TMM Rants On Leroy And Modern TEKKEN... AGAIN
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
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JDCR made a good point on modern tekken his last video when he was talking about A.K and that he doesnt want him to be buffed to have like a good ws punisher and pressure because then he just becomes the same like everyone else, especially these new characters that seem to have every possible tools for any situation
@@Joseph-zw6wm Well put, something the tekken devs seem to be forgetting, an imperfect character also gives the most satisfaction when ur rewarded for the time and effort u spent on that character
@@BoONeo Especially when you have loyalists who play around their weaknesses so well that they make them less detrimental. And fully press their advantages as a character.
Yeah I agree with that, I recently picked up Zafina and I thought she kinda was like everyone else, but it feels rewarding because her WS punishment is ~hot trash~ so the uniqueness is there, you know? It’s kinda sad, next character to come out will probably have a tracking hellsweep and a safe hopkick
That's why feng is the best character
And yet the community always ask for buffs to their characters by comparing them to other characters. The community are unknowingly asking for the cast to be homogenised by asking for their characters to have X move Y character has. Its a dangerous game.
The way to counter Leroy is
backdash ----> ALT F4
lmfaooooooooooooooooooo good one
Is this the secret discord tech I've been hearing about?
Or back dash PS Button > Close Application :)
How many times do we have to teach you this lesson old man?
"I love the young people"
For sure funniest comment on this video
Bro I remember the saying but where is this from lol
SpongeLeroy JankPants
Tekken 8 will be a anime 2D fighter cause there's no movement anyway why even try
Easy stonks
I always saw it as a 2D fighter for a long time tbh.
Tekken 8: King of Meter Tournament
There is a crazy amount of movement options in anime fighters tekken 7 has garbage movement I laugh at tekken hard cores when they talk about the mobility in there game
If every character in the game has the same move list like claudio like almost 60 move list i guess? then yeah you can laugh at tekken 7 players
@@Dan-ir8kf what does it matter if the game has 100 moves does a the amount of moves make you feel smart
Let's hope they listen to this advice. We all know how corporate Japan can be.
They'll hear this, dismiss everything, and make it worse by thinking it's the dumbing down that made the game more popular.
They wont listen to what the core audience wants, they'll try to do what they can to make the game even more appealing to bring in casuals, ruin the game, then they'll say the game's not popular enough to continue because they refused to make the game we were begging for.
We all know it.
Literally how I fucking feel for GranBlue. The game is fun but god damn they really fucked up the netcode and causes so much lag in the game on top of having weird ass special cancel buffer. The game just came out few months ago and now it is dead. I have to join the lobby at a specific time and rank is also dead. A game that have gotten to a point where you need to use discord to fight people is a fucking HUGE PROBLEM specially it haven’t been a year. I know GranBlue will most likely not get a rollback implication even if ppl begged for it. Japanese dev don’t want to listen to the core audience as you said.
They always do that stupid shit
And their refusal to understand rollback net play.
I feel this happens with ANY corporation, not just Japan. Once they become too big, they reach a point where they become brain-dead, prioritise money and stop listening to their consumers while going into a downward spiral.
Wish Leroy's machine gun punches were a Just frame
Totally agree
They should be in the first place...
Man and make EVERY SINGLE HELLSWEEP in the game steppable. This move is so powerful it just deserves this counterplay. It will still be super useful even when steppable. Also the more powermoves are steppable the more even weaker players actually step and LEARN to step and go deeper with game mechanics.
They did it with Bryan!
SweFrost Official thank you, it’s so hard to use ub 1+2 it’s ridiculous
You know it's bad when they nerfed side stepping.
I understand all the valid points made against Leroy In Tekken 7, but I feel Hwoarang is a borderline cheat code. Insane pressure, mix ups for days, safe rage art, absurdly good power crush and the infamous standing flamingo high low mix up that leaves you guessing.
Yea I get you man but you can learn how to play against hwoarang
I think Hwoarang is over powered too. His one power crush that can to a long combo is infuriating.
Meanwhile fahkumram gets even stronger 🤦🏾♂️
Why talk about him when you can hate on Leroy for the millionth time.
I am a master of Kung Fu
I KICK REALLLLY HARD
Jet Kazama
because one is a match up that can be easily figured out
while the other one is just stupid
How is Fhak getting stronger? The hell are you talking about?
Jet Kazama that’s true
Imagine having rank points on the line fighting against a fake 4 bar leroy.
The worst is toxic smurf account Leroys. They all suck but his tools are so good it's hard to beat them
@@INSOMNIACification tell me about it yesterday I fought a Leroy on a player match and he was light blue and I'm red ranks and barely beat him because of all his cheese
Philip Karovski Doesnt that lowkey feel embarrassing to lose to lower ranks? I feel like I need to retire every time. Like it was all a fluke and I’m exposed lol.
Shifting Clouds sometimes they winquit and then talk shit on messages. that’s what stings the most man
@@ShiftingCloudsYT haha true man it feels bad sometimes but if I lose to a Leroy i just curse the game developers a chance for scrubby players to play a still overpowered character
Trust me. people are still mad about Leroy. its just that the devs are taking their sweet time with the new season. I'm expecting more nerfs with Leroy once we get Season 4.
Let's just hope Leroy has more nerfs that he becomes unplayable
I hope he gets nerfed to so much he becomes worse than Gigas
@@AmeNGO758 that's fucking dumb. Why would making him unplayable be a smart move??
Shawn Zamir FFXV I’m starting to think it’s a different agenda when it comes to Leroy 🤔
Old Man Fogan
We can only hope
Leroy was a mistake
Atleast his costume was dope
Ivan Tsarevitch
That’s true and his card arts are pretty cool.
it seems like it was on purpose to me, they had his nerfs before they even released him
Shame he has one of the greatest designs and coolest movesets in the entire series, but if you play him you get lumped in with the tier whores
@@KingOfDarknessAndEvil ikr, im a new tekken player, and I was really fascinated by Leroy movesets and outfits but community just judges you coz you play him, I don't even know what frames are "yet" but every single freaking time I play online and mostly got wrecked by someone always pm me like "dont play braindead , you playin that char and still losses, what a newb" it just makes me sad and stop playing tekken for a while.
I like this "Mainman ranting arc."
Always interesting hearing his thoughts.... Sometimes.
Always and sometimes contridicts each other
@@elezer3947 That's the point lol
Lol 'arc'
💪😂
I wanna like your comment but I can't, you already have 69 lol
I needed main man to rant about Leroy 😤
It frustrates me fighting Leroy. Your never really ahead, he just cuts on his attacks and you never see the light of day. Same with Ram
It's never your turn agaisnt leroy. You have to fight him in the neutral and hope you get out the right move and you have no defense options. This character is just ridiculous
As I said a long time ago: Playing vs Leroy is like playing a turn based RPG, but it's never your turn.
Even when you pressure him.
He has a 10 frame stab that crushes and is safe. And you know how big his combos are after that
Ram?
@@yomamapkme fahkumram
Leroy even got his own theme song.... Talk about over powered
Lars: hold my 🍺
Lars has two (one of which is pure garbage, talking about VREDE). Geese has two, since Howard Estate uses two different versions of his theme.
@TheBestFighter people get beat by one guy and hes op lmao
@TheBestFighter I mean I dont ever feel cheesed by a charecter but it's because I'm an ok player and realize it's my fault when I lose and what's so gimmicky about law if you know the gimmicks?
Haters are gonna hate. 🤣🤣
Tmm : all you can do with leroy is guess
All mishimas with 50 50s : sweats nervously
You can ss mishima 50/50, Leroy 50/50 are homing
Gianluca Merlo sidestepping is 50/50 when they wavuwavu in your face. Meanwhile no one complaints about kazuya 13f ws launcher. Lol
12:26
lol, TMM still believes that Bamco is trying to make the game balanced, such innocence...
Should've just brought back Wang with some tweaks. I actually at first thought that Leroy was that with a spin. But no he was just straight up broken newbie friendly god tier char. :( Design wise he's cool though, I hope Harada and the team gonna rework him for Tekken 8.
Looking back at it, design is more important than frames. Look at what happened to Feng. He was mega broken in T5 and every tournament there were mirrors with him. Now he's considered for skilled players and everyone respect him. Give it few years and balance patches and he'll become very popular because style wise it's super cool. I mean come on, IP man? How can anyone hate him?
@@ant_989 I'm a Feng main and imo, in 7 he is the prime example of a balanced character for me. A lot of good moves, but nothing too broken. Forces you to use a lot of different moves in a lot of different situations.
I just don't want to wait 2 games for Leeroy to be well balanced, if he comes back at all lol (I'd love to, his design is ace).
7>] poo
I bought tekken 7 yesterday, and its amazing. Picked up Steve, hella fun. The only thing i dont like is that the movement is a bit too slow, and everyones lows are bit a too crazy. Last time i played tekkn was tekken 3.
Movement a bit slow? BwuahHahahagahahahahahagagagagavavavavababahajkrofndiagas.
Sorry. Movement is faster than you may believe. Look up, for example, Eddy movement guides.
@@DekiTree yo noob movement is much more limited compared to past tekken games. What are you 10 years old and this is your first tekken? It's okay everybody started somewhere
Glad you are joining us my friend! I love this game, I came over from MK myself, never going back lol.
@@benefitizsexy Hello. I am 27 and Tekken 1 was my first Tekken. He asked a question and I answered it. I did not in any way say that it's faster or slower than previous titles. I just said it wasn't slow.
Now shut the fuck up. :) Thanks buddy!
@@DekiTree what criteria are you using to determine if the movement is fast or slow?
To me it's simple. They want money. DLC characters being easier and stronger.
There is so much they could do to make money though. Cosmetics. Themes, idk, whatever, but they take the cheap route.
12:06 I know this is a rant but Hwoarang's backlash startup is 28-30f move without counting the frames taken to go into a stance you know?
That's not "fast".
It's hard to whiff punish but the same could be said about the electric.
It's just an obnoxious over the top move that shouldnt exist like that
ok so why not remove the launcher property ?
I feel like Feng deserves more praise with his design for not having super moves, and instead being a character with a shitload of solid moves instead.
Solid SITUATIONAL moves. The player would still have to know WHEN to use these moves, and not just spam them all the time. Makes it soo much more satisfying
Feng is sucha amazing char..
I hope they don't make him cheap
@@rulethegamer Yeah, that's the idea.
Every move has a catch.
DB3 being launch punishable and giving you nothing on CH, D2 being -2 on hit, Slash kick being incredibly linear and short ranged, hopkick being incredibly poor, DF3+4 being a safe mid homing move that doesn't do anything on CH and has slow startup, His 3+4 from the ground having very short range, fish hook having short range, etc.
It really makes the character super fun to play, as you always have to consider every move in your kit and weigh the risk VS reward as opposed to brainless "super moves".
@@Gurpwnder don't forget feng's df1, neutral on block but 14 frames and no tracking.. if Feng uses df1 on hit into another df1 opponents can step easily although he's at crazy + frame so this forces you to use b4 after df1..
Feng's b3+4 can whiffs opponents moves but if they use moves like Jin's f4 you get hit..
This is what I call a real character
@@kain1144 along with Eliza right?
Sadly Tekken7 is not the only game having this problem of "over simplifying" look at the new GG Strive; I really don't understand the mindset of these devs trying to making the their games so easy to the point of making their games brain dead and why I hear you ask? Just to bring more brain dead players that can't handle moving their brain cells to understand the game they're playing.
Sad it's just sad man
Same thing in MK11 too. Dumbed down A LOT from mkX. Same thing you described. Even SfV i heard. Sad to see.
Guilty Gear Strive is still actually technical and fun though. It's a bit slower and you don't have three frames to do fourteen inputs for an air combo anymore, and I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing.
Did you actually play Strive? Game is still mechanically deep and has quite a bit of executional difficulty in both... well, execution, and also gameplay.
@@jays.6843 The removal of gatlings is still retarded.
@@SaikyoSamoyed I've played the old games but I'm waiting to see if the game will do any changes from the beta cuz the community were complaining how this game is "way to easy" then the their other games and my friend who was hyped and looking up to the game said that it's not looking good, I hope he's wrong because I'm thinking of going back to it
Leroy killed Tekken 7 for me. How the hell can you get severely nerfed 3 times and still be a ridiculously strong character? God. Damn.
"get good" doesn't work against Leroy, there is no getting good. Just guess better and get lucky. What a monstrous betrayal to the Tekken community.
Tekken died after this one, last good one is tag 2
he really did kill the game... its sad
Y’all are just trash 😂
Akuma got nerfed like three four times.
@@Rortaa i think the problem is leroy is so easy even a todler can use him while still being effective. But akuma takes more skill to use than him so i guess thats why people dont think akuma is as bad as him.
I do totally agree with your opinion of over simplification, characters are loosing their trademarks such as paul when in TTT2 you had to put a bit effort in his demolition man and ff 2,1, while now you just smash it, along with grab, movement, and oki nerfs. Honestly I enjoy a more sophisticated Tekken than this simplified version. Not to forget that what we have said so far doesn’t affect new comers and those who are below intermediate ( to a certain degree), who else want the entricate old Tekken back????
Funny how Tekken, the most reliant on movement and "spacing" now restricts it, while at the same time you have some movement Gods like Fahk, Alisa, Eliza, Zafina. There is absolute no reason to have exceptions in the game, this further shows how incompetent the balancing team is. Somewhere is S2 they nerfed Gigas's df1 to -9 on block, opponent closer on block, +7 to +4 on hit, 17 to 14 dmg. DURING THE SAME PATCH, the buffed Law's df1: opponent closer on hit, hitbox increased.
Leroy is always in advantage even when he is minus coz his perry works at -7 so even when he dose a move that is -7 or above he can just perry your counter atk and if u wait to bait the perry then he can just does not perry and regain his offense all over again. The character is so cheap and i have no idea how to fix it.
If there's one saving grace about dealing with Leroy's hellsweep, his oki from it isn't that good so I'm not in this endless loop after getting hit. I can remove a bit of the guessing Mainman mentions while on the ground. And iirc, Leroy doesn't have any of those flip over moves to force you to guess again.
Meanwhile, Fahk's hellsweep leaves you super close and he has better stuff to punish you for staying down. And had even more range than Leroy's. I don't like either character, but Fahk is way more annoying.
Depends i think, if youre a defensive player , fahk is worse , since he has range to break your defense , but if youre a offensive player , leroy is worse because of the parry and reversals
@@Gorecatto agaisnt the wall the hell sweep + orbital move will clip you if you even get up. And if you don't get up he can get you with his d2. It's a effed up 50/50. And even if you guess right and get up he can throw out one of his parries, re - wall splat you and steal your turn. It's jacked up. Nobody else in the game can do this
@@bluelion7342 Same can be said with fahkunram at the wall, but whats worse is that fahkunram has better block punish, better range, better movement, and IMO cheaper launches. Honestly the only thing he lacks is sugar and a cane.
It's about the range, Leroy has b4, and sweep...
B4 is a long range safe marking..
He has space control and u r basically forced to play without step against him..
Fauk is literally worse but here, you have MainMan still complaining about Leroy. The only thing about Leroy that was ever truly crazy was his one button Parry for everything. It should be like Geese Howard's command parry for high, mid and low. But most online Leroy players just mash B+2 after every move they do.
Games turning into mk11, a literal guessing game. cuz that game is simple to learn for everyone.
Well MK sell like cupcakes so...
the worse is that the execs making it happen are, like always, wrong.
casual gameplay doesn't bring sales, terminator and robocop do. or akuma and geese.
@@boitahaki what do the players win when the game selling well? I didnt know i got a share of the sales
@@FGirao If a game sells well you have a better chance of getting a sequel.
MK11 is a literally guessing game? MK11 is no where near as bad as MKX.
I'm all for nerfing or replacing moves that cover too many options.
Meanwhile ppl still call Jin OP and “the strongest character in the game”
Yeah what is up with that? I don't see anyone dominate with him at all
He has one of the lowest winrates online
@@MaccusFNS win rates online, this is because of shit players at low levels picking him cause he's the poster boy lol
Online win rates can only be taken at rank value not an overall value.
In S2 he was the strongest character
@@lrwkobra1 do you actually have numbers to support that?
I don't know if people are forgetting this but Leroy AFAIK is the only character in the cast that has a 12f Mid ch launcer.
-9 on block, slow whiff recovery, smallest range move in the game besides yoshi's flash. Do you want it to heal the opponent instead?
Ws 1,2 Kazuya is a 12f launcher, even ch confirmed
Ps the guys before is trolling if he's talking about leroy
@@leonardodormentoni7336 It's 13f
Exactly why should kazuya have a 13 f ws launcher? This tmm rant about every character he doesn’t like is annoying
But we want Tekken 8 knowing it will be scrubbier than 7. Now fighting games don't get more respectable, they always lower skill ceiling. Even GG series is lowering skill ceiling with GG2020. I bet even Virtua Fighter would get simplified if they released a new one
Tekken 8 will kill the legacy just like SFV killed the essence of Street Fighter. And only new kids who did not experience prior titles will be playing it because they never experienced any better.
That's how the fighting games industry works now i guess. Making the games too difficult doesn't help them gain money because not a lot of players will play it obviously, except the so-called hardcore and die-hard fighting game fans. By lowering the skill ceiling they can gain a lot of new players resulting in a massive profit. Personally i don't mind they lowering the skill ceiling. Old and more advanced player will still have the experience advantage and deeper understanding of the game. Especially in tekken, where there's a diverse rooster suitable for begginer, intermediate, and advance players.
I would agree, but you can't deny that Tekken wasn't doing very well before T7, one could argue that it actually saved the franchise, or else it would be much like Soul Calibur, or worse, Virtua Fighter.
I just wanna new virtua fighter...
I can't find anyone online on vf5fs
@@SokushitsuGoda Virtua Fighter 6 > Tekken 8
@@SokushitsuGoda why not doa6
I think most of us just glossed over Leroy's d/b+3,1+2 and b+4 after all the nerfs with the justification "He's got to have something to work with."
Yeah, like they neutered a lot of his moves and stances attacks. Aside from that +8 low into stance, I think he's pretty fine. With the huge nerf to ff+3, his approach tools are limited. Aside from his orbital, I believe his d/f 22 is his fastest normal hit mid launch, and it's launch punishable. So he has flaws now.
Yes, at this point people who complain about his moves are essentially complaining that he has moves.
@@DigiCount exactly, how can you complain about leroy when characters like akuma, steve, fak, paul etc in the game...?
Dark resurrection for life
Such a hype character where the fall was very hard and long.... hope they learned a thing of two about it before giving us new characters
It was the same with Feng in T5 and many other characters. Jin in T4 etc. Leroy is nowhere near as broken as they were. Now look what happened after 15 years. Feng is considered "good and respected, balanced" character. The same with Jin who is now considered "high skill" character while in T4 he was noobs pick of the week. It's the same with Leroy, they intended to make him broken. Give it 5-6 years and he'll become super popular.
@@ant_989 Dude ur talking about games that had no big competitive/online scene its different scenario
@@BoONeo keep in mind while a lot of people play competitively alot of people play for fun casually with friends, if everything in the game is technical af with no broken shit no one but dedicated players are gonna want to play the game
There’s way more than enough “broken” shit in this game for people who only play casually, many moves that have “obvious” weaknesses to people who play Tekken for 6+ months will always work against that casual audience and seem “hype” or “bRoKeN” so that’s not an issue at all, casual players love this game it’s so fun to mash
@@ibrushmyteethbeforeieatass1329 That's why easy characters exist. Katarina, Law, Eddy, Noctis, Hwoarang, etc. Characters that new players can pick up and have some success with, without giving them a big advantage against players of higher skill.
Remove all the tracking sweeps, and remove the +frames low pokes... Make them neutral at best... Then movement and fundamentals will be much more useful.
Also, remove +frames mids at the end of strings.
Just remove all moves
꧁ICYSREE꧂
😂😂
It’s good that Leroy is OP because instead of balancing they should make all characters have there own OP things like what mk 9 was every character was broken in that game
“What is this game?”
That question speaks so many volumes when it comes to Tekken 7
At this point i am seriously pissed at the game. Everyone is super op.
I initially got into tekken 7 because I was told its fairly balanced and I had a blast learning the game.
Now tho with each new character being stupid broken and easy I legit have no desire to play it anymore.
Its so sad that they need to make new characters OP just to sell them and make more money than normal.
Time to retreat to KI and get obliterated lol
If everyone is OP then the game is balanced😎
what was a good and balanced tekken game without this issue?
@@SickGamer45327 5dr
Well explained and exactly my words,many characters hellsweep is homing,i felt it bro
TMM I told you a few months back. In every new Tekken game the new characters built for the new system are always the strongest. Tekken 6 leo, Bob ,Miguel, and Lars, Raven, zafrina all had superior bound moves and more bound moves than the rest of the cast. Tekken 5 Lili and dragonouv way op Steve in Tekken 4. And them dumbing the game down. Welcome to the world of sfv legacy player's.
Dragunov was shit on release
Also zafina
What are you talkin about?
I rarely see Leroy in ranked. For me its always a Law, Paul, King, Bryan, and hwoarang in Purple ranks.
Everyone's still going to bitch
All of those you mentioned are more frequent for me too, I still hate that character though, win lose or draw it’s just an annoying ass matchup.
That's because most Leroys are TGP already.
I agree that Leroy was OP. Pre nerfed, he had an unseeable orbital heel that was minus 3 on block. That move alone told me that may also have more overstuffed moves.
Man I used to hate fighting law, but at this point running into him or Paul are such pl pleasant matchups after constant Leroy, Fahkumram, and julias
1:21 You got screwed, Literally. XD
Make movement stronger, keep the super attacks but make them all high execution. Remove tracking on all hellsweeps. And don't worry about casuals that much. Eddie, Ling, Asuka, Law, Lars are still too strong for noobs but not OP.
*Feeling pressured? Just start with d+3,2 and have fun!!*
-Leroy(probably)
The amount of new characters having parries/counters is kinda getting out of hand too.. especially with how easy it’s becoming to do so..
why did fahk need a parry? Hes a fuckin beast already now everyone needs a fuckin parry aparryntly
Every character in Tekken 8 should be like Lee - has defining strengths, has distinct weaknesses, doesn't have busted 'property-stacked' overloaded moves.
I still hate Leroy, won’t rematch him more than once...
I pretty sure fahkumram cheap ass whoops your ass as well
Leroy is pretty easy to play against
9Master_Mind3
From time to time, I’ve not yet fought a real good famm, but leroys a bitch ass fk boy character.
Yxng-_- Goku
Not fun to play against and I can’t even lab him without $$
@@yxng-_-goku Yeah this game is very easy at low levels if you spam
The people that talk about claudios moves jus know that it balances out with his generic moves being subpar, most of his best moves being highs, and he moves actually aren’t nearly as stupid as most people in the cast
and it’s funny how no one talks about how this game especially at a high level jus revolves around doing so bullshit move into guaranteed follow ups that usually give u pressure on wake up it’s so stupid
I’d never complain about a game having too many characters, but you make some good points sir.
To be fair, the thing with Kaz and DJ's hellsweeps tracking was that they either led to a vortex (Kaz) or juggle (DJ). There are other tracking sweeps in the game (like Bob, Leo, Leroy) that at least knock you away and reset the neutral. I think even you would admit that the comparison isn't 1:1. Overall, I agree with the premise though that there are too many moves that do too many things.
Sf has had this problem for years
New chars breaking the rules
SETHHH
Breaking the rules is fine as long as they balance it somehow.
@@lastburning Seth in Ultra 4 was NOT balanced.
He had Dhalsims heavies (super long) along with a teleport
A ToD from start of the round
Zangiefs Cyclone
Sonic Boom
Enhanced Shoryuken
Fast mediums that comboed into other attacks thay comboed into other attacks.
You could never touch him, and unless you're Akuma it's never your turn to attack
And btw, in my opinion, kazuya hellsweep should natively track both side, just simply watching the animation of the mouvement you can understand that...
that's a fighting game and it's to be balanced
that's why a move musn't cover too much defensive options
Maybe his sweep should high crush at certain frames similar to that of leo but I'm against left tracking
@@kain1144 yeah considering the animation of the move yeah we could accept a high crush at certain frames
I agree some of his points raised, well Tekken should be like Tekken 5.
A good example of the busted movement is King’s SS 3+4. The character literally does a wrestling drop step slide, but gets hit (counter hit launched) by attacks pointing in the opposite direction! It is a good innovation, which should be one of the most evasive moves in the game, but it just doesn’t work...
My voice isn't very loud. I still think Leroy is ridiculous. I don't feel like Fahkumram is slugish. I think he's one of the best characters. Leroy and Fahkumram are a concern for the direction of Tekken. As for Bob and Leo's hellsweep. Leo's has bad range. It's a back dash away from not clean hitting and you can launch Leo if they did the full move. Bob's hellsweep doesn't track like the buffed tracking hellsweeps of dj and Kazya. Bob and Leo's hellsweep aren't the best examples for what's being said here. They are good but they aren't like Leroy's hellsweep. The new hopkicks are to much imo. I wish they'd take more time to focus on older characters with out making them ridiculous.
It's just a simple example but for moves like Claudio's b+1 they could just make it -9 and have him not go back as far. Still a strong mid but players have to think more defensively after doing it. A lot of the super mids in t7 could be more normalized by taking them to -9 and other minor changes. That could be an easier fix other then looking at older moves and making them ridiculous. Armor King could be better with out giving him a crushing hopkick. They can buff legacy characters without making them more t7 style.
There's a lot they could do to balance it with out making it more brain dead. Hopefully Tekken 8 will be different and movement will go back to how it was.
(Edit)
King ff+1 -9
Paul's df2 no high crush or -10
Leroy should be reworked but that's asking to much out of what we've seen from bamco. Hopefully they'll actually do something about him in T8.
I really wish I could find the video of people playing Tag 1 during the days of T5 complaining about how pokes were useless and no one cared about a fast paced ground game anymore. They were talking about how great Tag 1 was in comparison with 5 and how you had to actually have skill, but in 5 everyone just went for launchers and having a strong poke game was barely a consideration.
They were worried about the direction of modern Tekken, because the strength of d+1 in T4 that people had railed against was so overpowered in that game that Namco went too far in fixing it by implementing the crush system. Now you could just throw out low crush launchers with impunity and eat pokes or jabs for breakfast.
Also, the universal low parry guaranteeing a launch (for some characters, a class 1) was doing more to promote this, and all the new characters seemed to have moves specifically intended to exploit those system changes. Tekken characters were rapidly losing their identity, and now every character was about doing a powerful juggle followed by a strong wall combo, and the opponent would only have a quarter of health left at that point. This made games less exciting and more about memorization and spamming launchers, setting the fate of each match down to a couple bad guesses.
Finally you did an real talk about tekken 7 problem since from S3 started👍 and player like us who noticed that problems we get banned on twitter and on various way if we do complaint about it because many like me do hard work on tekken for being pro over it but now fraustrated by this kind of trash gameplay of dlc specially season 3 characters
Good to know I’m not nuts. All the new characters in Tekken 7 feel like they’re anti-veteran. I’ve been having issues with this going back to Kazumi and Josie. Shaheen also feels awkward to fight if you approach him like you were playing Tag 2.
The only new-to-7 character I play as is Noctis and even he has stuff (d/b+1+2) that makes playing old-fashioned Tekken against him difficult, although moment to moment he tends to feel like a Tekken character.
How to counter Leroy ?
Don't rematch against him.
That's how i do it atleast.
u disconnect lmfao?
@@silhouettegaming7054
Nope.
I play one match and never rematch.
Let Leroy players spend all their time searching for matches untill they get bored.
It occurred to me watching this that I find it super fun to play against legacy characters but new characters aren’t. I’ve played online and rematched bryans, kazuyas, steves and other legacy characters and 10 games in a row is super fun. There’s a lot of mind games and they don’t have one move that does everything. I just don’t get those mind games from katarina, fahkumram or leroy
I uninstalled T7 recently. All those crushing hop kicks or db 2s which high crush, broken hitboxes on some chars and since at least season three it happens regularly that random side switches happen because of hitbox problems. You want to do a wall combo and suddenly the char glitches five meters behind you and then you lose the round due to it, a bug an inconsistency.
The game had weaknesses when it came out. I played T3 - 6 with my sisters and friends. But no one really wanted to play T7 with me because the music sucks, the new chars mainly suck, the stages are uninteresting, the character endings are completely pointless and not even a little bit funny.
But the gameplay alone made me stay with it. Now with a lot of pushback on moves, a lot of homing and the boring new jack of all trades (master of none) chars it has become too much for me to enjoy the game. I'm not usually someone that complains a lot. If I don't like a game I just don't (continue to) play it. But I grew up with Tekken. The only series that comes near to this may be Monster Hunter or Pokémon for me. It's just so sad to see your favorite games suffer from bad decisions, iterations, lack of content, deviation, or just bad patches.
Yeah Tekken 7 got no appeal to casuals and now its so unbalanced that it is losing appeal with the hardcore players as well...
Getting hit by Jin's homing and fairly long range hellsweep and hearing "but it slow tho" despite it's damage in open ground is 35-40% of your HP desensitized me to Leroy's hellsweep. legacy character btw
Exactly but he’s constantly complaining about a he’ll sweep that you can easily block. Dude nobody even plays Leroy anymore because of how hard they nerfed him. I main Leroy and you don’t see me saying nerf Kazuya all damn day, i personally think he’s just being bias at this point.
@@Wavy_Godd96 I think Leroy may still be a problem, but I find it absurd he thinks Fahk is okay as well.
Pierre Matthews-Martin does kazuya have a homing hellsweep? safe mid launcher thats plus on block? insane df1 range? excellent low to mid pokes? a godly parry? a pimp cane? yeah you are an idiot for thinking kazuya even comes close to the borderline op shit leroy has
I seriously don't know how tmm can defend Fahk
He plays Fahkumram but he doesn't play Leroy. Simple as that.
@@Sandartic Yep. He just needs something to rant about.
@@Sandartic that's not it at all. He explained to you the difference. If you play both characters it's easy to see. He played Leroy enough and played fahk enough. That's good enough to know what he's talking about.
And I agree with him. The game is braindead now with these moves.
Fakh is strong but his frames are not OP.
Finishes alot of his moves in minus frames which allows you opportunity to restart you offense and take control of the match.
Its because he's someone who plays the character, you can see he's started to change his opinion as he's had to fight more of them
this is no simple matter..sure tracking hellsweeps are pretty strong in new chars,however there are things new chars lack in comparison with the mishimas that are not referred at all
if ppl had to choose for new chars between braindead hopkicks/tracking hellsweeps or wavedash ewgf/sweep pressure they would choose the mishima style
and if that ever happened ppl would bitch about mishimas not being unique
the rest of the cast had to have something to compensate for lack of wavedash pressure(in terms of actual game balance,disregarding the execution requirements as it seems),and it was inevitable to come to this,plus bamco took advantage of the game becoming beginner-friendly to milk some more $$$
and actually there s no point to think about this at all,excluding the leroy disaster 6 months ago, it s proven that players with better movement/fundamentals will get a better win rate in most cases,and it really shows in tournaments as well. sure,there hasnt been much mishima success lately in tournaments (before the pandemic),but let s be real,qudans won s1 with dj,knee in s2 won most tourneys (even if he lost in the semis of twt) using dj as well,mishimas are not underplayed and they re not weak,especially kaz and dj are broken af if executed at an optimal lvl,and most asians can wavedash for eternity even in their sleep,so if the new chars didnt have something good in their kit ppl would just play mishimas and nothing else and that would be even worse for the game
Dude you on crack, it takes a normal player years to reach high ranks with mishimas while leroys have reached those in few weeks, they are not comparable at all.
Bro I can’t even get a game in t7, wait 15 minutes get a game “communication to opponent has been lost “ wait another 10 minutes and same shit
Xbox is pretty instant for me. What do you play on?
Tekken on ps4 has been fucking up, same thing for me so I assume he's playing on ps4.
I get the same and when I do get a match it's always 3 bar or less
Life was Given to us ps4
Kenji yeah ps4 I got the old ps2 out to play some tekken 4 and have been having a lot more fun
One big thing in this game is, that you basically can step some moves, but not with all characters and cant do staple combos on some characters... you already have a nerf if you play a "normal" size character vs big or female size characters like... akuma?!?!?
Ah and we have the bears with legs 1 meter behind the back and fahk with no stomach and a little head.
Leroy is ip-man.. he is undefeatable, case closed 😎
Periodt. Wing chun is designed take on multiple enemies why wouldnt he be strong tf lol
Apparently they don’t fucking see that point, they want Leroy just deleted. This guy is annoying with how much he rants on Leroy, like Fahkuhram is the strongest character & he’s actually easy af! I play him & ive done some amazing things with him.
I would like to see Leroy with Bryan-like inputs -> fb 2 1+2 or qcb 3 1+2 would be so much more fair. But I bet Namco listens to this - they changed Fahks hitbox and reversed buffs on mishimas.
There will always be guessing in Tekken, lol.
Obviously, but what he's saying is that Tekken is fundamentally a game of rock-paper-scissors, and that newer characters have broken that rule.
Tekken the mixup slot machine.
And there will allways be war, hence we should never stop any wars?
@@Kjernekar duh
@@BorkBigFrighten2 Broken it how? Because they have tracking mids and tracking lows? Hyperbole does nothing for this argument.
Yeah, this is a problem. For a guy like me who sucks at block punishing beyond belief I have invested in movement and wiff punishing. It rly Hard against characters like u have stated
Bro just throw out the character..... An try again or Dont even bring him back just get rid of him
They might just have to completely rework him but keep the op sweep
you think they will tho? i think hes still super popular
@@silhouettegaming7054 I have no idea bro. Here's to hoping
@@NikosWorld123 i like ur style haha, i literally played him like 3 separate times today-_-
@@silhouettegaming7054 crap that sucks how many times did you get parried 😵😵😵
Imagine a fahkumrahm main ranting about leroy, but with that being said he is absolutely right the guest characters and new characters do have a bit of a leg up on the legacy characters
U missed the point,it's primarily about Leroy's sweep that's marking..
Hwoarangs and Fahs is locked either behind their stances or FC
Fahk is much easier to beat then Leroy
I'm starting to hate modern Tekken.
yeh. i stopped playin because its more bloated and busted then tt2 was lmao
I don't even care anymore at this point I've stop playing this game completely since fahkumram was released.
Ok, someone going to take your spot and everything going to be the same man, sorry
yeah right, people are now doing this in mass no.
even i've been experiencing ranked mach droughts where no one is there to play
Tekken has always been cheesy, gimmicky and unbalanced.
You probably don't play it for fun
Yes and no,just because meter was busted in s2 doesn't mean it wasn't the best tekken has ever been.
@@shenelljohnson74 I do.thats the point. I love all that about Tekken
@@gamwpanagia I'm taking about every Tekken. Have u played the first game ?
Yes, Leroy needs the d3,2.
So basicly its same with hwoarang but noone talks about him
Hwoarang takes a while to learn how to actually utilize his moveset, Leroy is absolutely braindead
Other than backlash i don`t really see anything completely broken tbh...maybe d3,4 but thats about it...Flamingo spam is easily countered.
@@LimitlessPotential12 He actually has some really cheesy flowcharts that mashy hwoarangs do, like flamingo into his grab, his sweep, his launcher that crushes dickjabs he can be cheap af
Hwoarang sweep is locked behind the stance at least
@@BoONeo that's for people that actually know how to use him Leroy you just pick him up and you already know everything
Slowly turning into Tekken revolution
Honestly I would trade every homing move Katarina has (both of them) for Kazuya's d/f+2
I can't stress that you need to check out the side step system in Virtua Fighter, way more balanced and effective than Tekken's
True.
I never stopped talking about LeRoy. Still broken. I laughed as all the LeRoy’s steadily dropped from god to Fujin when they had to play a little bit of Tekken after the nerfs. But he’s still SS tier.
Not anymore
With the high amount of tracking and ease of use nowadays, perhaps the developers are now aiming to centralize a variety of characters that force the opponent to play in a 2-D like environment to lower the barrier of entry as well as to possibly introduce 2-D players into tekken from games such as street fighter…at the cost of the existing player base.
Perhaps this is but a taste of things to come in the future.
..but I could be sprouting nonsense.
Mainman great video, as i always say when youre right youre extremely right. You said some things that struck home with me too hard. That aspect on reduced movement, it hits home so hard its not even funny, Adrian, i'll be frank, EVERYTHING tracks these days, every single thing! Even strings reallign automatically. You step the first hit, the second hit clips u and u end up taking the whole string counter hit! Youre too right here, too too right, the game has cut down character movelists to 3-5 "do it all" moves and to make matters worse those moves keep getting buffed and buffed to unreasonable proportions.I will be honest bro, the reason so many players were drawn to T7 is because its aesthetically pleasing and easy to play. HOWEVER, Im sure there are ways to make this game a soft landing ground without killing the fundamentals that have been in the game for decades, I mean the guys at the top are turning this game into a 2d game with all the damn homing ! Youre scared to move because at any point you get clipped by a strong move which by tekken rules should be weak to SS so u just stick to one axis. These days i find myself just moving back because any attempt to sidestep and i get a mouth full of dirt. I think you should watch speedkicks' rant on this topic where he says " The tekken devs dont get tekken" I mean tekken is meant to be a perpetual balancing act between risk and reward but somehow Akuma has an unseeable , plus on block , homing , low launcher...... make that make sense to me ! I have to stay up all night labbing characters i meet once a month only to get into ranked and have all their moves clip me with 360 degrees tracking, I share your fear for this game,their incessant attempts to please casuals are ruining tekken.
to put in perspective for you, do you know how koreans are blocking hellsweeps now ? Theyre crouching and reacting to the mid... do you realise how fucking counter-intuitive that is???? youre basically forced to open yourself up in order to defend properly ! I havent seen a hellsweep sidestep in ages! No movement ? No tekken! Welcome Tekken V everyone!
That's why I say Tekken 4 remains my favorite. It's the perfect mix of classic and new material.
😎😎 leroy is awesome 👌 i love wing chun. and huge fan of leroy smith. i played with leroy also after getting huge nerfs and i feel the power of leroy while playing with it🤭.
I was playing against a friend that was playing Leroy and he did the hellsweep non stop and I kept trying to sidewalk thinking I didn't time it right ¿what a game uh?
You suck obviously if he kept spamming you with it lol
Some months ago I got.into.a discussion about SFV when people were complaining about all the guessing. I said back then that Tekken is full of guessing as well but no one complains about it. Looks like people have caught on.
This started with tekken 5. They stopped making full new characters and just made the short moves list have OP moves to make new characters relevant.
The sad part is the game is still difficult to pick up. So the casuals still have a steep learning curve, meanwhile the core of community has to deal with over simplification of the game for the newer players or casuals. I've been personally playing for a little under a year. Not the most experienced player or anything , but I can say I didnt understand this concept until I got more into the game. Over simplification for one portion of the community isn't a good thing. Tekken is supposed to be complex. That's the allure. At least it was for me. I am with you main man, at this juncture... I am worried about tekken 8.
There is a slight difference between Leroy and a Kazyua hell sweep. Kaz probably has the most consistent wall combos between Bob, Leroy, and leo, because of the spin it gives. Kazyua is right next to you with his godly Oki with ff4 and ground hitting d/b 4. Leroy hits you half way across the stage and applying Oki is pretty much impossible. So Kazyua has better Oki and the most consistent wall spalt out of all the hell sweeps, excluding maybe DVJ.
You're able to see the strength in the newer characters, but can't see the strength in your own. I'm not saying that a few more of Leroy's lows can't be tweaked, but you ignoring things in the argument.
7:50 if Kazyua does F4 on block or d/b4(which are not hard moves to connect), his d/f2 beats 3 options, attacking, stepping, crouching... So situations where a single attack beats multiple options have existed. Bad critiques.
just block and -12 punish the df2 kappo
Stargazing Embers kaz f4 you can easily backdash away from, db4 is slow and can be easily read blocked and punished, and df2 is not only unsafe but also has slower frames compared to other mid homings and df1s and 2s
@@patrickm.7084 d/b 4 is unseeable. What are you talking about
@@patrickm.7084 wut?
db4 is 20f fast if you can easily read and block it because its slow to you then you should be entering tournaments and fucking up everyone by block their lows.
and df2 is i14 which is fast for a homing move. obviously it has to be unsafe because its a 14frame mid ch launcher. the homing property is an extra bonus.
I feel the same way about how broken law is
Not really a tekken player so I won't comment on the balance of the game itself, BUT as for your point about guessing; pretty much all fighting games are guessing when the gamestate could be described as "in pressure/defending". Every fighting game has unseeable attacks where you have to guess or have godlike reactions to defend against. The game then, must choose who must guess. If the game gives too many or too powerful defensive options then it is the offensive player who has to guess. I presume that this is classic tekken, where the movement options are so oppressive to the offensive player that they must either choose really safe options or make a hard read to ever hit the opponent. The other side is defensive guessing where you must guess to get out of pressure. Unless you make every non jab move as slow as snake edge, there will always be guessing. However instead of braindead mid or low mixups, it's braindead sidestep and backdash.
This is an oversimplification of a complex topic, so this word isnt gospel. I'm sure tekken fans are furiously typing about how the offensive player needing to choose between 8-15 different moves depending on what movement option they think the opponent will do isn't guessing, but I think this illustrates my point.
Yo FGC does Fahk has the most single hit launchers? I mean he has b 3, ff 1+3, bf 4, 3+4, and ff 4 (on CH gives full combo), as well as crouching df 4 (on CH). It was a thought I had. I don’t play nearly enough chars to determine this but it seems Fahk has quite a bit.
idk why everyone is complaining about leroy's homing hellsweep tbh. why would you even want to step a hellsweep? just block it and you get a launch.
@TMM I agree with all your points except execution being a factor to legitimate something being the way it is or being the reason something is not okay.
Imagine Leroys busted hellsweep being tied to a hard input, it would not make his design better. I would argue that it would make his design even worse since the move is still broken, but now you're more often fighting the controller rather than your opponent.
I think its okay to generally simplify inputs, but its not okay to make the interactions between players brain dead or any less deep. You are fighting your opponent, not the controller.
I know execution was rarely a point in your rant, you were mainly talking about lost depth due to busted moves covering too many options, which I 100% agree with, but I wanted to post my own irrelevant opinion anyway, sorry.
While i agree that leroy would be stupid even with execution, i dont agree with that execution doesnt matter. Even in top play execution matters. Imagine if you for example could tju or df2 pewgf, by just holding f+2...
You think like me. Just frames are just execution for its own sake. It's outdated design. The real game happens between the players. You should not hinder that by making the players fight the controls also.
See, the point is, you don't have to do it, like the 3-pointer in basketball...
if you do play the character and love him, you would play even with the execution
but i do agree that leroy would be busted even if he had execution
Im learning to main Jin and one of the people in chat mentioned it, I agree 100%
Jin's hopkick is probably the worst I've encountered, added the delay when performing a u/f+4 combo execution, ONTOP of Jin's high execution barrier. I love jin but damn, learning the fundamentals is hard enough already.
As someone who is a fan of a large character roster (because I seem to be the type to just wander endlessly trying to find THAT ONE character that fits me best and never really finding it but settling on a close few) I can see how it invites bloating in the way it's stated to, but well since I'm for it I don't really feel I have a right to say much for it. I will say though...I certainly can feel the weight of these "super moves". The idea the game teaches is that moves that cover so many options or are just really good, should have some kind of drawback if they fail in some form or way, yet I have seen a select handful of these moves with almost no way to punish or counter a failed use unless you just have that one character in the entire roster practically made to counter moves of that type. I don't believe that's the way it should be. All things have a downside in nature, really strong moves should be no different, it's what keeps them from being abused and spammed as bad as they are online, you give a move no weakness and incredible strengths, and we have Leroy on launch, just birthing hundreds of Tekken God primes on day one.
I will never forget that one instance just before the first patch for Leroy where I was turned into a believer of why he was so bad when he magically managed to get out of combo free card me and punish me for a successful combo with his then broken parry startup time.
Like...imagine that for a moment. A Josie, a combo oriented character, needs her strings right? On launch Leroy? Forget about it. You are reduced to just poking and never taking risks and praying he doesn't spam the hellsweep nonstop, because Josie does not have any lows fast enough to contend with a large variety of the roster in a low game. So just like Tmm is apparently still saying as a kazuya player, some characters have the ability to not simply counter other characters completely, but utterly Rob them of their very playstyle, and when you are using a character that relies on at least some utilization of that playstyle, then what are you supposed to do? You just lost 70% of your combat potential in one or two moves.
So my take on it is, sure, keep these strong moves that cover a lot of options, but give them adequate and feasible weaknesses that will keep them from being milked for all they are worth.
despite the complaints there is still variety in high level play. at least we are seeing different characters win majors. that keeps me playing the game.