This feels like Nintendo is just the favorite child, and people (in Japan) are willing to ignore their wrong doings in relation to this. I know japanese culture is all about respect and formalities, but Nintendo show neither to anyone they will punch down on. And saying "Palworld is on the same level as *NINTENDO*" because they have a deal with Sony is insane. PocketPair didnt suddenly gain a networth of $60billion because they have a sugar daddy willing to help them with tech and logistics. PocketPair doesnt have over 7,000 employees globally and one of the largest, most powerful law teams on the planet. I grew up loving Nintendo and played pokemon from Yellow, all the way up until S&M, even if i hated S&M. But this is just Nintendo abusing their ability to patent thousands of copyrights, and coast on the fact that they are one of the biggest, most powerful companies in Japan, while PocketPair is a studio of less than 100, with some measure of outside help. Im almost certain PocketPair won't win this, and it disgusts me. East? West? Cultural differences? I dont particularly care. This is Nintendo throwing a tantrum because a competitor popped up and stole their spotlight for a single moment in almost 30 years of Pokemon's total and complete market dominance.
and here we are, ignoreing where the lines are. sony is as tied to pal world as nintendo is tied to pokemon. people forget the differences between main nintendo and pokemon and i'm tired of people treating everything pokemon does as just being nintendo. (the lawsiut is nintendo though)
@@kittenfan7664 no its not. 3:33 it lists Pokemon Company, and nintendo under it. it doesnt say nintendo alone. Again if this youtuber was smarter he would of brought up pokemon company and not nintendo. alone. his audience and him think nintendo is pokemon company, and that nintendo owns gamefreak. ive been schooling them for over an hour and they are big mad that they couldnt do 5secs of googling so they are coping with the most tardation ive ever seen by ignoring facts ive already corrected them on 6 times
@@MunchieLuknight I find that a bit dubious being Nintendo is one of the major shareholders of Pokemon Company, and one of the founders of Pokemon Company... Pokemon Company is part of the Nintendo family as a result. I'm not sure who the majority shareholder is in the company of Pokemon Company, but being Nintendo is the soul owner of Pokemon Properties outside of Japan, ie Pokemon outside of Japan is solely NINTENDO. I'm pretty sure Nintendo has more say over Pokemon Company than any other partner. So essentially Pokemon Company might as well be considered Nintendo.
@@Alte.Kameraden Gamefreak is the largest shareholder. and its not nintendo outside of japan. its well its confusing if you are talking about video games, or merch, or the trading cards, or the anime. nintendo has nothing to do with a few of those. i was trying to stick with the video games in this, otherwise you are talking about Creatures Inc.
@@MunchieLuknight I am sticking with the video games. Internationally Nintendo handles distribution and localization of Pokemon games. Even Pokemon Go which isn't' on a Nintendo platform still has Nintendo's name attached. Being Pokemon games are almost solely on Nintendo Platforms, and Nintendo is responsible for much of the foreign localizations/distribution of the games Nintendo basically has a Monopoly on their digital games when it comes to platforms and distribution. In all respects, Nintendo has the most power over the company as a result. It may be a Partnership on paper, but what kind of partnership is there when one company holds a monopoly on where your product is sold?
i have a feeling shills and paid actor babboons who schizopost and immediately turn and run with a flood of schizoposts that hides the palworld related stuff.
I believe it's more than that. So far he's taking a manipulative approach and appealing the foreign market to gain support. Appearing as the small weak little guy when they're backed by larger companies. The fact that the western side fell for this hook line and sinker is pretty disappointing. I want to point out I'm not shilling for Nintendo. And yeah the patient laws in Japan are not great in terms of the western perspective. But if Miyamoto is more professional than the guy being hailed as a martyr. I think that's proof some people need to get their priorities checked.
@@persomiissleepy I think to a degree that's kind of the divide in the west people are not looking at this as Miyamoto vs the palworld guy, we see it purely as faceless corporation vs another faceless company. and the other thing a lot of people in the west have this concept of punching down or using disproportionate power to get what one wants. from the western perspective it feels like Nintendo is using a bazooka to handle a rat problem, especially since this is about patents as there's risk of this effecting everyone in the gaming sphere not just palworld. so in some places there's also a sense of self preservation or the preservation of game development as an art form. granted I feel it would a lot more cut and dry if we knew what patens nintendo was pushing here because I feel the fear many westerns have is will this create a monopoly over the monster/animal catching genre regardless if its an rpg, overworld game, or other. because at the end of the day the average westerner fears the very idea of a monopoly more than anything else.
Its pretty hard to take Nintendo side when which patent infringed upon wasnt told. Kinda feel like Nintendo doesnt want to try solve the situation - A Digimon fan :)
digimon are cool but something is lacking. i have no idea what that is but id love to see them compete with pokemon and get some Ws -not a Digimon fan though not a hater
@@Red-iu6wuwhat digimon is lacking is the lack of Marketing and the lack of the existence of a good and viral game like Palworld and Pokemon main games. I’m a huge Digimon fan myself, but let’s face it. Most of their games are ass objectively speaking. They are games only the most nerdy Digimon super fans could love, and while I am one of them I still could see the blinding glare of the games’ faults that absolutely makes casual fans stay away. I hope Digimon ever had a game that can go viral as Palworld and be enjoyed by a huge chunk of fans and non-fans alike. But in the 20+ years Digimon existed, they never seem to succeed making one. Anime-wise, they are alright, but just sub-par.
This video changed my opinion of Japanese fans. I thought maybe they had some information that wasn't translated, but it's just a horribly toxic fanbase.
@@snintendog right? "ooo company is big, lets lay down and let them walk on us while offering them money just for accusing us of wrong doing" like what is that? I'm not just going to give a big greedy company money because they have hurt fi-fis and want to be the only big fish. that's bull
True. Even in Japan, there are quite a few people who hate Pokemon fans. Pokemon fans are often ridiculed for being childish and are referred to as "ポケモンおじさん" or "ポケおじ". There are several meme images that demonstrate this.
Japan, for once in your life learn that big companies are not your friend. Even if the rumors of copying pokémon's monster designs are true that has nothing to do with their patent lawsuit.
why are everyone talking about the 2021 patent being after the palworld trailer but not talking about the fact Craftopia had most of those mechanics already, and craftopia is from 2020 - a whole year prior to the original filing and even earlier than palworld. but stating this outright would speak ill of the japanese patent office responsible for such amazing patent being approved in the first place by not doing their due diligence to check the indie scene for games using those mechanics years and even decades prior to the filing(yes I am angry at the mount patent - Ark had that in 2015 and they were accused of being a ripoff of other games). regarding Poketpair's singular sin of saying they are an indie company - what were they the day before palworld released? it has only been a year since, and those things don't usually change so fast. they are not an industry giant, they are not a AAA studio, they are somewhere in the range of the AA studios but that is EXTREMELY recent, they were very much an indie until palworld released and such a blunder would be easily forgiven when making an announcement after you have been sued by a MEGACORP that have public adoration for a nonsense reason because they don't want competition(something anti-monopoly laws should cover, but no one ever bother with those).
What class as indie is studio size, not budget and income receive. So their still class as a indie company regardless of the success of Palworld. AA studios are AAA studios that left publishers to become independent, like 10 Chambers, IO Interactive, and Embark Studios.
@Underground3 they scaled up the team after the launch of palworld, this was a natural result of their increased income from the game, which is why I think they potentially qualify as a AA by now.
Also Nintendo have patent on riding on the creature. 1. in Japan and other states you have to do patent year after you implement it first time but since Nintendo had first horse in Ocarin of Time and patent was made in 2024 it legaly do not work. 2. Bethesda had horse riding in Daggerfall in 3D space before Nintendo. So yeah, Microsoft can literally sue Nintendo for patent mechanic of the game that made one of their studios and even by person that still works at that studio (ehm Todd).
A lot of the reasons to hate Pocket Pair and support Nintendo is based on lies, unverified information, or false and unclear characterization of something the CEO says. There was a huge lie about the CEO "attacking" a Palworld lookalike by Tencent, when he was actually praising it and happy there are more games like Palworld. Pocket Pair is a much friendlier company than Nintendo when it comes to derivative works, they have much more reasonable terms for fanworks as well right on their site, whereas Nintendo sends legal threats to modders and fangames. Also it should be noted that initial statement by Nintendo against Palworld was instigated by rabid Nintendo fans spamming them about Palworld. Those people attack anything they deem "disrespectful" to Nintendo. So I highly doubt this claims of an ex-employee, who seems to be just a random person on Twitter. Japanese are not any more well-behaved online than people in western countries. They lie, spread rumors, bully and troll just like people here in the west. And Twitter is just as much of a cesspit for that stuff too.
Yeah they did that statement just to try to get the rabid fans to stop sending them insistent notes to 'look, palworld, sue them' that I bet were raining on them constantly.
Sorry that you had to hear all that. Good thing translation software has come a long way over the years, otherwise I wouldn't have known what you were talking about.
@@entropyOTD Unfortunately, many people in Japan think that way. I think the answer to this is that the Nintendo Switch accounts for more than half of Japan's gaming hardware market share. And most people don't even think about whether Nintendo's patents are legitimate.
It is folly to pull this stunt, and the worst part is the ramifications it will have later regarding future game development should Nintendo win. The people supporting Nintendo over this are complete fools.
@@BlackTempleGaurdianI Legit Did A Stream Playing WoW But Im Just Creating A Character To Be Able To Play The Battle Pets Portion. Even Played Pokemon Music, For Comedic Effect, While Saying/Singing “I Wanna Be The Very Best Pet Master That No One Ever Was”. I Did It As A Joke With A Friend Cuz He Did A Similar Thing, Only Playing Another Game Just Cuz It Had Mahjong In It.
Idk how it works in Japan, but in EU the disclosure, here the Palworld announcement trailer, before the filing date of the patent will immediately invalidate any sueing rights for that patent against Palworld and in some cases completely invalidate the filing and thereby the patent.
This is NOT how it works in Japan. If anything, it's actually nastier the way they did this: by creating (using a system theoretically intended to protect inventors who might not have understood how to properly break apart their creations into individual patents) a set of "child patents" (I can't remember the proper term but that wasn't it) based on a previously filed patent (which is questionable in format but definitely filed in time), they both multiply the number of individual charges they can make at once AND put the original patent out of the jurisdiction of the legal case. This means even if some of the child patents end up being declared invalid (which isn't all that likely in the Japanese court system, where patents are actually supposed to be used a tool for punishing individuals and smaller businesses; we are here operating under the presumption the big companies who employ and provide for many citizens are thus automatically the good guys), the original patent stands and even a single subsidiary patent holding up wins the case, whereas even if somehow Pocketpair wins against all charges the original patent remains unchallenged. I agree this case is garbage most places on the planet, but we're in Japan: first to file beats proven first to invent (because it demonstrates asking permission of the government to please be allowed to commercialize this invention). Realistically, we're probably counting on Sony's partnership to work out a deal.
Basically what will happen is palworld will be unable to be sold in japan, but everywhere else it'll be fine since the rest of the world has a more unified look at patents, while japan has different rules for them. While I'd like for patent laws to be unified worldwide, I doubt this'll cause anything on the world stage to happen.
@@DanaOtken"This is NOT how it works in Japan. If anything... ..." Your reply to post quote: "Idk how it works in Japan, but in EU the disclosure, here the Palworld announcement trailer, before the filing date of the patent will immediately invalidate any sueing rights for that patent against Palworld and in some cases completely invalidate the filing and thereby the patent" Not what he posted... He say in EU... not in Japan.
My understanding is that these recent Pokemon patents are derived from an earlier existing patents, which means that their enforceability is backdated to that earlier patent.
Nintendo have done it in a sneaky way... you should look up whats called "Divisional patents" basically a child patent of an already existing patent, they had a patent that used key words such as "pokeball" and such, so it made sense.... the Divisional patent that was released this year after pocket pair release Palworld. changed the wording and made it broad so it can be used in this way... according to certain layers you can sue based on a Divisional patent if the Parent patent was set before the precedent and offence of said patent infringement. This also is how it works in the rest of the world not just in Japan. since the patents have been filled with the US that are vague.
Japan (and Nintendo) needs to take an L. Too much corporate worship over there, especially in the Japanese gaming community. The company could be downright evil, with all the counter evidence provided, yet Japan courts will still side for the bigger and older company. At best, whatever happens, Japan ruling should have no weight outside their country. We have enough problems with patent trolling, lawfare, and copyright abuse. Nintendo doesn't own flying, mounts, ball catchers, or monsters.
sure if you can show me a monster being caught in a ball, and summoned out of a ball before Pokemon. that will be great.....no? you cant?! you mean the game called pokemon with guns is a ripoff of POKEMON, and not some random game that doesnt exist you are imagining to make a point
@@MunchieLuknight lick the boot harder. And if you want to talk about monster captures, look for shin megami tensei, since it came way before pokemon and had much of its systems copied by game freak. By your own 'tard logic, pokemon should pay the SMT guys their "fair share".
Someone needs to tell them "Respect" doesn't pay the bills anywhere outside of their nice clean little island ... especially now that their banking scam to undercut all other interest rate for Won into US dollars has turned more rotten than week old sushi
As someone who has played pokemon from the gray brick. and someone who greatly enjoyed palworld. This video didn't change my opinion from the last. I won't defend palworld, but if Nintendo's response to competitors is to scare them into shutting their doors rather than picking up their hammer and being the true master showing the start up whelps how its done, then my wallet will close to them. Nintendo's formula is staling and drop in quality is not unnoticed. Either they need to give me something worthwhile or maybe it's just time for me to move on. I can't give my money to a company that'll strongarm companies that try to, either.
@@ZeroXSEED Majority share? Gamefreak Genius Second Majority share? Creatures Inc Genius oh you meant Minority share? Nintendo and that declined more, 2 CEO's ago. That guys family has his shares. go ahead and look at the intro of Pokemon games. youll see when Nintendo was no longer in the credits, it was like 20 years ago
Really don't care how in the wrong people think Palworld is, Nintendo going after patent is an attempt to chill innovation and it will always be a net negative to gamers. Protect your copyrights all you want, but attacking game mechanics means that other games cannot evolve systems that advance game development. Imagine if ID Software patented first person shooter mechanics back in the 90s after the release of Wolfenstein.
So Nintendo going after Colopl because the company wanted to sue anyone saying they created the Digital analog system and hold the patent for it was a net negative to gamers?
You just described a company doing the exact thing I said Nintendo is doing here that is a net negative for gamers. Just because Nintendo kept a company from abusing a patent to stifle innovation does not mean they arent doing exactly that themselves right now. I dont care WHO is waving the sword, my point still stands that attacking game mechanics through patent litigation IS in fact a net negative to gamers. So your whataboutism really has no bearing on what I said. That company tried to do it then, Nintendo is doing it now. Yes, it's bad for us.
@@ninjinmugen Nintendo has hundreds of patents and only these patent stuff are being talked now. If it was to be negative to gamers then it would be since the 80's But nothing was done. If Pocketpair loses,only Pocketpair would get the bad ending,nothing would change after this 😐
Any case where a game company loses patent litigation is going to have ripples through the industry, what are you talking about? Whatever patent Nintendo is accusing them of infringing upon, should they win, will immediately cause other game developers to give a wide berth of that mechanic in future games so they don't wind up getting sued too. That's precisely what stifles innovation.
@@ninjinmugen My guy,nothing will change,if other companies stop using a pokeball then that won't stop innovation,that would spark more innovation,since it would create a necessity for something new,which is the mother of innovation.
Btw, the "throwing a ball" patent that Nintendo filed is actually a mechanic in Pocketpair's previous game, Craftopia which was released in 2020. Its why I don't think that could be the one they're using over as they have proof they had that idea before the patent was made.
@tranquility6789 nah your wrong trashtendo dosent care they just want money poketpair are saints that's why they never patented that but trashtendo the trash patented it becasue maybe 1 day they would get competition and they did
Unfortunately, "I can prove I invented this before you patented it" is not a valid defense in Japanese patent law specifically: the legal code there is designed to protect the presumed responsibility of its government in properly reviewing new inventions that could be harmful to society, and it's expected that the person who respectfully applies for the right to commercialize the invention has priority over an inventor who doesn't do that. In most parts of the world it is presumed that there shouldn't be and won't be patents for very basic and stupid things, but it flies in Japan because it's actually expected very large companies who care for so many citizens and are presumed to be extremely socially responsible will use these patents to defend society against individuals and small businesses who are making too much money for their scale and thus can be considered antisocial. I'm not defending this beyond saying that a society's legal code exists to protect its values... both for better and worse.
@@DanaOtken Article 29 of Japanese patent law the inventor has a 1 year grace period to patent their invention and after a year is up it enters public domain so Pokémon patent an invention that was in the public domain.
@@darkroadsahead8668 Could be, and I'll admit that while I've heard a lot which implies this particular article tends to not be respected by the Japanese court system (specifically because putting things into the public domain is seen as antisocial - trying to absolve yourself of responsibility for policing how your invention gets used) I do not in fact have the decades of court precedent laid out to prove one way or the other whether this is in fact how the law is working there. In any event, I'd certainly like it if this line of argument worked.
So in short, Japanese care more about people behind game being respectful, while most Westerners just want a good and polished game regardless of who's responsible for it, right?
I think there's a number of misconceptions that Japanese fans are under about the West and their reactions to Palworld. Here's some things we believe that they might not understand. 1: We don't hate Nintendo, and generally think they make good games focused on being fun. 2: We were generally on Nintendo's side in this back when we thought that Palworld had actually copied Pokemon and that this was a Copyright/Trademark issue. 3: We don't trust Nintendo as a business because it has been seen as abusing its legal authority, and sometimes is seen as going well beyond what is legal. 4: We generally see corporations as less trustworthy than individual people, and not very trustworthy in general. 5: While you might be able to patent hardware, or in some cases, software as in the lines of code; there is generally no ability to patent mechanics over here, nor is there an acceptance that such a thing Should exist. 6: There is no culture of automatic deference over here. If you're apologizing, it is seen as you admitting fault, and thus liability. And it is also seen as an extremely dangerous thing to do so before you even know what you're apologizing for. 7: We do still see Pocket Pair as an Indie Studio. 8: We generally believe that this would be Nintendo patent trolling, and would have a negative effect on the video game industry as a whole as it stifles innovation, and may even make it nearly impossible to make a large majority of games.
If I may add: We believe that if we pay a significant amount of money for a product, it should be at least of good quality. Specifically, Scarlet and Violet released in a state that showed that Game Freak and by extension, Nintendo did not care about the quality of their product. That sort of attitude damaged the opinion westerners had of the companies. For us, a company that cannot keep the good opinion of its customers because they deceived their customers about the product and its quality deserves to fail. We won’t keep throwing money at them hoping for better results, we will take our money to their competitors who can deliver on their promises. In this case, it doesn’t have to be Palworld, it can be Temtem, Dragon Quest or other games like that
@@sevenember3332 I was specifically talking about Nintendo though. Because Nintendo is the one legally coming after Palworld, not Game Freak. People still love Pokemon, but are coming to dislike Game Freak because they refuse to improve. They've stagnated at best, and seem to be cutting corners which degrade their games at worst. Plus they've had a couple controversies like Dexit, wherein they not only decreased the content in their games, but clearly lied about the reasons for doing so, thus further earning the displeasure of fans. Then BDSP happened, and it was seen as a bland cashgrab which barely changed anything, including the visuals which looked worse in its adapted form, while also screwing up the pacing in a number of ways. Even PLA had performance issues and stuff. Not to mention the crazy thing of Let's Go which a lot of people despised. Not to mention the entire thing of them searching out gimmicks to use as a central focus, but continuously discarding them instead of trying to build on things that started back in gen 7(it was seen as acceptable with megas, but then it was seen as them downplaying them in gen 7 and completely discarding all previous gimmicks each generation in gen 8). So the major bugs which showed up in SV were piled onto a big stack of grievances, and we just treated them really harshly because we already have issues with them. Personally I enjoyed playing Violet, Despite all the glitches that I ran into.
Nintendo needs to take a hit. They've been content for too long and have started acting like western companies. Im not paying to play online on dogwater servers nor am i paying for this mediocre offerings they give out. the constant war against emulation and now trying to destroy another company for using something they're popular for but not invented and then having the gall to patent that shit and acting like they should own it and no one else should be allowed when theyve been making the same game for the last how many years where you catch critters, take down a team of sorts then become the champion. Screw that. Trying to bully everyone with lawyers instead of making a better product is the lowest of the low.
CEOS for alot of these indie companies are psychopaths, if what was alleged about the drawings are true I'm fine with pocketpair getting sued to the ground.
@@kavinh10 That's the thing,Pocketpair is trash,just after the whole maybe Nintendo will sue because the Pals looks like Pokémon, Pocketpair tried to go after Tencent because one of their games looks like Palworld. What a hipocrite.
@@lordlopes2424 No they didn't you're actually just straight up lying, maliciously at that. The CEO of Pocket Pair even praised a game Tencent made that looks like Palworld: "I'm proud that other companies want to make games like Palworld. The industry historically innovates when we borrow ideas from games we love. I'm surprised that many high-quality mobile games are already in development.”
Legally you should never apologize nor admit fault since that makes you open for liability especially for things you have no knowledge of (in this case undisclosed patent infringement). Unless you want to lose then yeah go ahead.
5:00 Even though it's a divisional patent, it shouldn't have been granted because the invention was already in the market (Craftopia and others) for over a year by the time of the original patent.
also Patents cannot be vague by definition. so whoever the hell pased that patent needs to be checked, maybe Nintendo be bribing them. Also Patents do take some time to fully be published... but the one this year was extremely fast... why?
12:04 This is interesting, I thought that in JP their name for fan-made Pokemon was オリポケ (oripoke, "original-Pokemon")? But this person uses フェイクモン (feikumon) instead. Sounds like they've been following the overseas Fakemon designing community for so long that they ended up adopting their term
You mean they have to bow their head, say sorry to nintendo and let nintendo tell gamefreak "hey, you can make the SAME format for pokemon over and over now, you don't need to adapt, we got rid of competition" and just accept that? Sorry, I know that some think Nintendo is not in the wrong here, but this patent thing is not only just a bad move to say "i don't want competition but I don't want to work for it either" it also just feels like they did it totally out of spite no matter how much someone tries to look at it another way. Its gonna lead to gamefreak getting more and more lazy in their work cause they know they can't be touched if nintendo going to protect them even if the work is not great cause the brand will sell. As far as the person saying they worked for palworld, force to do plagiarize work, less there like a definite proof this has happened, I won't be able to believe it. I also realize they don't seem to be small indie to some anymore, but if we gonna turn our backs on those that finally hit it big, we gonna see no growth in the industry.
Nintendo is 100% in the wrong. teh WMDs of the legal world are FLYING all over japan right now thanks to this. Patent infringment here there and everywhere. Sega konami, Bandai doesnt matter Nintendo BROKE MUTUALLY ASSURED DESTRUCTION, M.A.D. This is a microcosm of what will happen if Nukes get used again.
We have to be careful on this because, if PocketPair is really THAT unpopular, it's not out of the question for ex workers to lie about them to try and recover some amount of reputation or to not become a pariah or to simply get some level of clout.
This. I wasn't pissed at Nintendo for going in a patent court against Palworld - it's shitty, sure, but more than that, this is Nintendo arming the missiles and pointing it towards Pocketpair because they dared to be innovative. Because they've become complacent, they shut down an innovative company. Now that they have shown the missiles, who's to say they won't change their target when they see something they don't like? This is how you kill innovation.
in regards to the Killer Parent Patent, It involves the mechanic to "Throw an item to catch a creature in an open field" here's the thing: Japan is very strict with patents: You have only one year to file a patent. However. This Game Mechanic was used by Pocketpair in craftopia and craftopia was released in 2020, but the patent was filed in 2021. Pocketpair is the original company that made this game mechanic, meaning Nintendo has no right to patent it. That means it's an illegal patent. Nintendo has a chance of not having their way in this lawsuit
I feel the Japanese audience is being extremely biased with their take as Nintendo has been their golden game dev for so long so they purposely ignore all the legal BS nintendo pursues under the guise of protecting their IPs. Personally, i think Nintendo has been historically draconian when it comes to 'protecting' their IPs and going after people, groups and even other companies that even so much as look at Nintendos IPs as inspiration is BS and is mostly done to keep potential competition at bay. Unfortunately i dont think pocket pair stands much of a chance in this legal battle simply because Nintendo has almost endless coffers to pull from to fund a legal battle plus, as this video has clearly shown, theres a big bias in Japan against any company that goes against nintendo and since theyre both japanese companies and this will be settled in Japaanese courts, pocket pair is 100% fighting an uphill and losing battle. Maybe if they were a western company then pocket pair would have a better shot at winning or at least getting the case thrown out but not if this is dealt with in the Japanese legal system
Oh, absolutely. Nintendo has been rigging the game since the 80s. During the Famicom/NES days, they were forcing exclusivity deals to try and starve out any real competition, on top of pulling some McDonald's-level nonsense by making developers purchase carts directly from them by the thousands, and the publishers could only release 5 games a year (which is why brands such as Ultra showed up through shell companies so publishers could sidestep their agreements to release more games). This sort of behavior is old hat for Big N.
Nintendo are the good guys.... They go after pirates, which hint hint... protects developers jobs and their economy. US & European people aren't quite as smart. they think piracy is okay because they made up some bs about how emulation technically can be legally if you own the game, but no one who emulates actually does own it. sooo its illegal but they pretend its legal, and thousands in gaming keep getting fired year after year but ...piracy is okay cuz cope. Nintendo has been hiring more year over year. while companies that dont fight piracy have been having mass layoffs each year...yeah, and you wonder why college graduates in your country cannot afford houses. youll figure it out when its too late
What made me upset is that Nintendo supporter keep lambasting Palworld for pokemon ripoff design yet when confronted by the issue of patent and how it would affect other games they turn back, head in the sand and moon us. I'm sorry if I have absolutely zero sympathy. It was not an equal court fight nor it was a good faith public argument.
its literally proven that its copied in this video. if you dont want design to be stifled, dont support games that make generic survival games like 1000000s of other games, with stolen art. thats the real destroyer of the industry. we need original games, not cheap rip offs
@@MunchieLuknight Palworld is extremely innovative. More than just survival base it combines this with much more crude version of factory network game with each facility have specific function that can be operated by friendly NPC with unique strength and weakness. Which makes people had to think on how they want their base built and optimized. THIS is innovation. People joked about sweatshop and slavery but it is innovation.
@@ZeroXSEED if it was extremely innovative why did it rely on ripping off Pokemon designs? They should have let their game stand on its own, now they are tied up in a legal battle. You know why, because they wanted to get Pokemon money
I support Pocketpair because they aren't stopping me from playing Pokemon. I oppose Nintendo, because they appear to be actively trying to stop me from playing Palworld. I do not appreciate Nintendo's belief that they have a right to control me. I do not approve of their abuse of their customers.
To be fair, if you have to get mad at anyone, be mad at Nintendo. Game Freak has made it clear that their hands are tied, especially when it comes to fan games and roms. Nintendo and The Pokemon Company are the ones who demand things be shut down, whereas the people at GF have been pretty open that they like seeing people make things from their games and encourage people to design and program, even saying some should apply for a job with them. But again, their hands are tied. And if Nintendo or TPC go after someone, they have to go against them too.
@@snintendog says the guy that said Nintendo owns Gamefreak... tell me why Nintendo is publishing games to steam under the name Rising Star Games in your fantasy world? ALL REVIEWS: Mostly Positive (639) RELEASE DATE: Feb 6, 2017 DEVELOPER: GAME FREAK inc. PUBLISHER: Rising Star Games
@@snintendog lol who is the spammer now? that thread was absolutely flooded by you with unrelated nonsense. still waiting for you to explain how Nintendo owns 90% of Gamefreak. proof please
So, rather than smoke the disrespectful turd monkey in competition, Nintendo is just going to admit defeat and hit pocket pair with a Strategic Lawsuit Against Public Participation?
If Palworld lost this just because people in Japan do not like them (which as I know Japanese law system it can happen). They still can just move into US or into EU and there is no way that these patents can success outside of Japan. Everything I found about that just more convincing me that Nintendo standing on the water in this and hope that PocketPair give up or lose on reputation.
The problem with Nintendos patent is that alot of other games use those same capture mechanics, not just Palworld. So if they were able to, legally, take down Palworld for that, they could, if they so chose, go after these other indie titles as well.
They could not. Remember this takes place in Japan. Outside of japan the patentlaws are a bit different. So they could go and try to stop the Distribution of the games in japan but Outside of japan they have no power.
Effectively Nintendo has opened Pandora's box with this... They win the case, now they have a decision to make: go after every other game dev that infringes on the patents wasting more time and money, or, leave it with crushing palworld reducing people's opinion of them (outside of Japan) even further and become a laughing stock of a company that was threatened by a tiny company in comparison. Additionally them winning opens up another can of worms as other companies are shown they can do the same with little repercussions
People can say whatever they want. The idle fact is that Palworld is competition, and Nintendo trying to kill it is a sign of weakness and lack of faith in their own IP, even before the dirty legal tricks. The way I see it, America supports Palworld because competition is the foundation of capitalism, which is why monopolies are *ILLEGAL.* Palworld shouldn't be expected to apologize when Nintendo transparently created these patents in response to Palworld existing to retroactively punish them for daring to exist as competition, Nintendo should be apologizing to Palworld and gamers worldwide for being so offended by the idea of competition they manipulated the law to try to remove any option other than Pokemon now and forevermore.
Personally, I've been very upset with pokemon games released during the last 10 years and have been annoyed by how many times great pokemon fan projects (legal or not) have been taken down. I've been hoping for a great survival monster catcher game for so long and I am confident that no matter how much we beg and plea for Nintendo to take time and try to make such a game, they will never bother doing so because it would be too much effort for them and they already have plenty of money anyway. Nintendo as a whole has been so scummy with how they've treated their own consumers and I see it as simple as this: If they're going to treat their fans like shit, it's inevitable that they'll be abandoned. Nintendo will not care if we abandon them anyway. They'll still have plenty of money. There's no lesson for them to learn. Therefore, they're still going to be malicious anyway. I don't see Nintendo ever growing or improving, so I no longer have respect for them overall. I could not care less if Pocketpair is indie or not. I want them to grow, thrive, expand and seek wealth anyway. They made a better game. End of story.
@@MunchieLuknight You realize that is a very impressive number for a game without a VERY solid name backing it. It's a bit unfair going 'but it didn't sold as well as the latest game!', when you have to admit pokemon is a household name, tons of fans know it for ages, have a relationship with the brand, and all that.
@@MunchieLuknight Have you been not reading what I've been typing? I never said anything about Pokemon selling less than Palworld. If anything, what you said has just been agreeing with what I said. Pokemon is making tons of money anyway and will always sell more. I'm just sick of how shitty the games are to play now.
@@Aldenfenris it only got those numbers because it ripped of Pokemon designs. i know it, you know it, everyone knows it. They especially know it, thats why they did it. and now they are getting sued. was it worth the price? we shall see. if they had original designs it would of sold like crap
Nope, so far, all I am seeing is old man nintendo demanding an excuse to continue being lazy and not be challenged to evolve. So still feels like nintendo deliberately did it to be scummy
The Pokemon switch game are such a offense to human inteligence, their quality was so bad and overall horrible games that are not even complete, or even releases in playable form, that from a player and customer pov, Pokemon company deserves no symphaty on this
@@chicoazteca gamefreak is an independent studio, and majority share of Pokemon Company. they cant fix it. there were reports they yelled at them for the switches pokemon, and they were going to take them to court because people were issuing a lot of refunds and Nintendo doesnt have western investors like Sony, MS, and Valve. they blocked Blackrock from investing.. they are literally the good guys in gaming
I only got Pokemon Violet because I heard it was an improvement over Sword and Shield, so I thought it was at least decent. Never even got to the first Gym, dropped it before then because it was just THAT dull and overly easy. Was worried about overleveling my entire team just trying to catch Pokemon. I felt punished for *doing the thing the game encourages you to do.* I wanted an experience that at least gave me something of a challenge. I still remember going into Cynthia's battle in Gen 4, never once expecting a win since I was just doing a throwaway test battle against the League, and the whole thing was constantly on the edge, making my surprising victory by the skin of my teeth AMAZING. THAT is what you get when you have proper difficulty for your game. I just miss stories like Black and White, which weren't afraid to play with the formula of the games a bit. Spin-offs like Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, which weren't afraid to tackle darker storylines at times, or Pokemon Colosseum/XD, which flipped things on its head while giving you a challenging set of rules to abide by (and ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING WITH DOUBLE BATTLES THAT NINTENDO INSISTS MUST BE THE ONLY COMPETITIVE MODE, I SWEAR TO GOD, STOP MAKING SINGLE BATTLE SUFFER WITH YOUR TERRIBLE FOCUS ON DOUBLE BATTLES WHEN YOU BARELY EVEN USE THEM IN THE GAMES). Or, hell, stuff like Pokemon Stadium, Hey You Pikachu, and so on. There used to be so much more life in this franchise. There's still sparks of it left at times, Pokemon Legends Arceus shows that, but it feels just choked out.
This whole lawsuit is only teaching me that Filial Piety goes right out the window when the elders I'm supposed to respect is Nintendo, purely because of past glories.
This is a second comment for details; IN Palworld, you have many extra steps, you attack the pal, not on turn bases, you can get attack from other pals while capturing one, you can also craft them, and these sphere are optained by mining, and improved only by having pals work at the factory to improve their quality; you also need amor, hp, and levels stats to capture the pal, and by the way, you can capture npc, and actually surprised pal has weak point where if you throw the sphere specifically at this weak point its better success. also, you're not standing with the pal sphere, your actually constantly moving, that means there IS NO ACTUAL POSITION TAKEN TO CAPTURE, also the pal sphere isn't a technology, it's just a literal ROCK you can actually mine it and craft it. also, your pals keep attacking the pal you're trying to capture, and the pal, can be hit by literal anything else, making your capture chance basically zero. Also, Pokémon doesn't display color indicator or visual indicator; this is especially true with legendries and many other type of Pokémon as regardless of what health and state they are easily take massive number of balls; meaning that in reality there is no visual indicator in Pokémon causing, the literal patent to be invalid in the terms of indicator and chance. Palworld does have an actual real percentage indicator, and a clear constant color indicator that is consistent with all pals legally, its could be a play to use those details of that indicator against Nintendo.
Japanese citizens look at corpos much different than the west. While no doubt there is some brand loyalty in the west, it's nothing like in Japan. In the west, corpos are mocked, but in Japan, they are unbreakably loyal to them.
I think the Japanese need to understand why we hate patting trolling. And see companies doing these things or harming the gaming industry of true innovation. Japan needs to understand each country has its own rules of patting and how to get one from that country.
also due to certain political and economic climate, much of the general public in the west is going to have a preemptive bias against large corporations in general so it's definitely not a good time for any large company to be trying to flex any legal muscles
@@gusty7153 yeah the Japanese do not care in large though, Nintendo is their baby... I just hope that Sony and Xbox outsell Nintendo and Pocketpair picks up and moves to somewhere not as anal as Japan.
Patents are a plague to gaming. May mechanics and ideas that Nintendo has used over the years weren't original to Nintendo. For example Monster Rancher (or Monster Farm in JP) came out a year before Pokemon's release, and had many similar mechanics. Dragon Quest Monsters even made it to market before Pokemon. Nintendo's cowardly patent hunger is nothing more than a way to legally stifle competition. It's embarrassing for them as a company, and regardless of how much inspiration was taken from the design of Pokemon, they are so vastly different in many significant ways, that Nintendo should spend more time refining their tired Pokemon formula, than wasting time and resources trying to quash competitors.
i'd love another shadows of war but WB has the patent on the nemesis system and their next title is some kinda weird wonder woman game stuck in development hell. That being said sony has committed heinous anti consumer acts as well so I'm ok with whichever gets fcked
"innovation" rip off art, with generic survival building gameplay in which a new game is released every other day on pc? that word doesnt mean what you think it does
Nintendo is an old Japanese Company so the people of Japan are prone to being more Biased toward Nintendo. If Nintendo wasn't a Big Japanese Company then the Japanese people would be more harsh to Nintendo. Realistically Nintendo needs to lose this Courtcase primary because with Competition Nintendo will need to Put Quality into Pokemon which has drastically gone down in Quality. It also Will make them think before trying to Kill more Monster taming Games.
Good video, but I still think Nintendo is the devil. The alleged artist story is sad and valid, if true. Copyright could be valid to me, but game mechanic patents are diabolical.
I'm certain that the Japanese supporting Nintendo don't even realize how infamous their reputation has gone abroad. No one wants to respect a company that will sue them just for using their stuff i.e streaming or emulators
"Legally speaking, i don't think that Palworld is gonna win this." It's a true shame tho that people really seems to be easily forgetting the little detail that Pocketpair managed to sign an actual collaboration with Sony tho. And after the disaster with Concord, they definitely aren't going to let another investment being flushed down the drain so easily because of a lawsuit from Greedtendo themselves.
Yeah, its probably the smartest thing Pocketpair did. Their game is on PC, Xbox, and now Playstation. The only system its not on is Switch (Fairly sure the Switch would just blow up anyway given how Scarlet/Violet runs on it).
@@paneth8466 Doesn't Palworld runs under Unreal Engine? I bet even on lower settings and reduced graphics it would STILL look better than S/V at launch.
I love Nintendo but they are still a business and not your friend. They will just as quickly screw you over if it benefits their bottom line. Pokemon has been getting by on a lot of fan good will and get by on a lot of things that would get other games criticism. I say this as a hardcore pokemon fan.
Honestly, this didn't 'change my opinion' about Palworld vs Pokemon so much as it changed my opinion on japanese gamers. It honestly sounds like they're drones too scared of the big companies to admit when said company is being abusive, or too enthralled to realize when that company is attacking weaker competitors. Now, to be fair, I know that not all japanese gamers are like that. Just as not all western gamers are the same either. But this sounds more like blind loyalty to an established entity and desperate clinging on to unverified claims for the sake of supporting that entity at all costs. And yes, Pocketpair IS an indie company. Just as id Software was an indie company prior to the success of Doom. The japanese gamers are completely disregarding everything prior to the filing of Nintendo's lawsuit in claiming that Pocketpair isn't an indie company. Yes, they might not be considered one now that they've partnered with Sony following the success of Palworld, but that is an extremely recent change. They still have a very small staff, and the partnership with Sony hasn't really been established long enough for Pocketpair to really see the benefits of those new resources yet. And before someone tries to bring up the counter-point, Nintendo has never been an indie company. Nintendo started as an electronic game division of an already well established cardgame publisher. The company existed long before the success of their electronic games, and had plenty of resources to draw upon when they made the choice to develop those games. If Nintendo had failed to succeed with their electronic games, they would have continued being a cardgame publisher. Pocketpair's future hinged on the success of Palworld, and they would have continued being just a small, obscure developer if it had failed, if they had managed to remain in business at all considering the investment they put into making Palworld.
Legit all of my Pokemon games, from RGBY to USUM, are all pirated on my hacked 2DS XL. I even have Colosseum & Gale of Darkness on my homebrewed Wii and for Christmas, my family and I will buy a N64 and I'll get an EverDrive64 (or any similar cartridge) so we can play most N64 games for free.
I want to say that I understand and respect JP's view on Pocketpair's lawsuit but I would just be lying. The fact Pocketpair is being attacked for patent infringements without telling what patent they are breaking is just like accusing someone of committing a crime and then expect the victim to say something that could be interpreted as a crime whether it's true or false. Nintendo doesnt deserve any respect at all, not more than EA, Ubisoft or Bethesda. It is easy to claim Nintendo never attack indie company for patent infringements when there are literally no other game that has the balls to offer something that may step on Nintendo's territory. In fact if Palworld had flopped and didnt make so many sells and growth, I am 100% sure Nintendo wouldnt care at all. Right now Nintendo can just sue PocketPair over patent infringements without telling what patent is being broken and just wait until pocketpair no longer has money to invest in the lawsuit. Nintendo needs to take the L but I dont believe they will because there's nothing that cannot be solved by throwing enough money at it.
"In Japan Nintendo is seen as a good company that doesn't go after indie developers for patent infringements." Bruh . . . That's an insane take. Nintendo is one of the most litigeous companies out there. Nintendo is just a few steps down from Disney on the evil scale.
I don't really see Palworld as a replacement for Pokemon. It's not "Pokemon done right", it's a crafty-shooty game. Different genre. It merely uses the same art style and monster capturing concept as a marketing hook. It's an intentional mockbuster, and 100% owes its success to the gameplay elements and designs it swiped from Pokemon.
I see it as proof of demand for these types of games. Next one will propably be made outside of Japan and there is very little they can do about it then.
Nintendo trying to be the next Disney. Become too big to fail, too powerful to fight. Disney will not realize their fallacy before it does unrecoverable harm. Will Nintendo follow suit?
you know, maybe nintendo should try suing disney too, since epic mickey uses some similar mechanics to super mario sunshine a magic paintbrush for example and using liquids to clear obstacles as another example
Well, such patents can be legalized in Japan because laws regarding patents are more lenient than in America. In America, to get a patent approved, it has to be distinct. What Nintendo were trying to patent, however, was extremely broad and, therefore, highly unlikely to be approved. In contrast, the Nemesis System from Shadow of Mordor, while did have similar counterparts mechanically wise, was distinct enough from its counterparts that the patent could be approved.
"painting nintendo in a bad light" My "aniki" in christ, nintendo does that to themselves Prices and practices towards fans, they are making themselves look like the bad guy, sorry jp guys, but that's been nintendo's deal for a long time now
As someone who played pokemon since the release of red/blue and played through every generation and most of the side games I must say that pokemon (main series) grew stale Battle gyms, defeat evil team (or in most recent "evil" teams), battle the elite4, become champion. Also: you wanna catch every pokemon and complete the pokedex? either use home on the switch to send pokemon there and then go into the mobile version to trade and then back to the switch version to take the pokemon out. Oh, you don't want to use online? well, can we interest you in the other version? oh, and maybe another switch so you can get the trade evolutions? everything full price. The problems with S/V were so many but all nintendo cared about was fixing the clone/dupe glitches. Meanwhile Palworld is fun and the base making is fun as hell (RIP Secret base building in pokemon too - stupid statues) and i don't see Bandai getting pissed about people making digimon mods for Palworld. It's fun to dash around the world on Garurumon's back or flying around on Aquillamon's back.
Why Americans don't understand Japanese side is basically summed up to エビリディ's tweets aren't known about by Americans. Along with a significant lack of understanding of patents on the legal side. The tweets, if legitimate, are cause for the user behind the tweets to contact Nintendo and offer to testify as a witness in court. If the tweets are not legitimate, they will be taken as hearsay in court and won't hold up at all. Furthermore, I can see a loophole in the wording of patents which could give Pocketpair an edge in this case. Additionally, if エビリディ's tweets aren't legitimate, then they are grounds for defamation and Pocketpair can sue them. I also wouldn't be surprised if what they said falls under NDA as well. This could get ugly. Yikes.
The burden of proof is on エビリディ (@eb_kemo), who appears to have deleted their account. Any childish person can make up stories about a company they don't like and pretend they were employed, especially anonymous Twitter users and Nintendo fans, who are the ones that started the battle between Pocket Pair and Nintendo by spamming Nintendo's lawyers with false claims of copyright infringement. If the tweets were legitimate why can they only be found in screenshots?? That is the behavior of cowards and fraudsters to make a bold claim and then delete it and their accounts with no explanation or apology. I wouldn't be surprised if they were sent a Cease and Desist to remove their defamation, so they deleted everything like a coward.
It's practically impossible to discuss the legal merits of the case when we don't know for sure which patents are supposedly infringed upon. Yes, there is speculation and that speculation might even be correct. It certainly sounds plausible and most commenters seem convinced that's the infringement Nintendo are talking about. But Nintendo have a lot of patents, and at the moment only they know which patent, or patents, they are referring to. And in my mind, it's still curious that they led with patent rather than copyright infringements. I'm not a lawyer, but the copyright case seems so obvious that most people would have just shrugged and said something like "play with fire, get burned". The patent infringement seems to have come out of left field, and Nintendo seem unusually shy about discussing the details. When those details do come out, it probably will involve the patent everyone is speculating on, but I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo has some additional twists that make them seem especially despicable to most people.
I don't care much for palworld and can totally believe they intentionally plagiarized pokemon designs, but allowing to patent and getting sued for implementing a mechanic as simple as monster capturing should not be a thing.
"as simple as monster capturing" not just monster capturing. capturing same designs in a ball. you dont see them sueing anyone but the rip off company. WOW that took a lot of mental stress to figure out
@@MunchieLuknight Being more pedantic does not make it sound any better. Protect your brand all you want but game design patents are bad, end of story.
They ripped that from Ultraman, they were not even the first to have Pokeballs. Also look up Pokemon Dragon Quest chart, their designs are just as suspiciously similar, bit go on and ask daddy Nintendo to step on your face more.
@@menosay1912 their designs and gameplay are NOTHING like dragon quest. spoken like someone who heard that somewhere but never played the game so repeated it
@@MunchieLuknight Nintendo isn’t going for copyright infringement. Therefore the designs are unique enough that they’re not copies. Let it go the designs are not copies
I support Palworld because it is a spiritual successor to Pixelmon Mod. Developers of Pixelmon Mod combined together many little interactions with the world of Pokemon what were discarded by P.C. long ago or been only explored exclusively in Pokemon anime & manga. Not to mention Pixelmon Mod developers came up with creature capture in first/third person view all the way back in 2012, while core Pokemon games still had no 3D creatures.
I read some comments in Japanese, and some of them are very angry at Pocketpair for even calling themselves as a small company, despite getting a lot of money fro PalWorld. What these Japanese fail to understand here is that, while Pocketpair had indeed gain a lot of money with PalWorld, they are still indeed a small company by legal definition. Quick Google search says Pocketpair has 60 employees, which is 40 people lower than the entry threshold to call a company medium-sized at 100. TBH, all these hating on PalWorld is pretty typical of Japanese mentality. Anyone who rises against the norms or the established status quo are typically frowned upon. Its part of their nature, they dont like change, especially drastic ones. Why else would they be isolationists back in the age of sails, or why else would The Pokemon Company release the same game over and over again, with very little difference.
One of my primary concerns is how new developers can effectively anticipate the emergence of sub-patents, particularly in relation to the filing dates of original parent patents. It feels as though a promising idea can be overshadowed when a company retroactively files child patents to align with their interests. While I understand and respect Nintendo's right to protect their property-an approach that seems entirely reasonable-I find the perception of a system that alters its rules unpredictably to be quite unsettling. Although I am not an expert in this field, I have gained more knowledge about patents than I initially anticipated, which is a good thing. 😅
Pal World is! more like Ark. You can also train, breed, & capture 🦖🦕 in Ark using CRYOPODS. Pal World is a seamless open world with base building, survival elements, crafting, & weapons. Nothing like Pokemon. Unfortunately Japanese people tend to be very drone-like following whatever corporations think.
as an American, think the design of the characters being too close is a no no, like just draw something different. however, the patent infringement is bull crap. like if I make a game with a net gun that launces a capturing net that a creature has a change of breaking out of, as far as i know, that breaks the patent. if the capturing device has to be a sphere, then Pokémon could sue any fishing game that has those red and white floats that already look kind of like poke balls. i want pocket pair to win because if they lose, it sets a precedent that any AAA company can make vague patents and use them to sue any indie dev team simply because they don't like their existence. (or they just want more money wich is more likely)
There's also been a pretty massive pile of minor properties that use the gachapon machines whose capsules look a lot like the pokeballs and similar as part of their thing with it. And those capsules are a generic design because it has to work in a lot of different types of machines.
Knowing how spiteful some Japanese can be, I would take that "employee" explanation with a grain of salt. I like both Pokemon and Palworld, but I do see TPC in the wrong simply due to how they are putting more effort into closing competition or fanworks than improving their own games.
American here, its the idea of patenting game mechanics I find to be a problem It’s like creating an unreasonable restriction on other companies to be able to take that same idea and potentially innovate and make it better We saw this with microsoft internet web browsers by taking other companies ideas and improving on them We also have a couple of court cases where one company sued another over game mechanics and game play Street fighters and asteroids
I remenber someone says that the mecanic to catch a creature in a 3d space has already made in one of the previous work of pocketpair Craftopia or something they already done the capture mecanic in 2020 before the patent was even created in 2021
All I can say is, if Palworld gets taken out, it'll probably hurt Nintendo and GameFreak in the in, considering how popular Palworld is. And I'm all for seeing Nintendo get blasted. They've been asking for it for like over 2 decades.
Something that may not have been mentioned, Pocket Pair, the creators of Palworld, actually made the mechanics for one of the patents; specifically, the patent 7545191. They made a previous game called Craftopia. Which uses this exact same mechanic. And was released to the public in early access on Sept 4, 2020. Nintendo can lose that particular fight and should, because they patented an idea they did not create.
i myself refuse to support or buy or play anything Nintendo ever since they started being a holes...to me they take the award for worst company in the world
Lawsuit has been filed for several patent infringements, mechanics for throwing objects and capturing field creatures is just one patent. Lawyers have considered the mechanics of mounting, riding and dismounting as another potential patent, as well as the mechanics for the character to appear as a shadow when it is hidden behind an object. What worries me the most about these is the patent for riding because Pokemon is not the first game where you could ride a creature and hopefully it won't be the only game in the future where you can mount, ride and dismount.
The Nintendo trademark of the capture mechanic reminds of Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro and the "tap" mechanic in card games and the absolute stifling that had for anything other than Magic The Gathering. Nintendo had the mechanic first, and it was always a danger when people would say "It's Pokemon with guns". Legally they are in the right, but ethically I think they need to reevaluate their position and act accordingly. I think part of it is some animosity still felt over the Nintendo/Sony fallout over the CDROM addon incident a couple decades ago. Nintendo really hasn't done anything to win over their foreign fan base, especially with their behavior in the last few years.
Personally, I consider the whole patent stuff in games as a bogus deal to start with, does the design in a game actually help anyone in the real world through enablement? Not really. Is the patent in question non-obvious? Usually not, it's often extremely obvious. Any utility it has in the game can unfortunately often not be applied to anything outside the game, so it often doesn't even qualify for that requirement either. As for whether it's a patentable subject matter, that's honestly a subjective take which more or less base itself in vanity, possessiveness, tells you more of the individual requesting the patent rather than the patent itself, so that point is probably there just for there to even to exist any reason to make a patent to start with, still, in my understanding, game patents fail most of the other requirements, which calls in question if people just make game patents for their vanity, or if patent businesses just patent stuff, because they think people are idiotic enough to think that the process itself is sane, even though they should had rejected those patents to start with. As for art, art is by default based on something. If people aren't allowed to draw stuff based on something, then art will never come to be. The patent industry weren't made for a global society in mind, it's a business which will need to be teared down to the ground as it currently stifle creativity around the world, not fulfilling its purpose other than making money out of ideas. So what if some pals remind you of this or that, so what if the art style reminds of that or this, is it interesting for you? Buy it, if not, then don't buy it.
I hate the fact that you can patient a game mechanic at all if I am being honest. The issue here that I do not think the Japanese are noticing is that it creates a situation where Nintendo can prevent any competition just simply by suing them if they use a patient. Ik that to the Japanese Nintendo is king and is looked up too but at the same time there needs to be something put in place like a law that would prevent a company no matter how good it appears from preventing another company from using an idea if the use is not for a evil reason. Like ok palworld messed up and as much as I like the game I am willing to state that it will get at least some punishments however what if it was another company simply creating a game that gets really popular. Will Nintendo let it go if there was no intention of copying or will they bring the hammer just to keep pokemon king. Things to consider.
Not sure if anyone's mentioned this, but regarding the capture patent, it hopefully wouldn't hold up as Pocketpair has an older game, Craftopia, that uses a heavily similar and less refined version of the same system. In fact, a lot of mechanics in Palworld are likely cleaned up and refined versions of mechanics in that older game, which its sales helped fund Palworld in the first place, over several years of availability. Unfortunately, I have no idea if Japanese patent law cares actual release date of games with the mechanics or just the date of patent filing, and we'll see what happens, but I do feel it's just downright wrong what Nintendo is doing to silence competition.
Honestly, the JP base sounds more like Nintendo fanboys. If that tweet was real from the artist, then f pocket pair CEO and he better compensate the artist for the hard work. If that artist is fake, f to him and he has to apologize for his lies.
On a slightly unrelated topic: Japanese bullying (such as in schools) tends to be more vicious than the west due to the herd mentality of the culture and the major psychological harm done to its victims, as opposed to just physical.
I mean their workplace culture is just as ass, their sexual assault culture and many other aspects. people always say Japan is living in the future, but their Morals and values are sometimes quite far behind... not for everyone but very traditionalist and not in good ways.
The fact that Pocketpair founders were making fun of Nintendo in tweets, would absolutely qualify their Motives for parody law here in America and in most other western regions where such a thing has massive legal protections
If nintendo fought in regards to the designs, I can understand but they didn't and fought for the capture mechanics. Said mechanics has been around since the start of pokemon in 1996. Japan patent expire in 20 years. Was there patent for it in 1996? I would think so. Then, is this a patent specifically for 3D games? If so, should they be allowed to apply a new one when the only difference is the added visual change? A throwing mechanic in 3D space doesn't sound patentable to me.
The OG Patent in 96 was annulled in the Southpark Lawsuit. This is a tripple wammy of Patent Fraud on Nintendo's Part. No matter what angle you aproah it i can claim Patent Fraud and Slapp Suit
Got it so as a Indie dev if I ever release a monster catcher game that people will compare to pokemon regardless, do not release in Japan cause they all sleep with their version of p-diddy being Nintendo
The only point against me siding with Palworld is the developer's tweets. However, as you said, there is no evidence the individual works there or for anything in the tweets. Hard to accept statements without evidence on a site that financially incentivizes people to be controversial.
There is a different in the capturing mechanic one only shakes several times, and the other shows a percentage and moves to the side! It is similar but not the same!
Good hopefully when a nation of over a billion people stop giving draconian companies whos only goal is to monopolize game genres while stagnating any kind of evolution in game design (by patenting game mechanics which is complete BS imo) their money then maybe it'll have some sort of effect (I doubt it but one can hope)
the country no one takes seriously? the country if we hear your accent we immediately hang up because its a scammer accent? the country with the most malnourishment and rapes in the world? BYE
@@rayman17420 true since the quality on new pokemon games on launch is BS take scarlet and violet its a buggy mess when it came out, as palworld is smooth gameplay and despite having a few bugs the quality outweighs its downsides, Nintendo Bias needs to be warned that the rest of the world is watching your every move and they can crumple an empire with a press of a button
So is anyone going to address that the dates of the trailer and the patent filing dates line up perfectly with malicious intent to financially and legally hurt Palworld? They literally saw the trailer and said to themselves they need to get the patent so they can later sue. This is premeditated and their case should be thrown out. They are putting themselves in a position to deliberately sue. For that I think they should give the victory to Pocketpair.
Maybe there is a general culture aspect to patents as well. In the US we had that time when Apple sued Samsung over a "rounded corners" patent for phones and stories of patent trolls who exist to do nothing but collect patents to shake people down for money, like what happened with NewEgg. As a result patents have gotten a pretty bad reputation here. I'm not sure if there has been anything similar in Japan.
Sorry Japanese community as much as i respect yall culture and everything i cant agree with yall opinin's on palworld being wrong. Even with this extra bit it doesnt change my view and in fact it only makes me want side with palworld even more and i still feel palworld is innocent and doesnt deserve the lawsuit it's getting.
Pocket Pair created the mechanic they are being sued over before Nintendo patented it, the game they first implemented it in was Craftopia long before the Patent for Arceus and they just copied it over from Craftopia into Palworld
Respect is held high in Japan, until it about Companies and Fanboys; -Even monkey throw round aimed stones, to knock down and capture fruits; and that basically a grass type Pokémon if you put the math; and other animals launch stuff to capture or hinder other animals and fruits and also do fishing, even riding. -Patents on basic survival and hunting mechanics, a literal disrespect to life itself
Pokemon has been stagnant for so many years, rehashing the same game over and over, it's fucking atrociouslly boring
I haven't enjoyed a Pokemon game since Game Boy Advance. Barring Legends, but I think Nintendo hated that one due to how quickly they abandoned it.
This feels like Nintendo is just the favorite child, and people (in Japan) are willing to ignore their wrong doings in relation to this. I know japanese culture is all about respect and formalities, but Nintendo show neither to anyone they will punch down on. And saying "Palworld is on the same level as *NINTENDO*" because they have a deal with Sony is insane. PocketPair didnt suddenly gain a networth of $60billion because they have a sugar daddy willing to help them with tech and logistics. PocketPair doesnt have over 7,000 employees globally and one of the largest, most powerful law teams on the planet. I grew up loving Nintendo and played pokemon from Yellow, all the way up until S&M, even if i hated S&M. But this is just Nintendo abusing their ability to patent thousands of copyrights, and coast on the fact that they are one of the biggest, most powerful companies in Japan, while PocketPair is a studio of less than 100, with some measure of outside help.
Im almost certain PocketPair won't win this, and it disgusts me. East? West? Cultural differences? I dont particularly care. This is Nintendo throwing a tantrum because a competitor popped up and stole their spotlight for a single moment in almost 30 years of Pokemon's total and complete market dominance.
and here we are, ignoreing where the lines are. sony is as tied to pal world as nintendo is tied to pokemon. people forget the differences between main nintendo and pokemon and i'm tired of people treating everything pokemon does as just being nintendo. (the lawsiut is nintendo though)
@@kittenfan7664 no its not. 3:33 it lists Pokemon Company, and nintendo under it. it doesnt say nintendo alone.
Again if this youtuber was smarter he would of brought up pokemon company and not nintendo. alone.
his audience and him think nintendo is pokemon company, and that nintendo owns gamefreak. ive been schooling them for over an hour and they are big mad that they couldnt do 5secs of googling so they are coping with the most tardation ive ever seen by ignoring facts ive already corrected them on 6 times
@@MunchieLuknight I find that a bit dubious being Nintendo is one of the major shareholders of Pokemon Company, and one of the founders of Pokemon Company... Pokemon Company is part of the Nintendo family as a result. I'm not sure who the majority shareholder is in the company of Pokemon Company, but being Nintendo is the soul owner of Pokemon Properties outside of Japan, ie Pokemon outside of Japan is solely NINTENDO. I'm pretty sure Nintendo has more say over Pokemon Company than any other partner. So essentially Pokemon Company might as well be considered Nintendo.
@@Alte.Kameraden Gamefreak is the largest shareholder. and its not nintendo outside of japan. its well its confusing if you are talking about video games, or merch, or the trading cards, or the anime. nintendo has nothing to do with a few of those. i was trying to stick with the video games in this, otherwise you are talking about Creatures Inc.
@@MunchieLuknight I am sticking with the video games. Internationally Nintendo handles distribution and localization of Pokemon games. Even Pokemon Go which isn't' on a Nintendo platform still has Nintendo's name attached. Being Pokemon games are almost solely on Nintendo Platforms, and Nintendo is responsible for much of the foreign localizations/distribution of the games Nintendo basically has a Monopoly on their digital games when it comes to platforms and distribution.
In all respects, Nintendo has the most power over the company as a result. It may be a Partnership on paper, but what kind of partnership is there when one company holds a monopoly on where your product is sold?
So people are upset because the CEO allegedly said what alot of us are already thinking about Daddy nintendo on Twitter? Yea, that checks out
A developer roasting pokemon? Unheard of.
i have a feeling shills and paid actor babboons who schizopost and immediately turn and run with a flood of schizoposts that hides the palworld related stuff.
Nippons worship nintendo like mindless ship that they are. hilarious
I believe it's more than that. So far he's taking a manipulative approach and appealing the foreign market to gain support. Appearing as the small weak little guy when they're backed by larger companies. The fact that the western side fell for this hook line and sinker is pretty disappointing.
I want to point out I'm not shilling for Nintendo. And yeah the patient laws in Japan are not great in terms of the western perspective. But if Miyamoto is more professional than the guy being hailed as a martyr. I think that's proof some people need to get their priorities checked.
@@persomiissleepy I think to a degree that's kind of the divide in the west people are not looking at this as Miyamoto vs the palworld guy, we see it purely as faceless corporation vs another faceless company. and the other thing a lot of people in the west have this concept of punching down or using disproportionate power to get what one wants. from the western perspective it feels like Nintendo is using a bazooka to handle a rat problem, especially since this is about patents as there's risk of this effecting everyone in the gaming sphere not just palworld. so in some places there's also a sense of self preservation or the preservation of game development as an art form. granted I feel it would a lot more cut and dry if we knew what patens nintendo was pushing here because I feel the fear many westerns have is will this create a monopoly over the monster/animal catching genre regardless if its an rpg, overworld game, or other. because at the end of the day the average westerner fears the very idea of a monopoly more than anything else.
Its pretty hard to take Nintendo side when which patent infringed upon wasnt told.
Kinda feel like Nintendo doesnt want to try solve the situation
- A Digimon fan :)
same im a digimon fan trashtendo is trash we dont need them
digimon are cool but something is lacking. i have no idea what that is but id love to see them compete with pokemon and get some Ws
-not a Digimon fan though not a hater
Omnimon would solo pokemon world
I very much liked Digimon World Dusk/Dawn but the closest thing like it since is Cyber Sleuth which felt a bit lacking in comparison.
@@Red-iu6wuwhat digimon is lacking is the lack of Marketing and the lack of the existence of a good and viral game like Palworld and Pokemon main games. I’m a huge Digimon fan myself, but let’s face it. Most of their games are ass objectively speaking. They are games only the most nerdy Digimon super fans could love, and while I am one of them I still could see the blinding glare of the games’ faults that absolutely makes casual fans stay away.
I hope Digimon ever had a game that can go viral as Palworld and be enjoyed by a huge chunk of fans and non-fans alike. But in the 20+ years Digimon existed, they never seem to succeed making one.
Anime-wise, they are alright, but just sub-par.
This video changed my opinion of Japanese fans. I thought maybe they had some information that wasn't translated, but it's just a horribly toxic fanbase.
They are just sheep.
Their entire culture grinds them down into NPCs incapable of understanding why the rest of the world holds game patients in such low regard.
@@snintendog right? "ooo company is big, lets lay down and let them walk on us while offering them money just for accusing us of wrong doing" like what is that? I'm not just going to give a big greedy company money because they have hurt fi-fis and want to be the only big fish. that's bull
yup
True.
Even in Japan, there are quite a few people who hate Pokemon fans.
Pokemon fans are often ridiculed for being childish and are referred to as "ポケモンおじさん" or "ポケおじ".
There are several meme images that demonstrate this.
Japan, for once in your life learn that big companies are not your friend.
Even if the rumors of copying pokémon's monster designs are true that has nothing to do with their patent lawsuit.
why are everyone talking about the 2021 patent being after the palworld trailer but not talking about the fact Craftopia had most of those mechanics already, and craftopia is from 2020 - a whole year prior to the original filing and even earlier than palworld. but stating this outright would speak ill of the japanese patent office responsible for such amazing patent being approved in the first place by not doing their due diligence to check the indie scene for games using those mechanics years and even decades prior to the filing(yes I am angry at the mount patent - Ark had that in 2015 and they were accused of being a ripoff of other games).
regarding Poketpair's singular sin of saying they are an indie company - what were they the day before palworld released? it has only been a year since, and those things don't usually change so fast. they are not an industry giant, they are not a AAA studio, they are somewhere in the range of the AA studios but that is EXTREMELY recent, they were very much an indie until palworld released and such a blunder would be easily forgiven when making an announcement after you have been sued by a MEGACORP that have public adoration for a nonsense reason because they don't want competition(something anti-monopoly laws should cover, but no one ever bother with those).
No one is talking about a Fton of patents being annulled during the Chinpokomon lawsuit as well.
What class as indie is studio size, not budget and income receive. So their still class as a indie company regardless of the success of Palworld. AA studios are AAA studios that left publishers to become independent, like 10 Chambers, IO Interactive, and Embark Studios.
@Underground3 they scaled up the team after the launch of palworld, this was a natural result of their increased income from the game, which is why I think they potentially qualify as a AA by now.
Also Nintendo have patent on riding on the creature.
1. in Japan and other states you have to do patent year after you implement it first time but since Nintendo had first horse in Ocarin of Time and patent was made in 2024 it legaly do not work.
2. Bethesda had horse riding in Daggerfall in 3D space before Nintendo. So yeah, Microsoft can literally sue Nintendo for patent mechanic of the game that made one of their studios and even by person that still works at that studio (ehm Todd).
The reason they don’t bring up craftopia is because that game wasn’t a threat to Nintendo and didn’t have all the hype to steal the spotlight
A lot of the reasons to hate Pocket Pair and support Nintendo is based on lies, unverified information, or false and unclear characterization of something the CEO says. There was a huge lie about the CEO "attacking" a Palworld lookalike by Tencent, when he was actually praising it and happy there are more games like Palworld. Pocket Pair is a much friendlier company than Nintendo when it comes to derivative works, they have much more reasonable terms for fanworks as well right on their site, whereas Nintendo sends legal threats to modders and fangames.
Also it should be noted that initial statement by Nintendo against Palworld was instigated by rabid Nintendo fans spamming them about Palworld. Those people attack anything they deem "disrespectful" to Nintendo. So I highly doubt this claims of an ex-employee, who seems to be just a random person on Twitter.
Japanese are not any more well-behaved online than people in western countries. They lie, spread rumors, bully and troll just like people here in the west. And Twitter is just as much of a cesspit for that stuff too.
Yeah they did that statement just to try to get the rabid fans to stop sending them insistent notes to 'look, palworld, sue them' that I bet were raining on them constantly.
ほかのゲームの特許侵害訴訟だと訴えた側に対する否定的な意見が多いのに、ポケットペアVS任天堂になるとなぜか逆になるようです。
日本人として私はこの件を非常に恥ずかしく思います。
Sorry that you had to hear all that.
Good thing translation software has come a long way over the years, otherwise I wouldn't have known what you were talking about.
People are complaining against the makers of Palworld?
@@Cyberbrickmaster1986 I'm using google translate too.😃
@@entropyOTD Unfortunately, many people in Japan think that way.
I think the answer to this is that the Nintendo Switch accounts for more than half of Japan's gaming hardware market share.
And most people don't even think about whether Nintendo's patents are legitimate.
It is folly to pull this stunt, and the worst part is the ramifications it will have later regarding future game development should Nintendo win. The people supporting Nintendo over this are complete fools.
Waiting for nintendo to send their fraudulent patents against ARK, since there you can also release and ride creatures from a thrown object (cryopod)
they werent dumb enough to rip off pokemon in ARK
Ark system doesnt fall under this.
How long has World of Warcraft had battle pets?
@@BlackTempleGaurdianI Legit Did A Stream Playing WoW But Im Just Creating A Character To Be Able To Play The Battle Pets Portion. Even Played Pokemon Music, For Comedic Effect, While Saying/Singing “I Wanna Be The Very Best Pet Master That No One Ever Was”. I Did It As A Joke With A Friend Cuz He Did A Similar Thing, Only Playing Another Game Just Cuz It Had Mahjong In It.
@@recatwc and im sure your mother watched, and cheered you on in your cringy teenage moment
Idk how it works in Japan, but in EU the disclosure, here the Palworld announcement trailer, before the filing date of the patent will immediately invalidate any sueing rights for that patent against Palworld and in some cases completely invalidate the filing and thereby the patent.
This is NOT how it works in Japan. If anything, it's actually nastier the way they did this: by creating (using a system theoretically intended to protect inventors who might not have understood how to properly break apart their creations into individual patents) a set of "child patents" (I can't remember the proper term but that wasn't it) based on a previously filed patent (which is questionable in format but definitely filed in time), they both multiply the number of individual charges they can make at once AND put the original patent out of the jurisdiction of the legal case. This means even if some of the child patents end up being declared invalid (which isn't all that likely in the Japanese court system, where patents are actually supposed to be used a tool for punishing individuals and smaller businesses; we are here operating under the presumption the big companies who employ and provide for many citizens are thus automatically the good guys), the original patent stands and even a single subsidiary patent holding up wins the case, whereas even if somehow Pocketpair wins against all charges the original patent remains unchallenged.
I agree this case is garbage most places on the planet, but we're in Japan: first to file beats proven first to invent (because it demonstrates asking permission of the government to please be allowed to commercialize this invention). Realistically, we're probably counting on Sony's partnership to work out a deal.
Basically what will happen is palworld will be unable to be sold in japan, but everywhere else it'll be fine since the rest of the world has a more unified look at patents, while japan has different rules for them.
While I'd like for patent laws to be unified worldwide, I doubt this'll cause anything on the world stage to happen.
@@DanaOtken"This is NOT how it works in Japan. If anything... ..."
Your reply to post quote:
"Idk how it works in Japan, but in EU the disclosure, here the Palworld announcement trailer, before the filing date of the patent will immediately invalidate any sueing rights for that patent against Palworld and in some cases completely invalidate the filing and thereby the patent"
Not what he posted... He say in EU... not in Japan.
My understanding is that these recent Pokemon patents are derived from an earlier existing patents, which means that their enforceability is backdated to that earlier patent.
Nintendo have done it in a sneaky way... you should look up whats called "Divisional patents" basically a child patent of an already existing patent, they had a patent that used key words such as "pokeball" and such, so it made sense.... the Divisional patent that was released this year after pocket pair release Palworld. changed the wording and made it broad so it can be used in this way... according to certain layers you can sue based on a Divisional patent if the Parent patent was set before the precedent and offence of said patent infringement.
This also is how it works in the rest of the world not just in Japan. since the patents have been filled with the US that are vague.
Japan (and Nintendo) needs to take an L.
Too much corporate worship over there, especially in the Japanese gaming community. The company could be downright evil, with all the counter evidence provided, yet Japan courts will still side for the bigger and older company.
At best, whatever happens, Japan ruling should have no weight outside their country. We have enough problems with patent trolling, lawfare, and copyright abuse.
Nintendo doesn't own flying, mounts, ball catchers, or monsters.
sure if you can show me a monster being caught in a ball, and summoned out of a ball before Pokemon. that will be great.....no? you cant?!
you mean the game called pokemon with guns is a ripoff of POKEMON, and not some random game that doesnt exist you are imagining to make a point
Respect is Theft. I spent money with intent. Take the game private or take the code public.
@@MunchieLuknight lick the boot harder. And if you want to talk about monster captures, look for shin megami tensei, since it came way before pokemon and had much of its systems copied by game freak. By your own 'tard logic, pokemon should pay the SMT guys their "fair share".
@@MunchieLuknight Dragon Quest, no?
Someone needs to tell them "Respect" doesn't pay the bills anywhere outside of their nice clean little island ... especially now that their banking scam to undercut all other interest rate for Won into US dollars has turned more rotten than week old sushi
As someone who has played pokemon from the gray brick.
and someone who greatly enjoyed palworld.
This video didn't change my opinion from the last.
I won't defend palworld, but if Nintendo's response to competitors is to scare them into shutting their doors rather than picking up their hammer and being the true master showing the start up whelps how its done, then my wallet will close to them.
Nintendo's formula is staling and drop in quality is not unnoticed. Either they need to give me something worthwhile or maybe it's just time for me to move on. I can't give my money to a company that'll strongarm companies that try to, either.
Palworld had the balls to do what Pokemon wasn't bothered to do after nearly 30 years: making a fun game.
Nintendo doesnt make Pokemon. not that smart are you?
Who says PocketPair has to operate exclusively out of Japan though??
@@MunchieLuknight And who own the Pokemon company, genius?
@@ZeroXSEED Majority share? Gamefreak
Genius
Second Majority share? Creatures Inc
Genius
oh you meant Minority share? Nintendo
and that declined more, 2 CEO's ago. That guys family has his shares. go ahead and look at the intro of Pokemon games. youll see when Nintendo was no longer in the credits, it was like 20 years ago
Really don't care how in the wrong people think Palworld is, Nintendo going after patent is an attempt to chill innovation and it will always be a net negative to gamers. Protect your copyrights all you want, but attacking game mechanics means that other games cannot evolve systems that advance game development. Imagine if ID Software patented first person shooter mechanics back in the 90s after the release of Wolfenstein.
So Nintendo going after Colopl because the company wanted to sue anyone saying they created the Digital analog system and hold the patent for it was a net negative to gamers?
You just described a company doing the exact thing I said Nintendo is doing here that is a net negative for gamers. Just because Nintendo kept a company from abusing a patent to stifle innovation does not mean they arent doing exactly that themselves right now. I dont care WHO is waving the sword, my point still stands that attacking game mechanics through patent litigation IS in fact a net negative to gamers. So your whataboutism really has no bearing on what I said. That company tried to do it then, Nintendo is doing it now. Yes, it's bad for us.
@@ninjinmugen
Nintendo has hundreds of patents and only these patent stuff are being talked now.
If it was to be negative to gamers then it would be since the 80's
But nothing was done.
If Pocketpair loses,only Pocketpair would get the bad ending,nothing would change after this 😐
Any case where a game company loses patent litigation is going to have ripples through the industry, what are you talking about? Whatever patent Nintendo is accusing them of infringing upon, should they win, will immediately cause other game developers to give a wide berth of that mechanic in future games so they don't wind up getting sued too. That's precisely what stifles innovation.
@@ninjinmugen
My guy,nothing will change,if other companies stop using a pokeball then that won't stop innovation,that would spark more innovation,since it would create a necessity for something new,which is the mother of innovation.
Btw, the "throwing a ball" patent that Nintendo filed is actually a mechanic in Pocketpair's previous game, Craftopia which was released in 2020. Its why I don't think that could be the one they're using over as they have proof they had that idea before the patent was made.
@tranquility6789 nah your wrong trashtendo dosent care they just want money poketpair are saints that's why they never patented that but trashtendo the trash patented it becasue maybe 1 day they would get competition and they did
Unfortunately, "I can prove I invented this before you patented it" is not a valid defense in Japanese patent law specifically: the legal code there is designed to protect the presumed responsibility of its government in properly reviewing new inventions that could be harmful to society, and it's expected that the person who respectfully applies for the right to commercialize the invention has priority over an inventor who doesn't do that. In most parts of the world it is presumed that there shouldn't be and won't be patents for very basic and stupid things, but it flies in Japan because it's actually expected very large companies who care for so many citizens and are presumed to be extremely socially responsible will use these patents to defend society against individuals and small businesses who are making too much money for their scale and thus can be considered antisocial.
I'm not defending this beyond saying that a society's legal code exists to protect its values... both for better and worse.
@@DanaOtken It is since they crated it and let the time to patent it go Which makes it PUBLIC DOMAIN.
@@DanaOtken Article 29 of Japanese patent law the inventor has a 1 year grace period to patent their invention and after a year is up it enters public domain so Pokémon patent an invention that was in the public domain.
@@darkroadsahead8668 Could be, and I'll admit that while I've heard a lot which implies this particular article tends to not be respected by the Japanese court system (specifically because putting things into the public domain is seen as antisocial - trying to absolve yourself of responsibility for policing how your invention gets used) I do not in fact have the decades of court precedent laid out to prove one way or the other whether this is in fact how the law is working there. In any event, I'd certainly like it if this line of argument worked.
So in short, Japanese care more about people behind game being respectful, while most Westerners just want a good and polished game regardless of who's responsible for it, right?
I think there's a number of misconceptions that Japanese fans are under about the West and their reactions to Palworld. Here's some things we believe that they might not understand.
1: We don't hate Nintendo, and generally think they make good games focused on being fun.
2: We were generally on Nintendo's side in this back when we thought that Palworld had actually copied Pokemon and that this was a Copyright/Trademark issue.
3: We don't trust Nintendo as a business because it has been seen as abusing its legal authority, and sometimes is seen as going well beyond what is legal.
4: We generally see corporations as less trustworthy than individual people, and not very trustworthy in general.
5: While you might be able to patent hardware, or in some cases, software as in the lines of code; there is generally no ability to patent mechanics over here, nor is there an acceptance that such a thing Should exist.
6: There is no culture of automatic deference over here. If you're apologizing, it is seen as you admitting fault, and thus liability. And it is also seen as an extremely dangerous thing to do so before you even know what you're apologizing for.
7: We do still see Pocket Pair as an Indie Studio.
8: We generally believe that this would be Nintendo patent trolling, and would have a negative effect on the video game industry as a whole as it stifles innovation, and may even make it nearly impossible to make a large majority of games.
If I may add: We believe that if we pay a significant amount of money for a product, it should be at least of good quality. Specifically, Scarlet and Violet released in a state that showed that Game Freak and by extension, Nintendo did not care about the quality of their product. That sort of attitude damaged the opinion westerners had of the companies.
For us, a company that cannot keep the good opinion of its customers because they deceived their customers about the product and its quality deserves to fail. We won’t keep throwing money at them hoping for better results, we will take our money to their competitors who can deliver on their promises.
In this case, it doesn’t have to be Palworld, it can be Temtem, Dragon Quest or other games like that
@@sevenember3332 I was specifically talking about Nintendo though. Because Nintendo is the one legally coming after Palworld, not Game Freak. People still love Pokemon, but are coming to dislike Game Freak because they refuse to improve. They've stagnated at best, and seem to be cutting corners which degrade their games at worst. Plus they've had a couple controversies like Dexit, wherein they not only decreased the content in their games, but clearly lied about the reasons for doing so, thus further earning the displeasure of fans. Then BDSP happened, and it was seen as a bland cashgrab which barely changed anything, including the visuals which looked worse in its adapted form, while also screwing up the pacing in a number of ways. Even PLA had performance issues and stuff. Not to mention the crazy thing of Let's Go which a lot of people despised. Not to mention the entire thing of them searching out gimmicks to use as a central focus, but continuously discarding them instead of trying to build on things that started back in gen 7(it was seen as acceptable with megas, but then it was seen as them downplaying them in gen 7 and completely discarding all previous gimmicks each generation in gen 8). So the major bugs which showed up in SV were piled onto a big stack of grievances, and we just treated them really harshly because we already have issues with them. Personally I enjoyed playing Violet, Despite all the glitches that I ran into.
Nintendo needs to take a hit. They've been content for too long and have started acting like western companies. Im not paying to play online on dogwater servers nor am i paying for this mediocre offerings they give out. the constant war against emulation and now trying to destroy another company for using something they're popular for but not invented and then having the gall to patent that shit and acting like they should own it and no one else should be allowed when theyve been making the same game for the last how many years where you catch critters, take down a team of sorts then become the champion. Screw that. Trying to bully everyone with lawyers instead of making a better product is the lowest of the low.
CEOS for alot of these indie companies are psychopaths, if what was alleged about the drawings are true I'm fine with pocketpair getting sued to the ground.
@@kavinh10
That's the thing,Pocketpair is trash,just after the whole maybe Nintendo will sue because the Pals looks like Pokémon, Pocketpair tried to go after Tencent because one of their games looks like Palworld.
What a hipocrite.
@@lordlopes2424 No they didn't you're actually just straight up lying, maliciously at that.
The CEO of Pocket Pair even praised a game Tencent made that looks like Palworld: "I'm proud that other companies want to make games like Palworld. The industry historically innovates when we borrow ideas from games we love. I'm surprised that many high-quality mobile games are already in development.”
@@lordlopes2424 yet there is no suit on Miraibo. Typical liar.
@@snintendog
Which I said TRIED,meaning something that was to happen but didn't.
Legally you should never apologize nor admit fault since that makes you open for liability especially for things you have no knowledge of (in this case undisclosed patent infringement). Unless you want to lose then yeah go ahead.
5:00 Even though it's a divisional patent, it shouldn't have been granted because the invention was already in the market (Craftopia and others) for over a year by the time of the original patent.
Lets not forget South park Annulled the OG pokeball paten in their suit on Chinpokomon. Its an illegal patent no matter what.
also Patents cannot be vague by definition. so whoever the hell pased that patent needs to be checked, maybe Nintendo be bribing them.
Also Patents do take some time to fully be published... but the one this year was extremely fast... why?
Dragon Quest 5 had that mechanic long before anybody... watch?v=XffqKUP7tCc
@@NAzo. It has to be an exact match, but yeah it existed beforehand.
12:04 This is interesting, I thought that in JP their name for fan-made Pokemon was オリポケ (oripoke, "original-Pokemon")? But this person uses フェイクモン (feikumon) instead. Sounds like they've been following the overseas Fakemon designing community for so long that they ended up adopting their term
Its how Gtranslate does it. Its all US fans Larping i bet.
You mean they have to bow their head, say sorry to nintendo and let nintendo tell gamefreak "hey, you can make the SAME format for pokemon over and over now, you don't need to adapt, we got rid of competition" and just accept that?
Sorry, I know that some think Nintendo is not in the wrong here, but this patent thing is not only just a bad move to say "i don't want competition but I don't want to work for it either" it also just feels like they did it totally out of spite no matter how much someone tries to look at it another way. Its gonna lead to gamefreak getting more and more lazy in their work cause they know they can't be touched if nintendo going to protect them even if the work is not great cause the brand will sell.
As far as the person saying they worked for palworld, force to do plagiarize work, less there like a definite proof this has happened, I won't be able to believe it. I also realize they don't seem to be small indie to some anymore, but if we gonna turn our backs on those that finally hit it big, we gonna see no growth in the industry.
Nintendo is 100% in the wrong. teh WMDs of the legal world are FLYING all over japan right now thanks to this. Patent infringment here there and everywhere. Sega konami, Bandai doesnt matter Nintendo BROKE MUTUALLY ASSURED DESTRUCTION, M.A.D.
This is a microcosm of what will happen if Nukes get used again.
Agreed, Fully.
We have to be careful on this because, if PocketPair is really THAT unpopular, it's not out of the question for ex workers to lie about them to try and recover some amount of reputation or to not become a pariah or to simply get some level of clout.
@@LordTyph That's not how Japanese people operate..
This.
I wasn't pissed at Nintendo for going in a patent court against Palworld - it's shitty, sure, but more than that, this is Nintendo arming the missiles and pointing it towards Pocketpair because they dared to be innovative. Because they've become complacent, they shut down an innovative company. Now that they have shown the missiles, who's to say they won't change their target when they see something they don't like?
This is how you kill innovation.
in regards to the Killer Parent Patent, It involves the mechanic to "Throw an item to catch a creature in an open field" here's the thing: Japan is very strict with patents: You have only one year to file a patent. However. This Game Mechanic was used by Pocketpair in craftopia and craftopia was released in 2020, but the patent was filed in 2021. Pocketpair is the original company that made this game mechanic, meaning Nintendo has no right to patent it. That means it's an illegal patent. Nintendo has a chance of not having their way in this lawsuit
I feel the Japanese audience is being extremely biased with their take as Nintendo has been their golden game dev for so long so they purposely ignore all the legal BS nintendo pursues under the guise of protecting their IPs. Personally, i think Nintendo has been historically draconian when it comes to 'protecting' their IPs and going after people, groups and even other companies that even so much as look at Nintendos IPs as inspiration is BS and is mostly done to keep potential competition at bay.
Unfortunately i dont think pocket pair stands much of a chance in this legal battle simply because Nintendo has almost endless coffers to pull from to fund a legal battle plus, as this video has clearly shown, theres a big bias in Japan against any company that goes against nintendo and since theyre both japanese companies and this will be settled in Japaanese courts, pocket pair is 100% fighting an uphill and losing battle.
Maybe if they were a western company then pocket pair would have a better shot at winning or at least getting the case thrown out but not if this is dealt with in the Japanese legal system
Japan are also coped with being rule-abiding. To them, patent abuse is not abuse, just corporate right.
Oh, absolutely. Nintendo has been rigging the game since the 80s. During the Famicom/NES days, they were forcing exclusivity deals to try and starve out any real competition, on top of pulling some McDonald's-level nonsense by making developers purchase carts directly from them by the thousands, and the publishers could only release 5 games a year (which is why brands such as Ultra showed up through shell companies so publishers could sidestep their agreements to release more games).
This sort of behavior is old hat for Big N.
Nintendo are the good guys.... They go after pirates, which hint hint... protects developers jobs and their economy. US & European people aren't quite as smart. they think piracy is okay because they made up some bs about how emulation technically can be legally if you own the game, but no one who emulates actually does own it. sooo its illegal but they pretend its legal, and thousands in gaming keep getting fired year after year but ...piracy is okay cuz cope.
Nintendo has been hiring more year over year. while companies that dont fight piracy have been having mass layoffs each year...yeah, and you wonder why college graduates in your country cannot afford houses. youll figure it out when its too late
Well hopefully Sony gives pocket pair some support since they’re another company with near bottomless coffers
@@digishade7583 One of the only times I'll hope Sony comes out on top over Nintendo.
What made me upset is that Nintendo supporter keep lambasting Palworld for pokemon ripoff design yet when confronted by the issue of patent and how it would affect other games they turn back, head in the sand and moon us.
I'm sorry if I have absolutely zero sympathy. It was not an equal court fight nor it was a good faith public argument.
its literally proven that its copied in this video. if you dont want design to be stifled, dont support games that make generic survival games like 1000000s of other games, with stolen art. thats the real destroyer of the industry. we need original games, not cheap rip offs
@@MunchieLuknight So regurgirated the same point I complained. Classic.
@@MunchieLuknight Palworld is extremely innovative. More than just survival base it combines this with much more crude version of factory network game with each facility have specific function that can be operated by friendly NPC with unique strength and weakness. Which makes people had to think on how they want their base built and optimized.
THIS is innovation. People joked about sweatshop and slavery but it is innovation.
@@MunchieLuknight no it's not lmao that series of tweets was not backed up by any real evidence. It's quite literally hearsay
@@ZeroXSEED if it was extremely innovative why did it rely on ripping off Pokemon designs? They should have let their game stand on its own, now they are tied up in a legal battle. You know why, because they wanted to get Pokemon money
I support Pocketpair because they aren't stopping me from playing Pokemon.
I oppose Nintendo, because they appear to be actively trying to stop me from playing Palworld.
I do not appreciate Nintendo's belief that they have a right to control me. I do not approve of their abuse of their customers.
To be fair, if you have to get mad at anyone, be mad at Nintendo. Game Freak has made it clear that their hands are tied, especially when it comes to fan games and roms. Nintendo and The Pokemon Company are the ones who demand things be shut down, whereas the people at GF have been pretty open that they like seeing people make things from their games and encourage people to design and program, even saying some should apply for a job with them. But again, their hands are tied. And if Nintendo or TPC go after someone, they have to go against them too.
@@dragojdan I see. I apparently know very little about Gamefreak's status under Nintendo.
It is hard to tell whats true or not nowadays since anyone can post anything online. Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see.
you think the company that made a game everyone called "Pokemon with guns" wasn't purposefully plagiarized :D
cute
@@MunchieLuknight Go away Spammer
@@snintendog aww are my facts an inconvenience to you guys circle jrk
@@snintendog says the guy that said Nintendo owns Gamefreak... tell me why Nintendo is publishing games to steam under the name Rising Star Games in your fantasy world?
ALL REVIEWS:
Mostly Positive (639)
RELEASE DATE:
Feb 6, 2017
DEVELOPER:
GAME FREAK inc.
PUBLISHER:
Rising Star Games
@@snintendog lol who is the spammer now? that thread was absolutely flooded by you with unrelated nonsense.
still waiting for you to explain how Nintendo owns 90% of Gamefreak. proof please
So, rather than smoke the disrespectful turd monkey in competition, Nintendo is just going to admit defeat and hit pocket pair with a Strategic Lawsuit Against Public Participation?
If Palworld lost this just because people in Japan do not like them (which as I know Japanese law system it can happen).
They still can just move into US or into EU and there is no way that these patents can success outside of Japan. Everything I found about that just more convincing me that Nintendo standing on the water in this and hope that PocketPair give up or lose on reputation.
The problem with Nintendos patent is that alot of other games use those same capture mechanics, not just Palworld. So if they were able to, legally, take down Palworld for that, they could, if they so chose, go after these other indie titles as well.
Monster Hunter, Ultraman, Doremon, TEMTEM, Coromon, Nexomon, CHINPOKOMON(How they lost the OG Pokeball Patent of 96)
They could not. Remember this takes place in Japan. Outside of japan the patentlaws are a bit different. So they could go and try to stop the Distribution of the games in japan but Outside of japan they have no power.
Effectively Nintendo has opened Pandora's box with this... They win the case, now they have a decision to make: go after every other game dev that infringes on the patents wasting more time and money, or, leave it with crushing palworld reducing people's opinion of them (outside of Japan) even further and become a laughing stock of a company that was threatened by a tiny company in comparison. Additionally them winning opens up another can of worms as other companies are shown they can do the same with little repercussions
People can say whatever they want. The idle fact is that Palworld is competition, and Nintendo trying to kill it is a sign of weakness and lack of faith in their own IP, even before the dirty legal tricks. The way I see it, America supports Palworld because competition is the foundation of capitalism, which is why monopolies are *ILLEGAL.* Palworld shouldn't be expected to apologize when Nintendo transparently created these patents in response to Palworld existing to retroactively punish them for daring to exist as competition, Nintendo should be apologizing to Palworld and gamers worldwide for being so offended by the idea of competition they manipulated the law to try to remove any option other than Pokemon now and forevermore.
Personally, I've been very upset with pokemon games released during the last 10 years and have been annoyed by how many times great pokemon fan projects (legal or not) have been taken down. I've been hoping for a great survival monster catcher game for so long and I am confident that no matter how much we beg and plea for Nintendo to take time and try to make such a game, they will never bother doing so because it would be too much effort for them and they already have plenty of money anyway. Nintendo as a whole has been so scummy with how they've treated their own consumers and I see it as simple as this: If they're going to treat their fans like shit, it's inevitable that they'll be abandoned. Nintendo will not care if we abandon them anyway. They'll still have plenty of money. There's no lesson for them to learn. Therefore, they're still going to be malicious anyway. I don't see Nintendo ever growing or improving, so I no longer have respect for them overall. I could not care less if Pocketpair is indie or not. I want them to grow, thrive, expand and seek wealth anyway. They made a better game. End of story.
bye felicia. fyi, palworld sold 1/4th as well as the last Pokemon with multple platforms to beat it.
@@MunchieLuknight You realize that is a very impressive number for a game without a VERY solid name backing it. It's a bit unfair going 'but it didn't sold as well as the latest game!', when you have to admit pokemon is a household name, tons of fans know it for ages, have a relationship with the brand, and all that.
@@MunchieLuknight Have you been not reading what I've been typing? I never said anything about Pokemon selling less than Palworld. If anything, what you said has just been agreeing with what I said. Pokemon is making tons of money anyway and will always sell more. I'm just sick of how shitty the games are to play now.
@@Aldenfenris it only got those numbers because it ripped of Pokemon designs. i know it, you know it, everyone knows it. They especially know it, thats why they did it. and now they are getting sued. was it worth the price? we shall see. if they had original designs it would of sold like crap
Nope, so far, all I am seeing is old man nintendo demanding an excuse to continue being lazy and not be challenged to evolve. So still feels like nintendo deliberately did it to be scummy
The Pokemon switch game are such a offense to human inteligence, their quality was so bad and overall horrible games that are not even complete, or even releases in playable form, that from a player and customer pov, Pokemon company deserves no symphaty on this
this is about Nintendo not Gamefreak. Nintendo has nothing to do with pokemon besides exclusivity, and publishing rights
@@MunchieLuknight and they refuses to fix Pokemon co problems, one being being eaten away by western investors
@@chicoazteca gamefreak is an independent studio, and majority share of Pokemon Company. they cant fix it. there were reports they yelled at them for the switches pokemon, and they were going to take them to court because people were issuing a lot of refunds
and Nintendo doesnt have western investors like Sony, MS, and Valve. they blocked Blackrock from investing.. they are literally the good guys in gaming
heartgold and soul sliver is that bad? crazy
I only got Pokemon Violet because I heard it was an improvement over Sword and Shield, so I thought it was at least decent.
Never even got to the first Gym, dropped it before then because it was just THAT dull and overly easy. Was worried about overleveling my entire team just trying to catch Pokemon. I felt punished for *doing the thing the game encourages you to do.* I wanted an experience that at least gave me something of a challenge.
I still remember going into Cynthia's battle in Gen 4, never once expecting a win since I was just doing a throwaway test battle against the League, and the whole thing was constantly on the edge, making my surprising victory by the skin of my teeth AMAZING. THAT is what you get when you have proper difficulty for your game.
I just miss stories like Black and White, which weren't afraid to play with the formula of the games a bit. Spin-offs like Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, which weren't afraid to tackle darker storylines at times, or Pokemon Colosseum/XD, which flipped things on its head while giving you a challenging set of rules to abide by (and ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING WITH DOUBLE BATTLES THAT NINTENDO INSISTS MUST BE THE ONLY COMPETITIVE MODE, I SWEAR TO GOD, STOP MAKING SINGLE BATTLE SUFFER WITH YOUR TERRIBLE FOCUS ON DOUBLE BATTLES WHEN YOU BARELY EVEN USE THEM IN THE GAMES). Or, hell, stuff like Pokemon Stadium, Hey You Pikachu, and so on.
There used to be so much more life in this franchise. There's still sparks of it left at times, Pokemon Legends Arceus shows that, but it feels just choked out.
This whole lawsuit is only teaching me that Filial Piety goes right out the window when the elders I'm supposed to respect is Nintendo, purely because of past glories.
This is a second comment for details;
IN Palworld, you have many extra steps, you attack the pal, not on turn bases, you can get attack from other pals while capturing one, you can also craft them, and these sphere are optained by mining, and improved only by having pals work at the factory to improve their quality; you also need amor, hp, and levels stats to capture the pal, and by the way, you can capture npc, and actually surprised pal has weak point where if you throw the sphere specifically at this weak point its better success.
also, you're not standing with the pal sphere, your actually constantly moving, that means there IS NO ACTUAL POSITION TAKEN TO CAPTURE, also the pal sphere isn't a technology, it's just a literal ROCK you can actually mine it and craft it.
also, your pals keep attacking the pal you're trying to capture, and the pal, can be hit by literal anything else, making your capture chance basically zero.
Also, Pokémon doesn't display color indicator or visual indicator; this is especially true with legendries and many other type of Pokémon as regardless of what health and state they are easily take massive number of balls; meaning that in reality there is no visual indicator in Pokémon causing, the literal patent to be invalid in the terms of indicator and chance.
Palworld does have an actual real percentage indicator, and a clear constant color indicator that is consistent with all pals
legally, its could be a play to use those details of that indicator against Nintendo.
PocketPair should just move to the United States
Japanese citizens look at corpos much different than the west. While no doubt there is some brand loyalty in the west, it's nothing like in Japan. In the west, corpos are mocked, but in Japan, they are unbreakably loyal to them.
I think the Japanese need to understand why we hate patting trolling. And see companies doing these things or harming the gaming industry of true innovation. Japan needs to understand each country has its own rules of patting and how to get one from that country.
also due to certain political and economic climate, much of the general public in the west is going to have a preemptive bias against large corporations in general so it's definitely not a good time for any large company to be trying to flex any legal muscles
@@gusty7153 yeah the Japanese do not care in large though, Nintendo is their baby... I just hope that Sony and Xbox outsell Nintendo and Pocketpair picks up and moves to somewhere not as anal as Japan.
Patents are a plague to gaming. May mechanics and ideas that Nintendo has used over the years weren't original to Nintendo. For example Monster Rancher (or Monster Farm in JP) came out a year before Pokemon's release, and had many similar mechanics. Dragon Quest Monsters even made it to market before Pokemon. Nintendo's cowardly patent hunger is nothing more than a way to legally stifle competition. It's embarrassing for them as a company, and regardless of how much inspiration was taken from the design of Pokemon, they are so vastly different in many significant ways, that Nintendo should spend more time refining their tired Pokemon formula, than wasting time and resources trying to quash competitors.
So yeah, I stand with PalWorld.
i'd love another shadows of war but WB has the patent on the nemesis system and their next title is some kinda weird wonder woman game stuck in development hell.
That being said sony has committed heinous anti consumer acts as well so I'm ok with whichever gets fcked
"innovation" rip off art, with generic survival building gameplay in which a new game is released every other day on pc?
that word doesnt mean what you think it does
@@MunchieLuknight But that's exactly how innovation works. You take two existing things and combine them to make something new.
Isn't that Shin Megami Tensei also has that same Mechanic that Pokemon has?
The game was released 10 years before Pokemon
Someone doesn't know about Craftopia.
Nintendo is an old Japanese Company so the people of Japan are prone to being more Biased toward Nintendo. If Nintendo wasn't a Big Japanese Company then the Japanese people would be more harsh to Nintendo. Realistically Nintendo needs to lose this Courtcase primary because with Competition Nintendo will need to Put Quality into Pokemon which has drastically gone down in Quality. It also Will make them think before trying to Kill more Monster taming Games.
Good video, but I still think Nintendo is the devil.
The alleged artist story is sad and valid, if true. Copyright could be valid to me, but game mechanic patents are diabolical.
I'm certain that the Japanese supporting Nintendo don't even realize how infamous their reputation has gone abroad. No one wants to respect a company that will sue them just for using their stuff i.e streaming or emulators
Palworld is just ARK with Pokemon style creatures instead of Dinosaurs!
The patent pictures even show dinosaurs.. soo.. are they trying to patent arks system and claim it as nintendo?
I want ark with digimon now thanks to it
"Legally speaking, i don't think that Palworld is gonna win this."
It's a true shame tho that people really seems to be easily forgetting the little detail that Pocketpair managed to sign an actual collaboration with Sony tho.
And after the disaster with Concord, they definitely aren't going to let another investment being flushed down the drain so easily because of a lawsuit from Greedtendo themselves.
Yeah, the Sony contract might make this lawsuit a lot more complicated for Nintendo.
Yeah, its probably the smartest thing Pocketpair did. Their game is on PC, Xbox, and now Playstation. The only system its not on is Switch (Fairly sure the Switch would just blow up anyway given how Scarlet/Violet runs on it).
@@paneth8466 Doesn't Palworld runs under Unreal Engine? I bet even on lower settings and reduced graphics it would STILL look better than S/V at launch.
I love Nintendo but they are still a business and not your friend. They will just as quickly screw you over if it benefits their bottom line. Pokemon has been getting by on a lot of fan good will and get by on a lot of things that would get other games criticism. I say this as a hardcore pokemon fan.
A sane comment in this day and age!? This is a rarity.
Nintendo would never make this game, they would never generally release it to non Nintendo platforms.
Honestly, this didn't 'change my opinion' about Palworld vs Pokemon so much as it changed my opinion on japanese gamers. It honestly sounds like they're drones too scared of the big companies to admit when said company is being abusive, or too enthralled to realize when that company is attacking weaker competitors. Now, to be fair, I know that not all japanese gamers are like that. Just as not all western gamers are the same either. But this sounds more like blind loyalty to an established entity and desperate clinging on to unverified claims for the sake of supporting that entity at all costs.
And yes, Pocketpair IS an indie company. Just as id Software was an indie company prior to the success of Doom. The japanese gamers are completely disregarding everything prior to the filing of Nintendo's lawsuit in claiming that Pocketpair isn't an indie company. Yes, they might not be considered one now that they've partnered with Sony following the success of Palworld, but that is an extremely recent change. They still have a very small staff, and the partnership with Sony hasn't really been established long enough for Pocketpair to really see the benefits of those new resources yet. And before someone tries to bring up the counter-point, Nintendo has never been an indie company. Nintendo started as an electronic game division of an already well established cardgame publisher. The company existed long before the success of their electronic games, and had plenty of resources to draw upon when they made the choice to develop those games. If Nintendo had failed to succeed with their electronic games, they would have continued being a cardgame publisher. Pocketpair's future hinged on the success of Palworld, and they would have continued being just a small, obscure developer if it had failed, if they had managed to remain in business at all considering the investment they put into making Palworld.
Does Japan really hate Palword, or is this a clickbait title? ~From someone who who doesn't know this guy.
It's real. Most it basically split into 1. I love nintendo (no matter how flawed) and 2. laws must be enforced (no matter how stupid)
@@ZeroXSEED Wow. Never even played Palworld, but my respect for the people of Japan has certainly sunk even lower.
@@masonnelson6710 if you support palworld you are still supporting japan... these comments are full of the dumbest people
Just pirate all nintendo games. There's no need to fund dumb lawsuits like this one
Legit all of my Pokemon games, from RGBY to USUM, are all pirated on my hacked 2DS XL. I even have Colosseum & Gale of Darkness on my homebrewed Wii and for Christmas, my family and I will buy a N64 and I'll get an EverDrive64 (or any similar cartridge) so we can play most N64 games for free.
No,Piracy is illegal and only supported by toxic people
Question when Nintendo is unable to make new games what will you pirate then?
Pirate? No, pirating is feeding the beast. Just don't play Pokemon at all. Let it fade into obscurity.
Nobody is obligated to open their wallets
Nobody has to tolerate their scumbag behavior
Nobody can stop us from turning towards the high seas
I think that innovation in art (gaming or otherwise) should rule over all other forms of laws trying to stifle it. My opinion.
I want to say that I understand and respect JP's view on Pocketpair's lawsuit but I would just be lying. The fact Pocketpair is being attacked for patent infringements without telling what patent they are breaking is just like accusing someone of committing a crime and then expect the victim to say something that could be interpreted as a crime whether it's true or false. Nintendo doesnt deserve any respect at all, not more than EA, Ubisoft or Bethesda. It is easy to claim Nintendo never attack indie company for patent infringements when there are literally no other game that has the balls to offer something that may step on Nintendo's territory. In fact if Palworld had flopped and didnt make so many sells and growth, I am 100% sure Nintendo wouldnt care at all. Right now Nintendo can just sue PocketPair over patent infringements without telling what patent is being broken and just wait until pocketpair no longer has money to invest in the lawsuit. Nintendo needs to take the L but I dont believe they will because there's nothing that cannot be solved by throwing enough money at it.
"In Japan Nintendo is seen as a good company that doesn't go after indie developers for patent infringements."
Bruh . . . That's an insane take. Nintendo is one of the most litigeous companies out there. Nintendo is just a few steps down from Disney on the evil scale.
I don't really see Palworld as a replacement for Pokemon. It's not "Pokemon done right", it's a crafty-shooty game. Different genre. It merely uses the same art style and monster capturing concept as a marketing hook. It's an intentional mockbuster, and 100% owes its success to the gameplay elements and designs it swiped from Pokemon.
I see it as proof of demand for these types of games. Next one will propably be made outside of Japan and there is very little they can do about it then.
@@DarkZodiacZZ But which type? Creature collector, or "Minecraft with AKs"? I feel like the latter genre is already oversaturated.
Nah... If only designs and the capturing was good, Palworld would not have become so big.
Nintendo trying to be the next Disney. Become too big to fail, too powerful to fight. Disney will not realize their fallacy before it does unrecoverable harm. Will Nintendo follow suit?
Our governor (DeSantis) has been paddling them, they lost A LOT because of him.
Just that is enough for me to vote for him every year.
you know, maybe nintendo should try suing disney too, since epic mickey uses some similar mechanics to super mario sunshine
a magic paintbrush for example and using liquids to clear obstacles as another example
That makes zero sense. Epic Mickey was a nintendo exclusive title for the Wii.
I love the japanese but when they get all uppity about intellectual property that love completely evaporates
Well, such patents can be legalized in Japan because laws regarding patents are more lenient than in America. In America, to get a patent approved, it has to be distinct. What Nintendo were trying to patent, however, was extremely broad and, therefore, highly unlikely to be approved. In contrast, the Nemesis System from Shadow of Mordor, while did have similar counterparts mechanically wise, was distinct enough from its counterparts that the patent could be approved.
"painting nintendo in a bad light" My "aniki" in christ, nintendo does that to themselves
Prices and practices towards fans, they are making themselves look like the bad guy, sorry jp guys, but that's been nintendo's deal for a long time now
As someone who played pokemon since the release of red/blue and played through every generation and most of the side games I must say that pokemon (main series) grew stale
Battle gyms, defeat evil team (or in most recent "evil" teams), battle the elite4, become champion.
Also: you wanna catch every pokemon and complete the pokedex? either use home on the switch to send pokemon there and then go into the mobile version to trade and then back to the switch version to take the pokemon out. Oh, you don't want to use online? well, can we interest you in the other version? oh, and maybe another switch so you can get the trade evolutions? everything full price. The problems with S/V were so many but all nintendo cared about was fixing the clone/dupe glitches.
Meanwhile Palworld is fun and the base making is fun as hell (RIP Secret base building in pokemon too - stupid statues) and i don't see Bandai getting pissed about people making digimon mods for Palworld. It's fun to dash around the world on Garurumon's back or flying around on Aquillamon's back.
yet they had to rip off pokemon just to get any attention. lets see how that works for them
Why Americans don't understand Japanese side is basically summed up to エビリディ's tweets aren't known about by Americans. Along with a significant lack of understanding of patents on the legal side. The tweets, if legitimate, are cause for the user behind the tweets to contact Nintendo and offer to testify as a witness in court. If the tweets are not legitimate, they will be taken as hearsay in court and won't hold up at all. Furthermore, I can see a loophole in the wording of patents which could give Pocketpair an edge in this case. Additionally, if エビリディ's tweets aren't legitimate, then they are grounds for defamation and Pocketpair can sue them. I also wouldn't be surprised if what they said falls under NDA as well. This could get ugly. Yikes.
The burden of proof is on エビリディ (@eb_kemo), who appears to have deleted their account. Any childish person can make up stories about a company they don't like and pretend they were employed, especially anonymous Twitter users and Nintendo fans, who are the ones that started the battle between Pocket Pair and Nintendo by spamming Nintendo's lawyers with false claims of copyright infringement.
If the tweets were legitimate why can they only be found in screenshots?? That is the behavior of cowards and fraudsters to make a bold claim and then delete it and their accounts with no explanation or apology.
I wouldn't be surprised if they were sent a Cease and Desist to remove their defamation, so they deleted everything like a coward.
They are fake It seems PP cut her within a week of being employed.
@@snintendog Good to know. Thank you for the correction.
@@snintendogI had a feeling.
It was so wordy and lengthy like spinning a story to gain sympathy points.
Instead of getting to the point.
It's practically impossible to discuss the legal merits of the case when we don't know for sure which patents are supposedly infringed upon. Yes, there is speculation and that speculation might even be correct. It certainly sounds plausible and most commenters seem convinced that's the infringement Nintendo are talking about. But Nintendo have a lot of patents, and at the moment only they know which patent, or patents, they are referring to.
And in my mind, it's still curious that they led with patent rather than copyright infringements. I'm not a lawyer, but the copyright case seems so obvious that most people would have just shrugged and said something like "play with fire, get burned". The patent infringement seems to have come out of left field, and Nintendo seem unusually shy about discussing the details. When those details do come out, it probably will involve the patent everyone is speculating on, but I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo has some additional twists that make them seem especially despicable to most people.
I don't care much for palworld and can totally believe they intentionally plagiarized pokemon designs, but allowing to patent and getting sued for implementing a mechanic as simple as monster capturing should not be a thing.
"as simple as monster capturing" not just monster capturing. capturing same designs in a ball.
you dont see them sueing anyone but the rip off company. WOW that took a lot of mental stress to figure out
@@MunchieLuknight Being more pedantic does not make it sound any better.
Protect your brand all you want but game design patents are bad, end of story.
They ripped that from Ultraman, they were not even the first to have Pokeballs. Also look up Pokemon Dragon Quest chart, their designs are just as suspiciously similar, bit go on and ask daddy Nintendo to step on your face more.
@@menosay1912 their designs and gameplay are NOTHING like dragon quest.
spoken like someone who heard that somewhere but never played the game so repeated it
@@MunchieLuknight Nintendo isn’t going for copyright infringement. Therefore the designs are unique enough that they’re not copies. Let it go the designs are not copies
I support Palworld because it is a spiritual successor to Pixelmon Mod. Developers of Pixelmon Mod combined together many little interactions with the world of Pokemon what were discarded by P.C. long ago or been only explored exclusively in Pokemon anime & manga. Not to mention Pixelmon Mod developers came up with creature capture in first/third person view all the way back in 2012, while core Pokemon games still had no 3D creatures.
I read some comments in Japanese, and some of them are very angry at Pocketpair for even calling themselves as a small company, despite getting a lot of money fro PalWorld. What these Japanese fail to understand here is that, while Pocketpair had indeed gain a lot of money with PalWorld, they are still indeed a small company by legal definition. Quick Google search says Pocketpair has 60 employees, which is 40 people lower than the entry threshold to call a company medium-sized at 100. TBH, all these hating on PalWorld is pretty typical of Japanese mentality. Anyone who rises against the norms or the established status quo are typically frowned upon. Its part of their nature, they dont like change, especially drastic ones. Why else would they be isolationists back in the age of sails, or why else would The Pokemon Company release the same game over and over again, with very little difference.
One of my primary concerns is how new developers can effectively anticipate the emergence of sub-patents, particularly in relation to the filing dates of original parent patents. It feels as though a promising idea can be overshadowed when a company retroactively files child patents to align with their interests. While I understand and respect Nintendo's right to protect their property-an approach that seems entirely reasonable-I find the perception of a system that alters its rules unpredictably to be quite unsettling. Although I am not an expert in this field, I have gained more knowledge about patents than I initially anticipated, which is a good thing. 😅
Pal World is! more like Ark. You can also train, breed, & capture 🦖🦕 in Ark using CRYOPODS. Pal World is a seamless open world with base building, survival elements, crafting, & weapons.
Nothing like Pokemon.
Unfortunately Japanese people tend to be very drone-like following whatever corporations think.
as an American, think the design of the characters being too close is a no no, like just draw something different. however, the patent infringement is bull crap. like if I make a game with a net gun that launces a capturing net that a creature has a change of breaking out of, as far as i know, that breaks the patent. if the capturing device has to be a sphere, then Pokémon could sue any fishing game that has those red and white floats that already look kind of like poke balls.
i want pocket pair to win because if they lose, it sets a precedent that any AAA company can make vague patents and use them to sue any indie dev team simply because they don't like their existence. (or they just want more money wich is more likely)
Literally most of the designs are "You can copy my homework, just change it a little"... lol
There's also been a pretty massive pile of minor properties that use the gachapon machines whose capsules look a lot like the pokeballs and similar as part of their thing with it. And those capsules are a generic design because it has to work in a lot of different types of machines.
Knowing how spiteful some Japanese can be, I would take that "employee" explanation with a grain of salt. I like both Pokemon and Palworld, but I do see TPC in the wrong simply due to how they are putting more effort into closing competition or fanworks than improving their own games.
American here, its the idea of patenting game mechanics I find to be a problem
It’s like creating an unreasonable restriction on other companies to be able to take that same idea and potentially innovate and make it better
We saw this with microsoft internet web browsers by taking other companies ideas and improving on them
We also have a couple of court cases where one company sued another over game mechanics and game play
Street fighters and asteroids
I remenber someone says that the mecanic to catch a creature in a 3d space has already made in one of the previous work of pocketpair Craftopia or something they already done the capture mecanic in 2020 before the patent was even created in 2021
All I can say is, if Palworld gets taken out, it'll probably hurt Nintendo and GameFreak in the in, considering how popular Palworld is.
And I'm all for seeing Nintendo get blasted. They've been asking for it for like over 2 decades.
Something that may not have been mentioned, Pocket Pair, the creators of Palworld, actually made the mechanics for one of the patents; specifically, the patent 7545191. They made a previous game called Craftopia. Which uses this exact same mechanic. And was released to the public in early access on Sept 4, 2020. Nintendo can lose that particular fight and should, because they patented an idea they did not create.
i myself refuse to support or buy or play anything Nintendo ever since they started being a holes...to me they take the award for worst company in the world
Mmmm they are second place Nexon is way worse
Worst? In no way are they worse than Acti-Blizz.
@@GmNdWtchr96 Acti blizz at least only do stupid shit that hurt themselves.
remember how nintendo got sued for infringing sailor moon manga
Lawsuit has been filed for several patent infringements, mechanics for throwing objects and capturing field creatures is just one patent. Lawyers have considered the mechanics of mounting, riding and dismounting as another potential patent, as well as the mechanics for the character to appear as a shadow when it is hidden behind an object. What worries me the most about these is the patent for riding because Pokemon is not the first game where you could ride a creature and hopefully it won't be the only game in the future where you can mount, ride and dismount.
1:25 palpal!!, I don't know man every game do that copy or even inspired, "hey can I copy your homework"
The Nintendo trademark of the capture mechanic reminds of Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro and the "tap" mechanic in card games and the absolute stifling that had for anything other than Magic The Gathering. Nintendo had the mechanic first, and it was always a danger when people would say "It's Pokemon with guns". Legally they are in the right, but ethically I think they need to reevaluate their position and act accordingly. I think part of it is some animosity still felt over the Nintendo/Sony fallout over the CDROM addon incident a couple decades ago. Nintendo really hasn't done anything to win over their foreign fan base, especially with their behavior in the last few years.
Personally, I consider the whole patent stuff in games as a bogus deal to start with, does the design in a game actually help anyone in the real world through enablement? Not really. Is the patent in question non-obvious? Usually not, it's often extremely obvious. Any utility it has in the game can unfortunately often not be applied to anything outside the game, so it often doesn't even qualify for that requirement either. As for whether it's a patentable subject matter, that's honestly a subjective take which more or less base itself in vanity, possessiveness, tells you more of the individual requesting the patent rather than the patent itself, so that point is probably there just for there to even to exist any reason to make a patent to start with, still, in my understanding, game patents fail most of the other requirements, which calls in question if people just make game patents for their vanity, or if patent businesses just patent stuff, because they think people are idiotic enough to think that the process itself is sane, even though they should had rejected those patents to start with.
As for art, art is by default based on something. If people aren't allowed to draw stuff based on something, then art will never come to be. The patent industry weren't made for a global society in mind, it's a business which will need to be teared down to the ground as it currently stifle creativity around the world, not fulfilling its purpose other than making money out of ideas. So what if some pals remind you of this or that, so what if the art style reminds of that or this, is it interesting for you? Buy it, if not, then don't buy it.
I hate the fact that you can patient a game mechanic at all if I am being honest. The issue here that I do not think the Japanese are noticing is that it creates a situation where Nintendo can prevent any competition just simply by suing them if they use a patient. Ik that to the Japanese Nintendo is king and is looked up too but at the same time there needs to be something put in place like a law that would prevent a company no matter how good it appears from preventing another company from using an idea if the use is not for a evil reason. Like ok palworld messed up and as much as I like the game I am willing to state that it will get at least some punishments however what if it was another company simply creating a game that gets really popular. Will Nintendo let it go if there was no intention of copying or will they bring the hammer just to keep pokemon king. Things to consider.
Not sure if anyone's mentioned this, but regarding the capture patent, it hopefully wouldn't hold up as Pocketpair has an older game, Craftopia, that uses a heavily similar and less refined version of the same system. In fact, a lot of mechanics in Palworld are likely cleaned up and refined versions of mechanics in that older game, which its sales helped fund Palworld in the first place, over several years of availability. Unfortunately, I have no idea if Japanese patent law cares actual release date of games with the mechanics or just the date of patent filing, and we'll see what happens, but I do feel it's just downright wrong what Nintendo is doing to silence competition.
It seems like everyone is forgetting about pocketpear's craftopia which has those same mechanics.
Honestly, the JP base sounds more like Nintendo fanboys.
If that tweet was real from the artist, then f pocket pair CEO and he better compensate the artist for the hard work.
If that artist is fake, f to him and he has to apologize for his lies.
On a slightly unrelated topic: Japanese bullying (such as in schools) tends to be more vicious than the west due to the herd mentality of the culture and the major psychological harm done to its victims, as opposed to just physical.
I mean their workplace culture is just as ass, their sexual assault culture and many other aspects. people always say Japan is living in the future, but their Morals and values are sometimes quite far behind... not for everyone but very traditionalist and not in good ways.
4:56 sounds like every fishing game I've ever played. lol
The fact that Pocketpair founders were making fun of Nintendo in tweets, would absolutely qualify their Motives for parody law here in America and in most other western regions where such a thing has massive legal protections
If nintendo fought in regards to the designs, I can understand but they didn't and fought for the capture mechanics. Said mechanics has been around since the start of pokemon in 1996. Japan patent expire in 20 years. Was there patent for it in 1996? I would think so. Then, is this a patent specifically for 3D games? If so, should they be allowed to apply a new one when the only difference is the added visual change? A throwing mechanic in 3D space doesn't sound patentable to me.
The OG Patent in 96 was annulled in the Southpark Lawsuit. This is a tripple wammy of Patent Fraud on Nintendo's Part. No matter what angle you aproah it i can claim Patent Fraud and Slapp Suit
Monster capture mechanics predate Pokemon.
Got it so as a Indie dev if I ever release a monster catcher game that people will compare to pokemon regardless, do not release in Japan cause they all sleep with their version of p-diddy being Nintendo
You should investigate Sony vs Nintendo instead and you'll see all of these in a different light.
The only problem is if that was the actual artist at the end, because that’s a sad story…
The only point against me siding with Palworld is the developer's tweets. However, as you said, there is no evidence the individual works there or for anything in the tweets. Hard to accept statements without evidence on a site that financially incentivizes people to be controversial.
There is a different in the capturing mechanic one only shakes several times, and the other shows a percentage and moves to the side! It is similar but not the same!
Because of this we are boycotting Nintendo in india.
Good hopefully when a nation of over a billion people stop giving draconian companies whos only goal is to monopolize game genres while stagnating any kind of evolution in game design (by patenting game mechanics which is complete BS imo) their money then maybe it'll have some sort of effect (I doubt it but one can hope)
Good luck loser
the country no one takes seriously? the country if we hear your accent we immediately hang up because its a scammer accent? the country with the most malnourishment and rapes in the world?
BYE
@@rayman17420 true since the quality on new pokemon games on launch is BS take scarlet and violet its a buggy mess when it came out, as palworld is smooth gameplay and despite having a few bugs the quality outweighs its downsides, Nintendo Bias needs to be warned that the rest of the world is watching your every move and they can crumple an empire with a press of a button
Good, please do man
Mentality of corporate drone wage slaves is strong in Japan, apparently.
So is anyone going to address that the dates of the trailer and the patent filing dates line up perfectly with malicious intent to financially and legally hurt Palworld? They literally saw the trailer and said to themselves they need to get the patent so they can later sue. This is premeditated and their case should be thrown out. They are putting themselves in a position to deliberately sue. For that I think they should give the victory to Pocketpair.
Maybe there is a general culture aspect to patents as well. In the US we had that time when Apple sued Samsung over a "rounded corners" patent for phones and stories of patent trolls who exist to do nothing but collect patents to shake people down for money, like what happened with NewEgg. As a result patents have gotten a pretty bad reputation here. I'm not sure if there has been anything similar in Japan.
Sorry Japanese community as much as i respect yall culture and everything i cant agree with yall opinin's on palworld being wrong. Even with this extra bit it doesnt change my view and in fact it only makes me want side with palworld even more and i still feel palworld is innocent and doesnt deserve the lawsuit it's getting.
Pocket Pair created the mechanic they are being sued over before Nintendo patented it, the game they first implemented it in was Craftopia long before the Patent for Arceus and they just copied it over from Craftopia into Palworld
Respect is held high in Japan, until it about Companies and Fanboys;
-Even monkey throw round aimed stones, to knock down and capture fruits; and that basically a grass type Pokémon if you put the math; and other animals launch stuff to capture or hinder other animals and fruits and also do fishing, even riding.
-Patents on basic survival and hunting mechanics, a literal disrespect to life itself