Waterloo is such an interesting area. Some quaint Victorian streets that i think pop up on tv and films with period settings. I could never walk past the station without hearing the Kinks on my inner jukebox. Fascinating information and footage as always.
Thanks so much David. I love Waterloo (and have a book published on the station if you’re interested! It’s called Waterloo, A History of London’s Busiest Terminus, Crowood Press 😉)
@@Robslondonthis is mad: I’ve been watching your videos on here for ages but had no idea you wrote that book. How do I know it? I took the picture of a mad-busy Waterloo on the cover of it! 😊
Hello Bob Greetings again from very war. Thailand 40c at this time, yes I am in the shade with the air-con Thanks again for the most interesting video. What is under the streets of London is mind-blowing When Shell operated their old headquarters, the staff had some fine facilities in the subterranean levels, one of which was a swimming pool, On visiting on one occasion to view it but not to use considering when it was built it put many swimming pools above ground level to shame. By coincidence as the Shell building circa 1962 its 62 years old as its 2024
Thanks Rob. I was fortunate enough to explore the abandoned areas underneath Waterloo station a few years ago when tendering a construction project. There’s still scars from the war like a partly melted brick wall after an incendiary bomb and areas used by families to shelter complete with graffiti.
That's an interesting one. I knew about the Tower Subway, which was roughly similar but certainly deviating by means of drive system. Happy Easter by the way!
The Samuda brothers were also involved in the some or all of the 4 atmospheric railways that were built (London to Croydon, down around Devon, one south of Dublin, Ireland, and one near Paris). Joe Brennan has an excellent series on the 4 roads in "The Atmospheric Road" on his website. I'll put the URL in a separate post lest it be eaten by the YT goblins. Great story here - thanks!
Thanks for this information- really interesting, I had no idea! I guess it makes sense that a certain company would specialise in the new tech. Much appreciated ;-)
Someone back in the mid 1800s could be forgiven for thinking it possible to upscale the idea of a pneumatic railway beyond what was demonstrated at Crystal Palace. However, only someone with a complete lack of understanding of physics, or knowledge of history would think it could ever have been a possibility. The problem of sealing against the tunnel wall would probably have been the biggest obstacle - they probably used leather back then as Brunel did with the atmospheric pipe on his railway in Devon, which would have worn out very quickly. Then there's the amount of compressed air that would be needed. Just for a mile of track, that's a volume equal to one mile x pi x the radius of the tunnel squared, and that air has got to be compressed sufficiently to overcome initial friction from the stationary train and keep it moving against the friction of the wheels on the rails and the tight seal against the tunnel wall. Then there's the matter of marshalling the stock at each station, and what do you do when the train emerges into an open section, or would you go to the expense of tunnelling even when it wasn't strictly necessary? No, it would never have expanded to form the propulsion of ANY of the future London Underground lines, even the Waterloo and City. Edit: I've noticed a few other comments regarding the atmospheric railways. I was, of course, only referring to this one as a pneumatic railway, as it was the entire carriage that formed the 'piston'. The atmospheric railways were more successful as the design had less inherent flaws, and could probably have been made much more successful with more modern materials. After all, we launch fighter jets of aircraft carriers using a similar system even today.
Another really interesting subject Rob. I noticed on one of your shots of the Waterloo & City line the old Network SouthEast logo etched into some of the platform stones. Glad to see some of this logo survives as it was always my favourite! Thanks again for the effort you put into your research.
Great video Rob. Such an advanced project for it's time and such a shame it was never completed. Looking forward to watching more of your fantastic videos. Would be great to see something on the Docklands Light Railway.
Great video. I wonder if there are health effects of high pressure air leaking into the carriages. New York had a pneumatic experimental line that also never worked out, it features in "Ghost Busters II".
Thanks so much- great comment. Interesting thoughts on the high pressure leak... one of my earliest videos looked at the history of the Glasgow Subway, and during construction (which used high pressure for tunnelling) there was indeed such a leak which made people in a property above ground unwell. And I had no idea the New York experimental line featured in Ghostbusters II! Haven't seen that in years, will have to watch it now :-D Cheers Karl and stay well!
@@Robslondonghostbusters implied it was a long complex system with multiple stations. In reality it ran a block under Broadway and was demolished when the current City Hall station on the R and W was built. In the subject, the Pneumatic Transit was actually also featured in the third “An American Tail” film and the 2012 version of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles cartoon.
So, one of your videos randomly popped up on my feed this morning...(the Scotland Yard vid) and I was hooked!! I have sub'd to your channel and look forward to binging your vids. Have a great week.
I know the founders of one of the HyperLoop companies. Another great idea that (I'm sure) will meet the same faith as this "railway." As always, a very interesting and well researched video!
Fascinating Rob, makes me wonder if pneumatic transport might not be the environmentally friendly, public transport solution of the future? You never know! Thank you for another great historical visit.
There was another scheme like this in New York City--the Beech Pneumatic Transit scheme, which actually dug a one block subway tunnel under Broadway and operated for some time as an exposition of the technology.
@@andrewweitzman4006 Yes! The New York pneumatic railway has long fascinated me! I briefly mentioned it in one of my older videos... can't remember which one though!!
Brilliant research as always Rob. Yes, it really would of been interesting how that may of shaped the way we cross London by rail. I think though it may be more interesting to think id the line would of at some time be flooded and abandonded. Givem 150 years of salt water erosion and all the river traffic at high and low tides, the expense of keeping it dry would be huge by modern standards. A;; the best as always to you and family Rob. Until next time stay safe..
Hi John! Good to see you my friend, hope you're keeping well? Thanks so much for the kind words. I agree with you; I imagine such a line would have fallen into disuse... but you never know, in an alternative reality... ;-) Thanks again mate and stay well.
Very interesting video Rob. Never heard of the idea of this line.before. One can only wonder, even if it had been built, how such tiny little carriages as shown in your illustrations could have coped with the vast number of people arriving at Waterloo main line station who might have wanted to use this line as a route to cross the Thames to Whitehall.
I’m currently reading London’s Lost Tube Schemes by Antony Badsey-Ellis. This documents literally dozens of underground railway ideas that were proposed in London. The engineer behind the Crystal Palace railway and Pneumatic Despatch Company was Thomas Webster Rammell. He was also involved in The Oxford Street & City Railway, The Hyde Park Railway, The South Kensington Railway, The Mid-Metropolitan Railway, and both the South Kensington & Knightsbridge & Marble Arch Subways as well as the Waterloo & Whitehall Railway. He was an advocate of pneumatic railways but sadly pretty much all of his schemes came to nought and by 1885 he had called it a day.
@@thewrecker3140@Robslondon My apologies for leaving that out. It was, as always, most excellent work. Thanks Rob and enjoy the book if you find a copy.
I never knew about this project Rob and although it was a failure I’m always staggered by the enterprise and inventiveness of our Victorian ancestors. As you no doubt know, the great Brunel built an atmospheric railway between Exeter and Newton Abbot in the 1940s, which was modelled on an earlier one in Ireland. Brunel’s system kept on breaking down and was abandoned. Ideas before their time.
Thats so interesting. Must have involved a lot of research. Another you tuber has just posted one about I K Brunels try. I havent watched that one yet. Seems that it was a great idea but they didnt have the level of tech needed back then.
Brilliant video as always. My home city is Sheffield. On my last visit to London I noticed a Sheffield Street, just up from the strand. I was wondering if you had any history on Sheffield Street? Or if you could feature it in a future video. All the best Mat
Thank you so much Mat. I'm not entirely sure where Sheffield Street come from, although in centuries past noble folk from other parts of the country built large houses in the area to use when they were in London (as it was fashionable to be close to the Thames), and quite a few streets around the Strand reference those now long lost mansions (Exeter Street, Buckingham Street, York Buildings, Northumberland Avenue etc- Somerset House is the only one which remains)... so I imagine that is perhaps where the name comes from! Cheers and stay well ;-)
I have been through Waterloo many many times it's an interesting thought the whole system could have been a lot larger than it is I wonder if it could have helped in the current situation of the roads as they are currently. So many stations are disused 40 of them last count maybe not as sure repair budgets are the reason behind it other than claimed network changes.
This dig was to find Rammell's atmospheric railway in Crystal Palace, we had found something, which was fall of water and this was by Brunel in origin.
Just finished reading the Waterloo book. Towards the end, there is a section devoted to film and TV. Am I right in thinking that Waterloo featured in Alfie ? The scene does look like the station but actually could be Victoria. Caine returns to London by train after a spell in a sanitorium.
Thanks so much Maurice! That’s a good spot! I have a feeling it may be Victoria as you say, not seen the film in a long time… Waterloo bridge famously features at the end of course though for sure 😉
I'm a bit late to the party this week, Rob, but just wanted to compliment you for another great piece of work! I never knew that Waterloo was not intended to be the end of the line - I wonder if, in a couple of hundred years' time, a descendant of mine will be posting in the comments of a RUclips channel of a descendant of yours to say that they never knew HS2 was not designed to terminate at Old Oak Common and had originally been planned to continue right through to Euston...!!! 😉
Hello Rob, I bought your 2 books via Amazon recently :-) Greatly entertaining and fabulous research!! I sent you an email recently regarding the order, as I cannot figure out how to send you a private message through RUclips. I was wondering if you found it? Thank you in advance.
Hello Eleanor, thank you so much- I really appreciate your custom! :-) Unfortunately I've not received your email as far as I can see... which one did you use? (roblordan@gmail.com is the one I check most regularly).
@Robslondon Hello, yes, I used that email address. I just resent the email now, maybe it went to spam? I think the Waterloo book may be out of stock? Thanks in advance, Maria
As with the atmospheric railway, the concept was right, but the technology hadn't developed sufficiently for it to work. What was needed, rather than atmospheric power, was electric power. So, rather than power stations creating a vacuum or pressure, they needed to make electricity. Once you had that, the deep tubes would work. As would the South Devon Railway with all those hills. Wikipedia claims that the first example of an "immersed tube tunnel" built to carry traffic was the Michigan Central Railway Tunnel constructed in 1910 under the Detroit River. Samuda's pipe was fifty years earlier than this. Thanks for a fascinating video, Rob.
Would have been great if it had been built, but I think it would have been a "one off" for London underground lines. The problem is to get a good seal for the air pressure to drive the carriage forward efficiently. The system would work all right for short distances, but for longer distances and full length trains it wouldn't be suitable with the technology of the day.
Bit like an air gun with people in it!I'd imagine even today you'd need a lot of power to develop such a huge volume of air.Maybe the Dundee journalist was just angry because they weren't going to build it under the Tay!
Thanks for this video. Ultimately I'm glad this project failed as, the pneumatic cab in the picture has far less seats than a Victoria Line train and one of those vehicles every 3-4 minutes would not be able to have the same sort of throughput that one Victoria Line train every 90 seconds has. That means the service would have needed to have been replaced by something using electrified traction, at some point. I think that the Jubilee Line Extension is probably the modern version of the Waterloo & Whitehall Railway, as it has a nearly identical route. So maybe the passenger figures for those two stations could be looked at, to see what the Waterloo & Whitehall Railway would need to be doing today, if it was built and was still around.
I’m new to the channel and must’ve been sent here by the logarithm as I watch Jago Hazzard. However, I kept scrolling past it as I thought the red border around the border of the thumbnail meant I had seen it before. Something for you to think about. I’m off to watch the vid now.
Brother, I have to ask what your accent is. As a lifetime south west londoner, I've come across accents like yours hundreds of times, but I don't know where it comes from. Your precision and emphasis in pronouncing the ends of consonants at the end of words or syllables is admirable (wasntT, thaT, hearT, haD, anD, shorT, iT, withouT, scoTlanD yarD, abuTTmenT). Having written it down, it seems to be more common on Ts and Ds. I've definitely come across it from peeps from North London, and north west London but I don't know where you're from, or if that's an accurate generalisation To be clear, I'm not being critical at all. You're speaking very precisely, and that's admirable. Please help! Dave PS thank you for your vids
Thanks for the kind words Dave! I grew up in Harrow, so yes north-west London 😉 This is my video voice though, so I do take extra care when pronouncing certain words and letters, I’m not so clear when speaking normally!
@@Robslondon Yes, a rather nice pool and the staff restaurant was superb, incredible good value, if you were single a three course meal would set you up for the rest of the day no need to cook in the evening. Those were the days when employers cared for their employees, Shell had a large Sports ground in Teddington with fantastic facilities including a swimming pool and about 30 different activities and sports including a sub aqua club. The sports ground was a project of a Dutch Chairman, 1920s? However in the Thatcher years with a British management profit and bonus focused the club was run down and eventually sold. Epitomised Thatcher’s philosophy encapsulated by the expression, “cost of everything, value of nothing.”
Great history, thank you. At the same time you posted this video about a train driven by air pressure, Paul Whitewick posted a video about a train driven by air pressure. Here is his video : ruclips.net/video/5ahdgcQd_ck/видео.html Both videos are great compliments to each other, because yours is about a fully enclosed tunnel, while Paul's is about a tube between the rails holding the air-pressure (vacume).
It would, I'm sure, be as interesting as your other videos, if not for the fact that the subtitles disappear at the edit after the title card. I hope you can fix this. from one Rob to another.
It's interesting how this idea resurfaced quite recently as the "hyperloop"; though many people think Elon Musk, who owns a car company, came up with the idea to scupper high speed rail in California. For reasons! I honestly can't imagine why the CEO of a car company would want to scupper high speed rail... oh.
A comment from a different Rob. I like your work and its presentation. However, this video has a critical flaw. The subtitles do not work for the first ~1 minute - the period when you are setting the scene. As a deaf viewer this makes the video useless to me and I'm sure many others. I look forward to catching up once you've fixed the problem.
The Victorians were something else again, our sewerage system and so many other projects were thought of. The modern London authorities are pale by comparison.
Fantastic facts 🇬🇧⁉️ We that know it, think you do a brilliant job, sharing the old facts, of our LONDON 😍🇬🇧🙏 HAPPY EASTER ROB🙏 AND LET'S HOPE THAT ITS KHANS WATERLOO. EVERYONE'S VOTE'S COUNT🆘🎬🇬🇧💯 P,S, YOUR A STAR BRUV❤️💪
Occurring in around 1866 - A good 130 years before the UKs first _successful_ immersed tube tunnel carrying the A55 between Conwy and Llandudno Junction - If this project had succeeded, the UK would've had had the first example of a _World beating_ tunneling technology, too! 🚇🇬🇧🥇 As it is, I _think_ that record eventually went to the Dutch, though the BART tunnel across the San-Francisco bay (1970s) might've been the first in a common-law country. 😇
![ROSÉ (로제) - number one girl [더 시즌즈-이영지의 레인보우] | KBS 241129 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/A9oByH9Ci24/mqdefault.jpg)
Waterloo is such an interesting area. Some quaint Victorian streets that i think pop up on tv and films with period settings. I could never walk past the station without hearing the Kinks on my inner jukebox. Fascinating information and footage as always.
Thanks so much David.
I love Waterloo (and have a book published on the station if you’re interested! It’s called Waterloo, A History of London’s Busiest Terminus, Crowood Press 😉)
@@Robslondonthis is mad: I’ve been watching your videos on here for ages but had no idea you wrote that book. How do I know it? I took the picture of a mad-busy Waterloo on the cover of it! 😊
@@GreenyBlues Oh my word! That was you?!! Much respect GreenyBlues 😀A fantastic image. Thank you sir.
I wish i'd had more time when visiting, but it was always 'on the way to somewhere'
Waterloo's sunset fine😂, great video yet again Rob♥️😁
Another great Sunday evening viewing. Lovely work as always Rob.
Much appreciated Paul, thanks! Hope you're keeping well.
Nice work, Rob.
Jago Hazzard would be proud!
😉
Thanks Bryan.
Thanks Bryan.
Jago Hazard would be well gel Lol.
🤣
I just enjoyed another one of your brilliant videos, thanks rob.👍
Thank you!
Hello Bob
Greetings again from very war. Thailand 40c at this time, yes I am in the shade with the air-con
Thanks again for the most interesting video. What is under the streets of London is mind-blowing
When Shell operated their old headquarters, the staff had some fine facilities in the subterranean levels, one of which was a swimming pool, On visiting on one occasion to view it but not to use considering when it was built it put many swimming pools above ground level to shame.
By coincidence as the Shell building circa 1962 its 62 years old as its 2024
Thanks Butch. I’ve always wanted to see inside there; have heard about the swimming pool! Hope you’re keeping cool 😉
Another excellent Sunday evening video.
Much appreciated Paul, thank you.
Thanks Rob. I was fortunate enough to explore the abandoned areas underneath Waterloo station a few years ago when tendering a construction project.
There’s still scars from the war like a partly melted brick wall after an incendiary bomb and areas used by families to shelter complete with graffiti.
Thanks Doug! Yes, I’ve been lucky enough to venture down there too… incredible place 😉
That's an interesting one. I knew about the Tower Subway, which was roughly similar but certainly deviating by means of drive system. Happy Easter by the way!
Thanks! And happy Easter to you too ☺️
Thanks Rob.
Another interesting video.
It’s a pleasure Adrian, thanks for watching.
Thanks for another great video, Rob! Never heard about this project.
It's a pleasure youleks! Thanks so much for watching :-)
Hi Rob, Hope you are doing well, Happy Easter to you. Thank you for another interesting and fantastic video, Really enjoying your content, Thank you
Dave! Thank you so much. I really appreciate your kindness - and happy Easter to you too my friend. Thanks again and stay well.
The Samuda brothers were also involved in the some or all of the 4 atmospheric railways that were built (London to Croydon, down around Devon, one south of Dublin, Ireland, and one near Paris). Joe Brennan has an excellent series on the 4 roads in "The Atmospheric Road" on his website. I'll put the URL in a separate post lest it be eaten by the YT goblins. Great story here - thanks!
Thanks for this information- really interesting, I had no idea! I guess it makes sense that a certain company would specialise in the new tech.
Much appreciated ;-)
Thanks for another fun and interesting video.
Thank you SeventhSwell!
Thanks Rob for a very interesting and well made video.
Much appreciated, thank you ☺️
Bravo Bob. Another cracking film.
Thank you! 🤩
well done rob great vlog sir as always and thanks for putting in the leg work for us
It’s a pleasure as always Richard! Thanks for watching 😉
@@Robslondon many thanks rob well done sir
Meticulously researched, well presented, and beautifully filmed. Thanks Rob.
I really appreciate those kind words Jake, thank you.
Great and interesting sharing. Thank you Robert 👍👍👍😍😍😍
Hey, thank you as always Sharon! 😄
Great video , another bit of obscure London history we now know about , one so admires Victorian ingenuity and visions of those times.
Thank you so much Keith
Really..beautifully presented and researched. Thank, you Rob.!
Thank you so much ☺️
Someone back in the mid 1800s could be forgiven for thinking it possible to upscale the idea of a pneumatic railway beyond what was demonstrated at Crystal Palace. However, only someone with a complete lack of understanding of physics, or knowledge of history would think it could ever have been a possibility. The problem of sealing against the tunnel wall would probably have been the biggest obstacle - they probably used leather back then as Brunel did with the atmospheric pipe on his railway in Devon, which would have worn out very quickly. Then there's the amount of compressed air that would be needed. Just for a mile of track, that's a volume equal to one mile x pi x the radius of the tunnel squared, and that air has got to be compressed sufficiently to overcome initial friction from the stationary train and keep it moving against the friction of the wheels on the rails and the tight seal against the tunnel wall. Then there's the matter of marshalling the stock at each station, and what do you do when the train emerges into an open section, or would you go to the expense of tunnelling even when it wasn't strictly necessary? No, it would never have expanded to form the propulsion of ANY of the future London Underground lines, even the Waterloo and City.
Edit: I've noticed a few other comments regarding the atmospheric railways. I was, of course, only referring to this one as a pneumatic railway, as it was the entire carriage that formed the 'piston'. The atmospheric railways were more successful as the design had less inherent flaws, and could probably have been made much more successful with more modern materials. After all, we launch fighter jets of aircraft carriers using a similar system even today.
Interesting thoughts, thanks.
Another really interesting subject Rob. I noticed on one of your shots of the Waterloo & City line the old Network SouthEast logo etched into some of the platform stones. Glad to see some of this logo survives as it was always my favourite! Thanks again for the effort you put into your research.
Thank you so much; a lovely comment :-) And yes! Well spotted with the old Network South East logo... long may it remain ;-)
Another great video, all of them very informative.
Thank you so much :-)
Great video Rob. Such an advanced project for it's time and such a shame it was never completed. Looking forward to watching more of your fantastic videos.
Would be great to see something on the Docklands Light Railway.
Thanks so much dabsan. I have toyed with the idea of doing a video on the history of the DLR... will probably happen at some point ;-)
Another eye opener for me, never knew about it.
Thanks Michael :-)
Great video. I wonder if there are health effects of high pressure air leaking into the carriages. New York had a pneumatic experimental line that also never worked out, it features in "Ghost Busters II".
Thanks so much- great comment.
Interesting thoughts on the high pressure leak... one of my earliest videos looked at the history of the Glasgow Subway, and during construction (which used high pressure for tunnelling) there was indeed such a leak which made people in a property above ground unwell.
And I had no idea the New York experimental line featured in Ghostbusters II! Haven't seen that in years, will have to watch it now :-D
Cheers Karl and stay well!
@@Robslondonghostbusters implied it was a long complex system with multiple stations. In reality it ran a block under Broadway and was demolished when the current City Hall station on the R and W was built.
In the subject, the Pneumatic Transit was actually also featured in the third “An American Tail” film and the 2012 version of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles cartoon.
@@metropod That's great, thank you.
Thia has to be one of your most fascinating videos so far Rob... and that's really saying something!
That’s so kind of you to say Gazellekaz, much appreciated; thank you! ☺️
Thanks Rob, this made my Sunday !
Ah! Bless you Neil 😄 Really appreciate that, cheers and stay well.
A project that is new to me. Well done.
Thanks Robbojax 😊 Hope you’re keeping well.
So, one of your videos randomly popped up on my feed this morning...(the Scotland Yard vid) and I was hooked!! I have sub'd to your channel and look forward to binging your vids. Have a great week.
Ah! Many thanks indeed Raymond, much appreciated! And it’s good to have you here. Cheers and stay well.
I used to live near Crystal Palace. Back in the '70s the local paper was full of stories of different groups trying to find the pneumatic railway.
Yes, it’s a big thing there isn’t it!
I can't lie, Rob. I laughed so hard I started wheezing at the title. Excellent video as always my friend.
P.S. I now have an earworm. The Kinks . I think you can guess which song !
Ha ha! Thank you! ;-)
A good earworm to have ;-) Love the Kinks.
Honestly, your videos are so interesting. Thanks 😊❤
Thank you so much Maz 😉
First class as always.
Thanks!
Great video agsin Rob
Thanks Terry 😉
I know the founders of one of the HyperLoop companies. Another great idea that (I'm sure) will meet the same faith as this "railway." As always, a very interesting and well researched video!
Thank you so much persjofors, nice comment.
@@Robslondon Thanks. In early days preparing to move back to London (from Los Angeles.)
@@persjofors2586 That's quite a move! Hope it goes well for you.
Fascinating Rob, makes me wonder if pneumatic transport might not be the environmentally friendly, public transport solution of the future? You never know! Thank you for another great historical visit.
Thank you Anne- and a very interesting point!
There was another scheme like this in New York City--the Beech Pneumatic Transit scheme, which actually dug a one block subway tunnel under Broadway and operated for some time as an exposition of the technology.
@@andrewweitzman4006 Yes! The New York pneumatic railway has long fascinated me! I briefly mentioned it in one of my older videos... can't remember which one though!!
Compliments your Waterloo book nicely
Thanks Maurice
@@Robslondon It's a fine read. About half way through the book now.
@@maurice8607 I really appreciate that Maurice, thank you.
@@Robslondon How about one on Liverpool Street next?
@@maurice8607 A book or video? Ha ha ;-) I'll certainly be covering Liverpool Street on the channel at some point.
Brilliant research as always Rob. Yes, it really would of been interesting how that may of shaped the way we cross London by rail. I think though it may be more interesting to think id the line would of at some time be flooded and abandonded. Givem 150 years of salt water erosion and all the river traffic at high and low tides, the expense of keeping it dry would be huge by modern standards. A;; the best as always to you and family Rob. Until next time stay safe..
Hi John! Good to see you my friend, hope you're keeping well?
Thanks so much for the kind words. I agree with you; I imagine such a line would have fallen into disuse... but you never know, in an alternative reality... ;-)
Thanks again mate and stay well.
Very interesting video Rob. Never heard of the idea of this line.before. One can only wonder, even if it had been built, how such tiny little carriages as shown in your illustrations could have coped with the vast number of people arriving at Waterloo main line station who might have wanted to use this line as a route to cross the Thames to Whitehall.
Many thanks Trevor- great comment and interesting thoughts… I think the capacity would have indeed been lacking as you say!
I’m currently reading London’s Lost Tube Schemes by Antony Badsey-Ellis.
This documents literally dozens of underground railway ideas that were proposed in London.
The engineer behind the Crystal Palace railway and Pneumatic Despatch Company was Thomas Webster Rammell.
He was also involved in The Oxford Street & City Railway, The Hyde Park Railway, The South Kensington Railway, The Mid-Metropolitan Railway, and both the South Kensington & Knightsbridge & Marble Arch Subways as well as the Waterloo & Whitehall Railway.
He was an advocate of pneumatic railways but sadly pretty much all of his schemes came to nought and by 1885 he had called it a day.
Sounds like an interesting book! Will have to look it up. Thanks Damian.
All very interesting but what did you think of this very informative Video.
@@thewrecker3140@Robslondon My apologies for leaving that out.
It was, as always, most excellent work.
Thanks Rob and enjoy the book if you find a copy.
Damian your a gentlemen.
@@damianharris2167 Cheers mate ;-)
Great video as always! 😎
Thank you asheland!
@@Robslondon you’re welcome 😊
I never knew about this project Rob and although it was a failure I’m always staggered by the enterprise and inventiveness of our Victorian ancestors. As you no doubt know, the great Brunel built an atmospheric railway between Exeter and Newton Abbot in the 1940s, which was modelled on an earlier one in Ireland. Brunel’s system kept on breaking down and was abandoned. Ideas before their time.
Thank you so much Mark. I’m planning on devoting a video to Brunel very soon, he was incredible.
@@Robslondon I’ll look forward to that then. I’m distantly related to Brunel’s wife, Mary Elizabeth Horsley.
@@markshrimpton3138 Wow! That is an incredible connection to have!
@@Robslondon yes it is. Her grandfather was my 5x great grandfather.
1840s surely.
Thats so interesting. Must have involved a lot of research. Another you tuber has just posted one about I K Brunels try. I havent watched that one yet. Seems that it was a great idea but they didnt have the level of tech needed back then.
Thanks so much Jane. Yes, in a lot of cases it seems they were maybe just a little too ahead of their time for the ideas to work.
Brilliant video as always. My home city is Sheffield. On my last visit to London I noticed a Sheffield Street, just up from the strand.
I was wondering if you had any history on Sheffield Street? Or if you could feature it in a future video.
All the best
Mat
Thank you so much Mat.
I'm not entirely sure where Sheffield Street come from, although in centuries past noble folk from other parts of the country built large houses in the area to use when they were in London (as it was fashionable to be close to the Thames), and quite a few streets around the Strand reference those now long lost mansions (Exeter Street, Buckingham Street, York Buildings, Northumberland Avenue etc- Somerset House is the only one which remains)... so I imagine that is perhaps where the name comes from!
Cheers and stay well ;-)
I have been through Waterloo many many times it's an interesting thought the whole system could have been a lot larger than it is I wonder if it could have helped in the current situation of the roads as they are currently. So many stations are disused 40 of them last count maybe not as sure repair budgets are the reason behind it other than claimed network changes.
Interesting thoughts, thank you
Thanks rob
Thanks John!
Hi Rob, years back I had once gone on a dig with others to try and find that.
Oh wow... did you find anything Jody? I know things were discovered in the early 60s but don't know what happened to whatever was found- any ideas?
This dig was to find Rammell's atmospheric railway in Crystal Palace, we
had found something, which was fall of water and this was by Brunel in origin.
@@jodypitt3629 Fascinating ;-)
Interesting.
Thank you
Such an interesting idea
😄
Just finished reading the Waterloo book. Towards the end, there is a section devoted to film and TV. Am I right in thinking that Waterloo featured in Alfie ? The scene does look like the station but actually could be Victoria. Caine returns to London by train after a spell in a sanitorium.
Thanks so much Maurice! That’s a good spot! I have a feeling it may be Victoria as you say, not seen the film in a long time… Waterloo bridge famously features at the end of course though for sure 😉
@@Robslondon I always assumed it was Waterloo but as it wasn't in your book, it might well be Victoria.
I'm a bit late to the party this week, Rob, but just wanted to compliment you for another great piece of work! I never knew that Waterloo was not intended to be the end of the line - I wonder if, in a couple of hundred years' time, a descendant of mine will be posting in the comments of a RUclips channel of a descendant of yours to say that they never knew HS2 was not designed to terminate at Old Oak Common and had originally been planned to continue right through to Euston...!!! 😉
Thank you so much! And yes... regarding HS2, I can certainly see that occurring in the future! :-)
Hello Rob, I bought your 2 books via Amazon recently :-) Greatly entertaining and fabulous research!! I sent you an email recently regarding the order, as I cannot figure out how to send you a private message through RUclips. I was wondering if you found it? Thank you in advance.
Hello Eleanor, thank you so much- I really appreciate your custom! :-)
Unfortunately I've not received your email as far as I can see... which one did you use? (roblordan@gmail.com is the one I check most regularly).
@Robslondon Hello, yes, I used that email address. I just resent the email now, maybe it went to spam? I think the Waterloo book may be out of stock? Thanks in advance, Maria
As with the atmospheric railway, the concept was right, but the technology hadn't developed sufficiently for it to work. What was needed, rather than atmospheric power, was electric power. So, rather than power stations creating a vacuum or pressure, they needed to make electricity. Once you had that, the deep tubes would work. As would the South Devon Railway with all those hills. Wikipedia claims that the first example of an "immersed tube tunnel" built to carry traffic was the Michigan Central Railway Tunnel constructed in 1910 under the Detroit River. Samuda's pipe was fifty years earlier than this. Thanks for a fascinating video, Rob.
Thanks ;-)
London Eye I must go for a ride on that soon :)
Go for it 😉
The shell centre looks interesting.
Yes, it has an underground swimming pool! 😉
Would have been great if it had been built, but I think it would have been a "one off" for London underground lines. The problem is to get a good seal for the air pressure to drive the carriage forward efficiently. The system would work all right for short distances, but for longer distances and full length trains it wouldn't be suitable with the technology of the day.
Yes, very much agreed Ian.
Interesting video
Thanks ;-)
Thanks Rob :) Buy yourself half a coffee :)
Really appreciate that, thank you! ☕️😄
@@Robslondon wish i could afford more mate, your videos are always a joy
Very interesting shame it was shelved might have been a better tube to travel on.
Good research as always thank you my sun day is complete ❤️❤️❤️
Thanks so much Tracy! Yes, would’ve been interesting if they took off 😉
Bit like an air gun with people in it!I'd imagine even today you'd need a lot of power to develop such a huge volume of air.Maybe the Dundee journalist was just angry because they weren't going to build it under the Tay!
Ha ha! superb comment Kevan ;-)
Thanks for this video. Ultimately I'm glad this project failed as, the pneumatic cab in the picture has far less seats than a Victoria Line train and one of those vehicles every 3-4 minutes would not be able to have the same sort of throughput that one Victoria Line train every 90 seconds has. That means the service would have needed to have been replaced by something using electrified traction, at some point.
I think that the Jubilee Line Extension is probably the modern version of the Waterloo & Whitehall Railway, as it has a nearly identical route. So maybe the passenger figures for those two stations could be looked at, to see what the Waterloo & Whitehall Railway would need to be doing today, if it was built and was still around.
Interesting thoughts David, thank you
I’m new to the channel and must’ve been sent here by the logarithm as I watch Jago Hazzard. However, I kept scrolling past it as I thought the red border around the border of the thumbnail meant I had seen it before. Something for you to think about. I’m off to watch the vid now.
Ah, good point Peter- thank you. Much appreciated, and it’s good to have you here. Thanks again, hope you enjoy the video 😉
Brother, I have to ask what your accent is.
As a lifetime south west londoner, I've come across accents like yours hundreds of times, but I don't know where it comes from.
Your precision and emphasis in pronouncing the ends of consonants at the end of words or syllables is admirable (wasntT, thaT, hearT, haD, anD, shorT, iT, withouT, scoTlanD yarD, abuTTmenT).
Having written it down, it seems to be more common on Ts and Ds.
I've definitely come across it from peeps from North London, and north west London but I don't know where you're from, or if that's an accurate generalisation
To be clear, I'm not being critical at all. You're speaking very precisely, and that's admirable.
Please help!
Dave
PS thank you for your vids
Thanks for the kind words Dave!
I grew up in Harrow, so yes north-west London 😉
This is my video voice though, so I do take extra care when pronouncing certain words and letters, I’m not so clear when speaking normally!
@@Robslondon
Don't tell him Pike.
Couldn't resist it, sorry!
I can honestly say I would not have been brave enough to travel on this line if completed. Imagine the G force if they got the air pumps wrong 😂😂😂🦆💕
Ha ha! Good point Pam!
Thete's an urban myth that there's an abandoned railway car under Crystal Palace Park full of corpses of people trapped by a cave-in.
There is indeed 😉💀
I’ve been informed that there is a tunnel between the old Shell building South Bank and the Shell Mex building north bank.
Wouldn't surprise me... there built a swimming pool under there after all ;-)
@@Robslondon Yes, a rather nice pool and the staff restaurant was superb, incredible good value, if you were single a three course meal would set you up for the rest of the day no need to cook in the evening. Those were the days when employers cared for their employees, Shell had a large Sports ground in Teddington with fantastic facilities including a swimming pool and about 30 different activities and sports including a sub aqua club. The sports ground was a project of a Dutch Chairman, 1920s? However in the Thatcher years with a British management profit and bonus focused the club was run down and eventually sold. Epitomised Thatcher’s philosophy encapsulated by the expression, “cost of everything, value of nothing.”
Pneumatic systems rely on seals, which wear out, as Mr Brunel learned at Dawlish. Electric traction is much more effective.
Link to the video on the two pedestrian tunnels?
found ruclips.net/video/nxwIOK2ozy4/видео.htmlsi=KKIDoO_PjE3r7E6l
Ah! Sorry Steve! Here you go: ruclips.net/video/nxwIOK2ozy4/видео.html
Great history, thank you. At the same time you posted this video about a train driven by air pressure, Paul Whitewick posted a video about a train driven by air pressure.
Here is his video : ruclips.net/video/5ahdgcQd_ck/видео.html
Both videos are great compliments to each other, because yours is about a fully enclosed tunnel, while Paul's is about a tube between the rails holding the air-pressure (vacume).
Thanks so much- and wow, what a coincidence! Will have to watch that video for sure ;-)
So that's where Elon Musk got his idea for the Hyperloop!!
Could well be! 😉
Not his idea. The actual idea probably came from Brunels pneumatic railway.
@@justinepaula-robilliard Ha ha ;-)
Is this mentioned in the likes of 'unbuilt London'?
It should be! It does appear in a few books (including my own! 'Waterloo' by Robert Lordan!) ;-)
It would, I'm sure, be as interesting as your other videos, if not for the fact that the subtitles disappear at the edit after the title card. I hope you can fix this.
from one Rob to another.
Thanks John... not sure why that's happening, I'lll try and look into it.
It's interesting how this idea resurfaced quite recently as the "hyperloop"; though many people think Elon Musk, who owns a car company, came up with the idea to scupper high speed rail in California. For reasons! I honestly can't imagine why the CEO of a car company would want to scupper high speed rail... oh.
😉
What an interesting failure!
😄
A comment from a different Rob.
I like your work and its presentation. However, this video has a critical flaw. The subtitles do not work for the first ~1 minute - the period when you are setting the scene. As a deaf viewer this makes the video useless to me and I'm sure many others.
I look forward to catching up once you've fixed the problem.
I’m so sorry Rob, not sure why that is happening. I’ll see if there is a way of fixing it.
I've added that section manually now Rob, hope that helps.
Hyperloop is a completely new, innovative and never-before-seen concept, until Elon Musk came up with it in 2013.
Yep
The Victorians were something else again, our sewerage system and so many other projects were thought of. The modern London authorities are pale by comparison.
Well said
if the swt two tube line had just be united into one line.
🤔
A blow pipe, good idea 💡
😉
COO
🐦
Fantastic facts 🇬🇧⁉️
We that know it, think you do a brilliant job, sharing the old facts, of our LONDON 😍🇬🇧🙏
HAPPY EASTER ROB🙏
AND LET'S HOPE THAT ITS KHANS WATERLOO.
EVERYONE'S VOTE'S COUNT🆘🎬🇬🇧💯
P,S, YOUR A STAR BRUV❤️💪
Thank you Gary! Happy Easter to you too
As an American I'm a little distant, but I thought "London's biggest blowpipe" was that blonde guy with a horrible haircut.
Ha ha! Don’t get me started on him! 😉
Occurring in around 1866 - A good 130 years before the UKs first _successful_ immersed tube tunnel carrying the A55 between Conwy and Llandudno Junction - If this project had succeeded, the UK would've had had the first example of a _World beating_ tunneling technology, too! 🚇🇬🇧🥇
As it is, I _think_ that record eventually went to the Dutch, though the BART tunnel across the San-Francisco bay (1970s) might've been the first in a common-law country. 😇