How Paranoia Killed The Spartan-Athenian Alliance | The Spartans | Odyssey
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- Опубликовано: 1 мар 2021
- Athens, which had been allied with Sparta against Persia, begins to experience an expanded economy (and democracy under the leadership of Pericles). His construction of the long walls - fortifications which connect Athens to Piraeus - is considered to be a hostile act by an increasingly paranoid Sparta, and is the basis for future discord between the two states.
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Why cant we have more documentary series like this. Insightful, informative with engaged presenters and with none of the daft dramatisation which distract from the comtent
I have to ask, do you Love Bettany Hughes.
"She is after all very classy... crisp, lively, absorbing....rich in explanation and revelatory"
Idk, there were some distracting dramatisations of spartan women :D
@@canadiankewldude her respect for herself, health and her feminine beauty are complimented by her respect to true history.
Bettany Hughes has a number of well produced docos. If you haven't seen them yet...you are in for a treat.
It's hilarious that you make this comment on a video that's 20 years old...
You can't get any better then Ms. Bethany Hughes when it comes to story telling!!! I wish she would make more documentaries!!! Bravo!
Absolutely! I am, however, rather distracted by her beauty 🙂
Hahaha, yea.........what'd she say??
The narrator focuses too much on displaying her body and oversensualizing her sentences that this documentary becomes more akin to a parody. It distracts from the content and overall makes her seem like an airheaded floozy who’s only purpose is to look sexy.
@@elainebenez1995 it works for the guys
That's MRS. Bettany Hughes. She's married.
Thank you! Love Bettany Hughes!
Bloody brilliant. Brings history to life. If all history lessons were like this!!!!!
Very informative and great presentation that keeps the viewer’s interest.
Excellent work
This is a grand presentation! Artifacts, locations, costumes, that gals energy! Love it
well done, great documentary! learned a lot of new...!
I Adore Bettany Hughes,She Taught me Soo Much about Greece,and History in general,I was in my twenties when her Spartan Documentary came Out,and I was enthralled,I built my entire Day Around it,to make sure I Didn’t miss it,I didn’t have a video recorder,or today’s modern devices...Bettany Hughes,She Revolutionised History telling,and at the time there was a Lot of jealousy at how she was influencing the young and getting them excited by History 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏👍👍👍👍👍
"It was a democracy in name only. In reality it was men with money who had the say." That certainly sounds familiar.
That is exactly what TRUE Democracy is and always will be. Accept reality.
Wahh wahh, in America, the supposed shining light of democracy, it is ran by a woke mob rule. Most powerful men are conservative at least fiscally and every branch is currently dominated by the left, full of young, broke folks who love the idea of socialism. Keep feeding off the narrative that you are being oppressed by Bezos who has literally 0 effect on your life, and you will continue to oppress yourself.
*Democracy is fully dependent upon the Information flow being truthful. That is why there's been a long cry for a "Free Press", an elite owned Media is not ever a "Free Press".*
@@bethbartlett5692 If that's a barb aimed at MSM, I will say, at least it is not media that is at the beck and call of whatever autocratic potentate happens to be in power at the time. MSM was vital in bringing down Donald Trump, a wannabe strong man who thought he could wave a magic wand or 2 and transform himself into a US version of Vlad Putin. MSM did A LOT to make sure that didn't happen.
Real democracy is only where it came from.greece my friend you see you learn something today
It is so fatinating I wish it never ends,you are wonderfull!
Great video. Plus I'm in love with the narrator.♥️👍
What year was this made? Bethany Hughes never disappoints. Such a brilliant & classy woman & gifted presenter.
So beautiful presentation of the ancient Greek history.
This lady has got the tempo so right Love her narrating!!
Beautiful narrative...
The only problem with good old fashioned documentaries like this one is it’s to short. Such good subjects need 2 hours at a minimum 👍
I have looked everywhere online for this series. Thank you so much for sharing it.
Brilliantly told
A very interesting and informative teaching.... where are these peoples located now..
Thank you🙂
Love the Spartans!, great videos and information.
I heard they came to Greece originally from Egypt
"If your sword is too short, take a step forward."
Return holding your shield or upon it.
Shoot em' like Indiana Jones
yeah how dumb, because then you a re stepping right into your foe's longer sword.
@@theCosmicQueen that's why you have a shield and great training.
It's not about the size of the sword, baby! Just wing it when you swing it!
The freaking music on these is incredible
Such relief to finally find an attractive presentress telling stories about the ancient worlds...
Nice history
is there anything better than a young bettany hughes?....soooo smart....so beautiful....she made me learn greek
That Trireme (Olympia, a vessel in the Hellenic Navy), is simply awesome!. But, as you couldn't leave your bench to answer natures call, can you imagine being on the bottom row of oars when battle starts and bowels loosen?
As someone obsessed with Athens I have to ask for more ancient Athens content
Me too Annie! Other than Ancient Rome I love Ancient Greece. Have you checked out Magellan?
Watch the "Crucible of Civilization", it's the Documentary for your interest.
Please note, it is good but it is heavily 1 sided and as a Historian that bothers me. Documentaries should never show a bias.
However, it does offer in-depth details on Athens and there it gets an A.
Enjoy
@@WarshMeh
Please see my reference Documentary listed on previous reply.
Enjoy
Me too, Are you into the Classics? Colllege?
Athens is an awkward one, on the one hand it was a centre of culture and a democratic city. On the other it was a violent and aggressive ruler of an large and downtrodden empire.
They should have had that in the 300 movie - King Leonidus says "Borders - We place no limitations upon anyone and wish none be placed upon us" and the reply from the messanger was "so were does your barbery end and civilization begin" to this Leonidas states, "our walls are made of our bodies, and their borders, lie at the tips of our spears."
Well said
Wow, I frankly didn´t expect to get such an in-depth look into this episode of ancient Greek history, the tensions between the former allies and the developments that lead up to them. And of course Perikles was right about Spartan state induced bravery. That said, as mostly in history there obviously was no black or white, rather plenty of different shades of grey. Can´t wait for the next episode. Subbed.
Bettany Hughes has a number of these well produced docos. You're in for a treat.
Fun fact:
My father got me interested in history when i was a kid by showing some Bethany Hughes
Thts a best stories
This is my favorite Host and Narrator. More Bettany Hughes, please.
Totally agree, Bethany Hughes is very engaging and I loved the series she did called, The Ancient World. I can`t understand why she isn`t still making documentaries as she`s very popular and so well spoken.
Bettany Hughes is still making lots of documentary’s - she now runs a production company with others called SandStone Global, and produces her own work, but they are manly shown in the UK and Europe, but you can catch some of her new work on RUclips such as Egypts Great Mummies: Unwrapped.
The narrator focuses too much on displaying her body and oversensualizing her sentences that this documentary becomes more akin to a parody. It distracts from the content and overall makes her seem like an airheaded floozy who’s only purpose is to look sexy.
She is quite eloquent
Thermopylae had 1000 Thespians at the last stand as well. The Thespians have finally gotten a memorial at Thermopylae.
Thespians were 700 actually, in total a 1000 with the 300 Spartans.
A thousand lovies 🤔
Not only do we need more documentary series like this, but we also need Hollywood to start making movies about Ancient Greece.
As it stands, we only have Agora (based in Egypt but great film), Alexander (I hate Oliver Stone), and 300 (yawn).
Greece is largely untapped in Hollywood, they always do Rome instead.
But Ancient Greece has it all, beautiful architecture, beautiful people, and fascinating stories.
almost everything about spartan life would be considered immoral, especially their sexual lives.
beautiful historian in the world..
Bettany and her red dress stand equal with all the wonders of the ancient world!
The best of the ancient Greece factual documentarians.
Does anyone know where I can find Part 2?
God just the Spartan yelling is awesome.
Anytime the word Utopia is used...RUN!
During the segment of the documentary discussing Spartan women, it occurred to me that their reputation for being strong and independent may have been used as a form of propaganda and psychological warfare against other Greek societies, which was typical for the Spartans. Just imagine if you were a Greek during the Olympics, the most important moment in Greek culture, and a Spartan woman won everything. Later, when at war with Sparta, many Greeks must have thought, "If we can't even defeat their women, how will we fare against their men?" Therefore, I do not believe that Spartan women were examples of proto-feminism. Instead, they were another weapon in the Spartan army's arsenal, ready to be used as a psychological weapon against their enemies and as a final defensive measure during a siege when the men were away fighting. Another interesting idea about Spartan women who owned land is that if their men were away fighting, the women knew how to maintain order with the slaves, as the men did, with violence and ferocity. The land belonged to the women, and they had a vested interest in maintaining it in their possession and ensuring societal order in general.
☠💀☠💀☠💀☠
From way back when there were actually still serious history programmes worth watching on TV with real content and depth - instead of all the superficial, rushed, irrelevant and often amateurish junk that we are mostly getting these days.
Another brilliant, amazing and captivating history and archeology programme is English historian Michael Wood's classic six parts series "In Search of the Trojan War" - highly recommended!
I have watched it at least six times by now 😂
I enjoyed his documentary very much. Another of his that I love is 'In the Footsteps of Alexander the Great'.
@@Morgana0x Thank you - I have still to watch that one 😉
Is this a Dead Can Dance soundtrack?
Another amazing video from Odyssey! I actually recently uploaded my own summary video of the Athens vs Sparta conflict causes in 4 minutes if anyone wants the spark notes version haha!
Sparta was a state built upon the slavery of a conquered and occupied people.
i watched this documentary over and over when i was younger
I'm a senior citizen and I watch these documentaries more than once! A lot to take in with only one viewing.
@@jakemoeller7850 I am curious about what happened to the Greek gods ? Are the believers of Greek religion were killed by crusaders & turned into Christians
@@ashiqrh317 The Greek Orthodox Church is the culmination of the turmoil.
Yes. I don't doubt it. Bettany Hughes will do that to a teenage boy.
@@zigisamblak
no, actually i used to watch this over and over when i was 9 or so... it is only years later i realised how hot she was.
gave me a life long love of classical history... and brunettes
A bit annoyed that this excellent presenter’s name does not appear anywhere in programme description. Sort it out.
What did the ancient Persians look like? I understand that it might be confusing at first look due to their lack of representation, but it will actually become pretty clear upon a second glance. For now as you read this just keep in mind that most contemporary art, even the ones depicted by modern Iranians themselves are based on ancient Persian Royal art, which itself was directly copied from the Assyrians and Babylonians who came before them - a highly symbolic, flat type of art where all faces regardless of which nation was represented, looked almost identical (for more see the last two paragraphs). Some of the modern art also conflates the current Middle-Eastern phenotype with that of the ancient peoples of Iran.
The Persians and Spartans were both Indo-Europeans (Caucasians). But according to Greek historian Herodotus (Father of History), the Medes were blonds and sandy-haired Northern Iranians. Xerxes’s father, Darius, was a Mede, his mother a Persian. That collaborates centuries later with Roman poet and historian Ovid’s analysis when he said Northern Iranians (the Parthians, Scythians, Alans, Sarmatians, etc), were no different in appearance to the Celts and the Germanic tribes. The Roman author Ammianus Marcellinus, centuries earlier had stated the same.
The few realistic art work we have of the Persians themselves done by Greek and Roman artists, depicts them as white, but dissimilar to the Greeks, and far more resembling the French, the Spaniards, and reveals them as Eastern European-like. Herodotus also noted that Xerxes was supposedly one of the most youthful in appearance and handsome men in Asia during his time, whatever that means.
The most life-like depiction of ancient Persians are the “Bishapur art”, the wall and mosaic drawings done by Roman prisoners of war where they put their well-known talents to use and aided with decorating some newly constructed Persian palaces. In those, Persian women specifically and other female courtesans are depicted as almost pale with somewhat thick, flat eyebrows, with brown and black hair, very rarely some, including men, with red hair (as also depicted by Greek artists on the so-called Alexander’s sarcophagus and Sassanian floor fresco). The “Sassanian silver plates art”, also repeat the some of the same type of depictions, but since it was done by Persian artists, again many faces look similar, and have a symbolic quality to them to a certain extent, yet still a very good starting point. Other notable art include, “The Parthian solider” bust, (Greek-based), “The Dying Persian”, and “The Parthian statue”, a remarkable ancient Roman work of art with black marble used as the body, contrasting it with beige and black marble as his clothing and cape. Lastly, of importance are the many Parthian coins still in survival. Clean shaven (or not), and inspired by realistic portrayals unique to Hellenic art, Parthian kings and Princes with their Iranian weapons of choice, the bow and the arrow, look like Scandinavian war-lords, or at the very least are very Robinhood-like (see Arsaces I).
Alexander’s northern Iranian wife who was after his death murdered by his mom or his men, was named Rukhshanaa (Roxana, Roxanne). In ancient Iranian and still today’s Persian, it means, shiny-faced, light-face. Back then, and even today in Iran, the more secluded a tribal group was/is, the “lighter-skinned” in appearance they are, something that again, is Specially true for some reason or the other with Iranian women, signaling lack of intermarriage. The indigenous peoples of the Iranian plateau, the Elamites, had beautiful olive-skin with long braided hairs, whom Persian royals went on to copy, as a form of fashion of the times, as well as borrowing their long robes with wide bejeweled sleeves. Their sophisticated culture was long established before the arrival of the Persians and other Iranian tribes.
THE BOTTOM LINE? Northern Iranians aside, focusing strictly on the Persian tribes (Southern Iranians), THEY, resembled modern Albanians, Romanians, and modern Northern Italians, as well as very strongly, the Medieval Europeans (excluding Northern Europe). When you see an image of a Medieval European, from Hungary, Spain, and above all, France and Portugal, you are most likely coming very close to seeing the face of an ancient Persian. Accordingly, see the rock carving of the Khosrow II, an artistic work and an archeological piece 1000 years before the emergence of the Medieval Europe and the concept of the heavy armored warrior (what the French would later call the Chevalier, or the British, the knight). Ancient Iranian tribes hailed from Ukraine by the way, at least that’s as far as we can tell.
As the late Prof. Emeritus Richard Frye of Harvard noted, while the Iranians are not geographically Eastern Europeans, they are however, “The Europeans of the East”. Or according to encyclopedia Brittanica,
“The name Persia derives from Parsa, the name of the Indo-European nomadic people who migrated into southern Iran…in about 1000 BCE”.
It’s important to note that Persian imperial art itself in Persepolis and other places does NOT depict the Persians, or any other groups, realistically, as they all show a flat profile, with most faces looking very similar or almost identical. This was partially borrowed from the Assyrian and Babylonian empires who came before them, to portray a continuity and homogeneity of races. It was also an attempt to legitimize Persian rule, the world’s first Indo-European super power, who replaced thousands of years of semitic kingship (the Egyptians and the aforementioned civilizations). Let me repeat that one more time, ancient Persian art itself is NOT realistic, but more symbolic.
Where the “Indo” suffix of the designation, Indo-European comes from is due to the fact that while some Iranians tribes where settling in their new homeland, in modern Iran, simultaneously other Iranic tribes invaded Northern India. That is why many Indic and ancient Iranian Gods and religious beliefs display similarities. The British scholar who coined the term thought that the related-European groups passed through the Hindu Kush mountains. Although at some point the old Ariana (Iranian tribes) who invaded India were fortunately, eventually absorbed by the indigenous Brahmin population. Otherwise we wouldn’t have the nation of India, as we know it today. Something that for anyone who is a lover of cultures, arts, mathematics and good food would be unimaginable.
That’s ethnicity; linguistically Iranian languages are classified as the aforementioned Indo-European, which can in turn be termed as ancient English.
Words like, mother, father, son, daughter (dokhtar). ponder (pendaar), nice (nik,neekoo, nikki; Greek: Nike), Jasmine (yaasamin), scarlet (saghalaat, see Merriam-Webster), Melchior, art (Old Pers.: arta), mind (manaa), grab (Avestan/Eastern Persian, grab), far (related to fara, ex: faravahar; fra, par-vaaz), being (boodan), is (hast), you, tiger (tighra; Merriam-Webster), it (een), Allan (Alan, Alania; from the Northern Iranian tribes who settled in modern day Scotland), Ariana (Arya, Aria, Eire-aan, ultimately, “Iran”). Amazon (hama-zan; see “Sarmatians” in Brittanica; also Online Etymology Dictionary; also Adrienne Mayor, The National Geographic; also “The Early Amazons, JH Block, 1995), Caucasian (search engine: etymology of Caucasus), etc, are mostly still found in Farsi.
I hope this was helpful.
The result of genetic studies: The Proto-Iranians can trace their origin to roughly modern Ukraine and Chelyabinsk, Oblast, Russia. These sites have been archeology completed and they are the so-called Sintasha and other cultures where the horse was first most likely domesticated. Before that we had the Andronova culture, with similarities to the Sintasha. On the other side, to the West of these cultures there was the Srubnaya culture that later both layered and replaced the Potapovka peoples. The Potapovka culture in turn was derived from the Poltavka culture. The genetically and culturally related “coded ware” was to the North of Srubnya and Sintasha cultures; the aforementioned “Coded Ware” culture was the first to migrate to the European continent. Although partially most of these related cultures migrated to Europe, some came back to Central Asia and Russia, some stayed in Europe. In these cultures mentioned, we see the emergence of various Iranian languages, a sub section of the larger Indo-European linguistic family that itself first bloomed in the Yamnaya culture in Southern Russia. The catacomb culture was to the South of ALL of these cultures mentioned. There were other cultures (settlements), but there no absolutely no need to go through every single one. Ultimately, the aforementioned populations were ALL related, yet with slight variations.
At any rate, below are genetic studies and scholarly works that will expand on these answers further,
“In studies from the mid-2000s, the Andronovo have been described by archaeologists as having cranial features similar to ancient and modern European populations. Andronovo skulls are similar to those of the Srubnaya culture and Sintashta culture, exhibiting features such as dolicocephaly. Through Iranian and Indo-Aryan migrations, this physical type expanded southwards and mixed with aboriginal peoples, contributing to the formation of modern populations…”- Kuzmina, 2007, p. 171.
“The Potapovka culture is thought to belong to an eastward migration of Indo-European-speakers who eventually emerged as the Indo-Iranians. David W. Anthony considers the Potapovka culture and the Sintashta culture as archaeological manifestations of the early Indo-Iranian languages.”
“In a genetic study published in Science in 2018, the remains four individuals ascribed to the Potapovka culture was analyzed. Of the two males, one carried R1a1a1b2a2a and U2e1, while the other carried R1 and C. People of the Potapovka culture were found to be closely related to people of the Corded Ware culture, the Sintashta culture, the Andronovo culture and the Srubnaya culture. These were found to harbor mixed ancestry from the Yamnaya culture and peoples of the Central European Middle Neolithic. The genetic data suggested that these related cultures were ultimately derived from a remigration of Central European peoples with steppe ancestry back into the steppe.”
“The Potapovka people were massively built Caucasoids/Europoids. Their skulls are similar to those of the Catacomb culture. Potapovka skulls are less dolichocephalic than those of the Fatyanovo-Balanovo culture, Abashevo culture, Sintashta culture, Srubnaya culture and western Andronovo culture. The physical type of the Potapovka appears to have emerged through a mixture between the purely dolichocephalic type of the Sintashta, and the less dolichocephalic type of the Yamnaya culture and Poltavka culture.”
Make a Video on Trojan war.
I barely recognize her since she's lost so much weight. Always enjoy her enthusiasm.
I think this was before she put on the weight.
🤣🤣🤣
If only she would exercise like a Spartan woman nowadays
🤣🤣
The discussion of Spartan male/female relations sort of reminds me of the Hitler Youth--the encouragement to be sexually active and the emphasis on being emotionally and physically fit for combat. Hitler said that the Third Reich was based on ancient Rome, Athens, and Sparta. Degas painted a picture of young Spartan men and women exercising outdoors.
We can forgive someone being ignorant and atrocious two millennia ago but not someone a century ago.
And all the Spartans would have had to do was refuse the surrender, and they would have had their beautiful death. After all, isn't that also Spartan law; no surrender?
Jeff: easy for a man not facing death to say.
Like the Japanese samurai!!💯💯💪💪
Someone got a swoopy camera for Christmas.
Why do they not give the original names of these documentaries?
Its a best history
If I could pick, definitely team Lycurgus..
Using actual grave markers for the purpose of construction is highly unethical.
Adrian Evans you are sooo lucky
Respect to both sides, wars back then war awful.
Did they just next week me like I won't just youtube the end to this story....damn......see y'all next week
0:09 32:52
Gooooooooooong
The predominance of women in public life in Sparta was through necessity because men were always busy at war, training or out spreading terror amongst the Helots who were always a danger to the status quo.
The Iliad, Oddosey, and Ethipus. Explain all 3 please..
I love history but I love the teacher more
Did Spartans war veterans get to retire or did they stay in Army their whole lives???
They could at a point but not many made it to that point though. The ones that did were treated like kings lol
The rich old retired soldiers can become priests in the local city cult temples, in addition to the official hereditary priests, who are often the head of the local cult. Most often, they became teachers and trainers of the next generation of soldiers, aid the ephors (a famously corrupt institution) or manage the behaviour of the wives and children, as well as the property and slave of their sons who are in the battlefield.
Sounds like she’s describing introverts (Sparta) to extraverts (Athens)
Fascists
Sparta famously had no walls. "Their young men were their walls, and the borders, the tips of their spears". Some of the toughest guys in history. They had testosterone surging through their veins.
You might like it there......😍
They were fascists
That might explain their famous widespread gayness as a tradition?
@@jackprier7727 Ya think???😂
@@jackprier7727 it seems they didn’t always have homosexuality as a tradition, but, as with every nation, eventually with time, they become morally degraded and suffer the ill consequences. Look at most western nations as a modern example.
Se efharistoume Benthany....
“New Discovery on The Amazons”
The Amazons - for centuries thought of as Greek mythos, but thanks to modern archeology in the Kurgan regions of Southern Russia revealing royal graves with female warriors, it has proven Herodotus right . As he stated, they were of Scythian origin, the wild, nomadic, estranged Iranian cousins to the Persians living in Ukraine (home to several Proto-Iranians, from whom it is very possible the Persians themselves had split from at some point).
The Amazons (possibly, Old Iranian: hama-za, “together with woman/together we fight) were subject of much fascination and mythology to the imaginative minds of the ancient Greeks. That singular culture of gender equality continued in ancient Persia. When Herodotus (the Greek author and Father of History) famously said, “From an early age, the Persians teach their young three things: To ride horses, to shoot arrows, and to tell the truth”, it wasn’t just the boys who were taught - it was also the girls. An attribute in antiquity “unique to the Persians”.
As the World History Encyclopedia denotes, and due to invaluable research by scholars such as Dr. Oric Basirov at the university of London, in Persia proper and greater Iran there were also all-female cavalry units, which would continue up to the times of the Romans as commented by her soldiers in various literature. According to one Roman soldier & historian, at the beginning of a certain battle the Roman left-flank cavalry galloping parallel to the Sassanian-Persian army witnessed a single Persian rider breaking away from the army and coming closer to the Roman cavalry, gesturing to the Romans to pick a warrior, to “battle him”, in a duel. As the Persian (or Parthian) horse-man was riding, “He took off his helmet”, “His long flowing hair pouring out of it”. To the astonishment of the Roman soldiers and legionnaires, it was revealed - she was a woman. Parthian literature also collaborates the inclusion of female knights from various royal clans in their feudalistic armies.
According to the Royal Records of Persepolis, some women even owned land and businesses.
And at some point Xerxes allowed a Greek woman commander to be the head of his naval forces - Artemisia - something that she could never be afforded in Greece, and certainly in democratic Athens where women, foreigners and slaves were excluded and not considered as equals, or centuries later in the aforementioned Rome. Or for that matter in the 1800’s (almost 2000 years later) in the British empire, or until the 1960s, in the United States when “Chief Master Sgt. Grace Peterson became the first female chief master [of the United States Air Force].
As for the Amazons,
”The archaeological evidence from Scythian graves reveal a level of sexual equality that would have astonished the Greeks”, according to scholar Adrienne Mayor at The National Geographic. She further writes, “In their myths about the bold Amazons, it seems that the Greeks allowed themselves a secure space to explore the idea of equality between the sexes, an impossible dream in their own paternalistic society where men dominated and controlled women.” Today’s women of Iran, including the Kurdish nomads who are of Iranian descent and who formed the first resistant group against ISIS via their all female army units, always eager to be on the front lines, are the direct descendants of the Amazons.
I'd love to know what kind of footwear soldier's wore in battle.Everyone knows that anything hitting your feet especially one's toes is excruciating like being hit in the groin area , it would stop a galloping horse. Going into battle against metal and wooden objects being hurled at you.This was up close and personal , no hiding behind a rock with this crew.Does anyone know what was worne on the feet !✌️
If only Spartan's weren't so few they would have out lasted Athenian's. Also no matter how tough you are once you are bent over from true hunger and lack of sleep you can't fight.
Who is the narrator?
Wow, I really loved Sparta for the fact how it treated to the women, unlike 'democracy' of Athene were women were invisible.
So how many women were there in Sparta as part of the citizenship? Considering that there were only ever 10k to later 1k Spartans what was their proportion to that? Did they inherit citizenship status or only get it through marriage? What happened to the surplus of women? Did they practice polygamy? Did they have a convent system like the knight class of medieval Europe to take up the surplus of women? Did they marry Helots/ other Greeks if they were "left over" and if so did that change their status/ that of their children?
Bettany Hughes was sultry as hell back then
She still is in my opinion :=)
Have you seen her documentary on the Minoans? I had a girlfriend in high school who looked just like her.
@@Marmocet I have yes, thoroughly enjoyed both it and the sight of her looking very nice against the backdrop of the Greek islands :=)
@@jaymartin8273 Bettany's feminist bent does get a bit irritating though, I must say. For example, she talks about the role of women an Athenian society in terms of an oppressor (men) and oppressed (women) paradigm. What she fails to grasp is that in any society, social norms are upheld and enforced by women to _at least_ as large a degree as they are by men. It's funny that she doesn't get this even though she spends a lot of time in this documentary talking about how the Spartan women, through their use of shaming tactics, were enforcers of the Spartan code of social norms. Women ultimately decide whose genes make it into the next generation and that gives them huge power to dictate what society should and should not deem valuable and right. This power is evident in all kinds of ways. One particularly poignant statistic that illustrates the power dynamic between men and women is the fact that ~80% of women who have ever lived have passed their genes on, compared to around ~40% of men.
@@Marmocet That's true, but I don't think she 'doesn't get it' its probably more a case of not wanting to cause controversy. After all saying 'men oppressed women' is easier to swallow than 'women upheld the system that oppressed them. Of course this is only my opinion I could be wrong for all I know (I probably am in fact)
I understand that women dynamics was an important distinct characteristic of Spartan society, but I felt that this documentary invested way too much time on this subject, rather than focusing in it's main theme, which was how the Spartan-Athens alliance broke.
Well The presenter is a woman. She will be more fascinated and engaged in womens topics. Understandable.
@@kreuzbergediting I believe it has more to do with the politics of the time the documentary was shoot. They wanted to reinforce the feminist view on history, and they did that, even by saying unbelievable histrorical innacuracies. For example, it is mentioned in the video that spartan women were the only women in the ancient world who were allowed to ride horses…She seemed to be totally oblivious of the Scythians. They were other parts where even a layman could identify mistakes (another example would be the name of the ancient greek godess of birth). All in all, this documentary was below average quality.
@@mbmb4284 The narrator focuses too much on displaying her body and oversensualizing her sentences that this documentary becomes more akin to a parody. It distracts from the content and overall makes her seem like an airheaded floozy who’s only purpose is to look sexy.
I don't actually think it's paranoia, when the other side demonstrably means you harm
She says it wasn’t real democracy and only people with money had decision power, but that’s not what one of the most illustrious historians here in Italy (and in the world), professor A. Barbero, says. He states whoever was on the list of citizens and showed up in the morning to discuss politics had the right to hand vote. Anyone. The only ones excluded were women, slaves, foreigners and people who owned absolutely nothing, basically homeless beggars. Everyone else had decision power.
Actually, you are right. But it seems that most of the citizens - women and slaves were not considered as citizens - couldn't just leave their work at the fields to attend the "Ekklysia". Many of them were required to travel to the city centre and, considering that the meetings could last for a whole day, find a place to sleep afterwards. So only the rich could afford participating at the "Ekklysia". And this is the reason Pericles introduced subventions in order to allow the poorer to participate.
are you joking? that means the minority were the voters. the slaves were many, the women were many. probably quite a few who didn't own a home of their own or any real accumulated wealth.
All people but: women (50%), slaves (20% of the males), Foreigners (30% of the males) and people without possesions (no body has cared about counting them). They only excluded most of their population.
What's the copyright on this?
MOMMY
Καλή γυναίκα, (kali gyineka ) going by what it sounds from the modern Greek , it means “good” woman rather than “beautiful”.., but perhaps in ancient Greek this would imply a beautiful woman.
Indeed, it comes from the word "κάλλος", which means "beauty".
In Assassins Creed Odyssee most of us played a Spartan woman
I still prefer Kassandra over Eivor...
She likes it outdoors
anyone likes it outdoors in Greece. a nice warm sunny country.
@@theCosmicQueen oh yeah? And what about you?
There is an ideologist who tries to frame the conflict between USA/Europe and China/Russia in the war between Sparta and Athens. The comparison is abusive. The Peloponnesian War was bloody, but confined to a small geographic space. The greatest empires of the time (Persia and China) did not commit to this conflict between a people more flamboyant than numerous and powerful. The war that devastated Greek territory did not completely annihilate enemy populations. The nuclear conflict that is intended to be compared to the Peloponnesian War will annihilate not only Americans, Europeans, Chinese and Russians, but all other peoples even if they wish to be left alone. And there is no mistrust or paranoia: everyone knows for sure that nuclear war will be the last and there will be no winners, because everyone will be equally killed or condemned to die in a devastated and contaminated world. This would certainly seem very strange to the Spartans and Athenians who struggled for power after the war and not to ensure their own death and the destruction of their families.
I really like these medieval documentaries...I watch them every night.Thanks for the upload.
Medieval approx. 5 th _ 15 th century whereas Sparta - Athens 600 - 140 BCE. But as you watch "them every night", I am sure you knew that already.
Try to watch them in the morning once in a while, you may pick up something
@@ruttolomeo1987 try not being an ass in life! You might pick something up
@@derekcouzens9483 Feel better about yourself do you?
@@buttercxpdraws8101 Ancient Sparta is not medieval times. Is there something wrong with being correct? We learn by our mistakes.
Too much video of broken pottery and actors playing Spartans, and not enough Bettany. In fact, in future, just show Bettany.
She's a plump middle aged woman now
14:36 wrong. Aspasia was a pretty powerful woman
Oh don’t let Gary white see this one. He will send her a marriage proposal.
"Women's role was to grind corn" I thought corn was not in Greece yet?
Bettany was really hot back then lol.
What'd you mean 'back then'? She STILL is!! :=)
Only Spartan women can produce Spartan warriors/ men ! A Spartan woman's parting saying to her husband or son , "Come back with your sheild or on it ! " ❤
Fighting fairies!
Derp
❤🎉
I would rather have had the Persians running the show than the Spartans. Spartan civilization was a slave state and a lot of other unappealing things. Heinrich Himmler thought they were a model to be emulated. That should tell you all you need to know about the Spartans.
Bruce Macmillan -- Correct.
The various obsessions of later interpreters don't really have a lot to do with History. In fact interpreting History out of the context of the era is the most vulgar error that someone can do.
@@arisarsenis3500 So, what does that mean. Sounds like bullshit sophistry to me. You could say the same thing about slavery thru the ages, up to and including slavery in the US. Are you gonna defend slavery in the US and other places where it occurred at the same time on the basis of, "Well, that was the era that people lived in." ? Wrong is wrong, whatever the social construction of any given era.
On the whole I agree, though frankly "Himmler/Hitler thought they were a model to be emulated so they must be bad" is not the greatest logic, especially when you can counter with the widespread admiration they had later,, including as far afield as Ethiopia's Ras Tafari Makonne/Hallie Selassie and the US's Founding Fathers.
A better argument is simply that the Spartan system was hideously oppressive and frankly far more corrupt and less effective than most of the starry eyed commenters- from Himmler to the Founding Fathers and the host of people that named their schools that.
Another reason wh I wish the 700 Thespians were better nown.
lol you people and your "guilty by association" mentality. this bad person liked X, so X is bad too! spartans were right, we should be enslaving the likes of you.
I would have taken my child and moved to Italy or at least Athens. No way would I accept a Narcissistic Society Rule like Sparta's over male children.
I would be like: Etruscans are far more appealing than the locals.
@TJ SWEETWATER i do understand what you’re saying
At times it’s horrifying to think some people will never have the chance to leave their bubbles
But not until I leave mine first, no?
They were fascists
As a woman for those if u could go back in time questions Sparta may be the least terrible
Enjoyed this video very much. I could have easily raised my daughters like this. That’s why God didn’t give me any.