When I first saw the title my first thought was "Ooo single crystal blades for an old engine". Then I realised that the printed blade was made by a deposition sintering process - boy have those processes come on in recent years. Looking forward to seeing the test runs of those blades in coming days.
Its so cool, so many possibilities. For industrial applications it seems like it makes a lot of sense. Wish they could come up with a jet powered industrial pump for Fracking. Would make staging so much easier than all those complicated diesel rigs.
Very interesting topic, especially your concern. It is really difficult to test (proper destructive test to see the real limits of this structure) in realistic conditions. As you spoke about it, I thought about the modern turbine disks that are also recently made from metal powder and they are stated to behave better concerning cracks than the forged ones, however they are colder, still huge load is imposed on them. I hope all will go well during the tests, I'm very curious! Thanks for documenting and sharing it. Best regards, Tamas
Nice to see new technologies moving into new areas! I assume that the 3D printing process has already produced samples that have been through various static tests to demonstrate the required tensile strength, fatigue life, etc. I'm guessing that testing the blades in an engine is not cheap, and the designers have done every test possible prior to getting to this stage. It looks like there has been some work in this area. I found an article in Aviation Today that mentions this: "The 777X, which completed its first test flight on Jan. 25 and is projected to enter into service by 2022, features two GE Aviation’s GE9X engines each with 300 3D printed parts. GE9X features 3D printed fuel nozzles, temperature sensors, heat exchanges, and low-pressure turbine blades are among the many parts made by GE Aviation’s Additive Technology Center, which added 27 Arcam electron beam melting (EBM) machines to its Ohio facility last year to titanium alumni blades for the 777X engine." Looking forward to the results of the tests at your facilities!
Not any correction, just throwing my personal knowledge for those who might dig it. I'm not gonna plug it, but my family's business deals in restoring steam turbines in NE PA. It used to be that father designs the blades, I'd assemble them on the disk--attach the shroud, peen, then it goes on to the next machine process..I'd be 3rd generation doin' it. At about 5:50 what you're seeing is what we call a non-standard size blade (the new one im meaning) so it goes through a little more work than the standard would. So those tool marks you're seeing is likely from the milling process to get within tolerance...whatever that may be; it could be .025+- of a inch (we mic the length of the blade only from top of grooved base to top of blade, but then from end-to-end of width of blade), but then that OEM top lacking of sharpness that the shiney blade has on its edge is because we throw the blade into a tumbler with a kinda ceramic like medium to get the burr off the tops of the blade (they are cut down to size). You want to get the burr off say 265 blades for one disk, you're better if you throw them in a tumbler for 45 minutes or whatever. Sometimes they wont be tumbled though and may just be getting deburred by hand by the machinist as he cuts the next batch of 10 or 20 blades (larger custom sizes say for nonstandard restorations get this step) which is why you have the shine vs. no shine.
Blades created from single-crystal alloy is the latest metallurgical tech in turbine blades. Being printed, wonder if these blades are going to be subject to metal creep over time. I’d be curious as to their long-term durability in the hell-fire of a turbine engine. Longer or shorter TBO. We’ll see, I guess.😊
How about: “GE Successfully Tests World’s First Rotating Ceramic Matrix Composite Material for Next-Gen Combat Engine F414 low-pressure turbine blades prove silicon carbide CMC material for unprecedented deployment in GE’s adaptive cycle combat engine.”
The Orenda doesn't actively cool the turbine blades? Almost a pity, the 3D printing process would make it very easy to incorporate cooling channels within the blade.
There's a video from Siemens on RUclips, which is three years old now: it shows them producing a 1st stage cooled turbine blade for one of their 'heavyweights', using metal additive manufacture (3-D printed, if you must, but I'm ever the pedant!). Whether it has since made it into production, I've not seen any updates. An AM 1st stage turbine blade for an industrial gas generator shouldn't be a high risk proposition for eventual production, subject to material selection, static testing of AM samples, and extensive engine testing. However, I don't think that the partners would want their test cell occupied for the length and number of tests that would (in my view) be necessary. So how about what we did all those (50?) years ago with the first Industrial RB211 at TCPL? Find and recruit a sympathetic operator, running engines at base load and persuade him to take a single gas generator, which he would be prepared to take offline periodically for inspection. He would also need to accept the possible risk of blade failures (at your expense for the repair/replacement?). And for those who think that this might lead to an engine flying with these blades, you can probably forget it. I suspect that the airworthiness authorities probably wouldn't touch it with a bargepole (do you say that in N America?), even with plenty of hours of ground running. PS I'm going by what I would expect to happen in the UK and Europe. Maybe AgentJayZ could advise on the situation in N America.
You might find SLAC’s youtube video “Public Lecture | 3D Printing for Perfect Metal Parts” of interest about the research end of additive manufacturing. It gets interesting around 25 minutes. The process at SLAC seems more “violent” than what was shown on the Siemens video. I had a better understanding after watching the SLAC video of what might be going on in the Siemens video of why the laser was moving in the pattern it did. The Siemens video stated that each pass is 20 microns thick (average human hair ~ 100 microns) so it seems that the SLAC video was using more laser power to investigate the limits of void formation.
Graham, you are such an engineer. I feel good about myself because my comments about the proving of these blades were almost verbatim to what you've said here. You set the standard, and sometimes I feel like I almost meet it.
Well, I know I describe myself as having had a career lifetime in gas turbine design, but in hindsight, it was a 41-year apprenticeship. I wish I was up to speed with the latest technologies.
Hello AgentJayZ. In a next video in this series, could you tell us which exact 3D-printing method is used? And maybe show the machine while printing? Very interesting. I am familiar with plastic 3D-printing, not metal, but I know there do exist several metal printing methods: (1) the worst: metal-filled plastic filament you can run through a good home-printer (with hardened gear and nozzle). After printing, the model is cured in an oven to burn off the plastic, melting the metal pieces together. Sometimes another metal is added to the mix, e.g. like copper or tin to fill the voids left by the burned plastic. But these models do shrink and deform, so it is good enough for art, but not suitable for aviation purposes. (2) Sintering: melting metal powder together with a laser, then adding another layer of powder, melting it together with the laser, etc., layer by layer. This could work, but the resulting model is still porous. Here too, another metal with lower melting-temp could be added in post-processing to seep into the voids. And (3) a machine that deposits liquid droplets of metal onto the model. This works very much like an inkjet printer, but then jetting liquid metal instead of ink, obviously. This is way more solid than sintering. But as far as I know, all methods produce quite high stresses in the model, due to uneven local cooling. Just like in plastic 3D-printing. Because molten hot material is laid upon cold solid material, and then it cools down and solidifies and wants to shrink and warp, but it can not. If you warm-up plastic 3D-printed models to around glass transition temperature (where they start to get softer), they do warp horribly. So I am not sure what 3D-printed blades are going to do in an "oven" like a jet engine? Under high centrifugal load and high wind load? Maybe you could construct a sort of "sand box" around those discs, to capture any blade parts that break off? So they do not rip everything and everyone to pieces? We can't have you cut in half, because you need to make more videos. :-) A sandbox can not be done for an airplane engine, but for a stationary industrial engine where weight is not an issue, like in your test cells, it might be possible? Anyway, I appreciate these new series, very interesting indeed. Can't wait to see the outcome of the tests.
As explained here, I'm just here to witness and document testing. I'm not the engineers, and they have sent us these blades they've produced. I'll try to get some more info.
Hi there, For Method (2): If everything is done right, the defects in the printed material are only at microscopic level! Material porosity from casting parts are worst by far! Some Processing like HIP can improve the material even more, and to verify that whole process X-Ray, or CT-Scans can be made! So with DLMS, or SLM Technology you can produce parts with full strength of the material, and for example you can improve design by printing internal structures for lightweighting parts, or integrate cooling channels as well! Best wishes from germany from a production manager dealing with that process as a daily business! 🙂
I think it's classic LPBF so laser powder bed fusion, where thin layers of powder are melted to previous layer using lasers. It's most common in industrial metal printing at least.
I saw somewhere that there was a team out there trying to rebuild flight-worthy Jumo 004 B engines (ME-262). Maybe this is part of the answer to where those folks will find parts?
That would be interesting to see a Jumo 004 operate! Would this upgrade the parts that caused the short operating life of the Jumo, though? A quick search suggests that the Me-262 replicas are powered by the GE CJ610, a variation of the J85. It might be a lot of work to get a Jumo to live as long as the CJ610. In general, it would be nice to have a relatively inexpensive source for blades and vanes for scarce and obscure engines.
Uber cool to be witnesses to this experiment! Now, I would think they would test it at rpm out side the engine first; say run it up to 10Krpm - cold - to see it can handle the tension stresses - before going into an engine. Maybe they don't have access to a rig that could do that. Seems to me it would be a small task to whip something up for a rough run.
Because of the reasons presented, that would be much more expensive than this test. Not really any safer, either. This is definitely a test, and even more safety precautions will be taken than with the CF blades.
There are actually several types of 3d metal printing, but the most common one involves sintering a powder. The process involves heating up ultra fine metal powder to just below its melting point, then exposing the desired shape in a given layer to laser light to push it over the edge and cause it to melt. The process is generally pretty good and will leave a shot blasted texture. However it's important to note that there is a chance of microscopic voids in the metal with typical metal printing. I suspect that for this application a great deal of care was made to avoid that or capture any failures.
@@86abaile sintering method your mention is done for polymers, metals are completely molten by the high energy laser beam, basically its laser welding in metal 3D-printing and it produces up to 99,99% dense parts Back in the old days when the lasers were not powerful enough they also did sinter the metal but that's not relevant nowadays.
3D printed metal is not very strong right out of the printer but the strength can be improved by hot isostatic pressing. After that, I think it can be as good as the same metal made by machining from a billet. I don't know if it can get as strong as single crystal growth which is used for some extreme turbine blades. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_isostatic_pressing
Very interesting. The linked article mentions the use of argon as a pressurizing gas. If I remember correctly, the NTSB had a report about a situation where the blades (though probably a different pressurization process) were internally contaminated by impure argon that led to failure. Amazing how complex things can get. Judging from the SLAC video that talked about additive manufacturing, it seems that it would be difficult to get similar performance from AM.
Right at the start when you were talking about running on propane rather than jet fuel it got me thinking. What do you have to change in order for one of your engines to run on gaseous fuel? I’m guessing the fcu/fuel pump arrangement would have to be totally different, do you even have a fuel pump on the engine at all? Bigger fuel lines, different size/design of fuel nozzles? Leads into more questions, how do you test a gaseous fuel nozzle in the shop for correct pattern? Thanks mate, Buxy
I think it's cool you're getting to do this up in Port St. John. Why should all the peeps at GE, PW, RR get all the fun of doing research in test cells ⁉
AJZ why risk a whole J79, when you can jerry rig a separate BLISK and spin THAT to oblivion? then check the before/after elongation at shoulder/root, and if acceptable, stick it in a J
Because you can't run it at the temperature and load that it will see inside the turbine casing. You could maybe get the temperature, but getting the temperature distribution as in the real engine would be difficult and you couldn't get the airflow right for reasonable money.
The layering direction being transverse rather than axial is surprising - a modern DS blade has the grain travelling parallel to the load path rather than perpendicular. Very interesting to see how these work!
I am confused, I understood the layering to be along the operational “radial” direction which is perpendicular to the axial direction of the engine. Would that not be the preferential direction for the metal’s macro / microstructure for both aerodynamic bending and centrifugal force? Could you elaborate on what is the “transverse” direction. Had to do a little searching for → “directionally solidified (DS) blades”. The different types are “equiaxed, to directional solidified, to single crystal.” For DS blades: “The result is a turbine airfoil composed of columnar crystals or grains running spanwise. For rotating turbine blades, where spanwise centrifugal forces can see accelerations of 20,000 g, the columnar grains are aligned with the major stress axis. This alignment strengthens the blade and effectively eliminates destructive intergranular crack initiation normal to blade span. In gas turbines, directionally solidified (DS) blades have improved ductility and thermal fatigue life. They also provide more tolerance to localized strains (such as at blade roots), and have allowed small increases in turbine temperature and, hence, performance.” So for additive manufactured blades, it would seem that the process would produce “macro” structuring of the metal which is what was looked for.
Isotropic means material with characteristics that are the same in all directions, so no strong or weak direction. The opposite of wood, which can be described as anisotropic, with a structure that easily splits in one way, not the other.
Are you allowed to use the 3d printed part in an aircraft. I asume it's not a certified part, therefore not able to be used in aircraft. I could be completely wrong but I'm curious.
While Jay here works on flight hardware - I think the bread and butter of the wider S&S team are stationary plant engines. And those owners can use anything they want.
In the USA, an aircraft owner can make, or "cause to be made", parts that aren't available. We did that on our 60-year-old bird. Nothing super critical, however.
Note that the GE9X and Catalyst engines from GE use many 3D printed parts. Gonna guess some of the parts catalog may be re-engineered for legacy engines. Was my day job until last month!
The trailing edge of the printed blade looks a bit thick to me. Isn't that going to kill efficiency somewhat? Maybe not as 4 blades but as a complete wheel?
I think they'll do fine. I know SpaceX is using some 3D printed parts in some very dynamic and hot environments. If they passed Xray testing without voids they look to be a great source for new parts if they can get all the certifications done.
G'day Jay, Yikes ! "GollyGoshGeeDarn&Shucks !" (The biggest polite "Swear-Word" that I know of...). On the one hand..., my previous comment regarding those Forged Plastick-Mastique Fantastic Compressor-Blades..., actually scored me a pleasantly reassuring Comment-Response - from the bloke who's funding the Enterprise... Warbles feels greatly honoured by such consideration, indeed...; and pleased that my most paranoid wonderings proved to be groundless. Regards 3-D Printed Turbine-Blades... I agree with your insistence that nobody be anywhere within Shrapnel-Range..., While the Delamination-Resistance of the "Printed Sintered Layers of Laser-melted Crystals in the Sequentially Accretion-sculpted Fir-Trees...." While they're glowing Red-Hot, and with 8,000 RPM of Centripetal/frugal Force trying to Pull every Layer off the one "Below/Inside" it, potentially Disconnecting the Mass of the Blade from the fast-rotating Hub-Disk it's trying to Klingon Thereunto... Well before you showed the WRONGLY Oriented Stress-Risers, printed all the way out along the Blade; My Olde Eagle-Beagle Eye spotted those same Carastrophic-looking Failure-Initiators Layered all the way along, up the Back-edge of the Fir-Tree...(!). Can you borrow a Flak-Jacket and a Hard-Hat, Perhaps ; to make sitting in the Bunker Feel a bit less Dangerii...? (Latin-sounding scariness !). Maybe the Blade has been Heat-treated, Stress-Relieved, and otherwise fine-tuned so that the Metal is properly "Monolithic"...; but even so, my guess is that actually machining the Surfaces to bee seen to be SMOOTH - as well as feeling smooth to the Perpendicularly-dragged Fingernail..., Would Probably (?) Enhance the Unit's resistance to Crack-Formation at the remnant of the Printed Discontinuity between Layers - opened up by repeated Cyclic Stresses imposed by (among other random factors...) The Fir-Trees resisting Gyroscopic-Precession Loads on the Blades, as the Engine & it's spinning internal Discs are being Constantly re-oriented in the X, Y, & Z - Axes in Space - and EVERY time each Disc's Axis of Rotation is displaced, the peturbing Force makes itself felt 90° later in the direction of Rotation - effected and energised by All the stored Kinetic Energy in the Disc's Rotating Centre of Mass... Basically, every force a Bentley BR-1 puts into a Sopwith Camel to warp and twist every attempted Control-input, making it drop it's Nose when whipping around turning 3 times to the Right, in the same time it took to go around once to the Left - while the Precession pulled the Nose up - thus requiring almost full Left Rudder to turn steeply Right, OR Left...; those Precessional inputs will be basically trying to bend the tips of the Blades Forwards & Backwards, every Revolution of the Disc, every time the Engine's Long-Axis is either Pitched, or Yawed. As it happens, I recently posted a Video demonstrating how little a difference in the Windspeed onto the two sides of a spinning (free-air Wind) Turbine Rotor - caused by Turbulent Eddies coming off obstacles upwind..., will instantly Yaw the Axis of Rotation - in a series of violent Pulses as the Blades go through being parallel to the Horizon - when the Assymetry in Windspeed is greatest ; an at each Yaw-Pulse the Rotor's Rotational Axis is simultaneously Kicked around in the Pitch-Axis. The Video is called, "Watching Paint Dry..., Observations of Gyroscopic Procession in Wind Turbine Rotors...", Or words to that effect. 8-inch Laminated Rotor, Danish Oil, drying on an Axle suspended on long a Thread, the ends of which terminated in Loops on the Rotor's Axle. Thus the Suspensors were free to allow the Vertical Axis of the Shaft to revolve, by the twovertical Strings twisting around each other, while their individual Length could be varied by pulling down on either end - as the only factor dampening that adjustment was one loop of the connecting Thread going around the Wire separating the two Hooks at the ends of the Top-Hanger. So the Rotor-Shaft was hung parallel to the Horizon, when the Wind blew smooth & even the Rotor spun up to speed, and as soon as a Burble of Turbulence arrived at one side of the Disc, then it Yawed - away from the lower Windspeed - and as the Yaw commenced ; the Axis of Rotation suddenly & violently Reacted in Pitch.... Which, Stopped the Rotor as the Blades hit the Strings - and the "Damping Twist" around the Suspensory Hanger Hooks Preserved the induced discrepancy in the lengths of the two Strings, caused by the Precessional Pulse - Secondary unto the initially Disturbing Yaw-Input. As I freely admit, Small things amuse small minds...; but on the other hand, a bloke in Britain building and testing his own homemade Co-Axial Backyard Helicopter !(his Channel is Ben Dixley...) Reckons it's the best demonstration of how strongly Gyroscopic Precession effects Rotating Blade Arrays - at even very low Airspeed & low RPM. Knowing about such factoids is merely bemusing fun, for me ; but when planning on hovering 3 ft above his Backyard, then knowing about such subtle secondary & tertiary effects of disturbing a spinning Disc - might make a LOT of difference to his day...(?). Having those 3-D printed micro-striations running Chordwise might be good thing, for reducing the Parasite-Drag of the individual Blade Surfaces (?), in that Air is a Fluid and Water is a Fluid, and adding Stream-aligned surface-corrugations is known to reduce Parasite-Drag..., in Water, as used by Whales which have apparently evolved to swim faster, with less effort....; but I suspect that they may be a bit of an "Own Goal" (?), As regards resisting the End-Loads on a spinning Turbine-Blade, Glowing Cherry-Red while in use. Hopefully, the Boffins & Whizz-Kids know what they're on about..., least the Test-Cell be about to have it's Structural sense of Impeturbability put to the test - If the Windmill in the Blowtorch's Arse-blast Commences to shed High-Speed glowing Fragments..., of 3-Dimensional Printed Mistaken Best intentions...(!). I love it that someone wanting to break new ground in Jet Aeroplanology has come to you, the Rejuvenator of Geriatric Squirt-Engines, Aeronautical & Industrial ; to rent your Test-Cell in which to run an old, proven, well-understood agglomeration of well-integrated Jet Engine Components ; while they Play around With ONE Variable at a time. Plastic Compressor Blades in one week's Session, and 3-D Printed Fire-Turbine Blades after rebuilding the Test-Unit & swapping-out the Experimental Articles...., in the next Series of runs. Science, Almost... All you need, now, is some Corroboration.... Bennelong performed the first Corrobberee in Europe, when Governor Arthur Phillip took him back there to show how well he had adapted to and adopted English Cultural Mannerisms... Will you be seeking Australian or North AmeriKan Aborigines, with whom to corroborate whatever you discover, regarding the Nature of Reality, From your experimentations thus ? (lol, Jokularis jokulii - Although, Corroberee IS an Australian Aboriginal word, and without Corroberation there is no Science at all... ; so, one wonders quite what makes the EuroPeons today like to thunk that they "Invented the Scientific Method of Problem Solving" ; AFTER Bennelong showed the EuroPeons what both a Corroberee, and k Corroberation Is...?). Going back to replacing the mildewed O-Rings in ancient Hangar-Queens, and rebuilding Industrial Power-units, & overhauling Airshow-Performers' spare Backup Engines...; after working up there at the very hairy Leading-Edge, of the World-leading Cusp of 3-D Printed Metallurgy, Forged Carbon-Fibre Fabrication, and the Shrouded Rotating Helical Aerofoil-Arrays to be found at Both ends of an Axial-Flow Turbojet Engine...(!). Have you ever thought of Taking in and training up an Apprentice, while regarding this Project as a Crowning Achievement, however it turns out ; and then selling out to the Individual whom you'll train up to take over ? The bloke who my son was apprenticed to did that...; and for 10 years he's had a $1k per week to retire on - with another 5 years to go..., while my son went from Tradesman to Proprietor at age 25. "Vendor Finance" they call it. The other option, for a Sole Proprietor being to potter on along, alone, until one either drops in one's tracks ; or wakes up dead in the morning (!). This is a lovely Project you've been let loose to play with... Thanks for posting it so we can all tag along, vicariously. Such is life, Have a good one... Stay safe. ;-p Ciao !
I'm not trying to downplay your excitement in the least for putting newer technology into an older engine, but I promise you, 3D printed parts have been used Extensively in modern aerospace engines. Most of the newest designs were proven for production using 3D metallic parts and the technology has not only improved from doing so (making the process and the parts for the better) but solutions from finding better ways to produce the parts have filtered through the process into making the printing machines themselves better for specific tasks as this. Slightly different discipline from jet engines, but rocket engines are routinely using 3D metal printed in both lab and flight status, and it's an absolute boon seeing the path that it's taken the last 8 years from using powdered sintered feedstock as an R&D material to going to full production status parts. Siemens has an entire division devoted to this for aerospace use, as do a number of other recognizable names in the industry who perhaps don't or can't divulge specific detail into the public forum as much as they'd like to. We're getting to the point where the development software has direct options to print to metal rather than having to work through the engineering nylons first, which has been a tremendous time saver!
Norse Titanium has a shop that the State of New York funded for the exact purpose of creating turbine blades. The “ old “ airport was sitting idle and for ( to my mindset) funding was made available to a foreign company to be granted huge amounts of taxpayer money to build and equip a new industry. Time will tell……..
8ve use carbon fibre forged blades and there relatively strong , doesn't space x use 3D printing metal and the surface looks very clean without impurities, almost shot peened
When I first saw the title my first thought was "Ooo single crystal blades for an old engine". Then I realised that the printed blade was made by a deposition sintering process - boy have those processes come on in recent years. Looking forward to seeing the test runs of those blades in coming days.
Its so cool, so many possibilities. For industrial applications it seems like it makes a lot of sense.
Wish they could come up with a jet powered industrial pump for Fracking. Would make staging so much easier than all those complicated diesel rigs.
To quote someone else involved with an experimental aerospace program, "excitement guaranteed!"
Very cool our favorite Canadian gets to be a part of this.
Jet Engines are amazing
the crazy amount I have learned by watching your videos is awesome I really appreciate what you do
If this works out it will be easier to create new spare parts out of thin air and keep those old turbines running.
Awesome how in the 50's they achieved such manufacturing quality.
Well, these are certainly interesting developments.Thanks very much for sharing
Front row seat to witness first hand, the fast evolving world of high performace 3D Printing testing, design & metallurgy!
Cool stuff indeed !!!
Daaaaaamn what an exciting time for all the companies involved!
Very interesting topic, especially your concern. It is really difficult to test (proper destructive test to see the real limits of this structure) in realistic conditions. As you spoke about it, I thought about the modern turbine disks that are also recently made from metal powder and they are stated to behave better concerning cracks than the forged ones, however they are colder, still huge load is imposed on them. I hope all will go well during the tests, I'm very curious! Thanks for documenting and sharing it. Best regards, Tamas
Nice to see new technologies moving into new areas! I assume that the 3D printing process has already produced samples that have been through various static tests to demonstrate the required tensile strength, fatigue life, etc. I'm guessing that testing the blades in an engine is not cheap, and the designers have done every test possible prior to getting to this stage. It looks like there has been some work in this area. I found an article in Aviation Today that mentions this: "The 777X, which completed its first test flight on Jan. 25 and is projected to enter into service by 2022, features two GE Aviation’s GE9X engines each with 300 3D printed parts. GE9X features 3D printed fuel nozzles, temperature sensors, heat exchanges, and low-pressure turbine blades are among the many parts made by GE Aviation’s Additive Technology Center, which added 27 Arcam electron beam melting (EBM) machines to its Ohio facility last year to titanium alumni blades for the 777X engine." Looking forward to the results of the tests at your facilities!
Agent Jay, I’m really enjoying this series of experiments. Thanks for sharing.
I don’t have any questions 😅…yet
Not any correction, just throwing my personal knowledge for those who might dig it.
I'm not gonna plug it, but my family's business deals in restoring steam turbines in NE PA. It used to be that father designs the blades, I'd assemble them on the disk--attach the shroud, peen, then it goes on to the next machine process..I'd be 3rd generation doin' it.
At about 5:50 what you're seeing is what we call a non-standard size blade (the new one im meaning) so it goes through a little more work than the standard would. So those tool marks you're seeing is likely from the milling process to get within tolerance...whatever that may be; it could be .025+- of a inch (we mic the length of the blade only from top of grooved base to top of blade, but then from end-to-end of width of blade), but then that OEM top lacking of sharpness that the shiney blade has on its edge is because we throw the blade into a tumbler with a kinda ceramic like medium to get the burr off the tops of the blade (they are cut down to size). You want to get the burr off say 265 blades for one disk, you're better if you throw them in a tumbler for 45 minutes or whatever. Sometimes they wont be tumbled though and may just be getting deburred by hand by the machinist as he cuts the next batch of 10 or 20 blades (larger custom sizes say for nonstandard restorations get this step) which is why you have the shine vs. no shine.
Always good to hear from someone with hands on experience.
@@AgentJayZ ty sir
One of my last deliveries was to a GE 3-D plant just outside of Pittsburgh ,,, !
"Cutting-Edge Technology Pioneering at S&S Turbines!" Legends!
Very cool. Looking forward to find out how all these ongoing carbon composite and 3D printed part tests go.
Blades created from single-crystal alloy is the latest metallurgical tech in turbine blades. Being printed, wonder if these blades are going to be subject to metal creep over time. I’d be curious as to their long-term durability in the hell-fire of a turbine engine. Longer or shorter TBO. We’ll see, I guess.😊
How about:
“GE Successfully Tests World’s First Rotating Ceramic Matrix Composite Material for Next-Gen Combat Engine F414 low-pressure turbine blades prove silicon carbide CMC material for unprecedented deployment in GE’s adaptive cycle combat engine.”
Very cool, looking forward to the tests. You have an awesome job my friend
Thanks again, there is often much to think about after watching one of your videos,
The Orenda doesn't actively cool the turbine blades? Almost a pity, the 3D printing process would make it very easy to incorporate cooling channels within the blade.
this is really cool thanks
There's a video from Siemens on RUclips, which is three years old now: it shows them producing a 1st stage cooled turbine blade for one of their 'heavyweights', using metal additive manufacture (3-D printed, if you must, but I'm ever the pedant!). Whether it has since made it into production, I've not seen any updates.
An AM 1st stage turbine blade for an industrial gas generator shouldn't be a high risk proposition for eventual production, subject to material selection, static testing of AM samples, and extensive engine testing. However, I don't think that the partners would want their test cell occupied for the length and number of tests that would (in my view) be necessary.
So how about what we did all those (50?) years ago with the first Industrial RB211 at TCPL? Find and recruit a sympathetic operator, running engines at base load and persuade him to take a single gas generator, which he would be prepared to take offline periodically for inspection. He would also need to accept the possible risk of blade failures (at your expense for the repair/replacement?).
And for those who think that this might lead to an engine flying with these blades, you can probably forget it. I suspect that the airworthiness authorities probably wouldn't touch it with a bargepole (do you say that in N America?), even with plenty of hours of ground running.
PS I'm going by what I would expect to happen in the UK and Europe. Maybe AgentJayZ could advise on the situation in N America.
You might find SLAC’s youtube video “Public Lecture | 3D Printing for Perfect Metal Parts” of interest about the research end of additive manufacturing. It gets interesting around 25 minutes. The process at SLAC seems more “violent” than what was shown on the Siemens video. I had a better understanding after watching the SLAC video of what might be going on in the Siemens video of why the laser was moving in the pattern it did.
The Siemens video stated that each pass is 20 microns thick (average human hair ~ 100 microns) so it seems that the SLAC video was using more laser power to investigate the limits of void formation.
Graham, you are such an engineer. I feel good about myself because my comments about the proving of these blades were almost verbatim to what you've said here.
You set the standard, and sometimes I feel like I almost meet it.
Well, I know I describe myself as having had a career lifetime in gas turbine design, but in hindsight, it was a 41-year apprenticeship. I wish I was up to speed with the latest technologies.
@@grahamj9101 An Intelligent & Modest Realist in 2024! Well done, that chap! Stout fellow!
Any chance there will be X-ray inspection before vs after testing ?
I will try to obtain the results.
Hello AgentJayZ. In a next video in this series, could you tell us which exact 3D-printing method is used? And maybe show the machine while printing? Very interesting. I am familiar with plastic 3D-printing, not metal, but I know there do exist several metal printing methods: (1) the worst: metal-filled plastic filament you can run through a good home-printer (with hardened gear and nozzle). After printing, the model is cured in an oven to burn off the plastic, melting the metal pieces together. Sometimes another metal is added to the mix, e.g. like copper or tin to fill the voids left by the burned plastic. But these models do shrink and deform, so it is good enough for art, but not suitable for aviation purposes. (2) Sintering: melting metal powder together with a laser, then adding another layer of powder, melting it together with the laser, etc., layer by layer. This could work, but the resulting model is still porous. Here too, another metal with lower melting-temp could be added in post-processing to seep into the voids. And (3) a machine that deposits liquid droplets of metal onto the model. This works very much like an inkjet printer, but then jetting liquid metal instead of ink, obviously. This is way more solid than sintering. But as far as I know, all methods produce quite high stresses in the model, due to uneven local cooling. Just like in plastic 3D-printing. Because molten hot material is laid upon cold solid material, and then it cools down and solidifies and wants to shrink and warp, but it can not. If you warm-up plastic 3D-printed models to around glass transition temperature (where they start to get softer), they do warp horribly. So I am not sure what 3D-printed blades are going to do in an "oven" like a jet engine? Under high centrifugal load and high wind load? Maybe you could construct a sort of "sand box" around those discs, to capture any blade parts that break off? So they do not rip everything and everyone to pieces? We can't have you cut in half, because you need to make more videos. :-) A sandbox can not be done for an airplane engine, but for a stationary industrial engine where weight is not an issue, like in your test cells, it might be possible? Anyway, I appreciate these new series, very interesting indeed. Can't wait to see the outcome of the tests.
As explained here, I'm just here to witness and document testing. I'm not the engineers, and they have sent us these blades they've produced. I'll try to get some more info.
Hi there,
For Method (2):
If everything is done right, the defects in the printed material are only at microscopic level!
Material porosity from casting parts are worst by far!
Some Processing like HIP can improve the material even more, and to verify that whole process X-Ray, or CT-Scans can be made!
So with DLMS, or SLM Technology you can produce parts with full strength of the material, and for example you can improve design by printing internal structures for lightweighting parts, or integrate cooling channels as well!
Best wishes from germany from a production manager dealing with that process as a daily business! 🙂
I think it's classic LPBF so laser powder bed fusion, where thin layers of powder are melted to previous layer using lasers. It's most common in industrial metal printing at least.
I saw somewhere that there was a team out there trying to rebuild flight-worthy Jumo 004 B engines (ME-262). Maybe this is part of the answer to where those folks will find parts?
That would be interesting to see a Jumo 004 operate! Would this upgrade the parts that caused the short operating life of the Jumo, though? A quick search suggests that the Me-262 replicas are powered by the GE CJ610, a variation of the J85. It might be a lot of work to get a Jumo to live as long as the CJ610. In general, it would be nice to have a relatively inexpensive source for blades and vanes for scarce and obscure engines.
Thank God the Nazis didn't have inconnel ,,, !
THANK YOU AGENT JAYZ
Uber cool to be witnesses to this experiment! Now, I would think they would test it at rpm out side the engine first; say run it up to 10Krpm - cold - to see it can handle the tension stresses - before going into an engine. Maybe they don't have access to a rig that could do that. Seems to me it would be a small task to whip something up for a rough run.
Because of the reasons presented, that would be much more expensive than this test. Not really any safer, either. This is definitely a test, and even more safety precautions will be taken than with the CF blades.
There are actually several types of 3d metal printing, but the most common one involves sintering a powder. The process involves heating up ultra fine metal powder to just below its melting point, then exposing the desired shape in a given layer to laser light to push it over the edge and cause it to melt. The process is generally pretty good and will leave a shot blasted texture. However it's important to note that there is a chance of microscopic voids in the metal with typical metal printing. I suspect that for this application a great deal of care was made to avoid that or capture any failures.
@@86abaile sintering method your mention is done for polymers, metals are completely molten by the high energy laser beam, basically its laser welding in metal 3D-printing and it produces up to 99,99% dense parts Back in the old days when the lasers were not powerful enough they also did sinter the metal but that's not relevant nowadays.
3D printed metal is not very strong right out of the printer but the strength can be improved by hot isostatic pressing. After that, I think it can be as good as the same metal made by machining from a billet. I don't know if it can get as strong as single crystal growth which is used for some extreme turbine blades.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_isostatic_pressing
I was going to ask about simple annealing, but HIP is probably superior.
Very interesting. The linked article mentions the use of argon as a pressurizing gas. If I remember correctly, the NTSB had a report about a situation where the blades (though probably a different pressurization process) were internally contaminated by impure argon that led to failure. Amazing how complex things can get.
Judging from the SLAC video that talked about additive manufacturing, it seems that it would be difficult to get similar performance from AM.
U earned a new sub
I would be great to see ya work on a F-110 GE 400 :)
Right at the start when you were talking about running on propane rather than jet fuel it got me thinking. What do you have to change in order for one of your engines to run on gaseous fuel? I’m guessing the fcu/fuel pump arrangement would have to be totally different, do you even have a fuel pump on the engine at all? Bigger fuel lines, different size/design of fuel nozzles? Leads into more questions, how do you test a gaseous fuel nozzle in the shop for correct pattern?
Thanks mate, Buxy
I think it's cool you're getting to do this up in Port St. John. Why should all the peeps at GE, PW, RR get all the fun of doing research in test cells ⁉
Great stuff.
It is hard to believe they could hold up. I never liked the idea of 3d printing crucial parts like this.
AJZ why risk a whole J79, when you can
jerry rig a separate
BLISK and spin THAT to oblivion?
then check the before/after elongation at shoulder/root,
and if acceptable, stick it in a J
Because you can't run it at the temperature and load that it will see inside the turbine casing. You could maybe get the temperature, but getting the temperature distribution as in the real engine would be difficult and you couldn't get the airflow right for reasonable money.
original part has a thinner trailing edge
The layering direction being transverse rather than axial is surprising - a modern DS blade has the grain travelling parallel to the load path rather than perpendicular. Very interesting to see how these work!
I am confused, I understood the layering to be along the operational “radial” direction which is perpendicular to the axial direction of the engine. Would that not be the preferential direction for the metal’s macro / microstructure for both aerodynamic bending and centrifugal force? Could you elaborate on what is the “transverse” direction.
Had to do a little searching for → “directionally solidified (DS) blades”. The different types are “equiaxed, to directional solidified, to single crystal.”
For DS blades:
“The result is a turbine airfoil composed of columnar crystals or grains running spanwise. For rotating turbine blades, where spanwise centrifugal forces can see accelerations of 20,000 g, the columnar grains are aligned with the major stress axis. This alignment strengthens the blade and effectively eliminates destructive intergranular crack initiation normal to blade span. In gas turbines, directionally solidified (DS) blades have improved ductility and thermal fatigue life. They also provide more tolerance to localized strains (such as at blade roots), and have allowed small increases in turbine temperature and, hence, performance.”
So for additive manufactured blades, it would seem that the process would produce “macro” structuring of the metal which is what was looked for.
Most metal printing results in an isotropic part.
A good explanation is in my video about repairing blades, called Jet Tech: The Leading Edge.
@@UncleKennysPlace
Please expand upon how the metal structure is “isotopic” with additive metal printing.
Isotropic means material with characteristics that are the same in all directions, so no strong or weak direction. The opposite of wood, which can be described as anisotropic, with a structure that easily splits in one way, not the other.
is the firtree broached/machined, or Wire EDM'd?
which of the 2 processes would alter the integrity less
He said broached in the video but the 3d printed blade is almost certainly printed that way.
Do you still lockwire everything for these test runs?
Even though the test in this case will be an hour or so, all fasters are safety-wired according to the overhaul manual.
Are you allowed to use the 3d printed part in an aircraft. I asume it's not a certified part, therefore not able to be used in aircraft. I could be completely wrong but I'm curious.
Not yet. Times will change, that's why this project might be important. It will help drive this exact change.
While Jay here works on flight hardware - I think the bread and butter of the wider S&S team are stationary plant engines. And those owners can use anything they want.
In the USA, an aircraft owner can make, or "cause to be made", parts that aren't available. We did that on our 60-year-old bird. Nothing super critical, however.
Note that the GE9X and Catalyst engines from GE use many 3D printed parts. Gonna guess some of the parts catalog may be re-engineered for legacy engines. Was my day job until last month!
Every time an industrial engine is populated with parts of this technology, certified parts are freed up for aircraft engines.
The trailing edge of the printed blade looks a bit thick to me. Isn't that going to kill efficiency somewhat? Maybe not as 4 blades but as a complete wheel?
Trailing edge matters very little.
I think they'll do fine. I know SpaceX is using some 3D printed parts in some very dynamic and hot environments. If they passed Xray testing without voids they look to be a great source for new parts if they can get all the certifications done.
Bro, no spoilers on the carbon fiber tests!!!!
We've only just begun. Most tests have not been run yet.
Propane?
Hank Hill approves.
I also watch channels on horses and steam and wood and leather...
Especially leather but a bit of wood too. The horses aren't really my thing but I don't shame.
@@Sonny_McMacssonA horse in the test cell on full military power is an amazing sight.
We could measure his draught using the thrust stand.
Any estimates?
@@AgentJayZ I feel like this is a trick question in the domain of units of measure 🙂
The thrust stand measures force and we have a readout in lbs of force. My guess is about 1000 for a big horse.
G'day Jay,
Yikes !
"GollyGoshGeeDarn&Shucks !"
(The biggest polite "Swear-Word" that I know of...).
On the one hand..., my previous comment regarding those
Forged
Plastick-Mastique Fantastic
Compressor-Blades..., actually scored me a pleasantly reassuring
Comment-Response - from the bloke who's funding the
Enterprise...
Warbles feels greatly honoured by such consideration, indeed...; and pleased that my most paranoid wonderings proved to be groundless.
Regards 3-D Printed Turbine-Blades...
I agree with your insistence that nobody be anywhere within
Shrapnel-Range...,
While the
Delamination-Resistance of the
"Printed Sintered Layers of Laser-melted Crystals in the
Sequentially Accretion-sculpted
Fir-Trees...."
While they're glowing
Red-Hot, and with 8,000 RPM of Centripetal/frugal Force trying to
Pull every Layer off the one
"Below/Inside" it, potentially
Disconnecting the Mass of the Blade from the fast-rotating Hub-Disk it's trying to
Klingon
Thereunto...
Well before you showed the
WRONGLY
Oriented
Stress-Risers, printed all the way out along the Blade;
My Olde Eagle-Beagle Eye spotted those same
Carastrophic-looking
Failure-Initiators
Layered all the way along, up the
Back-edge of the
Fir-Tree...(!).
Can you borrow a
Flak-Jacket and a Hard-Hat,
Perhaps ; to make sitting in the
Bunker
Feel a bit less
Dangerii...?
(Latin-sounding scariness !).
Maybe the Blade has been
Heat-treated, Stress-Relieved, and otherwise fine-tuned so that the Metal is properly
"Monolithic"...; but even so, my guess is that actually machining the Surfaces to bee seen to be
SMOOTH - as well as feeling smooth to the Perpendicularly-dragged
Fingernail...,
Would
Probably (?)
Enhance the Unit's resistance to
Crack-Formation at the remnant of the Printed Discontinuity between Layers - opened up by repeated
Cyclic Stresses imposed by (among other random factors...)
The Fir-Trees resisting
Gyroscopic-Precession Loads on the Blades, as the Engine & it's spinning internal Discs are being
Constantly re-oriented in the
X, Y, & Z - Axes in Space - and
EVERY time each Disc's Axis of Rotation is displaced, the peturbing Force makes itself felt 90° later in the direction of Rotation - effected and energised by
All the stored Kinetic Energy in the Disc's Rotating Centre of Mass...
Basically, every force a Bentley BR-1 puts into a Sopwith Camel to warp and twist every attempted Control-input, making it drop it's Nose when whipping around turning 3 times to the Right, in the same time it took to go around once to the Left - while the Precession pulled the Nose up - thus requiring almost full Left Rudder to turn steeply Right, OR Left...; those Precessional inputs will be basically trying to bend the tips of the Blades
Forwards & Backwards, every Revolution of the Disc, every time the Engine's Long-Axis is either
Pitched, or Yawed.
As it happens, I recently posted a Video demonstrating how little a difference in the Windspeed onto the two sides of a spinning (free-air Wind) Turbine Rotor - caused by Turbulent Eddies coming off obstacles upwind..., will instantly
Yaw the Axis of Rotation - in a series of violent Pulses as the Blades go through being parallel to the Horizon - when the Assymetry in Windspeed is greatest ; an at each
Yaw-Pulse the Rotor's Rotational Axis is simultaneously
Kicked around in the
Pitch-Axis.
The Video is called,
"Watching Paint Dry..., Observations of Gyroscopic Procession in Wind Turbine Rotors...",
Or words to that effect.
8-inch Laminated Rotor, Danish Oil, drying on an Axle suspended on long a Thread, the ends of which terminated in Loops on the Rotor's Axle.
Thus the Suspensors were free to allow the Vertical Axis of the Shaft to revolve, by the twovertical Strings twisting around each other, while their individual Length could be varied by pulling down on either end - as the only factor dampening that adjustment was one loop of the connecting Thread going around the Wire separating the two Hooks at the ends of the Top-Hanger.
So the Rotor-Shaft was hung parallel to the Horizon, when the Wind blew smooth & even the Rotor spun up to speed, and as soon as a Burble of Turbulence arrived at one side of the Disc, then it
Yawed - away from the lower Windspeed - and as the Yaw commenced ; the Axis of Rotation suddenly & violently
Reacted in Pitch....
Which,
Stopped the Rotor as the Blades hit the Strings - and the
"Damping Twist" around the Suspensory Hanger Hooks
Preserved the induced discrepancy in the lengths of the two Strings, caused by the
Precessional
Pulse -
Secondary unto the initially
Disturbing Yaw-Input.
As I freely admit,
Small things amuse small minds...; but on the other hand, a bloke in Britain building and testing his own homemade Co-Axial Backyard Helicopter !(his Channel is
Ben Dixley...)
Reckons it's the best demonstration of how strongly
Gyroscopic Precession effects Rotating Blade Arrays - at even very low Airspeed & low RPM.
Knowing about such factoids is merely bemusing fun, for me ; but when planning on hovering 3 ft above his Backyard, then knowing about such subtle secondary & tertiary effects of disturbing a spinning Disc - might make a
LOT of difference to his day...(?).
Having those 3-D printed micro-striations running Chordwise might be good thing, for reducing the Parasite-Drag of the individual Blade Surfaces (?), in that Air is a Fluid and Water is a Fluid, and adding Stream-aligned surface-corrugations is known to reduce Parasite-Drag..., in Water, as used by Whales which have apparently evolved to swim faster, with less effort....; but I suspect that they may be a bit of an
"Own Goal" (?),
As regards resisting the
End-Loads on a spinning Turbine-Blade,
Glowing
Cherry-Red while in use.
Hopefully, the Boffins & Whizz-Kids know what they're on about..., least the Test-Cell be about to have it's
Structural sense of
Impeturbability put to the test -
If the Windmill in the
Blowtorch's Arse-blast
Commences to shed
High-Speed glowing
Fragments..., of 3-Dimensional
Printed
Mistaken
Best intentions...(!).
I love it that someone wanting to break new ground in Jet Aeroplanology has come to you, the Rejuvenator of Geriatric Squirt-Engines, Aeronautical & Industrial ; to rent your Test-Cell in which to run an old, proven, well-understood agglomeration of well-integrated Jet Engine Components ; while they
Play around
With ONE
Variable at a time.
Plastic Compressor Blades in one week's Session, and
3-D Printed Fire-Turbine Blades after rebuilding the Test-Unit & swapping-out the Experimental Articles...., in the next Series of runs.
Science,
Almost...
All you need, now, is some
Corroboration....
Bennelong performed the first Corrobberee in Europe, when Governor Arthur Phillip took him back there to show how well he had adapted to and adopted English Cultural Mannerisms...
Will you be seeking Australian or North AmeriKan Aborigines, with whom to corroborate whatever you discover, regarding the
Nature of Reality,
From your experimentations thus ?
(lol, Jokularis jokulii -
Although,
Corroberee IS an Australian Aboriginal word, and without Corroberation there is no
Science at all... ; so, one wonders quite what makes the EuroPeons today like to thunk that they
"Invented the Scientific Method of Problem Solving" ;
AFTER Bennelong showed the
EuroPeons what both a
Corroberee, and k
Corroberation
Is...?).
Going back to replacing the mildewed O-Rings in ancient Hangar-Queens, and rebuilding Industrial Power-units, & overhauling Airshow-Performers' spare Backup Engines...; after working up there at the very hairy Leading-Edge, of the World-leading
Cusp of 3-D Printed Metallurgy, Forged Carbon-Fibre Fabrication, and the
Shrouded Rotating
Helical Aerofoil-Arrays to be found at
Both ends of an
Axial-Flow
Turbojet Engine...(!).
Have you ever thought of
Taking in and training up an
Apprentice, while regarding this
Project as a
Crowning Achievement, however it turns out ; and then selling out to the Individual whom you'll train up to take over ?
The bloke who my son was apprenticed to did that...; and for 10 years he's had a $1k per week to retire on - with another 5 years to go..., while my son went from Tradesman to Proprietor at age 25.
"Vendor Finance" they call it.
The other option, for a Sole Proprietor being to potter on along, alone, until one either drops in one's tracks ; or wakes up dead in the morning (!).
This is a lovely Project you've been let loose to play with...
Thanks for posting it so we can all tag along, vicariously.
Such is life,
Have a good one...
Stay safe.
;-p
Ciao !
I'm not trying to downplay your excitement in the least for putting newer technology into an older engine, but I promise you, 3D printed parts have been used Extensively in modern aerospace engines. Most of the newest designs were proven for production using 3D metallic parts and the technology has not only improved from doing so (making the process and the parts for the better) but solutions from finding better ways to produce the parts have filtered through the process into making the printing machines themselves better for specific tasks as this.
Slightly different discipline from jet engines, but rocket engines are routinely using 3D metal printed in both lab and flight status, and it's an absolute boon seeing the path that it's taken the last 8 years from using powdered sintered feedstock as an R&D material to going to full production status parts. Siemens has an entire division devoted to this for aerospace use, as do a number of other recognizable names in the industry who perhaps don't or can't divulge specific detail into the public forum as much as they'd like to. We're getting to the point where the development software has direct options to print to metal rather than having to work through the engineering nylons first, which has been a tremendous time saver!
Yeah. It's not all that new, but it's new for us. We have only reproduced the factory part, but it's our first step.
Could I do an intership with you guys?
We are in Ft St John. your location is important.
@@AgentJayZ I'm from south Brazil...we are in opposite poles hehe. But is really hard to find shops like yours in here.
🛸
Closest traditional manufacture is sintering.
Norse Titanium has a shop that the State of New York funded for the exact purpose of creating turbine blades. The “ old “ airport was sitting idle and for ( to my mindset) funding was made available to a foreign company to be granted huge amounts of taxpayer money to build and equip a new industry. Time will tell……..
This project is completely funded by one wallet, owned by the founder of one company, right here in Canada.
8ve use carbon fibre forged blades and there relatively strong , doesn't space x use 3D printing metal and the surface looks very clean without impurities, almost shot peened