Bending Thick Steel with 3D Printed Tools - Prusa PLA
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2019
- Try 3D&CNC service at PCBWay
www.pcbway.com/rapid-prototyp...
The strongest tools from this video were printed with a Prusa i3 MK3s using standard PLA. I printed 12 perimeters with 20% gyroid infill at 0.2mm layer height. If you're interested in reading about what experts in the field have to say about this, check out these two articles:
The Jaw-Dropping Perks Of 3D Printed Press Brake Tooling:
www.e-ci.com/ci-stories/2019/...
Need a custom press brake tool? Try printing it:
www.thefabricator.com/additiv...
Please support my channel to help me make more videos and projects like this: / protog42 You can also support me by simply liking and commenting on my videos or purchasing anything through my amazon link: amzn.to/2E2suC9 It does not change the price of anything you buy and I still get a small percentage of the sale.
See my instructables account for step by step guides to some of my projects: www.instructables.com/member/P...
Please support my channel to help me make more videos: / protog42
FOLLOW:
/ protog42
/ protog42
/ protog42
Other Great Channels!
AddOhms : / addohms
Afrotechmods : / afrotechmods
EEVblog : / eevblog
Keystone Science : / hobcoman
GreatScott : / greatscottlab
ElectroBOOM : / msadaghd
Kevin Darrah : / kdarrah1234
Julian Ilett : / julius256
CNLohr : / cnlohr
Andreas Spiess : / @andreasspiess
The Ben Heck Show : / thebenheckshow
Mikeselectricstuff : / mikeselectricstuff
5:36
When you want to reach smithing 100 and you need to make a thousand daggers
It's not surprising that this did well, especially on the first two tools that you demonstrated. Lots of people don't understand the difference between hardness, toughness, and strength; being in the metal business you probably do but maybe haven't thought about it much as relates to thermoplastics. PLA is one of the hardest thermoplastics so its not surprising that it did very well in compressive loading. Likewise, its not surprising that it broke on the gooseneck tool since it has low tensile strength/toughness.
Cool video - it will definitely make me think about using 3dp for making dies for one-off runs! Another cool and similar use that comes to mind are rolling and bending dies.
I have my printer setup for polycarbonate since I often need functional parts. Would that be better than PLA? It would probably last more cycles at least. Replying to an old comment I know.
@@paint4pain polycarbonate is superior to PLA I think in every way, IIRC it has a higher hardness and tensile strength. Probably your main consideration at that point is just the cost of different filaments.
@@EdKohlwey Thanks! That's about what I thought, it does cost about 50%-100% more per kilo, print speed is also way slower than PLA and you have to dry it to prevent hydrolysis.
I think that the misconception of PLA strength comes from assuming that its strength is kind of a "von mises" (aka. plastic materials (in the sense of deformation tolerant materials)), but actually is more akin to "mohr coulomb" (brittle materials, as unreinforced concrete, rocks, etc) with good compressive strength but really weak in many ways that other plastics are strong.
(I am avoiding to say "brittle material models" vs "plastic material models" because it would introduce noise of definitions)
Wow, I wasn't expecting that. That seems like a real game changer for small custom jobs.
I really didn't expect the tools to perform as well as they did either.
I work in the 3D printing industry and people are always amazed that FDM printed plastic parts meet or exceed the compression and wear properties of injection molded plastics. Add a little filler in the form of glass or carbon fibers and you have yourself a tool usable for hundreds of cycles. My favorite material I've used is a glass filled PC-ASA that I made myself.
Not sure about glass but the negative for carbon fiber is it becomes abrasive so not for mating parts
@@albertvillalobos1377 Its true that all reinforcing fibers are abrasive. For high friction/wear zones moly disulphide can be used to improve wear characteristics.
How is the filler added? I've never done 3d printing.
@@TheArtificiallyIntelligent Its melt processed in large batches. Molten plastic heated to temp is added to fillers (fibers with a de-clumping agent and compatibilizer). This is then blended until the fibers are evenly distributed (homogenous). This is then pelletized. The pellets are fed into an extruder. The filament comes hot out of the end of the extruder into a water bath and once cool and dry is wound onto a spool.
Hi Zach!
You saved me a half year of study. Due to the coronacrisis, I had some issues with making the prototype for my graduating project. The manufacturers were all closed, so I had to find another solution. A classmate cut the sheets on the perfect size, and I could bend it with this trick on my room (using a vise and some muscles). Thanks a lot!
Perfect Timing! Just bought a press brake and was looking to make some tooling on my printer! Cant wait to try it! Im amazed at how well they perform!
OMG this is exactly what I need. I need to bend 2 x 3mm copper busbars so very limited run and have a 3D printer and access to a hydraulic press!!! Thanks for sharing 👍👍👍
Cool! Never thought that this would work. I think I wouldn't even have tried. Thanks for sharing this gem and reminding me that I shouldn't be that quick with my assumptions. 🙏❤️
Thanks for watching!
You just got to up your youtubing skills, there’s been videos on this for a couple years now
@@albertvillalobos1377 Please point me to a video bending steel this thick as I have not seen it.
Never thought this would be possible ! That give me a way of possibilities to create.... Thanks you so much for this test !
I found this video to be very interesting and informative as I did not know that it is possible to actually print press brake tooling!
A Workshop can really benefit from having the capability to make such tooling, especially overnight!
Thank you for those helpful links in the description, I'm glad I found and subscribed to your channel.
Awesome!
Just bought an small arbor press and already was thinking about 3D printing some tools. Your video just showed me that this is no stupid idea.
Thanks for sharing!
I've used 3D-printed parts as tools for some years and I find it very useful. Sometimes it is a great advantage to cover the tooling part with a sheet metal in order to protect it. ;). For example I've made a tool for creating dust cap rings for old BMW's. A part that is not made anymore. Works as a charm. Thanks for the informational video!
I agree, printing the part slightly smaller and then attaching the first bent sheet to the part would massively improve life span.
Thank you very much! Serious test with valuable links to improve our understanding. Love it! Have a merry Xmas and a happy new year!
3D printed PLA parts can be very strong and hard wearing when parts are designed right, and take advantage of the material and process. Most people have a low expectation of 3D printing due to so many poor designs that people print, then blame the technology when they fail. Sure there are limits, but when used right there is huge potential. I have made PLA gears that are used in a industrial environment that have surpassed 4 million rotations and tested small parts rated for 50Kg to over 500Kg.
Excellent stuff, I have been doing my own dies, all sorts, from 3D PLA prints. One just has to study/understand the geometry of the part that requires forming, the forming dies and the amount and type of material and density to hold under certain tonnage pressure. It is amazing the level of manufacturing applications that you can take simple PLA 3D prints to, it is a very tough material provided it does not heat up, the wear of the PLA tool comes mainly from heat during the pressing in a press configuration, as the material of the die rubs against the blank creating friction, the cycle of the pressing also has to do with the wear on the tool, if you allow greater time between each pressed part, the tool, the pla material, has more time to cool and regain its original hardness, more continuous presses will eventually generate more heat in the parts and build up to a level that deforms the die shape, ultimately. A fan pointed to the die allows it to remain cool during work cycle and one can actually increase the duty cycle of it. Understanding how this works and more importantly how to control the process, I have saved hundreds of dollars, otherwise, doing my own dies. Check out my custom 3/4" (0.922"OD, 0.842"ID) conduit press to allow the ends to mate with some Maker Pipe connectors more securely. Now it is done with a 3D printed die setup under a 2 ton bench press. It works beyond belief!
Impressive. I figured it would be great for thin stock custom bends, but didn't expect it to tolerate such thick steel.
Really cool! There's a lot of possibilities with this technique. For the gooseneck shape, it might be possible to print a watertight "cup" and fill it with a stiffer casting material (epoxy with some additives perhaps).
When I was working in the fab shop all our dies were of some sort of metal. Today with so many more ways to make things with 3D printing. Just night and day different from the past.
very cool. i never would have thought pla would work for this
Well, it was definitely a learning experience watching this video. Who would have thought it possible.
Excellent, good demo of capability. Thanks!
Your shop is always neat to see.
I might start doing more videos in the shop to try to balance the electronics vs mechanical videos.
I've been wanting to do this for some of the more complex shapes of sheet metal on my truck restoration project. Ideal would be scanning then printing the shape needed then stamping the 18-20 gauge parts.
This is really cool, thanks for this, I do some manual metal forming at home (usually over steel and wood forms or sandbags ) then beating them out with various hammers, I had been waiting for an oportunity to use my 3D printer to make some forms but I haven't found the need yet, but this is really interesting I hadn't thought of using it in a press like that
if your going to be hammer forming with the dies your probably gonna want to make them out of nylon . Or abs at a minimum...not guite as much tensile strength as pla but much tougher far as impacts go.(if have a decent compressor be sure and test out some homemade hammer heads for an air chisel...your shoulders and hands will love you!)
working in a workshop like that would be my dream job!
I never would have even though to try something like this. I have hydraulic press type of press brake. I am definitely going to have to do some experiments of my own.
You could try annealing the pla. I've found it makes it much stronger (and heat resistant). You could also put a copper shim around the contact points to reduce wear without altering the profile by much. Very impressive.
This summer I did a little run of 40 brackets to hold my solar panels using a 3D printed punch and die from PETG, run on my hydraulic press. The brackets were stainless steel 1" wide, 5" long, and about 0.050" thick, and they took about 1 ton of force when really bottoming out. The punch did deform a bit on the 0.125" radius, but other than that the parts matched the designed shape surprisingly well. I've had worse luck bending compound curves though.
I use chopped fiber infused nylon to 3d print bottom die inserts. It makes for incredible bending versitility. The nylon reduces marring from the bottom die as well
3D printing specialized tools for a fab shop is definitely a game changer
This is great. I’m planning a similar project.
You could design the 3d printed part to just have a removable tip sooo when it is time to change you just change the head or tip and would not have to print the entire thing out every time.
I've already designed some radius attachments that just slide on to existing tooling but there will still be a need to print the entire tool out depending on the part. For example if you need to form a part similar to the part in the very beginning of the video. It already had flanges formed up so the tool needs to have that exact spacing to fit between the two flanges. Normally we would need to grind down existing tool until the part fits. The issue with prototypes is that the flange distance is likely to change and then a different tool would need to be made.
If you were going to make a tool with replaceable tips, it would probably be better to machine the base tool, then with the variable/consumable bits being softer than the base, you would probably never have to recreate the base.
If you needed to make things only slightly wider, I would imagine you could probably get away with making the tips slightly wider than the tool as well, before you have issues.
A more complex metal insert might be interesting to explore (thinking of the gooseneck specifically). You could have one that a variety of 3d printed shapes could fit onto, retaining the flexibility but with perhaps more strength.
Very interesting, thanks for posting!
Great idea for light sheet metal. Could make some impressive objects.
4:38 not sure you mentioned infill % here but increasing % to 80-100% will certainly strengthen this part (in my experience)
Great video, very surprising results!
Thanks Peter!
If there are high surface finish requirements when press brake/edge bending, the Swedish product Tribotextil™ can be applied in the pressing/bending tool and mechanically protect the sheet metal from scratches and other damages. Tribotextil™ is an extremely thin and very strong textile that in this process replaces lubricants in the tool and also protects the stamping tools from wear and coatings.
4:26 That, and PLA's tendency to gradually deform under sustained load, are why I avoid PLA for loaded components, instead going for plastics with deforming failure modes (though sudden shocks blow up everything), like PETG and ABS. Though that huge pile of bent metal says a lot about how useful all that rigidity is when parts aren't failing. Thanks for giving me something to think about next time I need a tool.
it looks impressive and 3d printed in PLA ,i whould never think it can stand against a steel
whats amazing is the fact that you could bend thinner gauge sheet steel as a "case" for the printed part, which in effect would give you a hardened edge. and use this tool almost indefinitely Plastics really are the future, so to speak.
Wow never would have thought itd be strong enough
Excellent information, however, SOP for air bending mild steel dictates the width of the vee die be 8x material thickness which results in an inside bend radius of close to the material thickness. (The inside radius is a function of the die width i.e. 1/8 of the die width.) The radius on your punch could be made to correspond which would increase its wear life. I’d suggest you try printing the punch to receive a dowel pin along its bottom edge. Only the very bottom of the pin needs to be exposed. The pin would press into place from the side of the punch.
Thanks for rhe info. Fascinating
Hola muy buena demostración el plástico aguanta mucho. Gracias por compartir tu experiencia. Ya me suscribí y te mando Saludos desde Argentina.
¡Muchas gracias Gustavo!
I've driven my car up on 3d printed blocks as well, it's pretty strong. Your one that breaks at 4:25 seems like you can go directly up the offset to reinforce it, along with the more parameters
That cutout in the tool is for having multiple bends in a small part, so the 1nd bend doesnt hit the tool when you bend the 2nd
Great video. However those were fairly large radius bends. For office furniture we use sharp top and bottom V-dies.
The load on such a tooling would be easily 4-5 times that of what you have shown.
Nevertheless, you have peaked my interest and I will definitely be trying this - probably with offset dies.
Been doing this for some time now, and ofc we did test the failure point.
PLA is quite good, but the danger is that when it fails it fails explosively.
Our test piece was a dimple die, rather small in size, it took 5.5tons before it exploded.
That's pretty impressive!
This is awesome! I wonder if you could print the lower tool (anvil?) as well? I would think that would need to be a bit stronger due to the shape.
It will definitely work, I would just put the bottom v die inside a steel tool holder that has walls on all sides. This would allow smaller printed tools without worrying about the v splitting.
This is incredibly interesting for me. I want to press some metal into a shape for a sunroof drain, on a classic beetle. I wonder if I can do something like this to make it work.
Tonnage is very much reduced as the bottom die width increases. Or if bottom die width decreases the tonnage increases by a lot. So if your application suits you can always use a larger bottom die so your print doesn't explode.
If you made the gooseneck tool wider and then beefed it up vertically once it was wide enough for your part it could have worked.. Solution 2 once bent a metal piece say 18 ga. you could leave it on the tool for a load modifier and strengthen it.
Great video, thank you!
Great work
Experiment with the infill patterns, and analyze the loads. It would be great for short runs, and rapid prototyping, not to mention saving $$$$
Brilliant video! Very interesting! I am currently working on my Facade Engineering degree thesis and I am looking into the subject of using 3D Printed tools. Is there a way I can connect with you and pick your brains on the topic? Much appreciated! Keep up the great work!
Wild shit there! Never considered using 3d printed pla dies in the brake. I have used 3d printed nylon for hold downs on the shear to not mark my material.
I have even designed custom printed back gauges for the press brake when you have a strange profile that you need to register off of.
Great content!
Got a small hobby press brake in my shop, thank you for the great idea!! Have you posted the CAD/STL files for these anywhere? I am not 100% sure, but these might work in my press, and would save me having to CAD them myself :)
I saw a fabricator on instagram, 3d_magic_mike i think it was, using 3d printed parts for tooling and he filled in the inside of the parts with epoxy resin to add strength to the parts. I think he used it to make custom shaped dimple dyes? Impressive stuff non the less! Would love to see if filling in the parts with resin improves the durability!
What hardness was the steel you used? We use a variety of different materials from 301 1/2 hard steel to 2024 t3 aluminium in aviation and making tooling like this would speed up part fabrication considerably. Thanks
What's the sharpest radius for the top tool that you've tried? Planning on using this for 1.0-1.2mm steel sheets
Very interesting. I do wonder how pla+ would have faired?
Impressive for being just PLA. I see people using PC filament for this kind of tool making, looks like PC is not always needed.
PLA is great when the characteristic you need is rigidity.
People think that pla is weak. Its not. It just have this fail curve where it does not do much of plastic deformation before failing. But its a strong material.
@@HidekiShinichi PLA is rigid (and brittle) af. if you need dimensional stability (unbending, unyielding), PLA win all other 3D printing materials
@@VuLamDang well.... Not that we have continuus carbon fiber or other simillar materials right?
I wouldnt go as far as to say that pla is absolutly best from all availble for that. But it is certainly one of the best and probably the best if it comes to standard ones.
@@HidekiShinichi ha ha yes, I was hyperbole. I was refer to the common stuff, ABC, PC, PETG. Idk if PEEK is more or less rigid, although it is certainly not common
Impressive. Thank you!
Thanks for watching!
You could make a metal shell in the bend corner ti minimze the wear
This is a very useful video
Nice work!
For parts like that though, a Hare press is much, much faster. I'll have to try printing some for that!
Do you keep any steel thicker than 10 gauge in your shop? If so have you tested this with the thicker gauges? I'm curious to see the maximum thickness these tools can reliably bend with your settings.
Nice machinery!
Another video I watched said their print specs are 3mm wall thickness with a 40% infill.
Meanwhile our maintenance workers hate 3D printing, because everything is brittle and can't withstand even small load. It's impossible to explain them it's not problem of 3D printer, but problem of guy who designed huge parts with bridges (with no supports) and with screw holes situated worst way possible - so if you turn a screw just a little, it will force layers away :/
I think I will really print out my version of same thing, consisting of five separate pieces (one model printed four times + one model to hold two sets apart at exact distance) and give it to maintenance guys. It's so simple it can be printed even at high speeds with no problem, there are no overlaps and layers are situated correct way, so threaded rod which holds everything together shouldn't break it even when they tighten it too much.
Pla shouldn’t really be used for industrial applications, these guys got lucky because it’s a one time thing, but it’s better to reserve pla for artsy projects
@@albertvillalobos1377 Sorry, you are mistaken. Experts in the field are also using PLA for this application: www.thefabricator.com/additivereport/article/additive/need-a-custom-press-brake-tool-try-printing-it
We use it just as holder for bearings, result is practically XY positioning "table" out of smooth rods. In center are attached 3D printed parts to direct air from compressor into proper direction and they are moved in circular direction. There's practically no load, just weight of smooth rods, some thin aluminium frame and those 3D printed parts to direct air. But that's not important when holder breaks after slightly pressing one screw in hole.
Have them try out Markforged, you can get crazy strength from 3D printed tooling
Holy bat crud, that is impressive. I ran a brake for a few years. We made and heat treated a LOT of our own stuff. Even if you just were prototyping the tool (not the part) to make sure you had it right, this would be a great thing. If you can get say 500 parts out of one, it might make it more cost effective to just use printed instead of steel(tool steel is expensive and finicky. I saw another video where a guy made his own license plates (apparently you can easily buy blanks) with a top and bottom die made out of aluminum. I wonder if you could just print it, support the top and bottom with a metal back plate, and press the license plate that way?
I totally agree! I will definitely try embossing sheet metal with this process and other types of forming.
Very impressive.
What if you print a honey comb infill then drill a hole in the top and inject it with hard set liquid rubber then you might be able to use the gooseneck one
pretty great for pla with fill
Do you have a link to your stl? Would like to try some
I see on the broken part you used infill. Can you tell us how many wall layers and infill percentage gave you the best results please. As you have just proved, given the right parameters and layer orientation, 3D prints have better than expected compressive strength. Great demo... thanks.
The tool that broke was 8 perimeters, 20% infill, 6 top/bottom layers. The first two tools were also printed like that and didn't but the forces were a bit easier to handle. The gooseneck tool that didn't break was 12 perimeters, 20% infill, 8 top/bottom layers. You could go 100% infill and it would probably bend even thicker steel but I would stick to at least 12 perimeters, 20% infill as a minimum starting point if you want to try to make your own tools.
@@ProtoG42 Thank you. Indeed, perimeters are more important than infill, at least in my tests.
@@ProtoG42 You don't need to go higher than 60%.. 100% infill makes the part shatter easily.. there is no flex.. you need a bit of flex at least.. 60% is a lot when you look at the density.. 3D infills also help with lateral forces.. Prusa Slicer has cubic that works wonders in all directions.. i'm an amateur anyways, but have tested a few things myself..
Excuse me, I've just started working a press and I've been bending some stair pans but I can't seem to get a uniform bend all the way across the sheets.
The ends will meet the angle, but the bend gradually opens up in between.
What should I try checking to get rid of this issue?
Wow impressive. Mahalo for sharing! : )
Thank you for watching!
Now i wanna know how abs, petg,or even carbon fiber filament will hold
have you tried printing the other part , where it holds the materials , like the base using 3d printed ?
Incredible!!!
Blown away!
Super late comment... but the goose tool, could you "insert" a metal rod "soul" so that takes all the efforts and your tool doesn't bend?
Great video btw
Metal reinforcing inserts, THAT was interesting. I suspect it wouldn't materially improve the tool's lifespan - the working surface is still plastic and is going to wear at the same rate - though it might give it greater strength for thicker material.
Wow! I wonder now, could You emboss (or stomp? I don't know the world) small and shallow shapes on some area?
Anyway I'm definitly looking for oportunity to use this :)
You'll like my next video :)
Well, I’ll be....nicely done!
It bends that samples but are bent right? half of that sample doesn't look like 90deg. And the radius looks also very big.
I'm always telling people to stop underestimating PLA... but even I was surprised by how some of these parts performed for the thicker steel. That said there is still options like more infill, OR using something stronger like PC, or carbon filled Nylon.
Any luck with small radius in thin gauge? ie: .375 VO 75 A die?
Would you share your dxf files for the 3D printed die and punch. I would like to try to make them but I don't know the clearance. Than you.
New to 3d printing. What brand of pla filament ?
Really cool! What infil and wall thickness were you using?
Thank you, 12 perimeters, 20% infill.
@@ProtoG42 This is late and all, but I was especially surprised when I saw the gooseneck fail that it wasn't 100% infilled. It's evidently good enough for a simple angle, but have you increased the infill rate for the gooseneck since this video?
@@mtnbkr5478 I have not, but it definitely has potential!
is that a Promecam machine in the backgroung? 25t, i have one with no tooling. not sure where to start. would these tools fit that machine?
That's cool. Have you considered laminating the 3D with a skin of metal to make it last longer?
I've already designed some attachments for existing steel tooling as well as plastic tooling with metal embedded into it. At a certain point it doesn't need to last longer, it just needs to be fast, cheap, and effective. The added benefit of the plastic is that is doesn't mark the part where metal tools will leave marks in the part.
@@ProtoG42 I had the same idea, but also that time would be your main focus with temporary tools like this. Could you just design the tool a bit undersized, then press a thin gauge metal, and then have a spot higher up the tool for you to ziptie that metal skin onto the tool at? Effectively, the tool would be shaping it's own skin, and it shouldn't be too hard to 3D print two very simple notches on the die for the ziptie to rest in. Should give you better load spreading, and less friction too.
This is awesome.....Could you try a symetrical die over a longer length? Say up to 1ft? 1" pieces don't exactly take a lot of tonnage....
Bending a 1" wide section of 10 gauge steel with a 1" V die requires 1580lbs. I'd rather keep going thicker than waste 12 times as much metal and plastic. The values obtained with the smaller forming tools allows me to calculate how wide of a flange I can form given a specific material and thickness.
@@ProtoG42 so keep going thicker man!!! I'm interested to see where this goes!! Lol 🍻
What about angles? What about smaller radius? R1mm? What about lower tool with smaller V? V8?
Oh wow, thats cool
The "Goose-neck" tool would hold up if you added more infill, at the cost of material cost and print time. Really nice to see 3d printing used for more than novelty items.
For skilled people in manufacturing, 3D printing feels like a natural and well needed extension of our abilities. 3D printing is for everyone but it really shines in our hands, unfortunately the industry has been fogged up and not given the respect it deserves due to the likes of 3D printing nerd and anything making benchies. Since the Stone Age we’ve needed one tool to form a specific shape until now, that’s the power or additive, it re-writes our entire rule book.
@@albertvillalobos1377 completely agree. The amount of toys and crap that are printed are astounding. As a CNC machinist and gunsmith, I have tons of useful jobs for mine that's coming in the next couple of days.