Analysing Operator Gains at Max Investment | Arknights
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- Опубликовано: 26 июл 2024
- M9? Potential 6? Tier 3 Module? Level 90? Which are the operators best suited to receive these upgrades?
Discord: / discord
Tiered Module Details: / module_details_lingeri...
SPECTER ALTER:
Forgot to mention her, so I'll do it here; her module's arts damage amp makes her an incredibly good choice in low-step due to the automatic swapping nature, as can be demonstrated in H7-4's 4step clear. The SP-on-swap is great QoL that significantly boosts the viability of her S2, which is always nice to have. Overall though, it just bumps her from non-moody blues tier to where Ch'en and Mosti are sitting right now, which is the "new" moody blues tier I guess? So, approximately around Eunectes levels of power post-T3 module, which is very strong.
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I'd love feedback on use of images to support audio & suggestions on potentially better formats. I have a lot of scripts and video ideas ready, some even recorded, but what mainly keeps me back is the amount of time spent editing and rendering. This video took me 3-4 hours for instance, and I think I'll be able to reach a wider audience with a better upload schedule especially if there's a more interactive way to maintain audience retention without selling my soul to Davinci Resolve.
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I still have the IS#2 discord giveaway thing going on so please join thanks I want to revive whatever community I have left D:
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Go subscribe to WGT lol: / @bluewgt
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Timestamps:
00:00 Start
00:41 M9s
05:53 Level 90s
09:15 Potential 6s
11:41 Tiered Modules 
Игры
Here's some updates from 4 months into the future:
- Horn, Skalter moved to S-tier for M9
- Gav and Sexas is M6
- Sexas potentials are A-tier
- Spalter ModLv3 moved to S-tier for Modules
Woah you came back to do a quick update. Nice. Id like to add that your subscriber count is not representative of your content. You make some of the best stuff out there. It never feels forced when you say things like they are.
Final note- you can’t say don’t bring Chen because alter. Now it’s don’t bring chen because you can bring someone else.
For the S-tier Spalter Mod LV3 are you reffering to modue X or Y? and what rank would the other module be?
Is M9 really great for Skalter? Other than JT8-3 I don't see S1 being used over Skill 2.
Where in A tier would Sexas's Potentials be? Leaning to the left or the right?
Thoughts on Ethan Module 3 and where it would rank in your module list.
@@asheqabeer1798 In case you are still looking for an answer, for Spalter, module X lvl 3 is what you need if you plant to use her S2M3. But, if you want to use her S3M3, then you need module Y with Gladiia on your team for best benefit. In other words, module Y if you are more of a abyssal hunter knights type player.
Sexas????
I would personaly place phantom in the S tier as a lvl90 impact, due to how his S2 scale.
If we take the difference betwin lvl 80 and 90 it's 14 atk, these 14 attacks becomes 294 damages split on the 10 first hit (deacreasing as it goes), and as his job is to take down priority target, it's realy important for him to take them down as quickly as possible.
Benefiting so much from each ATK point makes it easier to go from "barely being able to kill a target">"killing it"
not having these damages can result in him having to get more hits in, wich impact his ability to be redeployed on another target, or in worst case scenario result in him dying befor the final hit.
And lets not forget is clone also benefit from more stats, wich makes it even more impactfull.
For me, the best thing about Sailach is she can directly heal character that can't be healed such as Mudrock.
loves how the explanation goes especially with those graphs. Keep on making the amazing vids. thank you.
Even though she's not meta, I would still put Ch'en in the Questionable tier for M9ing since all of her skills gain a lot from M3, and she has two pretty good skills + one which is going to become much better when her module upgrade is released. At least, I think she and Pallas are in roughly the same spot.
I was leaning on that too, but chalter existing made me hesitant - in hindsight, might've been better to evaluate individual performance in a vacuum only for things like this.
@@Drails I agree with considering operators in a vacuum. It's easier to do this way because it's very easy for an account to own Chen and not Chalter.
For any other operator comparison it is the same. Saria versus Nearl? Saria is straight up better than Nearl and that makes Nearl look worse. But what if I don't own Saria? Then Nearl is worth investing into because in a vacuum she actually is a really good operator.
@@disintegratedstrategist For the second point, Saria is a significant reason why people don't rate Nearl as highly tbh. I personally don't agree with it, since I feel like Saria is fairly overrated, but relevance in context of replacements is still an integral part of operator discussions as a whole.
@@Drails i'm late but i have ch'alter and an m9 ch'en and i personally use ch'en more often than i use her alter because she's just so flexible by comparison. i find her s1 is good for low pressure lane holding and the SP reduction at m3 makes a huge difference in her survivability. it's very good for IS with the correct relics. she also pairs well with thorns to open and her module upgrades will improve that a lot as well as make her s1 very spammable. i don't think she belongs in the maybe category because her s1 is pretty niche (would be much better if it held charges but that's probably too op for an s1), but she is definitely worth the m6 for endgame players imo
@@Drails Honestly Chalter didnt kill OG Chen, Irene did. They do basically the same thing, except Irene does it WAY better. The AOE Levitate CC gives a lot of utility and her passives make her ignore 50% of the enemies' Armor when they are Levitated. OG Chen has the upperhand in skill uptime with her Modules but Irene's damage is a whole new league
0:47 Surtr is a viable M9 contender.
Surtr with S1 & S2 can be 6* Astesia where Surtr can be a on-field dps with low sp cost.
although I agree that the power spike of S3 is just absurd.
Yeah, looking at it objectively then S1 and S2 can be strong compared to other operators, but they pale so much in comparison to S3 it's funny.
its not that i dont want to use s1 or s2 surtr, its just that s3 is wayyyyyyyyyyyy too good
IMHO s2 has better DPS than s1 even against single target. Once I've tried both skill because i need a strong arts damage user and s3 wasn't fit the bill because it has to be a constant, long lasting one.
When it was against a boss, the s1 fell short, effectively lost my run. I thought that s1 should be better for a single target, and i was wrong.
Just s1 is obviously for an afk run.
The analogy is kind of Blue Poison's skill. Where her s2 is actually the best DPS out of two, but s1 is suited for AFK strats.
So i wouldn't say m9, rather 2 good skills 1 lesser skill. S1 isn't that bad, but the power spike from s1 to s2 is great, just like how both compared to her s3.
Thank you for the guide, I appreciate the explanations.
[Rhetorically speaking, as Drails continually points out, "play your way"]
All I can say in my defence (with 30x E2L90 as a reasonably casual player) is that I am a Doctor who wants to see his operators become the best they can be in their nominated roles. Sure it may not be efficient but efficiency isn't why I do it.
I've learnt to be very politically neutral on this platform over several mistakes made in the past XD
@@Drails Yes. Telling someones waifu is trash is a serious crime.
Thank you for the video! I'm not sure if you have been making a better effort at annunciating your script or you have a better mic but I feel I can hear you better in this video compared to some of your older ones.
As always, good work~
You have always been the youtuber I visit for cold, meta-only analysis of an operator's strength, and this video is proof of that. Great content, same as always.
With that in mind, I wanted to ask - With the moody blues buffed out of the gutter, what are your thoughts on the current weakest 6-stars in the game?
Do you think that there are certain operators that are notably weaker in comparison to other 6-stars? Or is the power level more "constant" now - less extremely bad operators, and most "average" 6-stars stay around the same level of strength?
Looking at your videos, I'd think of Siege, Mizuki or guard Ch'en as possible candidates. Is Ebenholz that weak, too? No 777ucky showcase on him yet, kekw
I think Eben might contend with the spot of weakest 6* now, together with Miz/Siege. Mizuki S2 is pretty nice to use in IS2 (personal bias LOL) while Siege at least sees some use in lowstep (S2) and has some potential in helidrop stunlock w/ S3.
However, I said "contend" bc imo, Hoshi is the weakest by far. No utility, smol damage, generally a very 2019-esque operator that holds up really poorly especially given defense's flat mitigatory nature.
@@Drails How would you fix Hoshi and Siege if you could completely rework their skills, stats and talents? I'd love to see you do an in depth video dreaming I mean theorizing about what would make certain operators actually viable units that you don't automatically overlook due to existing alternatives (not even counting the super meta operators just generally better alternatives) like those two, the DPS ambushers, Abjurers, brawlers etc.
Late reply, but kit design is often theoretic with operator theme and I'm not / never have been a lore person. It'll be incredibly difficult to adjust an operator's kit whilst maintaining the same "feel" that it'll almost always be better to just create new units altogether, and the existing cases of modules significantly changing operators has worked because they lean heavily to other successes, such as Skadi ==> Phantom and Mostima ==> Suzuran.
Easy way to bump Siege up is giving her HP regen and some other sort of combat buff (hitting one enemy with S2 deals %inc atk?) but I'm not very in favour of just shoving weaker units under the pseudolaneholder banner and calling it a day.
Hoshi's issues are to do with game design and how bricks have no use except in extreme statchecks, which HG cannot make the standard for obvious reasons. Many would say her kit's an issue - to which I wouldn't disagree, but I'm moreso on the crowd of game design issue.
@@Drails Another idea to fix hoshiguma: Adjust her dmg/skills so the "DPS" tag in her name actually has meaning.
@@cheese50 When Hoshi released the game had overall way weaker defensive stats, because of the obvious progressive ramp up in difficulty due to the early stage of the game's life.
Back then, Hoshi's damage was indeed pretty high, she could even shred through tank units because, up to something like chapter 6 (as well as the events from that time period), enemies had really weak defensive stats. Squads weren't even fully E2 yet, and units were less specialized.
She's just suffered the passing of time with her pure stat stick nature.
Very informative video. I do feel like Skalter belongs in low A tier for lv 90 candidates though. Despite the low stat gains between lvl 30 and 90 given how she is almost always paired with those fast attack/low attack stat characters like Exu/Ash where 30 attack can actually make a considerable difference in some cases.
Just a thought.
fair, skalter is often 3rd buff prio for exu/ash though with the first being warfa and the second a def debuffer like ely/sham, so it feels sorta disingenuous to put her in the same category as say, thorns, especially when her s3 isn't even the focal point
I will say I have a few thoughts on the M3/6/9 choices. Saga has 2 good skills. S2 is great for early trash waves and for huge trash waves, which might come back if the R6 siege type enemies appear more again. Her S3 then is a very good damage skill. While there's not that much reason to regularly use her because flagpipe, I've found her one of the best picks for super early pressure maps. Suzuran I also feel has 2 good skills. Obvously S3 for hard content, but S2 is very useful for easier general content, afk strats, continuous stalling, etc. Dusk isn't that good in general, but all 3 of her skills are quite solid if you do use her. Her S1 provides great consistent arts aoe damage. Her S2 is great for a burst of true aoe, and her S3 is very unique stalling. Someone already mentioned Chen, but her skills are all interesting in different ways. S3 at this point is her mainstay as a melee buff stack nuker. S2 isn't that good anymore unless they bring back liskarm meme maps. But S1 now has some stunlock potential vs certain slow attacking enemies thanks to her module. Sure, Chalter excludes her, and Exusiai already covers the buff stack nuker role better, but there will be maps where you need ground ops instead of high ground ops and I've found use out of her on occasional CC and challenge maps and such for that reason. Surtr's other skills are both pretty strong. They aren't close to her S3, but for stuff like the roguelike event, having her able to do multiple roles is still a good value.
Great video. I liked how you split them up into different sections and went in depth to most of the really strong operators. Currently I’m having issues M3’ing my characters because I don’t know which skill would give me an immediate boost and there’s no guide that walks through a tier list of potential M3’s. Is there any way you could do a short video or a tier list on your discord listing the strongest M3’s? similar to the m9’s in the video.
I hope saileach’s module upgrade will buff her 2nd talent to work like elysium. -2 dp for all operators when she’s deployed instead of just the next operator after her lol. I have her at m9 pot6 lvl 69. I just hope she gets a nice module and module upgrade bc i love her
I have an m6 skalter with skill 1 and skill 3. skill 2 is generally for gen content where the masteries are not needed to beat it. now note I do not have a NG so when it comes to big arts DPS I either have to borrow one or tank it with skalter s1so it has more value on my account I feel so that might just be bias towards the skill.
edit also wanted to say as someone who got pot six texas and uses her a lot it makes a decently big difference. granted it is nowhere near Elysium level. but when she is used as a peduo red in high risk the 10 seconds of lower redeployment time is relevant
Fantastic information.
Surprised to see Skalter put in B for 90, when personally if I brought any op to 90 it'd probably be her for dispersing the value, I guess you can argue leveling everyone in her range to 90 is worth more than making her 90 though, value of 90 vs efficiency of 90. Especially interesting since efficiency was essentially your logic for Ling
*edit* on the other hand I think Mostima B pot might be a bit overly generous, because nearly all enemies actually cap their minimum speed with the 90% anyways, it's only the fastest moving enemies that are at all differently affected by 99% vs 90%. Seems like most people that've been hyping her potential up a ton don't realize the minimum speed, not sure if you're overlooking this fact or simply valuing that edge case, which yeah, fastest enemies have some merit.. but that's usually the enemies that get one tapped anyways, I'd personally put her in high C.
For the first point on Skalt - I think I brought this up in another comment - she has inherently worse atk/level than other units because of low base atk and she's only giving a fraction of that away, and that's not even considering the def/hp. Let's say you have Thorns, Eyja, Blaze being buffed by Skalt S2, in that scenario I'll just keep Skalt at like Lv60 thereabouts and bring Thorns to Lv90 because the individual gains are going to more or less match the collective benefit.
For Mosti, I do agree. She should've been high C.
@@Drails Maybe for S2, but for S3, Skalter gives away 1.1 * 1.06 times her raw attack, on top of a 0.7 to 1.4 multiplier for true damage/s. On top of this, she frequently gets buffed by Warfarin, making the raw attack stat from level 90 even more important. If Exia is S tier and doesn't see use without a Skalter buffing her, Skalter should be at least A tier if not S.
@@ppltn Framing it that way kind of ignores the fact that most Exu buff army setups involve Warfa and Ely, with Skalter being tied with Shamare/Suzuran as the 3rd option. Buffing her w/ Warf is only viable when Skalter's own atk * 1.1 is higher than the target's atk, which is incredibly rare.
Sure, it's good, but she's only a component of Exusiai while the rest in a tier above her benefit more directly from it - especially when most people are using her for S3.
One can make the claim either way I suppose, at the end of the day the lines between tierlists are all abstract generalistions.
@@Drails Yeah, I think you're right. I thought I had only seen Exia used with both, but looking back at CC5 buff army, Warfarin buffs Skalter for the kill on Hammer bro, but for Archer bro, as you said, just Warfarin is used.
She does have uses outside of Exia of course, but I agree that there her level 90 is nowhere near as valuable.
I also have Skalter E2 90... for a very specific reason: I got lucky pulling 6 pots trying to get Kal'tsit dupes for waifu reasons. Skalter is now M8 (waiting on a good farm for Polymer Preps for her and Ling M9/E290/P6). I opted to build around her because many of my favorite operator mechanics scale well with flat ATK buffs (God Hand Passenger, albeit a bit less important with his module, Archetto's very controllable multihits, Goldenglow's upcoming global death satellites) and building around both helidrops and a strong core of doomstacked operators was always one of my preferred playstyles from the early days of AK anyway. Being able to use one or two slots tops for healing (Skalter+Ptilo or Warf or Suzu, usually) and take summoners who can receive healing from the aura, and often just building around maximizing her "diamond of power" with a cluster of deadly operators, is fun. Plus it made Mountain almost able to tank the Lazurites in that one late NL bonus stage for a unreasonably long time, which was really funny, but impressive considering the poor guy was sitting in a box at 0 DEF for almost a full minute.
It's not for everyone, but if you build around her as a core operator and/or like using summons and atk scale/ASPD based units, she's pretty high priority.
I was aiming to min-max that blue lass even before you told me to. Because of the dragons, obviously...
I thought Skalter would benefit well from L90 and move up to A due to how her healing and Inspiration relies a lot on her ATK (and DEF for S2).
Informative. Mostima perfection is my goal.
(._.") tbh I start considering m9 schwarz for crazy damage amp in IS mode with chocolate pasta, spinach, etc.
I want to taste that crazy damage around 15k/skill procs again
The Blue woman is eating all of my resources...
Thanks for the guide, it really helped decide to not lvl up my operators to 90 xD. I might be wrong but I think skalter pot's should be A. I heard somewhere that her potentials are more or less +60 lvls and for a buffer that's a lot, well it's not like anyone can do it so i guess it doesn't matter
More or less correct, but I'm of the opinion that most of the time skalter will only be buffing 2 relevant dps units and in those scenarios, their own levels/pots will contribute more than skalter's 60% from an already low base.
you can only take 12 units onto a stage if someone is going to borrow a unit. theyd rather a chenalter s3m3 e2 90 over anything less.
but functionally aside for hp you really dont notice much difference between e2 50 and e2 90
@@Drails well it also depends on who we are buffing, I often use s3 on skalter with exu or ash because I like seeing stuff being shredded to pieces so I might be very biased here xD but I think you're right generally it won't be that much of an improvement on s2.
My Max Level M9 Operator are Skadi (Guard)P5 and Skalter P3 only. Idk, i feel obsessed when it comes to Skadi
For Mostima's potentials it should be noted that there is a cap to how much you can slow an enemy which manifests in the form of a minimum speed for enemies. So her 90 and 99% are going to be the same on most enemies. Exceptions might include Sarkaz Lancers.
Movespeed floor is 0.1 (ie 1 tile per 20s). Take the average dog for example, 1.9 movespeed - module still makes it about half as slow, I'd take that as a win especially given how there are a noninsigificant amount of enemies in that movespeed range.
@@Drails
Don't forget that she's also pushing them back, so they both have to have a high move speed and a high weight for it to have a meaningful difference in the outcome of a stage.
Very true
Somebody made a graph about this (imgur /a/5NX6FO9) Basically very few enemies in gen. content are above the 1.0 MS threshold that makes a difference, but in CC where enemies can go up to 2.0/3.0 MS it can matter much more.
I think youtube deleted my first comment cause it had a link
@@BlueWGT
That's a shame because I like graphs. Any Google keyword combination that would find it?
Lvl 90, M9 Hellagur as well as working on maxPOTing him (currently at POT3) because he's best boy. Planning to do the same with Mr. Lee.
nice seeing a fellow hellagur enjoyer out there
A hellagur and Lee enjoyer? Finally one of my kind! Still wish I had helladaddy tho... 😔
Buuuut I'm very ready for Lee and M6 him! (not sure about S1)
Lmao my Elysium became max pot when I rolled over 200 pulls for W's banner.
I ended up building him and M6ed him and yeah, he's great so I guess that was a blessing in disguise.
Play the game from the start, the only M9 I have is Saria,Weedy and Magallan,most operator is either M6/M3,I don’t even M9 Saileach,while her S2 is useable I never encounter a problem when I feel like need to use it,maybe in future CC
Man, this is the first time when the modules have become actually good for once, but why th they must be still complete dog$h*t towards the rest of the operators.
+20% DEF on Tachanka (relatively squashy operator that not only never needed it, but also wouldn't become tanky even if they have him +100% def).
+25 ASPD to Reed whenever she receives Arts dmg without actually improving her survivability against arts dmg (which btw isn't that great when facing more than 1 weaker enemies or just one stronger enemy)
And the worst part of all this is that they are (final) tier upgrades which are super expensive (T2+T3 arguably cost more than E2), you would literally go bankrupt for something that's way worse than absolutely nothing, just WTF.
The new gamemode is free to enter, same as Integrated Strategies or Contingency Contract. That effectively means that the module data blocks and bars are given out for free, spread out over time.
This also means that a tier 3 module will always technically cost less sanity than a third mastery level for the same operator rarity. They cost LMD instead of skill books, which are arguably more problematic to farm, too. Modules cost less materials overall - More T5 materials, but absolutely no T4 materials and below.
Most of their cost is focused on the last module tier, which isn't always necessary. This is just something to be optimistic about, the modules aren't all that expensive.
It's truly unfortunate that Tachanka's and Reed's modules weren't any good, however. We are just left to wait for a second batch to arrive for them.
Well, certainly some operators doesn't get the justice by the modules. But, one thing for sure, that module isn't ""Super" necessary like an E2. Of course, it sucks for someone who wants to play with their favorite characters.
@@adamantiux9750 i was speaking LMD wise.
I am in love with IS2 so much that I play it repeatedly every day. Hated it when it first came around but I love it this time. No idea why. With that said, does min maxing still make the same sense for operators if you mainly enjoy AK for IS2? CC feels like a three week dead week for me since I am a risk 18 and done kind of player. I auto events and normal stages when needed also.
It feels like IS changes so many operators fundamentally with its collectibles negating the need for level 90s, M3-9, etc.
Of course I say that, but my roster is a mess. LOL quite a few don't lvl 90 ops are 90 and some ops havent even been touched.
i am in dire need of a three week dead week😂 i just came back two months ago and need sanity to build up operators
CC when 😭
My first m6 Conviction, and my first m9 is Saileach >.
Both Gladiia and Weedy are good M9s their 3 skills have viable niches
Agree. Plus, everyone need at least one good pusher and puller
Personally I stop at E2 level 70. Because it really starts to eat up your resources fast after this point and I have bunch of operators that I want to E2.
i kinda find only seeing icons when you explain them pretty confusing for quite a while, the arrow point to SA but where are his skills were my thoughts
s2 is the best skill for Silverash
change my mind
cool vid bro
Hey man, just want to say that I think you are the best content creator for min-maxing in Arknights global version. This community(gacha) does not have the kindest reactions when you insert efficiency into their waifu games. I can't count the number of times a person asked for exclusive gameplay advice and have the top-voted reply be "just pick your waifu". Anyways, I'm looking forward to more of your content!
M9 your fav to establish doctorate dominance
Funnily enough, Potentials are the hardest thing to complete out of everything.
Which skills are the best to master on saga and specter alter? I feel like I prefer s2 on both, while their s3s seem a little weird to me (not that much for saga s3 though).
I prefer S3 Saga, S2 Specalter. S2 Saga's a more selfish skill which, although not bad, is something you want on a DPS unit as opposed to a VG. If you want her to lean more towards being a vanguard (ie her intended role), then S3 is the way to go.
Tbh, haven't used Specalter all that much yet but I do think having a slightly stronger ST Spect S2 is slightly better than another generic DPS skill.
I literally M9d Hellagur, Mountain, Rosmontis and Saria and tbh I use all 3 of their skills constantly.
Is it the best investment? No. I'm not gonna pretend it is.
Do I care that it isn't? No. I'm a veteran, there's nothing better to use my materials on and they are amongst my favorites.
It has helped me gain further appreciation for the characters and I can more reliably use them in funny, niche situations.
I M9, 90, and of course module’d my Pallas. No potentials though cause that’s way too expensive
Dose the new aoe siniper module changes stuff now?
Saria's lvl 3 module is weird, it kinda sounds like it will only benefit Ptilopsis since Silence already has a short downtime for her drone and Ifrit already gives herself SP.
Yeah, but if you think about it - how many times will Saria even heal Ptilopsis?XD
@@Drails My thoughts exactly.
wouldnt it work on herself to make her spam S1 and S2 faster?
@@asheqabeer1798 when Saria cast both skills there's a small window when she is SP locked, so no.
I thought Saga would be really high on the potentials thing, why is she not
I just can't ever think of going for pots in banners. If they had truly been necessary I woulda probably stopped playing xD.
Also I really don't like the "because so and so character" exists attitude because quite frankly, what about us new players? xD Do you think i'll save 300 wishes for summer banner? Even paying like I have, I feel a bit wary about doing that.
Also god damn man "completely useless" is a harsh thing to throw around when some of these completely useless characters have helped my account be strong in the early goings while i'm stuck with maybe a tenth of the over all roster of 6 stars.
everything here is in the context of framing - it's a video clearly targeted towards older, more veteran players who are considering heavy investment into characters as a result of abundant resources or the like - to which I make clear at the beginning
of course the assumptions made in a general context wouldn't be the most healthy (i.e. every player has most units, certain units are worthless), but that's clearly not the target scope of the video
99.99% of the time I see people M9/90/max pot their ops is because of husbando/waifu/conviction reasons, so I’m glad to see a breakdown based more on gameplay
Im confused, isnt Bagpipe Mod3 just give herself more SP? Considering that Baggie isnt frequently deployed and shes more of a just existing operator. Wouldnt be better have a disclaimer that her module 3 is more viable at a CC than in general content?
I deploy mine so little, that I wouldnt even feel the difference.
Rosa could be seen as having 3 good skills if you want to min max her utility. Both s2 and s3 I've been using for different situations.
Fartooth S2 is often overlooked, the thing is she has a massive attack stat easily reaching 1200+ if she doesn't recieve any damage and when her s2 kicking in, she attacks every 1s which is on par with April s2 damage output when her skill active. And the global range is just cherry on top. If you buff her with Warf s2 for example, she delivers 2300+ damage bolt across the map with marksman celerity. I sacked Degenbrecher back then with s2. I mean without using its extra range capacity.
Surtr s2 is actually good. I've posted my comment at the other Surtr skill comment below. But, Idk why Surtr needs lv90 that much. I think lv70 is decent. It only 29 attack difference with lv90. Which correspondingly translate into 29x430%x10= 1250 ish damage assuming she only doing 10 attacks during her s3. Compared to one single attack at her lv70 which roughly about 3200 attack. I'd say, heal her one more time so she can make the 11th attack or maybe 31th attack safely. Although having her lower than 60 isn't recommended either. For another comparison, Sui Xiang the dragon boss at the EX stage of Invitation to wine, had 75k HP to 120k+ HP depends on how you kill the wisps. 1250-or maybe 3000 damage if you think she can hold to deliver more than 10 hits, the difference for her entire skill duration isn't going to flip from win to lose. Even after several redeployment. Also note her Attack speed isn't that fast either. At 1.25s shes almost equal to Blue Poison normal attack DPS against enemy without any resistance. Both at their max Level, so BP had 10 less levels. It is a moot comparison, just saying if attack speed does matter. 10 hits means she has to be alive for 12.5s if you want to approximate by the timer. Mostly, she can do much longer than that. Maybe 25s ish. Unless the argument is there're certain enemy that ended with a stripe of HP left for her entire skill duration, i don't see the neccesity to lv90 her. Unlike Chalter, which would be a great waste of ammo to see one didn't die in a single shot (consisted of two hits).
Suzuran s2 is also a decent combination of CC and a constant arts damage. My jaw dropped back then when she holds a lane with her s2, at one of older Chendroshee's video. I thought she has no damage and i was wrong. Lower DPS than Angelina S3 sure, but it always active when it does.
For the record, the hardest part about any M6 -> M9 to justify is the last skill, to which 6* units almost always have a weaker / redundant one - in your example, Rosa and Fartooth skill 1.
Although I could've been more liberal with the "2 good skills" category, I think the ones in consideration are pretty entrenched.
Every operator bar like Exusiai / Ash has absolutely minute gains from Lv70 -> Lv90, but Surtr (and to a lesser extent, Eyja) is mentioned as a result of her usage everywhere against anything, so in the long run a minuscule boost on an operator you will always use vs a big boost on a niche operator kinda deal.
@@Drails I respect your opinion but if i had to choose between the 20 last level and raising another character from zero to e2 lv31 I'd choose the latter. As long it is not the kind of i can't kill an enemy because of the lack of statistics. And a miniscule one at it. I'll raise my Surtr if i faced this kind of hurdle.
So i have many 'niche' operator built as well. I think many end game players also have build their own niche selections.
Also in the Surtr case, usually the lack of damage can easily be fixed by adding healing operator in my opinion.
Not saying you're wrong, perhaps its just my strat to diversify things. And i have feeling that the game asked me to diversify even further. It is more apparent with Medic operators. Like before i could survive a lot of stages using only Perfumer. Now i must raise Nightingale, Whisperain, Warfarin, and Honeyberry. Like saying, do you think you're at the end game? You're not done yet! LoL.
Thank you for sharing your opinion.
Yeah, resource efficiency-wise, neither M9 nor Lv90s are anywhere close to worth it. E2 Lv1 to E2 Lv70 costs the same as E2 Lv70 to E2 Lv90 and offers quite literally 3-4 times more in terms of stats.
The video was mainly an exploration of hypothetical options, especially for endgame users who might be growing more bored of the game and want to min-max their existing single rosters without regard for efficiency, hence the title of the video. Diversification of roster is going to be the "correct" play most of the time, unless one is interested in maxrisk CC, low-op, etc.
at 5:29, isn't the third skill on screen greythroat's S1?
whoops LOL, but yeah it is
The m9s tier list is straight up garbo. Im sorry but there are too many operators with more than 1 good skill to m3 in the bottom tier while some other ops who do have 2 good skills would still not wanna mastery the other less superior one other than the fun factor of it as it's just worse than the other one (Ling for example). The fun aspect is arguable for any operator skill.
Level 90 is worth it for summoners - Not a summoner main.
Wait you 90 ling but not Magallan???? That’s wild. Obly would like a word
After Ling's existence, there's unfortunately (almost) no circumstance that Magallan sees use in summoneronly aside from waifu reasons
M3 ling and bagpipe? bruh
Saria has been and always will be a huge contender for M9. S1 good for tanking and being your Core Defender. S2 for Support Healing. S3 for Support Healing and Debuff.
anyone else have a pot 6 elysium bc of the wwe banner? :'D
For Weedy, you didn't mention that her S2 M3 would go from "push slightly" to "push moderately". It's really strong, she can hold the stone golem permanently with this
did you mean s1? s2 can't hold golems at all, and s1 is the one I didn't recommend m3ing because nobody will use it even w/ increased force
@@Drails it's indeed S1 that does it, nevermind
Just here to say I giggle a bit at him pronouncing the “g” in Gnosis when it’s meant to be silent but interesting video. I definitely should’ve gotten an Elysium pot in shop but I figured it would happen naturally.
Haha I mispronounced it like 4(?) months back once along with "Saileach -> Psylark" and it's been a running joke in a friendgroup of mine ever since.
Real Gs are silent.
Saileach is queen
In the M9 discussion, Mudrock's S1 was used in the low-op max risk CC8 squad, she should perhaps be included in the "questionable" tier. Flametail, Nian and maybe Specter alter should be in the "2 good skill, 1 bad skill" category. For Flametail in particular, S2 masteries are very important to make the skill helidroppable, and the skill was used in one of the max risk CC8 clears. Similarly, Nian's S3 is the skill that generally sees the most recommendations for mastery, but her S2 was critical in CC8. Specter alter seems to be similar to Mountain, where S2 is the main skill and S3 is a burst damage skill that cannot compete with the top tier skills of the category. Now that the operator herself is so much stronger, it might be worth considering.
Any skill can find a tiny enough niche should one wish to design a scenario which centers around it, to which CC8 was for pure defenders. Literally *any* skill has the potential to see maxrisk CC usage if it's tailored enough for them, so I don't think it'll be useful to claim so for Mudrock S1.
FT S2 is pretty useless outside 1P relay, similar to Guard Ch'en S2, so I didn't include it. Nian's S3 is mostly used for Aak tanking, to which Shining/Skalter do a significantly better job of - I'm more inclined to claim she has 2 questionable skills and one bad skill, similar to Hoshiguma.
Spalter was an oversight, yeah, if Carne's in that category then Spalt S2/S3 does deserve a mention.
@@Drails Thanks for the comment. The first point is a pretty big stretch, there definitely are skills that are impossible to make the optimal choice in max risk CC due to strictly better alternatives existing, though I agree that the pure defense requirement that got Mudrock S1 into max risk in CC8 is extremely rare.
Similarly, the start sequence was so tight in DP that both Texas and Flametail S2 were needed for that particular clear, but tight DP is common in CC, so such a scenario could very well happen again. One interesting use of Flametail S2 that I haven't seen is dodging Aak (there is a 9% chance that Exusiai under Flametail S2 survives Aak and over a 50% chance that Chalter does), but outside of that it indeed is just a worse Texas S2, and for some people that might make it not worth the masteries.
"2 questionable skills and one bad skill" sounds like a good description of Nian.
I disagree with where you put Magallan in the M9 category because S2 and S3 gain the same damage buff from M3, and S1 while not improving its uptime on paper, does bind for an extra 1.5 sec on a skill that's already one of the best Crowd Control tools in the game, but also it slows for 0.1 extra seconds off skill which makes it the only Magallan skill to benefit from M3 off skill besides increased uptime. I also believe that Magallans tier 2 and tier 3 modules are also great, since she can transfer the invis buff to herself and lets you put her on the front lines without any healer. It's the least relevant when using S1 since range overlap is useless on that skill, but for S2 and S3 it allows you to have much more flexibility with how you use her. I'd say that the tier 3 module even makes itself worth it because invisibility is such a powerful buff that it's almost undeniably worth having it for a few extra seconds.
most people using mag will be doing so for 1 of 2 reasons: they saw some cool stall clear / meme nuke video on YT and want to use s1, or they don't have ling and still want to try lowop content - to that end, m3 not m6 is likely better on one skill, but I acquiesce that mag on 2 good skills might be acceptable
mag s2 is... well.... really, really bad; i can't remember the last time i had that much pain trying to make something work
Ling is at least questionable. Her S1 was irreplaceable for Obly Obly's Ling solo IS2 clears. Of course, that's the biggest of memes, but it's still an impressive meme.
I would argue Blemishine is also at least questionable. Her S1 has been useful in some specific cases.
Lee is 2 Good 1 Bad, I would say, as are Passenger, Surtr (maybe; I haven't seen her S1 in action), Saga, Rosmontis, Suzuran... Actually, a lot of the bottom tier belongs one tier up.
Dusk is a questionable M9, as if you're using her as a core op all three of her skills are objectively pretty good, but the condition is precisely that you have to be willing to invest in Dusk and use her regularly.
Silverash should be strongly in the don't M9 category IMO.
His S2 is overshadowed and his S1 simply isn't interesting enough.
There's a specific niche where his M9 excels in which I think is reason enough, but yeah if he didn't have his redeploy talent he'll drop 2 tiers.
I think you goofed the bar chart at 1:07 cause pallas s1 has way more average dps than surtr s3...
He may not have added defense to that. Which only matters for one of them. In any case surtrs dps single target isn’t as insane as one might think. But that’s of course with math I heard like a literal year ago from drail.
Also I’ve changed my mind.
I do like you and still like your content. (To drail) thank you for not waivering and becoming simply opinionated
@@swift-pawedteif386 Defense might not matter to Surtr, but resistance does even with her talent. She may still do good damage even through fairly high resistance, but Pallas will still do tons of damage even through very high defense by the same token. People undersell Pallas so hard it's fucking ridiculous, even in this video you see the same crap really.
They act like she's so hard to use (she's not) or that she doesn't have basically the highest sustained DPS in the game from a ground tile (she does). I use her effectively ANY time a lane has a flow of high defense enemies down it, it's crazy how much better she is consistently killing these then anything else. Not even Thorns after he's fully ramped up comes close to how fast she can chop down beefy elite mobs.
People that say Pallas isn't very strong are just total twits.
@@Tk3997 hmm she’s “mid”
The real shit show ppl use s2 Saileach is when Pine Soot perma max risk and only do by less ops tryharder, literally just for stalling shit
since I'm a E2L1 player (all operators are at E2L1 maximum, no restrictions on masteries) none of the module stuff applies to me but it's interesting to see your takes on who deserves L90 and M9 compared to my account. a number of the ops/skills that you've put at the bottom for M9 viability are actually ops that I have at M6 or M9 since the raw stats are so lacking and I have to make up for it with better skill investments. tbh it also helps that since i don't spend LMD on leveling, i have a lot more flexibility when it comes to who gets masteries and who gets to E2 anyway, to the point where I can M3 most 4stars on a whim and i have a huge chunk of my roster at E2 for traits (we're talking like, a third of all my ops are at E2)
I don't know how but supporter are very Stronk now
*Ling is stronk. It's just Lingknights, I am not complaining.
tbh lee m9 is also a good contender
uhhhhhhhhhhhhh
I know it's your opinion, I respect that, but I see the M9 part in a different way, but since it depends on the Doctor's team its really hard to generalize...
"Psylocke?" The X-Men character? Is Saileach supposed to be pronounced like that? Lol.
Ah yes. Min-maxing nowaday is just build meta ops. Up to E2 and M3 desireable skill. Just like CelestiaTheSmirk run on Bili2
prayin you get 0 off banners, king
I am kind of a completionist f2p which is a big problem
And tbh, I just wanted to raise ops until E2 30... then the paradox simulation and extra lore appeared and some needed lvl 60
Then modules, for which I want to give every 6* one, it's not as crazy as one for every op right?
Then the tiers appeared and everything went to shit.
Now they have amazing upgrades of course, but it will cost an arm and a leg for everyone who plans on getting some for their favorite 6*
At least once every 6* has one or two modules each they probably won't get more (besides new 6* getting modules and stuff)
So at one point I'll just need time to deal with it
With masteries I just want one for each 6*, of course their best skill, M1 sometimes if it's good (fuck that medal for 100 masteries, who the fuck is crazy enough for that?)
And potentials are basically useless for 6* in my eyes, I want different 6*, not a fucking max pot bagpipe
It was nice pot5 because of the sp, but max pot? That's just garbage for me, I just wanted gnosis...
Anyway, very informative and interesting, i just wanted to ramble a bit
Sailack
"Theres like zero ops worth M9"
Saria, Weedy, Saileach: bruh
Of course it's came from someone with Surtr profile pic
In all fairness, Weedy really isn't - she's an M7 at best.
Even one of EN's defenderknights players (squidybear, multiple world records etc.) thinks Saria M9 is a waste.
My stuff here is more of what you "could" do rather than my explicit recommendations, but w/e
M9 and lvl 90 ash is a MUST!!!
If you have pot 6
as someone who is absolutely terrible at making good decisions I'll stick to whatever the hell I'm doing because I'm achieving waifus I love
do one for 5* op lol
i don't play enough 5*s to make videos centred exclusively around them, unfortunately
@@Drails one day :( oh well
m9 my saria and surtr Kinda disagree on your surtr placement cus i m9 her and have no regrets at all her other skills my not be op but still has uses, as an endgame player she has what i wanted which is variety. plans on m9 saileach, weedy, skalter, gladia, and nearlter.
Im doing m9 for dusk
Saria S2 is the most used of her skill since launch of CN because of how it act as a good AoE heal, M9ing saria is a priority imo u are just bad at this game.
also saileach is the worst DP gen vanguard, she's not worth bringing when the combo of bagpipe+myrtle+ely is suffisant even for CC. u are very bad at this game.
whose alt are you
Heavily flawed tierlists for some operators, but otherwise good vid
All tierlists have to be generalised to some extent - I'm trying to find a more lateral/descriptive format that doesn't compromise on readability too much though.