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just got banned from Audio Science Review because of this review. I googled a Geshelli Labs amp and saw that they did a review of it. I really like their products. anyway someone in the comments was dumping on Geshelli and made a statement about "bespoke" products being useless. so I replied to him and pointed out "the error of his ways". so someone else comes at me and I see he has a post regarding "Cheap Audio Man and who would ever listen to him. Well i replied with a link to this review and stated that apparently Fosi Audio does. so the wolves came for me and this is when I realized that these are the folks that you refer to in your audiophile rants and I assume that you are mocking the guy who runs this site in your early speaker shootout videos when you put those random statues on the speakers. never really knew why you did that. now I know. 🤣 anyway, I enjoy your stuff.
Randy you are as much of a game changer as much as Fosi Audio. Fosi Audio wouldn't have listened to me but you being the voice for your community makes Fosi Audio notice that they need to adjust things. Congratulations Fosi Audio on listening and the willingness to improve your products so we can now enjoy the music.
Props to FOSI Audio for taking criticism like a business that wants to improve the products they manufacture. May have to consider the TB10D for future TV audio upgrades I recommend and install.
i just received it, 71 euros in France, this thing is incredible !! and i have an Aiyima A07, an A04, an SMSL AO200 and a IOTAVX SA3 PA3 so I can compare !! Thanks Randy
I'm so glad you came back to revisit this amp. I contemplated purchasing one during the Prime early access sale but couldn't convince myself because of your earlier review. Just pulled the trigger on one for my desktop system. Thanks!
Just pulled the trigger on this (Amazon price right now is awesome $59). I saw the original video and decided to wait; so glad I did. Excited to see how this sounds.
Christmas came early this year as I got one at that price too. I wish they'd make one with HDMI eARC or optical inputs, I had to spend an extra $13 for an adapter.
@@greatpix Hard deal to pass up for that price! (it was weird, as soon as I purchased I noticed the $20 off disappeared so maybe it was just for us "special" people). Anyway, you're right about the HDMI, it would be nice. Merry Christmas!
Honest truth...just bought this today based on your recommendation, for a garage system. It sounds really, really good on a pair of Sony SSC-55 through an IFi Zen Blue off my phone. Now my garage is rockin!
Love hearing about companies doing this, updating their products after getting feedback from their customers and even reaching out to reviewers like Randy, my first and current desktop pair dac/amp are actually from Fosi....running a Fosi Audio BT20A-S AMP and a Fosi Audio Q4 DAC and I very much like the sound, been thinking about upgrading lately to maybe an Ayima A07 and a T8 like randy recommended awhile back or even a T9, We'll see.
Picked this up for $63 on Amazon and paired it with the Jamo S803s which I found for $100. I think they went down even further to $85. Such a great time to get into audio. Thanks for the solid content man
Purchasing it tomorrow, your link, on your review. Had it as a finalist,a long with Aiyima A07 and a couple of others. Thanks for evaluating equipment retired folks can afford.
Oh my god I laughed when you mentioned Ifi as taking criticisms poorly. I was outright lied to and stone-walled by their customer service rep when I reported that my DAC was dropping out occasionally and provided all the useful diagnostic information I possibly could. All I got from their end was gaslighting and passive aggression, nothing constructive. It kills me inside when manufacturers make very good products that I happily praise to no end, only to get kicked in the teeth by their toxic customer support. Fosi Audio are chads for responding constructively and I hope nothing but the best for them.
Thank you Randy. I have the first version and only use it to have speakers on the deck. Ok for background sound. I hooked it up to the Klipsch Chorus and wasn't impressed. Never bothered again. After watching this review and making a rare impulse buy because you had me curious. Hooked them up to the Klipsch and I was floored. Compaired to vintage Carver gear (original owner) didn't sound quite as good, but $75 compaired to way more. Wow! Not even close to over a thousand dollar difference. It held it's own. Impressive. Fun to listen to. Wife out of the house so time to give it a workout. Literally knocked a picture off the wall and sound was clean. Not much impresses me. This did. Thank for your reviews.
Love Fosi! Been using the BTA20A TPA3116 with a pair of small bookshelf Klipsch for my desktop setup and it's getting louder than my room can handle. Cool to see they've made improvements.
A bit of fine tuning: The Aiyma A07 can output audio signal on the rear 3.5mm jack, but that output is not controlled by the volume control. Thus, it isn't useful for a subwoofer (unless you want to adjust the sub volume every time you change the Aiyma volume). I am using an A07 on my desk, and it says this in the manual. I have to use the speaker outputs to feed my speakers and subwoofer's hi level inputs. Incidentally, I am quite satisfied with the Ayima A07 for a near field desktop system amp. It is a tool; it just soldiers along. If I didn't already have passive speakers on the desk, I would likely have just purchased a pair of powered monitors.
I have this based on your recommendation and just use some OLD BIC Venturi 6.5" bookshelves and it's really a great little amp. Smooth, slightly warm sound and has enough headroom I don't think I have ever clipped it. Really an awesome value. Thanks again for the recommendation!
I am really happy with my Fosi Audio BT20A that I use for my bedroom. I mainly use the bluetooth and have it hooked up with a pair of Jamo S60 bookshelfs. It sounds great. The Jamos don't have a lot of bass though. Probably because its a surround speaker. But the amp is good and has a ton of power
Hey Randy! After I watched this review I ordered one of these for my garage stereo { turntable & Klipsch Kg-4 speakers. Sounded great, ordered another one for my desktop it has been turned on non-stop for about a year still clean and clear
The Aiyima A07 still rocks my world. Not letting go of that thing anytime soon. I use it with a pair of old Optimus Pro 77s and a Douk Audio P1 pre connected to my PC via USB. Works for me!
I keep saying this but the A07 is great and if you want tone controls this seems like a great option, or if you already have an A07 could always throw a preamp with tone controls at it.
Hey Randy, I bought one Fosi to power my Forte' II speakers. The tone controls really are a blessing. Added a bit of bass and the speakers woke up and now they sound better than ever. So......I bought a 2nd Fosi and now run them as mono blocks using the right chnl of each one to driver a Forte'. WOW the soundstage opened a ton; like never before. The 160 bucks I have spent on these two amps is hands down the best money I have ever spent on audio.....Thanks for the heads up on these amps.
Thank you Randy! Got one and thank God, it's the updated version! Wow.... Coming from an A07, wow.... Sounds warmer and much more open to me. Finally feeling the music, which couldn't really do with the A07. Thanks!!!
Maybe you should consider doing a brand centric video showcasing a manufacturers line, or at least several products from one source. What other good products does Fosi make?
Hey Randy, thanks for the updated review. I was on the market for a cheap desktop amp and so I just purchased it. I'll let you know if I like it once it has arrived (here in The Netherlands it takes a while to get delivered). I have no doubt it'll be an improvement over my current "NobSound" amp, though. Love your videos, keep 'm coming.
Really? Have you ordered from Sound Imports? Or Audiophonics? They sell your typical Chinese class D desktop amps. They ship in a just a few days. I live in France BTW.
Hi @cheapaudioman, it was a success! The Fosi Audio TB10D just got delivered this morning and it is truly a bang for your buck. I have it connected to a pair of Wharfedale Diamond's 11.0 and that's definitely worth it. I have them on my desktop and previously hooked them up to a Nobsound NS-01G Pro, el cheapo Ali Express amp. So you can imagine my joy when listening to the new amp for the first time. Thanks.
@@ramondelgado6778 I'm still happy and have no real complaints. The Wharfedales 11.0 make a good match with the TB10D, and it still works as new. No flimsy potentiometers or such. I would recommend to use bare wire connections with the amp's speaker binding posts instead of banana plugs. In my case they often fell out after just the slightest movement.
It was indeed the proper way for Fosi Audio to respond. Now, question: is the new TB10D worth the upgrade over their TB10A for a desktop environment (which I'm quite happy with)? Basically it's 1xTPA3255 vs 2x TPA3116 ( is it one per channel?) BTW, the TB10A is now $56 ($70 -$14 coupon) which is also a pretty good deal if you don't need tons of power (rated at 100W/8ohms)
Likely for the first gen they used pots with too high of a range for the tone controls. Props to them for taking the criticism well and actually improving. I might be interested in picking up one or two myself.
Fosi Audio customer service is just great. I bought a Q5 dac and it has some issue with the dac. I took a video and sent it to the customer service and they send me a replacement dac for free! Was shocked at the customer service.
Once again, it's a pleasure to watch your videos. I wonder if the BT30D PRO (available on Fosi website) which implements the same chips has similar sound performances ? This model's got BT, sub out for both passive/active, tone controls and low pass filter.
Picked this up today for $59 off amazon. Using it for some older Bose 301 Series III's that I've had for a few years. Putting these up for my desktop PC. Previously powered by a Pioneer VSX-D307, but looking to make the footprint of my audio equipment a little smaller on my desk. Saw the review and got this one, instead opting for a couple other Fosi's. Excited!
I bought one of these today based on your recommendation. It's a no-brainer for my bedroom. I already have an older Sonos connect ZP100 and some bookshelfs lying around, so this will be just the thing to make my bedroom sing.
Well, the unit came in and I set it up via an old Sonos ZP100 Connect through some Wharfedale Diamond III's in my bedroom, and my god... This thing sounds amazing! The amount of power on tap with the stock PSU is simply outrageous. The sound is really clean and detailed, with authoritative but not boomy bass. I am super happy with this Amp, especially for $90 Canuckistani Kopeks
Just want to respond about the TB10D. You did not oversell it, the little Fosi is everything you said it was. I went ahead and hooked it right into my main system and its driving my Wharfedale Linton's very easily and surprisingly has very ample power on tap for them, The WiiM Mini with a Cambridge Dacmagic Plus is the source. It is amazing how something so inexpensive can be so good.
I received the unit today and all I have to say is wow. I hooked it up to a Cambridge Azure 851N and Emotiva T2+ speakers. I'm a bit shocked out how well it handled all the music I threw at it. I played it for a couple of hours and it didn't even get warm with a 4 ohm load. I had it turned about a quarter of the way up and it is loud and clear, great separation and imaging. No noise during quiet passages. What would be nice on this unit is maybe another set of RCA inputs and a sub woofer out. But for $72 I'm still amazed. One thing I learned from this is to question my spending on systems that cost 20x as much and don't perform any better. It's just a basic no frills amp with no bells and whistles that sounds great. Thanks for this tip Randy.
Thanks for the recommendation, Randy. I replaced a 5-year old SMSL SA50 with this amp. My PC desktop with Behringer UMC202HD DAC and vintage ADS 300 speakers is improved in every way. The soundstage in this nearfield layout is surprisingly good. I am puzzled why the Treble knob is on the left and the Bass is on the right, never seen that in any amp/receiver I have owned in the last 50 years. But that's a minor niggle given that I'll probably set them and forget them.
I just installed this with Buchardt S400++. Caution if you use Speaker connectors with large metal barrels. The speaker jacks flex enough to short. I put a playing card as an insulator parallel to the tabletop, between top and bottom jacks.* note: metallic embossed playing cards not recommended. The fosi doesn't sound as good as my Denafrips Thallo, but is not broken in. I switched to tuneful Belden 9497 speaker cable and heard a noticeable difference in tone. The cable costs slightly more than the amp. A company called ballastshop makes custom power bricks. Recommended 36v and 8 amp power brick. I paired this with JBL 530 speakers and there was some synthesis. The highs were not as good as expensive speakers but both covered each other's weaknesses. This amp encourages spending your budget on your speakers.
Randy: So good to hear a reviewer speak well of tone controls. As you know - because of the variances in simple loud-speaker characteristics - being able to raise or attenuate the extreme ends of the sound spectrum is almost a given. The ends of the spectrum are where most speakers show their weaknesses. Having tone controls that have wide "Q" settings for under 100 hz for Bass & centered at 12khz for Treble is a BIG FREAK'N DEAL. Best wishes.
Soooo, you gave it an outstanding review, but you also get a commission if we buy it through one of your links? I don't see any concerns there whatsoever! Very nice!
You can choose whether or not to buy the product. Riddle me this… if everything I recommended was actually garbage and hundreds of people had a bad experience then how is that a smart move for my channel. Your concerns should be with channels taking payment up front and not disclosing… because then you “don’t” have a choice as the viewer
Great review and exactly what I needed. My really old (and big) amplifier is starting to warm up quite a bit even in stand by and it has to go before it sets in fire 😂 My budget is limited, I dont't require a whole lot, I want something small and I really like the way my old speakers sound. They might not be the most accurate, but I just really love them and I save money by not buying active speakers.
you should consider taking down or putting a disclaimer on your earlier review. I bought one of these online yesterday thinking it was good and stumbled onto your old review. i thought, well, just blew some money. now I see this and I think it will be good when it arrives. thanks for the updated review.
I think the TB10D is still the best of the units because of its price to performance ratio. Tone controls, 3255 chip, upgradable power supply and it’s only $55 right now….. is crazy!!!!!
Fosi probably offered two power supply options on the V3 because of this video.... so another bravo for calling out - you should be a product manager !
This is great and all but FOSI has a huge issue with their external brick power supplies. As you touched on, the amp is rated at 600W but the PSU supplied only offers 160W! Even their suggested upgrade (48v 10A) only provides 480W. Purchasing such a power supply is quite expensive, and asking a 2.1mm barrel jack to handle 600W is also problematic. With an upgraded PSU the total cost exceeds that of other amps with integrated power supplies that actually reach their stated power levels. I had a Fosi audio BT30D that I purchased and returned because of these issues.
Been looking for a 48V 10A power supply myself. Found one ($40 AliExpress) but now I wonder about perhaps introducing noise. And also what you said about the jack.
i have a couple of Fosi Audio DA2120A's for desk top use & i gotta say that they are pretty good; they cost around 120 & with a remote control + loads of connectivity too 😁 how about doing a review on that one? ✌✌
Thanks for the review I'll be adding the TB10D to my wishlist haha. Normally just the unit itself is around 54 USD in my region and on sale about 42 USD. With the 32v power supply its about 52 USD so I might get it with the 32v power supply since I don't have any adapters that high of a voltage. I was considering the Fosi TB10D, Fosi BT20A, and a bare TDA7498E board. That TDA7498E is quite cheap at around 15 USD and I've seen other reviews of it and its not bad, but I think I should go up a bit in price for a nicer to use amp. Meanwhile the BT20A is surprising since its around 50USD so I'll have to decide which to get when the time comes.
Great video Randy! Based on your comments, it sounds like you need to roll the op amps on the Aiyima A07 (which I have done) to match the Fosi TB10D, is that right? With the rolled op amps, do you like the A07 better than the stock TB10D?
I just bought this amp for $47 on black friday.... I cannot even believe what I got. Sounds amazingly good pushing the Micca MB42X on my desktop. I am actually testing out some smaller Saiyin 3.5" 2ways on amazon that were $49 with a $10 couple ($39). The Saiyin combined with this cheap amp sound pretty dang good for $90 bucks. It certainly beats all of those crappy powered gaming sound speaker systems. In fact, the size and sound is so good, that I will probably move the Miccas to home theater duty. Free up some desk space.
Howzit RANDY I'm new to the audio thing .In fact I always thought this hobby was for people with deep pockets until I found your channel. can you please recommend a Amp for my Sony sscs5 speakers.I really enjoy watching your channel. Aloha from Hawaii.
Buy both Aiyima A07 and this Fosi amp. Use the full range outs of the A07 to run into the Fosi and let that handle your highs/mid highs and let the A07 handle the low end. Best of both worlds!! Assuming you use speakers that can be bi amped.
Bear in mind that even though the TI chip may be capable of more power output, that does not mean the copper traces on the circuit board can handle the additional current. Consult the amplifier manual before attempting a larger external power supply.
ha. I don't know if this thing has a "manual" Amazon listing says it can handle it. but yeah... check it out. not like 48 volt 10amp power supplies are available at Best Buy anyway
...nor does it mean that the chip (or the case it is in) can dissipate the necessary heat for sustained periods. The power lost as heat from the TI chip will exceed 80W if the 2-channel output power goes above 550W total (into 4 Ohms). That's similar to a modern i5 desktop CPU power dissipation and we all know what those cooling systems look like.
@@gracenotes5379 don’t know what to tell you all. I’m sure it’s not going to hit 300 watts sustained. Or even 150 watts. It’s a $72 desk top amp. It sounds good. If you want more juice you can get a beefier power supply. As it is, I think the 32 volt is good enough for 98% of people and speakers out there. If you need 300 watts Fosi audio probably isn’t the company to look at. I try to keep this stuff in perspective. But if you need 300 watts probably not the amp for you
@@cheapaudioman I'm not complaining about anything - my intention is merely to help set expectations reasonably. Perhaps the TL;DNR is that the Amazon product headline that includes the 600W number is a misleading one. (It's a 600W chip, sure, but not a 600W amplifier as built.) Your mention of changing over the power supply might just have gotten some folks thinking in the wrong direction, even though I know you wouldn't want to encourage that. Peace.
How do you identify if you have the original or updated version? I have an "open box" TB10D on the way from an eBay seller, and would like to know if there's a convenient way to know.
Man, I had the opposite experience. I had a Topping power supply go south on me and I contacted Topping. I had the thing a while, so I just wanted to replace the powersupply - I didn't want to warranty it. I asked them how much it would cost, etc. They would not sell me a new power supply unless I gave them my receipt or product registration(I forget which one it was a year ago now). I told them I lost that thing a year back, and that I wanted to purchase a new power supply. They would not sell me one. We went back and forth several times, and it got more and more odd every time. At one point they accused me of not really needing a power supply and not actually owning the product. I just..I dunno what to say. I ended up selling it on without a power supply, and I won't ever buy a Topping product again. Just an odd experience.
I’ve heard about the issues with the pa5 as well. Sadly I heard about it after I already bought one. Mines is still going strong after two months and I love the way it sounds. Fingers crossed, hope it lasts a long time. Definitely a pricey little unit.
I just bought a Marantz SR7500 receiver for $100 and was suprised how lush the sound is. I like it more than my Emotiva BasX a4 although the Emotiva is probably more neutral.
@@cheapaudioman Actually, I think I jumped the gun as I don't like it more than the Emotiva. I like it as much. The Marantz has great lower end and the Emotiva has great mids and upper.
I got one with some little Klipsch bookshelf speakers to replace my buzzing mess of a computer speaker setup. Works pretty well. I feel like the right channel sort of cuts out when it's at very low volume, but I'm not sure if it's my imagination. Otherwise good performance.
Do I understand correctly that they didn't bother to change the model number? Making it IMPOSSIBLE in the future to distinguish between the two without listening to them? Three months from now the used market will be flooded with the original and no one will be able to tell the difference before committing.
This looks like a nice unit, but the SMSL AO100 is another great choice. That gives you a remote, digital volume control, digital bass and treble presets, subwoofer out, bluetooth, and about 45 wpc for 8 ohms. I love my Aiyima A07, was an early adopter for the SMSL SA50 years ago...so many good choices now for $150 or less, it's really just a question of the feature set one wants.
Because of your review I'm discussing reviewing Fosi Audio products! I'd never have heard of them or Gishelli Audio before, so thanks to you I'm about to get up close and personal with them. I think it's important to mention that journalists learn from and depend on other journalists to stay current with the field. There is always something to learn. Keep up the good work!
Due to some confusion on my part this amp arrived in the mail. Ment to purchase a DAC to run my TV through my 1000 watt Rockville receiver. Needless to say still need to purchase the DAC Rockville going into the closet for now.
I bought the Fosi Audio HD3 portable DAC/amp (also $70) a year ago and I'm really pleased with it. Unfortunately, I don't think it's available anymore.
It's not about the mistake - it's about how you put it right (mindful of a video I watched last night about a huge company who effectively ghost anyone who brings up issues with their products - not in the hi-fi world). Suppose the next question is, how can you determine you're not getting the Gen 1 unit? At least if you buy from Amazon you have good customer service / returns.
Weirdly enough I do have a Fosi Audio item, purchased a few weeks ago. An N2 portable headphone amp. Went as low as £20 / £25 on Amazon UK (OOS now) and has USB-C, 2200mAh battery. Still to test it, unfortunately, as I left it behind at home. Reviews are a bit mixed on there.
on the US amazon listing it says "updated version". I actually think they pulled the old version off of amazon in the US. I did my review on it and it only had a couple other reviews that were very negative
I looked at specs and comments and could not find info on how well this handles 6ohm .. I run an old Fosi driving a pair of KEF’s, this amp would be an upgrade.
You might like to review the Fosi Audio BT30D PRO TPA3255 Seems to be their latest greatest most connection options. $90 shipped from Fosi direct. Not available on Amazon yet, just the older non-PRO version that has 3116 chips and smaller power supply. Kudos to Fosi for ship speed too. {Rant] I ordered some Polk bookshelf speakers (in stock!) Amazon Prime on Dec 12 same day as the Fosi. Fosi came from China in 12 days to my door in USA, delivered 12/24. Amazon still has not managed to deliver the speakers 15 days later. Countless delays. Granted it's holidays but over two weeks! AZ is losing it.
Actually, $20 off coupon at AMZ. Just picked one up for $60! Great find, thank you. Can you recommend a beefier PS for this little guy that's not noisy?
@cheapaudioman HIFI noob here. Have a Yamaha RX-V777 receiver, 2 x Scandyna BigPod and 2x Scandyna The Drop; running on two zones through the receiver. I am however really annoyed at the capabilities of the Zone management on the Yamaha. Too querky. So.. I am on the lookout for a better multi room setup. I have been watching A LOT of your AMP videos, but I still don't understand HiFi 😵💫I have no idea whether these smaller D Class amps will be able to drive the speakers properly and replace the Yamaha receiver without too much of a downgrade. Do you reckon something like the TB10D or Aiyima A07 will be capable? One for each set of speakers of course, coupled with Wiim mini/pro for streaming services and multi room. Hope you'll be able to chime in. Anyway, thanks for great and entertaining content.
Hi, thank you for your honest review. For some time I'm searching for a small amp to my now old Mission m73 speakers. Can this amplifier be a good match for my speakers? Thank you and keep the videos coming.
Try the burr brown 2134-under$20 pr Warmer, richer, textured ,expressive,greater presence & scale ,no loss of detail or definition- a definite upgrade all around
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just got banned from Audio Science Review because of this review. I googled a Geshelli Labs amp and saw that they did a review of it. I really like their products. anyway someone in the comments was dumping on Geshelli and made a statement about "bespoke" products being useless. so I replied to him and pointed out "the error of his ways". so someone else comes at me and I see he has a post regarding "Cheap Audio Man and who would ever listen to him. Well i replied with a link to this review and stated that apparently Fosi Audio does. so the wolves came for me and this is when I realized that these are the folks that you refer to in your audiophile rants and I assume that you are mocking the guy who runs this site in your early speaker shootout videos when you put those random statues on the speakers. never really knew why you did that. now I know. 🤣 anyway, I enjoy your stuff.
$20 coupon now - $60 net!
Randy you are as much of a game changer as much as Fosi Audio. Fosi Audio wouldn't have listened to me but you being the voice for your community makes Fosi Audio notice that they need to adjust things. Congratulations Fosi Audio on listening and the willingness to improve your products so we can now enjoy the music.
Thanks, FOR. appreciate you
Well said!
@JohnScheppler you got some brown stuff on your nose, its a youtube channel, aint changing nothing but his income!
Props to FOSI Audio for taking criticism like a business that wants to improve the products they manufacture. May have to consider the TB10D for future TV audio upgrades I recommend and install.
It would have been nice to rev the name to ensure that new buyers are getting the good version...
@@whollymindless I've been told via email that their verified sellers only sell the revised version only now.
@@orientalcorn3536 Is the verified sellers list readily available?
It sounds like Fosi want to be around. They really care what their customers think and make the necessary improvements. Well done Fosi!
Topping and SMSL are on audio forums 24/7. They’re always listening and responding to issues. They also show graphs of actual measurements too.
i just received it, 71 euros in France, this thing is incredible !! and i have an Aiyima A07, an A04, an SMSL AO200 and a IOTAVX SA3 PA3 so I can compare !! Thanks Randy
How does it compare to your A07? Trying to decide for an office set up at low volume listening. Thank you!
your opinion? Thx
I'm so glad you came back to revisit this amp. I contemplated purchasing one during the Prime early access sale but couldn't convince myself because of your earlier review. Just pulled the trigger on one for my desktop system. Thanks!
Hope you enjoy it!
how are you liking it?
Just pulled the trigger on this (Amazon price right now is awesome $59). I saw the original video and decided to wait; so glad I did. Excited to see how this sounds.
Christmas came early this year as I got one at that price too. I wish they'd make one with HDMI eARC or optical inputs, I had to spend an extra $13 for an adapter.
@@greatpix Hard deal to pass up for that price! (it was weird, as soon as I purchased I noticed the $20 off disappeared so maybe it was just for us "special" people). Anyway, you're right about the HDMI, it would be nice. Merry Christmas!
Honest truth...just bought this today based on your recommendation, for a garage system. It sounds really, really good on a pair of Sony SSC-55 through an IFi Zen Blue off my phone. Now my garage is rockin!
Love hearing about companies doing this, updating their products after getting feedback from their customers and even reaching out to reviewers like Randy, my first and current desktop pair dac/amp are actually from Fosi....running a Fosi Audio BT20A-S AMP and a Fosi Audio Q4 DAC and I very much like the sound, been thinking about upgrading lately to maybe an Ayima A07 and a T8 like randy recommended awhile back or even a T9, We'll see.
Picked this up for $63 on Amazon and paired it with the Jamo S803s which I found for $100. I think they went down even further to $85. Such a great time to get into audio. Thanks for the solid content man
just the combination i want to make, how they sound?
Purchasing it tomorrow, your link, on your review.
Had it as a finalist,a long with Aiyima A07 and a couple of others.
Thanks for evaluating equipment retired folks can afford.
Hope you enjoy it!
Oh my god I laughed when you mentioned Ifi as taking criticisms poorly. I was outright lied to and stone-walled by their customer service rep when I reported that my DAC was dropping out occasionally and provided all the useful diagnostic information I possibly could. All I got from their end was gaslighting and passive aggression, nothing constructive. It kills me inside when manufacturers make very good products that I happily praise to no end, only to get kicked in the teeth by their toxic customer support. Fosi Audio are chads for responding constructively and I hope nothing but the best for them.
I bought a bluetooth one, similar and made bookshelf speakers for it and sent it to my sister. She gave the system ❤❤❤❤.
Nice they listened to you and changed this amp so extensively. Great work, Randy.
Very nice! Listening to the customer - is an *excellent* concept!
Thank you Randy. I have the first version and only use it to have speakers on the deck. Ok for background sound. I hooked it up to the Klipsch Chorus and wasn't impressed. Never bothered again.
After watching this review and making a rare impulse buy because you had me curious. Hooked them up to the Klipsch and I was floored. Compaired to vintage Carver gear (original owner) didn't sound quite as good, but $75 compaired to way more. Wow! Not even close to over a thousand dollar difference. It held it's own. Impressive. Fun to listen to.
Wife out of the house so time to give it a workout. Literally knocked a picture off the wall and sound was clean. Not much impresses me. This did.
Thank for your reviews.
Your content keeps getting better, its great to have honest reviews, thanks
Lol. Well thank you. You may be in the minority with that opinion. But it’s very kind of you to say
Love Fosi! Been using the BTA20A TPA3116 with a pair of small bookshelf Klipsch for my desktop setup and it's getting louder than my room can handle. Cool to see they've made improvements.
A bit of fine tuning: The Aiyma A07 can output audio signal on the rear 3.5mm jack, but that output is not controlled by the volume control. Thus, it isn't useful for a subwoofer (unless you want to adjust the sub volume every time you change the Aiyma volume).
I am using an A07 on my desk, and it says this in the manual. I have to use the speaker outputs to feed my speakers and subwoofer's hi level inputs.
Incidentally, I am quite satisfied with the Ayima A07 for a near field desktop system amp. It is a tool; it just soldiers along.
If I didn't already have passive speakers on the desk, I would likely have just purchased a pair of powered monitors.
I have this based on your recommendation and just use some OLD BIC Venturi 6.5" bookshelves and it's really a great little amp. Smooth, slightly warm sound and has enough headroom I don't think I have ever clipped it. Really an awesome value. Thanks again for the recommendation!
I am really happy with my Fosi Audio BT20A that I use for my bedroom. I mainly use the bluetooth and have it hooked up with a pair of Jamo S60 bookshelfs. It sounds great. The Jamos don't have a lot of bass though. Probably because its a surround speaker.
But the amp is good and has a ton of power
Keep ‘em honest and keep ‘em accountable to performanceS this channel does that and it only means better stuff for us.
Hey Randy! After I watched this review I ordered one of these for my garage stereo { turntable & Klipsch Kg-4 speakers. Sounded great, ordered another one for my desktop it has been turned on non-stop for about a year still clean and clear
The Aiyima A07 still rocks my world. Not letting go of that thing anytime soon. I use it with a pair of old Optimus Pro 77s and a Douk Audio P1 pre connected to my PC via USB. Works for me!
We call that, honesty, which is why we trust you and, we call them honest for caring, changing and giving it a shot with all they got. I am in.
I keep saying this but the A07 is great and if you want tone controls this seems like a great option, or if you already have an A07 could always throw a preamp with tone controls at it.
Hey Randy, I bought one Fosi to power my Forte' II speakers. The tone controls really are a blessing. Added a bit of bass and the speakers woke up and now they sound better than ever. So......I bought a 2nd Fosi and now run them as mono blocks using the right chnl of each one to driver a Forte'. WOW the soundstage opened a ton; like never before. The 160 bucks I have spent on these two amps is hands down the best money I have ever spent on audio.....Thanks for the heads up on these amps.
That’s a very gd idea buying two and using them that way hmm
Hey Jerry, I was looking at running my Forte II as well. I was wondering if you are running this amp? The updated TB10D. Thank you for your time!
@@TechKnow15 , yes. I am using two of them. I am really impressed with the performance and the soundstage is HUGE.
Just bought a Fosi Audio K5 Pro. They seem to be quickly growing up from a random Amazon brand to a serious contender. Can't wait to try it.
How is it?
Thank you Randy! Got one and thank God, it's the updated version! Wow.... Coming from an A07, wow.... Sounds warmer and much more open to me. Finally feeling the music, which couldn't really do with the A07. Thanks!!!
Such a big difference with the Aiyima? Really?
I was waiting for this comment! Thank you for helping me out!!!!
Maybe you should consider doing a brand centric video showcasing a manufacturers line, or at least several products from one source. What other good products does Fosi make?
that's a good idea. lots of these asian companies just have too many to cover. some are better than others. great idea.
Hey Randy, thanks for the updated review. I was on the market for a cheap desktop amp and so I just purchased it. I'll let you know if I like it once it has arrived (here in The Netherlands it takes a while to get delivered). I have no doubt it'll be an improvement over my current "NobSound" amp, though. Love your videos, keep 'm coming.
Really? Have you ordered from Sound Imports? Or Audiophonics? They sell your typical Chinese class D desktop amps. They ship in a just a few days. I live in France BTW.
Hi @cheapaudioman, it was a success! The Fosi Audio TB10D just got delivered this morning and it is truly a bang for your buck. I have it connected to a pair of Wharfedale Diamond's 11.0 and that's definitely worth it. I have them on my desktop and previously hooked them up to a Nobsound NS-01G Pro, el cheapo Ali Express amp. So you can imagine my joy when listening to the new amp for the first time. Thanks.
@@robvermeulenhow has the TB10D held up? Considering one for some Wharfedale Diamond 12.0 for an office system. Thank you!
@@ramondelgado6778 I'm still happy and have no real complaints. The Wharfedales 11.0 make a good match with the TB10D, and it still works as new. No flimsy potentiometers or such. I would recommend to use bare wire connections with the amp's speaker binding posts instead of banana plugs. In my case they often fell out after just the slightest movement.
@@robvermeulen Thank you so much! And happy holidays to you!!!
Hi Randy,
thank you for this video.
Besides I miss the Geshelli J2 dac in your list of recommended DACs.
best regards from Berlin, Germany
Carsten
"Not going to name any names" .... I will, Tekton
It was indeed the proper way for Fosi Audio to respond.
Now, question: is the new TB10D worth the upgrade over their TB10A for a desktop environment (which I'm quite happy with)?
Basically it's 1xTPA3255 vs 2x TPA3116 ( is it one per channel?)
BTW, the TB10A is now $56 ($70 -$14 coupon) which is also a pretty good deal if you don't need tons of power (rated at 100W/8ohms)
Likely for the first gen they used pots with too high of a range for the tone controls. Props to them for taking the criticism well and actually improving. I might be interested in picking up one or two myself.
Fosi Audio customer service is just great. I bought a Q5 dac and it has some issue with the dac. I took a video and sent it to the customer service and they send me a replacement dac for free! Was shocked at the customer service.
Once again, it's a pleasure to watch your videos. I wonder if the BT30D PRO (available on Fosi website) which implements the same chips has similar sound performances ? This model's got BT, sub out for both passive/active, tone controls and low pass filter.
yes and no, while gr11 has 0 innovation it does have rare sound signature found nowhere iirc
Reliable and Honest Review More Power to this Man. No Ghost Stories on the Amplifier review
Picked this up today for $59 off amazon. Using it for some older Bose 301 Series III's that I've had for a few years. Putting these up for my desktop PC. Previously powered by a Pioneer VSX-D307, but looking to make the footprint of my audio equipment a little smaller on my desk. Saw the review and got this one, instead opting for a couple other Fosi's. Excited!
I bought one of these today based on your recommendation. It's a no-brainer for my bedroom. I already have an older Sonos connect ZP100 and some bookshelfs lying around, so this will be just the thing to make my bedroom sing.
Well, the unit came in and I set it up via an old Sonos ZP100 Connect through some Wharfedale Diamond III's in my bedroom, and my god... This thing sounds amazing! The amount of power on tap with the stock PSU is simply outrageous. The sound is really clean and detailed, with authoritative but not boomy bass. I am super happy with this Amp, especially for $90 Canuckistani Kopeks
Just bought the Fosi TB120D and now Im deciding for Micca OoO speakers vs Micca RB42 which I saw in one of your videos. Thanks.
I bought two of the BT30D’s I like them so much.
Just want to respond about the TB10D. You did not oversell it, the little Fosi is everything you said it was. I went ahead and hooked it right into my main system and its driving my Wharfedale Linton's very easily and surprisingly has very ample power on tap for them, The WiiM Mini with a Cambridge Dacmagic Plus is the source. It is amazing how something so inexpensive can be so good.
Are you still using the TB10D on the Wharfedale Lintons? I’d love to hear your thoughts!!!! Thank you!
Just ordered mine using your link. I really don't need it but at $72 what the heck. I'll use it with a Schiit Modi 3 I have in my closet. Thanks
I received the unit today and all I have to say is wow. I hooked it up to a Cambridge Azure 851N and Emotiva T2+ speakers. I'm a bit shocked out how well it handled all the music I threw at it. I played it for a couple of hours and it didn't even get warm with a 4 ohm load. I had it turned about a quarter of the way up and it is loud and clear, great separation and imaging. No noise during quiet passages. What would be nice on this unit is maybe another set of RCA inputs and a sub woofer out. But for $72 I'm still amazed. One thing I learned from this is to question my spending on systems that cost 20x as much and don't perform any better. It's just a basic no frills amp with no bells and whistles that sounds great. Thanks for this tip Randy.
Thanks for the recommendation, Randy. I replaced a 5-year old SMSL SA50 with this amp. My PC desktop with Behringer UMC202HD DAC and vintage ADS 300 speakers is improved in every way. The soundstage in this nearfield layout is surprisingly good. I am puzzled why the Treble knob is on the left and the Bass is on the right, never seen that in any amp/receiver I have owned in the last 50 years. But that's a minor niggle given that I'll probably set them and forget them.
I just installed this with Buchardt S400++. Caution if you use Speaker connectors with large metal barrels. The speaker jacks flex enough to short. I put a playing card as an insulator parallel to the tabletop, between top and bottom jacks.* note: metallic embossed playing cards not recommended.
The fosi doesn't sound as good as my Denafrips Thallo, but is not broken in.
I switched to tuneful Belden 9497 speaker cable and heard a noticeable difference in tone. The cable costs slightly more than the amp.
A company called ballastshop makes custom power bricks. Recommended 36v and 8 amp power brick. I paired this with JBL 530 speakers and there was some synthesis. The highs were not as good as expensive speakers but both covered each other's weaknesses. This amp encourages spending your budget on your speakers.
Randy: So good to hear a reviewer speak well of tone controls. As you know - because of the variances in simple loud-speaker characteristics - being able to raise or attenuate the extreme ends of the sound spectrum is almost a given. The ends of the spectrum are where most speakers show their weaknesses. Having tone controls that have wide "Q" settings for under 100 hz for Bass & centered at 12khz for Treble is a BIG FREAK'N DEAL. Best wishes.
Soooo, you gave it an outstanding review, but you also get a commission if we buy it through one of your links? I don't see any concerns there whatsoever! Very nice!
You can choose whether or not to buy the product. Riddle me this… if everything I recommended was actually garbage and hundreds of people had a bad experience then how is that a smart move for my channel. Your concerns should be with channels taking payment up front and not disclosing… because then you “don’t” have a choice as the viewer
Great review and exactly what I needed. My really old (and big) amplifier is starting to warm up quite a bit even in stand by and it has to go before it sets in fire 😂 My budget is limited, I dont't require a whole lot, I want something small and I really like the way my old speakers sound. They might not be the most accurate, but I just really love them and I save money by not buying active speakers.
you should consider taking down or putting a disclaimer on your earlier review. I bought one of these online yesterday thinking it was good and stumbled onto your old review. i thought, well, just blew some money. now I see this and I think it will be good when it arrives. thanks for the updated review.
I guess this proves that implementation is everything. Having quality parts, doesn't necessarily mean it will sound or perform well.
I think the TB10D is still the best of the units because of its price to performance ratio. Tone controls, 3255 chip, upgradable power supply and it’s only $55 right now….. is crazy!!!!!
After buying my second one of these, I can't thank you enough.
I just got one for $60 on their black friday deal, i love it! thanks randy for finding this deal!
🤔Maybe I’ll try pairing a TB10D w/
the Elac BS41’s ..
Edit: Thanks Randy. Always enjoy your evals..😉
How did it work out?
Fosi probably offered two power supply options on the V3 because of this video.... so another bravo for calling out - you should be a product manager !
This is great and all but FOSI has a huge issue with their external brick power supplies. As you touched on, the amp is rated at 600W but the PSU supplied only offers 160W! Even their suggested upgrade (48v 10A) only provides 480W. Purchasing such a power supply is quite expensive, and asking a 2.1mm barrel jack to handle 600W is also problematic. With an upgraded PSU the total cost exceeds that of other amps with integrated power supplies that actually reach their stated power levels. I had a Fosi audio BT30D that I purchased and returned because of these issues.
Thank you for this comment. This is what I was worrying about.
Been looking for a 48V 10A power supply myself. Found one ($40 AliExpress) but now I wonder about perhaps introducing noise. And also what you said about the jack.
i have a couple of Fosi Audio DA2120A's for desk top use & i gotta say that they are pretty good; they cost around 120 & with a remote control + loads of connectivity too 😁 how about doing a review on that one? ✌✌
Love Fosi, high value - however, speaking from experience, use shielded cables.
Shielded... speaker cables or RCA? Maybe both? Just curious, as I'm adding a few of these to my own setup.
Got my coffee listening attentively Randy….
Thanks for the review I'll be adding the TB10D to my wishlist haha.
Normally just the unit itself is around 54 USD in my region and on sale about 42 USD. With the 32v power supply its about 52 USD so I might get it with the 32v power supply since I don't have any adapters that high of a voltage.
I was considering the Fosi TB10D, Fosi BT20A, and a bare TDA7498E board.
That TDA7498E is quite cheap at around 15 USD and I've seen other reviews of it and its not bad, but I think I should go up a bit in price for a nicer to use amp.
Meanwhile the BT20A is surprising since its around 50USD so I'll have to decide which to get when the time comes.
Great video Randy! Based on your comments, it sounds like you need to roll the op amps on the Aiyima A07 (which I have done) to match the Fosi TB10D, is that right? With the rolled op amps, do you like the A07 better than the stock TB10D?
I sure do miss the old rickety table and blue table cloth. How about a CAM throwback day video? 😀
I just bought this amp for $47 on black friday.... I cannot even believe what I got. Sounds amazingly good pushing the Micca MB42X on my desktop. I am actually testing out some smaller Saiyin 3.5" 2ways on amazon that were $49 with a $10 couple ($39). The Saiyin combined with this cheap amp sound pretty dang good for $90 bucks. It certainly beats all of those crappy powered gaming sound speaker systems. In fact, the size and sound is so good, that I will probably move the Miccas to home theater duty. Free up some desk space.
Howzit RANDY I'm new to the audio thing .In fact I always thought this hobby was for people with deep pockets until I found your channel. can you please recommend a Amp for my Sony sscs5 speakers.I really enjoy watching your channel. Aloha from Hawaii.
Buy both Aiyima A07 and this Fosi amp.
Use the full range outs of the A07 to run into the Fosi and let that handle your highs/mid highs and let the A07 handle the low end.
Best of both worlds!! Assuming you use speakers that can be bi amped.
Is there a visual difference, or another way to tell the upgraded from the original version?
How do i distinguish that I'm getting the 2nd gen improved version of this TB10D?
Bear in mind that even though the TI chip may be capable of more power output, that does not mean the copper traces on the circuit board can handle the additional current. Consult the amplifier manual before attempting a larger external power supply.
ha. I don't know if this thing has a "manual" Amazon listing says it can handle it. but yeah... check it out. not like 48 volt 10amp power supplies are available at Best Buy anyway
...nor does it mean that the chip (or the case it is in) can dissipate the necessary heat for sustained periods. The power lost as heat from the TI chip will exceed 80W if the 2-channel output power goes above 550W total (into 4 Ohms). That's similar to a modern i5 desktop CPU power dissipation and we all know what those cooling systems look like.
@@gracenotes5379 don’t know what to tell you all. I’m sure it’s not going to hit 300 watts sustained. Or even 150 watts. It’s a $72 desk top amp. It sounds good. If you want more juice you can get a beefier power supply. As it is, I think the 32 volt is good enough for 98% of people and speakers out there. If you need 300 watts Fosi audio probably isn’t the company to look at. I try to keep this stuff in perspective. But if you need 300 watts probably not the amp for you
@@cheapaudioman I'm not complaining about anything - my intention is merely to help set expectations reasonably. Perhaps the TL;DNR is that the Amazon product headline that includes the 600W number is a misleading one. (It's a 600W chip, sure, but not a 600W amplifier as built.) Your mention of changing over the power supply might just have gotten some folks thinking in the wrong direction, even though I know you wouldn't want to encourage that. Peace.
got my first one yesterday. Replaces a peachtree amp driving older Paradigm 10's Awesome. Already ordered another
How do you identify if you have the original or updated version?
I have an "open box" TB10D on the way from an eBay seller, and would like to know if there's a convenient way to know.
Man, I had the opposite experience. I had a Topping power supply go south on me and I contacted Topping. I had the thing a while, so I just wanted to replace the powersupply - I didn't want to warranty it. I asked them how much it would cost, etc. They would not sell me a new power supply unless I gave them my receipt or product registration(I forget which one it was a year ago now). I told them I lost that thing a year back, and that I wanted to purchase a new power supply. They would not sell me one. We went back and forth several times, and it got more and more odd every time. At one point they accused me of not really needing a power supply and not actually owning the product. I just..I dunno what to say. I ended up selling it on without a power supply, and I won't ever buy a Topping product again. Just an odd experience.
that is weird. I've heard that they've been having some reliability issues with the PA5 and even the new LA50
I’ve heard about the issues with the pa5 as well. Sadly I heard about it after I already bought one. Mines is still going strong after two months and I love the way it sounds. Fingers crossed, hope it lasts a long time. Definitely a pricey little unit.
I would love to know how to put that together with some quality $300 speakers that don’t need a sub and a worthy streaming source for my garage.
I just bought a Marantz SR7500 receiver for $100 and was suprised how lush the sound is. I like it more than my Emotiva BasX a4 although the Emotiva is probably more neutral.
yeah. those marantz are very rich sounding
@@cheapaudioman Actually, I think I jumped the gun as I don't like it more than the Emotiva. I like it as much. The Marantz has great lower end and the Emotiva has great mids and upper.
My stomach can't handle coffee but since Randy told me to drink some......I'm goin in!
I got one with some little Klipsch bookshelf speakers to replace my buzzing mess of a computer speaker setup. Works pretty well. I feel like the right channel sort of cuts out when it's at very low volume, but I'm not sure if it's my imagination. Otherwise good performance.
Really loved this video. Thanks for doing this. Some great options here!
I am really happy that Fozzie bear started this company in china, much success to him in china with this endeavour.
Sounds like a "warm and full" leaning speaker would be best with this.(?)
Do I understand correctly that they didn't bother to change the model number? Making it IMPOSSIBLE in the future to distinguish between the two without listening to them? Three months from now the used market will be flooded with the original and no one will be able to tell the difference before committing.
There's a $20 coupon right now at amazon...Picked one up for 59.99.
I’ve never found a good 48v/10a power supply. Has any one used one with a class D amp that they like?
Fosi TB10D Geshelli j2 and Wiim mini running klipsch rb5ii. Sounds pretty good.
This looks like a nice unit, but the SMSL AO100 is another great choice. That gives you a remote, digital volume control, digital bass and treble presets, subwoofer out, bluetooth, and about 45 wpc for 8 ohms. I love my Aiyima A07, was an early adopter for the SMSL SA50 years ago...so many good choices now for $150 or less, it's really just a question of the feature set one wants.
Got a FOSI ST30D (2.1 amp) with a passive sub. Fantastic sound for my workdesk.
Because of your review I'm discussing reviewing Fosi Audio products! I'd never have heard of them or Gishelli Audio before, so thanks to you I'm about to get up close and personal with them. I think it's important to mention that journalists learn from and depend on other journalists to stay current with the field. There is always something to learn. Keep up the good work!
Due to some confusion on my part this amp arrived in the mail. Ment to purchase a DAC to run my TV through my 1000 watt Rockville receiver. Needless to say still need to purchase the DAC Rockville going into the closet for now.
I actually have a fx-audio tube 03 connected to my aiyima a07 working as a preamp/ tube buffer. Now I have tone controls. 😀
I bought the Fosi Audio HD3 portable DAC/amp (also $70) a year ago and I'm really pleased with it. Unfortunately, I don't think it's available anymore.
how do we know if we buy the old or the new version if they did not change the model number ? what op-amd inside ?
They changed the power supply, the new ones on Amazon UK sell with a 24v protected supply now.
It's not about the mistake - it's about how you put it right (mindful of a video I watched last night about a huge company who effectively ghost anyone who brings up issues with their products - not in the hi-fi world).
Suppose the next question is, how can you determine you're not getting the Gen 1 unit? At least if you buy from Amazon you have good customer service / returns.
Weirdly enough I do have a Fosi Audio item, purchased a few weeks ago. An N2 portable headphone amp.
Went as low as £20 / £25 on Amazon UK (OOS now) and has USB-C, 2200mAh battery. Still to test it, unfortunately, as I left it behind at home. Reviews are a bit mixed on there.
on the US amazon listing it says "updated version". I actually think they pulled the old version off of amazon in the US. I did my review on it and it only had a couple other reviews that were very negative
@@cheapaudioman Thanks for clarifying, Randy :)
Crack it open... let's see the op amps.
Good job as always.
I looked at specs and comments and could not find info on how well this handles 6ohm .. I run an old Fosi driving a pair of KEF’s, this amp would be an upgrade.
3255 spec shows 6 ohm curves
You might like to review the Fosi Audio BT30D PRO TPA3255 Seems to be their latest greatest most connection options. $90 shipped from Fosi direct. Not available on Amazon yet, just the older non-PRO version that has 3116 chips and smaller power supply. Kudos to Fosi for ship speed too.
{Rant] I ordered some Polk bookshelf speakers (in stock!) Amazon Prime on Dec 12 same day as the Fosi. Fosi came from China in 12 days to my door in USA, delivered 12/24. Amazon still has not managed to deliver the speakers 15 days later. Countless delays. Granted it's holidays but over two weeks! AZ is losing it.
You have the BEST commercials.
Glad you think so!
Actually, $20 off coupon at AMZ. Just picked one up for $60! Great find, thank you. Can you recommend a beefier PS for this little guy that's not noisy?
@cheapaudioman HIFI noob here. Have a Yamaha RX-V777 receiver, 2 x Scandyna BigPod and 2x Scandyna The Drop; running on two zones through the receiver. I am however really annoyed at the capabilities of the Zone management on the Yamaha. Too querky.
So.. I am on the lookout for a better multi room setup.
I have been watching A LOT of your AMP videos, but I still don't understand HiFi 😵💫I have no idea whether these smaller D Class amps will be able to drive the speakers properly and replace the Yamaha receiver without too much of a downgrade.
Do you reckon something like the TB10D or Aiyima A07 will be capable? One for each set of speakers of course, coupled with Wiim mini/pro for streaming services and multi room.
Hope you'll be able to chime in.
Anyway, thanks for great and entertaining content.
Hi, thank you for your honest review. For some time I'm searching for a small amp to my now old Mission m73 speakers. Can this amplifier be a good match for my speakers? Thank you and keep the videos coming.
I do have an urge to roll the op-amps in my Aiyima A07, just for kicks. But a pair of those Sparkos cost almost double what the amp cost. 🙁
Try the burr brown 2134-under$20 pr
Warmer, richer, textured ,expressive,greater presence & scale ,no loss of detail or definition- a definite upgrade all around