The Luddites didn't destroy machines to prevent the use of new technology, they were the workers who worked on that machines and were paid less and less and worked in horrible conditions. They actually tried to negotiate with the factory owners and the state for better working conditions and decent wages, but the bosses didn't listen to workers which were so easily replaceable. So they started to destroy machines to hurt their bosses and to put pressure behind their demands. It was never about some "anti-technology" ideology, it was about getting a fair share of the new wealth. And the economic theory is nice and all, but a Luddite would've said "Yeah, maybe it will all pay off in 30 years and improve society, that will be awesome, but I have to pay for food and shelter today and can't wait for that. So please get out of my way, I have machines to destroy, because that's the only language the bosses understand".
"Reduction of costs in production costs should lead to a reduction in prices" Recent history shows industries preferring for reduced production costs to result in increased profits instead. So, we'll see. But yeah, given the recent trend for machine learning being applied to narrative writing, programming, and even art (trained on copyrighted material without the consent of the creators), it will be interesting to see how we progress from here. I am not optimistic.
Advance in productive technologies always shifts bargaining power to bosses, as long as they own these technologies. Workers, seize their means of production!
So, if the "bosses" invest in technology and innovation, the workers should just seize that technology and innovation? That sorta sounds like people should just be entitled to take anything they want regardless of who owns or develops it. I'm not sure how good that mentality will be for society as a whole.
@@熊唯嘉 I don't forget, and I do agree with you. Until the workers can be replaced, they always have some power and deserve to be treated well. I'm just not sure seizing the means of production is a route to the betterment of society for all. On large scale, socialism and communism haven't turned out so well thus far. Deincentivising progress in the means of production has lead to stagnation. It seems like often when the gifted among us know their gifts will be taken from them, they are less likely to innovate. Despite that, thank you for taking the time to have a brief little discussion with opposing viewpoints. I appreciate the exchange of ideas.
@@tobykeller8186 I'll say what every leftist says during these debates the countries which we think of as a socialist (China the soviet union etc) the means weren't seized by the workers they were seized by the state which led to the authoritarianism and mass death under these governments I at least that a true worker run syndaclist democracy which would turn out a lot better foe what it's worth
wowie!! i'm gonna be so happy to stare at my phone 24/7 and own nothing when everything is automated!! i can trade my traditions and way of life are for the new iphone!! yummy soy bug burgers as well!!
Even if new technology was somehow wasteful and exploitative, not emprassing them would lead to stagnation of progress. And stagnation is never good, stagnant waters run foul!!
@You Can't Handle The Truth you have your opinion and I have mine however if you take people's jobs away it effects the economy, it is an extra burden to the tax payer when people have to go on the benefits system and also when you think about self service with people going out out work it will effect the employers sales.
@You Can't Handle The Truth to be fair I do agree with you about the benefits system and I have also argued that people should be given vouchers for a food shop rather than real money... I myself am lucky to say I have never had to be on benefits and never want to be.... However the more low skilled workers that go to technology... Where do you suggest they go?
@You Can't Handle The Truth the problem is with the jobs you have just listed I can see AI taking them over in the very near future... I live in the UK we do not have gas station attendants here the price is still sky high if anything it is going up and up I don't know if it's the same situation in the states.
I personally do not care if someone wants to live without technology but I don't appreciate their BS hypocrisy on people who DO use some practical technology. For example, I'm sick and tired of people condemning all cellphones and advocating for hand-writing and landline phones. Guess what? Those latter two things were worthless when I was sexually assaulted and couldn't call for help in time. I for one am grateful I was able to call for help both with my voice and with the cellphone rather than being stuck in the middle of nowhere unable to fight back while being taken advantage of by a sexual predator. Yeah, pity about those pesky landline chords not extending THAT far or the hand-written letter calling out for Help! I'm being raped!
The Luddites didn't destroy machines to prevent the use of new technology, they were the workers who worked on that machines and were paid less and less and worked in horrible conditions. They actually tried to negotiate with the factory owners and the state for better working conditions and decent wages, but the bosses didn't listen to workers which were so easily replaceable. So they started to destroy machines to hurt their bosses and to put pressure behind their demands. It was never about some "anti-technology" ideology, it was about getting a fair share of the new wealth.
And the economic theory is nice and all, but a Luddite would've said "Yeah, maybe it will all pay off in 30 years and improve society, that will be awesome, but I have to pay for food and shelter today and can't wait for that. So please get out of my way, I have machines to destroy, because that's the only language the bosses understand".
You are accurate. Sadly, those who didn't thoroughly study will not mention that.
"Reduction of costs in production costs should lead to a reduction in prices"
Recent history shows industries preferring for reduced production costs to result in increased profits instead. So, we'll see.
But yeah, given the recent trend for machine learning being applied to narrative writing, programming, and even art (trained on copyrighted material without the consent of the creators), it will be interesting to see how we progress from here. I am not optimistic.
Advance in productive technologies always shifts bargaining power to bosses, as long as they own these technologies. Workers, seize their means of production!
So, if the "bosses" invest in technology and innovation, the workers should just seize that technology and innovation? That sorta sounds like people should just be entitled to take anything they want regardless of who owns or develops it. I'm not sure how good that mentality will be for society as a whole.
@@tobykeller8186 Don't forget that it's always the workers who do the work.
@@熊唯嘉 I don't forget, and I do agree with you. Until the workers can be replaced, they always have some power and deserve to be treated well. I'm just not sure seizing the means of production is a route to the betterment of society for all. On large scale, socialism and communism haven't turned out so well thus far. Deincentivising progress in the means of production has lead to stagnation. It seems like often when the gifted among us know their gifts will be taken from them, they are less likely to innovate. Despite that, thank you for taking the time to have a brief little discussion with opposing viewpoints. I appreciate the exchange of ideas.
@@tobykeller8186 I'll say what every leftist says during these debates the countries which we think of as a socialist (China the soviet union etc) the means weren't seized by the workers they were seized by the state which led to the authoritarianism and mass death under these governments I at least that a true worker run syndaclist democracy which would turn out a lot better foe what it's worth
Informative work looking forward to future projects
Concise, on point, very good past/present correlation. Thank you.
The antagonisation of Luddites is the most successful accomplishment of capitalism
Cry more commie
You may choose to look away from reality, and continue on believing your conspiracy.
thanks for helping me describe who i am in this new 4th ind rev
Please Do William Marshal, Sir John Sully (Hero of hundred battle) lived till he was 105 age, William De Grenlay (hundred yrs war).
wowie!! i'm gonna be so happy to stare at my phone 24/7 and own nothing when everything is automated!! i can trade my traditions and way of life are for the new iphone!! yummy soy bug burgers as well!!
Wooooo!
It's definitely time for a Neo-Luddite movement.
Even if new technology was somehow wasteful and exploitative,
not emprassing them would lead to stagnation of progress.
And stagnation is never good, stagnant waters run foul!!
That's why I will never use self service. Everytime you do you are taking a cashier away.
Plus I'm not being paid for it...
@You Can't Handle The Truth why should I take their jobs away I'm only helping the employer if I didn't otherwise
@You Can't Handle The Truth you have your opinion and I have mine however if you take people's jobs away it effects the economy, it is an extra burden to the tax payer when people have to go on the benefits system and also when you think about self service with people going out out work it will effect the employers sales.
@You Can't Handle The Truth to be fair I do agree with you about the benefits system and I have also argued that people should be given vouchers for a food shop rather than real money... I myself am lucky to say I have never had to be on benefits and never want to be.... However the more low skilled workers that go to technology... Where do you suggest they go?
@You Can't Handle The Truth the problem is with the jobs you have just listed I can see AI taking them over in the very near future... I live in the UK we do not have gas station attendants here the price is still sky high if anything it is going up and up I don't know if it's the same situation in the states.
Great video!
I personally do not care if someone wants to live without technology but I don't appreciate their BS hypocrisy on people who DO use some practical technology. For example, I'm sick and tired of people condemning all cellphones and advocating for hand-writing and landline phones. Guess what? Those latter two things were worthless when I was sexually assaulted and couldn't call for help in time. I for one am grateful I was able to call for help both with my voice and with the cellphone rather than being stuck in the middle of nowhere unable to fight back while being taken advantage of by a sexual predator. Yeah, pity about those pesky landline chords not extending THAT far or the hand-written letter calling out for Help! I'm being raped!