Your channel popped up and here I am! Subscribing my friend. Nicely done. Looking forward to more videos because got my coffee and settling in for a binge watch of your channel 😀 😊 Thank you!
You've done a very good documentary! I greatly enjoyed it. Just one correction: in the photo at 20:01-20:41, you listed Douglas Fairbanks, Sr. as one of the people in the photograph. Fairbanks, Sr. is not in the photo. It is movie comedian Jack Oakie between Mary Pickford and Joan Crawford. The other gentleman in the photo I don't recognize but he is not Douglas Fairbanks, Sr.
That is a rather weird picture with Mary Pickford in some sort of costume and the woman on the end (Indian headdress) According to a site identified with Joan Crawford, the picture is of Mary Pickford, Jack Oakie, Joan Crawford, Moss Hart and Polly Moran.
Any chance you will branch into short snapshots of some classic “Noir films”? My favourite by Joan Crawford is Sudden Fear! It is amazing if you have not seen it!
@@RadioWhoPoo Yes, definitely do something like the evolution of the noir genre as a starting point! How black and white films enhance the viewing experience especially for thrillers and suspense! What movie stars put noir on the map?
Crawford met Fairbanks backstage after seeing his performance in a play, By the time they co-starred in Our Modern Maidens, they had already been married.
Thank you so much! You're so kind. Pickford was a trailblazer for studio organization and film but one does wish she was as diplomatic with Joan. Doug Jr seemed like a womanizer, but he was well thought of in Hollywood circles until his death.
AAAAH !! HOLLYWOOD! MOST INTERESTING INDEED!! I REMEMBER ALL OR MOST HOLLYWOOD & BRITISH MOVIE STAR'S MY FORTE IN FILMS ! COMING FROM THE EAST . MY FAMILY ADORED ALL MOVIES OF THE WEST. MANY THANKS FOR THIS INFORMATION . I ENJOYED. GOOD OR BAD " HOLLYWOOD" RULED. FROM, U.K. (2023).
7:00 Mary Pickford's little-girl look was ☆FAMOUS! Infamous e.g. Bonny and Clyde, Hitler, Harvey Weinstein. Famous e.g. Julie Andrews, Sandra Bullock, Heath Ledger.
It's both famous and infamous. Pickford's normalization of the little girl look into her 30s was infamous. Why was there so much pressure for actresses to look so young, and how does it impact society today?
3:44 IF stag-film copies still exist, they'd surely have surfaced during film Mommy Dearest's wild turbulence; compare to turmoil with Marilyn Monroe and the nude calendar.
This is true, but it's been reported that MGM and other studio execs suppressed the reels and may have destroyed them. The reels would be old, nitrate film which is highly flammable
Joan Crawford was born in 1908 according to her, the state of Texas did not require birth certificates until 1908 and our Joan insisted on the smallest believable number.
Great comment. Yes Joanie (as she was known to her fans, of whom she was very fond and even sent cards and gifts for their weddings) was sensitive about her age
What about the rumors about the studio manipulating Doug Jr. to take Joan overseas on trips to prevent media from thinking there was trouble in their marriage?
❤🎉 Your channel came up in my suggestions, probably because I've rediscovered luscious Douglas Fairbanks Jr and the few movie gems I can find on yt. I can't believe how beautiful he is in "Safari" and his acting given his age in many early movies, was stunning and exquisite!! 😍😋❤ I really appreciate his acting and his charm is undeniable. 😊 Thanks for your videos!! 😁♥️
Yes, they said she was too self involved to be very maternal and she was quite old by then. It was In the nineteen forties and that would have put her in her fifties. She adopted them when they were babies and even with maids it must have been difficult. Her colleagues would have been grandparents by then. School events would have been awkward because of the age gap between her and her children and other parents. ❤️🙏💕❤️
@Christie Nelson So, true. Mary wanted to have kids with Fairbanks, but he wasn't up to the idea. But i don't know if things would have gone differently.
The Crawford/Gable two year affair was common knowledge to their studios, their contemporaries and most probably the public as well. Many of their trysts were carried on in the portable dressing room given her as a wedding gift by Douglas Fairbanks jr. who you seem to blame for the failed marriage. Fairbanks jr was only nineteen when he married Crawford. She made the first move, hand delivering a fan letter to him backstage at a play. Far from going off with his father, as you say, his father pretty much ignored him, never giving him gifts or affection and was actually jealous of his own son. Fairbanks jr. also started supporting his mother and six or seven of her relatives at a young age because she blew through the divorce settlement quickly. He admitted to seeing other women which of course was not right but it seems this began after Crawford started "working" early and late at the studio, renting a separate house to study Rain, and not providing him with her phone number. She refused to go on a honeymoon until much later when the studio paid for it. Crawford told Fairbanks jr. she would much rather have read about it than to have actually gone on the trip! As for wanting children, she made a public show of this but never actually wanted her own children because she feared pregnancies would change her looks which was not acceptable to her. Her career and anything that could make her a superstar were the driving forces here. You glaze over the fact that Fairbanks jr. gave her their house without mentioning that she had all his things moved out and had his agent take him to a hotel. All of which came as a complete surprise to him since they were joint owners. It's incredible that he did not fight this but most probably he didn't want to cause a fuss which was pretty typical behavior for him throughtout his life. You also seem to be dismissive of Douglas Fairbanks jr.'s acting ability while lauding Crawford's. Everyone has separate tastes so I won't debate this, but Fairbanks jr. did work at his acting seriously without any help or encouragement from his famous father who was nowhere near the actor his son eventually became. Fairbanks sr., in my opinion, was a superb athlete but an extremely limited actor whose main mode of expression was bending backwards - hands on hips - and laughing. Compare that with Fairbanks jr's Rupert of Hentzau in The Prisoner of Zenda which stole the movie then and still does now. Other than his very juvenile early films, his characters were nuanced and engaging. Real human beings rather than Fairbanks sr. caricatures. He was unfailingly courteous and generous with the people he worked with and self-deprecating. While you try to paint him in broad strokes as spoiled and entitled from what I've seen, the real person was far from that. He read extensively, spoke French fluently, wrote well and was a highly decorated war hero. (None of those would have applied to Crawford. In fact, Franchot Tone complained of her dismissing his love of opera!) I won't give you my opinion of Crawford's acting other than saying I thought Mildred Pierce was her best. The others are hard to watch. I'll leave it at that.
This is a lot of info and you should probably make your own video on the matter…Fairbanks jr neglected Crawford as he swept around London with artists and writers. He admitted he wasn’t faithful to her and she retaliated. He did not serve as a strong support for her at Pickfair. There is evidence Crawford had multiple abortions so she was likely worried about her career versus her figure. Crawford didn’t have an easy childhood and her marriage to Fairbanks jr brought stresses he didn’t seem able to understand, given Crawfords extreme poverty growing up.
@@RadioWhoPoo I don't plan on making entertainment videos but felt the need to comment on this one. You have this backwards. Crawford started the neglecting and he retaliated. All Crawford ever cared about was herself and her career. To be blunt, there is strong evidence of this. They were barely ever invited to Pickfair because Douglas Sr didn't like either one of them. Crawford married Douglas jr for his name and for any possible career advantages. He was honestly smitten with her while she never was with him. She was bored silly on their delayed honeymoon and actually told him she would have rather read about it. By all accounts, Crawford had no sense of humor and no intellectual curiosity. They were not well matched from the start but she did go to his play, did go backstage with a note and did ask for his photo. He did not know her at all before that. And what about the high handed possibly illegal way she had all his things moved out of their (jointly) owned home when he was filming The Narrow Corner. She had already given her "story" to several gossip columnists and had the whole mess staged as a poor wronged wife and never admitted to her nearly two year affair with Gable. Fairbanks jr. at least admitted what he did and was honestly ashamed. (I'm not suggesting that made it right) Crawford moved on to Franchot Tone afterwards and he couldn't get along with her, either. When Fairbanks jr married again it was for 49 years and he and Mary Lee had three daughters and a stable family. Crawford never achieved anything remotely like that.
With these long responses, it seems like you should put all this energy into a blog or something…Fairbanks jr admitted in an interview decades later he didn’t treat Crawford well. You can find it on RUclips. I suggest you dig into direct resources instead of falling for Mommy Dearest etc tropes. Joan’s letters and cards to her many fans prove that she wasn’t just career focused. She had a wonderful selfless marriage to a Pepsi executive before his death, you can read about their interior decoration endeavors together. Not quite the drama filled fever dream of a marriage! Thx
@@RadioWhoPoo Four years of her wonderful" marriage as you say. Then he died. All her four marriages lasted four years. You seem to contrast that with Douglas jr's 49 year happy marriage. Okay... Mayer threatened Crawford and Gable with suspension or worse if they didn't stop seeing each other. You seem to indicate this affair never happened. Okay... There are long sections in Douglas jr's first bio dealing with Crawford which you should read. He gave in to her reprehensible taking of their joint home because he didn't want the fuss. You seem to excuse her throwing him out which she had no right to do. As for his interview, I've seen many but not that one. I'll look for it. I've never read mommie dearest or seen the movie. I've never mentioned it. Douglas Fairbanks jr was a gracious kind person. Crawford did treat her fans well because she loved being worshipped. Crawford was all about Crawford. Four years with the pepsi executive don't prove she was selfless.
I really hope you write a blog or paper about this since you seem really passionate. In your first comment you say you’ll “leave it at that” but you’re clearly very attached to Fairbanks jr and argue repeatedly. Any further argumentative replies may be deleted.
@@RadioWhoPoo so are you citing one source? It is a big deal. To say Joan Crawford did a stag/pornographic film when she was young. I have read a lot about her. And this was never mentioned by anyone. Marilyn Monroe was said to have done one. Early in her career. And Marilyn did nude modeling. Joan Crawford was a dancer. And although there are scandals attached to her. I want to see evidence. Before I believe that. I wouldn't trust anyone's reputation to the word of a .com. where's the scholarly research??? On her behave. Even though I never knew her. I protest.
The video says it may have occurred, it was long rumored and Vanity Fair did a piece on it in 2017. I'm surprised you haven't heard about it....Pieces of the 16 mm were supposedly found a few years ago, you can find research done into whether her brother Hal may have leaked them or one of her early managers.
Please research Pickford. Please. You'll learn how very mistaken you are. Pickford laid the foundation for all actresses to come. She was an iconic actress and a brilliant business woman!
Your channel popped up and here I am! Subscribing my friend. Nicely done. Looking forward to more videos because got my coffee and settling in for a binge watch of your channel 😀 😊 Thank you!
I'm so glad! Thank you. Please relax and enjoy :)
More,give me more, I could listen to you talk about Joan Crawford all day. Thanks.
Aww thank you so much! Feel free to watch all videos in the WhoPoo playlist :)
You've done a very good documentary! I greatly enjoyed it. Just one correction: in the photo at 20:01-20:41, you listed Douglas Fairbanks, Sr. as one of the people in the photograph. Fairbanks, Sr. is not in the photo. It is movie comedian Jack Oakie between Mary Pickford and Joan Crawford. The other gentleman in the photo I don't recognize but he is not Douglas Fairbanks, Sr.
Thank you! Thought it looked like him but you're right, the photo quality wasn't the best
That is a rather weird picture with Mary Pickford in some sort of costume and the woman on the end (Indian headdress)
According to a site identified with Joan Crawford, the picture is of Mary Pickford, Jack Oakie, Joan Crawford, Moss Hart
and Polly Moran.
You did a great job with this video.
Thank you so much!
Any chance you will branch into short snapshots of some classic “Noir films”? My favourite by Joan Crawford is Sudden Fear! It is amazing if you have not seen it!
Sudden Fear is a great film. Give me some ideas, like the development of noir as a genre?
@@RadioWhoPoo Yes, definitely do something like the evolution of the noir genre as a starting point! How black and white films enhance the viewing experience especially for thrillers and suspense! What movie stars put noir on the map?
@@TheFlightLevel sounds like a good video idea for you!
@@NinjaGrrrl7734 Very interesting how American women (including film noir stars) are being erased over time.
Crawford met Fairbanks backstage after seeing his performance in a play, By the time they co-starred in Our Modern Maidens, they had already been married.
Really enjoying you and your research. ❤
I'm so glad, thank you!
Never saw a picture of Douglas Fairbanks Sr., first wife. Nice biography.
Thank you so much! Yes there are pictures of his first father in law as well, due to his wealth/activity on Wall Street
Your research is over the moon 🌙 🌚 ✨️ ♥️
Aww thank you! So sweet.
Another great one RWP!! Very well researched as usual!! Sounds like good old Pickford and Doug Jr were not nice folks [to saw the least]
Thank you so much! You're so kind. Pickford was a trailblazer for studio organization and film but one does wish she was as diplomatic with Joan. Doug Jr seemed like a womanizer, but he was well thought of in Hollywood circles until his death.
AAAAH !! HOLLYWOOD! MOST INTERESTING INDEED!! I REMEMBER ALL OR MOST HOLLYWOOD & BRITISH MOVIE STAR'S MY FORTE IN FILMS ! COMING FROM THE EAST . MY FAMILY ADORED ALL MOVIES OF THE WEST. MANY THANKS FOR THIS INFORMATION . I ENJOYED. GOOD OR BAD " HOLLYWOOD" RULED. FROM, U.K. (2023).
Glad you enjoyed it!
7:00 Mary Pickford's little-girl look was ☆FAMOUS! Infamous e.g. Bonny and Clyde, Hitler, Harvey Weinstein. Famous e.g. Julie Andrews, Sandra Bullock, Heath Ledger.
It's both famous and infamous. Pickford's normalization of the little girl look into her 30s was infamous. Why was there so much pressure for actresses to look so young, and how does it impact society today?
3:44 IF stag-film copies still exist, they'd surely have surfaced during film Mommy Dearest's wild turbulence; compare to turmoil with Marilyn Monroe and the nude calendar.
This is true, but it's been reported that MGM and other studio execs suppressed the reels and may have destroyed them. The reels would be old, nitrate film which is highly flammable
Joan Crawford was born in 1908 according to her, the state of Texas did not require birth certificates until 1908 and our Joan insisted on the smallest believable number.
Great comment. Yes Joanie (as she was known to her fans, of whom she was very fond and even sent cards and gifts for their weddings) was sensitive about her age
I believe she was actually born in 1898 or 1899.
What about the rumors about the studio manipulating Doug Jr. to take Joan overseas on trips to prevent media from thinking there was trouble in their marriage?
According to Doug Jr., the belated honeymoon in Europe was his and Joan's idea to jumpstart the marriage.
❤🎉 Your channel came up in my suggestions, probably because I've rediscovered luscious Douglas Fairbanks Jr and the few movie gems I can find on yt. I can't believe how beautiful he is in "Safari" and his acting given his age in many early movies, was stunning and exquisite!! 😍😋❤
I really appreciate his acting and his charm is undeniable. 😊
Thanks for your videos!! 😁♥️
You are so welcome! Thank you for watching :)
There is also another video on this channel with Douglas Fairbanks Jr., it is called "It Couple", if you are interested.
@@RadioWhoPoo Yes thank you I've since watched that one too. ❤️
Mary's adopted kids stated Mary was cold as well.
So true
Yes, they said she was too self involved to be very maternal and she was quite old by then. It was In the nineteen forties and that would have put her in her fifties. She adopted them when they were babies and even with maids it must have been difficult. Her colleagues would have been grandparents by then. School events would have been awkward because of the age gap between her and her children and other parents. ❤️🙏💕❤️
Great comment
@Christie Nelson So, true. Mary wanted to have kids with Fairbanks, but he wasn't up to the idea. But i don't know if things would have gone differently.
Looking at Mary Pickford curls it must have took long awful pain to get them curls,😲😫😣😦😲
Mary Pickford used leather curling rags to get the look!
@@RadioWhoPoo I think wigs were often used to save time and work.
@@akrenwinkle True!
Excellent biography of my favorite classic actress, Joan Crawford. It sounds as if Mary Pickford was a snob and a control freak.
Thank you so much!
Douglas Fairbanks Jr. Was very handsome. Too bad their marriage failed.
This is my first audio of yours. Seemed a little winded in places. A little extra silence?
What? Wtf
I always have had the impression that Buddy Rodgers , Mary Pickford’s other husband, was gay!!
Maybe!
Old gossip. Never really substantiated. It was the easiest way to hurt an actor.
Anna Pavlova was hardly a vaudeville performer
Pavlova was a regular on the American vaudeville circuit in 1916. See Hippodrome records.
Mary Miles Minter was a hundred times better looking than Mary Pickford
The Crawford/Gable two year affair was common knowledge to their studios, their contemporaries and most probably the public as well. Many of their trysts were carried on in the portable dressing room given her as a wedding gift by Douglas Fairbanks jr. who you seem to blame for the failed marriage. Fairbanks jr was only nineteen when he married Crawford. She made the first move, hand delivering a fan letter to him backstage at a play. Far from going off with his father, as you say, his father pretty much ignored him, never giving him gifts or affection and was actually jealous of his own son. Fairbanks jr. also started supporting his mother and six or seven of her relatives at a young age because she blew through the divorce settlement quickly. He admitted to seeing other women which of course was not right but it seems this began after Crawford started "working" early and late at the studio, renting a separate house to study Rain, and not providing him with her phone number. She refused to go on a honeymoon until much later when the studio paid for it. Crawford told Fairbanks jr. she would much rather have read about it than to have actually gone on the trip! As for wanting children, she made a public show of this but never actually wanted her own children because she feared pregnancies would change her looks which was not acceptable to her. Her career and anything that could make her a superstar were the driving forces here. You glaze over the fact that Fairbanks jr. gave her their house without mentioning that she had all his things moved out and had his agent take him to a hotel. All of which came as a complete surprise to him since they were joint owners. It's incredible that he did not fight this but most probably he didn't want to cause a fuss which was pretty typical behavior for him throughtout his life.
You also seem to be dismissive of Douglas Fairbanks jr.'s acting ability while lauding Crawford's. Everyone has separate tastes so I won't debate this, but Fairbanks jr. did work at his acting seriously without any help or encouragement from his famous father who was nowhere near the actor his son eventually became. Fairbanks sr., in my opinion, was a superb athlete but an extremely limited actor whose main mode of expression was bending backwards - hands on hips - and laughing. Compare that with Fairbanks jr's Rupert of Hentzau in The Prisoner of Zenda which stole the movie then and still does now. Other than his very juvenile early films, his characters were nuanced and engaging. Real human beings rather than Fairbanks sr. caricatures. He was unfailingly courteous and generous with the people he worked with and self-deprecating. While you try to paint him in broad strokes as spoiled and entitled from what I've seen, the real person was far from that. He read extensively, spoke French fluently, wrote well and was a highly decorated war hero. (None of those would have applied to Crawford. In fact, Franchot Tone complained of her dismissing his love of opera!) I won't give you my opinion of Crawford's acting other than saying I thought Mildred Pierce was her best. The others are hard to watch. I'll leave it at that.
This is a lot of info and you should probably make your own video on the matter…Fairbanks jr neglected Crawford as he swept around London with artists and writers. He admitted he wasn’t faithful to her and she retaliated. He did not serve as a strong support for her at Pickfair. There is evidence Crawford had multiple abortions so she was likely worried about her career versus her figure. Crawford didn’t have an easy childhood and her marriage to Fairbanks jr brought stresses he didn’t seem able to understand, given Crawfords extreme poverty growing up.
@@RadioWhoPoo I don't plan on making entertainment videos but felt the need to comment on this one. You have this backwards. Crawford started the neglecting and he retaliated. All Crawford ever cared about was herself and her career. To be blunt, there is strong evidence of this. They were barely ever invited to Pickfair because Douglas Sr didn't like either one of them. Crawford married Douglas jr for his name and for any possible career advantages. He was honestly smitten with her while she never was with him. She was bored silly on their delayed honeymoon and actually told him she would have rather read about it. By all accounts, Crawford had no sense of humor and no intellectual curiosity. They were not well matched from the start but she did go to his play, did go backstage with a note and did ask for his photo. He did not know her at all before that.
And what about the high handed possibly illegal way she had all his things moved out of their (jointly) owned home when he was filming The Narrow Corner. She had already given her "story" to several gossip columnists and had the whole mess staged as a poor wronged wife and never admitted to her nearly two year affair with Gable. Fairbanks jr. at least admitted what he did and was honestly ashamed. (I'm not suggesting that made it right) Crawford moved on to Franchot Tone afterwards and he couldn't get along with her, either. When Fairbanks jr married again it was for 49 years and he and Mary Lee had three daughters and a stable family. Crawford never achieved anything remotely like that.
With these long responses, it seems like you should put all this energy into a blog or something…Fairbanks jr admitted in an interview decades later he didn’t treat Crawford well. You can find it on RUclips. I suggest you dig into direct resources instead of falling for Mommy Dearest etc tropes. Joan’s letters and cards to her many fans prove that she wasn’t just career focused. She had a wonderful selfless marriage to a Pepsi executive before his death, you can read about their interior decoration endeavors together. Not quite the drama filled fever dream of a marriage! Thx
@@RadioWhoPoo Four years of her wonderful" marriage as you say. Then he died. All her four marriages lasted four years. You seem to contrast that with Douglas jr's 49 year happy marriage. Okay...
Mayer threatened Crawford and Gable with suspension or worse if they didn't stop seeing each other. You seem to indicate this affair never happened. Okay...
There are long sections in Douglas jr's first bio dealing with Crawford which you should read. He gave in to her reprehensible taking of their joint home because he didn't want the fuss. You seem to excuse her throwing him out which she had no right to do.
As for his interview, I've seen many but not that one. I'll look for it.
I've never read mommie dearest or seen the movie. I've never mentioned it. Douglas Fairbanks jr was a gracious kind person. Crawford did treat her fans well because she loved being worshipped. Crawford was all about Crawford. Four years with the pepsi executive don't prove she was selfless.
I really hope you write a blog or paper about this since you seem really passionate. In your first comment you say you’ll “leave it at that” but you’re clearly very attached to Fairbanks jr and argue repeatedly. Any further argumentative replies may be deleted.
Did they not have birth certs in those days,or maybe Joan did not like the thought of aging,rest in peace Joan,god bless you amen 😘💗🌹
They did but Joan's family was so poor I don't think they had hospital births, I vaguely remember reading her sister Daisy died very young :/
When you’re poor and your mother gives birth at home sometimes you didn’t bother to register the birth
They both came from rags to riches backgrounds Mary was hard on her because she was jealous of Joan 's Beauty and Sex Appeal
Immature people who cheat retaliate by cheating! Old story.
Pia Zadora leveled Pickfair in 1981, not the 1990s.
Destruction and construction of Pickfair occurred from 1988-1993, according to the Pickfair website. www.pickfair.com/pickfair-estate/
What stage film? I've never heard this gossip.....
Not gossip, all sources are listed in the description
@@RadioWhoPoo so are you citing one source? It is a big deal. To say Joan Crawford did a stag/pornographic film when she was young. I have read a lot about her. And this was never mentioned by anyone. Marilyn Monroe was said to have done one. Early in her career. And Marilyn did nude modeling. Joan Crawford was a dancer. And although there are scandals attached to her. I want to see evidence. Before I believe that. I wouldn't trust anyone's reputation to the word of a .com. where's the scholarly research??? On her behave. Even though I never knew her. I protest.
The video says it may have occurred, it was long rumored and Vanity Fair did a piece on it in 2017. I'm surprised you haven't heard about it....Pieces of the 16 mm were supposedly found a few years ago, you can find research done into whether her brother Hal may have leaked them or one of her early managers.
Sounds like Pickford and Crawford were both female narcissists.
They were both very strong women
CRAWFORD A REAL SUPERSTAR, Pikford was only a rich woman who married a celebrity
Please research Pickford. Please. You'll learn how very mistaken you are. Pickford laid the foundation for all actresses to come. She was an iconic actress and a brilliant business woman!
Well said, the Mary Pickford Foundation is a great place to start!
Interesting video; but totally amateurish narration. ‘Umm…”, “you know”, Mary Crawford?! Up your game!
Oh is that an offer to narrate for free? Thanks!
Beating children with wire hangers isn't a "style of parenting".
That didn't happen, I suggest you read some of her biographies rather than relying on "Mommy Dearest".