I think Moky has too much experience playing Zain in friendlies and not enough playing Zain in tournament tbh Zain in friendlies freestyles a lot to figure shit out, he's constantly experimenting with anything and is taking mental notes about anything that "feels" right or is replicable Zain in tournament coalesces all of that data from friendlies into the ultimate Marth flowchart and only freestyles when in a genuinely new situation. It may still look like freestyling to some people simply because they see him chain things they haven't seen him do before, but that's mostly because he's made his flowchart so extremely expansive I'm not trying to exaggerate here--I definitely don't think Zain is as purely flowcharty as Wizzrobe. But I definitely think he should be a LOT closer to Swift on that graph.
S tier - Polish, Moky, Zain, Wizzy, Current Johnny A Tier - Mang0, Ginger, Magi, Current Hbox, Sora, Leffen, Llod in his doctor photo B Tier - Cody, Aklo, Current n0ne, Axe, Lucky, Slug, (Maybe) HugS, Pipsqueak, Shroomed C Tier - aMSa, Spark, Hax, Kodorin, BobbyBB, Fiction D tier - Moky after his hair has been in a beanie for too long
@@il100374 he’s still clearly the fastest and most aggressive falcon. Mango calmed down a lot too but he’s still insane to watch. The sick stuff s2j does is just less flashy than n0ne
players with unrestricted play styles are usually way more flexible than others I personally play unga bunga aggressive without a flowchart in mind optimal and saucy movement
I don't think ginger is defensive at all, I think he's only slightly less aggressive than mang0. People mistake taking and holding stage for being defensive. You have to be aggressive to take stage, and holding stage is inherently pressuring. I think the average melee player decides who is aggressive based on who is short hopping towards the other person more, but they don't realize that you can short hop towards someone defensively. What I mean by that is, you can read that they're going to try to move forward, and then short hop and put an attack at that spot. That's not aggressive, that's just zoning. At the same time, when someone is out of stage and you are holding stage and preventing them from getting out of the corner, you are pressuring them because that's a very scary position to play, and lots of people will spam rolls, full hops, yolo shffls etc to try to get out. All of these are defensive options in that they're attempts to move from a disadvantaged position to a neutral or advantageous one, and punishing people's defensive options is not defensive, it's aggro. You're the one creating openings by pressuring them in a disadvantaged position. The average melee player also doesn't understand that lasering a lot doesn't necessarily equal camping. The truth is that you cannot spam lasers against someone who is being aggro. You can only spam lasers against someone who is being defensive. Falco's jump squat takes 5 frames, and laser has a 13 frame startup before its first active frame, 18 total frames before the first hitbox from a laser appears. That is if you frame perfect laser, which even with a frame perfect fast fall doesn't cover most dash heights. Compare that to moves like Fox's upsmash which comes out in 7 frames, or sheik's forward tilt, which has 5 frames of startup, and you can see that if either of these characters are positioned aggressively, they can destroy laser spam. Of course, it's perfectly possible to spam lasers against someone's aggro if they're bad at the game, but anyone who has made it to the top level knows how to navigate falco's laser, and the only time you can spam lasers against them is if they're positioning far away from you and not threatening any options that would stuff laser startup. Ginger's philosophy is that if they're doing that, they're just handing falco the advantage for free, because falco can hurt them from that distance and they can't hurt falco, so why would you as falco try to stop your opponent from doing that, in the process playing their game (which is probably to create distance so they can hit falco as he comes in.) The people who think this strategy is defensive probably also thought it was defensive when emperor palpatine was blasting luke with lightning. "he's just projectile camping him ResidentSleeper" they say, "why isn't he trying to punch luke with his fists, what a lamo"
Colbol just does stuff lmao there's an old set of him vs. Wizzy where he does a grounded Fire Fox into up smash and it's so stupid but it works. I can't imagine any other player ever getting that lol.
@@AndrewRKenny he specifically did an up B right next to someone's shield, and the actual launch shield poked or something and then he up air'd I believe
Would have been coolif he had included some legacy players. M2k, Armada, PPMD mainly. I'd think even if he didn't play against them a whole lot he still has an opinion on their playstyle?
looked up a moky vs hax set and it seems like hax is maybe marginally more defensive than moky so idk if moky has like personal issues with the guy but it doesn't seem right
I think Moky has too much experience playing Zain in friendlies and not enough playing Zain in tournament tbh
Zain in friendlies freestyles a lot to figure shit out, he's constantly experimenting with anything and is taking mental notes about anything that "feels" right or is replicable
Zain in tournament coalesces all of that data from friendlies into the ultimate Marth flowchart and only freestyles when in a genuinely new situation. It may still look like freestyling to some people simply because they see him chain things they haven't seen him do before, but that's mostly because he's made his flowchart so extremely expansive
I'm not trying to exaggerate here--I definitely don't think Zain is as purely flowcharty as Wizzrobe. But I definitely think he should be a LOT closer to Swift on that graph.
On god I read hairstyles and it took me a full minute to realize I was wrong
If we're judging Melee players by hairstyle then Zamu has gotta be S tier
aMSa is Hat Tier
S tier - Polish, Moky, Zain, Wizzy, Current Johnny
A Tier - Mang0, Ginger, Magi, Current Hbox, Sora, Leffen, Llod in his doctor photo
B Tier - Cody, Aklo, Current n0ne, Axe, Lucky, Slug, (Maybe) HugS, Pipsqueak, Shroomed
C Tier - aMSa, Spark, Hax, Kodorin, BobbyBB, Fiction
D tier - Moky after his hair has been in a beanie for too long
hoping that’s what next video is
Well well well...
I bet this chump won't even show up.
n0neSTARE
PauseChamp
👀👀👀
I know this is a month late, but damn, dude really held his end of the bargain.
Mang0, Moky, n0ne the most fun to watch easily. Gotta throw BBB in there as well. Honorable mentions to old S2J and old Westballz 😤😤
Wym old s2j he is still sick af to watch
@@iamawin8272 He used to be balls to the walls. He calmed down a lot and changed his play-style. Nothing wrong with it, he wants to win.
@@il100374 he’s still clearly the fastest and most aggressive falcon. Mango calmed down a lot too but he’s still insane to watch. The sick stuff s2j does is just less flashy than n0ne
@@iamawin8272 You think S2J is more aggressive than n0ne and it's "clear"?..
ppmd in his prime was so fun to watch
I love this Kurtis “moky” Pratt video
I love this Moky "kurtis pratt" Dokie video
Moky didn't forget to rank Bab, he just put him off the right edge of the chart
players with unrestricted play styles are usually way more flexible than others
I personally play unga bunga aggressive without a flowchart in mind
optimal and saucy movement
I don't think ginger is defensive at all, I think he's only slightly less aggressive than mang0. People mistake taking and holding stage for being defensive. You have to be aggressive to take stage, and holding stage is inherently pressuring. I think the average melee player decides who is aggressive based on who is short hopping towards the other person more, but they don't realize that you can short hop towards someone defensively. What I mean by that is, you can read that they're going to try to move forward, and then short hop and put an attack at that spot. That's not aggressive, that's just zoning. At the same time, when someone is out of stage and you are holding stage and preventing them from getting out of the corner, you are pressuring them because that's a very scary position to play, and lots of people will spam rolls, full hops, yolo shffls etc to try to get out. All of these are defensive options in that they're attempts to move from a disadvantaged position to a neutral or advantageous one, and punishing people's defensive options is not defensive, it's aggro. You're the one creating openings by pressuring them in a disadvantaged position.
The average melee player also doesn't understand that lasering a lot doesn't necessarily equal camping. The truth is that you cannot spam lasers against someone who is being aggro. You can only spam lasers against someone who is being defensive. Falco's jump squat takes 5 frames, and laser has a 13 frame startup before its first active frame, 18 total frames before the first hitbox from a laser appears. That is if you frame perfect laser, which even with a frame perfect fast fall doesn't cover most dash heights. Compare that to moves like Fox's upsmash which comes out in 7 frames, or sheik's forward tilt, which has 5 frames of startup, and you can see that if either of these characters are positioned aggressively, they can destroy laser spam. Of course, it's perfectly possible to spam lasers against someone's aggro if they're bad at the game, but anyone who has made it to the top level knows how to navigate falco's laser, and the only time you can spam lasers against them is if they're positioning far away from you and not threatening any options that would stuff laser startup.
Ginger's philosophy is that if they're doing that, they're just handing falco the advantage for free, because falco can hurt them from that distance and they can't hurt falco, so why would you as falco try to stop your opponent from doing that, in the process playing their game (which is probably to create distance so they can hit falco as he comes in.) The people who think this strategy is defensive probably also thought it was defensive when emperor palpatine was blasting luke with lightning. "he's just projectile camping him ResidentSleeper" they say, "why isn't he trying to punch luke with his fists, what a lamo"
i love this long educated message, and then the name stray dog. well said sir
Its interesting how there is a straight line from Wizzy to S2J
the crazy part is Mang0, Fiction, and BBB make a triangle
There's technically a straight line from any 2 points on graphs like this. As well as a triangle between any 3 points...
@@CreamyPesto505
I mean how Wizzy, Kodorin, Zuppy, SFAT, IBDW and S2J are all in a (basically) straight line
@@CreamyPesto505 wow someone should make a joke about that. If only I were smart enough :(
@@kieranm9340 dude same. My brain is butter though. Smooth af.
Surprising that colbol is that far in the freestyle! maybe I should go watch some colbol sets
Colbol just does stuff lmao there's an old set of him vs. Wizzy where he does a grounded Fire Fox into up smash and it's so stupid but it works. I can't imagine any other player ever getting that lol.
@@AndrewRKenny he specifically did an up B right next to someone's shield, and the actual launch shield poked or something and then he up air'd I believe
Colin is crazy
great editing
your youtube vids are sick
love the content moky
How you gonna forget my boy Lucky!
Lucky’s there, bottom right. Moky just didn’t have anything interesting to say IG LMAOOOOOO
@@172rkgk LMAOOO true
8:20 pause here he added a few other players that explanation was cut.
Would have been coolif he had included some legacy players.
M2k, Armada, PPMD mainly.
I'd think even if he didn't play against them a whole lot he still has an opinion on their playstyle?
You have the most French Canadian playstyle I've ever seen.
HUGE content
Doke up, boys
Another banger video as always
sick video as always
Why aren't I on the chart...
Waiting for Jaden beeUwu
where could he become
If that’s where plups sheik is, his fox must be off the chart aggressive lmao
I loved the part when
Same! I also loved that moment when he
good vid moke
Sick shot
none not kneeing is sometimes wack tho
Only one I found qualms with is amsa, I think he very free style at times
What did he use to make this graph?
You didn’t need to do that to ibdw 😭😭
looked up a moky vs hax set and it seems like hax is maybe marginally more defensive than moky so idk if moky has like personal issues with the guy but it doesn't seem right
I'm blobDancing right now
Thank you for this. Gonna recommend everyone in the bottom right quadrant to my friends 🔥
MOKY
I would put freestyle/innovative
Innovation can come through new flow charts though.
prolly move n0ne down a bit
I enjoyed this video.
I'm looking for jaden in the comments
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holy shit, there is good melee content?
where is guy farting
he included aklo
PGH Carroll?
WESTBALLZ????
y= -x
Had is officially the most lame player in melee. ROFL