wheels any good? Thanks for your video's I really enjoy them!
We need to test wheels on a test bench puy through load cycles. Weight being saved on spokes is ok if the bonding holds up. Weight at the rim is where you'll notice it.
I once had a bad experience with a carbon spoke, when it broke in the middle of the journey, the other spoke broke very quickly along the way. and in my country it takes quite a long time to get spare parts. Steel spoke is the best
Great job. I purchased the CRW 5055's from Panda Podium They are impressive. Wondering: Does the wheel finish affect the aero performance at all? The CRW's have a slightly glossy finish while the Roval's have more of a matte finish.
Very good question. I have to imagine it does, and I'd imagine smoother is faster... but... if that were true, all bikes and wheels would surely be glossy. So, maybe the answer i "who knows?"
Been wanting to get a set of the CRW 40/45 but being in the US afraid if I had any issue, it would be a long time before I could get back riding them again. I need something to light up my HEAVY emonda sl7 help. Great video
I like the chart which shows the power and Cda for each wheel set. Is it possible to add other rim depths? for instance is you had 40mm rims, is there any point in upgrading to 50:60mm? what is the watt saving at 40 kmh?
I think at that price point, i would value warranty really high. But i don't think i could ever justify a purchase a wheelset in that price range. Last wheelset was from yuananbike. But i love watching these videos and dream a little.
Thanks for this. I'm on Roval cl50s (gen 1), as I don't do tubeless. Would definitely go for the crw for sure once I commit to a lightweight build (think Aethos integrated, unless CN release something similar)
@@ChinaCycling indeed that's the plan to replace my SL7 in a few years. Probs next gen CRW (even wider?!) and hopefully CN comes out with a fully integrated aethos-y looking frameset too!
Appreciate the effort I am surprised by the relatively low stiffness compared to the Roval that are not any stiffness monster. The cost to pay to be lighter but I measured the Hyper (rim brakes) quite stiffer than the Rovals for a weight sub 1300g (ok with a narrower rim and more prone to stability challenges), shame they didn’t reproduced their performance on this front.
@@ChinaCycling I need to correct, my memory was partially wrong. Using the more std full jigs (used by Tour, LeCycle and the majority of the brands) than those half ones (that do not replicate how a wheel is connected to a frame) the front wheel is indeed very flexible sub 40N/mm and the rear offers a solid 49N/mm (that is considered as a very stiff wheel since they usually average low 40s). Applying the same ratio to the CRW that would put the rear wheel around 34N/mm that is really really low (few brands engineering teams would put this in the not rideable category)
Any idea whether the aero sensor software is able to work out the changes in weight and rolling resistance (bearing friction difference may be negligible, but perhaps tire width change from internal width difference on the front)? Edited to add: Hardly matters since the power meter variance likely conceals such small differences, but props for doing the utmost to eliminate the wind variability.
I'm impressed. I was expecting poorly hidden hinting that the brand you sell and promote is better and that the established brand (a competitor) does not have better charcteristics, but well done on really trying to stay neutral and present a sober, honest review. Way to go to build trust and a good reputation both as a youtuber and retailer.
Thanks for appreciating that. RUclips can be so sour with bias, etc, and now audience also have a bias (expecting everything to be bias, bias.) So I'm trying to change that. :)
@@ChinaCycling Couldn't agree more. Trust is low in society in general these days. I think if you stay on this path of absolute truth and transparency you'll do really well over time.
The Roval's maybe also have a heavier hub than the CRWs, more material in the flanges and/or hub body should result in a stiffer hub, hence the reason why the Rovals are stiffer overall even though they have steel spokes. A fraction of an mm deflection at the hub could be amplified to a couple of mm at the rim.
Really enjoyed the video! Where would you recommend buying the CRW wheels from if I am residing in China? I found a listing on Taobao but the SRAM XDR model is out of stock while I see it in stock on Panda Podium. Also can I just swap the Shimano freehub body to SRAM like with DT Swiss hubs? Thanks!
Also contemplating 5060vs6575 for my Cervelo S5. I mostly ride on flats 40-45kph and I weigh in at 85kg. But I usually go climb mountains once or twice a week here in Beijing and on occasion we can have some strong winds.
Absolutely awesome video and comparison 10/10. I would like to know if you have any video on Magene EXAR DB508 Ultra Wheelset. In my case it’s between the magene db508 or crw 5060. Im a tall guys, 196cm and 90kg. Any suggestions would be highly appreciated, thank you.
I've ridden the magene ultras. Very good wheels. Haven't aero tested them yet tho. The crws are more comfy, but the magenes ain't bad! Check out Patrick Linos channel.
@@ChinaCycling thank you kindly for prompt reply. The area we live in does get quiet windy at times, In terms of cross winds performance which one do you feel is more steady (90kg rider). Thank you
Ive got the 50mm CLX2 that came stock on my sl8 tarmac sworks. They are ok but my r33 hyper rim brakes feel WAY better and when I need max performance I use my rim brake bike with the lightest rim brake wheels like the r33 or my lightweight meilenstein.
Hi mate I always like to watch this videos because I think big brands are always overpriced and I buy loads of good stuff from china, I was considering buying my first carbon wheelset but im not sure if I should go with the "easy" route and get Elitewheels like a lot of people or buy Go-Zone wheels that no one talked about but it seems like they are made on a very good factory... Have you had any experience with Go-Zone wheels or products? Thank you
100kg weight limit for rider + bike. Just inspect your bike regularly if you're near the top end of that. (Which is good advice for every component of your bike.)
great review given your limited testing equipment. I have to point out that "LIGHTER" s NOT necessarily faster. It depends on weight DISTIBUTION Watch any figure skater spinning. The skater is the same weight during her/his spin but when the arms are out, the spin is slower, The spin gets tremendously faster as the arms, hence, the weight, is brought into the body (the center of the spin). Angular momentum = angular velocity X Angular MASS and all that stuff , or Angular VELOCITY = Angular ÷ Object's Mass, so the Object's MASS (the weight on the outside) gets smaller, the Angular VELOCIYT gets BIGGER, i.e. faster So IF the Roval has a heavier hub but the RIM (and the distributed spoke weight) weight is significantly less than the CRW, the Roval SHOULD result in quicker acceleration. video of a spin accelerating as weight is moved to the center: ruclips.net/video/49zi_73pm1Q/видео.htmlsi=lgt1sISpa4rNi-Bb Watch this physics explanation of skating spins: ruclips.net/video/yVf1M0Jjn5Q/видео.htmlsi=wz1omuw-JFZfL0BZ and this: ruclips.net/video/jeB4aAVQMug/видео.htmlsi=Rcw2YpWMpRuEtXTZ
Very true!!! But when doing a long climb at a constant speed, weight is weight. So, I guess you can analyze both separately. However, I know the crws rims are lighter than the rovals, so win win. 😁
@@ChinaCycling true that "weight is weight" as far as lifting the weight up the hill, but the wheels are not going up the hill statically like the frame is. Your legs are still DRIVING the rotating mass of the rear wheel around and around, that is you are using leg power to make the rotating mass go around, so less rotating mass is easier drive around.. Since the CRW' rims are lighter, then it IS a win win but rotating mass matters.
I honor the Hard Work you put in this video. But to say the roval are the best western wheels seems to be very random. Of course they have the most wins in races, because specialized sponsors so many teams with great strong riders like roglic, van Aert, alaphilip… and maybe it’s the tarmac sl8 who wins the races
I see what you did there. Roval CLX II Team version just got released and they weigh 1,360g. So CRWs are still lighter, but it's a big difference. Pity you didn't mention the difference in comfort, I wonder if there is any
Yeah, I mentioned the team edition at the end. For comfort it's hard to measure. My butt Dyno says crw are more comfy, which makes sense if they have less stiffness...
Again, it depends how we're defining best. The synchro's price is crazy, and lack of repairability could disqualify it's from being "the best", but on paper, the performance is up there.
![The Very Best Of Our “Super Bike Vs…” Series [2+ Hour Compilation]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EacOBLOf_i8/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Very Best Of Our “Super Bike Vs…” Series [2+ Hour Compilation]](/img/tr.png)
Top effort. Now you know how much work these wheel tests are 😂
It is interesting how chinese brands have caught up aero-wise without seemingly having to invest as much in aero testing, Specialized are known for having built their own wind tunnel, while other brands leverage ex F1 aero know how from the likes of Simon Smart at drag2zero or specialist like Swissside, but you see less about how the Chinese brands arrive at their rim profiles, hub choices etc. Years ago the aero performance of Chinese wheels seemed hit & miss - I remember there was a Zipp copy that tested well with those in know & then some of the 3 spokes copies worked well, but now it seems more Chinese brands are consistent in their performance. Is it through better computer models, utilising knowledge gained from other brands that tested well - mimicking rim shapes or just the fact that there really is not that much you can do with a carbon wheel that is miles different? Caden use particularly narrow hubs on their tri spoke, Swissside take into account rotational drag with hidden spoke nipples, relatively small hubs and narrow in the modern sense rims, but guessing the advantages are getting smaller from these slight differences.
@@morrisizing To be fair they could just be reverse engineering the wheels from the companies you mentioned and then fine-tuning their designs based on them. Just a theory anyway.
@@morrisizingHe's mentioned previously Craft Works' owner used to work for a top wheel company so the guy surely does know what he's doing
The mystery here is as to what capacity. He needs to know R&D as manufacturing is likely the easiest puzzle to solve being in China
I really appreciate both of your channels.
Some interesting points - Joe could you elaborate. For instance:
do the Chinese 'brands' have access to wind tunnels?
given that most of the manufacturers do not make their own wheels - who is actually making them? Do CRW make rims for anyone else? Given China is kinda closed to the western world (and does what it likes - look at the car industry, little IP or TM respect) - how do we know they don't just hand around their moulds for profiling after hours?
Hi, I'm a big fan of yours. This video made me respect you even more. Keep up the good work and stay truthful!
Thanks! This video was as much a labour of love as anything.
Agreed, probably one of the most transparent creators out there. Admits and even calls attention to his biases, whereas even those who buy the products they review seem not to realize the bias that creates.
Well said. Been a fan for years but this could be Joe’s best work yet…clear, thorough, composed, balanced, trustworthy. 🥇
I genuinely appreciate your time, then sharing the knowledge for our community but most importantly I felt your honesty came shining through when giving kudos to a Wheelset you do not retail..... Great work and gives me confidence that I could buy from you....Thanks
Joe....you are a great revewer,honest and transparent, well done .....A refreshing change from all the bull s--t
I appreciate that!
This a super review - really good work!
Can I suggest another score: the Crit race score. Crits often have a mix of all conditions & knowing whether a wheel would be good under (what for most of us) will probably be a max/extreme use would be amazing!
Wow this is an awesome wheel comparison Joe, thanks so much, enjoyed it a lot and I'll share it too. I don't know if it's of interest but on my channel I've done in-depth looks at Chinese wheels (ICAN, Light Bicycles, Elite). I do it from my perspective as a wheel builder checking trueness, roundness, tension, dish, centering, spoke length, ease of tire installation, etc. So it's different than how you've compared these wheels but it helps me appreciate the work that went into your video. Thanks again. Great job!
Yeah, I'm no wheel builder Jim, I've built 2 wheelsets in my life, so I can really appreciate the knowledge that you guys have.
Great job. For years, Steve Hed, working with Lance, would use clear sealant and caulk the transition between wheel shoulder and tire, till UCI found out and outlawed it.
I'm so happy you made this video. Lots of my friends are riding CLX2 and are sceptical when I tell them how impressed I am with my CRW5060's. They cannot believe that a Chinese made wheelset could possibly be better than their expensive Specialized wheels. Now I can show them the proof👍🏻
roval's are probably chinese wheels too
Brian, there is new version of CRW5060 called CRW5060XXBINGTONTON56. These are like 10 times better than any western shite!🇨🇳♥️🇷🇺♥️🇧🇾👍👍💪💪💪
They are" better" according to the biases and financial interests of the reviewer. Cheers.
They are not better they are just cheaper and lighter. Aerodynamic wise, roval is ahead especially with the team edition that's why they opted for metal spoke vs carbon spoke. Listen to the reviews.
Eastern shit is russia, belarus, China and their komunist too
Best content on bikes!! Thanks a lot! Love the whole lot and I appreciate the transparency and disclaimer. You are the best!!
Ultimate wheel review, amazing job, thank you for that. Love rim profile deep dive.
OMG Joe, you REALLY are a wheel nerd... Thank you for the effort, one of the best & most detailed wheel analyses I have ever seen so far... I was hoping you'd pick the Lun wheel but that's just me. RIM profiles were great!!!
This video shows your passion behind your business, great job.
the end of the video is pretty funny... how many times can I hit the like button?
Thanks from the cycling universe for going where no other wheelset review has been before!
Detailed report. Thank you. Would love to see you test the various ‘wavy wheels’. Loght Bicycle makes a few sizes of rims with side waves. As opposed to the Zipp and Cambridge waves.
Enjoyed this deep dive into wheelsets, thanks.
Just love how transparent you are.
Brilliant effort very honest and very well done!!. Would love more wheel comparisons or a chart based on your opinions!.
Can you do a SEKA spear vs Tavelo?
My guess for the even lateral stiffness in the front wheel on the rovals is that it comes from the bigger P.C.D. on the "flat" side of the spokes. This changes the angle of the spokes so it matches the opposite side. There is probably more going one since the difference in the back wheel is also pretty good without the change in P.C.D.
I have Campa Zonda after stock and never dreamed of Roval. But the facts here made me stay from start to end :) Good work!
Edit: Roval sound check - whole bike shaking, CRW - so smooth
I noticed that imbalance when shooting the freehib sound check, but had already recorded the rest of the video. It was less than ideal....
#16:50 The next generation of prop making: Play-Doh molds! Great solution to a problem without cutting a rim or a frame cross-section, thought you used 2-part silicone putty on first look... you did a really nice wheel comparison!
Thanks Bob! :)
Great review and engineering science applied. Keep up the good work
The comfort you experience with the Rovals compared to the CRW is down to the spokes.
Amazing no one ever talks about spokes in compression. Yes, spokes are tensioned to pull the rim in and hold it in position. But when rolling and hitting holes, the wheel goes into compression for an instant. Carbon is king in tension, but scary in compression.
Great work and appreciate the honesty of your videos.
I'm dreaming for my next bike to make some significant purchases through Panda Podium - waiting to see the Seka Spear on your site.
Cheers
Thin pieces of metal dont do well in compression either. They buckle easily. I doubt either is ever truly experiencing compression, just less tension.
Yes the additional "comfort" is due to the steel spokes but it's because steel spokes are "springier", that is, the steel spokes elongate/stretch more for the same amount of force as compared to carbon spokes. In the case of bicycle wheels, the spokes in the portion of wheel in contact with the ground unload a bit which in turn applies more force to the rest of the spokes.
So steel spokes "absorb" the road roughness & bumps more instead of transmitting it to the rest of the bikes like how carbon fibre spokes do.
Spokes in most wheel designs cannot go into compression because at least one end is usually not fixed, in most wheels, it would be at the nipple.
Hi ! Thanks for your videos. In my opinion the best in the west are Bora Ultra and Corima MCC. Would be interesting to put them head to head.
I started buying those no name brand wheels, giving them a try. Great review!
Go, Joe! Solid review & video, as usual.
Thanks for watching... it was a nerdy one
Great video and very interesting 👍 love the comparison videos 👌
Awesome comparative review and video, Joe. Very much appreciate all the content you produce and provide to the World. -From the guy with the Elves bike at Sea Otter ;-). Cheers!
Much appreciated! I remember you! Thanks for watching
Awesome work Joe, saving up for a set now 👏
You won't be disappointed.
loved the transparency. really well done!
Yes Joe!!! Loving this video!! Happy customer here and I’ve brought the magene powermeter pes and the farsports f1 handlebar, both amazing products. I’m really weighing up buying the Tavelo arow but really looking for a review on the frameset?! 🙏
Great video and I would love to see more wheels being tested
I got my Arow just yesterday... waiting to find time to build it up. It's a bit heavier than I'd like, but thats what happens when you do fancy paint jobs... Full review coming.... soon?
@@ChinaCycling thanks so much, I’ve been emailing you’re college Tom Zeng about the Arow. Toss up between allez sprint, tcr (2022) and the Arow. Leaning towards the arow as I want to use it to race.
Thanks for this. Just bought a set of Roval CLX II Team based on this video. Thanks again.
Remember to share your money with us. 🤣
To be upfront, own a pair of CLX ll, they came on my S Works. I also own a pair of CRW & Hyper 50s. My personal opinion the Roval are by far the better built of the 3 & performance is great. I rate my Hypers 50s a close 2nd as they are solid, fast & haven’t had an issue in 33,000 KM. My CRW aren’t bad but just don’t have the same WOW factor. Just my personal preference 👍
Roval CLX Team Edition is like Apple releasing that green coloured iPhone. Lol 😂
Loved the detailed explanations on everything. Thank you. Btw what is the cassette you’re using on the Rovals?
Carbon Wheelset from Avian are 🔥🔥🔥
They’re cheap like $400 for the 50mm, weighs 1500g for a pair, durable and holds speed well 👌🏼
Used mine for 2 years and no issues on my pair until just a few weeks ago a motorcycle rear ended me. They also have top notch customer support.
This video is great as it is 👍 no need to fret about Roval CLX Team Edition as they are an addition to Spesh’s line. It’s not a replacement to the on-going Roval CLX’s. cheers
Why you make such disappointing comments!? He tried So hard, so why not agree 100% to show sympathy and support?😡
@@jou3708 you failed English in school, mate?
@@ariffau you are truely unpleasant person like all westerners. Full support to Peoples Rupublic of China and its wheelsets!💪🇨🇳♥️🇷🇺🥇🎉🥰
Very interesting and well developed video. Thanks!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great honest review. They are too big for me. Have you tried the CRW Works CS4045 Road Disc Brake Wheelset? Presumably, they are just as fast on the road and not so twitchy on the front?
Yeah, I have those wheels too. Faster on the steeper climbs, and more stable front wheel in crosswinds.
Why don't make the 40-50mm range 25mm internal as well??! My area has crazy winds so more than 40mm front is crazy but I want the 25mm internal
Very comprehensive and engineering. I like it. Sorry that I can't afford either wheels.
What was the purple and black cassette?
Joe loves data 📊 great job mate !
thanks for the interesting observations and testing - between you at 50 something kg and peak torque at 80 somethign we should also be able to get a sense of how wheels handle with a range of overall system weight
Any tip for light gravel/cx set which is realiable for 100 kg heavy guy?
Roval wheelset are occasionally on sale for around $2100.
Dammmmm very detail review of two wheels I own. Very well done
Awesome Video! 😎💯👍
Hi Joe, what do you think about Avian wheels? On paper they look like a steal. I've seen you're selling their handlebars. Are the wheels any good? Thanks for your video's I really enjoy them!
Nice review in comparison..Can you do a review on the new hyper 3 wheelset as well?
We need to test wheels on a test bench puy through load cycles. Weight being saved on spokes is ok if the bonding holds up. Weight at the rim is where you'll notice it.
If I was CRW, I would be working on engineering an update version quick smart.
Also, how about a fully silent freehub with a one-way bearing 😮
I once had a bad experience with a carbon spoke, when it broke in the middle of the journey, the other spoke broke very quickly along the way. and in my country it takes quite a long time to get spare parts.
Steel spoke is the best
This is true. I've never broken a carbon spoke yet though!
Perfect video for a rainy day on the indoor trainer...
Just what I needed to help a current decision...
That is a very impressive wheel collection.
I have a very understanding wife.... (and a big office, lol.)
Great job. I purchased the CRW 5055's from Panda Podium They are impressive. Wondering: Does the wheel finish affect the aero performance at all? The CRW's have a slightly glossy finish while the Roval's have more of a matte finish.
Very good question. I have to imagine it does, and I'd imagine smoother is faster... but... if that were true, all bikes and wheels would surely be glossy. So, maybe the answer i "who knows?"
Great video, thank you!
Been wanting to get a set of the CRW 40/45 but being in the US afraid if I had any issue, it would be a long time before I could get back riding them again. I need something to light up my HEAVY emonda sl7 help. Great video
Go for it! I took the 40/45s to sea otter when I went there. They're decent on the flats too.
I like the chart which shows the power and Cda for each wheel set. Is it possible to add other rim depths? for instance is you had 40mm rims, is there any point in upgrading to 50:60mm? what is the watt saving at 40 kmh?
I think at that price point, i would value warranty really high. But i don't think i could ever justify a purchase a wheelset in that price range. Last wheelset was from yuananbike.
But i love watching these videos and dream a little.
I wish you can do this test with Winspace hyper 23🤗
Thanks for this. I'm on Roval cl50s (gen 1), as I don't do tubeless. Would definitely go for the crw for sure once I commit to a lightweight build (think Aethos integrated, unless CN release something similar)
Sounds like the beginnings of a very light build.
@@ChinaCycling indeed that's the plan to replace my SL7 in a few years. Probs next gen CRW (even wider?!) and hopefully CN comes out with a fully integrated aethos-y looking frameset too!
Appreciate the effort
I am surprised by the relatively low stiffness compared to the Roval that are not any stiffness monster. The cost to pay to be lighter but I measured the Hyper (rim brakes) quite stiffer than the Rovals for a weight sub 1300g (ok with a narrower rim and more prone to stability challenges), shame they didn’t reproduced their performance on this front.
~70n/mm is very high. It's probably 2nd highest of the ~25 wheels i've tested on this jig.
@@ChinaCycling I need to correct, my memory was partially wrong. Using the more std full jigs (used by Tour, LeCycle and the majority of the brands) than those half ones (that do not replicate how a wheel is connected to a frame) the front wheel is indeed very flexible sub 40N/mm and the rear offers a solid 49N/mm (that is considered as a very stiff wheel since they usually average low 40s).
Applying the same ratio to the CRW that would put the rear wheel around 34N/mm that is really really low (few brands engineering teams would put this in the not rideable category)
This may have been asked, are they offered in a rim brake version for us non-disc fans?
good honest job. Love the way you're subjective despite your interests.
Glad that comes across. Was obviously a concern of mine doing this vdieo too.
Any idea whether the aero sensor software is able to work out the changes in weight and rolling resistance (bearing friction difference may be negligible, but perhaps tire width change from internal width difference on the front)?
Edited to add: Hardly matters since the power meter variance likely conceals such small differences, but props for doing the utmost to eliminate the wind variability.
I’d love to see someone compare the Cadex Ultra 50 vs CRW.
Great video.
These tests take forever... when AI can do everything, they'll be a comparison video for everything vs everything.
Will AI do the four 6km loops at 190W for you ?
I'm impressed. I was expecting poorly hidden hinting that the brand you sell and promote is better and that the established brand (a competitor) does not have better charcteristics, but well done on really trying to stay neutral and present a sober, honest review. Way to go to build trust and a good reputation both as a youtuber and retailer.
Thanks for appreciating that. RUclips can be so sour with bias, etc, and now audience also have a bias (expecting everything to be bias, bias.) So I'm trying to change that. :)
@@ChinaCycling Couldn't agree more. Trust is low in society in general these days. I think if you stay on this path of absolute truth and transparency you'll do really well over time.
Video about Best budget/entry carbon chinese wheels please 🙂
top notch job mate
The Roval's maybe also have a heavier hub than the CRWs, more material in the flanges and/or hub body should result in a stiffer hub, hence the reason why the Rovals are stiffer overall even though they have steel spokes. A fraction of an mm deflection at the hub could be amplified to a couple of mm at the rim.
Correct!
Really enjoyed the video! Where would you recommend buying the CRW wheels from if I am residing in China? I found a listing on Taobao but the SRAM XDR model is out of stock while I see it in stock on Panda Podium. Also can I just swap the Shimano freehub body to SRAM like with DT Swiss hubs? Thanks!
Also contemplating 5060vs6575 for my Cervelo S5. I mostly ride on flats 40-45kph and I weigh in at 85kg. But I usually go climb mountains once or twice a week here in Beijing and on occasion we can have some strong winds.
Send us a message or email telling us that you're in China and a China Cycling Fan... we''ll sort you out.
It would be great if you could do a review of the 9Velo Road Disc CC CERAMIC 24H/24H CC55.
Absolutely awesome video and comparison 10/10. I would like to know if you have any video on Magene EXAR DB508 Ultra Wheelset. In my case it’s between the magene db508 or crw 5060. Im a tall guys, 196cm and 90kg. Any suggestions would be highly appreciated, thank you.
I've ridden the magene ultras. Very good wheels. Haven't aero tested them yet tho. The crws are more comfy, but the magenes ain't bad! Check out Patrick Linos channel.
@@ChinaCycling thank you kindly for prompt reply. The area we live in does get quiet windy at times, In terms of cross winds performance which one do you feel is more steady (90kg rider). Thank you
How about the Cadex max 40? Wonder if those integrated hub spoke design vs tranditional design
What about parts availability in the US for the CRW's? How hard is it to get replacement axles/spokes?
We have a few spares dotted around the US of A. But shipping from China is also usually pretty fast.
Ive got the 50mm CLX2 that came stock on my sl8 tarmac sworks. They are ok but my r33 hyper rim brakes feel WAY better and when I need max performance I use my rim brake bike with the lightest rim brake wheels like the r33 or my lightweight meilenstein.
300g difference in those wheels... i''d take lighter wheels every day of the week.
Meilenstein are à nightmare in crosswinds, I sell mine for that
Wouldn’t the CL version been a more relevant (price) test mate?
Hi mate I always like to watch this videos because I think big brands are always overpriced and I buy loads of good stuff from china, I was considering buying my first carbon wheelset but im not sure if I should go with the "easy" route and get Elitewheels like a lot of people or buy Go-Zone wheels that no one talked about but it seems like they are made on a very good factory... Have you had any experience with Go-Zone wheels or products?
Thank you
VERY nice work, Joe. More people became wheel experts😂
Can you ride the CRW wheels if you weigh 90kg?
100kg weight limit for rider + bike. Just inspect your bike regularly if you're near the top end of that. (Which is good advice for every component of your bike.)
great review given your limited testing equipment.
I have to point out that "LIGHTER" s NOT necessarily faster. It depends on weight DISTIBUTION
Watch any figure skater spinning. The skater is the same weight during her/his spin but when the arms are out, the spin is slower, The spin gets tremendously faster as the arms, hence, the weight, is brought into the body (the center of the spin).
Angular momentum = angular velocity X Angular MASS and all that stuff , or Angular VELOCITY = Angular ÷ Object's Mass,
so the Object's MASS (the weight on the outside) gets smaller, the Angular VELOCIYT gets BIGGER, i.e. faster
So IF the Roval has a heavier hub but the RIM (and the distributed spoke weight) weight is significantly less than the CRW, the Roval SHOULD result in quicker acceleration.
video of a spin accelerating as weight is moved to the center:
ruclips.net/video/49zi_73pm1Q/видео.htmlsi=lgt1sISpa4rNi-Bb
Watch this physics explanation of skating spins:
ruclips.net/video/yVf1M0Jjn5Q/видео.htmlsi=wz1omuw-JFZfL0BZ
and this:
ruclips.net/video/jeB4aAVQMug/видео.htmlsi=Rcw2YpWMpRuEtXTZ
Very true!!! But when doing a long climb at a constant speed, weight is weight. So, I guess you can analyze both separately. However, I know the crws rims are lighter than the rovals, so win win. 😁
@@ChinaCycling true that "weight is weight" as far as lifting the weight up the hill, but the wheels are not going up the hill statically like the frame is. Your legs are still DRIVING the rotating mass of the rear wheel around and around, that is you are using leg power to make the rotating mass go around, so less rotating mass is easier drive around..
Since the CRW' rims are lighter, then it IS a win win but rotating mass matters.
Nice test, although 24km really isn't much. Is that per leg, times 4, or total?
24km for the aero test, around 2,500 data points... For kilometers ridden in general testing it's into the thousands.
stupid question but i don't see it mentioned anywhere. pandapodium prices don't include local VAT right?
Most countries we can prepay all duties. Send us a message or email for specifics.
Trust the hooked or hookless rim? I may have missed that important feature.
Both are hooked are fine to use with tubeless or clincher.
Do you happen to have ridden a set of Enve? Keen to know how you compare them to CRW.
I rode an old shallow rim brake set once... but nothing in the last few years. Will have to try....
I honor the Hard Work you put in this video. But to say the roval are the best western wheels seems to be very random. Of course they have the most wins in races, because specialized sponsors so many teams with great strong riders like roglic, van Aert, alaphilip… and maybe it’s the tarmac sl8 who wins the races
I think they're a very good all-round wheel. What do you think would be better? :)
great content!
Les CRW sont les meilleures roues que j'ai eu. 😍
Tu te mets à l'anglais bientôt Bruno? Tu vas pas avoir le choix! Bonjour d'un Breton du Canada. Et que le...(Enfin tu connais la suite)
Merci Bruno!
@@bretonbedouin je vais être obligé 😁 grâce à Google traduction 😂
More comparison videos! Frames and Frame Materials?
Do same with crw vs lùn hyper
I see what you did there. Roval CLX II Team version just got released and they weigh 1,360g. So CRWs are still lighter, but it's a big difference. Pity you didn't mention the difference in comfort, I wonder if there is any
Yeah, I mentioned the team edition at the end. For comfort it's hard to measure. My butt Dyno says crw are more comfy, which makes sense if they have less stiffness...
@@ChinaCycling That's interesting, as the consensus is that carbon spokes make the ride very harsh. If I knew they were comfy I'd be buying them 100%
Thanks a million, Joe
whats about drive 1300gram wheels vs roval ? :)
Great video!
Glad you enjoyed it
Whats your opinion of SCOM Ultra wheels?
Stiffest wheel in my spreadsheet. Built like tank.
@@ChinaCycling Nice. I've been riding them since last spring and am very happy with them.
great job 🙌
Good vid, ENVE ses 4.5?
Hard to find in China... See if anyone wants to swap a pair for a pair of CRW...
Currently the best western wheel is Syncros Capital SL right?
Again, it depends how we're defining best. The synchro's price is crazy, and lack of repairability could disqualify it's from being "the best", but on paper, the performance is up there.