Hey everyone - Arthur's comment got me thinking that I should post a general comment here about the video. I've had to make some changes in my life, one of them not spending hours upon hours editing dual cameras, fitting audio together, etc. So going forward it will just be one camera angle for ProPractice, rather than the dual camera angles. Hopefully the camera upgrade (it's a $4500 DSLR camera) and angle being higher does help a bit with the clarity. Also, I have so many requests stacking up, that in the time it takes me to edit one video with dual cameras, I could have recorded 2 or 3 additional videos, so I hope to be able to record ProPractice more consistently this way. I appreciate your understanding as I make this change going forward. I'm very grateful to all of my viewers, supporters, and friends here on the channel. I wish you all the best in your piano studies!
I understand your pain. Have you thought of hiring a local high school intern to do your editing? Not sure of your budget or whether the time sink is picking when to switch between cameras versus the actual mechanics of editing, but could be a win-win. Cheers!
This etude is a killer. I've first played it back in 1998 using 14-25, then switched to 13-25. I picked it up again a little over 10 years ago and came up with this genious 24-15 fingering as well which just feels much much easier to coordinate. Recently I've tried 13-24 which works better for me now than 14-25 and 13-25. It still feels like playing thirds though rather than a trill. The disadvantage of 24-15 is the 4th bar where you're forced to either stick to the inversion using 24-15-24-13 which is a bit awkward or change to the traditional fingering instead for that bar. I think it really is just a mental block and mainly has to do with how the left and right side of the brain work together. For example if you're able to freely converse with other people while playing piano without getting brainblocked and screwing up the coordination, rhythms, etc. then this etude will probably be much easier for you to play. The son of my former piano teacher is great at jazz and also doesn't have this mental block. I made him try a third trill and he played it with the traditional fingering making it sound like an actual trill. I was frustrated that day.
It's encouraging to hear that you also find this etude extremely challenging, even more so than some flashier pieces. I have spent a year on this piece, I watch videos of chopin competitors at 0.25X speed and copied every single variation of fingering, arm and wrist movement etc, and although I am finally able to perform the piece, I just thought I was incompetent because it took sooo long. But thank you for your invaluable advice, at the end of the day I still love this piece and I'm excited to perform it again in a month.
Closing your eyes in order to feel the keys better is a brilliant idea because you can cut off that visual information and open up more room to take in other sensory information (touch and sound). Really cool tactic!
My breakthrough on this came while translating Zimmermann’s Encyclopedie du pianists-compositeur. He gave an entire table on various fingerings for chromatic double thirds and suggested that you go through all of them to figure out which one best fits your hands. I found the ones that best fit me here, and if you’re lucky enough to get a hold on the Zimmermann method, I would recommend it.
Thank you so much for taking the time to record this helpful tutorial. May I suggest you also use an overhead camera so viewers can better see what you are doing, and which fingers you are referencing, when you demonstrate?
The key is very very slow practice. Supposedly someone walked in on Rachmaninoff practicing this etude and it was so slow that they couldn't even recognize the piece. He knew the value of slow practice
The first yellow book is the one I have. I noticed some stuff on the fingering that do not seems right. What I did is just create what is best for me. This is the most difficult piece I have played so far followed by Op.25 No.11.
the kind of inverted fingering is easier because you don't alternate fingers, when you're doing third trills like D#F# and EG, the most natural fingering is 23 14
I find with the opening 3rds (I use 13-25) that if I imagine the 3 and 2 as being an inner voice trill starting from above that I can then just let the 1 and 5 sort of fall with the corresponding 2 and 3. Weird approach but works well for me since I usually trill with 2 and 3 or 1 and 3.
As a self taught pianist who is also trying to play this...devilish!! I always jumble up the double trills and I don’t know if this is the fingering to glissando up but I thought it was 1/3, 2/4, 1/5, 2/4, 1/3, 1/4 and so on. I tried it and it didn’t seem to scale up as I hoped. (Sigh) Maybe someday
Josh: "prefiero tocar el concierto de Rachmaninoff que la presión de tocar este estudio" jajajaja.... Hermoso estudio y una tortura para las manos. Excelente Josh gracias por compartir tu experiencia
I can play the trill at the beginning with full control and fast speed with 31 42, and honestly, I can't play it as well and precise with any other fingerings, that I tried, even though I understand that 41 52 is actually what Chopin suggests. Interestingly, I can't seem to do the same trill with the left hand with same control. I suggest trying to learn to do the same kind of trill with the left hand, I can't reach the same speed I reach with the right hand for now.
If you look at Dang Thai Son's interpretation of this piece (Chopin competition 1980 I think) you'll notice his hands looks robotic every finger is at the right place at the right moment, that litteraly amazes me
Thank you the fingering recommendations and helpful tips Josh!! Your videos are invaluable to me. :) Not sure if you're taking requests... but you should totally make a video addressing the problems with the Fifth Finger in piano technique, or how to avoid rhythm traps??
Just on its own, the 4-5 finger trill seems difficult but when the bottom fingers are working at the same time as the top fingers it forces the hand to get rid of any compensation thereby making the trill feel easier and less sloppy. This seems illogical doesn't it! Some people prefer 3-5 on top instead of 4-5. Doing both will help. I think a lot depends on finger length and ratio.
Arthur Hu hi Arthur - thanks for your support of past videos. I've had to make some changes in my life, one of them not spending hours upon hours editing dual cameras, fitting audio together, etc. So going forward it will just be one camera angle for ProPractice. Hopefully the camera upgrade (it's a $4500 DSLR camera) and angle being higher does help a bit with the clarity. Have a great week my friend
the reason why 13 24 is really hard is because it's a completely different movement to 24 15. most people never even encounter it for a very long time, i don't know when you started learning and i'm not exactly in a position of being an expert, but for example on Mendelssohn's op 14 rondo capriccioso there are 14 23 trills that are actually very easy in comparison to something like thirds etude, with the normal fingering anyway. since for most people this'll just be a new movement entierely, it will require a lot of very slow practice to make sure that your hand realizes that it can move those fingers independently
Yeah, I've come across the thirds trills in the chopin grand polonaise and have played then easily with the 23 14 fingering where you can rock it out with the wrist. 13 24 is incredibly hard for me to get fast tho.
Seems like prelude 14,octavaetyd,ESPECIALLY op10 nr2 is good before THIS,but also Rubinsteins touch-tecnic(as he showed Pollini)can be good with fingers ALMOST NOT TAKE AWAY FINGERS FROM NOTE so l get much ride of hardness to Chopineasy
HOW would you find the Rach 3 easier? last page of 1st movement has some whacked double note trills spanning more than an octave, and third movement has that spot with 4 quick thirds in both hands simulaneously... lol also there's the obvious fact that learning 30 000 notes might take a while, and this etude can be memorized in one sitting
You played the complete set at age 16? That is extremely impressive
mw11stuff yes, it was intense, and of course not all are super fast, but it was a life-changing experience both musically and technically.
@@joshwrightpiano So humbled and insanely polished at what you do!
Hey everyone - Arthur's comment got me thinking that I should post a general comment here about the video. I've had to make some changes in my life, one of them not spending hours upon hours editing dual cameras, fitting audio together, etc. So going forward it will just be one camera angle for ProPractice, rather than the dual camera angles. Hopefully the camera upgrade (it's a $4500 DSLR camera) and angle being higher does help a bit with the clarity. Also, I have so many requests stacking up, that in the time it takes me to edit one video with dual cameras, I could have recorded 2 or 3 additional videos, so I hope to be able to record ProPractice more consistently this way. I appreciate your understanding as I make this change going forward. I'm very grateful to all of my viewers, supporters, and friends here on the channel. I wish you all the best in your piano studies!
I understand your pain. Have you thought of hiring a local high school intern to do your editing? Not sure of your budget or whether the time sink is picking when to switch between cameras versus the actual mechanics of editing, but could be a win-win. Cheers!
This etude is a killer. I've first played it back in 1998 using 14-25, then switched to 13-25. I picked it up again a little over 10 years ago and came up with this genious 24-15 fingering as well which just feels much much easier to coordinate. Recently I've tried 13-24 which works better for me now than 14-25 and 13-25. It still feels like playing thirds though rather than a trill. The disadvantage of 24-15 is the 4th bar where you're forced to either stick to the inversion using 24-15-24-13 which is a bit awkward or change to the traditional fingering instead for that bar.
I think it really is just a mental block and mainly has to do with how the left and right side of the brain work together. For example if you're able to freely converse with other people while playing piano without getting brainblocked and screwing up the coordination, rhythms, etc. then this etude will probably be much easier for you to play. The son of my former piano teacher is great at jazz and also doesn't have this mental block. I made him try a third trill and he played it with the traditional fingering making it sound like an actual trill. I was frustrated that day.
Wow that is incredible insight haha
Ok ok so what fingering do you reccomend
It's encouraging to hear that you also find this etude extremely challenging, even more so than some flashier pieces. I have spent a year on this piece, I watch videos of chopin competitors at 0.25X speed and copied every single variation of fingering, arm and wrist movement etc, and although I am finally able to perform the piece, I just thought I was incompetent because it took sooo long. But thank you for your invaluable advice, at the end of the day I still love this piece and I'm excited to perform it again in a month.
Ah my ultimate nightmare Etude
TheGreenPianist me too :)
Josh Wright haha I can see that
Ivan Babichev haha good luck with it :)
Ivan Babichev Hey, how is it going so far?
@@thegreenpianist7683 hi i think he gave up
Great performer ...and great person )) Wish you good luck . Have a nice day!
Dimitris Spiridonidis thanks so much Dimitris!
This piece is like two flight of the bumblebees one on top of the other
Yes, and the left hand is extremely hard as well!
Closing your eyes in order to feel the keys better is a brilliant idea because you can cut off that visual information and open up more room to take in other sensory information (touch and sound). Really cool tactic!
My breakthrough on this came while translating Zimmermann’s Encyclopedie du pianists-compositeur. He gave an entire table on various fingerings for chromatic double thirds and suggested that you go through all of them to figure out which one best fits your hands. I found the ones that best fit me here, and if you’re lucky enough to get a hold on the Zimmermann method, I would recommend it.
I love this full tutorial lol one of these days it's actually gonna be the full tutorial
Thank you so much for taking the time to record this helpful tutorial. May I suggest you also use an overhead camera so viewers can better see what you are doing, and which fingers you are referencing, when you demonstrate?
Nightmares!!! AAHH D: Can't sleep after practicing this Etude..
The moving thirds are easier but the double trills are hard and confusing
The key is very very slow practice. Supposedly someone walked in on Rachmaninoff practicing this etude and it was so slow that they couldn't even recognize the piece. He knew the value of slow practice
The first yellow book is the one I have. I noticed some stuff on the fingering that do not seems right. What I did is just create what is best for me. This is the most difficult piece I have played so far followed by Op.25 No.11.
the kind of inverted fingering is easier because you don't alternate fingers, when you're doing third trills like D#F# and EG, the most natural fingering is 23 14
He'd rather play Rach 3 than this etude... Wow, holy shit this must be a beast (I'm not a pianist).
I find with the opening 3rds (I use 13-25) that if I imagine the 3 and 2 as being an inner voice trill starting from above that I can then just let the 1 and 5 sort of fall with the corresponding 2 and 3. Weird approach but works well for me since I usually trill with 2 and 3 or 1 and 3.
How do you play the thumb to thumb movement for the bottom part of the chromatic scales?
As a self taught pianist who is also trying to play this...devilish!! I always jumble up the double trills and I don’t know if this is the fingering to glissando up but I thought it was 1/3, 2/4, 1/5, 2/4, 1/3, 1/4 and so on. I tried it and it didn’t seem to scale up as I hoped. (Sigh) Maybe someday
Try doing 1/3, 2/4, 1/5, 2/3, 2/4, 1/3 instead.
Josh: "prefiero tocar el concierto de Rachmaninoff que la presión de tocar este estudio" jajajaja.... Hermoso estudio y una tortura para las manos. Excelente Josh gracias por compartir tu experiencia
Thank you for uploading this!! This is a lot of help! Would you mind keeping doing other Chopin etudes? Some of op.10?
soo yun kim absolutely. Working on finishing all of the Etudes for the end of the year. I have about half of them up on my channel already.
@@joshwrightpiano hi! How about the three new studies as well? Especially for #1 in f minor because the whole piece comprises of just polyrhythms.
I can play the trill at the beginning with full control and fast speed with 31 42, and honestly, I can't play it as well and precise with any other fingerings, that I tried, even though I understand that 41 52 is actually what Chopin suggests. Interestingly, I can't seem to do the same trill with the left hand with same control. I suggest trying to learn to do the same kind of trill with the left hand, I can't reach the same speed I reach with the right hand for now.
Thanks! I'll try that out :)
If you look at Dang Thai Son's interpretation of this piece (Chopin competition 1980 I think) you'll notice his hands looks robotic every finger is at the right place at the right moment, that litteraly amazes me
Thank you the fingering recommendations and helpful tips Josh!! Your videos are invaluable to me. :)
Not sure if you're taking requests... but you should totally make a video addressing the problems with the Fifth Finger in piano technique, or how to avoid rhythm traps??
Very well done! Great presentation Josh! Keep up the good work!!!
Christopher Brent thank you Christopher!
Just on its own, the 4-5 finger trill seems difficult but when the bottom fingers are working at the same time as the top fingers it forces the hand to get rid of any compensation thereby making the trill feel easier and less sloppy. This seems illogical doesn't it! Some people prefer 3-5 on top instead of 4-5. Doing both will help. I think a lot depends on finger length and ratio.
Would we have the overhead camera angle as usual if we actually buy the full version?
Arthur Hu hi Arthur - thanks for your support of past videos. I've had to make some changes in my life, one of them not spending hours upon hours editing dual cameras, fitting audio together, etc. So going forward it will just be one camera angle for ProPractice. Hopefully the camera upgrade (it's a $4500 DSLR camera) and angle being higher does help a bit with the clarity. Have a great week my friend
um... maybe it would be better to capture the keyboard?
the reason why 13 24 is really hard is because it's a completely different movement to 24 15. most people never even encounter it for a very long time, i don't know when you started learning and i'm not exactly in a position of being an expert, but for example on Mendelssohn's op 14 rondo capriccioso there are 14 23 trills that are actually very easy in comparison to something like thirds etude, with the normal fingering anyway. since for most people this'll just be a new movement entierely, it will require a lot of very slow practice to make sure that your hand realizes that it can move those fingers independently
Yeah, I've come across the thirds trills in the chopin grand polonaise and have played then easily with the 23 14 fingering where you can rock it out with the wrist. 13 24 is incredibly hard for me to get fast tho.
How about the right hand in the f major nocturne lol
Seems like prelude 14,octavaetyd,ESPECIALLY op10 nr2 is good before THIS,but also Rubinsteins touch-tecnic(as he showed Pollini)can be good with fingers ALMOST NOT TAKE AWAY FINGERS FROM NOTE so l get much ride of hardness to Chopineasy
Falcwings
Falconwingstecnic as to shake wet hands all The time or sometimes
HOW would you find the Rach 3 easier? last page of 1st movement has some whacked double note trills spanning more than an octave, and third movement has that spot with 4 quick thirds in both hands simulaneously... lol
also there's the obvious fact that learning 30 000 notes might take a while, and this etude can be memorized in one sitting
I also prefer 4,1/5,2
gosh, from C to F
Your hands are h u g e
first
Gyorgy Cziffra: ruclips.net/video/-crYvMLIjJk/видео.html
I wish you could get to the point quicker.
I'm 11 and I can reach an 11th... is that big?
Yes I am not proud of my RUclips name.
im 24 can reach a 24th, not sure if this is big either