Lovely machine. That subscription offer is bloody awesome. Have to say I'm really tempted by it even though I'm content with my current espresso setup. If you're just beginning you can't really go wrong with the subscription offer, wish it had been on offer a few years back.
Really is, if I was just getting into it now no doubt I'd go for this rather than trying to scrape cash together for a low cost setup. I started out with an old used Gaggia classic and a manual grinder attached to a cordless drill, no doubt my learning curve would have been shorter if it didn't have to include learn my way around the quirks of my setup at the same time. Ta, Kev.
G'day Kev, all things being equal, will the Rocket produce a better extraction than a Breville BES920? I have had my Breville since that upgraded model was first released and has served me fine. I even did the "slayer mod" to it last year (when I replaced the O-rings also) and that has come in handy now and then when I missed the optimum grind size. A shiny Italian model will always have its attraction, but if it gives no added benefit from what I currently have I see no need to spend more just for the "bling". Thanks. Love your content. 👍
G'day, and thanks for the kind words 😎. I wouldn't say this would produce better extraction than the Sage/Breville Dual Boiler. They're both very capable machines, but very different. The DB has more ability to finely tune the brew temp, in 1C increments, and the slayer mod gives you similar results to modding the TCA with a flow paddle. I think some people would prefer the look of the TCA over the DB, it is a thing of beauty. Also I think generally speaking, the traditional machine grade machines like this cost more, they're likely to last longer too. The DB can be maintained and kept working for years (as my beat up recons can attest to), but I'd expect to see a higher % of machines like the Appartamento going strong after the 10+ years mark (if looked after) than machines like the DB that have been built to focus more on performance and value for money. Ta, Kev.
No where in the Rocket literature or their website do they claim this machine has a PID...they probably added programming to control the PStats settings. Also this machine doesn't have thermostats to control the boiler temperature. Temperature is adjusted via pressure control.
Thanks for the info... Been watching a lot of these u2b videos trying to determine what I should buy... Problem is I still can't decide... Breville quick heating and features or the more prosumer types with better manageability/flexibility ... newbie here to the espresso world so not even sure how much difference my taste buds will be able to discern and don't want to spend high dollars for low functional quality or noticeably poorer taste profiles. Is there a system that has fast heat up times, functionally accurate temp and pressure gauges, consistent flow without having to surf, great frothing and reasonable budget ($1600 US or less)? Thanks for your time on these videos, everyone I watch get's me that much closer to a purchase... so I hope ;-). The Rocket is just too long a heat up time but sounded pretty good.
@Coffee_Kev how does it compare to the Sage Bambino Plus? Is it worth the upgrade or is the difference small relative to the price differential. I'm specifically talking about the quality of the shot.
It's a very different kettle of fish vs the Bambino plus. If we're purely talking about shot quality, it really depends, on what grinder you'd be pairing with both & the beans you'd be using. The Bambino & Bambino Plus are amazing little machines for the price, and they're remarkably low on quirks that would impact on espresso quality, for machines at that kind of money (the only one quirk really being the fixed 93C brew temp, meaning they're only really geared up for more traditional espresso roasts), so in this case without a need to up the brew temp, and using the same grinder, you really should be able to get just as well dialled in with both, for very similar shot quality. Ta, Kev.
@@Coffee_Kev Thanks for spending the time to wrote up this response Kev. Its really insightful. Would you say the same for something like the Lelit Bianca V3 vs the Sage Bambino Plus? I upgrade to the Timemore Sculptor 64s last year. I'm also now using a blind shaker and slow feeding my beans (it makes an unbelievable difference). So I'm wondering where to go next. I kind of feel that any other change is going to be pretty small even if I spend £2000 on a Bianca V3 but interested in your thoughts.
To be fair, any machine like this (dB or HX with stable group temp, heat control, powerful steam) paired with a capable grinder with stepless adjustment, is going to be a pretty big upgrade. Barista pro is ace for what it is, but a (relatively low cost ) integrated grinder machine is always going to be a compromise. I'm actually using a pro now in our band's rehearsal studio (I play drums) and it's convenient, but honestly in terms of achieving consistently good espresso and milk texture, I'd much prefer to be using a machine like the Appartamento. Once you decide on a set up of this type, there is a lot of choice, Lelit, ECM, Profitec & various others, but this fuel club subscription plan I think will make the decision a simple one for a lot of people. Ta, Kev.
@@Coffee_Kev thanks Kev, appreciate that. I have a DF54 arriving this week actually so that should be a good start to pair with the appartamento? I mostly use medium roast beans and can find a lot of inconsistency with the barista pro, like you say. Glad to hear this would be a good upgrade! Would be nice to experiement with lighter roasts too. Ps a coffee RUclipsr and a drummer in a band, you’re living the dream! Cheers
Dual boiler is ace too, depends on the user. If I was focusing on performance, and particularly on using a wide range of roast profiles, the dual boiler has more temperature precision. Db also has more tech, auto on scheduling, volumetric or timed shot buttons, ready to use in 5-10 mins. But the Appartamento is more of a machine. It's not really a straight comparison, they're such different animals. I can appreciate both, and I find both really enjoyable to use, but for different reasons. The great news is that in good condition, espresso machines hold their value pretty well. If you're not sure, sod it, go for one, if you think you made a mistake sell it and go for the other. Just keep in mind though that without a capable grinder the choice of espresso machine makes little difference 👍
@@Coffee_Kev Thanks. Very useful info. The Rocket subscription is an intriguing option. Was going to hold out for the DF54 and commit to the dual boiler. Now I've got this to consider. 👍🏼
The biggest problem with this machine is the way they integrated the PID. It should've been a simple button like MaraX, or Profetic pro 400, not pull brew leveler half way up count the red flashes 3 for this temp 4 for that temp ect. Also since there is no button once you get through the pain of setting the temperature. You have to remember the temp you set it at, since there's no visual indication. Or you can go through the whole process again, or write it down like why? That's unnecessary and complicated for no reason, whoever designed the PID on that machine should be fired and the one that approved it.
Yeah they could have hidden a physical controller behind the drip tray as they have with some of the others, although to be honest once you've done it a couple of times it's a doddle, to either change or to just check what it's at. It sounds complex but it's really not once you've done it once or twice, but yeah a physical PID controller hidden behind the drip tray may have been a more straightforward solution. Ta, Kev
So they've added a PID AND and increased the price by £300 odd to make it compete with their own £1600-ish Mozzafiato PID machine interesting idea Rocket....🤔. I'm not saying she's not a beaut tho but there are a lot of other good PID HX machines at this price point and much lower, even dual boilers too. The purchase arrangements are rather interesting mind.
It's a bit more than just a PID for the extra £300 tho. Stainless steel boiler instead of copper on the old model. Anti corrosion plated parts. The boiler also has a thermal insultated jacket on it now (the old copper one didn't have any insulating) Grouphead redesign. Single piece chassis compared to the 2 two piece of the old one that had a habit of bending in transit. Larger drip tray. Soft touch knobs, improved portafilter design. plus multiple other cosmetic improvements. Also comes set to 9 bar as standard now unlike the old model set at 12bar. I get your point but there are enough improvements to justify the price difference IMO.
Hmm yes I appreciate that BUT I beg to differ on the word 'improvements'. Other than say the boiler material, insulation, anti corrosion etc these are upgrades one might be expected to pay more for which are different from the 'design' improvements of say the chassis, drip tray and cosmetic tinkering which just brings it in line with competition. It is quite an old design now and refresh was badly overdue. Changing existing features shouldn't really add significantly to the price as opposed to 'additional features' like the PID + SS boiler etc. I still think its a hard sell to add so much cost for so little additional features. The TCA sits in a difficult price point for me , its an expensive HX machine (with its known temp fluctuations) with few features. And is knocking on the door or Dual boiler/PID/Flow control machines like the Lelit Bianca. Nearer its original price it would be a very temping buy but adding so much extra cost for so few 'Additional features I think it's going to be a hard sell. But like always that's my opinion only and she is a real looker but for me its more style over substance for the TCA at this price. Of course each to their own tho...
For more on the £50 subscription deal from Fuel Club, see: coffeeblog.co.uk/fuel-club-review
Lovely machine. That subscription offer is bloody awesome. Have to say I'm really tempted by it even though I'm content with my current espresso setup. If you're just beginning you can't really go wrong with the subscription offer, wish it had been on offer a few years back.
Really is, if I was just getting into it now no doubt I'd go for this rather than trying to scrape cash together for a low cost setup. I started out with an old used Gaggia classic and a manual grinder attached to a cordless drill, no doubt my learning curve would have been shorter if it didn't have to include learn my way around the quirks of my setup at the same time.
Ta, Kev.
Very tempted to take this on and retire my GCP - just need to get my other half to agree to the bigger footprint!
I love your reviews, would you be able to make one for the "Stone Espresso" please? It's a new brand from Rocket Espresso
Great! i need this ... Interestingly, this new product is cheap in Turkey.
Ooh, how much is it there, out of interest? Ta
@@Coffee_Kev 52.000₺ Turkish Lira Not too high price for this product
I have the Rocket Mozzafiato. Now the Apparramento has a PID, they're very similar.
Yeah very similar
@@Coffee_Kev Oh well, I will console myself with a rotary pump.😂
@@FatNorthernBigotthe even more expensive Mozza Type R not the almost price comparable Type V of course
@@paolocoletti3424 Yes, I have the type R. I have to say, with the rental scheme, I wish I'd waited and maybe put up with a vibratory pump 🤔
G'day Kev, all things being equal, will the Rocket produce a better extraction than a Breville BES920? I have had my Breville since that upgraded model was first released and has served me fine. I even did the "slayer mod" to it last year (when I replaced the O-rings also) and that has come in handy now and then when I missed the optimum grind size. A shiny Italian model will always have its attraction, but if it gives no added benefit from what I currently have I see no need to spend more just for the "bling". Thanks. Love your content. 👍
G'day, and thanks for the kind words 😎. I wouldn't say this would produce better extraction than the Sage/Breville Dual Boiler. They're both very capable machines, but very different.
The DB has more ability to finely tune the brew temp, in 1C increments, and the slayer mod gives you similar results to modding the TCA with a flow paddle.
I think some people would prefer the look of the TCA over the DB, it is a thing of beauty.
Also I think generally speaking, the traditional machine grade machines like this cost more, they're likely to last longer too. The DB can be maintained and kept working for years (as my beat up recons can attest to), but I'd expect to see a higher % of machines like the Appartamento going strong after the 10+ years mark (if looked after) than machines like the DB that have been built to focus more on performance and value for money.
Ta, Kev.
This business model sounds excellent for owning proper coffee machines. Be nice to have it in NZ? Rocket?
No where in the Rocket literature or their website do they claim this machine has a PID...they probably added programming to control the PStats settings. Also this machine doesn't have thermostats to control the boiler temperature.
Temperature is adjusted via pressure control.
Dang. Kinda wishing this subscription thing was available in the US (still not sure I could justify it but it'd be nice).
Yeah does seem a like a mega idea, hopefully it'll catch on with other countries and other brands
And with other brands. Then you could try before you buy.
Hi Kev,
Will you be doing a full review of the Faustino grinder?
Also, when you say this is new, is it the 2022 3.1 model or newer still?
Thanks for the info... Been watching a lot of these u2b videos trying to determine what I should buy... Problem is I still can't decide... Breville quick heating and features or the more prosumer types with better manageability/flexibility ... newbie here to the espresso world so not even sure how much difference my taste buds will be able to discern and don't want to spend high dollars for low functional quality or noticeably poorer taste profiles. Is there a system that has fast heat up times, functionally accurate temp and pressure gauges, consistent flow without having to surf, great frothing and reasonable budget ($1600 US or less)? Thanks for your time on these videos, everyone I watch get's me that much closer to a purchase... so I hope ;-). The Rocket is just too long a heat up time but sounded pretty good.
Take a look at the Ascaso steel PID series.
@Coffee_Kev how does it compare to the Sage Bambino Plus? Is it worth the upgrade or is the difference small relative to the price differential. I'm specifically talking about the quality of the shot.
It's a very different kettle of fish vs the Bambino plus. If we're purely talking about shot quality, it really depends, on what grinder you'd be pairing with both & the beans you'd be using. The Bambino & Bambino Plus are amazing little machines for the price, and they're remarkably low on quirks that would impact on espresso quality, for machines at that kind of money (the only one quirk really being the fixed 93C brew temp, meaning they're only really geared up for more traditional espresso roasts), so in this case without a need to up the brew temp, and using the same grinder, you really should be able to get just as well dialled in with both, for very similar shot quality. Ta, Kev.
@@Coffee_Kev Thanks for spending the time to wrote up this response Kev. Its really insightful. Would you say the same for something like the Lelit Bianca V3 vs the Sage Bambino Plus? I upgrade to the Timemore Sculptor 64s last year. I'm also now using a blind shaker and slow feeding my beans (it makes an unbelievable difference). So I'm wondering where to go next. I kind of feel that any other change is going to be pretty small even if I spend £2000 on a Bianca V3 but interested in your thoughts.
Mmmm....🤔 Interesting me thinks..
Hey Kev, how much of an upgrade would this feel over a Sage Barista Pro? Really considering it with this deal. I think the HX for one!
To be fair, any machine like this (dB or HX with stable group temp, heat control, powerful steam) paired with a capable grinder with stepless adjustment, is going to be a pretty big upgrade.
Barista pro is ace for what it is, but a (relatively low cost ) integrated grinder machine is always going to be a compromise.
I'm actually using a pro now in our band's rehearsal studio (I play drums) and it's convenient, but honestly in terms of achieving consistently good espresso and milk texture, I'd much prefer to be using a machine like the Appartamento. Once you decide on a set up of this type, there is a lot of choice, Lelit, ECM, Profitec & various others, but this fuel club subscription plan I think will make the decision a simple one for a lot of people. Ta, Kev.
@@Coffee_Kev thanks Kev, appreciate that. I have a DF54 arriving this week actually so that should be a good start to pair with the appartamento? I mostly use medium roast beans and can find a lot of inconsistency with the barista pro, like you say. Glad to hear this would be a good upgrade! Would be nice to experiement with lighter roasts too.
Ps a coffee RUclipsr and a drummer in a band, you’re living the dream! Cheers
Should of integrated a shot clock.
👏👏👏👏
This, or the Sage dual boiler? 🤔
Dual boiler is ace too, depends on the user. If I was focusing on performance, and particularly on using a wide range of roast profiles, the dual boiler has more temperature precision. Db also has more tech, auto on scheduling, volumetric or timed shot buttons, ready to use in 5-10 mins. But the Appartamento is more of a machine. It's not really a straight comparison, they're such different animals. I can appreciate both, and I find both really enjoyable to use, but for different reasons. The great news is that in good condition, espresso machines hold their value pretty well. If you're not sure, sod it, go for one, if you think you made a mistake sell it and go for the other. Just keep in mind though that without a capable grinder the choice of espresso machine makes little difference 👍
@@Coffee_Kev Thanks. Very useful info. The Rocket subscription is an intriguing option. Was going to hold out for the DF54 and commit to the dual boiler. Now I've got this to consider. 👍🏼
The biggest problem with this machine is the way they integrated the PID. It should've been a simple button like MaraX, or Profetic pro 400, not pull brew leveler half way up count the red flashes 3 for this temp 4 for that temp ect. Also since there is no button once you get through the pain of setting the temperature. You have to remember the temp you set it at, since there's no visual indication. Or you can go through the whole process again, or write it down like why? That's unnecessary and complicated for no reason, whoever designed the PID on that machine should be fired and the one that approved it.
Yeah they could have hidden a physical controller behind the drip tray as they have with some of the others, although to be honest once you've done it a couple of times it's a doddle, to either change or to just check what it's at. It sounds complex but it's really not once you've done it once or twice, but yeah a physical PID controller hidden behind the drip tray may have been a more straightforward solution. Ta, Kev
So they've added a PID AND and increased the price by £300 odd to make it compete with their own £1600-ish Mozzafiato PID machine interesting idea Rocket....🤔. I'm not saying she's not a beaut tho but there are a lot of other good PID HX machines at this price point and much lower, even dual boilers too. The purchase arrangements are rather interesting mind.
It's a bit more than just a PID for the extra £300 tho. Stainless steel boiler instead of copper on the old model. Anti corrosion plated parts. The boiler also has a thermal insultated jacket on it now (the old copper one didn't have any insulating) Grouphead redesign. Single piece chassis compared to the 2 two piece of the old one that had a habit of bending in transit. Larger drip tray. Soft touch knobs, improved portafilter design. plus multiple other cosmetic improvements. Also comes set to 9 bar as standard now unlike the old model set at 12bar. I get your point but there are enough improvements to justify the price difference IMO.
Hmm yes I appreciate that BUT I beg to differ on the word 'improvements'. Other than say the boiler material, insulation, anti corrosion etc these are upgrades one might be expected to pay more for which are different from the 'design' improvements of say the chassis, drip tray and cosmetic tinkering which just brings it in line with competition. It is quite an old design now and refresh was badly overdue. Changing existing features shouldn't really add significantly to the price as opposed to 'additional features' like the PID + SS boiler etc. I still think its a hard sell to add so much cost for so little additional features. The TCA sits in a difficult price point for me , its an expensive HX machine (with its known temp fluctuations) with few features. And is knocking on the door or Dual boiler/PID/Flow control machines like the Lelit Bianca. Nearer its original price it would be a very temping buy but adding so much extra cost for so few 'Additional features I think it's going to be a hard sell. But like always that's my opinion only and she is a real looker but for me its more style over substance for the TCA at this price. Of course each to their own tho...
£69 pcm Noice!