"Where I stand is where I fall", That scene was so well executed only made better by the amazing acting of those three. It gives you the want and need to help people. When I first saw this scene I was so in love. These three actors have my eternal gratitude. And Peter's speech gets my respect because of how it inspires you to do what's right.
I think the Simm Master was moved a little but not enough despite himself, but some of that feeling carried over when he became Missy and why she was more willing to work with him
@@JavertRA That's a great point actually. Yeah that is one of my favourite Doctor Who scenes of all time. Capaldi and Michelle Gomez knock it out the park in that serial. I just wish John Simms Master wasn't so awkwardly shoved into the story. But yeah god damn Capaldi will always be my favourite Doctor.
I just realised something: Technically, the Master has heard that kindness speech from the Doctor twice. First as "Saxon/Mr. Razor", where he practically laughs in his face, and, after possibly many hundreds of years since then, heard it once more as Missy, standing next to her arguably more evil and apathetic younger incarnation.
Thinking about it, it’s like the Day of the Doctor, while Missy didn’t remember the events cus it was a time where past and future intersected it was always running in the background, processing maybe a small reason why Missy actually changed by the end.
"They're not going to THINK like me. They're going to BECOME me" - The Master, 2010 "I'm not going to THINK like the Doctor. I'm going to BECOME the Doctor" - The Master, 2022
Also something of note: the Spy Master isn't the only incarnation of The Master to have wanted to steal the lives of The Doctor, the Bruce Master tried that, too. This just means that the writers are so lazy, that they keep writing the same plots all the time because after sixty years, you tend to lose creativity.
@@DoctorWhoKage I agree, I did draw a lot of the parallels between PotD and the 1996 movie. And now you've mentioned it, it basically feels like a shitty copy. I can understand the Bruce Master wanting it because he was near the end of his regeneration cycle. But the Spy Master seems to already have a new cycle?
@@EleventhDarkness well, since they gave him his "I'm a fucking psycho" personality back, I guess it also makes sense for the Spy Master to do it as well because trying to figure out the logic behind a madman's actions is like trying to figure out how to make a cat bark. It just isn't possible.
Not to sound like a cleverdick, but technically, he did. But it was when the Master was in the body of Councilman Tremas, but that was in a comic book, I think.
It’s true that would have been awesome, although I dare say it might have been good to put the Master out of our minds long enough to make the Missy reveal even more special
The Spy Master gives me such conflicting feelings. On the one hand, I hated that the character was reverted to pure evil without any acknowledgement of the character development their last incarnation had gone through. But on the other hand, I really enjoy the way Sacha Dhawan _plays_ the villainous character he's been given.
O is retroactively implied to the incarnation of the Master succeeding the Lumiat, a female incarnation of the Master whom Missy regenerated into using an Elysian field.O continues the Revived Series theme of the Master being unstable in some way. In this case, O has a very volatile temper and can explode at any moment his plans dont work. Unlike Saxon's jovial madness (later flawed resurrection) and Missy's goofy homicides, this is actually scarier as its less predictable
Necroposting and expanding on what the other reply was saying, the Spy Master or ‘O’ is very, very heavily implied (if not outright confirmed) to come after a regeneration called the Lumiat. Missy uses an Elysian Field, forbidden Time Lord tech, to cheat death and grant herself a new cycle of regenerations. She concentrates all that want to be better and character development into her new regeneration and takes her new name as a result, going back on her own timeline to foil Missy’s earth schemes and steer her towards being better. She, unfortunately, is killed for her efforts by Missy and forced to start regenerating. It’s implied the unstable nature of the Elysian Field combined with the traumatic nature of the regeneration is what led to the unhinged nature of the Spy Master, the Timeless Child reveal just being the straw that broke the camel’s back.
@@pownedmanstuff Fascinating; I always saw it as Missy regenerates into the Spy Master, discovers the whole mess with the Tmeless Child (I still think the twist should have been that the Timeless Child was the Master, not the Doctor), and is so filled with rage about the whole conspiracy of the Time Lords that it causes a psychological break.
@@pownedmanstuffThere's so many problems with such a major moment in the character's development being "implied". Plus in either case it still just undoes all the growth and development the Master had as Missy.
Being a fan of the master is so hard. Having to lose them time and time again. Then once you believe they're gone for good bang they're back when you least expect it
It's such a shame that Missy's arc was undone and ignored. The Master became so much more conflicted and interesting only for none of it to matter when they showed up again : (
@@CometStar100 The Master was always the bad guy. For almost 60 years of the show. It's nonsense, making him good when he is an iconic Doctor Who villain.
@@BaronMartin Well she was still a bad guy but she was not a full blown psycho anymore that wanted everything to die which is what the Master reverted back to without explanation. Also the character is getting tiresome now. There are other villains they could bring back instead of just using the Master.
Ah now I have mixed feelings for that finale. I mostly absolutely adore it and think its one of the most underrated Doctor Who serials of all time. World Enough and Time is such a brilliant idea and concept. However I also feel John Simms Master was a bit awkwardly shoved into the story. He doesn't really do much and within 2 minutes of being on screen his plan is completely destroyed. A sharp contrast to S3 finale which I also adored. That finale was great at showing how terrifying and powerful The Master can be. It also does a great job of showing the relationship between him and the Doctor. With that phone call between them, the Master admits how scared he was during the time war, admitting that he ran away. The Doctor also confesses to destroying the Time Lords. They are brutally honest with each other. However this new incarnation of the Master is just evil and thats that. There isn't a single mention of Missy's development in S10, no explanation of how she survived. It's just too big a change. Which is a shame, coz otherwise I think he's absolutely great at playing the Master.
@@jillboler4500 I just rewatched the season 10 finale and oh my god I forgot how good it is. Like bloody hell it's brilliant. Peter Capaldi is my favourite Doctor and he is so good. His speech with Missy and the Master gives me shivers. I also love how they use Bill's theme tune, but they make it distorted and broken because Bill is turned into a cyberman. It's a really tragic story, goes into places Doctor Who doesn't often go.
I'll go as far as saying it's the best Cyberman story out of all of them. Strangely, the next best interpretation of the Cybermen comes with The Lone Cyberman in Season 12. No matter what your opinion of Chibnall is, he was fantastic at showing how ruthless and unstoppable the cybermen are.
@@PhyzikTalks yes but don’t forget John Simms did a good job as the master as well, so to me John, missy, Peter and the cybermen are all brilliant in series 10.
The Master will always be one of the best Who antagonists on the show. I’d recommend everyone to listen to the Big Finish audiobooks for some more of them.
Totally agree. That said, one correction: *Big Finish audio dramas. The term "audiobook" makes it seem like they are books in audio form, with a narrator reading them. And for the most part, Big Finish doesn't produce those, but rather dramas in audio form, usually full-cast. Master stories especially are almost exclusively full-cast audio dramas (i.e. an episode without the visuals).
Mate I couldn't agree more. Some of the War Master audio dramas are the most twisted, terrifying Doctor Who stories ever created. Especially Master of Callous, that story wouldn't be allowed to be shown in the TV show coz it's so dark. I also believe Derek Jacobi is the best version of The Master, purely from his work in those audio dramas. The Master deserves dark stories. It also shows his more hypnotic, psychological torment. Great suggestion mate
@@edwinsoto6932 The way I usually explain it is simply: Audiobooks are one person (possibly more, but very rare) just reading a story. Audio *dramas* are like a full TV show/movie, just without the visual aspects.
What if the Master makes a surprise appearance in the next special, though not for a cliffhanger set up to the Centenary, and we get a sword fight between Sacha Dhawan and Jodie Whittaker? It’ll be perfect. The Doctor and Master have a sword fight in a Sea Devil story, then we get a (third) Sea Devil story fifty years later which marks their grand return. It’ll be interesting if not only do the SD return but also the Doctor/Master sword fight.
Missy easily the best. No other actor got so much to work with, and Michelle Gomez made it even better. Her portrayal was full of nuance, mischief and malevolence, but that look she gives to Capaldi after his "stand with me" speech is just heartbreaking. Who ever thought we'd get that from the Master?
One of my favourite Delgado moments is a quiet one from "The Sea Devils". He's watching the Clangers while incarcerated. Acts surprised when a guard tells him it's not real, but when he leans forward to turn the TV off, his eyeroll speaks volumes.
If you look closely at the wave that goes out at 19:06, you can actually see that it's made up of loose images of the Master's face. I never noticed that before, and I've watched the End of Time at least five or six times.
Got to say, Missy's my favorite version out of nuwho. Love the others, but I think they can both go too over the top sometimes, whereas Missy I think is the right amount of silly yet evil. And I love her relationship with twelve because I think the mutual respect and years of complex history highlighted between them more than other Doctor/Master relationships. Ten and Simms was more a connection as being the last timelords and outcasts in their society, while thirteen and Dhawan's was full on antogonistic. But with Twelve and Missy it really felt like they were simultaneously best friends and worst enemies. That's just my opinion tho, like I said, I think all nuwho masters have their strengths and weaknesses.
I honestly love all of them but I think my favourite has to be John Simm. The scene in "The Last of the Time Lords" where the Doctor is holding the Master in his arms, crying as he refuses to regenerate basically just out of spite, sticks with me even like 16 years later. It portrayed the Master well whilst also making me cry over losing such a character wholly due to the fact that (at the time at least) it left the Doctor alone as the last Time Lord in the universe.
Sacha is honestly a terrible Master. He just yells a lot and is a cheap cross between John Simm's Master and a knockoff Heath Ledger Joker impression. I honestly, and I'm not trying to sound rude or derisive, just genuinely don't understand how anyone could actually enjoy it. Most especially after such a perfect sendoff for the character with Missy. Even Simm's Master, with his craziness, had quiet moments where you saw the character underneath. Sacha's is just a caricature; a typical crazy psychopath villain. The Master was always Machiavellian, more Moriarty than Joker, even with Simm.
@@Patriarch.Chadimus Cope and seethe? There is nothing someone I don't know can say that can change my mind, im not interested in discussing anything with you. Fight with yourself.
I know I’m gonna get some hate for this, but I sorta understand why the Master destroyed Gallifrey. He went crazy because a signal they placed in his head for centuries, resurrected him only to fight in the biggest war ever, now we find out that everything he knew about himself was a lie, and that he is a living product of his oldest, greatest enemy. All that rage and pain and madness, would make anyone do anything.
Me personally I’ll always prefer the newest Master overall due to how chaotic and insane he sells the character It’s a nice fresh take on the master for me
It should come as no surprise that the Master turned even more psychotic than he already was. Imagine him coming to after regenerating only to realize that burned through 2 regenerations by killing himself TWICE over the damn doctor! I imagine that would drive any timelord batty LOL.
The spy master is my favorite. After having had so much hope in his ability to change, seeing that his very existence is a lie is sickening. Personally of all the masters, I think that Missy and him are the most stylish.
I feel that the doctor and the master are directly respective of how expressive they are. The master is slow, and methodical in Classic Who, along with many of the doctors. When 10 of NuWho comes around, he's a lot more emotional, and expressive, so was Simm's interpretation, and Missy, And Spymaster. Just more expressive and cartoonishly evil
Out of the Nu Who, I loved Missy, John Simm's Master was good but Michelle Gomez's version was chaos personified. Michelle seemed to have a blast playing her.
I agree that Michelle Gomez was absolutely perfect at playing the Master, but I do have issues. Her dialogue was far too focused on jokes and comedy. The Master should be frightening through dialogue alone. It's a shame because when Missy is saying simple stuff, like explaining her plan to use a Matrix data slice to create undead cybermen, she is brilliant! However in contrast, a scene like the one where she's threatening to kill Osgood, it's just tooo jokey jokey. Moffat said that scene was just to show how evil Missy is, killing off such a beloved character, but you don't need that to show how evil she is. I absolutely loved her arc in season 10, because she's more serious. Great to OTT at such speed: 'You know when you slop out, you're rotting' - fantastic 'It's our secret girl plan' - Too over the top.
Michelle Gomez, Roger Delgado, and Derek Jacobi will always be legendary in the role. My favorite Incarnations of the Master with the Mistress taking a surprise first (in terms of performance and writing). She did such a good job of feeling like a classic era terrifying Master while having her own iconic unpredictable poignant personality. Her having actual character development and an arc to give her conflict was also incredible. I easily would have accepted Series 10's the Doctor Falls as the end of the show with that God tier ending for the Doctor and the Master.
Pretty weird how War, Nine and Eleven are the only Doctors who haven't encountered the Master on-screen or explicitly been said to have encountered them off-screen
Anthony Ainley's master had the highest kill count of all Masters, Doctor's and all DW villains combined! He was so evil he killed people like killing insects. That's why to me he is the most LETHAL master. Don't want to give away for those who have not seen classic....WHO. "People's of the universe...please listen carefully....what I have to say is if of importance to you all"
No one will ever beat Rodger Delgado as the best master. He was perfect for it plus him and Pertwee were great friends outside of filming so they bounced off each other perfectly
Recently they've posted Cybermen best moments, now the Master's best moments, and more recently posts about the Sea Devils celebrating their 50 year anniversary. I'm confident we're gonna get a trailer soon.
I always thought it would be interesting if the War Chief was revealed to be who the Master was before becoming the Master and we know that the Master can avoid a Timelord's ability to recognize each other that the 10th Doctor revealed. Missy and Spy Master revealed this without a disguise and it may have something to do with hypnosis since they were still Timelords when compared to the War Master who's biology was human-like because of a watch.
My favourite master is missy Honestly, I think she should have been the final regeneration and shouldn't have come back again. I love the master, but it didn't make sense for them to continue after what happened at the end of season 10. It was amazing development for her as a character, and having O show up being evil again is ridiculous, especially when missy shouldn't have been able to regenerate anyway. It would have meant the master could have died a good person, and it would have been a satisfying end to the master as a character.
@@BigT.Larrity its confirmed she's not though: apparently she somehow regenerated into an incarnation called the luminat, who then regenerated into O. I wish that wasn't the case, but it is.
@@BigT.Larrity I genuinely wish that was the case. The Master meeting the Doctor chronologically never made sense to me, and it'd match his character arc. Hell, even his "I don't want to be me" spiel in the Power of the Doctor could perfectly lead into Missy's arc. so many things are retconned in the show so I hope this is made canon. I'd be a happy Doctor :)
@@bacontheshoe to be fair, unless this is a second hand account, it could be a lie. missy also told simms she isn't sure what happened between her and him.
I always get confused when I see previous doctor’s not criticising people for killing or using a sword against the master. Then I remember that it’s before the time war
Jhon Sim’s master could be manic at points but he was still intelligent but Sacha Dawaan’s master is just a bumbling fool that dumps out exposition with none of the intelligence of previous masters Sacha is just over the top
@@GoatManWithAplan Sachas master actually feels like the master tho. And sorry but Simm could not pull the crazy part of the master off. It felt way to force to me.
@@GoatManWithAplan You lack the authority. (One could also argue that your own membership isn't exactly secure, especially after defending the Simm Master - if we want to go around revoking them...)
the 3rd doctor was a badass. he was more of an action Doctor. I've notice with every new incarnation of the master. he become more insane. less of a serious mad man and more of a joker like looney. Saxon, Missy, and current one. have that joker vibe going on. going over the top with there antics.
I've got to say that if there's one thing I would change about recent Who stories it would be making the doctor the timeless child, seems like a wasted opportunity, you could introduce the timeless child as a companion and the doctor could be helping them rediscover their lost culture, history and the like.
@@JamesFrench96 Big Finish presents: "Spy Master: The Most Infuriating 77 Years". With the Dhawan Master taking care not to meet his predecessors, particularly Beevers (trapped there for about a century as well, if "Mastermind" can be believed) and Delgado (playing games with the Doctor throughout the latter's exile/stay). And of course he inevitably meets at least one other Master.
I really prefer the classic era Master - the one who seems like a cold-hearted strategist capable of intelligent and witty repartee with the Doctor and his companions. For me the Nu-Who Master has been a bit ‘one note’ - always the cackling madman/woman with a victimhood complex. The only exceptions to this have been Derek Jacobi and the final Capaldi storyline with the Cybermen, where there seemed to be a longer and more cunning game plan involved. It’s a real shame too because the actors involved are all skilled and accomplished actors, who are hampered by poor direction.
That is absolutely spot on. A version like Missy, whilst Michelle Gomez was perfect, had issues with the writing. She was bordering on a comic relief character, because every line of dialogue had a joke or silly comment in it. Since when is that what The Master is all about? My favourite version is Derek Jacobi in the Big Finish audio dramas. In those, he is a master manipulator, hypnotic and thinking 10 steps ahead of everyone. He's written like a genuine sociopath, charming and kind to emotionally manipulate those around him. If you haven't checked them out, I recommend The War Master - The Master of Callous. That story would never be allowed in the show coz its so dark. It shows how the master psychologically torments people to get what he wants. RTD's Master played by John Simms shares some of these issues but it's clear his relationship with the Doctor is much more complex, he's not just evil and trying to kill the doctor, he's actually brutally honest when talking to him, admitting his fears etc.
@@HerohammerStudios agreed. I find it humourous, personally, because I always saw ClassicMaster as more of an angsty teen and NuMaster as an older, less serious version who can make fun of themselves a bit.
I feel like 13’s master is so good, he was extremely ecstatic and really felt like a pure insane loose cannon. Yet somehow through that manages to retain a methodical reason for what he does. Definitely one of my favourites
Are you completely delusional? Sacha Dawaan’s Master is just cackling bumbling fool that dumps out exposition with none of the intelligence of previous masters!
@@GoatManWithAplan “with none of the intelligence” homie literally hid as an average dude in front of the doctor without her catching on lol. And then proceeded to find Gallifrey and merge cybermen with time lords. Sounds smart to me
To everyone saying spymaster doesn't make sense or that he should come before missy: you don't get the masters character, hope it helps. Have a good day
One of my favorite Master moments is when one of the Master duplicates in "The End of Time" throws his hat like its graduation and another duplicate puts it on and starts dancing.
This means The Doctor is not on the 15th Regeneration but more than likely on the 115th. Love the Timeless Child Arch. Means the Doctor is more than 1200 years old.
No one actually knows how many times The Doctor has regenerated before the Fugitive Doctor, but because he doesn't consider himself "The Doctor" until Hartnell, the 15th Doctor really is the 15th Doctor but the unknown number of regenerations. But even then after 11 regenerates into 12 he claims that he is over 2,000 years old. That's why most people hate the Timeless Child. Not because it's too complicated, but because having The Doctor be it contradicts it's own story in so many ways it becomes ridiculous.
Like all the Masters..wasn't overly keen on John Simm as Saxton but loved him when he turned up disguised on the Mondasian Cyber-ship. Missy was just Bananas and bonkers off the rails brilliant.
@@IG7799-c4u"My name's not Honey." "You want me to kill you?" The whole scene in the hospital where the front desk lady thinks he's Bruce. "I need the Doctor's body." "I always dress for the occasion." Him screaming "I'm alive!" At the end, tying into the Frankenstein parallels from before.
I love how Simm says “You would never be so self-destructive. Then again, neither would I.”
And not even two episodes later they both kill each other.
goes to show 1 how far missy has grown and 2 how much he can’t stand the thought of helping the Dr
Also he LITERALLY killed himself by refusing to regenerate, just to spite the Doctor. He died! Twice!
"Where I stand is where I fall", That scene was so well executed only made better by the amazing acting of those three. It gives you the want and need to help people. When I first saw this scene I was so in love. These three actors have my eternal gratitude. And Peter's speech gets my respect because of how it inspires you to do what's right.
I think the Simm Master was moved a little but not enough despite himself, but some of that feeling carried over when he became Missy and why she was more willing to work with him
@@JavertRA That's a great point actually. Yeah that is one of my favourite Doctor Who scenes of all time. Capaldi and Michelle Gomez knock it out the park in that serial. I just wish John Simms Master wasn't so awkwardly shoved into the story. But yeah god damn Capaldi will always be my favourite Doctor.
I just realised something: Technically, the Master has heard that kindness speech from the Doctor twice. First as "Saxon/Mr. Razor", where he practically laughs in his face, and, after possibly many hundreds of years since then, heard it once more as Missy, standing next to her arguably more evil and apathetic younger incarnation.
Thinking about it, it’s like the Day of the Doctor, while Missy didn’t remember the events cus it was a time where past and future intersected it was always running in the background, processing maybe a small reason why Missy actually changed by the end.
"They're not going to THINK like me. They're going to BECOME me" - The Master, 2010
"I'm not going to THINK like the Doctor. I'm going to BECOME the Doctor" - The Master, 2022
Also something of note: the Spy Master isn't the only incarnation of The Master to have wanted to steal the lives of The Doctor, the Bruce Master tried that, too. This just means that the writers are so lazy, that they keep writing the same plots all the time because after sixty years, you tend to lose creativity.
@@DoctorWhoKage I agree, I did draw a lot of the parallels between PotD and the 1996 movie. And now you've mentioned it, it basically feels like a shitty copy. I can understand the Bruce Master wanting it because he was near the end of his regeneration cycle. But the Spy Master seems to already have a new cycle?
@@EleventhDarkness well, since they gave him his "I'm a fucking psycho" personality back, I guess it also makes sense for the Spy Master to do it as well because trying to figure out the logic behind a madman's actions is like trying to figure out how to make a cat bark. It just isn't possible.
It's a Shame that The Eleventh Doctor never got to Encounter The Master during his tenure
Not to sound like a cleverdick, but technically, he did. But it was when the Master was in the body of Councilman Tremas, but that was in a comic book, I think.
I know he didn’t meet him but he did mention him in A Town Called Mercy
@@nicktroisi6347 hopefully big finish will jump in the chance
Always a chance Matt Smith makes a special appearance one day and crosses the Master with the Doctor at the time.
It’s true that would have been awesome, although I dare say it might have been good to put the Master out of our minds long enough to make the Missy reveal even more special
The Spy Master gives me such conflicting feelings. On the one hand, I hated that the character was reverted to pure evil without any acknowledgement of the character development their last incarnation had gone through. But on the other hand, I really enjoy the way Sacha Dhawan _plays_ the villainous character he's been given.
O is retroactively implied to the incarnation of the Master succeeding the Lumiat, a female incarnation of the Master whom Missy regenerated into using an Elysian field.O continues the Revived Series theme of the Master being unstable in some way. In this case, O has a very volatile temper and can explode at any moment his plans dont work. Unlike Saxon's jovial madness (later flawed resurrection) and Missy's goofy homicides, this is actually scarier as its less predictable
Necroposting and expanding on what the other reply was saying, the Spy Master or ‘O’ is very, very heavily implied (if not outright confirmed) to come after a regeneration called the Lumiat. Missy uses an Elysian Field, forbidden Time Lord tech, to cheat death and grant herself a new cycle of regenerations. She concentrates all that want to be better and character development into her new regeneration and takes her new name as a result, going back on her own timeline to foil Missy’s earth schemes and steer her towards being better. She, unfortunately, is killed for her efforts by Missy and forced to start regenerating.
It’s implied the unstable nature of the Elysian Field combined with the traumatic nature of the regeneration is what led to the unhinged nature of the Spy Master, the Timeless Child reveal just being the straw that broke the camel’s back.
@@pownedmanstuff Fascinating; I always saw it as Missy regenerates into the Spy Master, discovers the whole mess with the Tmeless Child (I still think the twist should have been that the Timeless Child was the Master, not the Doctor), and is so filled with rage about the whole conspiracy of the Time Lords that it causes a psychological break.
@@pokinfunatcartman That’s pretty much it with the extra step of the Lumiat thrown in there between them
@@pownedmanstuffThere's so many problems with such a major moment in the character's development being "implied". Plus in either case it still just undoes all the growth and development the Master had as Missy.
Being a fan of the master is so hard. Having to lose them time and time again. Then once you believe they're gone for good bang they're back when you least expect it
They're honestly the only consistently good character across every series
It's such a shame that Missy's arc was undone and ignored. The Master became so much more conflicted and interesting only for none of it to matter when they showed up again : (
Could be that Sacha is between Simm and Gomez
Yeah agreed. The Master was finally. taking a step forward in his character development then Chibs was like nope lol.
@@mrcritical6751 It's confirmed that Sacha is after Gomez.
@@CometStar100 The Master was always the bad guy. For almost 60 years of the show. It's nonsense, making him good when he is an iconic Doctor Who villain.
@@BaronMartin Well she was still a bad guy but she was not a full blown psycho anymore that wanted everything to die which is what the Master reverted back to without explanation. Also the character is getting tiresome now. There are other villains they could bring back instead of just using the Master.
John Simm in series 10 was brilliant when he return after series 3 and two part special he blows my mind away.
Ah now I have mixed feelings for that finale. I mostly absolutely adore it and think its one of the most underrated Doctor Who serials of all time. World Enough and Time is such a brilliant idea and concept. However I also feel John Simms Master was a bit awkwardly shoved into the story. He doesn't really do much and within 2 minutes of being on screen his plan is completely destroyed. A sharp contrast to S3 finale which I also adored. That finale was great at showing how terrifying and powerful The Master can be. It also does a great job of showing the relationship between him and the Doctor. With that phone call between them, the Master admits how scared he was during the time war, admitting that he ran away. The Doctor also confesses to destroying the Time Lords. They are brutally honest with each other. However this new incarnation of the Master is just evil and thats that. There isn't a single mention of Missy's development in S10, no explanation of how she survived. It's just too big a change. Which is a shame, coz otherwise I think he's absolutely great at playing the Master.
@@PhyzikTalks oh yeah.
@@jillboler4500 I just rewatched the season 10 finale and oh my god I forgot how good it is. Like bloody hell it's brilliant. Peter Capaldi is my favourite Doctor and he is so good. His speech with Missy and the Master gives me shivers. I also love how they use Bill's theme tune, but they make it distorted and broken because Bill is turned into a cyberman. It's a really tragic story, goes into places Doctor Who doesn't often go.
I'll go as far as saying it's the best Cyberman story out of all of them. Strangely, the next best interpretation of the Cybermen comes with The Lone Cyberman in Season 12. No matter what your opinion of Chibnall is, he was fantastic at showing how ruthless and unstoppable the cybermen are.
@@PhyzikTalks yes but don’t forget John Simms did a good job as the master as well, so to me John, missy, Peter and the cybermen are all brilliant in series 10.
23:08 love Missy's little gasp after she reveals she is the master.
That’s when Dr Who died
@@mrangryeyes4789 damn what a loser
I love how you didn't call this "Best Moments" but ICONIC moments and you are right to do so because the Master IS Iconic!
The Master will always be one of the best Who antagonists on the show. I’d recommend everyone to listen to the Big Finish audiobooks for some more of them.
Totally agree.
That said, one correction: *Big Finish audio dramas.
The term "audiobook" makes it seem like they are books in audio form, with a narrator reading them. And for the most part, Big Finish doesn't produce those, but rather dramas in audio form, usually full-cast. Master stories especially are almost exclusively full-cast audio dramas (i.e. an episode without the visuals).
Mate I couldn't agree more. Some of the War Master audio dramas are the most twisted, terrifying Doctor Who stories ever created. Especially Master of Callous, that story wouldn't be allowed to be shown in the TV show coz it's so dark. I also believe Derek Jacobi is the best version of The Master, purely from his work in those audio dramas. The Master deserves dark stories. It also shows his more hypnotic, psychological torment. Great suggestion mate
@@edwinsoto6932 The way I usually explain it is simply:
Audiobooks are one person (possibly more, but very rare) just reading a story.
Audio *dramas* are like a full TV show/movie, just without the visual aspects.
@@edwinsoto6932 my bad. They are dramas, not books.
He's not one of the best
The Master
Is
THE best
Roger Delgado will always be THE Master. Him and Jon Pertwee were brilliant together. Especially during the sword fight in The Sea Devils ⚔️
Yep!!
What if the Master makes a surprise appearance in the next special, though not for a cliffhanger set up to the Centenary, and we get a sword fight between Sacha Dhawan and Jodie Whittaker?
It’ll be perfect.
The Doctor and Master have a sword fight in a Sea Devil story, then we get a (third) Sea Devil story fifty years later which marks their grand return. It’ll be interesting if not only do the SD return but also the Doctor/Master sword fight.
I can't agree more. Delgado was an amazing actor who defined the master in the same way Pertwee and Baker defined the doctor
Anthony Ainsley and John Simm say otherwise.
Pure unadulterated ham.
Two old grandads prancing about.
An utter cringefest.
😂😂😂
Missy easily the best. No other actor got so much to work with, and Michelle Gomez made it even better. Her portrayal was full of nuance, mischief and malevolence, but that look she gives to Capaldi after his "stand with me" speech is just heartbreaking. Who ever thought we'd get that from the Master?
Roger Delgado.
One of my favourite Delgado moments is a quiet one from "The Sea Devils". He's watching the Clangers while incarcerated. Acts surprised when a guard tells him it's not real, but when he leans forward to turn the TV off, his eyeroll speaks volumes.
If you look closely at the wave that goes out at 19:06, you can actually see that it's made up of loose images of the Master's face. I never noticed that before, and I've watched the End of Time at least five or six times.
Got to say, Missy's my favorite version out of nuwho. Love the others, but I think they can both go too over the top sometimes, whereas Missy I think is the right amount of silly yet evil. And I love her relationship with twelve because I think the mutual respect and years of complex history highlighted between them more than other Doctor/Master relationships. Ten and Simms was more a connection as being the last timelords and outcasts in their society, while thirteen and Dhawan's was full on antogonistic. But with Twelve and Missy it really felt like they were simultaneously best friends and worst enemies. That's just my opinion tho, like I said, I think all nuwho masters have their strengths and weaknesses.
I honestly love all of them but I think my favourite has to be John Simm. The scene in "The Last of the Time Lords" where the Doctor is holding the Master in his arms, crying as he refuses to regenerate basically just out of spite, sticks with me even like 16 years later. It portrayed the Master well whilst also making me cry over losing such a character wholly due to the fact that (at the time at least) it left the Doctor alone as the last Time Lord in the universe.
Wrong. The Simm Master is the best. Sacha's was so cold and calculated,but John Simm's version played it better than the others by a mile
I love every Master ever but Sacha and Delgado are another level.
@@jamesmayle3787 i only believe in our lord and savior The Master
Sacha is honestly a terrible Master. He just yells a lot and is a cheap cross between John Simm's Master and a knockoff Heath Ledger Joker impression. I honestly, and I'm not trying to sound rude or derisive, just genuinely don't understand how anyone could actually enjoy it. Most especially after such a perfect sendoff for the character with Missy. Even Simm's Master, with his craziness, had quiet moments where you saw the character underneath. Sacha's is just a caricature; a typical crazy psychopath villain. The Master was always Machiavellian, more Moriarty than Joker, even with Simm.
@@Patriarch.Chadimus yess yess whatever. I didnt ask you wrong opinion, make your own comment
@@jessbelen Cope and seethe, he sucks
@@Patriarch.Chadimus Cope and seethe? There is nothing someone I don't know can say that can change my mind, im not interested in discussing anything with you. Fight with yourself.
I know I’m gonna get some hate for this, but I sorta understand why the Master destroyed Gallifrey. He went crazy because a signal they placed in his head for centuries, resurrected him only to fight in the biggest war ever, now we find out that everything he knew about himself was a lie, and that he is a living product of his oldest, greatest enemy. All that rage and pain and madness, would make anyone do anything.
Yep, I just wish Missy was chronologically after Dhawan. It'd make everything more heartbreaking and Missy's actions just that much more sad.
@@The-Doctor6969 this is why I keep it in my headcanon that O comes between Saxon and Missy - it works so much better
In terms of that point, I most definitely feel an affinity with him
Agreed
3:13 AKIDAAAAAA!!! Love how over the top the 3rd Doctor was.
I enjoy all incarnations of the Master, but Roger Delgado is my favorite
Me personally I’ll always prefer the newest Master overall due to how chaotic and insane he sells the character
It’s a nice fresh take on the master for me
It should come as no surprise that the Master turned even more psychotic than he already was. Imagine him coming to after regenerating only to realize that burned through 2 regenerations by killing himself TWICE over the damn doctor! I imagine that would drive any timelord batty LOL.
The spy master is my favorite. After having had so much hope in his ability to change, seeing that his very existence is a lie is sickening. Personally of all the masters, I think that Missy and him are the most stylish.
I feel that the doctor and the master are directly respective of how expressive they are. The master is slow, and methodical in Classic Who, along with many of the doctors. When 10 of NuWho comes around, he's a lot more emotional, and expressive, so was Simm's interpretation, and Missy, And Spymaster. Just more expressive and cartoonishly evil
Missy, the handcuffs, snd the countdown. Classic, wow , fantastic.
Out of the Nu Who, I loved Missy, John Simm's Master was good but Michelle Gomez's version was chaos personified. Michelle seemed to have a blast playing her.
Fully agree!
I agree that Michelle Gomez was absolutely perfect at playing the Master, but I do have issues. Her dialogue was far too focused on jokes and comedy. The Master should be frightening through dialogue alone. It's a shame because when Missy is saying simple stuff, like explaining her plan to use a Matrix data slice to create undead cybermen, she is brilliant! However in contrast, a scene like the one where she's threatening to kill Osgood, it's just tooo jokey jokey. Moffat said that scene was just to show how evil Missy is, killing off such a beloved character, but you don't need that to show how evil she is. I absolutely loved her arc in season 10, because she's more serious. Great to OTT at such speed:
'You know when you slop out, you're rotting' - fantastic
'It's our secret girl plan' - Too over the top.
Yeah I liked them both too and I liked Derek Jacobi as well even though we only saw him for only episode. He's so great in Big Finish as well.
@@jamesmayle3787 Hey look who got released from the asylum. Even Jesus thinks you're a d*ck.
Michelle Gomez, Roger Delgado, and Derek Jacobi will always be legendary in the role. My favorite Incarnations of the Master with the Mistress taking a surprise first (in terms of performance and writing). She did such a good job of feeling like a classic era terrifying Master while having her own iconic unpredictable poignant personality. Her having actual character development and an arc to give her conflict was also incredible. I easily would have accepted Series 10's the Doctor Falls as the end of the show with that God tier ending for the Doctor and the Master.
Pretty weird how War, Nine and Eleven are the only Doctors who haven't encountered the Master on-screen or explicitly been said to have encountered them off-screen
I would love a new “How many times have I told you, violence will get you nowhere” moment in new who
Anthony Ainley's master had the highest kill count of all Masters, Doctor's and all DW villains combined! He was so evil he killed people like killing insects. That's why to me he is the most LETHAL master. Don't want to give away for those who have not seen classic....WHO. "People's of the universe...please listen carefully....what I have to say is if of importance to you all"
I agree with you completely his Master was the best until Missy came along
IMDB TV and Pluto TV have 24/7 Classic Doctor who channels
@@tazshking666 I love missy!
I have a lot of love for Ainley's Master.
Sacha’s master just scares me. He’s just so crazy and unpredictable
The reveal with David Jacobi as the master is still the best plot twist from Dr Who
No one will ever beat Rodger Delgado as the best master. He was perfect for it plus him and Pertwee were great friends outside of filming so they bounced off each other perfectly
I adored Missy's energy. Reminded me of Moriarty in Sherlock.
"I.. WAited... fOr.. YoU!..." - that alone was heartbreaking
"you are good doctor but not good enough" that's because you have seen the quality of my footwork" I died laughing there for a bit
It's one of my favourite lines from classic who haha, the third doctor is brill
9:58 "Alas, modesty forbids such a claim."
For some reason I just love that line.
The Mistress is like a psychotic Mary Poppins.
Scary Poppins
Why didn't we had more john simm moments ? This is my favourite master.
Yeah me too. Especially, I would have liked to see the Eleventh Doctor against this version of the Master.
Mine too John simm was great 😊
Because he is so annoying.
@@mayotango1317 why ?
@@tristanribeiro7903 He is just like the Lex Luthor Jr in Batman v Superman.
I love how the cyberman is so disappointed when the master wants to help the doctor that he makes the "Huh" sound like the meme 12:45
12:44 Enter Cyberman. Augh.mp3.Refuses to elaborate. Leaves.
I demand that this video be updated to include the glorious Rapsutin moment.
Given how batshit crazy "O" could get I wouldn't put it past him to have cooked(or coked) up the entire replace Rasputin thing just for the dance.
I agree!
@@jtfbreedlovegot that one right
Recently they've posted Cybermen best moments, now the Master's best moments, and more recently posts about the Sea Devils celebrating their 50 year anniversary.
I'm confident we're gonna get a trailer soon.
trailer for what specifically?
@@sadmanadib8536 The new special coming out in time for the BBC's 100th.
12:45 - When you walk into the toilet but someone is already in there.
I always thought it would be interesting if the War Chief was revealed to be who the Master was before becoming the Master and we know that the Master can avoid a Timelord's ability to recognize each other that the 10th Doctor revealed. Missy and Spy Master revealed this without a disguise and it may have something to do with hypnosis since they were still Timelords when compared to the War Master who's biology was human-like because of a watch.
Yeah I’ve always thought the war chief was the master before Delgado incarnation
My favourite master is missy
Honestly, I think she should have been the final regeneration and shouldn't have come back again. I love the master, but it didn't make sense for them to continue after what happened at the end of season 10. It was amazing development for her as a character, and having O show up being evil again is ridiculous, especially when missy shouldn't have been able to regenerate anyway. It would have meant the master could have died a good person, and it would have been a satisfying end to the master as a character.
Some people believe she came after O so that her character arc could remain intact
@@BigT.Larrity its confirmed she's not though: apparently she somehow regenerated into an incarnation called the luminat, who then regenerated into O. I wish that wasn't the case, but it is.
@@BigT.Larrity I genuinely wish that was the case. The Master meeting the Doctor chronologically never made sense to me, and it'd match his character arc. Hell, even his "I don't want to be me" spiel in the Power of the Doctor could perfectly lead into Missy's arc. so many things are retconned in the show so I hope this is made canon. I'd be a happy Doctor :)
@@bacontheshoe to be fair, unless this is a second hand account, it could be a lie. missy also told simms she isn't sure what happened between her and him.
@@bacontheshoe Where was this confirmed?
Would have made more sense for the timeless child to be the master since he clearly ran out of regenerations way before the doctor.
The master Moriarty to the doctor's Sherlock Holmes you can't have one without the other ❤️
I always get confused when I see previous doctor’s not criticising people for killing or using a sword against the master. Then I remember that it’s before the time war
John Simm is a perfect actor to play The Master
A loucura desse mestre é a maior entre todos eles.
He is like a mix of Sunset and Sonata always enjoying fun with his friend as both an arch nemesis and a friend
Look I’m a millennial and Rodger Delgado and John Simm are still my favourite incarnations, they were both incredible as The Master.
John SI
There’s hope for you millennials yet realising old school is always better than new school.
I really don't get how people say Sachas master is to over the top but not Simms.
Jhon Sim’s master could be manic at points but he was still intelligent but Sacha Dawaan’s master is just a bumbling fool that dumps out exposition with none of the intelligence of previous masters Sacha is just over the top
@@GoatManWithAplan Sachas master actually feels like the master tho. And sorry but Simm could not pull the crazy part of the master off. It felt way to force to me.
@@joey_filmz I’m revoking your whovian membership
@@GoatManWithAplan You lack the authority.
(One could also argue that your own membership isn't exactly secure, especially after defending the Simm Master - if we want to go around revoking them...)
the 3rd doctor was a badass. he was more of an action Doctor.
I've notice with every new incarnation of the master. he become more insane. less of a serious mad man and more of a joker like looney. Saxon, Missy, and current one. have that joker vibe going on. going over the top with there antics.
36:34 I don't know why but the match box reveal combined with the music made laugh 😆
Delgado and Gomez are top tier. Most others lack the charm or lean waaay too hard into the *craaaazy* side
The master turning everyone on earth into him was such a great idea. I lived thag episode
i lived thag episode too!
And we all know who pinched that one fight between the Doctor and the Master... and wrote something about "high ground"
Dhawan is genuinely surprised when he viewed the original Master. Delgado absolute stillness is scene stealing
I LOVE Sacha Dhawan as the Master, I wish he could be the next Doctor's unruly companion!
As much as I loved Missy, I have to say that I really, really love this new Master. He's twisted. 😂
Say what you will, but the sequence from 38:43 is pretty badass.
Anyone who loves the Master needs to listen to Big Finish "The War Master" series, because it is the absolute best
Loved John Sims as the Master, Missy and OH..... all mad as a box of toads and thoroughly watchable in their own way
I've got to say that if there's one thing I would change about recent Who stories it would be making the doctor the timeless child, seems like a wasted opportunity, you could introduce the timeless child as a companion and the doctor could be helping them rediscover their lost culture, history and the like.
I definitely like the idea but i feel like it shouldn’t be the doctor
Seriously they could've done why better than frozen2 this thing
The Master could be lying though.
This latest incarnation of the Master is literally the only good thing to come out of the Chibnall era
No. Not all of Chibnall or Jodie’s era was bad. Some of it was alright.
Where is the *Deadly Assassin* Master? Is he safe? Is he alright?
He’s burnt to death but I’m sure he’s living his best life!
theory: when the master got stuck in 1943 he could of come across delgado or ainleys masters
Big Finish should do a story where that scenario happens.
@@JamesFrench96 Big Finish presents: "Spy Master: The Most Infuriating 77 Years".
With the Dhawan Master taking care not to meet his predecessors, particularly Beevers (trapped there for about a century as well, if "Mastermind" can be believed) and Delgado (playing games with the Doctor throughout the latter's exile/stay).
And of course he inevitably meets at least one other Master.
Just like how every single Doctor has been at least once in November 1963 Lmao
It’s okay babe, you can say he’s in the special, go on!
I really prefer the classic era Master - the one who seems like a cold-hearted strategist capable of intelligent and witty repartee with the Doctor and his companions. For me the Nu-Who Master has been a bit ‘one note’ - always the cackling madman/woman with a victimhood complex. The only exceptions to this have been Derek Jacobi and the final Capaldi storyline with the Cybermen, where there seemed to be a longer and more cunning game plan involved. It’s a real shame too because the actors involved are all skilled and accomplished actors, who are hampered by poor direction.
That is absolutely spot on. A version like Missy, whilst Michelle Gomez was perfect, had issues with the writing. She was bordering on a comic relief character, because every line of dialogue had a joke or silly comment in it. Since when is that what The Master is all about? My favourite version is Derek Jacobi in the Big Finish audio dramas. In those, he is a master manipulator, hypnotic and thinking 10 steps ahead of everyone. He's written like a genuine sociopath, charming and kind to emotionally manipulate those around him. If you haven't checked them out, I recommend The War Master - The Master of Callous. That story would never be allowed in the show coz its so dark. It shows how the master psychologically torments people to get what he wants. RTD's Master played by John Simms shares some of these issues but it's clear his relationship with the Doctor is much more complex, he's not just evil and trying to kill the doctor, he's actually brutally honest when talking to him, admitting his fears etc.
Very well put
I definitely wouldn't say poor direction. This is very much just a case of preference
@@HerohammerStudios agreed. I find it humourous, personally, because I always saw ClassicMaster as more of an angsty teen and NuMaster as an older, less serious version who can make fun of themselves a bit.
We need more of Roger's charm and class in future Masters.
ICONIC moments because he’s an ICON
14:45
“Sorry, Moustache.”
18:38 I remember a fan once suggested that the woman was actually Jackie Tyler.
I feel like 13’s master is so good, he was extremely ecstatic and really felt like a pure insane loose cannon. Yet somehow through that manages to retain a methodical reason for what he does. Definitely one of my favourites
As much as I love the prior masters before him, I gotta admit your right, he really did fit into that role really well.
Are you completely delusional? Sacha Dawaan’s Master is just cackling bumbling fool that dumps out exposition with none of the intelligence of previous masters!
It's a shame his master ruins the ending of missy's story arc
John simm was my fav
@@GoatManWithAplan “with none of the intelligence” homie literally hid as an average dude in front of the doctor without her catching on lol. And then proceeded to find Gallifrey and merge cybermen with time lords. Sounds smart to me
TBH the Spy Master is one of my favorite incarnations, right behind Simms Master
Sacha Dhawan is the best master in my opinion, just absolutely kills it in the role
“Sorry, must dash”
The spy master ties with John simm, amazing acting.
Not quite sure why you chose to go from The Keeper of Traken straight to Kings Demons and missed out Ainley in Logopolis and Castrovalva ?
To everyone saying spymaster doesn't make sense or that he should come before missy: you don't get the masters character, hope it helps. Have a good day
Delgado is king
One of my favorite Master moments is when one of the Master duplicates in "The End of Time" throws his hat like its graduation and another duplicate puts it on and starts dancing.
Hope The Master is around for the 13th Doctors final outing!
He is. Remember what Time said to Thirteen? “You don’t know the weight of the forces amassing against you … and their master.”
@@TheProfessorWhat-t2y Time never said that?
What I would give to see a Roger Degado Master in the modern show.
Wow soooooooo many years of the
Master.
This means The Doctor is not on the 15th Regeneration but more than likely on the 115th. Love the Timeless Child Arch. Means the Doctor is more than 1200 years old.
No one actually knows how many times The Doctor has regenerated before the Fugitive Doctor, but because he doesn't consider himself "The Doctor" until Hartnell, the 15th Doctor really is the 15th Doctor but the unknown number of regenerations. But even then after 11 regenerates into 12 he claims that he is over 2,000 years old.
That's why most people hate the Timeless Child. Not because it's too complicated, but because having The Doctor be it contradicts it's own story in so many ways it becomes ridiculous.
12:45 I laughed way too hard at this
AUGH
20:44 - Honestly such a good president. Financial problems, deleted duh
+ Rasputin Dance in "The Power of the Doctor(2022)"
John Simm and Michelle Gomez are my favourite as The Master and Missy I love them
how can Jo ever think she's not that smart when she can do pretty quick maths under such pressure
Can't believe this got uploaded 4 days ago and I didn't see it the second it was uploaded.... yep love The Master that much 😂💜💜
Like all the Masters..wasn't overly keen on John Simm as Saxton but loved him when he turned up disguised on the Mondasian Cyber-ship. Missy was just Bananas and bonkers off the rails brilliant.
The Masters return in utopia is missing from this, which sucks because that's probably the best thing new who has ever done
Missy was the best version of the Master.
Hey Missy
Missy. ❤️
That's it.
Nothing else to add.
Dr's best enemy
No special mention for Eric Roberts’ Master?
What was his iconic moment?
@@IG7799-c4u "I always dress for the occasion "
Eric Roberts Master is much better in Big Finish anyway.
@@IG7799-c4u"My name's not Honey."
"You want me to kill you?"
The whole scene in the hospital where the front desk lady thinks he's Bruce.
"I need the Doctor's body."
"I always dress for the occasion."
Him screaming "I'm alive!" At the end, tying into the Frankenstein parallels from before.
No matter how you rank the other versions of the Master on your own personal list, Delgado should always be #1.
Tony Stark may not lay down on the barbwire... But, The Doctor will.