Excellent work. Having spent 30-odd years in environmental protection and pollution control dealing with the industrial sized versions of these it is great to see such a clear and practical demonstration of the technology. I think I'll have a go at this myself (anything to avoid dusting). Subs +1.
Thanks. On the ones you worked with, did you have an issue with ozone production? The design of this one requires high enough voltages to produce ozone and so is not a good idea to use it in an unventilated place or for too long. And welcome to the channel.
@@RimstarOrg You're welcome. Yes, they were known to produce ozone but at the time ground level ozone wasn't as much a concern as the fine particulates the EPs arrested (in fact it still isn't - atmospheric ultra-fines are a major killer). In an enclosed space it is an entirely different matter and you're quite right, ozone there is a real risk. In an enclosed space it would be best to strip the ozone out before it leaves the stack. Thanks for the welcome - very greatly appreciated.
I made mine using a concave tea strainer for the metal mesh HV-, some steel wool for HV+ and a DC 400KV Boost Step-up Power Module High-voltage Generator i got from ebay for a high voltage supply source. First I tried using aluminium foil as you used for HV+, but the apparatus refused to work no matter what I tried. I was frustrated and ready to give up when I decided to switch aluminium foil to steel wool. Luckily, it worked like a charm! I was amazed by the results! Lesson learned : never give up! RimstarOrg keep up the good work! I love your videos!
Thanks! And cool! Glad to hear it worked! And I've been there many times myself. Often if it doesn't work then just step away and come back to it later. Maybe it worked because your input voltage was lower than you thought, or the PSU couldn't keep up with enough current losses to keep the voltage up. That would mean the foil would be too rounded and needed a sharper edge. The sharp points of the steel wool, or the thin wool wires may have provided that sharped edge. Something like that. At least it worked! Yay!
Cleaning up smoke using a homemade smoke precipitator aka electrostatic precipitator. It does produce ozone though. But this is what ones on the market do. Someday I'll try it on a car exhaust.
varun rao Glad you liked it. The smoke particles end up coating the aluminum foil cylinder. I think it would still work if I covered the cylinder with paper towel and it coated the paper towel instead. I've done so many interesting projects with this high voltage power supply that it's worth looking into making one. In case you haven't seen it, here's my video about making it ruclips.net/video/GEuK1OdYxHk/видео.html
varun rao I powered my smoke precipitator using my commercially made 27cm diameter disks Wimshurst machine last night. It got rid of almost all the smoke, but that's close enough that I'm sure with some tweaking of the mesh or diameter or ... it could get rid of all of it. A Wimshurst machine is much lower current than the power supply in the video so that opens it up to many more power sources. Hopefully that helps.
Watching this video reminded me of my uncle Bob Odell. He would patiently teach us all kinds of engineering using simple examples. I thoroughly enjoyed this. Thandk you!!
It's DC but it's 21,000 volts DC. So you can't use batteries or a normal power supply. See my follow-up video where I measure it and test some other power supply options ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html
@@RimstarOrg good day. Will a supply unit work that supplies the high voltage for an ozone generator that uses these blue ceramic plates that produce a blue corona for a precipitator?
I would love to install a larger version of this technology on the exhaust system of my gasoline/fossil fuel/petrol powered automobile. and furthermore, if this technology could entirely replace the present catalytic converters in the exhaust system, this could contribute to highly reduced automobile pricing, because catalytic converters require very expensive materials which also have a limited lifespan. this is wonderful tech, indeed! thank you for making this wonderful video!
Theoretically one can be made that size. Electrostatic precipitators are used in industry for all sorts of things and are much, much larger. Electrostatic air cleaners are available that are around window size. I don't know how well it would work with pollen. Interesting question. My guess is it'd work but I don't know for sure.
I didn't have a cigarette to try so I can't say for sure. Note that with this design, the voltage required is around 21,000 volts. At that voltage, it also produces ozone, which is hazardous to your health in large quantities.
+ganesh br I didn't measure the voltage but you need high voltage, somewhere around 20,000 volts. PS. You don't have a Reply button for your comment. You need to change the Google+ setting "Who can reply to you public posts" to "Anyone".
+sciencenerds Theoretically I guess you could but the soldering would have to be done pretty close to the inlet since the suction isn't that strong. Much simpler to use a fan and a hose I think.
I have a question. Can you help? I want to make a project about your work. But I don't know how to do it like that Because I tried to do it with no results I want you to help
You'll have to describe what you tried before I can help. Note that this design needs around 21,000 volts. I also have a follow-up video which may help ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html
Aishwarya Aishu No, the voltage and current from that Wimshurst machine is too small. It just barely works with my commercially made 27cm disk Wimshurst machine.
Aishwarya Aishu Make the Wimshurst machine with larger diameter disks, minimum 27cm diameter. Every other alternative is much harder involving making or buying a high voltage DC power supply that can supply high voltage but also a decent amount of current.
i need your help please !!! in the video at 2:13 , you say that mesh is connected to ground ? could pls give some explanation and some information on that how the wire ( from mesh ) is connected to the earth ground
Oh, and the explanation is because the high voltage terminal of my high voltage power supply is relative to ground. Basically, my power supply has two terminals, high voltage positive and ground. In fact, I may not have use the ground plug plugged into the wall trick that I talk about in my crystal radio video. I may have connected it to the ground terminal of my high voltage power supply. However, if you're using a Wimshurst machine to power it like I did in my follow-up video ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html then it has just two high voltage terminals and no ground. So it depends on your power supply.
I didn't measure the voltage. Based on my lifter voltage measurements I'd estimate in the 20kV range. The power supply is putting out DC, though since it's using a Cockcroft-Walton voltage multiplier after the flyback to produce the DC, I imagine there's plenty of ripple on top of the DC. That's typical of multipliers when there's leakage, and there's plenty of leakage here! A flyback puts out AC, so I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work. The ionized particles would just keep moving back and forth in the air stream, likely never getting to the cylinder. You can see the power supply details in my "How to Make 30kV High Voltage DC Power Supply..." video ruclips.net/video/GEuK1OdYxHk/видео.html
2:15 : Dear friend, sorry for my English. Could you explain : if the mesh is grounded, how it is possible for smoke particles to get the negative charge while going through the mesh?
Good question. Positive and negative charges attract each other. The positive charge on the foil attacts negative charges from the ground, through the ground wire to the mesh. So the mesh becomes negatively charged.
I don't know if it would work for lead casting fumes. I really don't know what fumes it would work with except that it works with carbon/soot. This technique is used a lot in the manufacturing industry though so I'm sure it's not limited to soot.
For the diameter of the foil, I just went by the diameter of the plastic jar. It doesn't really matter. For the roundness of the bottom edge of the foil, I just guessed what might be good. I didn't want it to be sharp. The height of the foil can be anything over an inch or so. I determined that because that's around the height of the foil for a lifter which uses a similar principle in order to fly (here's my video on making a lifter ruclips.net/video/vzZy1Aqleno/видео.html). For the distance between the wire mesh and aluminum foil, you want it to be as close as you can get it without causing sparks between the foil and the mesh. I show testing that distance in this follow-up video ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html.
+kmidgley Good question. But now that you ask, I don't recall ever smelling the scent of these particular incense sticks. I bought them purely because they put out a lot of smoke for these smoke tests. I did, however, smell the ozone produced by the corona in the gap between the mesh and the cylinder, so that leads me even more to think that these sticks don't smell. Or maybe my nose isn't very sensitive to their scent.
Sir, In the page where you explained how to make a Wimshurst machine ,one of your answers to the questions stated that it had no practical use ,but here you have stated that you used it to power the electrostatic precipitator can you explain how ?
I haven't tried a Van de Graaff, but it would depend on the the machine too. It would probably have the required voltage, but it's the current that it may be lacking in (for the ions). With a Van de Graaff, the wider the belt and the faster the belt moves, the higher the current. I doubt very much that my soda can Van de Graff with its rubber band belt would have enough current so I've never tried it. I did get it working with a Wimshurst machine though, one with big disks. See this video here for my experiments and voltage measurements ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html. Regarding moving the mesh and aluminum cylinder farther apart, you'd want to do the opposite. The closer together they are the lower the required voltage (the required current isn't affected by the spacing). I also experiment with that in the video I linked to.
Very interesting! My first thought was whether a wood stove could be rigged with a steam turbine to produce enough electricity to scrub its own exhaust whilst still heating a room. The question of cost vs benefit could be a major one, in such a trivial case.
A wood stove would be an interesting one to experiment with. These electrostatic precipitators are used on an industrial scale for scrubbing or filtering. It does output ozone though.
I think a Wimshurst machine with disks at least 27cm in diameter is the easiest way. You can see me demonstrate with it in my follow-up video here ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html
I don't know what that wire is normally used for. I just bought a bunch of it from Home Depot many years ago. Any thick wire that you can form into a circle will do. Clothes hanger wire is an easy to find one. If you can't find it in stores then go to a dry cleaning place and ask for one.
Cool experiment! Is this how they used to make those "smokeless ashtrays"? It seems like they inverted your design and the ion wind would suck the smoke down through the bottom.
Thanks! A quick search online found a few smokeless ashtrays but they used fans to suck the air in and ran the air through charcoal filters. So as far as I can see, they don't work this way.
Besides that, would it make a difference if i were to increase the size of both the wire mesh and radius of the foil? and will this work when being connected to a voltage multiplier that would produce 10kV and above but low in current?
+Darren Tan The affect that the increased size has really depends on where the ionization is happening. Most of the ionization is happening between the circumference of the foil cylinder and the nearest parts of the mesh. So I'd recommend staying with relatively small radius. Ideally you'd have that distance between the cylinder and mesh perfectly the same all around the circumference but that's very hard to achieve. I didn't even try. I got it to with with my commercially made Wimshurst machine which you can see at the bottom of my webpage here rimstar.org/science_electronics_projects/electrostatic_precipitator_smoke_precipitator_simple.htm. A Wimshurst machine is quite low current so if you have a low current voltage multiplier then I suspect it would work, though I can't say for sure.
4 года назад+1
carefull you dont put too much ozone into your room from the corona discharge. In moist air corona discharge can make corrosive acids that eventually break down the cathode
9 лет назад
That was indeed nice. Umm,l we are planning to do a small electrostatic precipators. What are the electrical voltage requirements?
+N Prãvēëñ Çhäñdhâr I didn't measure the voltage. It's partly determined by the distance between the mesh and the foil. With the distance I used I suspect mine was around 20,000 volts. You could probably get it down to the 4-digit voltages range, so somewhere between 1000 and 9999 volts since I think the voltages of the commercially made ionizers' are in that range. You do need some current too for the ionization. For example, my CD Wimshurst machine and my Van de Graaff generators mad using soda cans have the voltage but not the current. However, if you look at the bottom of my webpage here rimstar.org/science_electronics_projects/electrostatic_precipitator_smoke_precipitator_simple.htm you'll see I got it working with a commercially made Wimshurst machine with 27cm (1 foot) disks.
+Monvi Sachdev Probably around 20,000 volts. With a smaller distance between the mesh and the cylinder you can probably use lower voltage, maybe down to 10,000 or 15,000.
cool! I ponder if it is possible to create a functioning smoke precipitator for laser engraving. It is common laser engravers has an air assist (air blowing away smoke from the burning focus point) , it word be cool to collect this so the wood/paper etc don't get tarnished by swirling smoke.
ad an air evacuation system that pulls the smoke away and out. once out the smoke can be filtered in any number of ways including electrostatic like this. Tip, use smaller fans to suck out the smoke and maybe a small fan to first blow it away from the laser engraving so the smoke will not block the laser beam. This is a pretty common problem in laser engraving so you should be able to find plenty of examples online.
@@robert5 For laser we use mostly a high flow rate fan with a 150 mm hose. Would be really good to collect all the particles. But there are glue residue, smoke inside....
The ground wire is connected to the same one that the high voltage power supply uses. So the high voltage positive is relative to ground. If you have a high voltage power supply who's positive and negative outputs are floating (i.e., they're not relative to ground) then you have no idea what voltage they are relative to the table, which is at ground potential. So you could get unexpected effects.
Essentially, yes. Mine doesn't have a pin marked as negative but rather a pin marked as ground. But this power supply doesn't use the output of the flyback. The output of the flyback goes to the input of a voltage multiplier. The output of the voltage multiplier is the output of the power supply. Here's my webpage all about it rimstar.org/equip/30kv_pwr_supply.htm . I did try powering this smoke precipitator using a power supply who's output was the output of a flyback with a built-in diode (to get high voltage DC) but I didn't have any success. You can see that one in my follow-up video ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html at around 2 minutes and 4 seconds in. You can find details about that power supply here rimstar.org/science_electronics_projects/high_voltage_power_supply_w_flyback_transformer_builtin_diodes.htm
Good question. This high voltage power supply which I use in this video is dangerous unless you know how to work with high voltage safely. However, in my follow-up video ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html I demonstrate it using a Wimshurst machine which is much safer and would be a great addition to your school's science/physics classroom if you have one. Note that it has to be a Wimshurst machine with a disk around the size I use in the video or larger (around 27cm/11 inches in diameter). A Wimshurst machine with disks the size of a CD/DVD probably won't work. If by an induction coil you mean a step-up transformer then no, that won't give high enough voltage. If you mean something like an autotransformer then maybe. You'd have to turn the output into DC though. The video I link to above shows that I measured the required voltage at around 21,000 volts for this design of smoke precipitator.
i cant make power supply shown here. can u guide me how to charge the Al foil positively and the the mesh negatively please with the help of some easy method or any equipment that i can buy from the store
Check out my follow-up video here ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html where I show powering it using a Wimshurst machine. You can buy those on ebay.com. Just search for "wimshurst machine". Pretty much any one there will work. For example, www.ebay.com/itm/Wimshurst-Machine-Physics-Electrostatic-Generator-Model-Educational-Toy/233080929666
No, for this one you need 21,000v. The easiest is to get a Wimshurst machine like the one I show in my follow-up video here ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html. You can buy them on ebay.com by searching for "Wimshurst machine".
I'm really not sure if you want to pull it through faster. It is all going through once it's going well. I'd be worried about the stronger air current overcoming the attractive force between the negatively charged smoke particles and the positively charged cylinder. It might blow even charge particles straight through and out the top. But it'd be a variable to play with.
A battery has both a negative and a positive terminal so, yes. But if you're asking because you want to use a battery to power this smoke precipitator, it won't work. Batteries are typically around 1.5 volts to 12 volts, depending on the battery. This precipitator needs around 21,000 volts. See my follow-up video where I measure the required voltage ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html.
Yes, that would be alright. My HV power supply didn't have a high voltage negative output so the negative terminal was ground. I liked having the mesh be ground because it is nearest the table and other supporting stuff, which is also at ground potential. But even then, I think mine was high enough up on the plastic rod for that to not have been important. It did allow me to run the negative wire across the top of the table instead of suspending it in the air though, as you'd have to with a negative that's at high voltage with respect to ground.
I used my 30kV homemade high voltage power supply ruclips.net/video/GEuK1OdYxHk/видео.html but my commercially made Wimshurst machine works too. You can see all that in my follow-up video were I also measure the voltage ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html which turned out to be around 21kV.
+Abhinandan Singh This is the first I've heard of CDI assemblies and I just looked them up but I still don't know enough about CDI assemblies to say. I could be wrong but it sounds like the voltage would be pulsed so I guess if the pulse rate is high enough it might work.
+Abhinandan Singh Great! I look forward to hearing how it works out. If you take enough clear photos I could even put it up on my website (rimstar.org/science_electronics_projects/electrostatic_precipitator_smoke_precipitator_simple.htm) so others can benefit too. This is probably the device I get asked most about how to power it.
+sarathchandra vss I don't know what you mean. Do you mean can you just plug into a household wall power socket as your power supply? If so, no. The voltage is only around 120V or 240V depending on where you live. Much too low a voltage.
For the negative connection, if i am using a transformer circuit that supplies 15kV, do i connect the mesh to the negative of the circuit power supply??
+Darren Tan Yes, connect the mesh to the negative of the circuit power supply. Actually if you have a power supply where one side is high voltage positive and the other side is high voltage negative and neither side is grounded then it doesn't matter which way you connect it up. However, if the negative of your power supply is grounded (like mine, even though I took the ground connection more directly from the ground for convenience) then I'd prefer connecting that to the mesh since the mesh is at the bottom and is likely closer to other grounded objects, such as anything related to the source of your smoke. In that case it's safer if that's the grounded side of the circuit.
My power supply only produces a positive high voltage output and im not so sure about the ground/negative end of the power circuit, so would you recommend me any other ways for me to connect my mesh to?
+Darren Tan Your power supply produces a positive high voltage output relative to something. I'm pretty sure that something is ground, unless it's battery operated in which case it's still relative to something but that depends on the circuit. So if it plugs into the wall then I'd recommend you do what I did and have a wire going from ground to the mesh. The simplest way to do that is to look at how many wires go from the plug into your power supply. If it's three then one of those is ground and you can connect to that. If it's only two then, again, I'm not sure that your high voltage positive is relative to. Even then, you can still try connecting the mesh to ground. I give some tips on finding a ground in this video ruclips.net/video/HZZmKZJrIW0/видео.html at around 6 minutes and 50 seconds in.
Good question. I guess if you're laser cutting wood then I would think so, but I don't know about other materials. There is an issue of ozone production, which you don't want to breathe a lot of. I've never been able to find what the threshold voltage is but above some voltage in the 1kV to 10kV range ozone production begins.
I've used a step down transformer and a rectifier but can u give me the circuit diagram for that and where does the negative of the power supply go and how should we complete the circuit
You need at least 21,000 volts. A step down transformer and rectifier won't produce that high a voltage (but here's my webpage for my low voltage power supply rimstar.org/equip/24v_pwr_supply.htm but the output voltage is only up to 24 volts). In my follow-up video I show trying some different power sources and measuring the required voltage ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html.
You have the mesh attached to earth ground. So due to the high voltage applied to the cylinder, the mesh has a much lower voltage is comparison i.e. creating a potential difference. The corona is therefore due to electrons jumping from the cylinder to the mesh...which in turn negatively charges our smoke particles passing through? Am I correct in say this? Is there any added advantage to applying an even more negative voltage to the mesh? Would this be the same as just raising the voltage at the cylinder because it's all about creating a greater potential difference?
Regarding your first paragraph, a voltage is a measure between two things, the cylinder and the mesh in this example. So saying that there's a high voltage on the cylinder but a lower voltage on the mesh doesn't make sense. There's a high voltage between the two, your potential difference. Instead you could compare the voltage on the cylinder to Earth ground and say that there's a high voltage between the cylinder and Earth ground. And since the mesh is connected to Earth ground, there's 0 volts between the Earth ground and the mesh. However, that's not true once the power supply is turned on since the positively charged cylinder attracts electrons from the Earth ground to the mesh, and so the mesh becomes negatively charged and is no longer at 0 volts with respect to Earth ground. Regarding your second paragraph, after reading what I said above, you can see that the electrons jump from the mesh to the cylinder. Smoke particles either get negatively charged at the mesh or as you say, from the corona in between. They're then attracted to the positively charged cylinder. Increasing the voltage wouldn't actually increase the voltage since the maximum voltage is limited by the distance between the mesh and cylinder and also the geometry of the mesh and cylinder. Turning up the voltage would only supply more current (assuming your power supply doesn't limit the current, mine doesn't). So if you were measuring both voltage and current while you turned up the voltage, you'd see the voltage level off and the current continue to increase. This would be good since that current supplies more charge for ionizing more smoke particles. Would there be an advantage to supplying a negative voltage? The Earth ground that the mesh is connected to already has all the electrons you'll ever need. So all that supplying a negative voltage will do is increase the voltage between the cylinder and the mesh, which as the previous paragraph pointed out, will increase the current and be a good thing. However, the same thing can be achieved by leaving the mesh at ground and increasing the positive voltage on the cylinder. The result will be the same I think.
Those are vises (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vise). A vise is a tool for holding things while you work with them. Use any method you have for supporting the precipitator and the source of your smoke.
It should work if your vdg is big enough. I got it working just barely with my commercially made Wimshurst machine with the 26cm disks. But based on that I'm pretty sure my small homemade soda can vdg won't make it work. I think my big vdg with the 15 inch dome would make it work though, since it's much more powerful than my Wimshurst machine.
To get it so there's no visible smoke coming out, I'd estimate 20kV * 250 microamps = 4 watts at the output from the power supply roughly. But there are probably a lot of parameters that can be played with like the density of the mesh, wire size, using plates instead of wires, diameter, spacing between the mesh and cylinder, ... I had it working with a Wimshurst machine last night which has much lower current, but there was still a little smoke coming out.
It's usually soil with some moisture in it. Dry sand isn't a very good ground. It's really the ions in the soil which make it a fair electrical conductor and therefore a ground. The moisture helps the ions make the soil more conductive somehow.
It's around 21,000 volts DC. I measured it in this follow-up video ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html as well as show an easier way to power it using a Wimshurst machine.
You need the high voltage firstly to ionize the smoke at the mesh. Just running electrons through the mesh at low voltage won't ionize the surrounding air. There's a minimum voltage you need for that. I don't know what it is though. But it's definitely not in the 240 volts or less range.
Is it possible to extract the positive terminal of an AA battery for the V+ of the aluminum foil and its negative terminal for the V- of the wire mesh? Asking for a research project thanks in advance
No, this requires around 21,000 volts, much more than the AA's 1.5 volts. Check out my follow-up video where I measure the voltage and show some options for powering it ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html.
+Baker abdin Your high voltage power source should have two outputs. Connect one of them to the foil cylinder and connect the other one to the mesh. It doesn't matter which way, unless one of them is ground, then that one works best if it's connected to the mesh, I think. In the case of my 30kV high voltage power supply the two outputs are high voltage positive and ground. That power supply ground is connected to the ground prong on the plug (here in North America it's the round one) that goes to the wall socket. But when I use my Wimshurst machine as the power source instead then the two outputs are high voltage positive and high voltage negative. You can see my Wimshurst machine being used at the bottom of my webpage here rimstar.org/science_electronics_projects/electrostatic_precipitator_smoke_precipitator_simple.htm What are you using for a high voltage power source?
It requires around 21,000 volts DC. I don't know how much current. I've been asked this so often that I made this follow-up video ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html where I measure the voltage and demonstrate that it can be powered using a Wimshurst machine.
I didn't measure the voltage but I suspect it was around 25kV. But having enough current is also important since that's what provides the charges to charge the particles. I don't know if powder coating equipment would work but I would guess it would since for powder coating it also has to supply charge, I think. I could be wrong.
How is the High voltage connected through the aluminium foil? is it just barely in contact with each other? and as you mentioned in your video, the aluminium foil connected to a positive high voltage output, does that mean that both the negative and positive must be supplied with both high voltage of 10kV-20kV? Hope to get a quick response cause this is for a school project
+Darren Tan The wire is taped to the aluminum foil so it's a solid connection. You can see it in the video at 1:59. The negative can go through the power supply and be an actual high voltage negative or it can be a connection to ground as long as the power supplies positive is relative to ground (my power supply is that way.) So in the video I was using HV positive for the foil and ground for the mesh. Contrast that with where I used my Wimshurst machine where it is high voltage positive for the foil and high voltage negative for the mesh (in that case ground is somewhere between but it doesn't matter.)
Is it possible to make a BIGGER version of this? And are you able to wash off the grime from the aluminum so you can use it over and over again? I am very curious about this
+GUNVALKERIE It washes off easily with dish soap and hot water. I used aluminum foil which is pretty delicate but you could use a more solid aluminum instead. Keep in mind that this produces ozone as a bi-product, which is harmful in large doses. There is some voltage below which ozone isn't produced but I don't know what that voltage is; somewhere between 1kV and 10kV. It's the voltage that air ionizers that you can by in the store use but I don't know what it is. These electrostatic precipitators are used on a very large scale en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrostatic_precipitator.
Unfortunately, this needs around 21,000 volts and you can't combine batteries in any way to get that voltage. You can, however, use batteries to power a high voltage power supply of some sort. But have a look at my follow-up video where I test different power source for this smoke precipitator ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html.
I want to build an electrostatic precipitator for some experimentation on particle separation of about 100 microns. The two materials have similar resistivity and are similarly sized, so it is important to dial in the perfect spot where maximum separation occurs. If possible I would like to take some quantitative measurements of the current needed. Can you recommend a voltmeter and a cheap high power supply that I don't have to build that should work for my purposes?
For measuring current, use an analog meter (i.e. one with a needle display, not digital.) Digital meters don't work well or last long when connected along a high voltage wire in my experience. For high power supply, if you want to make your own then there's my "How to Make 30kV High Voltage DC Power Supply with Flyback & Cockcroft-Walton Multiplier Tripler". For buying one, I'm not aware of all online sources. amazing1.com/ has some, though if you're doing real research you might want one with current, as well as voltage control but I don't have any sources for you on those. They're basically lab power supplies.
Hi! I am really amazed by your work. However, i just would like to ask if HV power supply produces only a positive charge. And if so, how would I get a negative charge from the earth ground? Can you please help me and explain it to me. Thank you so much.
This is probably not a good project for a science fair. It doesn't capture all of the smoke and it also produces ozone. Ozone in small amounts isn't too harmful but during a science fair, you'll be producing a lot of it and that can be harmful. Having said that, you need 21,000 volts which is far more than any battery can produce. I show some alternative ways of producing the high voltage in my follow-up video ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html The Wimshurst machine that I show there can be found on ebay.com by searching for "Wimshurst machine".
+Itz Yash A soda can Van de Graaff generator probably wouldn't be able to power it. One with a larger dome should be able to though. The same for Wimshurst machines. A Wimshurst machine made using CDs probably wouldn't be able to but one with larger disks should. My commercially made Wimshurst machine with 27cm diameter disks was able to power the precipitator. PS. If you want people to be able to Reply to you directly then go to your Google+ settings and change the "who can reply to public posts" to Anyone.
+Itz Yash I haven't tried it myself so I can't be sure it will work. However, if it's a big enough Van de Graaff then it should be comparable to my 27cm diameter Wimshurst machine. This precipitator is simple enough to build and try so you should try it and see. Let me know how it goes.
I would think so since it's capturing all the soot but I'm not sure if what you smell is only the soot, maybe there's something else that doesn't get captured by the precipitator so I'm not sure.
Excellent work. Having spent 30-odd years in environmental protection and pollution control dealing with the industrial sized versions of these it is great to see such a clear and practical demonstration of the technology. I think I'll have a go at this myself (anything to avoid dusting). Subs +1.
Thanks. On the ones you worked with, did you have an issue with ozone production? The design of this one requires high enough voltages to produce ozone and so is not a good idea to use it in an unventilated place or for too long. And welcome to the channel.
@@RimstarOrg You're welcome. Yes, they were known to produce ozone but at the time ground level ozone wasn't as much a concern as the fine particulates the EPs arrested (in fact it still isn't - atmospheric ultra-fines are a major killer). In an enclosed space it is an entirely different matter and you're quite right, ozone there is a real risk. In an enclosed space it would be best to strip the ozone out before it leaves the stack. Thanks for the welcome - very greatly appreciated.
Immense effort covered in Neat illustration with crisp tone. Thank you Steven
That's why i love HV, so many amazing things you can do with it. Grrrrreat video!
Which device is efficient to generate continuous hv
like dying by accident ! HOW AMAZING !
I made mine using a concave tea strainer for the metal mesh HV-, some steel wool for HV+ and a DC 400KV Boost Step-up Power Module High-voltage Generator i got from ebay for a high voltage supply source. First I tried using aluminium foil as you used for HV+, but the apparatus refused to work no matter what I tried. I was frustrated and ready to give up when I decided to switch aluminium foil to steel wool. Luckily, it worked like a charm! I was amazed by the results! Lesson learned : never give up! RimstarOrg keep up the good work! I love your videos!
Thanks! And cool! Glad to hear it worked! And I've been there many times myself. Often if it doesn't work then just step away and come back to it later. Maybe it worked because your input voltage was lower than you thought, or the PSU couldn't keep up with enough current losses to keep the voltage up. That would mean the foil would be too rounded and needed a sharper edge. The sharp points of the steel wool, or the thin wool wires may have provided that sharped edge. Something like that. At least it worked! Yay!
What input volt 😢
Cleaning up smoke using a homemade smoke precipitator aka electrostatic precipitator. It does produce ozone though. But this is what ones on the market do. Someday I'll try it on a car exhaust.
Wow that's amazing
I would love to make it
The only problem is the high voltage source
This is too Gud
But happens to the smoke where does it go?
varun rao
Glad you liked it.
The smoke particles end up coating the aluminum foil cylinder. I think it would still work if I covered the cylinder with paper towel and it coated the paper towel instead.
I've done so many interesting projects with this high voltage power supply that it's worth looking into making one. In case you haven't seen it, here's my video about making it ruclips.net/video/GEuK1OdYxHk/видео.html
we have a hv smoke precipitator for hotel restaurant exhaust there is an oil filter before the plates and odour is eliminated and pass to the roof
No I have seen the vid but from where I come it's very difficult to get those part
Infact I guess I have seen almost all ur vids they r all gr8
varun rao
I powered my smoke precipitator using my commercially made 27cm diameter disks Wimshurst machine last night. It got rid of almost all the smoke, but that's close enough that I'm sure with some tweaking of the mesh or diameter or ... it could get rid of all of it. A Wimshurst machine is much lower current than the power supply in the video so that opens it up to many more power sources. Hopefully that helps.
Great project and very informative as usual.
Hi sis, what substances or dirt can be bound by the filter?
Sorry but I don't know. The tests I did in the video were the only ones I did.
Thanks for helping me out with my project for school!
Watching this video reminded me of my uncle Bob Odell. He would patiently teach us all kinds of engineering using simple examples. I thoroughly enjoyed this. Thandk you!!
How many volts are required to power it?
yes
@@oceanwidjaja8846 You sir, are hilarious!
It equals 1 gallon of water...
at least 3 or 4
42
are there any small commercial versions of this to combat charcoal smoke from a small barbeque ?
This is fantastic - I can see enormous arrays of these setup capturing the pollution of our great cities!
They're commonly used in garbage processing power plants and such, to capture fly ash.
how much voltage is needed?(minimum)
For this design, you need 21,000 volts minimum. I test that in this follow-up video ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html
Hello! I'm doing this for my science project and I just wanted to know if it was AC or DC. Thanks！
It's DC but it's 21,000 volts DC. So you can't use batteries or a normal power supply. See my follow-up video where I measure it and test some other power supply options ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html
Looking for a way to make bigger? Thinking if I could make one to smoke bbq meat the size about 20” X 10” long X 10” high. Any ideas?
How did u cut the wire mesh with complete circle
thanks for always reminding me how bad I am at anything science or electrical....
You're welcome :).
@@RimstarOrg good day. Will a supply unit work that supplies the high voltage for an ozone generator that uses these blue ceramic plates that produce a blue corona for a precipitator?
I would love to install a larger version of this technology on the exhaust system of my gasoline/fossil fuel/petrol powered automobile. and furthermore, if this technology could entirely replace the present catalytic converters in the exhaust system, this could contribute to highly reduced automobile pricing, because catalytic converters require very expensive materials which also have a limited lifespan.
this is wonderful tech, indeed!
thank you for making this wonderful video!
Nice ! Have you tried since ?
this video helped us in our Science exhibition project. Thank you sir
I'm curious, could a window size of this device be made to collect pollen?
Theoretically one can be made that size. Electrostatic precipitators are used in industry for all sorts of things and are much, much larger. Electrostatic air cleaners are available that are around window size. I don't know how well it would work with pollen. Interesting question. My guess is it'd work but I don't know for sure.
the only issue I see with that is if you touch the screens your going to get a jolt
the pollen could burn because of electricity i am not sure
I can't understand about that wire mesh is connected to the ground . how does it get negative charge
The cylinder is positively charged. That positive charge attracts negative charge from the ground. That's because unlike charges attract each other.
Excellent video, u got a new subscriber
hey I was just thinking is it possible to make a cigarette filter using this technology? so that the tar gets filtered?
I didn't have a cigarette to try so I can't say for sure. Note that with this design, the voltage required is around 21,000 volts. At that voltage, it also produces ozone, which is hazardous to your health in large quantities.
+ganesh br I didn't measure the voltage but you need high voltage, somewhere around 20,000 volts.
PS. You don't have a Reply button for your comment. You need to change the Google+ setting "Who can reply to you public posts" to "Anyone".
Could you use this when soldering to suck the fumes since the melted solder fumes are bad for your health rimstarorg?
+sciencenerds Theoretically I guess you could but the soldering would have to be done pretty close to the inlet since the suction isn't that strong. Much simpler to use a fan and a hose I think.
Thank you sir! Your videos are fun and educational ...
You're welcome! I'm glad you enjoy them. Thanks for watching.
will it work with automobile exhaust?
I don't know. I've only tried the sources I show in this video.
IS there is space between tha alumunium foil and the jar?
I have a question. Can you help? I want to make a project about your work. But I don't know how to do it like that Because I tried to do it with no results I want you to help
You'll have to describe what you tried before I can help. Note that this design needs around 21,000 volts. I also have a follow-up video which may help ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html
Can we use the Wimhurst machine you have build to work this precipitator?
Aishwarya Aishu No, the voltage and current from that Wimshurst machine is too small. It just barely works with my commercially made 27cm disk Wimshurst machine.
Whats the alternative then ??
Aishwarya Aishu Make the Wimshurst machine with larger diameter disks, minimum 27cm diameter. Every other alternative is much harder involving making or buying a high voltage DC power supply that can supply high voltage but also a decent amount of current.
Thanks for the project...Helped me win a prize for the best concept in a Science fair
Awesome! Congrats!
Would this work with larger particles like Burning of Woods....???
i need your help please !!! in the video at 2:13 , you say that mesh is connected to ground ? could pls give some explanation and some information on that how the wire ( from mesh ) is connected to the earth ground
I show it in my crystal radio tip video ruclips.net/video/HZZmKZJrIW0/видео.html at around six minutes and fifty two seconds in.
Oh, and the explanation is because the high voltage terminal of my high voltage power supply is relative to ground. Basically, my power supply has two terminals, high voltage positive and ground. In fact, I may not have use the ground plug plugged into the wall trick that I talk about in my crystal radio video. I may have connected it to the ground terminal of my high voltage power supply.
However, if you're using a Wimshurst machine to power it like I did in my follow-up video ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html then it has just two high voltage terminals and no ground. So it depends on your power supply.
You didn't say what voltage you used?
Its sounds high frequency though.
Would a flyback work?
I didn't measure the voltage. Based on my lifter voltage measurements I'd estimate in the 20kV range. The power supply is putting out DC, though since it's using a Cockcroft-Walton voltage multiplier after the flyback to produce the DC, I imagine there's plenty of ripple on top of the DC. That's typical of multipliers when there's leakage, and there's plenty of leakage here!
A flyback puts out AC, so I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work. The ionized particles would just keep moving back and forth in the air stream, likely never getting to the cylinder.
You can see the power supply details in my "How to Make 30kV High Voltage DC Power Supply..." video ruclips.net/video/GEuK1OdYxHk/видео.html
2:15 : Dear friend, sorry for my English. Could you explain : if the mesh is grounded, how it is possible for smoke particles to get the negative charge while going through the mesh?
Good question. Positive and negative charges attract each other. The positive charge on the foil attacts negative charges from the ground, through the ground wire to the mesh. So the mesh becomes negatively charged.
CO2 ionised kaise hoga Sir?
Would this work for lead casting fumes in my shop?
Would be using it over a small lee casting pot.
I don't know if it would work for lead casting fumes. I really don't know what fumes it would work with except that it works with carbon/soot. This technique is used a lot in the manufacturing industry though so I'm sure it's not limited to soot.
How did you calculate the distance between wire mesh and aluminium foil . And how did you calculate the width of the foil required?
For the diameter of the foil, I just went by the diameter of the plastic jar. It doesn't really matter. For the roundness of the bottom edge of the foil, I just guessed what might be good. I didn't want it to be sharp. The height of the foil can be anything over an inch or so. I determined that because that's around the height of the foil for a lifter which uses a similar principle in order to fly (here's my video on making a lifter ruclips.net/video/vzZy1Aqleno/видео.html).
For the distance between the wire mesh and aluminum foil, you want it to be as close as you can get it without causing sparks between the foil and the mesh. I show testing that distance in this follow-up video ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html.
Do you have any suggestions on how we would make or get a power supply for an electro static precipiator i am trying to use in water
Dan C.K I've never done a precipitator that uses water so I can't make any suggestions.
Does the incense still have a scent when the machine is turned on, or only when the smoke is allowed to escape?
+kmidgley Good question. But now that you ask, I don't recall ever smelling the scent of these particular incense sticks. I bought them purely because they put out a lot of smoke for these smoke tests. I did, however, smell the ozone produced by the corona in the gap between the mesh and the cylinder, so that leads me even more to think that these sticks don't smell. Or maybe my nose isn't very sensitive to their scent.
+RimstarOrg I see! Thank you for the information.
Sir,
In the page where you explained how to make a Wimshurst machine ,one of your answers to the questions stated that it had no practical use ,but here you have stated that you used it to power the electrostatic precipitator can you explain how ?
Is the positive wire is copper wire?
Would a Van de Graaff generator also work if the mesh and the aluminum cathode is placed further apart?
I haven't tried a Van de Graaff, but it would depend on the the machine too. It would probably have the required voltage, but it's the current that it may be lacking in (for the ions). With a Van de Graaff, the wider the belt and the faster the belt moves, the higher the current. I doubt very much that my soda can Van de Graff with its rubber band belt would have enough current so I've never tried it. I did get it working with a Wimshurst machine though, one with big disks. See this video here for my experiments and voltage measurements ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html.
Regarding moving the mesh and aluminum cylinder farther apart, you'd want to do the opposite. The closer together they are the lower the required voltage (the required current isn't affected by the spacing). I also experiment with that in the video I linked to.
Very interesting! My first thought was whether a wood stove could be rigged with a steam turbine to produce enough electricity to scrub its own exhaust whilst still heating a room. The question of cost vs benefit could be a major one, in such a trivial case.
A wood stove would be an interesting one to experiment with. These electrostatic precipitators are used on an industrial scale for scrubbing or filtering. It does output ozone though.
@@RimstarOrg why is ozone created, and can this be reduced?
@@astroNexx UV rays coming from sun is trapped By ozone and by the gasses such as co2 it gets depleted
how high is the high voltage, or how high must the positive voltage be?
For this design, it needs around 21,000 volts. I did this follow-up video ruclips.net/video/Lz-HfDWjmRQ/видео.html where I measured it.
can we use electricity in place of high voltage power
Hello, Whats the easiest way of powering the precipitator?
I think a Wimshurst machine with disks at least 27cm in diameter is the easiest way. You can see me demonstrate with it in my follow-up video here ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html
in 1:30 could you please explain what is that blue wire , what type wire is that ?? pls reply fast
I don't know what that wire is normally used for. I just bought a bunch of it from Home Depot many years ago. Any thick wire that you can form into a circle will do. Clothes hanger wire is an easy to find one. If you can't find it in stores then go to a dry cleaning place and ask for one.
thanks a lot !!!!
Cool experiment! Is this how they used to make those "smokeless ashtrays"? It seems like they inverted your design and the ion wind would suck the smoke down through the bottom.
Thanks! A quick search online found a few smokeless ashtrays but they used fans to suck the air in and ran the air through charcoal filters. So as far as I can see, they don't work this way.
Besides that, would it make a difference if i were to increase the size of both the wire mesh and radius of the foil? and will this work when being connected to a voltage multiplier that would produce 10kV and above but low in current?
+Darren Tan The affect that the increased size has really depends on where the ionization is happening. Most of the ionization is happening between the circumference of the foil cylinder and the nearest parts of the mesh. So I'd recommend staying with relatively small radius. Ideally you'd have that distance between the cylinder and mesh perfectly the same all around the circumference but that's very hard to achieve. I didn't even try.
I got it to with with my commercially made Wimshurst machine which you can see at the bottom of my webpage here rimstar.org/science_electronics_projects/electrostatic_precipitator_smoke_precipitator_simple.htm. A Wimshurst machine is quite low current so if you have a low current voltage multiplier then I suspect it would work, though I can't say for sure.
carefull you dont put too much ozone into your room from the corona discharge.
In moist air corona discharge can make corrosive acids that eventually break down the cathode
That was indeed nice. Umm,l we are planning to do a small electrostatic precipators. What are the electrical voltage requirements?
+N Prãvēëñ Çhäñdhâr I didn't measure the voltage. It's partly determined by the distance between the mesh and the foil. With the distance I used I suspect mine was around 20,000 volts. You could probably get it down to the 4-digit voltages range, so somewhere between 1000 and 9999 volts since I think the voltages of the commercially made ionizers' are in that range.
You do need some current too for the ionization. For example, my CD Wimshurst machine and my Van de Graaff generators mad using soda cans have the voltage but not the current. However, if you look at the bottom of my webpage here rimstar.org/science_electronics_projects/electrostatic_precipitator_smoke_precipitator_simple.htm you'll see I got it working with a commercially made Wimshurst machine with 27cm (1 foot) disks.
what is the amount of voltage required
pls reply fast
school project
plsssssssssssss☺
+Monvi Sachdev Probably around 20,000 volts. With a smaller distance between the mesh and the cylinder you can probably use lower voltage, maybe down to 10,000 or 15,000.
How can I provide such large amount of voltage supply
Janhavi Nasre Simply buy a Flyback w/ builtin diode , it can give u 30kV
@@heyyaitsardy can to provide more info about this diode.... And its cost or its circuit
@@hasinqazi2121 better buy a transformer
cool!
I ponder if it is possible to create a functioning smoke precipitator for laser engraving. It is common laser engravers has an air assist (air blowing away smoke from the burning focus point) , it word be cool to collect this so the wood/paper etc don't get tarnished by swirling smoke.
ad an air evacuation system that pulls the smoke away and out. once out the smoke can be filtered in any number of ways including electrostatic like this. Tip, use smaller fans to suck out the smoke and maybe a small fan to first blow it away from the laser engraving so the smoke will not block the laser beam. This is a pretty common problem in laser engraving so you should be able to find plenty of examples online.
@@robert5 For laser we use mostly a high flow rate fan with a 150 mm hose. Would be really good to collect all the particles.
But there are glue residue, smoke inside....
Is the high voltage a DC or AC? looks like from the sound it's a AC right?
It's DC. Around 21,000 volts DC. I measured it in this follow-up video ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html
Is the ground wire (-) independent of the positive high voltage source? or does this come from the same source?
The ground wire is connected to the same one that the high voltage power supply uses. So the high voltage positive is relative to ground. If you have a high voltage power supply who's positive and negative outputs are floating (i.e., they're not relative to ground) then you have no idea what voltage they are relative to the table, which is at ground potential. So you could get unexpected effects.
@@RimstarOrg wow I understand brother, then the cable that is attached to the flyscreen mesh is the negative output of the flyback?
Essentially, yes. Mine doesn't have a pin marked as negative but rather a pin marked as ground. But this power supply doesn't use the output of the flyback. The output of the flyback goes to the input of a voltage multiplier. The output of the voltage multiplier is the output of the power supply. Here's my webpage all about it rimstar.org/equip/30kv_pwr_supply.htm . I did try powering this smoke precipitator using a power supply who's output was the output of a flyback with a built-in diode (to get high voltage DC) but I didn't have any success. You can see that one in my follow-up video ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html at around 2 minutes and 4 seconds in. You can find details about that power supply here rimstar.org/science_electronics_projects/high_voltage_power_supply_w_flyback_transformer_builtin_diodes.htm
@@RimstarOrg Now I understand brother, thank you very much for these valuable contributions to knowledge, all your experiments are great.
Would it be safe to make it for a school project as very high voltage is required and can we use an induction coil to get the voltage
Good question. This high voltage power supply which I use in this video is dangerous unless you know how to work with high voltage safely. However, in my follow-up video ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html I demonstrate it using a Wimshurst machine which is much safer and would be a great addition to your school's science/physics classroom if you have one. Note that it has to be a Wimshurst machine with a disk around the size I use in the video or larger (around 27cm/11 inches in diameter). A Wimshurst machine with disks the size of a CD/DVD probably won't work.
If by an induction coil you mean a step-up transformer then no, that won't give high enough voltage. If you mean something like an autotransformer then maybe. You'd have to turn the output into DC though. The video I link to above shows that I measured the required voltage at around 21,000 volts for this design of smoke precipitator.
There's a company that makes these for wood stoves. Pretty neat.
Would fine dust be possible if I changed the wire mesh? Like toner powder
I don't know.
@@RimstarOrg OK. I'll do that
i cant make power supply shown here. can u guide me how to charge the Al foil positively and the the mesh negatively please with the help of some easy method or any equipment that i can buy from the store
Check out my follow-up video here ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html where I show powering it using a Wimshurst machine. You can buy those on ebay.com. Just search for "wimshurst machine". Pretty much any one there will work. For example, www.ebay.com/itm/Wimshurst-Machine-Physics-Electrostatic-Generator-Model-Educational-Toy/233080929666
Is we can use 9v battery or direct power supply through charger
No, for this one you need 21,000v. The easiest is to get a Wimshurst machine like the one I show in my follow-up video here ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html. You can buy them on ebay.com by searching for "Wimshurst machine".
How fast can particles be charged?
Would a strong wind or computer fan pull it through at all?
I'm really not sure if you want to pull it through faster. It is all going through once it's going well. I'd be worried about the stronger air current overcoming the attractive force between the negatively charged smoke particles and the positively charged cylinder. It might blow even charge particles straight through and out the top. But it'd be a variable to play with.
Any Other to make an electrostatic precipitator ? I have tried one..bt it is not working..I am using my van de graaff with a large dome...
Thank you sir, your video also give me a lot of help for my education
Can l give negative charge from the same battery through which I am giving positive charge
A battery has both a negative and a positive terminal so, yes. But if you're asking because you want to use a battery to power this smoke precipitator, it won't work. Batteries are typically around 1.5 volts to 12 volts, depending on the battery. This precipitator needs around 21,000 volts. See my follow-up video where I measure the required voltage ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html.
Is it alright if the mesh is connected to negative terminal of high voltage supply instead?
Yes, that would be alright. My HV power supply didn't have a high voltage negative output so the negative terminal was ground. I liked having the mesh be ground because it is nearest the table and other supporting stuff, which is also at ground potential. But even then, I think mine was high enough up on the plastic rod for that to not have been important. It did allow me to run the negative wire across the top of the table instead of suspending it in the air though, as you'd have to with a negative that's at high voltage with respect to ground.
@@RimstarOrg Cool. Thanks.
Great bro good job
How many voltage did you used? And how to get a power supply like the one you used? thx
I used my 30kV homemade high voltage power supply ruclips.net/video/GEuK1OdYxHk/видео.html but my commercially made Wimshurst machine works too. You can see all that in my follow-up video were I also measure the voltage ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html which turned out to be around 21kV.
with how much work stress?
Can I use an alternator and CDI assembly as a voltage source?
+Abhinandan Singh This is the first I've heard of CDI assemblies and I just looked them up but I still don't know enough about CDI assemblies to say. I could be wrong but it sounds like the voltage would be pulsed so I guess if the pulse rate is high enough it might work.
+RimstarOrg Thanks Sir. Will try and let you know if it works!
+Abhinandan Singh Great! I look forward to hearing how it works out. If you take enough clear photos I could even put it up on my website (rimstar.org/science_electronics_projects/electrostatic_precipitator_smoke_precipitator_simple.htm) so others can benefit too. This is probably the device I get asked most about how to power it.
Hey rimstar.org can i directly put the wires in a socket
+sarathchandra vss I don't know what you mean. Do you mean can you just plug into a household wall power socket as your power supply? If so, no. The voltage is only around 120V or 240V depending on where you live. Much too low a voltage.
What type of ESP is it? Flat plate or wire plate?
From a quick search of different types, it doesn't seem to be any of them.
For the negative connection, if i am using a transformer circuit that supplies 15kV, do i connect the mesh to the negative of the circuit power supply??
+Darren Tan Yes, connect the mesh to the negative of the circuit power supply. Actually if you have a power supply where one side is high voltage positive and the other side is high voltage negative and neither side is grounded then it doesn't matter which way you connect it up.
However, if the negative of your power supply is grounded (like mine, even though I took the ground connection more directly from the ground for convenience) then I'd prefer connecting that to the mesh since the mesh is at the bottom and is likely closer to other grounded objects, such as anything related to the source of your smoke. In that case it's safer if that's the grounded side of the circuit.
My power supply only produces a positive high voltage output and im not so sure about the ground/negative end of the power circuit, so would you recommend me any other ways for me to connect my mesh to?
+Darren Tan Your power supply produces a positive high voltage output relative to something. I'm pretty sure that something is ground, unless it's battery operated in which case it's still relative to something but that depends on the circuit. So if it plugs into the wall then I'd recommend you do what I did and have a wire going from ground to the mesh. The simplest way to do that is to look at how many wires go from the plug into your power supply. If it's three then one of those is ground and you can connect to that. If it's only two then, again, I'm not sure that your high voltage positive is relative to. Even then, you can still try connecting the mesh to ground. I give some tips on finding a ground in this video ruclips.net/video/HZZmKZJrIW0/видео.html at around 6 minutes and 50 seconds in.
wondering if this would work on the output vent of a laser cutter?
Good question. I guess if you're laser cutting wood then I would think so, but I don't know about other materials. There is an issue of ozone production, which you don't want to breathe a lot of. I've never been able to find what the threshold voltage is but above some voltage in the 1kV to 10kV range ozone production begins.
I've used a step down transformer and a rectifier but can u give me the circuit diagram for that and where does the negative of the power supply go and how should we complete the circuit
You need at least 21,000 volts. A step down transformer and rectifier won't produce that high a voltage (but here's my webpage for my low voltage power supply rimstar.org/equip/24v_pwr_supply.htm but the output voltage is only up to 24 volts). In my follow-up video I show trying some different power sources and measuring the required voltage ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html.
You have the mesh attached to earth ground. So due to the high voltage applied to the cylinder, the mesh has a much lower voltage is comparison i.e. creating a potential difference.
The corona is therefore due to electrons jumping from the cylinder to the mesh...which in turn negatively charges our smoke particles passing through?
Am I correct in say this?
Is there any added advantage to applying an even more negative voltage to the mesh?
Would this be the same as just raising the voltage at the cylinder because it's all about creating a greater potential difference?
Regarding your first paragraph, a voltage is a measure between two things, the cylinder and the mesh in this example. So saying that there's a high voltage on the cylinder but a lower voltage on the mesh doesn't make sense. There's a high voltage between the two, your potential difference.
Instead you could compare the voltage on the cylinder to Earth ground and say that there's a high voltage between the cylinder and Earth ground. And since the mesh is connected to Earth ground, there's 0 volts between the Earth ground and the mesh.
However, that's not true once the power supply is turned on since the positively charged cylinder attracts electrons from the Earth ground to the mesh, and so the mesh becomes negatively charged and is no longer at 0 volts with respect to Earth ground.
Regarding your second paragraph, after reading what I said above, you can see that the electrons jump from the mesh to the cylinder. Smoke particles either get negatively charged at the mesh or as you say, from the corona in between. They're then attracted to the positively charged cylinder.
Increasing the voltage wouldn't actually increase the voltage since the maximum voltage is limited by the distance between the mesh and cylinder and also the geometry of the mesh and cylinder. Turning up the voltage would only supply more current (assuming your power supply doesn't limit the current, mine doesn't). So if you were measuring both voltage and current while you turned up the voltage, you'd see the voltage level off and the current continue to increase. This would be good since that current supplies more charge for ionizing more smoke particles.
Would there be an advantage to supplying a negative voltage? The Earth ground that the mesh is connected to already has all the electrons you'll ever need. So all that supplying a negative voltage will do is increase the voltage between the cylinder and the mesh, which as the previous paragraph pointed out, will increase the current and be a good thing. However, the same thing can be achieved by leaving the mesh at ground and increasing the positive voltage on the cylinder. The result will be the same I think.
Thank you very much for the comprehensive reply! Much appreciated and cleared things up in my head. All the best.
Sorry for my dumb question but can I make it to a not so high voltage for a smaller version?! PLEASE PLEASE :'(
and in 2:13 what is that dark blue colour stuff
Those are vises (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vise). A vise is a tool for holding things while you work with them. Use any method you have for supporting the precipitator and the source of your smoke.
hello sir can this presipitator is worked by vdg generator .thank you.
It should work if your vdg is big enough. I got it working just barely with my commercially made Wimshurst machine with the 26cm disks. But based on that I'm pretty sure my small homemade soda can vdg won't make it work. I think my big vdg with the 15 inch dome would make it work though, since it's much more powerful than my Wimshurst machine.
What substance of smoke does stuck in the foil?
Awesome ! What ballpark of power consumption these things have?
To get it so there's no visible smoke coming out, I'd estimate 20kV * 250 microamps = 4 watts at the output from the power supply roughly. But there are probably a lot of parameters that can be played with like the density of the mesh, wire size, using plates instead of wires, diameter, spacing between the mesh and cylinder, ... I had it working with a Wimshurst machine last night which has much lower current, but there was still a little smoke coming out.
I just want to ask if what is earth ground? I mean is it just a sand like that? Or something?
It's usually soil with some moisture in it. Dry sand isn't a very good ground. It's really the ions in the soil which make it a fair electrical conductor and therefore a ground. The moisture helps the ions make the soil more conductive somehow.
What is the output from high voltage generator,is it Ac or Dc
It's around 21,000 volts DC. I measured it in this follow-up video ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html as well as show an easier way to power it using a Wimshurst machine.
Why do you need high voltage? Is there a way to precipitate on low voltage?
You need the high voltage firstly to ionize the smoke at the mesh. Just running electrons through the mesh at low voltage won't ionize the surrounding air. There's a minimum voltage you need for that. I don't know what it is though. But it's definitely not in the 240 volts or less range.
Is it possible to extract the positive terminal of an AA battery for the V+ of the aluminum foil and its negative terminal for the V- of the wire mesh? Asking for a research project thanks in advance
No, this requires around 21,000 volts, much more than the AA's 1.5 volts. Check out my follow-up video where I measure the voltage and show some options for powering it ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html.
RimstarOrg what do you meen in the ground
+Baker abdin Your high voltage power source should have two outputs. Connect one of them to the foil cylinder and connect the other one to the mesh. It doesn't matter which way, unless one of them is ground, then that one works best if it's connected to the mesh, I think.
In the case of my 30kV high voltage power supply the two outputs are high voltage positive and ground. That power supply ground is connected to the ground prong on the plug (here in North America it's the round one) that goes to the wall socket. But when I use my Wimshurst machine as the power source instead then the two outputs are high voltage positive and high voltage negative. You can see my Wimshurst machine being used at the bottom of my webpage here rimstar.org/science_electronics_projects/electrostatic_precipitator_smoke_precipitator_simple.htm
What are you using for a high voltage power source?
How many voltage does this it require? Please specify if it is alternative current(AC) or direct current (DC)
It requires around 21,000 volts DC. I don't know how much current. I've been asked this so often that I made this follow-up video ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html where I measure the voltage and demonstrate that it can be powered using a Wimshurst machine.
how much voltage should i use for this size ESP. Will powder coating equipment work for this purpose set at 30 KV.
I didn't measure the voltage but I suspect it was around 25kV. But having enough current is also important since that's what provides the charges to charge the particles. I don't know if powder coating equipment would work but I would guess it would since for powder coating it also has to supply charge, I think. I could be wrong.
Is there any scientific procedure included in the making of this?? ( for example capillary action) pls reply!!
The explanation I gave was the scientific one.
How is the High voltage connected through the aluminium foil? is it just barely in contact with each other? and as you mentioned in your video, the aluminium foil connected to a positive high voltage output, does that mean that both the negative and positive must be supplied with both high voltage of 10kV-20kV? Hope to get a quick response cause this is for a school project
+Darren Tan The wire is taped to the aluminum foil so it's a solid connection. You can see it in the video at 1:59. The negative can go through the power supply and be an actual high voltage negative or it can be a connection to ground as long as the power supplies positive is relative to ground (my power supply is that way.) So in the video I was using HV positive for the foil and ground for the mesh. Contrast that with where I used my Wimshurst machine where it is high voltage positive for the foil and high voltage negative for the mesh (in that case ground is somewhere between but it doesn't matter.)
Can i make a prototype electrostatic precipitator work using a 12V DC supply? What is the minimum voltage it requires to work? Thanks
No. The minimum voltage required for this one is 21,000V DC.
Thanks
Is it possible to make a BIGGER version of this? And are you able to wash off the grime from the aluminum so you can use it over and over again? I am very curious about this
+GUNVALKERIE It washes off easily with dish soap and hot water. I used aluminum foil which is pretty delicate but you could use a more solid aluminum instead. Keep in mind that this produces ozone as a bi-product, which is harmful in large doses. There is some voltage below which ozone isn't produced but I don't know what that voltage is; somewhere between 1kV and 10kV. It's the voltage that air ionizers that you can by in the store use but I don't know what it is. These electrostatic precipitators are used on a very large scale en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrostatic_precipitator.
I want to use this system by using batteries as DC sources,,,,So is there any to generate high voltage using batteries.....
Unfortunately, this needs around 21,000 volts and you can't combine batteries in any way to get that voltage. You can, however, use batteries to power a high voltage power supply of some sort. But have a look at my follow-up video where I test different power source for this smoke precipitator ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html.
I want to build an electrostatic precipitator for some experimentation on particle separation of about 100 microns. The two materials have similar resistivity and are similarly sized, so it is important to dial in the perfect spot where maximum separation occurs. If possible I would like to take some quantitative measurements of the current needed. Can you recommend a voltmeter and a cheap high power supply that I don't have to build that should work for my purposes?
For measuring current, use an analog meter (i.e. one with a needle display, not digital.) Digital meters don't work well or last long when connected along a high voltage wire in my experience. For high power supply, if you want to make your own then there's my "How to Make 30kV High Voltage DC Power Supply with Flyback & Cockcroft-Walton Multiplier Tripler". For buying one, I'm not aware of all online sources. amazing1.com/ has some, though if you're doing real research you might want one with current, as well as voltage control but I don't have any sources for you on those. They're basically lab power supplies.
Hi! I am really amazed by your work. However, i just would like to ask if HV power supply produces only a positive charge. And if so, how would I get a negative charge from the earth ground? Can you please help me and explain it to me. Thank you so much.
Sir I need your help,I would like to do this for a science fair but I don't know where to get this battery can you please tell
This is probably not a good project for a science fair. It doesn't capture all of the smoke and it also produces ozone. Ozone in small amounts isn't too harmful but during a science fair, you'll be producing a lot of it and that can be harmful.
Having said that, you need 21,000 volts which is far more than any battery can produce. I show some alternative ways of producing the high voltage in my follow-up video ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html The Wimshurst machine that I show there can be found on ebay.com by searching for "Wimshurst machine".
+Itz Yash A soda can Van de Graaff generator probably wouldn't be able to power it. One with a larger dome should be able to though. The same for Wimshurst machines. A Wimshurst machine made using CDs probably wouldn't be able to but one with larger disks should. My commercially made Wimshurst machine with 27cm diameter disks was able to power the precipitator.
PS. If you want people to be able to Reply to you directly then go to your Google+ settings and change the "who can reply to public posts" to Anyone.
+RimstarOrg I Am Having A Van de graaff with large dome..
So are u sure that it willl work..?
+Itz Yash I haven't tried it myself so I can't be sure it will work. However, if it's a big enough Van de Graaff then it should be comparable to my 27cm diameter Wimshurst machine. This precipitator is simple enough to build and try so you should try it and see. Let me know how it goes.
Please tell what should be the magnitude of voltages??
For this design it requires around 21,000 volts. I have this follow-up video where I show measuring it ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html
Can this reduces smoke smell also..?
I would think so since it's capturing all the soot but I'm not sure if what you smell is only the soot, maybe there's something else that doesn't get captured by the precipitator so I'm not sure.
@@RimstarOrg thank you for the reply. Does it requires high voltage Or I can use Batteries..?
I requires high voltage. I measure it and show some alterative power sources in my follow-up video here ruclips.net/video/ARSQWTzWago/видео.html