Dunno if you guys gives a shit but if you are bored like me atm then you can watch all of the latest series on InstaFlixxer. I've been watching with my gf for the last couple of weeks :)
so matt forgets to bring on models and his opponent is decent enough to bring then on but when he realises he forgot about the d3 wounds rule he wont let it go...
Even tho the Hive Tyrant is a Character he can be targeted since he has a Wound Characteristic of 10 or more as per the Core Rules. Just a quick heads up. Most big Tyranids can be targets no matter what. :) (My Tyrannofex never gets a chance to test himself..) lol
I actually had to double check myself. It'd have been nice if the Hive Tyrant was sitting right at that special spot if it were "more than 10". But alas.. what can you do.
ictaris "it's not like lives depend on it" OR DO THEY?? ...probably not. Might be some guy executing hostages every time Matt wins a battle, though. You never know.
Daves are tough products to make, as they take a lot more time and care to make sure they come out right. Matts on the other hand are super easy to produce as they don't tend to care as much about appearances. ;)
I know it's a bit weird but Genestealers are not allowed to take adrenal glands, and the Broodlord neither. Also, Lictors aren't allowed to bring toxin sacs. And Matt, your hive Tyrant could've tried to ignore the wounds suffered in the first round of combat due to the Psychic ability.
I love it the whole video. The way you explain the things and the enjoyment... everything from the rules to the enjoyment is very well transmitted through the video. Thank you guys! Hope to see some more battle reps
From the few games I've played so far, I love 8th edition! I love that the game has actually become way more tactical than the last couple editions. Command Points adds in interesting flavours into the game. Also 8th has become rather balanced. I played a 1500 game last night where my Orkz actually held their own against Eldar.... ELDAR!!!!!
I think I read somewhere that Genestealers cannot be equipped with adrenal glands. Since you equipped your guys with AG, I assume that information is incorrect?
So far this has been the most balanced game of 8th Ed I've seen on the channel. I actually enjoyed this game and for a while there it could've gone either way.
50:31 That Haruspex shouldn't have any cover bonus. You only get cover from being completely inside a terrain feature (and some models also need to be 50 % obscured). The only exception I've found are barricades but you have to be within 1" of them to get their cover bonus.
This^^ , many people miss this for they are used to the 7th way and read it that 50% obscured = cover. But the models needs to be IN cover, and if it is not infantry it needs to be IN cover AND 50% obscured.
Sorry, but in the Battlefield Terrain section it gives rules for ruins and says that you do get cover if you are not Infantry and you are 50% obscured.
And you call a rock with a tree on it a ruin? And I disagree even then. The way it's worded it sounds like you need to be wholly within the ruin AND obscured at least 50 %. But that's debatable and may need an FAQ. That a rock with a tree could be considered a ruin needs no FAQ :D
I understand your point of view, but it says "Infantry units that are on a ruin receive the benefit of cover. Other units only receive the benefit of cover if at least 50% is actually obscured". This second part (the 50% obscured) is still talking about models ON a ruin a ruin (that are not infantry). This is they way GW plays it in their games on twitch as well. Also, your way would be really weird, for that means that infantry all 50% obscured behind terrain, would not get cover? So it is very simple. You have to be ON/IN terrain to gain cover. If you are infantry just being on there is enough, if you're something else, you ALSO need to be 50% covered :).
I really love your discussion about how the good stuff and Sgts are better up front. I think that looks better overall and being able to pick who dies is awesome! It really reminds me of 4th and 5th edition in that sense. I also love how intricate the positioning as well as planning assaults and fall backs are. overall I really enjoyed watching this Batrep!!!!
Hey Matt! Just wanted to throw something out there for you so you don't keep getting confused with Instinctive Behaviour. Instinctive Behaviour Unless a unit with this ability is within range of the Synapse ability (see above) of any friendly units, it can only target the nearest visible enemy unit IF it shoots, and IF it charges it can only declare a charge against the nearest visible enemy unit. To me this means that you don't actually have to engage when you're out of synapse if you choose to do so. If I'm wrong, please let me know!
50:03 I haven't played since 6th edition, bit if I recall, a Leman Russ can only fire the hull mounted weapon in an arch of 180 degrees to the front. Have that changed?
Two things concerning pre-game and deployment: 1) You dont choose the deployment map if youre playing matched play missions. You have to choose them randomly. It sais so on the page where the deployment maps are listed. 2) Even if you are leaving Lictors off the board they still count as a "drop" for deployment. The "reserver" special rules always state "when deploying this unit, rather than placing them on the table...". Hope this helps, keep up the good work, cheers!
You're right! It's in a tiny side box in the deployment maps. That is interesting that they didn't make that clearer. And yes I know about the Lictors. In this case it wouldn't have made a difference.
I think you are right, it is pretty obscure. Even Reece and Frankie from FLG who were on the playtesting team only noticed yesterday on stream when chat told them.
Really good batrep. Both fun looking armies. You should do more batreps with this guy. He is fairly strategic, but not cheesy and I like how he set up his heavy weapon teams.
if the IG commander ordered the bullgryn to attack the hive tyrant, would they attack again in the fight phase? 1:27:50 the IG veterans are broken in power points cause they cost like 70 points with 70 points of upgrades (autocannon, 2 plasma, 1 flamer, sergeant plasma pistol power fist and i think meltabombs too)
So, I may be incorrect in this but the wording used in the rules stats during deployment, you SET UP your units one at a time. And for the various "teleport onto the battlefield" abilities (deep strike, etc) they specify you may SET UP the unit in an off map type of setting. So I would read that as you still have to set up all of those units, they just don't have to be on the battle map. So you still set up all of your units, so you don't have an advantage in deciding the map by having more units that deep strike.
@ 1:05:00 when you're cqc with lictors and they kill the squad of guard why were you then able to attack on the elite squad after piling in? I'm trying to pick up the new rules and thought as you have to declare what is attacking what and with which weapons before rolling this would mean you couldn't move into a new squad after wiping the first without a special Rule?
At 59:50, was the third lictor inside synapse range? Otherwise you shouldn't have been able to shoot at the veteran squad because of instinctive behaviour, right?
Why at 29:38 does the broodlord get a cover bonus from overwatch on the charge? he's leaving a ruin and going out into the open or does he just get the bonus because he started in the ruin when overwatch began?
You resolve overwatch just like shooting, before the charge move is made, so since he was in ruins and since he's an Infantry model he gets the cover bonus.
@miniwargaming Matt. Deployment maps are random for matched play. See P216. The player who sets up the last objective marker just gets to roll the dice :) And then choose which side he deploys.
So... This is where all the "6's" were hiding. : ) Great report, and really fun opponent. Loving 8th Ed. Games are so exciting and feel much faster, even during learning games.
So, here's the thing about picking deployment map - the exact wording is that the player who places the last objective marker "determines" the deployment map. And if you go back to the page with all the maps on it, it clearly states that in matched play the deployment is decided by a die roll. So what you're actually getting by placing the last objective marker is the opportunity to make that die roll, and then to reroll using a command point if you don't like the result. It doesn't let you arbitrarily choose each time.
When you bring lictors as reserves ( and any other unit that has similar rules ) , you still need to "deploy" each of them "in hunt" separately during deployment matt. Each dataslate will tell you to "deploy" units that can "deepstrike" in a certain fluff related way. You probably wouldn't have gotten the first turn in this instance for finishing deployment first. ( Not that it really mattered though )
You bet! I didn't realize that, although thankfully it still wouldn't have made a difference here, except to allow me to force him to deploy four units before I even started.
Im wondering about the Imperial Guard because it feels like we had a bunch of nerfs to an already weak army but the entire game is now better for us. Im not sure what to feel.
The Lads Lounge! yeah, tanks have traded off high damage for high survivability instead. I dont like how expensive chimeras are though. That seemed unnecerssary
Check the cost of your heavy weapons teams and scions. Guard will do well from this edition from what we've seen so far, every army has been (thankfully) nerfed
i've got a question about the deployment. The mission description state who can decide the deployment type, but the rules (i've seen) in the Deployment Maps Chapter state: "[...]When playing matched play missions, you must randomly select one of these deployment maps. [...] The mission will typically say which player makes this roll [...]" Does that not mean the player placing the last objective is the one to roll for deployment, not to pick one?
This was a pretty good example of a power level game, some are unbalanced because people aren't always taking the best equipment possible, but these armies handled it pretty well.
Important (critical) rules mistake. You don't get to choose the deployment map, you get to "determine" it. If you read the rulebook page on the different deployment maps, it says that one player rolls a dice to determine the deployment map, and the mission tells you who rolls.
One big rules misunderstanding: The deployment map is determined randomly when playing Matched Play. It's not chosen. Page 216 of the rules "When playing matched play missions, you must randomly select one of these deployment maps." The mission tells you who "determines" the map to use, but they don't pick, they determine it by rolling. That person then can pick his zone on the map.
Got to say im a huge fan of the guard army, looks a lot like world war 2 German Afrika Corps to me, really love the caps and guns on the infantry, nice to see a heavily converted guard force on the channel
Good to see a slightly larger scale batrep with more models on the table! Seems like 8th is going to make a lot of previously unplayable models feasible which is cool
What I spotted: You only get +1 save for being in cover if the WHOLE unit is inside it. I.e. on turn 1 the genestealers would not have been +1 save because some models were outside the ruins. Pile in and consolidate moves can only be done towards the CLOSEST model. So e.g. the Haruspex could not have engaged the heavy weapon teams on turn 1, because the models of the unit that it had just charged were closer. At 1:19:40 it does not seem to me that the Lictor could have charged the Commander only, because by doing so it ended up within 1" from the nearby command squad. Thus, he had to charge both, and he would have received overwatched from both. Edit (end): and NO, I don't really think you can go through other models (neither yours nor enemy), not even if you declare a multi-charge. Or did I miss something in the rules?! Aye, it seems that Matt is making the rules, after all.
"Pile in: You may move each model in the unit by up to 3" -- this move can be in any direction as long as the model ends the move closer to the nearest enemy model." The haruspex started the pile in less than one inch away from the model, and ended the movement in base to base contact. He moved three inches and ended up closer to the model than when he started. That move is perfectly legal. "If the datasheet for a model says it can fly, it can move across models and terrain as if they were not there"
I don't get how these are supposed to explain anything. Pile in: you don't seem to get the NEAREST enemy model part of the rule. If you are referring to the Haruspex, it does not seem that the heavy weapon team was the nearest model at all: the Haruspex was already almost touching an infantry squad model, and THAT apparently was the nearest enemy model already. So, no pile in at all for it, or not towards the hwt that at least. And about the fly rule: moving across does not mean end movement. You can never end movement within 1" of an enemy model unless you charge it (or pile in/consolidate), the rules are very clear about it.
The rule doesn't say he has to move towards the nearest enemy model. It just says he has to "end" the movement closer to the nearest enemy model. He started out 0.9" away from the infantry model and ended up 0" away from the infantry model. That's enough to satisfy the pile in rule. He just managed to also engage the heavy weapons team while doing so. And yes, the flyrant multi charged the two units, and it can fly. So it ignored the infantry squad and ended up within 1" because it was one of the charge targets.
I think pile in works like that IF the enemy is not already in base to base with a model. If it is, then no moving around at all, since literally it is already the closest possible to the nearest model. It seemed to me that this was the case with the Haruspex. About the fly, I am not rewatching the video now, but it seemed to me that at some point the flyrant/genestealers charged within 1" of a squad without charging it, just to avoid its overwatch and only receive that from the character that they wanted to charge.
Matteo Zaccarini well, Idid re-watch those sections and the charges are correct (the lictor charge was correct as well}. Just be sure that you're not the one making up rules before you accuse someone else of doing so. :)
matt your hive tyrant was within 1 inch of the orgyns, and you can only pile into the closest enemy model to your model. so you can not pile into the orgyns because you'd need to be within 1 of the Infantry and be more than 1 away from a orgyn.
miniwargaming so if a unit is a inch and a half away on your left side, and a unit Is a inch away on your right that you changed you can still pile into the unit a inch and a half away on your left but must end to the closest model in that unit? not trying to argue just want to make sure I understand the rule correctly because I may have misread it.
miniwargaming thanks for the clarification! I thought you could only pile in move towards the closest model towards you, period. so if you are within 1 inch of a model you can't go any further away than that 1 inch from the model and are stuck with it. glad to hear that's not the case !
Heavy bolters and autocannons are your best friends. Toss in your commander that does two orders per turn with the re rolls of wounds and to hits makes them better.
It seems that you don't actually get to choose the deployment map, you get to "determine" the deployment map, which then references you to page 216 which says that you roll a dice in matched play to randomly generate the deployment map. You do get to then choose your deployment side though.
The troopers didn't run because they know that if they are going to die they will die with their boots on, so it makes sense that they would keep shooting if their attacks are seemingly inefective.
I am really happy that Tyranids got their long overdue push in 8th. Thanks for covering them early on in your 8th edition coverage! I really like your Batreps, but I hope you switch to points soon. Also, please do bigger games! 50 power level equals roughly 1000 points, which was a small game in 7th already and seems even smaller in 8th...
Regarding deployment and deep strike, I've seen 2 interpretations of this and I wonder which one is the correct. The deep strike rules read "during deployment you can set up [...] instead of placing it on the battlefield". Interpretation 1 is like you did it which caused you to not count the 4 Lictors as actual deployment while going back and forth and thus you ended deploying first and got first turn. Interpretation 2 is "I deploy my unit of 1 Lictor and place it underground. Now it's your turn to deploy." Both interpretations have advantages since interpretation 1 would allow you to start the game more often and interpretation 2 would allow you to 'deploy' all your deep striking models first, giving you much more information about the enemy formation before deploying your on-board units. So which ones of these is the right one? I think interpretation 2, but you are the guys who already have the rule books.
Dude Astra militarum tanks from Cadian regiment they get to shoot 2 times, for example demolisher rolls 2D3 dice for the turret and vanquisher rolls 2 dice instead of 1. This if they didn't move 6 or more inches on that turn
Is the hive tyrant equipped with only a lashwhip and bonesword? A tyrant comes with 2 pairs of monstrous scything talons base, so do you have to replace one pair of talons to get the wings now?
Just a quick point: when selecting a mission you do so with a random roll. This stops people from gaming the system like Matt was talking about in the intro.
matt the hive tyrant stats in the book says that it can take monstrous boneswords and a heavy venom cannon and it can take wings ....but the model only has 4 arm slots so what would you do just green stuff the wings on the back? please let us know
i dont know if you did this or not, but placing a unit in reserves actually counts as "placing a unit" and passes the deployment to your oponent, so if you have a full deep strike list you dont auto get turn 1
I am not sure if it was said or not but the rules say that if you have a -1 to hit. It subtracts from the dice not from the stats. This is important to remember cause the rules also state the subtracting or adding is done after all rerolls and rolling has been done. So if the creature or model says they get to reroll misses and they have a 3+ or what ever BS that means those 3s are not misses until all rerolls have been done. then you subtract 1 from all the dice and then they become misses and can't be rerolled. Sorry just thought I point this out since you guys keep putting it towards the stats instead of the dice rolls
I thought that for the Leman Russ Vanquisher when you rolled the d6 wounds you got to roll 2 and take the highest. They at least did that in Dave's bat rep of blood thirsters vs. tanks.
Matthew Perez then as nerf exterminatus poured in they were forced into a soft state of jello-like ineffectual garbage. oh and they manhandled a tyranid list and dictated the course of this whole game.
can't see if anyone said yet but the guy should have been rolling rapid fire for his lasguns when you charged he only rolled single shots and the 1st rank 2nd rank fire still applies for that round on the squad that had it too.
I'm relatively certain that the Regimental Standard doesn't buff the Commissar's Ld. It only ads to units with the [regiment] keyword, which the Commissar does not have.
Matt, it seems when a die rolls into the channel between the terrain board and the lip of the gaming table, that its always a fail. Its like that edge of the gaming area is cursed! ;-)
brutal game. Mathew if u would play same list, mission and guest what would u done differently? Nids have alot of flavor to them. Wonder what diabolical lists you will come up in the near future. :)
Just a friendly suggestion, Using your command points to reroll some clutch failed wound rolls, especially on big weaponry, is far more helpful early in the game, rather than late. Had the guard player done this, he would have (most likely) stripped that final wound off of your big fella, and saved some of his guys on the charge.
god damn finally guard seeing some lovely sunshine and are actually pulling off some wins, cant wait for the imperial guard faction focus which i hope is soon haha :) straken should be effective now with attacking first off charges, any chance of doing a catachan campaign haha. love the batreps, keep up the good work.
Tried to read all the comments and didn't see anyone ask or post about it, but I do have a question for the Demolisher in particular. In 7th Ed, most Leman turret weapons are Ordinances, where all other weapons will Snap-fire after the Ordinance is fired. In 8th Ed, I noticed he gets -1 to Hit on movement. Does Ordinances not exist anymore where it makes you do -1 to hit on just firing the heavy weapon? If not and they allow you to fire your large cannons now without fear of losing accuracy, that will be very nice.
![Return of the King: The Ride of the Rohirrim [4K]](/img/1.gif)
0:30 'I will make rules' XD, yes, yes you will.
:)
I think I meant "rules mistakes" but yes, well played...
It's his GM side coming out :)
Drukhari: "Welcome to MWG. where we make the rules and the objectives don't matter"
What you did there. I see it.
I take back some of the stuff I have said about Matt laughing at other peoples misfortune. He is just as jovial about his bad luck.
Thanks! I just get into the game so much that I can't help but yell when things swing one way or the other... :)
Dunno if you guys gives a shit but if you are bored like me atm then you can watch all of the latest series on InstaFlixxer. I've been watching with my gf for the last couple of weeks :)
@Marc Tripp Definitely, I've been using instaflixxer for since november myself :)
so matt forgets to bring on models and his opponent is decent enough to bring then on but when he realises he forgot about the d3 wounds rule he wont let it go...
Tyranid faction focus, Chaos faction focus, ork faction focus, but no IG faction focus. IG focus or riot!
Hopefully next week. :)
Haha yeah
I really like how the Heavy Weapon teams have the smaller based model IN the larger base. I'm definitely incorporating that into my armies.
Yea it's really clever
Even tho the Hive Tyrant is a Character he can be targeted since he has a Wound Characteristic of 10 or more as per the Core Rules. Just a quick heads up. Most big Tyranids can be targets no matter what. :) (My Tyrannofex never gets a chance to test himself..) lol
Yup, I caught that in my next game. For some reason I thought it was more than 10 wounds, not 10+
I actually had to double check myself. It'd have been nice if the Hive Tyrant was sitting right at that special spot if it were "more than 10". But alas.. what can you do.
It makes me wonder though if that rule still applies after they go under 10 wounds.
It does sadly. It doesn't care how much they are at. Just how much the data sheet says they start with.
was gonna say that sounds really lame.. "SHOOT THAT GIANT XENO WITH EVERYTHING WE'VE GOT!" "uh, cant do boss, hes like, a person too man." lol =P
Dont mind the mistakes, its not like lifes depend on it. Good job. Loving this weeks program.
Thanks! I'm loving the Tyranids...
miniwargaming a Real shame all that damage on the Aurespex, he would had changed the game
Dave/Matt I'd like to see more Genestealers being able to take the field. Nevertheless, that was an exciting game.
ictaris "it's not like lives depend on it"
OR DO THEY??
...probably not. Might be some guy executing hostages every time Matt wins a battle, though. You never know.
You mean Dave sacrificing to Khorne?
Does Tablewar only sell Matts or do they also sell Daves?
Daves are tough products to make, as they take a lot more time and care to make sure they come out right. Matts on the other hand are super easy to produce as they don't tend to care as much about appearances. ;)
miniwargaming how about quirks and steves?
Ha, wow, that burned both ways. :P
haaaaaaaa i like you
i want the Krisses!
You need MORE THAN 10 to get d6 wounds on smite.
Also, I live to hear Matt scream "Come on!" when the dice screw him over...
You're right! That's a strange way to right the rule.
miniwargaming I know write!?
lol, and I guess that was a strange way for me to right write, write?
genius
Love these 8th ed batreps! Thanks so much for doing this :) really appreciate what you guys do!
"Hi guys, do you have time to talk about our Lord and saviour the hive fleet?"
I know it's a bit weird but Genestealers are not allowed to take adrenal glands, and the Broodlord neither. Also, Lictors aren't allowed to bring toxin sacs. And Matt, your hive Tyrant could've tried to ignore the wounds suffered in the first round of combat due to the Psychic ability.
I love it the whole video. The way you explain the things and the enjoyment... everything from the rules to the enjoyment is very well transmitted through the video. Thank you guys! Hope to see some more battle reps
From the few games I've played so far, I love 8th edition!
I love that the game has actually become way more tactical than the last couple editions. Command Points adds in interesting flavours into the game. Also 8th has become rather balanced. I played a 1500 game last night where my Orkz actually held their own against Eldar.... ELDAR!!!!!
I think I read somewhere that Genestealers cannot be equipped with adrenal glands. Since you equipped your guys with AG, I assume that information is incorrect?
They cannot. Toxic Sacs only.
I was incorrect. I assumed they could, but they can't, which really sucks.
So far this has been the most balanced game of 8th Ed I've seen on the channel. I actually enjoyed this game and for a while there it could've gone either way.
50:31 That Haruspex shouldn't have any cover bonus. You only get cover from being completely inside a terrain feature (and some models also need to be 50 % obscured). The only exception I've found are barricades but you have to be within 1" of them to get their cover bonus.
Exactly. No getting cover for beig half-obscured by intervening scenery and models anymore.
This^^ , many people miss this for they are used to the 7th way and read it that 50% obscured = cover. But the models needs to be IN cover, and if it is not infantry it needs to be IN cover AND 50% obscured.
Sorry, but in the Battlefield Terrain section it gives rules for ruins and says that you do get cover if you are not Infantry and you are 50% obscured.
And you call a rock with a tree on it a ruin? And I disagree even then. The way it's worded it sounds like you need to be wholly within the ruin AND obscured at least 50 %. But that's debatable and may need an FAQ. That a rock with a tree could be considered a ruin needs no FAQ :D
I understand your point of view, but it says "Infantry units that are on a ruin receive the benefit of cover. Other units only receive the benefit of cover if at least 50% is actually obscured". This second part (the 50% obscured) is still talking about models ON a ruin a ruin (that are not infantry).
This is they way GW plays it in their games on twitch as well. Also, your way would be really weird, for that means that infantry all 50% obscured behind terrain, would not get cover?
So it is very simple. You have to be ON/IN terrain to gain cover. If you are infantry just being on there is enough, if you're something else, you ALSO need to be 50% covered :).
I really love your discussion about how the good stuff and Sgts are better up front. I think that looks better overall and being able to pick who dies is awesome! It really reminds me of 4th and 5th edition in that sense. I also love how intricate the positioning as well as planning assaults and fall backs are. overall I really enjoyed watching this Batrep!!!!
Hey Matt! Just wanted to throw something out there for you so you don't keep getting confused with Instinctive Behaviour.
Instinctive Behaviour
Unless a unit with this ability is within range of the Synapse ability (see above) of any friendly units, it can only target the nearest visible enemy unit IF it shoots, and IF it charges it can only declare a charge against the nearest visible enemy unit.
To me this means that you don't actually have to engage when you're out of synapse if you choose to do so. If I'm wrong, please let me know!
Tyranids vs Astra militarum
AND THE WINNER IS....
space marines.... fight me.........
good job getting videos out, you guys are doing great. really appreciate the coverage and I cant wait till bigger games.
Thanks! We're ramping up the size of the games now that we're more familiar with the rules. I'm only playing 1500-2000 point games now.
Do lictors not count towards your deployment numbers?
Yes they do, but I still finished first even with that.
They were in the equivalent of deep strike reserve so no they do not.
Except that they do
50:03 I haven't played since 6th edition, bit if I recall, a Leman Russ can only fire the hull mounted weapon in an arch of 180 degrees to the front. Have that changed?
They got ride of firing arcs altogether.
I believe that the Tyrant has to make one of his attacks with the tail. Could be wrong though. Loving the 8th Ed content.
Two things concerning pre-game and deployment: 1) You dont choose the deployment map if youre playing matched play missions. You have to choose them randomly. It sais so on the page where the deployment maps are listed. 2) Even if you are leaving Lictors off the board they still count as a "drop" for deployment. The "reserver" special rules always state "when deploying this unit, rather than placing them on the table...". Hope this helps, keep up the good work, cheers!
You're right! It's in a tiny side box in the deployment maps. That is interesting that they didn't make that clearer.
And yes I know about the Lictors. In this case it wouldn't have made a difference.
I think you are right, it is pretty obscure. Even Reece and Frankie from FLG who were on the playtesting team only noticed yesterday on stream when chat told them.
Really good batrep. Both fun looking armies. You should do more batreps with this guy. He is fairly strategic, but not cheesy and I like how he set up his heavy weapon teams.
if the IG commander ordered the bullgryn to attack the hive tyrant, would they attack again in the fight phase?
1:27:50 the IG veterans are broken in power points cause they cost like 70 points with 70 points of upgrades (autocannon, 2 plasma, 1 flamer, sergeant plasma pistol power fist and i think meltabombs too)
So, I may be incorrect in this but the wording used in the rules stats during deployment, you SET UP your units one at a time. And for the various "teleport onto the battlefield" abilities (deep strike, etc) they specify you may SET UP the unit in an off map type of setting. So I would read that as you still have to set up all of those units, they just don't have to be on the battle map. So you still set up all of your units, so you don't have an advantage in deciding the map by having more units that deep strike.
@ 1:05:00 when you're cqc with lictors and they kill the squad of guard why were you then able to attack on the elite squad after piling in? I'm trying to pick up the new rules and thought as you have to declare what is attacking what and with which weapons before rolling this would mean you couldn't move into a new squad after wiping the first without a special Rule?
Great Battle report. Jordan was excellent, would like to play him myself.
Looking forward to seeing some using points. Thank you guys keep them coming
At 59:50, was the third lictor inside synapse range? Otherwise you shouldn't have been able to shoot at the veteran squad because of instinctive behaviour, right?
You're right! I gotta remember that one.
Hey at least you don't a chance to sit there and twiddle your claws any more :)
1:21:56 Is tyranid poison different. I know some of the other poison rules I have read said that it doesn't affect vehicles.
It isn't. It just says it does +1 Damage when you roll 6 to wound.
the WYSIWYG genestealers are so great! thankyou for using them. genestealers are one of my favorite tyranid units.
1:24:50 "No orders, cuz your Company Commander is 'kaputt' " :P quite a funny phrase because of the general meaning of kaputt
Why at 29:38 does the broodlord get a cover bonus from overwatch on the charge? he's leaving a ruin and going out into the open or does he just get the bonus because he started in the ruin when overwatch began?
You resolve overwatch just like shooting, before the charge move is made, so since he was in ruins and since he's an Infantry model he gets the cover bonus.
He was in it when he was fired at
36:00 so are you playing matched play with Points or open play with Power levels?
@miniwargaming Matt.
Deployment maps are random for matched play. See P216.
The player who sets up the last objective marker just gets to roll the dice :)
And then choose which side he deploys.
So... This is where all the "6's" were hiding. : )
Great report, and really fun opponent. Loving 8th Ed. Games are so exciting and feel much faster, even during learning games.
It does feel that way, even with the charge and fight phases taking a little longer to sort out.
Also (56:30), any ideas on tokens to identify:
- assault units
- fighting units yet to fight
- fighting units already gone
So far it hasn't been too hard to keep track of, but I could see in more spammy lists it being a problem.
Astra Mili--what? You're in Imperial Guard, son!
Guard for Life!
So, here's the thing about picking deployment map - the exact wording is that the player who places the last objective marker "determines" the deployment map. And if you go back to the page with all the maps on it, it clearly states that in matched play the deployment is decided by a die roll. So what you're actually getting by placing the last objective marker is the opportunity to make that die roll, and then to reroll using a command point if you don't like the result. It doesn't let you arbitrarily choose each time.
When you bring lictors as reserves ( and any other unit that has similar rules ) , you still need to "deploy" each of them "in hunt" separately during deployment matt. Each dataslate will tell you to "deploy" units that can "deepstrike" in a certain fluff related way. You probably wouldn't have gotten the first turn in this instance for finishing deployment first. ( Not that it really mattered though )
You bet! I didn't realize that, although thankfully it still wouldn't have made a difference here, except to allow me to force him to deploy four units before I even started.
Im wondering about the Imperial Guard because it feels like we had a bunch of nerfs to an already weak army but the entire game is now better for us. Im not sure what to feel.
Commissar I hate that the tanks get -bs for moving and their blast weapons Vs infantry are rubbish now
The Lads Lounge! yeah, tanks have traded off high damage for high survivability instead. I dont like how expensive chimeras are though. That seemed unnecerssary
Check the cost of your heavy weapons teams and scions.
Guard will do well from this edition from what we've seen so far, every army has been (thankfully) nerfed
Commissar Don't worry, most transports/vehicles have become fairly expensive, so you aren't the only one feeling that pain :)
The new rules for IG are great for MSU (multiple small units) Im planning on infantry spam only lists. Also the new HW squads with Mortars are superb.
Great batrep! Love me some guard vs Tyranids. The leman russ with the Ryza pattern vanquisher turret looks awesome
i've got a question about the deployment. The mission description state who can decide the deployment type, but the rules (i've seen) in the Deployment Maps Chapter state: "[...]When playing matched play missions, you must randomly select one of these deployment maps. [...] The mission will typically say which player makes this roll [...]" Does that not mean the player placing the last objective is the one to roll for deployment, not to pick one?
Yes, you don't pick but roll for random deployment in matched play. Many people seem to have missed that and think you pick.
Whole unit has to be in cover to gain the cover save (+1). stealers 1st turn.. Keep em coming enjoying these!!
This was a pretty good example of a power level game, some are unbalanced because people aren't always taking the best equipment possible, but these armies handled it pretty well.
Nice report. What is it filmed with? The focus is very good.
It seems Jordan kept forgetting about using command points for re-rolls when he really needed to hit :)
Kristian Olesen it's like a healing potion in D&D. Some folks save them "until they really need it" right up until they die
Important (critical) rules mistake.
You don't get to choose the deployment map, you get to "determine" it. If you read the rulebook page on the different deployment maps, it says that one player rolls a dice to determine the deployment map, and the mission tells you who rolls.
One big rules misunderstanding: The deployment map is determined randomly when playing Matched Play. It's not chosen. Page 216 of the rules "When playing matched play missions, you must randomly select one of these deployment maps." The mission tells you who "determines" the map to use, but they don't pick, they determine it by rolling. That person then can pick his zone on the map.
You are correct. When I read "determine" I thought they meant "determine" and not "randomly figure it out."
This series got me to watch you guys again. When are you going to do the Eldar one?
Got to say im a huge fan of the guard army, looks a lot like world war 2 German Afrika Corps to me, really love the caps and guns on the infantry, nice to see a heavily converted guard force on the channel
Thanks for sharing this report and talking through the rules. Very helpful.
Something to note is that the vanquisher on the leman russ rolls 2 damage dice and discards the lowest i think.
As a Chaos player I really enjoyed this battle hahaha ! Thanks for the vid, guys :)
Where did you get that large tree? That looks awesome.
36:04 What about the save from the Catalyst ?
I dun forgot!
Wait, how did the Haruspex get a cover save at 50:00? He's not in any terrain.
50% obscured
Where did you get those big trees form??!!
Good to see a slightly larger scale batrep with more models on the table! Seems like 8th is going to make a lot of previously unplayable models feasible which is cool
The Vault battle report is 100 Power, or 2000 points. :)
What I spotted:
You only get +1 save for being in cover if the WHOLE unit is inside it. I.e. on turn 1 the genestealers would not have been +1 save because some models were outside the ruins.
Pile in and consolidate moves can only be done towards the CLOSEST model. So e.g. the Haruspex could not have engaged the heavy weapon teams on turn 1, because the models of the unit that it had just charged were closer.
At 1:19:40 it does not seem to me that the Lictor could have charged the Commander only, because by doing so it ended up within 1" from the nearby command squad. Thus, he had to charge both, and he would have received overwatched from both.
Edit (end): and NO, I don't really think you can go through other models (neither yours nor enemy), not even if you declare a multi-charge. Or did I miss something in the rules?!
Aye, it seems that Matt is making the rules, after all.
"Pile in: You may move each model in the unit by up to 3" -- this move can be in any direction as long as the model ends the move closer to the nearest enemy model."
The haruspex started the pile in less than one inch away from the model, and ended the movement in base to base contact. He moved three inches and ended up closer to the model than when he started. That move is perfectly legal.
"If the datasheet for a model says it can fly, it can move across models and terrain as if they were not there"
I don't get how these are supposed to explain anything.
Pile in: you don't seem to get the NEAREST enemy model part of the rule. If you are referring to the Haruspex, it does not seem that the heavy weapon team was the nearest model at all: the Haruspex was already almost touching an infantry squad model, and THAT apparently was the nearest enemy model already. So, no pile in at all for it, or not towards the hwt that at least.
And about the fly rule: moving across does not mean end movement. You can never end movement within 1" of an enemy model unless you charge it (or pile in/consolidate), the rules are very clear about it.
The rule doesn't say he has to move towards the nearest enemy model. It just says he has to "end" the movement closer to the nearest enemy model. He started out 0.9" away from the infantry model and ended up 0" away from the infantry model. That's enough to satisfy the pile in rule. He just managed to also engage the heavy weapons team while doing so.
And yes, the flyrant multi charged the two units, and it can fly. So it ignored the infantry squad and ended up within 1" because it was one of the charge targets.
I think pile in works like that IF the enemy is not already in base to base with a model. If it is, then no moving around at all, since literally it is already the closest possible to the nearest model. It seemed to me that this was the case with the Haruspex.
About the fly, I am not rewatching the video now, but it seemed to me that at some point the flyrant/genestealers charged within 1" of a squad without charging it, just to avoid its overwatch and only receive that from the character that they wanted to charge.
Matteo Zaccarini well, Idid re-watch those sections and the charges are correct (the lictor charge was correct as well}. Just be sure that you're not the one making up rules before you accuse someone else of doing so. :)
"I will make rules." Yes Matt, we are all aware of your life motto.
matt your hive tyrant was within 1 inch of the orgyns, and you can only pile into the closest enemy model to your model. so you can not pile into the orgyns because you'd need to be within 1 of the Infantry and be more than 1 away from a orgyn.
You can pile in to whatever you want, but you must end closer to the closest model.
miniwargaming so if a unit is a inch and a half away on your left side, and a unit Is a inch away on your right that you changed you can still pile into the unit a inch and a half away on your left but must end to the closest model in that unit?
not trying to argue just want to make sure I understand the rule correctly because I may have misread it.
That's right! That's why when you charge you should end 0.9" away so that you can wrap around afterwards.
miniwargaming thanks for the clarification!
I thought you could only pile in move towards the closest model towards you, period. so if you are within 1 inch of a model you can't go any further away than that 1 inch from the model and are stuck with it. glad to hear that's not the case !
Heavy bolters and autocannons are your best friends. Toss in your commander that does two orders per turn with the re rolls of wounds and to hits makes them better.
It seems that you don't actually get to choose the deployment map, you get to "determine" the deployment map, which then references you to page 216 which says that you roll a dice in matched play to randomly generate the deployment map. You do get to then choose your deployment side though.
I've never understood why Warhammer players don't use tokens to mark ongoing effects. You would have remembered those Psychic effects.
Shaun Wilde Yeah it drives me crazy!
Shaun Wilde I do but it's considered cheating
I forget that I've put doom or guide out every game at least once.
How?
The troopers didn't run because they know that if they are going to die they will die with their boots on, so it makes sense that they would keep shooting if their attacks are seemingly inefective.
love the big trees it is like avatar forest where can i get em or how can i make em ?
guy shoulda used his rerolls to finish of that haruspex
came to say this. Its his first game right? Its gona take us all a while to remember to use all these free rerolls :)
true true id be lying if i said ive never forgot beneficial stuff in the middle of a game
Not just that, but his Multimelta should have been rolling 2D6 damage and picking the highest. That could have finished it off easy.
Wait... you get armor saves against monstrous creatures now?
Putting the lictors into the hidden counts as a deploy. You dont get to skip four units just because they are going to 'deep strike'
You're right! I learned that afterwards. In this game it wouldn't have changed anything though.
The charge/fight phase seems really long.
It definitely is more intricate now.
Where did the guard player get those backpacks and heads?
TYRANIDS ARE GOOD, ALL IS WELL IN LIFE
I am really happy that Tyranids got their long overdue push in 8th. Thanks for covering them early on in your 8th edition coverage! I really like your Batreps, but I hope you switch to points soon. Also, please do bigger games! 50 power level equals roughly 1000 points, which was a small game in 7th already and seems even smaller in 8th...
Hey Miniwargaming where can I get some of those big trees that are like 2ft tall?
Great report, had me laughing throughout in enjoyment :)
Thank you for the video especially the post game analysis.
Regarding deployment and deep strike, I've seen 2 interpretations of this and I wonder which one is the correct. The deep strike rules read "during deployment you can set up [...] instead of placing it on the battlefield".
Interpretation 1 is like you did it which caused you to not count the 4 Lictors as actual deployment while going back and forth and thus you ended deploying first and got first turn.
Interpretation 2 is "I deploy my unit of 1 Lictor and place it underground. Now it's your turn to deploy."
Both interpretations have advantages since interpretation 1 would allow you to start the game more often and interpretation 2 would allow you to 'deploy' all your deep striking models first, giving you much more information about the enemy formation before deploying your on-board units.
So which ones of these is the right one? I think interpretation 2, but you are the guys who already have the rule books.
Dude Astra militarum tanks from Cadian regiment they get to shoot 2 times, for example demolisher rolls 2D3 dice for the turret and vanquisher rolls 2 dice instead of 1.
This if they didn't move 6 or more inches on that turn
Great video as always! Just saw that the hive tyrant took two damage to drop it to 7 wounds when you could have rolled for catalyst (feel no pain).
Is the hive tyrant equipped with only a lashwhip and bonesword? A tyrant comes with 2 pairs of monstrous scything talons base, so do you have to replace one pair of talons to get the wings now?
The model doesn't show it, but he has Scything Talons as well.
Little tip, don't castle. Also, using SP to reroll number of shots or number of damage is generally better than rerolling 1 to hit roll.
Just a quick point: when selecting a mission you do so with a random roll. This stops people from gaming the system like Matt was talking about in the intro.
matt the hive tyrant stats in the book says that it can take monstrous boneswords and a heavy venom cannon and it can take wings ....but the model only has 4 arm slots so what would you do just green stuff the wings on the back? please let us know
i dont know if you did this or not, but placing a unit in reserves actually counts as "placing a unit" and passes the deployment to your oponent, so if you have a full deep strike list you dont auto get turn 1
Awesome batrep! Love to see Imperial Guard winning.
I am not sure if it was said or not but the rules say that if you have a -1 to hit. It subtracts from the dice not from the stats. This is important to remember cause the rules also state the subtracting or adding is done after all rerolls and rolling has been done. So if the creature or model says they get to reroll misses and they have a 3+ or what ever BS that means those 3s are not misses until all rerolls have been done. then you subtract 1 from all the dice and then they become misses and can't be rerolled. Sorry just thought I point this out since you guys keep putting it towards the stats instead of the dice rolls
I thought that for the Leman Russ Vanquisher when you rolled the d6 wounds you got to roll 2 and take the highest. They at least did that in Dave's bat rep of blood thirsters vs. tanks.
Ooooo my main two current armies going at it! This should be awesome =)
Matthew Perez no, it won't be. AM got smacked with a Nerf bat, shot with a Nerf gun, and obliterated by Nerf artillery.
Nathaniel Smith Then stepped on by a nerf-titan.
Matthew Perez then as nerf exterminatus poured in they were forced into a soft state of jello-like ineffectual garbage.
oh and they manhandled a tyranid list and dictated the course of this whole game.
Where did he get those different astra militarum models and wepons? the bullgryns especially.
MCMoonScopes I think some of them were Fantasy Ogres. Not 100% though.
can't see if anyone said yet but the guy should have been rolling rapid fire for his lasguns when you charged he only rolled single shots and the 1st rank 2nd rank fire still applies for that round on the squad that had it too.
also seeing Tyranids lately is really pushing me to get an army of them lol, close combat is really making a come back in this edition
I'm relatively certain that the Regimental Standard doesn't buff the Commissar's Ld. It only ads to units with the [regiment] keyword, which the Commissar does not have.
That definitely makes sense. :)
Matt, it seems when a die rolls into the channel between the terrain board and the lip of the gaming table, that its always a fail. Its like that edge of the gaming area is cursed! ;-)
brutal game. Mathew if u would play same list, mission and guest what would u done differently? Nids have alot of flavor to them. Wonder what diabolical lists you will come up in the near future. :)
Just a friendly suggestion, Using your command points to reroll some clutch failed wound rolls, especially on big weaponry, is far more helpful early in the game, rather than late. Had the guard player done this, he would have (most likely) stripped that final wound off of your big fella, and saved some of his guys on the charge.
Hey guys! By any chance anyone know the paint scheme that the guard player used? I'm really digging it
Awsome review guys loved the game. Keep up the great work
god damn finally guard seeing some lovely sunshine and are actually pulling off some wins, cant wait for the imperial guard faction focus which i hope is soon haha :) straken should be effective now with attacking first off charges, any chance of doing a catachan campaign haha. love the batreps, keep up the good work.
Tried to read all the comments and didn't see anyone ask or post about it, but I do have a question for the Demolisher in particular. In 7th Ed, most Leman turret weapons are Ordinances, where all other weapons will Snap-fire after the Ordinance is fired. In 8th Ed, I noticed he gets -1 to Hit on movement. Does Ordinances not exist anymore where it makes you do -1 to hit on just firing the heavy weapon? If not and they allow you to fire your large cannons now without fear of losing accuracy, that will be very nice.
Ordnance does not exist anymore.
All right, so no modifiers to that. That is very good. Helps out very much. Might see Leman Russ's be more deadly now in force.