Support Antony by buying his books: The Book of Samurai: Book One: The Fundamental Teachings amazon.com/dp/1780288883 amazon.co.uk/dp/1780288883 True Path of the Ninja: The Definitive Translation of the Shoninki (An Authentic Ninja Training Manual) amazon.com/dp/4805314397 amazon.co.uk/dp/4805314397 Ninja Skills: The Authentic Ninja Training Manual amazon.com/dp/1786780623 amazon.co.uk/dp/1786780623 Modern Ninja Warfare: Ninja Tactics for the Modern Warrior amazon.com/dp/4805314818 amazon.co.uk/dp/4805314818 The Book of Ninja: The Bansenshukai - Japan's Premier Ninja Manual amazon.com/dp/1780284934 amazon.co.uk/dp/1780284934 The Ultimate Art of War: A Step-by-Step Illustrated Guide to Sun Tzu's Teachings amazon.com/dp/B07NCNMTVS amazon.co.uk/dp/B07NCNMTVS The Secret Traditions of the Shinobi: Hattori Hanzo's Shinobi Hiden and Other Ninja Scrolls amazon.com/dp/1583944354 amazon.co.uk/dp/1583944354 Iga and Koka Ninja Skills: The Secret Shinobi Scrolls of Chikamatsu Shigenori amazon.com/dp/075095664X amazon.co.uk/dp/075095664X Samurai Arms, Armour & the Tactics of Warfare: The Collected Scrolls of Natori-Ryu (Book of Samurai 2) amazon.com/dp/1786781735 amazon.co.uk/dp/1786781735 The Dark Side of Japan: Ancient Black Magic, Folklore, Ritual amazon.com/dp/B0751JG4R4 amazon.co.uk/dp/B0751JG4R4 Old Japan: Secrets from the Shores of the Samurai amazon.com/dp/0750984422 amazon.co.uk/dp/0750984422 In Search of the Ninja: The Historical Truth of Ninjutsu amazon.com/dp/0752492101 amazon.co.uk/dp/0752492101 The Lost Samurai School: Secrets of Mubyoshi Ryu amazon.com/dp/1623170877 amazon.co.uk/dp/1623170877 How To Be a Modern Samurai: 10 Steps To Finding Your Power & Achieving Success amazon.com/dp/1786783541 amazon.co.uk/dp/1786783541 The Lost Warfare of India: An Illustrated Guide amazon.com/dp/1537272209 amazon.co.uk/dp/1537272209 Samurai War Stories: Teachings and Tales of Samurai Warfare amazon.com/dp/0752490001 amazon.co.uk/dp/0752490001 The Ultimate Guide to Yin Yang amazon.com/dp/1786785153 amazon.co.uk/dp/1786785153
I studied Bujinkan and it is an effective art that does have and is made of traditional Japanese M.A. . However that doesn't make it Ninjitsu from history. I truly believe Anthony is right 100%. I am not taking anything away from Bujinkan, I still practice those techniques. I don't refer to it as Ninjitsu . Ninjitsu is guerilla warfare used in 15th and 16th century. I am sure that the techniques are loosely very similar but as Anthony says there is no direct lineage. That doesn't mean Bujinkan is totally fake it just means that it's not what most people think it is and it doesn't mean it's useless. 💖🇦🇺
Sean Askew has already proved Takamatsu's grandfather was Oniwaban in the Tokyo National Archives. His name was Toda Hisajiro (Shinryuken Masamitsu was a Bugo/warrior name in his densho). Hisajiro was a top falconer to the shogun and a top spy in the Oniwaban, and intermarried with the Hattori's (yes....THOSE Hattori's). He was in the Suwa Ryu falconry school which still exists. The falconer pass for the shogun allowed him to move around the country and through checkpoints. He is also listed as a sword instructor at the Edo Kobusho like Takamatsu said (and yes those records exist too and can be seen). Hatsumi Sensei was just as surpirsed to see the records, as his stories in his densho lined up exactly to what Sean found (and made 100% public). These are public domain records that can be read online. They have been scanned in and are readable. Marriage records, birth records, death records, positions in the network, etc. Antony can't read Japanese. Other people read it for him. He knows all about this and chooses to ignore it in his videos or treat it as if it doesnt exist. This whole video is a lie because there was an actual spy network in the Edo period comprised of historic Iga families, and Antony keeps trying to jump back to the Sengoku Jiddai thinks that koryu didnt pass through the Edo period at all. There is even proof that ninja continued to be trained in Iga area and then were cycled into this network in Edo and the rest of the country. The majority of scrolls we have about ancient samurai life were written during the Edo period. Again....this is no secret to people who can read Japanese. Antony is a pathological SELECTIVE "historical researcher." This is getting VERY old. Buy Hidden Lineage by Sean Askew....worth the read. Not only was Takamatsu's grandfather skilled in ninjutsu, he was part of the elite group still using it in the late 19th century.
i think you have the correct outlook...it does n't matter if it actually is a ninjutsu/espionage system ,it is an excellent fighting style and that is what matters...it's a natural and aggressive way of fighting and it actually emerges and saves your life when needed ,it is an astonishing fighting tradition.i use to study it and will again given the chance .and i will persist that, what i call takamatsu ryu, is a life saver...(note : i had the chance to study a tibetan dragon-eagle style and some bujinkan techniques where practically identical ,it seems that the the bujinkan art has at least some Tibetan kung fu roots... )
I am still a follower of takamatsu bujinkan. I feel all should follow the bansenshukhai follow what it says to respect the old ways and adapt to modern as Bruce Lee said just like the ancients use what is useful discard what is useless.
Its a credit to you anthony cummins..thanks you for bringing actual facts to the conversation,i trained in bujinkan myself 20 yrs ago..and i always felt something wasnt right,,now im on a new journey,have purchased all your books 📚 and look forward to many more.thank you for all your hard work and for simply bringing the truth..much appreciated 🙏🙏🙏
I was a Ninjutsu practitioner for 25 years on and off in Australia under Sensei wyane roy. I found out it is not as it seems as did my sensei over time. Masaaki is a money making fraud, and so is the Bujikan. But, can you tell us what is the truth. Some training is legit, however most is not and the training given by these instructors is not practical and generally useless and not practiced at speed nor force.
need more people explaining complicated things in such good example and your accent just makes it perfect :D keep doing the good work wish you luck and prosperity and appreciate your content a lot - thank you very much man !!!
😎👍 Thank you for this insight. I'm now dropping the word 'Ninpo' (Ninja/Ninja-Way) from association with the words Tai-Jitsu (Body-Art). It appears that Takematsu - a Japanese man who is said to have lived in China for quite awhile - did what the Chinese often do when they 'create' a 'new' martial-art style: they respectively atttibute it to a legendary master or a myth/story; & this is why tracing some Chinese martial-art lineages gets difficult/problematic. Attributing one's own creative work to someone else is quite common in eastern societies. Exactly why, I don't know; but the Chinese in particular - up until the communist take-over - tended to believe that old meant good: thst older was better (the opposite of many westerners way of thinking that newer is better; note: IMO neither way of thinking is absolutely correct in all matters). Also, please note that during Takamatsu's lifetime there was in Japan an increasing appreciation of things Japanese - even to the point of over-appreciation (which still lingers); also, during this time a specifically anti-Chinese sentiment was being fomented in Japan by some very powerful & influencial Japanese. Whenever a government - &/or its 'Deep-State' - starts to get its countrymen geared up for war it will use its influence via associated influencers to begin demonizing the targeted people (so that suddenly it seems as if everything associated with the target-country is bad - while conversely everything about the war-prepping country is just 'the cat's meow'). Takamatsu certainly made a joke out of his various lineages; & it appears that he had some martial-arts training & very likely some exposure to multiple arts invluding some Chinese martial-arts.* And note that he had practiced - & loved - Karate.** In Japan's 'Politically Correct' climate, Takamatsu would be pressured to make changes to the Chinese arts & somehow link them to Japanese tradition while downplaying the Chinese connection. * = One story I heard/read was of some Chinese general who - fleeing for his life &/or shipwrecked - was rescued by folk from Iga; & in gratitude he taught them his 'ancient' Chinese martial-art. I find it interesting that the Way of Movement for Takamatsu's Tai-Jitsu is expressed in terms of 5 Elements: Earth, Water, Fire, Wind, & Void (Space/Skies) - & the movements of the Chinese martial-art, Xing Yi Quan (Hsing-I) are also expressed as 5-Elements: Earth, Water, Fire, Wood, & Metal. They're quite similar, but there's just enough changes to make it appear quite different at first glance. I also find that the Postures/Attitudes (Kamae's) of Takamatsu's art & his way of fighting while walking are quite similar to Chinese Baguazhang (Pa-Kua). Also note that some Xing Yi Quan schools also started teaching the rudiments of Baguazhang's Circle-Walking Practice (emphasis on walking); & some Xing Yi Quan & Baguazhang schools are very big on Standing-Practice (akin to standing in Kamae's for training purposes). The aforementioned Chinese martial-arts are northern Chinese arts; & Takamatsu might have spied for the Japanese armed forces which eventually invaded these northern land areas of China - if so, then this places Takamatsu in the area where these arts are practiced. IMO it appears that Takamatsu had exposure to Xing Yi Quan & Baguazhang BOOKS (& possibly observed some of these arts) while in China - & he pieced together his own martial art from such, & from other sources such as Judo/Ju-Jitsu & Karate. Then he invented a 'lineage' for his art; & he likely repeated this process with some other arts. ** = Note that during Takamatsu's lifetime, circa early 1900's, the power structure within Japan had already fomented anti-Chinese sentiment while glorifying all things Japanese (as Japanese forces - along with several other non-Chinese armed forces - had recently been dealing with many Chinese who felt that all foreigners & many things foreign to China were inheritantly evil & bad for China & the Chinese people: an attitude that still lingers somewhat). It was in this very same climate that an Okinawan martial-art master was trying to promote his art called 'China-Hand.' The 'China-Hand' master wrote a letter to a Japanese government official to convince him that 'China-Hand' was now purely Okinawan & not Chinese due to changes made over time & that a [watered-down] version ought to be taught to school children in Japan (Okinawa having been invaded & controlled by the Japanese for centuries, the Japanese school official approved of this line of reasoning). The Japanese re-named this Chinese-based Okinawan martial-art of 'China-Hand' calling it 'Empty-Hand' (that is, Karate). Enough for now.
You should start calling yourself Hanzo then, head of house Natori! The video was a nice way to wrap up 10 years of work. I have enjoyed it. Thanks Antony.
This is entirely speculation on my part, but the more I learn about Bujinkan, and the more I pick up from friends and YT crawls on traditional Chinese martial arts, the more I start to believe that Takamatsu took a lot of things from Chinese masters when he was traveling the country. Tweaking a lineage of existing schools to make yourself the grandmaster sounds exactly like the kind of thing a Chinese sifu looking to settle down and make a name for himself might do. In my view, that doesn't take away from the art or techniques themselves, just adds another layer to it.
Thats exactly how styles are created, tweaking here, adding there; making a new style. What's the sense of training a bunch of knuckle heads to gather intelligence and sneak into an enemy camp when they can't fight. You may decide to teach these night raiders to fight with a few weapons and an empty hand techniques to help them return from that mission. A bunch of idiots sneaking into an enemy camp that can't do damage is a liability. Why wouldn't the guy integrate the 9 schools he's learned in into a greater system? I think lying about your lineage is crap but I think I get why Ninjitsu now has hand to hand in it. Running, signaling, swimming, etc were all considered martial arts but not per se fighting styles as is Ninjitsu. To make Ninjitsu a successful system you would either have to only teach qualified fighters from other schools or teach them how to fight yourself. Imagine going to a special forces school in the military but skipping the shooting and weapons. Now you got a bunch of guys that can pop up anywhere and not fight? Sounds irrational to me.
@@secondstarllc many claim such a thing. It was surmised for a long time that monks taught locals to defend themselves when they moved from China creating ninjitsu. So maybe
You have to rember China had influence on japan other asian countrys. Takamatsu was also the bodyguard for the last emperor of China. you had to be a badass to even be that close to someone of that status and stature.
Thank you for this video. I tried having an open discussion on this topic with other Bujinkan practitioners several times and it always circles back to "Of course you can't find evidence. It's Ninjutsu. Its secret.". But oh well. I'll practice Bujinkan for fun when the pandemic is over, at least 6 of the 9 lineages seem to be authentic as Samurai schools. That's more Ryus than anyone would need in a lifetime, lol.
They're in denial that they made a commitment without first researching the authenticity, martial arts after you learn the body mechanics and skills are all about authentic feeling and ones ability to face the truth. You can do better bro! Join an authentic karate/JSA lineage and read Anthony's books, you'll be 10× the shinobi any bujinkan karateka will ever admit :)
Of course they will never seriously discuss the subject or assume the truth, their degrees and danes and martial tourism will become like the pyramids of Egypt, pure sand.
@@kumashinobi8447 People get furious if you question the legitimacy. I can understand, though. I'm a medical researcher myself and still fell for the nonsense without fact checking from the beginning. Granted it was a lot harder to check stuff 15 years ago.
I used to be in the bujinkan when I was in highschool, honestly looking back on it I don't know what to think, Hatsumi just keeps getting weirder though lol.
Hi Anthony surely this question or comment was already asked but there we go: do you have any interpretation or opinion on the work of Sean Askew on the subject? I don't want to create a historians' war or fanboy on a topic in fact I find your research work quite important being an active member of the Bujinkan. On the other hand another question that comes to me when watching this video is no school of the Bujinkan have any contact with any samurai/ninja family?
So where did the actual hand-to-hand and weapons combat techniques come from? I'm trying to figure out where he pulled that information from. For example, a lot supposedly traditional Japanese jiu jitsu in the United States is actually a direct derivative of Judo. Some styles took the newaza and nage but left off the randori. Other styles focus solely on the goshin-jitsu kata and created a whole style around that. Where did the non espionage related arts come from in this system?
Think a good example of what you're talking about in the beginning is seen in the documentary Patterns of Evidence. Essentially, both the church and mainstream archeology are saying that the Israelites were in the Ramses 2 era of the Egyptians, which of course makes a point of contention between archeologists and the church... But then there's evidence of Semitic slaves prior a few hundred years to Ramses 2, and in fact, there's an obelisk from the time of Ramses 2 that basically stated a trade agreement between Israel and Egypt (if I remember correctly. Something along those lines. Been years) meaning Israel was already a powerful nation by Ramses.
I wonder how much was more takamatsu was inspired by a comic... and Hatsumi went beyond inspiration. For example, if a marvel fan and martial artist wanted to make a real way of the spider (Spider-Man martial art in the comics he developed) you could use that as an inspiration for the principles, but then take hojojutsu and jujitsu for the practical skills. I know historically this happened a lot with tengu. If a person was honest about the inspiration and said they were inspired by Spider-Man in principle, and they made hojojutsu combined with jujitsu work, and if either they or a student of theirs was good at it in practice, I'd actually be willing to learn from them. Humans use myth especially around warriors for principles for centuries. The native American tribes still teach combat through dance and myths. And the Techniques work. I myself am inspired by star wars as a martial artist. The jedi got me into swordsmanship, and form 5 is very much kenjutsu/longsword. Form 7 I'd probably say is more greatsword/nodachi type weapons. There are good lessons in it for a swordsman. I mean all a lightsaber is is a light up shinai or escrima stick that makes sounds in reality 😂 Watch your wrists! I don't know. I just remember reading some of the old books and seeing Takamatsu and seeing clear signs of hard training, definitely similar to iron body training found in shoalin and karate, with Takamatsu, and seeing the old hard videos of him and Hatsumi, then 80s role around and its starting to get too soft... I know something similar happened with aikido. Modern aikido is nothing like Ushieba senseis. Even in his later years. There definitely seems to be a point in the 50s or so where hard, very dangerous martial arts somehow got soft to the point of useless flowery crap in Japan. Then us Americans made it worse after the 2000s (sorry guys.)
Question for you then.. what do you make of the stories about Takamatsu? I had never really paid attention much to them but after reading some of them I am sitting here thinking... sounds a lot like mythology to me. Has anyone ever verified any accounts of his skill?
Hatsumi Soke has said this on many occasions, it’s because Takamatsu Sensei changed the names of the Toda family members in the lineage to protect them. After all an ultra-secret organization of agents and spies is a serious thing. Hatsumi Soke has even stated this in an interview in a Japanese magazine before, So, to expect to find the names listed in the given history would produce no results. They are not names of actual people in history. In Takamatsu Sensei’s stories, the man he is calling his maternal-grandfather, Toda Shinryuken Masamitsu, is most definitely Toda Hisajiro. The events in his life, the inter-relationship of his direct family members with the Kuki clan, the Hattori clan and the Matsudaira (Tokugawa) clan through adoptions and marriages, the family’s rule at Matsumoto castle with Mt. Togakushi nearby, and his role as sword instructor at the starting years of the Kobusho military academy all match up perfectly, like pieces in a puzzle that fall precisely into place. Even the tradition of falconry he represented, the Suwa-Ryū, was centralized at the Grand Shrine of Suwa and nearby Togakushi village. It is still practiced by a few dedicated individuals in Togakushi village to this day.
And what is the reason are not another document in paralel of this to support the data??....a professor in Mie University and other researchers not found nothing in state documents or in Togakushi Region...is weird, and the thing about the actual documents of Hatsumi are make by him, because the Takamatsu burn is rare too...
@@cristian.crixus ‘The Chronicles of the Fujibayashi Family’. In this document it states that Fujibayashi Nagato no Kami taught the military strategist Yamamoto Kansuke ninjutsu and ninja fire-arts including gunnery, smoke signals, fireworks, fire arrows etc. Unfortunately, it does not specifically state in the document that Fujibayashi taught him ‘Togakure Ryū’ ninjutsu. Rather, it only says he taught Yamamoto ninjutsu -- Togakure Ryū is inferred by Japanese historians because Fujibayashi Nagato no Kami’s clan were warriors from Togakushi mountain and because of the clan’s close association with the ‘kami’ of Togakushi Shrine. The family fled to Iga from Togakushi when they lost a battle to the Hojo clan in 1213 CE. It is important to note that there is no other ninjutsu ryū from Togakure mountain. So, by default the researchers consider this lineage to be Togakure Ryū. It is known from marriage and divorce records that Hisajiro’s father, Toda Gosuke (戸田五介), was involved with the oniwaban spy and investigative network formed from the ninja families of Iga. Another interesting point is that both Gosuke and Hisajiro held the official positions of falconer to the Shogun. Interesting because falconry is known to be one of the major careers that shinobi and onmitsu in the service of the Tokugawa government would use to disguise themselves during their missions. Their falcons would often hunt and kill the carrier pigeons of rebellious and disloyal lords. Even during the Edo period, it was still common for ninja to go in and out of the residences of takasho.
@@cristian.crixus In the 2017 guide book for the town of Ayama in Iga, it states that Nagato no Kami was a master of Togakure Ryū Ninjutsu and he specialized in the arts of fire, explosives, smoke techniques and fires.
So if “the names were changed to protect the innocent”, what is the purpose of a list of soke in the first place? And protect them how? Protect them from what? Something in the afterlife? This makes no sense. There always seems to be a reason or excuse when real proof of these lineage claims is asked for. Either a fire burned the original scrolls, or the names were changed to comic book characters to “protect them”. If it is so secret that they needed protection, why talk about any of this in the first place? Perhaps to make money and to continue to try corner the market on the subject? Hatsumi is an actor that is cosplaying in real life his characters from His acting roles and media appearances. And you all can not admit that there is no proof of anything outside of the “samurai jujitsu” ryu. It was all fun and games to the Japanese media when the practitioners were limited to a handful of Japanese practitioners, but after SKH appeared, it was unleashed on the outside world. This was a chance at big money. Hatsumi found himself in.The very role he inherited, and had to continue to play the part as his teacher had before him. Admitting the truth would mean also admitting that Takamatsu had created this story after being banished from Kuki Shin Ryu. Hatsumi was not about to do that. Cult leaders often can not be questioned.
You might want to pin this video on your channel's front page. My biggest issue with the art is it would require a peer review to measure its effectiveness. Because it would be a great irony that though they can't trace their history with accuracy that what they teach actually works
Once again, can I get one of the Shinobi Soldiers to help me out? Takamatsu claimed to be the inheritor of 9 martial arts systems, 6 samurai and 3 ninja. I know the Ninja systems aren’t historical. What about the samurai arts? I thought I saw a video interview w/ Antony where he said they were. So, were his samurai arts genuine? Thank you. 🥷
I have a couple of questions: 1. Is it only the 3 "ninjutsu" schools that are fabricated, or are the other schools of koppojutsu, kosshijutsu etc also fabricated? 2. Whats the name of the comic book character, and do i understand you to be saying that he is listed in the togakure ryu lineage?
@@AntonyCummins how do you spell the name? I want to look up the lineage and find it so that when I say these things to my bukinkan friends I can pull this out and show it to them.
No one can ask for a proof but can ask a question like what you didn't like about tekamatsu bujikan whether it was ethically teaching were not right as per traditional methods, may be some of the teaching were not contexted as per script in ninja scrolls or may be completely fake. But asking preposterous question like proof for that do research as u did can really answer the question.
I've never been in the bujinkan, but I am in the Genbukan, and there is no claim from soke tanemura that ninpo taijutsu is a ko ryu. It is a mixture of all the ryuha within the Genbukan. We do start training in the different schools once you get shodan in the Genbukan. For instance you can get menkyo in each ryuha. Like you can test for shoden menkyo in takagi yoshin ryu, or asayama ichiden ryu, koto ryu, or even togakure ryu. Is togakure ryu a traditional school, or made up by takamatsu? Don't know, and don't care. Tanemura soke is a great martial artist that is still learning different styles.
If you enjoy it, more power to you. I think it’s pretty easy to conclude from the last 40 years of information dissemination on this art that the ninja lineages are not authentic. Takamatsuden is a collection of traditional Japanese martial arts. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Antony of the 9 schools in the bujinkan/takamatsu den, excluding the 3 Shinobi schools, do those 6 have a lineage that can be traced/confirmed they existed? And if so which of those 6 are legitimate / real?. Shinobi Ryu just seems to be plain spy craft blended in w some real black magic.
@@SEN-oz1hq Just wanted to let you know that Antony doesn't receive notifications for replies to his replies, he only receives notifications for new comments so he didn't see your follow up comment and was unable to respond ok!
"I was the one who said this". Uh no you weren't Antony; you came along after many actual historians and koryu practitioners had, and repeated it. Dr Hall's Encyclopedia is in no way a translation of the Bugei Ryuha Daijiten. You'd know this if you could read it.
As far as I recall, the only formal training he did was in bujinkan, until he started studying ninja history, then he just practiced whatever he thought was practical iirc. Could be wrong tho!
Nani!!?? This is sad news for me to hear especially after training in the buge for so long- Can someone one tell me if there is evidence that Takamatsu was the Chinese emperor's bodyguard??
Maybe yes, maybe not, who knows. We are talking about japanese martial arts knowledge that are supposed to be "secrets", so we can not expect to find out info about it in internet or even each library as a " worldwide public information". But, answering your question, it is told that one of this bujinkan "ryu", Gyokko ryu Kosshijutsu, has most of its foundation from Baji Quan, a chinese martial art from Ming Dinasty era, mastered by Emperor's bodyguard elite group
Hello Antony thank you for making another video about it. This was really very detailed and well done. As I said, I was also in the Bujinkan for almost 30 years. But I'd rather be interested in historically proven and that's the Natori ryu just the right yes thanks for your great work. 👍😁
It's off Topic,but as a Lakota Man I ask You to please cover the Connection between the Lakota and Japanese Warriors and how deep or shallow it actually is.
I think the connection between american first nation people and se asian people really predates the subject although historical similarities may seem evident especially the ainu etc
@@MultiJimbo1970 native Americans split off during the stone age and ice age, where other than basic forms of religion and pastimes with cave painting, culture didn't really exist. Besides, the people who migrated were different than the current day Lakota. Genetic change happened, as it did with the Ainu, who got stuck in Japan, and maybe a tiny sliver of Siberia. Samurais are a feudal concept of Japan with Chinese and Indian influence. Literally out of all the 3, prehistoric Indians are the closest to their modern day counterpart, though mainly South Indians, as the rest of India had different ethnic groups migrated and merge with the original Indians (this may sound a little biased, as I am South Indian, but I feel like I can answer for South India more than the rest of India, and certainly not China). India was one of the first places to independently develop farming, but you had to wait a couple thousands years before the Indus Valley Civilization, and it was only 3,500 years ago when South India started to coalesce into urban civilization and out of the neolithic, and we have Polynesians to thank for that, as they visited us and Sri Lanka and introduced plants and giant boats and other stuff, which made South India into a more functional society, a couple centuries before the Indo-Aryans noticed us, and a couple centuries after the last of the few Indus Valley Civilization strongholds in the South had stopped functioning. Unfortunately for the Indigenous people of the Americas, they never got help from others, as the only contact with the rest of the world they had were some Indigenous people from the tip of Siberia and the Asian part of the Aleutian Islands, and some stray Polynesians who lived on some distant islands far from the rest of the Polynesians, and the closest people to them were the Native South Americans who lived on some other islands which were distant from the rest of South America. Going back to my culture statement, more advanced culture occured when people discovered farming, which gave more free time to think. Native Americans discovered it on their own, so their culture is unique. For the nomadic ones, they were either Pastoral Nomads, or they were better at controlling the herds of animals than their ancestors and could preserve surpluses, so they also developed culture. A much better comparison would be the Lakota and the Central American civilizations. While they were definitely different, these civilizations were the only major ones in the continent (Native American civilizations were major too, but they changed and shifted a lot, so each individual civilization played a part in the grand scheme of things, but other than Cahokia and other mounds made by different tribes like the Hopi, not much could rival the Central Americans, though saying that they only impacted the area when Europeans arrived is just plain false. Also, due the imperialistic attitude of early America, not much was done in the field of archaeology to change the false image of Native Americans still being in the stone age when they arrived. Central America was able to build some of the greatest civilizations known to man due to geographic luck, which also explains why some Native North American cultures had farming and had built big structures, while others did not). From what I read, apparently many tribes and groups of Native Americans heard of these civilizations, and emigrated to them. The main difference in culture was probably that while many Native Americans treated their tribes as their nation-state, though there certainly were confederacies and the acceptance of other tribe members, people like the Aztecs and Mayans had their states structured more like the Old World concept of states, where the state has a little more to do with land, and a little less to do with the ethnicity of the citizens.
With all due respect, if you wrote a book about this information in a concise, organized manner, it actually might be a positive thing to warn people of being taken in by this cult. Also you say you need the cash? A book specifically on Buj/Takamatsu/Hatsumi would likely be your best seller to date. What is negative is their continued exploitation of people and them trying to corner the market on the subject. If you don’t want to write it, someone should.
And by the way. What is your view on Christa Jacobsen today? I think I heard in one of your videos that you have some form of contact? That she is one of the people that you have had a friendly conversation with on this topic. I know that you are saying constantly that you're done with the takamatsu den. But what if some history or evidence of their claims actually surfaces one day. Wouldn't you listen even then?
@@AntonyCummins I know that it is. You didn't really answer the question though. If there were to surface som real historical evidence that shows that Takamatsu actually has real historical proof, be it scrolls or other sources, would you be interested in those sources, or would you ignore it? Im asking as it comes across that nowadays you are just automatically biased against the Bujinkan just because. The majority of the people interested in ninjutsu and historical japanese warfare etc are members of, or at least knowledgable of the bujinkan. And if you wanna sell your books to a wider audience, I don't think just giving the long finger the those people will help your cause. That's why Im asking. If you would try to assimilate yourself more to the ninjutsu people regardless if they're bujinkan or not, I think your audience would grow. But now you're just done with them you say. I like your books and the scrolls you collect, but I can understand some people's frustration with being called frauds for just asking questions.
Her stance and sermon hasn't changed, so I couldn't imagine Anthony's opinion to have. To sum up iirc She's a nice enough person who doesn't necessarily "lie" about her lineage, but she does just teach ninja flavored karate, which is of course not as effective as "unflavored" traditional karate, invented with a purpose other than to market a comic book legend (comic book legend beung ninja black belts 🤫)
HELLO TO ALL SAMURAI AND NINJA ENTHUSIASTS!!! ON BEHALF OF ANTONY CUMMINS I WOULD LIKE TO INFORM YOU THAT HE DOESN'T RECEIVE NOTIFICATIONS FOR REPLIES TO HIS REPLIES. HE ONLY RECEIVES NOTIFICATIONS FOR NEW COMMENTS. IF YOU ARE NEW TO THE CHANNEL ANTONY WOULD LIKE YOU TO START BY WATCHING HIS 2020 DOCUMENTARY.
Sasuke Sarutobi. He was not in the lineages but into the brief description in old times, they said Sasuke was trained by Hakuunsai Tozawa in Gyokko Ryu. Actually they deleted this info because it is clear sasuke cames from a Manga.
@@kumashinobi8447 I have been looking for this! Thanks for saying. Can you tell where this brief description was found and where we can find it now? This seems to be the main thing hinging on the whole argument, would be great to know these exact deets!
@@ZakCiotti I read it for the first time in an interview of the Budo magazine of Spain with a Shihan of the Bujinkan (P. Fleitas), it was widely disseminated by the Shidoshi Peter Carlsson in the magazine Ura & Omote in 90s and published in the book "Introduction to the History of the Bujinkan Schools " by the Shidoshi Paul Richardson, chapter about Kumogakure Ryu (not Gyokko Ryu, my memory mistake), page 75.
@@kumashinobi8447 I thought it actually came from Takamatsu or Hatsumi themselves, which would have really supported the argument. This is helpful to know what the argument is really based on, though! Thanks for sharing.
Sir - thank you for posting your video - I watched it from beginning to end. I also own two of your books. I am concerned by your absolute statements of 'its fake' and 'it doesn't exist', yet you rely only on one piece of documentary evidence to support the proposition. The Bugei Ryuha Daijiten itself is an unevidenced document based solely on heresay, viewed through the lens of those gentlemen who wrote it. I am concerned that your propositions are no more or less evidenced than those that support the Bujinkan and Takamatsuden, yet you purport your truth to be an absolute truth. You also state that there are many 'points' that don't align to known history yet you only name one, and repeat that same point over and over again. You say you were told the Bujinkan taught one thing, and then you were told that it taught another - who told you this? What was the date? Do you have documentary evidence of this conversation or is it more heresay? It seems you have fallen victim to the same embellishments that Takamatsu is accused of. Can I put the proposition to you, that if you were the head of a secret society, would you advertise that fact? Would you write it down in enough forms so that some articles would survive hundreds of years? Of course the answer is no. If some historians visited you and asked you to describe your lineage or view your supporting documents, would you tell the truth? Of course not. The truth is that we will never know one way or the other, and in a very Japanese way, the truth is hidden in the metaphors - perhaps you could focus your conclusions on this truth.
@@AntonyCummins Respectfully, I think you may have missed the point of my post also, its a reach to declare one way or the other without the corresponding quality or quantity of evidence to support the argument, but that's ok I respect your wish to move on from a question that I suspect will plague us all for a long time. Please keep writing and exploring - it is only through questioning that we will make discoveries.
@@islanddave9575 He's selling a product, so of course he's going to try his best to make his argument sound concrete, even if it is riddled with invalid logic. I'm glad you touched on the point of secrecy. I've made this point before that koryu bujutsu have always been secret styles. He conveniently ignores this fact for the benefit of his argument. There are historical records in the scrolls. Information that is not shown to two random guys who walk into your dojo and say they're making a book about martial arts. These supposed "ninja scholars" are clowns. I've apparently found more historical documents than they have just casually browsing the internet occasionally. I found ties with Miyamoto Musashi and the Toda family among many other intriguing facts in the historical records. All these families that the Bujinkan mentions in the kuden and densho appear a lot in japanese history and since they were at the peak of the drama during this timeframe these families are all tied together in many events of feudal history. I tell this guy to learn a 500 year old bujutsu. Listen to the kuden and talk to your soke about this ancient history, then with that knowledge do your research properly.
I am a bujinkan student. The teachers in my dojo (non profit organisation) never claimed to me or told me that taijutsu means hand to hand combat. Never. I personally consider the taijutsu as a art of body movement, focused on armed and armoured combat particularly for extended periods of time fighting multiple opponents in groups or defending and quickly escaping from raids. I see the taijutsu as a platfform for weapons training based on a battlefield situatuion. I mainly use the taijutsu for more ergonomical and energy effective movement in my daily life. Historical or not: If i ever had thought about bujinkan taijutsu as ninja hand to hand combat, i would feel very stupid in the meantime. It seems like many people are somewhat misleaded (maybe including myself). Proof me wrong xD
Historical or not, it was invented in the late 1950's by a japanese/american immigrant looking to make a name for himself, clearly not to "pReServe an aRt, since it doesn't even represent karate well at all. during a time before internet and ease of research. Let yourself advance and grow with the times bro That "historical martial art" Bujinkan is based on is Karate and Judo. Which are only just over a century old themselves. "Karate belts" and formal ranking were invented by judo-ka a couple of short decades before karate was invented and named "kara-te", and almost a century before Bujinkan was invented. Anyone who holds a "Dan rank" or "black belt" is practicing a descendant art of Karate. In the case of Bujinkan, it's newer than Taekwondo which was invented and named in 1955. The forms in bujinkan are inspired by karate forms, which themselves are inspired by Chinese whooping crane. Instead of trying to fix something that was invented with intention to lie, deceive and profit, let's just practice the purest arts we can with intention to progress. If you want to practice karate and brand it as ninja, then by all means. But there was never and will never be a "Shinobi Black Belt"
@@computron808 - By implication, yes. Claiming "samurai ryuha" in any context is problematic. You claimed "samurai ryuha" in regards to training in the Bujinkan, which by implication means you believe there are "samurai ryuha" as opposed to "non-samurai ryuha"( "ninja ryuha" ) in the Takamatsuden.
I believe the history of the Bujinkan falls somewhere in the middle of coming down from actual Ryu ha and non-historical stuff mixed together. If Takamatsu “invented” everything then he was some kind of genius. He and Hatsumi likely mixed in historical and non-historical ideas to add flavor to the stories. Looking at most martial arts, there is always a point at which the history gets a bit questionable. How many Ryu started with a fantastic dream or the originator learned from a tengu? How far back do you need to go before things get questionable? Who knows? If you demand a koryu art then don’t get involved in something like aikido or judo. If you only want something with a “proven” history there are a few out there with pretty documented, unbroken lineage. If you see a martial art that you like and you are comfortable with the “history” then go ahead and do it. No matter what you practice there will always be folks that demean the art, the teacher, the history or something they don’t agree with. Hell, there are people out there that hate my brand of whiskey and say it wasn’t distilled the right way. I just smile and raise my glass to those that have nothing better in their lives than to try to destroy what others enjoy. Listen to what others have to say. Then, do your own investigation.
Thank You. I agree with this. There is no way that what Takamatsu lived by and Hatsumi teach and live by is just BS to throw away. The aspects of “Bujikan” and schools like Togakure Ryu take an aspect of what is in those scrolls and applies it to, a modern way. He even says it, things like ninjutsu must adapt and change to what’s going on today. Even in Cummins books, the samurai way must be adapted for times of War and “Normal” times. Just because an adaption and utilization of a hand to hand combat that encompasses the mindset of shinobi. I won’t rule it out. I can’t set it down. It’s the best a logical way of applying some kind of combat adaption from that espionage/spy combat moment. Just my opinion. Appreciating that someone still sees Bujikan as an art. Maybe not “correct” in time line. But a damn good view of what their combat could have been. A fighting style nonetheless.
In this information age of greater transparency, it would be advisable for Hatsumi's Bujinkan to drop the ninja claim. I wish Takamatsu hadn't lied, because I suspect they are practicing SOME sort of martial art and it's a historical loss to not know its origins. It's like a book that someone removed the author's name.
Every martial art in the world is made up? All of it. The bottom line is some arts have been battle tested in wars and proven to work. Which is why tradition is still valued/honored. Videos like this are splitting hairs on the tiniest of details.
That "historical martial art" Bujinkan is based on is Karate and Judo. Which are only just over a century old themselves. "Karate belts" and formal ranking were invented by judo-ka a couple of short decades before karate was invented and named "kara-te", and almost a century before Bujinkan was invented. Anyone who holds a "Dan rank" or "black belt" is practicing a descendant art of Karate. In the case of Bujinkan, it's newer than Taekwondo which was invented and named in 1955. The forms in bujinkan are inspired by karate forms, which themselves are inspired by Chinese whooping crane. Instead of trying to fix something that was invented with intention to lie, deceive and profit, let's just practice the purest arts we can with intention to progress. If you want to practice karate and brand it as ninja, then by all means. But there was never and will never be a "Shinobi Black Belt"
@@getawaydreamer2724 Exactly, every martial art was made up at some point in history, but only some of them were invented during and for effective use in a time of war. When and why was Bujinkan invented again? Oh yeah, Bujinkan was invented in the fifties by a japanese/american immigrant who's a black belt in karate, looking to make a name for himself. Was it tested in war? No. Was it tested on other martial artists? No, "Our S3CrEtS aRe tOo DeaDlY to use against others."
good stuff bro that why i took some stuff see if work in these time and does cho ho jutsu Kayaku-Jutsu (Fire and Explosives) Henso-Jutsu (Disguise and Impersonation) Shinobi-Iri (Stealth and Entering Methods) Inton-Jutsu (Escape and Concealment) fire training kenjutsu and survival i still study Togakure ryu ninjutsu and ninpo all part to scroll is read topic
Today this "Ninja" story continue, Kacem Zoughari make recently a new book about the NINJUTSU of Takamatsu, with old interviews, etc...I only see a promotion of this book; for researchers, and the Mie University, the "ninjutsu" of Takamatusu begins with him... I believe he know Kukishinden Ryu, and all the "ninja stuff" if added for Hatsumi and his study witn Yumio Nawa sensei in Masaki Ryu, nobody talk about this.
@@kumashinobi8447 Hay programas donde puedes hacerle subtítulos; la cosa es que ¿de qué sirve?, en centro y latinoamerica la gente practicante de Bujinkan, Genbukan y Jinenka es mucho más cerrada de mente que lo habitual...todos buscan SER NINJAS...
@@cristian.crixus no por mi, yo lo entiendo, sino para que llegue a la masa, esas organizaciones se han atomizado, ya solo es cuestion de tiempo. Nadie les cree, saludos
With respect, Mr Antony Cummings you can make so called historical claims on Ninjutsu in general and its use in Samaurai culture but your work doesn't take into account Kuden. I dont believe you have researched the specific families to the extent others have. For anyone interested in the in depth research and historical significance of the Takamatus Den and the Bujinkan Dojo Leniage. I recommend SHAWN ASKEW , as I believe he has done a more in depth research on this lineage specifically for it's own sake as opposed to selling books and making money.
I agree with you at most. Most Ninjutsu teachings and stated history is no more than crap and kabuki based tales. However, while tearing down the fake history of Shinobi, can you explain what is the truth of the ninja and is there still any real schools of authentic training that you know of. As for scrolls and written records, you mention 2, you did not mention Ninpiden. What are your thoughts on this?
"Dr. Hatsumi was asked many years ago to provide documentation of some of his lineage for admittance to the Kobudo Shinkokai, perhaps the most reliable of the major organizations of traditional Japanese martial arts, and according to Donn Draeger, in a conversation to me, he was not able to provide documentation which proved his lineage to their satisfaction. Thus, there are uncertain areas in Dr. Hatsumi's lineage."
What? There are special circumstances for sure, but Soke Hatsumi is the inheritor of takamatsus art documentation or not like most ninja techniques were passed down through training and not written scrolls
Hatsumi has made a packet off his bullshido. There is too much money invested in the maintenance of the ninja legend, by lots of people including all the Hatsumi disciples. Black belt magazine and the 1980’s boom made the monetisation of the ninja myths inevitable. The stories are so good, everyone wants them to be real. I would like them to be real. Takamatsu probably liked telling stories, and Hatsumi just marketed his tall tales very well. A good PR man with a knowledge of Jiu Jitsu that he could add a few twists too.
I have thought about this alot for some time after I quit the Bujinkan. Now I have started again and this is the reason: I don't think that Takamatsu and Hatsumi has made it all up just to squeeze money out of people. I think that the point of the Bujinkan is a mindset of combat. I think that they have knowledge, being it scrolls, koryu, or other sources, of techniques and such that were performed in older times. It doens't mean though that those techniqes were special to the Shinobi no mono, and when I say Shinobi no mono, I mean those soldiers, being special forces in the army, or hired people carrying out shinobi missions, such as spying or sabotage etc. It could be that Takamatsu and Hatsumi view certain ancient koryu/combat techniques as techniques of the shinobi/ninja, becuase they are clandestine, or made to fool or disorientate their victim. That it is a broad mindset of combat. So even if there are no scrolls or documents saying that ancient shinobi were using special hand-to-hand techniques, they (takamatsu and hatsumi) created a modern style based on various combat techniques from those ancient times, even if they weren't, at that time, connected to the ninja in the war machine. Because some of the techniques, like Metsubushi (blinding powder) actually did exist. They were used by police for example in criminal capture. And the names described in bujinkan "history" did exist. Some of them either way. Though if they are connected in the way that bujinkan claims, that is up to question. However, there are points in the history described by the bujinkan that is true. Or true enough as it is very difficult to be certain of anything as ancient times are so far away from modern times. So that is my theory, because I haven't heard hatsumi say specific, that ancient shinobi no mono, those special forces in the sengoku jidai war machine, did unquestionably use those specifik Togakure ryu hand-to-hand techinques.
Your comment has hit home with me the most. I think videos like these all they do is make people quit doing the thing they love doing the most. None of us are going to become "Ninja's" or go on missions. However this is a fun art, helps your body fight back aging, Help you live longer. The moment you stop any martial art, You start to age and die slowly. Lots of scrolls in Japan were destroyed due to WW2. Unless time travel is ever realized, Then we have no choice but to learn what there is to learn. The fact of the matter is that the US Marines use elements of Bujikan in their combat system to help soldiers survive a fight in the battlefied. If this crap didn't work, It wouldn't be in the USMC Martial arts program. This art has merit to it.
That "historical martial art" Bujinkan is based on is Karate and Judo. Which are only just over a century old themselves (karate was invented in 1890 iirc, aka 400+ years after shinobi and samurai were abolished). "Karate belts" and formal ranking were invented by judo-ka a couple of short decades before karate was invented and named "kara-te", almost a century before Bujinkan was invented (late 1950's in America). Anyone who holds a "Dan rank" or "black belt" is practicing a descendant art of Karate. In the case of Bujinkan, it's newer than Taekwondo which was invented and named in 1955. The forms in bujinkan are inspired by, but not based on karate forms, which themselves are inspired by Chinese whooping crane. Instead of trying to fix something that was invented with intention to lie, deceive and profit, let's just practice the purest arts we can with intention to progress. If you want to practice karate and brand it as ninja, then by all means. But there was never and will never be a "Shinobi Black Belt"
Now, if you want to make your channel relevant again, it might be time for someone like you to take a look at Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. You could start off by just looking at the name to start with - how Jiu means absolutely nothing and Jitsu doesn't mean art! It's a real rabbit hole like Ninjutsu.
"the ignorance is so dare". Jiu jitsu is the way that brazilian write "ju jutsu" down, because it is the way that sounds or is pronounced. Bjj has its roots from judo and japanese traditional jujutsu, due to its creator was taught by a japanese kodokan judo master
Umm, I read the comments 1st and was a bit sad until I hear this guy talk. You people are letting this guy discredit takamatsu and masaki Hatsumi. It seems insured. Who the hell is this guy? He even called him self a Soke of some samurai art only he knows. I have no do that some schools fell into anonymity. They lost there vigor, for some reason people want to learn a war art without any aggression, diluted then wonder why it looks different. Crazy
It’s a huge fallacy to prove that something isn’t proven isn’t real! It’s like when people say prove that magic isn’t real when they need to prove it is in fact real in the first place.
Support Antony by buying his books:
The Book of Samurai: Book One: The Fundamental Teachings
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True Path of the Ninja: The Definitive Translation of the Shoninki (An Authentic Ninja Training Manual)
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Ninja Skills: The Authentic Ninja Training Manual
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Modern Ninja Warfare: Ninja Tactics for the Modern Warrior
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The Book of Ninja: The Bansenshukai - Japan's Premier Ninja Manual
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The Ultimate Art of War: A Step-by-Step Illustrated Guide to Sun Tzu's Teachings
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The Secret Traditions of the Shinobi: Hattori Hanzo's Shinobi Hiden and Other Ninja Scrolls
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Iga and Koka Ninja Skills: The Secret Shinobi Scrolls of Chikamatsu Shigenori
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Samurai Arms, Armour & the Tactics of Warfare: The Collected Scrolls of Natori-Ryu (Book of Samurai 2)
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The Dark Side of Japan: Ancient Black Magic, Folklore, Ritual
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Old Japan: Secrets from the Shores of the Samurai
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In Search of the Ninja: The Historical Truth of Ninjutsu
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The Lost Samurai School: Secrets of Mubyoshi Ryu
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How To Be a Modern Samurai: 10 Steps To Finding Your Power & Achieving Success
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The Lost Warfare of India: An Illustrated Guide
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Samurai War Stories: Teachings and Tales of Samurai Warfare
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The Ultimate Guide to Yin Yang
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Why don't you explain to your viewers why you was kicked out? And not how you explain it you left.
@@leonbrown4344 I heard he was questioning their authenticity too much and they didn't like it/felt comfortable so...
I studied Bujinkan and it is an effective art that does have and is made of traditional Japanese M.A. . However that doesn't make it Ninjitsu from history. I truly believe Anthony is right 100%. I am not taking anything away from Bujinkan, I still practice those techniques. I don't refer to it as Ninjitsu . Ninjitsu is guerilla warfare used in 15th and 16th century. I am sure that the techniques are loosely very similar but as Anthony says there is no direct lineage. That doesn't mean Bujinkan is totally fake it just means that it's not what most people think it is and it doesn't mean it's useless. 💖🇦🇺
Sean Askew has already proved Takamatsu's grandfather was Oniwaban in the Tokyo National Archives. His name was Toda Hisajiro (Shinryuken Masamitsu was a Bugo/warrior name in his densho). Hisajiro was a top falconer to the shogun and a top spy in the Oniwaban, and intermarried with the Hattori's (yes....THOSE Hattori's). He was in the Suwa Ryu falconry school which still exists. The falconer pass for the shogun allowed him to move around the country and through checkpoints. He is also listed as a sword instructor at the Edo Kobusho like Takamatsu said (and yes those records exist too and can be seen). Hatsumi Sensei was just as surpirsed to see the records, as his stories in his densho lined up exactly to what Sean found (and made 100% public).
These are public domain records that can be read online. They have been scanned in and are readable. Marriage records, birth records, death records, positions in the network, etc. Antony can't read Japanese. Other people read it for him. He knows all about this and chooses to ignore it in his videos or treat it as if it doesnt exist. This whole video is a lie because there was an actual spy network in the Edo period comprised of historic Iga families, and Antony keeps trying to jump back to the Sengoku Jiddai thinks that koryu didnt pass through the Edo period at all. There is even proof that ninja continued to be trained in Iga area and then were cycled into this network in Edo and the rest of the country. The majority of scrolls we have about ancient samurai life were written during the Edo period. Again....this is no secret to people who can read Japanese. Antony is a pathological SELECTIVE "historical researcher." This is getting VERY old. Buy Hidden Lineage by Sean Askew....worth the read. Not only was Takamatsu's grandfather skilled in ninjutsu, he was part of the elite group still using it in the late 19th century.
@@mountaineerjdm thank you so much for this read. Iv enrolled in a local dojo witha 15th degree black belt and am really excited to begin.
i think you have the correct outlook...it does n't matter if it actually is a ninjutsu/espionage system ,it is an excellent fighting style and that is what matters...it's a
natural and aggressive way of fighting and it actually emerges and saves your life when needed ,it is an astonishing fighting tradition.i use to study it and will again given the chance .and i will persist that, what i call takamatsu ryu, is a life saver...(note : i had the chance to study a tibetan dragon-eagle style and some bujinkan techniques where practically identical ,it seems that the the bujinkan art has at least some Tibetan kung fu roots... )
They stopped teaching ninjustsu because it attracted all the weirdo
I am still a follower of takamatsu bujinkan. I feel all should follow the bansenshukhai follow what it says to respect the old ways and adapt to modern as Bruce Lee said just like the ancients use what is useful discard what is useless.
Love the painting/lego analogy
It should make it easier to understand
The constant lunge attacks was a major red flag for me.
Yeah totally not realistic at all.
"It's easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled" - Mart Twain .... kinda says it all, dont you think?
Tell me about it. Mark Twain never actually said that.
@@jachyra9 Are you trying to fool me? Haha. Just kidding... I guess I was the one fooled all along! ;) Have a great day!
Indeed, the people who blindly accept what Cummins says are proof of that.
Its a credit to you anthony cummins..thanks you for bringing actual facts to the conversation,i trained in bujinkan myself 20 yrs ago..and i always felt something wasnt right,,now im on a new journey,have purchased all your books 📚 and look forward to many more.thank you for all your hard work and for simply bringing the truth..much appreciated 🙏🙏🙏
You are more than welcome. Keep up to date with me.
I was a Ninjutsu practitioner for 25 years on and off in Australia under Sensei wyane roy. I found out it is not as it seems as did my sensei over time. Masaaki is a money making fraud, and so is the Bujikan. But, can you tell us what is the truth. Some training is legit, however most is not and the training given by these instructors is not practical and generally useless and not practiced at speed nor force.
need more people explaining complicated things in such good example and your accent just makes it perfect :D keep doing the good work wish you luck and prosperity and appreciate your content a lot - thank you very much man !!!
Most of the people who are In denial and been training for 20 years will always say it's real
If it works for the person foes it matter if it's authentic or not?
Well when you train and get hit
Feels real to me lol
😎👍
Thank you for this insight. I'm now dropping the word 'Ninpo' (Ninja/Ninja-Way) from association with the words Tai-Jitsu (Body-Art).
It appears that Takematsu - a Japanese man who is said to have lived in China for quite awhile - did what the Chinese often do when they 'create' a 'new' martial-art style: they respectively atttibute it to a legendary master or a myth/story; & this is why tracing some Chinese martial-art lineages gets difficult/problematic.
Attributing one's own creative work to someone else is quite common in eastern societies. Exactly why, I don't know; but the Chinese in particular - up until the communist take-over - tended to believe that old meant good: thst older was better (the opposite of many westerners way of thinking that newer is better; note: IMO neither way of thinking is absolutely correct in all matters).
Also, please note that during Takamatsu's lifetime there was in Japan an increasing appreciation of things Japanese - even to the point of over-appreciation (which still lingers); also, during this time a specifically anti-Chinese sentiment was being fomented in Japan by some very powerful & influencial Japanese.
Whenever a government - &/or its 'Deep-State' - starts to get its countrymen geared up for war it will use its influence via associated influencers to begin demonizing the targeted people (so that suddenly it seems as if everything associated with the target-country is bad - while conversely everything about the war-prepping country is just 'the cat's meow').
Takamatsu certainly made a joke out of his various lineages; & it appears that he had some martial-arts training & very likely some exposure to multiple arts invluding some Chinese martial-arts.* And note that he had practiced - & loved - Karate.** In Japan's 'Politically Correct' climate, Takamatsu would be pressured to make changes to the Chinese arts & somehow link them to Japanese tradition while downplaying the Chinese connection.
* = One story I heard/read was of some Chinese general who - fleeing for his life &/or shipwrecked - was rescued by folk from Iga; & in gratitude he taught them his 'ancient' Chinese martial-art.
I find it interesting that the Way of Movement for Takamatsu's Tai-Jitsu is expressed in terms of 5 Elements: Earth, Water, Fire, Wind, & Void (Space/Skies) - & the movements of the Chinese martial-art, Xing Yi Quan (Hsing-I) are also expressed as 5-Elements: Earth, Water, Fire, Wood, & Metal. They're quite similar, but there's just enough changes to make it appear quite different at first glance.
I also find that the Postures/Attitudes (Kamae's) of Takamatsu's art & his way of fighting while walking are quite similar to Chinese Baguazhang (Pa-Kua). Also note that some Xing Yi Quan schools also started teaching the rudiments of Baguazhang's Circle-Walking Practice (emphasis on walking); & some Xing Yi Quan & Baguazhang schools are very big on Standing-Practice (akin to standing in Kamae's for training purposes).
The aforementioned Chinese martial-arts are northern Chinese arts; & Takamatsu might have spied for the Japanese armed forces which eventually invaded these northern land areas of China - if so, then this places Takamatsu in the area where these arts are practiced. IMO it appears that Takamatsu had exposure to Xing Yi Quan & Baguazhang BOOKS (& possibly observed some of these arts) while in China - & he pieced together his own martial art from such, & from other sources such as Judo/Ju-Jitsu & Karate. Then he invented a 'lineage' for his art; & he likely repeated this process with some other arts.
** = Note that during Takamatsu's lifetime, circa early 1900's, the power structure within Japan had already fomented anti-Chinese sentiment while glorifying all things Japanese (as Japanese forces - along with several other non-Chinese armed forces - had recently been dealing with many Chinese who felt that all foreigners & many things foreign to China were inheritantly evil & bad for China & the Chinese people: an attitude that still lingers somewhat). It was in this very same climate that an Okinawan martial-art master was trying to promote his art called 'China-Hand.' The 'China-Hand' master wrote a letter to a Japanese government official to convince him that 'China-Hand' was now purely Okinawan & not Chinese due to changes made over time & that a [watered-down] version ought to be taught to school children in Japan (Okinawa having been invaded & controlled by the Japanese for centuries, the Japanese school official approved of this line of reasoning). The Japanese re-named this Chinese-based Okinawan martial-art of 'China-Hand' calling it 'Empty-Hand' (that is, Karate).
Enough for now.
Pretty straight forward to me. Thank you.
This is why I love studying history and ninjutsu in particular, it teaches you how to find the truth in a sea of lies.
Maybe, shinobi no jutsu really teach you how you can use a lie for know something...
@@cristian.crixus what? Not to be mean but what you've written was barely English
Ommanipadmehum ninpo tengu thank you for my enlightenment
Shakti my mother
You should start calling yourself Hanzo then, head of house Natori! The video was a nice way to wrap up 10 years of work. I have enjoyed it. Thanks Antony.
Awesome way of describing how history is revealed.
You don't need a video, sir. It's fake I will say it for you
This is entirely speculation on my part, but the more I learn about Bujinkan, and the more I pick up from friends and YT crawls on traditional Chinese martial arts, the more I start to believe that Takamatsu took a lot of things from Chinese masters when he was traveling the country. Tweaking a lineage of existing schools to make yourself the grandmaster sounds exactly like the kind of thing a Chinese sifu looking to settle down and make a name for himself might do.
In my view, that doesn't take away from the art or techniques themselves, just adds another layer to it.
Thats exactly how styles are created, tweaking here, adding there; making a new style. What's the sense of training a bunch of knuckle heads to gather intelligence and sneak into an enemy camp when they can't fight. You may decide to teach these night raiders to fight with a few weapons and an empty hand techniques to help them return from that mission. A bunch of idiots sneaking into an enemy camp that can't do damage is a liability. Why wouldn't the guy integrate the 9 schools he's learned in into a greater system?
I think lying about your lineage is crap but I think I get why Ninjitsu now has hand to hand in it. Running, signaling, swimming, etc were all considered martial arts but not per se fighting styles as is Ninjitsu. To make Ninjitsu a successful system you would either have to only teach qualified fighters from other schools or teach them how to fight yourself. Imagine going to a special forces school in the military but skipping the shooting and weapons. Now you got a bunch of guys that can pop up anywhere and not fight? Sounds irrational to me.
There is a korean ninja youtuber who's not bujinkan trained that talks about ninjutsu coming from china originally. 👍
@@secondstarllc many claim such a thing. It was surmised for a long time that monks taught locals to defend themselves when they moved from China creating ninjitsu. So maybe
You have to rember China had influence on japan other asian countrys. Takamatsu was also the bodyguard for the last emperor of China. you had to be a badass to even be that close to someone of that status and stature.
@@secondstarllc lolz chosen ninja he benn Mia I herd him saying the same thing.
What do they mean by real?
Thank you for this video. I tried having an open discussion on this topic with other Bujinkan practitioners several times and it always circles back to "Of course you can't find evidence. It's Ninjutsu. Its secret.". But oh well. I'll practice Bujinkan for fun when the pandemic is over, at least 6 of the 9 lineages seem to be authentic as Samurai schools. That's more Ryus than anyone would need in a lifetime, lol.
They're in denial that they made a commitment without first researching the authenticity, martial arts after you learn the body mechanics and skills are all about authentic feeling and ones ability to face the truth. You can do better bro! Join an authentic karate/JSA lineage and read Anthony's books, you'll be 10× the shinobi any bujinkan karateka will ever admit :)
Of course they will never seriously discuss the subject or assume the truth, their degrees and danes and martial tourism will become like the pyramids of Egypt, pure sand.
The Dr. Zoughari should write in the first page of this new book "Please... believe me".
@@TaoistSwordsman Thank you for the kind words! I will seriously consider it. I'm not sure which school to go for, but I'll figure something out.
@@kumashinobi8447 People get furious if you question the legitimacy. I can understand, though. I'm a medical researcher myself and still fell for the nonsense without fact checking from the beginning. Granted it was a lot harder to check stuff 15 years ago.
I used to be in the bujinkan when I was in highschool, honestly looking back on it I don't know what to think, Hatsumi just keeps getting weirder though lol.
I was in it in college. Left on bad terms. Its a cult. The fighting doesn't work. The stuff on reading the room and emotional intelligence is amazing.
I recently bought "In search of the Ninja!",..I am very immpressed by Mr. Cummins work thus far!,... Thank you Sir!
So what about Natori Ryu, information is scarce on it? But it does seem truly genuine.
Yes lots of info in the historical record. In army listing recorded documents not to mention the Shoninki
Sean Askews books paint a different perspective. The two of you actually touch on similar aspects.
Hi Anthony surely this question or comment was already asked but there we go: do you have any interpretation or opinion on the work of Sean Askew on the subject? I don't want to create a historians' war or fanboy on a topic in fact I find your research work quite important being an active member of the Bujinkan. On the other hand another question that comes to me when watching this video is no school of the Bujinkan have any contact with any samurai/ninja family?
As far as I understand he has found no new information
So where did the actual hand-to-hand and weapons combat techniques come from? I'm trying to figure out where he pulled that information from. For example, a lot supposedly traditional Japanese jiu jitsu in the United States is actually a direct derivative of Judo. Some styles took the newaza and nage but left off the randori. Other styles focus solely on the goshin-jitsu kata and created a whole style around that. Where did the non espionage related arts come from in this system?
It will be a mix of many things
Think a good example of what you're talking about in the beginning is seen in the documentary Patterns of Evidence. Essentially, both the church and mainstream archeology are saying that the Israelites were in the Ramses 2 era of the Egyptians, which of course makes a point of contention between archeologists and the church... But then there's evidence of Semitic slaves prior a few hundred years to Ramses 2, and in fact, there's an obelisk from the time of Ramses 2 that basically stated a trade agreement between Israel and Egypt (if I remember correctly. Something along those lines. Been years) meaning Israel was already a powerful nation by Ramses.
Good points with a solid argument. Gotta love that Bon Jovi's the guy that came to his mind when it came to famous rock star, though.
I wanted to say Bon Scott but not many will get it
To be fair, I think ppl will get neither.
I wonder how much was more takamatsu was inspired by a comic... and Hatsumi went beyond inspiration.
For example, if a marvel fan and martial artist wanted to make a real way of the spider (Spider-Man martial art in the comics he developed) you could use that as an inspiration for the principles, but then take hojojutsu and jujitsu for the practical skills. I know historically this happened a lot with tengu.
If a person was honest about the inspiration and said they were inspired by Spider-Man in principle, and they made hojojutsu combined with jujitsu work, and if either they or a student of theirs was good at it in practice, I'd actually be willing to learn from them. Humans use myth especially around warriors for principles for centuries. The native American tribes still teach combat through dance and myths. And the Techniques work.
I myself am inspired by star wars as a martial artist. The jedi got me into swordsmanship, and form 5 is very much kenjutsu/longsword. Form 7 I'd probably say is more greatsword/nodachi type weapons. There are good lessons in it for a swordsman. I mean all a lightsaber is is a light up shinai or escrima stick that makes sounds in reality 😂
Watch your wrists!
I don't know. I just remember reading some of the old books and seeing Takamatsu and seeing clear signs of hard training, definitely similar to iron body training found in shoalin and karate, with Takamatsu, and seeing the old hard videos of him and Hatsumi, then 80s role around and its starting to get too soft...
I know something similar happened with aikido. Modern aikido is nothing like Ushieba senseis. Even in his later years.
There definitely seems to be a point in the 50s or so where hard, very dangerous martial arts somehow got soft to the point of useless flowery crap in Japan. Then us Americans made it worse after the 2000s (sorry guys.)
holds bridge of nose and sighs ;)
Question for you then.. what do you make of the stories about Takamatsu? I had never really paid attention much to them but after reading some of them I am sitting here thinking... sounds a lot like mythology to me. Has anyone ever verified any accounts of his skill?
Modern variant of the Tengu you think 🤔
Hatsumi Soke has said this on many occasions, it’s because Takamatsu Sensei changed the names of the Toda family members in the lineage to protect them. After all an ultra-secret organization of agents and spies is a serious thing. Hatsumi Soke has even stated this in an interview in a Japanese magazine before, So, to expect to find the names listed in the given history would produce no results. They are not names of actual people in history. In Takamatsu Sensei’s stories, the man he is calling his maternal-grandfather, Toda Shinryuken Masamitsu, is most definitely Toda Hisajiro. The events in his life, the inter-relationship of his direct family members with the Kuki clan, the Hattori clan and the Matsudaira (Tokugawa) clan through adoptions and marriages, the family’s rule at Matsumoto castle with Mt. Togakushi nearby, and his role as sword instructor at the starting years of the Kobusho military academy all match up perfectly, like pieces in a puzzle that fall precisely into place. Even the tradition of falconry he represented, the Suwa-Ryū, was centralized at the Grand Shrine of Suwa and nearby Togakushi village. It is still practiced by a few dedicated individuals in Togakushi village to this day.
And what is the reason are not another document in paralel of this to support the data??....a professor in Mie University and other researchers not found nothing in state documents or in Togakushi Region...is weird, and the thing about the actual documents of Hatsumi are make by him, because the Takamatsu burn is rare too...
@@cristian.crixus ‘The Chronicles of the Fujibayashi Family’. In this document it states that Fujibayashi Nagato no Kami taught the military strategist Yamamoto Kansuke ninjutsu and ninja fire-arts including gunnery, smoke signals, fireworks, fire arrows etc. Unfortunately, it does not specifically state in the document that Fujibayashi taught him ‘Togakure Ryū’ ninjutsu. Rather, it only says he taught Yamamoto ninjutsu -- Togakure Ryū is inferred by Japanese historians because Fujibayashi Nagato no Kami’s clan were warriors from Togakushi mountain and because of the clan’s close association with the ‘kami’ of Togakushi Shrine. The family fled to Iga from Togakushi when they lost a battle to the Hojo clan in 1213 CE. It is important to note that there is no other ninjutsu ryū from Togakure mountain. So, by default the researchers consider this lineage to be Togakure Ryū. It is known from marriage and divorce records that Hisajiro’s father, Toda Gosuke (戸田五介), was involved with the oniwaban spy and investigative network formed from the ninja families of Iga. Another interesting point is that both Gosuke and Hisajiro held the official positions of falconer to the Shogun. Interesting because falconry is known to be one of the major careers that shinobi and onmitsu in the service of the Tokugawa government would use to disguise themselves during their missions. Their falcons would often hunt and kill the carrier pigeons of rebellious and disloyal lords. Even during the Edo period, it was still common for ninja to go in and out of the residences of takasho.
@@cristian.crixus In the 2017 guide book for the town of Ayama in Iga, it states that Nagato no Kami was a master of Togakure Ryū Ninjutsu and he specialized in the arts of fire, explosives, smoke techniques and fires.
So if “the names were changed to protect the innocent”, what is the purpose of a list of soke in the first place? And protect them how? Protect them from what? Something in the afterlife? This makes no sense. There always seems to be a reason or excuse when real proof of these lineage claims is asked for. Either a fire burned the original scrolls, or the names were changed to comic book characters to “protect them”. If it is so secret that they needed protection, why talk about any of this in the first place? Perhaps to make money and to continue to try corner the market on the subject? Hatsumi is an actor that is cosplaying in real life his characters from His acting roles and media appearances. And you all can not admit that there is no proof of anything outside of the “samurai jujitsu” ryu. It was all fun and games to the Japanese media when the practitioners were limited to a handful of Japanese practitioners, but after SKH appeared, it was unleashed on the outside world. This was a chance at big money. Hatsumi found himself in.The very role he inherited, and had to continue to play the part as his teacher had before him. Admitting the truth would mean also admitting that Takamatsu had created this story after being banished from Kuki Shin Ryu. Hatsumi was not about to do that. Cult leaders often can not be questioned.
You bought that lie from Sean Askew? @@cristian.crixus
Nice video 👍🏻
You might want to pin this video on your channel's front page.
My biggest issue with the art is it would require a peer review to measure its effectiveness. Because it would be a great irony that though they can't trace their history with accuracy that what they teach actually works
Is this the Grandmaster of Natori Ryu?
Project leader
Once again, can I get one of the Shinobi Soldiers to help me out? Takamatsu claimed to be the inheritor of 9 martial arts systems, 6 samurai and 3 ninja. I know the Ninja systems aren’t historical. What about the samurai arts? I thought I saw a video interview w/ Antony where he said they were. So, were his samurai arts genuine? Thank you. 🥷
I do not know much about them but some deffo are
@@AntonyCummins Thank you for answering me, Antony. Really appreciate it.
I have a couple of questions:
1. Is it only the 3 "ninjutsu" schools that are fabricated, or are the other schools of koppojutsu, kosshijutsu etc also fabricated?
2. Whats the name of the comic book character, and do i understand you to be saying that he is listed in the togakure ryu lineage?
It’s a character from the ten san Ada braves from around the early 1900s and it’s in the extended lineage. I need to do more info on the other schools
@@AntonyCummins how do you spell the name? I want to look up the lineage and find it so that when I say these things to my bukinkan friends I can pull this out and show it to them.
No one can ask for a proof but can ask a question like what you didn't like about tekamatsu bujikan whether it was ethically teaching were not right as per traditional methods, may be some of the teaching were not contexted as per script in ninja scrolls or may be completely fake. But asking preposterous question like proof for that do research as u did can really answer the question.
I've never been in the bujinkan, but I am in the Genbukan, and there is no claim from soke tanemura that ninpo taijutsu is a ko ryu. It is a mixture of all the ryuha within the Genbukan. We do start training in the different schools once you get shodan in the Genbukan. For instance you can get menkyo in each ryuha. Like you can test for shoden menkyo in takagi yoshin ryu, or asayama ichiden ryu, koto ryu, or even togakure ryu. Is togakure ryu a traditional school, or made up by takamatsu? Don't know, and don't care. Tanemura soke is a great martial artist that is still learning different styles.
If you enjoy it, more power to you. I think it’s pretty easy to conclude from the last 40 years of information dissemination on this art that the ninja lineages are not authentic. Takamatsuden is a collection of traditional Japanese martial arts. Nothing more. Nothing less.
That face when I will never train at a school that claims Wolverine as a founder. Why even live?
Antony of the 9 schools in the bujinkan/takamatsu den, excluding the 3 Shinobi schools, do those 6 have a lineage that can be traced/confirmed they existed? And if so which of those 6 are legitimate / real?. Shinobi Ryu just seems to be plain spy craft blended in w some real black magic.
Research needs doing on that
Right I see, Wow thank you for the reply Antony.
@@SEN-oz1hq Just wanted to let you know that Antony doesn't receive notifications for replies to his replies, he only receives notifications for new comments so he didn't see your follow up comment and was unable to respond ok!
Where can I email you?, I have looked for your email, I think despite all your research I think there is something you are not aware of.
Antonyjcummins@yahoo.Co.uk if you have any proof that would be great
claims someone has no evidence, and provides zero evidence to support their own claims. Classic misdirection and logical fallacy.
I agree Takamatsu has no evidence. I’m glad you are with me on that
Anthony was begging hatsumi to take him in but got rejected then went to tanemura same thing happened there no his doing these tatitya lol
"I was the one who said this". Uh no you weren't Antony; you came along after many actual historians and koryu practitioners had, and repeated it.
Dr Hall's Encyclopedia is in no way a translation of the Bugei Ryuha Daijiten. You'd know this if you could read it.
Anthony what other martial arts have u studied
As far as I recall, the only formal training he did was in bujinkan, until he started studying ninja history, then he just practiced whatever he thought was practical iirc. Could be wrong tho!
Nani!!?? This is sad news for me to hear especially after training in the buge for so long- Can someone one tell me if there is evidence that Takamatsu was the Chinese emperor's bodyguard??
Basically there is zero evidence for any of it
Maybe yes, maybe not, who knows. We are talking about japanese martial arts knowledge that are supposed to be "secrets", so we can not expect to find out info about it in internet or even each library as a " worldwide public information". But, answering your question, it is told that one of this bujinkan "ryu", Gyokko ryu Kosshijutsu, has most of its foundation from Baji Quan, a chinese martial art from Ming Dinasty era, mastered by Emperor's bodyguard elite group
Hello Antony thank you for making another video about it. This was really very detailed and well done. As I said, I was also in the Bujinkan for almost 30 years. But I'd rather be interested in historically proven and that's the Natori ryu just the right yes thanks for your great work. 👍😁
Thank you for all your comments on all videos
Thank you 😉
Get to reading "how to be a modern samurai" :)
👍
It's off Topic,but as a Lakota Man I ask You to please cover the Connection between the Lakota and Japanese Warriors and how deep or shallow it actually is.
I do not even know what that is 😭
I think the connection between american first nation people and se asian people really predates the subject although historical similarities may seem evident especially the ainu etc
@@MultiJimbo1970 native Americans split off during the stone age and ice age, where other than basic forms of religion and pastimes with cave painting, culture didn't really exist. Besides, the people who migrated were different than the current day Lakota. Genetic change happened, as it did with the Ainu, who got stuck in Japan, and maybe a tiny sliver of Siberia. Samurais are a feudal concept of Japan with Chinese and Indian influence. Literally out of all the 3, prehistoric Indians are the closest to their modern day counterpart, though mainly South Indians, as the rest of India had different ethnic groups migrated and merge with the original Indians (this may sound a little biased, as I am South Indian, but I feel like I can answer for South India more than the rest of India, and certainly not China). India was one of the first places to independently develop farming, but you had to wait a couple thousands years before the Indus Valley Civilization, and it was only 3,500 years ago when South India started to coalesce into urban civilization and out of the neolithic, and we have Polynesians to thank for that, as they visited us and Sri Lanka and introduced plants and giant boats and other stuff, which made South India into a more functional society, a couple centuries before the Indo-Aryans noticed us, and a couple centuries after the last of the few Indus Valley Civilization strongholds in the South had stopped functioning. Unfortunately for the Indigenous people of the Americas, they never got help from others, as the only contact with the rest of the world they had were some Indigenous people from the tip of Siberia and the Asian part of the Aleutian Islands, and some stray Polynesians who lived on some distant islands far from the rest of the Polynesians, and the closest people to them were the Native South Americans who lived on some other islands which were distant from the rest of South America. Going back to my culture statement, more advanced culture occured when people discovered farming, which gave more free time to think. Native Americans discovered it on their own, so their culture is unique. For the nomadic ones, they were either Pastoral Nomads, or they were better at controlling the herds of animals than their ancestors and could preserve surpluses, so they also developed culture. A much better comparison would be the Lakota and the Central American civilizations. While they were definitely different, these civilizations were the only major ones in the continent (Native American civilizations were major too, but they changed and shifted a lot, so each individual civilization played a part in the grand scheme of things, but other than Cahokia and other mounds made by different tribes like the Hopi, not much could rival the Central Americans, though saying that they only impacted the area when Europeans arrived is just plain false. Also, due the imperialistic attitude of early America, not much was done in the field of archaeology to change the false image of Native Americans still being in the stone age when they arrived. Central America was able to build some of the greatest civilizations known to man due to geographic luck, which also explains why some Native North American cultures had farming and had built big structures, while others did not). From what I read, apparently many tribes and groups of Native Americans heard of these civilizations, and emigrated to them. The main difference in culture was probably that while many Native Americans treated their tribes as their nation-state, though there certainly were confederacies and the acceptance of other tribe members, people like the Aztecs and Mayans had their states structured more like the Old World concept of states, where the state has a little more to do with land, and a little less to do with the ethnicity of the citizens.
They were getting Katana from Somewhere.
@@davidlong3696 wait what do you mean
With all due respect, if you wrote a book about this information in a concise, organized manner, it actually might be a positive thing to warn people of being taken in by this cult. Also you say you need the cash? A book specifically on Buj/Takamatsu/Hatsumi would likely be your best seller to date. What is negative is their continued exploitation of people and them trying to corner the market on the subject. If you don’t want to write it, someone should.
Basically 戸隠流 is a huge pile of horse💩. The question is who started the fakery, Takamatsu or Hatsumi?
Somebody needs to silence this guy forever
It's easier to just ignore him.
And by the way. What is your view on Christa Jacobsen today? I think I heard in one of your videos that you have some form of contact? That she is one of the people that you have had a friendly conversation with on this topic. I know that you are saying constantly that you're done with the takamatsu den. But what if some history or evidence of their claims actually surfaces one day. Wouldn't you listen even then?
The point of this video is not to talk about them again 😂
@@AntonyCummins I know that it is. You didn't really answer the question though. If there were to surface som real historical evidence that shows that Takamatsu actually has real historical proof, be it scrolls or other sources, would you be interested in those sources, or would you ignore it? Im asking as it comes across that nowadays you are just automatically biased against the Bujinkan just because. The majority of the people interested in ninjutsu and historical japanese warfare etc are members of, or at least knowledgable of the bujinkan. And if you wanna sell your books to a wider audience, I don't think just giving the long finger the those people will help your cause. That's why Im asking. If you would try to assimilate yourself more to the ninjutsu people regardless if they're bujinkan or not, I think your audience would grow. But now you're just done with them you say.
I like your books and the scrolls you collect, but I can understand some people's frustration with being called frauds for just asking questions.
CHRISTA JACOBSON teach his modern believes about NINJUTSU...is not real, is not a lieneage behind.
Her stance and sermon hasn't changed, so I couldn't imagine Anthony's opinion to have. To sum up iirc She's a nice enough person who doesn't necessarily "lie" about her lineage, but she does just teach ninja flavored karate, which is of course not as effective as "unflavored" traditional karate, invented with a purpose other than to market a comic book legend (comic book legend beung ninja black belts 🤫)
@@cristian.crixus ootarioo
Takamatsu , empowerment , enlightenment.
RIP takamatsu sensai
HELLO TO ALL SAMURAI AND NINJA ENTHUSIASTS!!! ON BEHALF OF ANTONY CUMMINS I WOULD LIKE TO INFORM YOU THAT HE DOESN'T RECEIVE NOTIFICATIONS FOR REPLIES TO HIS REPLIES. HE ONLY RECEIVES NOTIFICATIONS FOR NEW COMMENTS. IF YOU ARE NEW TO THE CHANNEL ANTONY WOULD LIKE YOU TO START BY WATCHING HIS 2020 DOCUMENTARY.
Can one of the Shinobi Soldiers tell me the name of the comic book character in Takamatsu's lineage?
Sasuke Sarutobi. He was not in the lineages but into the brief description in old times, they said Sasuke was trained by Hakuunsai Tozawa in Gyokko Ryu. Actually they deleted this info because it is clear sasuke cames from a Manga.
@@kumashinobi8447 that is so funny and fascinating. Thank you!
@@kumashinobi8447 I have been looking for this! Thanks for saying. Can you tell where this brief description was found and where we can find it now? This seems to be the main thing hinging on the whole argument, would be great to know these exact deets!
@@ZakCiotti I read it for the first time in an interview of the Budo magazine of Spain with a Shihan of the Bujinkan (P. Fleitas), it was widely disseminated by the Shidoshi Peter Carlsson in the magazine Ura & Omote in 90s and published in the book "Introduction to the History of the Bujinkan Schools " by the Shidoshi Paul Richardson, chapter about Kumogakure Ryu (not Gyokko Ryu, my memory mistake), page 75.
@@kumashinobi8447 I thought it actually came from Takamatsu or Hatsumi themselves, which would have really supported the argument. This is helpful to know what the argument is really based on, though! Thanks for sharing.
wow ur da head off bujinkan. 😁
🤣
Anthony, could you keep contact with Rokas from Martial Arts Journey to talk about Ninjutsu in a live, please? It would be awesome!
Put us in touch with each other please
i did da sake test.🤪🤪🤪🤪
Sir - thank you for posting your video - I watched it from beginning to end. I also own two of your books. I am concerned by your absolute statements of 'its fake' and 'it doesn't exist', yet you rely only on one piece of documentary evidence to support the proposition. The Bugei Ryuha Daijiten itself is an unevidenced document based solely on heresay, viewed through the lens of those gentlemen who wrote it. I am concerned that your propositions are no more or less evidenced than those that support the Bujinkan and Takamatsuden, yet you purport your truth to be an absolute truth. You also state that there are many 'points' that don't align to known history yet you only name one, and repeat that same point over and over again. You say you were told the Bujinkan taught one thing, and then you were told that it taught another - who told you this? What was the date? Do you have documentary evidence of this conversation or is it more heresay? It seems you have fallen victim to the same embellishments that Takamatsu is accused of. Can I put the proposition to you, that if you were the head of a secret society, would you advertise that fact? Would you write it down in enough forms so that some articles would survive hundreds of years? Of course the answer is no. If some historians visited you and asked you to describe your lineage or view your supporting documents, would you tell the truth? Of course not. The truth is that we will never know one way or the other, and in a very Japanese way, the truth is hidden in the metaphors - perhaps you could focus your conclusions on this truth.
Hi - I think you missed the point of the video. There is no negative proof. That’s the point. -lease watch again.
@@AntonyCummins Respectfully, I think you may have missed the point of my post also, its a reach to declare one way or the other without the corresponding quality or quantity of evidence to support the argument, but that's ok I respect your wish to move on from a question that I suspect will plague us all for a long time. Please keep writing and exploring - it is only through questioning that we will make discoveries.
@@islanddave9575 He's selling a product, so of course he's going to try his best to make his argument sound concrete, even if it is riddled with invalid logic.
I'm glad you touched on the point of secrecy. I've made this point before that koryu bujutsu have always been secret styles. He conveniently ignores this fact for the benefit of his argument. There are historical records in the scrolls. Information that is not shown to two random guys who walk into your dojo and say they're making a book about martial arts.
These supposed "ninja scholars" are clowns. I've apparently found more historical documents than they have just casually browsing the internet occasionally. I found ties with Miyamoto Musashi and the Toda family among many other intriguing facts in the historical records. All these families that the Bujinkan mentions in the kuden and densho appear a lot in japanese history and since they were at the peak of the drama during this timeframe these families are all tied together in many events of feudal history.
I tell this guy to learn a 500 year old bujutsu. Listen to the kuden and talk to your soke about this ancient history, then with that knowledge do your research properly.
@Island Dave
It would have been documented by the Shogun.
@@islanddave9575 tag
Bujinkan is a cult
I am a bujinkan student.
The teachers in my dojo (non profit organisation) never claimed to me or told me that taijutsu means hand to hand combat. Never.
I personally consider the taijutsu as a art of body movement, focused on armed and armoured combat particularly for extended periods of time fighting multiple opponents in groups or defending and quickly escaping from raids.
I see the taijutsu as a platfform for weapons training based on a battlefield situatuion.
I mainly use the taijutsu for more ergonomical and energy effective movement in my daily life.
Historical or not:
If i ever had thought about bujinkan taijutsu as ninja hand to hand combat, i would feel very stupid in the meantime.
It seems like many people are somewhat misleaded (maybe including myself).
Proof me wrong xD
I probed...SHINOBI NO JUTSU are not techniques to fight...fight is bujutsu.
Historical or not, it was invented in the late 1950's by a japanese/american immigrant looking to make a name for himself, clearly not to "pReServe an aRt, since it doesn't even represent karate well at all. during a time before internet and ease of research. Let yourself advance and grow with the times bro
That "historical martial art" Bujinkan is based on is Karate and Judo. Which are only just over a century old themselves. "Karate belts" and formal ranking were invented by judo-ka a couple of short decades before karate was invented and named "kara-te", and almost a century before Bujinkan was invented. Anyone who holds a "Dan rank" or "black belt" is practicing a descendant art of Karate. In the case of Bujinkan, it's newer than Taekwondo which was invented and named in 1955.
The forms in bujinkan are inspired by karate forms, which themselves are inspired by Chinese whooping crane.
Instead of trying to fix something that was invented with intention to lie, deceive and profit, let's just practice the purest arts we can with intention to progress. If you want to practice karate and brand it as ninja, then by all means. But there was never and will never be a "Shinobi Black Belt"
@@TaoistSwordsman - What color is the sky on your planet, son?
Either way. Kukishin ryu is real. The Samurai Ryuha are in my opinion the only thing worth training in,in the Bujinkan.
There is no such thing as a "samurai ryuha" as opposed to a "ninja ryhuha".
@@jachyra9 correct the kukishin has a ninjutsu section
@@MultiJimbo1970 - That's not really what I meant.
@@jachyra9 did I say ninja ryuha ?
@@computron808 - By implication, yes. Claiming "samurai ryuha" in any context is problematic. You claimed "samurai ryuha" in regards to training in the Bujinkan, which by implication means you believe there are "samurai ryuha" as opposed to "non-samurai ryuha"( "ninja ryuha" ) in the Takamatsuden.
I believe the history of the Bujinkan falls somewhere in the middle of coming down from actual Ryu ha and non-historical stuff mixed together. If Takamatsu “invented” everything then he was some kind of genius. He and Hatsumi likely mixed in historical and non-historical ideas to add flavor to the stories.
Looking at most martial arts, there is always a point at which the history gets a bit questionable. How many Ryu started with a fantastic dream or the originator learned from a tengu? How far back do you need to go before things get questionable? Who knows?
If you demand a koryu art then don’t get involved in something like aikido or judo. If you only want something with a “proven” history there are a few out there with pretty documented, unbroken lineage. If you see a martial art that you like and you are comfortable with the “history” then go ahead and do it. No matter what you practice there will always be folks that demean the art, the teacher, the history or something they don’t agree with. Hell, there are people out there that hate my brand of whiskey and say it wasn’t distilled the right way. I just smile and raise my glass to those that have nothing better in their lives than to try to destroy what others enjoy. Listen to what others have to say. Then, do your own investigation.
Thank You. I agree with this. There is no way that what Takamatsu lived by and Hatsumi teach and live by is just BS to throw away. The aspects of “Bujikan” and schools like Togakure Ryu take an aspect of what is in those scrolls and applies it to, a modern way. He even says it, things like ninjutsu must adapt and change to what’s going on today. Even in Cummins books, the samurai way must be adapted for times of War and “Normal” times. Just because an adaption and utilization of a hand to hand combat that encompasses the mindset of shinobi. I won’t rule it out. I can’t set it down. It’s the best a logical way of applying some kind of combat adaption from that espionage/spy combat moment. Just my opinion. Appreciating that someone still sees Bujikan as an art. Maybe not “correct” in time line. But a damn good view of what their combat could have been. A fighting style nonetheless.
In this information age of greater transparency, it would be advisable for Hatsumi's Bujinkan to drop the ninja claim. I wish Takamatsu hadn't lied, because I suspect they are practicing SOME sort of martial art and it's a historical loss to not know its origins. It's like a book that someone removed the author's name.
Agreed.
Every martial art in the world is made up? All of it. The bottom line is some arts have been battle tested in wars and proven to work. Which is why tradition is still valued/honored. Videos like this are splitting hairs on the tiniest of details.
@@getawaydreamer2724 But real "shinobi no jutsu" are not a fight art...that is only bujutsu.
That "historical martial art" Bujinkan is based on is Karate and Judo. Which are only just over a century old themselves. "Karate belts" and formal ranking were invented by judo-ka a couple of short decades before karate was invented and named "kara-te", and almost a century before Bujinkan was invented. Anyone who holds a "Dan rank" or "black belt" is practicing a descendant art of Karate. In the case of Bujinkan, it's newer than Taekwondo which was invented and named in 1955.
The forms in bujinkan are inspired by karate forms, which themselves are inspired by Chinese whooping crane.
Instead of trying to fix something that was invented with intention to lie, deceive and profit, let's just practice the purest arts we can with intention to progress. If you want to practice karate and brand it as ninja, then by all means. But there was never and will never be a "Shinobi Black Belt"
@@getawaydreamer2724 Exactly, every martial art was made up at some point in history, but only some of them were invented during and for effective use in a time of war. When and why was Bujinkan invented again?
Oh yeah, Bujinkan was invented in the fifties by a japanese/american immigrant who's a black belt in karate, looking to make a name for himself. Was it tested in war? No. Was it tested on other martial artists? No, "Our S3CrEtS aRe tOo DeaDlY to use against others."
good stuff bro that why i took some stuff see if work in these time and does cho ho jutsu Kayaku-Jutsu (Fire and Explosives) Henso-Jutsu (Disguise and Impersonation) Shinobi-Iri (Stealth and Entering Methods) Inton-Jutsu (Escape and Concealment) fire training kenjutsu and survival i still study Togakure ryu ninjutsu and ninpo all part to scroll is read topic
Its origin is a scholary question. Robert Bussey demonstrates its efficacy.
Shinobi no Jutsu is not and art for fight...what thing deminstrate Robert Bussey?
Today this "Ninja" story continue, Kacem Zoughari make recently a new book about the NINJUTSU of Takamatsu, with old interviews, etc...I only see a promotion of this book; for researchers, and the Mie University, the "ninjutsu" of Takamatusu begins with him... I believe he know Kukishinden Ryu, and all the "ninja stuff" if added for Hatsumi and his study witn Yumio Nawa sensei in Masaki Ryu, nobody talk about this.
Es una lastima que este video no este traducido en español, porque esta muy bien explicado el problema.
@@kumashinobi8447 Hay programas donde puedes hacerle subtítulos; la cosa es que ¿de qué sirve?, en centro y latinoamerica la gente practicante de Bujinkan, Genbukan y Jinenka es mucho más cerrada de mente que lo habitual...todos buscan SER NINJAS...
@@cristian.crixus no por mi, yo lo entiendo, sino para que llegue a la masa, esas organizaciones se han atomizado, ya solo es cuestion de tiempo. Nadie les cree, saludos
With respect, Mr Antony Cummings you can make so called historical claims on Ninjutsu in general and its use in Samaurai culture but your work doesn't take into account Kuden. I dont believe you have researched the specific families to the extent others have. For anyone interested in the in depth research and historical significance of the Takamatus Den and the Bujinkan Dojo Leniage. I recommend SHAWN ASKEW , as I believe he has done a more in depth research on this lineage specifically for it's own sake as opposed to selling books and making money.
I agree with you at most. Most Ninjutsu teachings and stated history is no more than crap and kabuki based tales. However, while tearing down the fake history of Shinobi, can you explain what is the truth of the ninja and is there still any real schools of authentic training that you know of. As for scrolls and written records, you mention 2, you did not mention Ninpiden. What are your thoughts on this?
Every martial ever is made up?
"Dr. Hatsumi was asked many years ago to provide documentation of some of his lineage for admittance to the Kobudo Shinkokai, perhaps the most reliable of the major organizations of traditional Japanese martial arts, and according to Donn Draeger, in a conversation to me, he was not able to provide documentation which proved his lineage to their satisfaction. Thus, there are uncertain areas in Dr. Hatsumi's lineage."
What? There are special circumstances for sure, but Soke Hatsumi is the inheritor of takamatsus art documentation or not like most ninja techniques were passed down through training and not written scrolls
@@jon82489 Oral transmission only occurs within scrolls not whole lineages.
Then why does Hatsumi have scrolls then? @@jon82489
It doesn't get any easier with these individuals, does it? 👍
Nope
They're relentless to live in fantasy. If only they put this kind of effort into actually training or something 😕
@@TaoistSwordsman - Dropped on your head quite a lot as a baby, were you?
Hatsumi has made a packet off his bullshido. There is too much money invested in the maintenance of the ninja legend, by lots of people including all the Hatsumi disciples.
Black belt magazine and the 1980’s boom made the monetisation of the ninja myths inevitable. The stories are so good, everyone wants them to be real. I would like them to be real.
Takamatsu probably liked telling stories, and Hatsumi just marketed his tall tales very well. A good PR man with a knowledge of Jiu Jitsu that he could add a few twists too.
I have thought about this alot for some time after I quit the Bujinkan. Now I have started again and this is the reason:
I don't think that Takamatsu and Hatsumi has made it all up just to squeeze money out of people. I think that the point of the Bujinkan is a mindset of combat. I think that they have knowledge, being it scrolls, koryu, or other sources, of techniques and such that were performed in older times. It doens't mean though that those techniqes were special to the Shinobi no mono, and when I say Shinobi no mono, I mean those soldiers, being special forces in the army, or hired people carrying out shinobi missions, such as spying or sabotage etc. It could be that Takamatsu and Hatsumi view certain ancient koryu/combat techniques as techniques of the shinobi/ninja, becuase they are clandestine, or made to fool or disorientate their victim. That it is a broad mindset of combat. So even if there are no scrolls or documents saying that ancient shinobi were using special hand-to-hand techniques, they (takamatsu and hatsumi) created a modern style based on various combat techniques from those ancient times, even if they weren't, at that time, connected to the ninja in the war machine. Because some of the techniques, like Metsubushi (blinding powder) actually did exist. They were used by police for example in criminal capture. And the names described in bujinkan "history" did exist. Some of them either way. Though if they are connected in the way that bujinkan claims, that is up to question. However, there are points in the history described by the bujinkan that is true. Or true enough as it is very difficult to be certain of anything as ancient times are so far away from modern times. So that is my theory, because I haven't heard hatsumi say specific, that ancient shinobi no mono, those special forces in the sengoku jidai war machine, did unquestionably use those specifik Togakure ryu hand-to-hand techinques.
Your comment has hit home with me the most. I think videos like these all they do is make people quit doing the thing they love doing the most. None of us are going to become "Ninja's" or go on missions. However this is a fun art, helps your body fight back aging, Help you live longer. The moment you stop any martial art, You start to age and die slowly. Lots of scrolls in Japan were destroyed due to WW2. Unless time travel is ever realized, Then we have no choice but to learn what there is to learn. The fact of the matter is that the US Marines use elements of Bujikan in their combat system to help soldiers survive a fight in the battlefied. If this crap didn't work, It wouldn't be in the USMC Martial arts program. This art has merit to it.
@@getawaydreamer2724 The thing behind this is SHINOBI NO JUTSU are not techniques to fight... you learn only bujutsu, a modern one....
That "historical martial art" Bujinkan is based on is Karate and Judo. Which are only just over a century old themselves (karate was invented in 1890 iirc, aka 400+ years after shinobi and samurai were abolished). "Karate belts" and formal ranking were invented by judo-ka a couple of short decades before karate was invented and named "kara-te", almost a century before Bujinkan was invented (late 1950's in America). Anyone who holds a "Dan rank" or "black belt" is practicing a descendant art of Karate. In the case of Bujinkan, it's newer than Taekwondo which was invented and named in 1955.
The forms in bujinkan are inspired by, but not based on karate forms, which themselves are inspired by Chinese whooping crane.
Instead of trying to fix something that was invented with intention to lie, deceive and profit, let's just practice the purest arts we can with intention to progress. If you want to practice karate and brand it as ninja, then by all means. But there was never and will never be a "Shinobi Black Belt"
It's funny to hear when Bujinkan defenders always fall to the same argument ad ignorantiam, when they try to validate their believe.
sean askew…ya might wanna dive into his work
Ninja school of the gaps?
Now, if you want to make your channel relevant again, it might be time for someone like you to take a look at Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. You could start off by just looking at the name to start with - how Jiu means absolutely nothing and Jitsu doesn't mean art! It's a real rabbit hole like Ninjutsu.
Oh wow the RUclips algorithm expert came by to give you advice @Anthony Cummins you'd better research this!!!!
"the ignorance is so dare". Jiu jitsu is the way that brazilian write "ju jutsu" down, because it is the way that sounds or is pronounced. Bjj has its roots from judo and japanese traditional jujutsu, due to its creator was taught by a japanese kodokan judo master
Umm, I read the comments 1st and was a bit sad until I hear this guy talk. You people are letting this guy discredit takamatsu and masaki Hatsumi. It seems insured. Who the hell is this guy? He even called him self a Soke of some samurai art only he knows. I have no do that some schools fell into anonymity. They lost there vigor, for some reason people want to learn a war art without any aggression, diluted then wonder why it looks different. Crazy
It’s a huge fallacy to prove that something isn’t proven isn’t real! It’s like when people say prove that magic isn’t real when they need to prove it is in fact real in the first place.