Agreed! A part of me feels like a side deck is necessary because in today's meta you have some match ups where specific flood gates would be better than others. However, the problem is you have to sacrifice 3-4 spaces to utilize two different ones or even three. Which kills the consistency especially if they're just one techs and you never find the one you're actually needing for a specific match up.
I think the last one being “Digimon cannot digivolve by effect” that affects both players would be a more fair interpretation of that. Wanna prevent yourself from being Blasted? Sure, but now Trainings are turned off, which means you need to play things in a particular order to not hose yourself. I’d also like to see it as a White Level 3 that can’t digivolve in breeding so it doesn’t contribute to color identity and must be hard played.
I agree with the hand trap issue as some of those cards when activated can win you the game the moment they are played regardless of if the enemy plays a nuke card to kill it.
For Trash protection floodgate effect on a purple digimon: "All Turns: Players cannot move cards in their opponents Trash" is probably better and more succinct. The way you had your prevented effecting your own cards in the trash with the effect of cards other than their own effects; so you could not effect a card with a DIFFERENT card of your own... which would be pretty essential for purple decks to do at times. This way I also think the opponent would have to consider allowing your floodgate to stay since it also protects their own trash pile a lot better, so there is a choice involved.
Wanted to make it a double edged sword. But loosely purple cards can typically attack into security to try and get deleted or sacrifice themselves before they make big plays. Who knows, it may never be an effect.
For the sake of discussion, the only ones I don't seem to like are numbers 4, and 7. (Number4) I feel like giving purple or trash reliant decks a bit too powerful allowing them to freely their trash resources available without trouble. I'd rather have interactions to deal with them, looking at you DexDorugora Players. (Number 7) This cuts out the entire point of the ACE mechanic, which allows aggression a better forefront, yet also doesn't allow too much interaction that the ACE cards provide. Though, I do understand if it didn't stop that, then there would be little to no point of it. If we do want more rookie floodgates, the easiest solution to balance it out would to provide more low-end removal to ensure that floodgates don't overrun formats, but still allowed them to be played as counterplay. Good discussion video as always!
Perfectly valid by the way! I'm not here to push that my ideas or values are the only way or that Bandai is doing a terrible job *sarcasm*. Absolutely not, I do want to open up the community to these types of discussions and where cards find value or are... overtuned. That being said, largely why I think there should be a trash protector flood gate is mainly because of cards like Imperialdramon Paladin Mode ACE. Why should one singular card have the power to completely make you start over from scratch if your win condition or stategy is so trash reliant? This is where Merciful Mode was more balanced in my mind in that it was 10 cards. But the entirety of one player's trash? Seems a little harsh.
I would add one more element to this video. These more powerful floodgates stun effects can be instead an on play skill over an all turns. This is better in testing the concepts. They can also have something like end of opponents turn, send this card to the bottom of the owners deck.
Overall, I think it's still interesting that yellow doesn't have the memory flood gate. I do agree though that flood gates tend to live in specific colors for a long period of time before the next one is made available. While color is one thing... making it a specific Digimon is another. Agumon flood gates? Get out of here.
One my friend came up with that I love is a flood gate that stops players from placing cards underneath Digimon and tamers. This effects so many different decks in the format and because it's worded the same as pomumon can hurt the controller as well
This is also a viable flood gate. With the reappearance of digi xros it should be another viable floodgate. Now the question, should there be inheritable flood gates.
Ess having floodgate would defeat the purpose of them. Its so easy to kill a lvl 3 and mostly everydeck has a tool to pop them. Right now its balanced to where to cant play how I want to. but at max a floodgate can kill a turn or 2. Instead of not playing the game at all. If they had floodgate ess’s you could find protection and make sure your opponent cant play at all. Itd be too toxic.
Having floodgates that have crazy strong effects but being locked to an on play trigger would also be a good option. If floodgates eventually becomes an archetype there could also be a lv4 that could flicker digimons to trigger their on plays again. Option cards that would have pretty taxing effects but could also be broken at any time by delay effects would be relly good and would encourage bandai to make more option removal. Other useful floodgates would be raising on play and evo costs by 1 and cards that could reduce the amount of cards looked at by 1 for search effects
No no no, you're reading ahead ha ha. I was actually looking at flicker effects similar to Restoration Angel from Magic the Gathering ha ha. Now I have to write that out. :P
@@DIGI-PANDA you don’t have to write it out, you could use slow flicker effects that only return cards at end of turn or beginning of next turn. If they could be used to target opponents digimon would be evem more crazy because they could remove a threat for a turn at the cost of retriggering on plays (and probably when digivolving) effects but at the same time removing any kind of temporary buff or debuff and removing all the sources
In my experience people really dislike the idea of more floodgates but i think at this point im super on board with it. The game keeps getting faster and faster and honestly level 3 digimon are super easy to remove from the board which means new floodgates really wouldnt even be that oppressive.
I'm not so sure about blocking security addition/removal effects. As you mentioned, 7+ stacks are less common currently. Preventing trashing your opponent from trashing your security is nice, however it all but kills decks that rely on Barrier, such as Kentaurosmon, Angewomon, and Witchelny. Preventing adding cards to hand by effect also turns off any kind of deck searching, which is a problem for almost every deck. Monmon's effect preventing it from being bounced would be cool to see as an inherited effect, or at least more common, similar to how preventing When Digivolving effects seems to be gaining more cards with that effect as well.
That's the trade off I considered. I was also looking at the fact that typically in Digimon, not all colors have their specific flood gate. And in truth, none of the flood gates that currently exist are in all colors.
We definitely need more floodgate rookies. A rookie that stops players adding a ton of cards to hand could seriously change the game for a lot of decks.
Dang, so no tamers by effect would stop hitting a tamer on security checks too... That's pretty neat! I think a floodgate that has "When Attacking: Delete this Digimon to delete a Tamer." would be pretty handy as well, as Tamer removal just isn't very accessible across the board, and oftentimes that's what seems to make or break a game.
a lot of these effects can be put into more general flood gates like opponent can't trigger "when digivolving"/"when attacking" effects. Venusmon shows how powerful this can be even if it's for one turn. Putting this on a level 4 could be could be helpful. Though all players can't add cards to hand by effect is a pretty nice idea as hitting a decks consistency to search definitely would slow the game down as shown in Yugioh..
Check out wikimon.net and look up each of those Digimon I featured in the thumbnail. Scroll to the bottom of each Digimon's page and you'll find an image gallery. Look at miscellaneous and you'll see the illustration for the Battle Spirits Collaboration :3. Hope that helps!
“Add cards to hand” floodgate would be very good into blue decks. But neuters mono blue decks since bounce is their main form of removal, minus a few return to deck cards. I think it’d be more fair to say “Your opponent can’t add cards to their hand by effect”, this still slows their tempo, but gives them the opportunity to remove the body eventually, as opposed to pointing at them saying “try to remove it, OH WAIT!”
Some players argue that it stops the bounce removal, but then you have other flood gates like Pomumon/Pillomon who hose Fortitude. Feels like a double standard to me.
The first 2 would have to be one or another. They couldn't prevent DP minus AND plus but prevent DP minus I can see. Same with security, I can see a floodgate to block trashing effects from working or for preventing players from recovering. But not both. The "can't add card to hand by effect" is a _very_ good idea though and I'd love to see that happen. Plus it is a bit of a double edged sword in many ways and the player using it would still have to play around the effect.
Hilariously, you could just have the flood gate active on your turn and then smash into security hoping it gets deleted. But yes I do see the problem with having both.
Nice video ! You missed some Options Removal. With Memory Boosts, Trainings, Deck themed Options like the ones from BT17 and all the 7DS ones this is becoming a real problem. I literally tried to play Leopardmon against a Leviamon Deck and the options locked me out of the game 😅
Unfortunately, some decks are just major counters. Because there is Imperialdramon Paladin Mode ACE now, you could utilize this ACE Digimon with Leopardmon X in order to return all cards in trash, thereby preventing them from going off with Biting Crush.
One thing I will give bandai is that I think they've been pretty smart in how they have designed this game's floodgates. Because they are on lv 3 bodies, they are very easy to interact with so while they do their job in slowing the opponent down, the opponent can usually answer them in some way fairly easily. Being tiny bodies also means that players may not want to swing into security with them or else they either lose their floodgate to nearly any security 'mon or option, or are made vulnerable to being easily ran over. I suppose it is a little odd that colors only have access to certain floodgates and there's no floodgate that exists in every color, but I get the feeling that this was largely done on purpose. With all that said... I don't like the idea of floodgates that prevent a kind of removal since being vulnerable to easy removal is part of what makes them well balanced imo, so I don't like the idea of the first floodgate. I understand the argument, but I think this effect is a bit to broad here. Like, a player could basically sit on this floodgate against 90% of yellow and have their board be entirely immune to the opponent's main form of removal, including the floodgate itself. A way that this could work is if it said, "other digimon can't have their DP increased or decreased" At least in this way the floodgate would still be vulnerable giving yellow players that rely on DP minus a means of counterplay still Even though I'm a yellow player, I'm actually fine with your second floodgate idea. We already have an option that can prevent cards from being added to the security, so having the effect on a body that the opponent can interact with is more than fine imo. I think your 3rd floodgate should be changed to, "cards can't be added from the deck to the hand except from digivolving and during the draw phase" Again, I think it's important that floodgates don't stop themselves from being interacted with by a form of removal. The 4th floodgate Idea is a bit messy since purple likes to add cards from the trash to hand. It's probably fine since the opponent can answer the floodgate before using their effects, but perhaps it'd be better if this was one of the floodgates that only effected the opponent? The 5th floodgate is probably necessary to be brought to this game at some point. Multi-attacking is extremely powerful, just ask cardfight vanguard lol 6th floodgate would be good, though as long as it doesn't stop tamers from being played do to security effects. Slowing down decks that play a bunch of tamers through effects is probably gonna be necessary at some point, though I don't think such a floodgate should stop tamers being played after being checked in security I dunno that the 7th floodgate is necessary yet, since Aces already have a lot of counterplay just built in to the mechanic. They're fairly heavily telegraphed, Counter timing comes after when attacking so the opponent has plenty of time to answer the Ace before it even hits the board, they have giant targets on their head after they hit the board... I don't think Aces need even more counterplay.
There was some mild discussion in regards to having Digimon with inheritable flood gate effects. But I think that's too soon. In a few years? Maybe. Overall, I think these were preliminary ideas that have plenty of room to change or even be balanced. Is it a discussion that needed to be had? I think so.
@@DIGI-PANDA I'm not sure about inheritable flood gate effects. Part of what makes our current flood gates well balanced is that they are on highly vulnerable tiny bodies. Certain flood gates can basically completely stop certain decks on their own until they get answered, for example, flood gates that prevent play cost reduction basically completely stops the original beelstar deck from playing the game at all, or any digixross deck for that matter. Now, imagine that kinda deck stopping power being able to be on a bigger, less vulnerable body... Especially in certain decks where the big digimon are already harder to interact with.
limiting cards added to hands by card effects is an eff I think plausible having Barba X, or at least his option shutting down that mechanic for a turn
BT9 Alpha was the first time I felt like floodgates were pointless. The best decks seem to remove them on the way up the line. Is it time to make these inherited effects? What about the non rookie floodgates like Sakuya, DeathX, Ruin, Dino, Volcani, etc?
Generally level 3 flood gates feel niche at times depending on format. Which is why I probably lean more on supporting a side deck. Only problem is, in a BO1 you don't really have a need for side decks. Non floodgate cards need to have some form of splashability - with DeathXmon probably being the most splashable one.
The first 2 have to be added in my opinion, or at least something similar to their effects. I know that would hurt Yellow, but I want to make sure it's kept in check. I can easily see Yellow getting out of hand if we don't have at least 1 of those 2 effects. I'd rather force Yellow players to find a way to deal with these effects rather than to limit and/or ban cards. Naturally I think having something to prevent bouncing is also mandatory. I'd rather not see cards be limited/banned if they can be stopped by an effect that can be placed on a level 3. It's long past time to put a leash on Mirage.
I'm a little worried about the idea of having floodgates for every possible mechanic, because it sort of just turns the game into "dilute your deck with these off-theme Digimon in the hopes you steal a win by shutting off your opponent's deck". Especially when people start saying "well we need a side deck so we can bring these into the right matchups"; I think playing a 3 memory Rookie is so low-commitment that you could easily just fill up your whole side deck with as many floodgate Rookies as you can and just hope to draw into them in games 2-3. Then the whole game just becomes "race to shut the other player down first" and I always found Digimon most engaging when it's back and forth, which I feel like the game mechanics themselves already encourage with the memory and shield systems.
In some ways I agree but I also think that flood gates would be most effective with the inclusion of a side deck. The problem is the Digimon card game currently does not have one and with the unification of the formats in just a few months, I also think this will put an end to the ask of side decks because if we unify, this could also unify our game styles, BO3 VS BO1.
As in like the fifth egg? There's always some randomness to the game. Frankly. I think there are a wide variety of card effects that could be hilarious to implement but I don't know if it goes too far or strays from what Digimon was originally designed for.
@@DIGI-PANDA For example i play Gallantmon, so I will hatch first the egg that gives me a Draw, and then when my opponent have a Digimon, I would choose to hatch the Gigimon that gives +1000 DP to deletion eff
1. Nice floodgate, to stop removal. But can see this being abused in a deck that has good protection against most except for dp -. Might see floodgates removals being locked at lv 4. 2. Honestly a good one. When Security trashing becomes meta. 3. Mostly the same thoughts as 1. But can see ravemon or the devimon deck abuse this. 4. Good 5. Feels like an inherit effect. Doesn’t slow down an opposing deck and just works when the opponent has reached a lv 6. While hope they didn’t remove it along the way. 6. Playing tamers for free has definitely gotten an upgrade. Especially with the seekers partner digimon having no conditions while having a bonus effect. 7. Just no. My idea: all turn: No player can use “Delay” effects.
The new queens device can prevent blast digivolution. I can imagine its a good one of for finishing games. I understand its not as good as one you described though. I feel like flood gates as you described might make for a boring meta. Has mystic mine vibes in my honest opinion.
Overall that's one avenue of discussion I wanted to have in the comments! Is the purpose of flood gates integrated into the game to slow the game down? Or is it a bandaid fix to a problem in the game? When the flood gate has a reason to exist it's one thing but having it for the sake of a problem is another. This specifically for countering blast digivolution with flood gate number 7.
@@DIGI-PANDA I personally think having a few flood gates are ok. It is a great way of building your deck around certain weaknesses. But if your deck is just full of floodgates and all you are doing is just making your oppnent not play the game, are you really "outplaying" or "outsmarting" your opponent? I understand some people do enjoy that level of play which is ok but I don't believe its enjoyable to watch let alone play. This is just my oppinion at the end of the day.
The monodragon feels a bit too powerful, as it just turns off the Ace mechanic completely. Perhaps it should be a 4 cost, so it's harder to just slam it down to stop a going for game turn. That way a player can at least see it's coming (in egg) or requires a player to start their turn with more than 3 memory. Otherwise, the cards look fun, and as someone who likes marsmon, anything that gives us more bearmon seems good to me!
Completely valid. This is where it became quickly difficult to navigate what is considered a fine flood gate. Look at other flood gates like Pomumon, Pillomon and Gotsumon who completely knee cap Diaboromon decks until they find their Kurisarimon that can pop them.
its just sucks that something like these exist in a game with no side deck. Like looking back at diaboromon, you play one of the floodgates that prevent tokens and you just physically cant play. I had a game that i played searcher and passed for 5 turns in a row looking for the kurisari to pop the floodgate
Is Monmon techincally a Floodgate? Level 3 black [All Turns] This Digimon can't be returned to hands or decks by your opponent's effects. As it stops any bounce the lowest level digimon?
I don't see 1 happening, it's not a floodgate anyway, it's just protection. This effect in no way prevents swarming or such. 2 Might happen, although I don't think it would block adding security, that is too much specifically yellow hate, and would absolutely cripple any security searching cards. Protection from cards being *removed* from security via effect however, I can see happening. While it does still disproportionately hurt yellow [Barrier; security searches] it's also good for yellow sec-con stuff to not get trashed. 3 No. This just isn't happening, cards which shut down all searchers. Also; since floodgates are lv3's this wouldn't even hurt blue. Blue has a myriad of effects which bounce lv3's. 4: No; too disproportionately hurts purple [revival/recovery from trash effects] and trash hate is too rare. Also; the idea that a "floodgate" [it's not a floodgate anyway] needs to be printed for Paladin Mode just means Paladin Mode should be banned. 5: I can see it; but this would again, disproportionately *benefit* blue; since Blue just bounces the limiting rookie anyway. 6: I'm in two minds over this one actually. I think it is a very realistic thing to be printed, but at the same time, with Bandai basically making playing tamers the entire purpose of lv4's [Which are already probably the least focused on level; and seriously; every single tamers lv4 in BT19 does this exact effect] I don't think Bandai will do it. I WOULD like to see it, and I think it's a pretty cool effect. Especially to have on "villian" digimon in decks which traditionally do not use tamers much if at all. But I don't see it happening with the direction Bandai is going with lv4's. Besides; anti-tamer archetypes exist, like Argomon and Eosmon. If this effect were to be printed, I think it could actually be on a lv4 in these sort of archetypes. Or maybe something like Evilmon in a wave of Dark Masters support. I can see it maybe existing in decks which do *not* use tamers of their own, but not as a generic lv3 floodgate. More archetypal.
For number 1, it's more so to prevent your flooding of the boards from being answered by 1 Digimon. Valkyrimon ACE is largely the epitome of mass removal for green decks, especially as a deterrent on your opponent's turn. DeathXmon at least can only be played on your turn. Overall, I agree with your thoughts in that flood gates can sometimes do too much - in this video in particular. Another viewer commented on the fact that why prevent DP increases AND decreases? Why not just one or the other? This is where you have to expand on what's too much and what's fair.
@@DIGI-PANDA Yes! I actually thought about that after I posted. That would be cool. Maybe the return of the original Kokuwamon stipulation? An inheritable active only at a certain level
Okay this is my weirdo choice, floodgates can't remain on LV3, they die too easily and their challenge is completely ignored LV5s now can kill LV6 digimon with no issues. So make the all floodgates again but as LV4s cost 4 and with 8k DP
I think their effects would be more costly at that point. Take the memory flood gates for example. Make it into an inheritable and now it'd be probably players cannot gain memory by card effects except tamer effects. This prevents either player from abusing it.
@@DIGI-PANDA as inheritable effects it gets out of hand you don't want those effects under an unaffected digimon, becomes problematic. I just think they should be harder to remove because removing lv3 is pretty much free.
@@DogmaDraws See that's another problematic problem. If you provide inheritable flood gates, then you have to contend with immunity Digimon. Imagine level 4's that had the inheritable and you have multiple under Kimeramon then evo into Magnamon X or even ZeedMillenniummono.
I can't agree to the last one honestly, because that stops the only counterplay currently in the game. If we get other counter timing cards, battle options or something, sure, then that would be fine. We don't want to get into yugioh level I win no matter what strength floodgates.
That's another avenue I've been brainstorming. We have Blast digivolution and we have Blast DNA digivolution. But why not the rest? Will ACE option cards be a thing?
![Can EX7 HeavyMetaldramon Hang With The Heavy Hitters? [Digimon TCG Sauce Or Loss]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/JA0QCXlNb5E/mqdefault.jpg)
![YoungBoy Never Broke Again - Sneaking [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1ILUps2zDFU/mqdefault.jpg)
Flood Gates are a Neccesary evil to give you tools against thing like SGD, Royal knight or any deck Who breaks the basic digievolution mechanics
Agreed! A part of me feels like a side deck is necessary because in today's meta you have some match ups where specific flood gates would be better than others. However, the problem is you have to sacrifice 3-4 spaces to utilize two different ones or even three. Which kills the consistency especially if they're just one techs and you never find the one you're actually needing for a specific match up.
How would you floodgate d-reaper then
I think the last one being “Digimon cannot digivolve by effect” that affects both players would be a more fair interpretation of that. Wanna prevent yourself from being Blasted? Sure, but now Trainings are turned off, which means you need to play things in a particular order to not hose yourself. I’d also like to see it as a White Level 3 that can’t digivolve in breeding so it doesn’t contribute to color identity and must be hard played.
I like this! It balances on the training options as well.
I agree with the hand trap issue as some of those cards when activated can win you the game the moment they are played regardless of if the enemy plays a nuke card to kill it.
There are certain ACE Digimon that are just too OP in my mind.
For Trash protection floodgate effect on a purple digimon: "All Turns: Players cannot move cards in their opponents Trash" is probably better and more succinct. The way you had your prevented effecting your own cards in the trash with the effect of cards other than their own effects; so you could not effect a card with a DIFFERENT card of your own... which would be pretty essential for purple decks to do at times.
This way I also think the opponent would have to consider allowing your floodgate to stay since it also protects their own trash pile a lot better, so there is a choice involved.
Wanted to make it a double edged sword. But loosely purple cards can typically attack into security to try and get deleted or sacrifice themselves before they make big plays. Who knows, it may never be an effect.
For the sake of discussion, the only ones I don't seem to like are numbers 4, and 7. (Number4) I feel like giving purple or trash reliant decks a bit too powerful allowing them to freely their trash resources available without trouble. I'd rather have interactions to deal with them, looking at you DexDorugora Players. (Number 7) This cuts out the entire point of the ACE mechanic, which allows aggression a better forefront, yet also doesn't allow too much interaction that the ACE cards provide. Though, I do understand if it didn't stop that, then there would be little to no point of it. If we do want more rookie floodgates, the easiest solution to balance it out would to provide more low-end removal to ensure that floodgates don't overrun formats, but still allowed them to be played as counterplay. Good discussion video as always!
Perfectly valid by the way! I'm not here to push that my ideas or values are the only way or that Bandai is doing a terrible job *sarcasm*. Absolutely not, I do want to open up the community to these types of discussions and where cards find value or are... overtuned. That being said, largely why I think there should be a trash protector flood gate is mainly because of cards like Imperialdramon Paladin Mode ACE. Why should one singular card have the power to completely make you start over from scratch if your win condition or stategy is so trash reliant? This is where Merciful Mode was more balanced in my mind in that it was 10 cards. But the entirety of one player's trash? Seems a little harsh.
I would add one more element to this video. These more powerful floodgates stun effects can be instead an on play skill over an all turns. This is better in testing the concepts. They can also have something like end of opponents turn, send this card to the bottom of the owners deck.
I like this for the sake of balancing. A brief reprieve if you will.
Oh my gosh!!!! I PRAY these get made! I like some more than others, but they would just have to be REALLY spread out color wise
Overall, I think it's still interesting that yellow doesn't have the memory flood gate. I do agree though that flood gates tend to live in specific colors for a long period of time before the next one is made available. While color is one thing... making it a specific Digimon is another. Agumon flood gates? Get out of here.
@@DIGI-PANDA I’m a big fan of Terriermon having one, so maybe one for Renamon and Guilmon? Or the 02 kids, so Veemon, Hawkmon, Armadillomon?
One my friend came up with that I love is a flood gate that stops players from placing cards underneath Digimon and tamers. This effects so many different decks in the format and because it's worded the same as pomumon can hurt the controller as well
This is also a viable flood gate. With the reappearance of digi xros it should be another viable floodgate. Now the question, should there be inheritable flood gates.
@@DIGI-PANDA depends on what you mean the phrase "inheritable floodgates"
Ess having floodgate would defeat the purpose of them. Its so easy to kill a lvl 3 and mostly everydeck has a tool to pop them. Right now its balanced to where to cant play how I want to. but at max a floodgate can kill a turn or 2. Instead of not playing the game at all. If they had floodgate ess’s you could find protection and make sure your opponent cant play at all. Itd be too toxic.
Having floodgates that have crazy strong effects but being locked to an on play trigger would also be a good option. If floodgates eventually becomes an archetype there could also be a lv4 that could flicker digimons to trigger their on plays again.
Option cards that would have pretty taxing effects but could also be broken at any time by delay effects would be relly good and would encourage bandai to make more option removal.
Other useful floodgates would be raising on play and evo costs by 1 and cards that could reduce the amount of cards looked at by 1 for search effects
No no no, you're reading ahead ha ha. I was actually looking at flicker effects similar to Restoration Angel from Magic the Gathering ha ha. Now I have to write that out. :P
@@DIGI-PANDA you don’t have to write it out, you could use slow flicker effects that only return cards at end of turn or beginning of next turn. If they could be used to target opponents digimon would be evem more crazy because they could remove a threat for a turn at the cost of retriggering on plays (and probably when digivolving) effects but at the same time removing any kind of temporary buff or debuff and removing all the sources
In my experience people really dislike the idea of more floodgates but i think at this point im super on board with it. The game keeps getting faster and faster and honestly level 3 digimon are super easy to remove from the board which means new floodgates really wouldnt even be that oppressive.
Inheritable flood gates was another suggestion but I think that creates it's own set of problems.
I'm not so sure about blocking security addition/removal effects. As you mentioned, 7+ stacks are less common currently. Preventing trashing your opponent from trashing your security is nice, however it all but kills decks that rely on Barrier, such as Kentaurosmon, Angewomon, and Witchelny.
Preventing adding cards to hand by effect also turns off any kind of deck searching, which is a problem for almost every deck.
Monmon's effect preventing it from being bounced would be cool to see as an inherited effect, or at least more common, similar to how preventing When Digivolving effects seems to be gaining more cards with that effect as well.
That's the trade off I considered. I was also looking at the fact that typically in Digimon, not all colors have their specific flood gate. And in truth, none of the flood gates that currently exist are in all colors.
We definitely need more floodgate rookies. A rookie that stops players adding a ton of cards to hand could seriously change the game for a lot of decks.
Full rookie rush with flood gates would be hilarious.
Dang, so no tamers by effect would stop hitting a tamer on security checks too... That's pretty neat! I think a floodgate that has "When Attacking: Delete this Digimon to delete a Tamer." would be pretty handy as well, as Tamer removal just isn't very accessible across the board, and oftentimes that's what seems to make or break a game.
Whooooooooooooops. Probably should fix that to say Tamers cannot be played by effects except their own XD
a lot of these effects can be put into more general flood gates like opponent can't trigger "when digivolving"/"when attacking" effects. Venusmon shows how powerful this can be even if it's for one turn. Putting this on a level 4 could be could be helpful. Though all players can't add cards to hand by effect is a pretty nice idea as hitting a decks consistency to search definitely would slow the game down as shown in Yugioh..
Those types of effects always feel like they're specifically color reserved. There's a lot I've been cooking with keywords but we'll see what happens!
Fellas, how did you get the Impmon png for the thumbnail? It looks so cool! Even the Hagurumon one!
Check out wikimon.net and look up each of those Digimon I featured in the thumbnail. Scroll to the bottom of each Digimon's page and you'll find an image gallery. Look at miscellaneous and you'll see the illustration for the Battle Spirits Collaboration :3. Hope that helps!
“Add cards to hand” floodgate would be very good into blue decks. But neuters mono blue decks since bounce is their main form of removal, minus a few return to deck cards. I think it’d be more fair to say “Your opponent can’t add cards to their hand by effect”, this still slows their tempo, but gives them the opportunity to remove the body eventually, as opposed to pointing at them saying “try to remove it, OH WAIT!”
Some players argue that it stops the bounce removal, but then you have other flood gates like Pomumon/Pillomon who hose Fortitude. Feels like a double standard to me.
The first 2 would have to be one or another. They couldn't prevent DP minus AND plus but prevent DP minus I can see. Same with security, I can see a floodgate to block trashing effects from working or for preventing players from recovering. But not both. The "can't add card to hand by effect" is a _very_ good idea though and I'd love to see that happen. Plus it is a bit of a double edged sword in many ways and the player using it would still have to play around the effect.
Hilariously, you could just have the flood gate active on your turn and then smash into security hoping it gets deleted. But yes I do see the problem with having both.
Nice video ! You missed some Options Removal. With Memory Boosts, Trainings, Deck themed Options like the ones from BT17 and all the 7DS ones this is becoming a real problem. I literally tried to play Leopardmon against a Leviamon Deck and the options locked me out of the game 😅
Unfortunately, some decks are just major counters. Because there is Imperialdramon Paladin Mode ACE now, you could utilize this ACE Digimon with Leopardmon X in order to return all cards in trash, thereby preventing them from going off with Biting Crush.
One thing I will give bandai is that I think they've been pretty smart in how they have designed this game's floodgates. Because they are on lv 3 bodies, they are very easy to interact with so while they do their job in slowing the opponent down, the opponent can usually answer them in some way fairly easily. Being tiny bodies also means that players may not want to swing into security with them or else they either lose their floodgate to nearly any security 'mon or option, or are made vulnerable to being easily ran over. I suppose it is a little odd that colors only have access to certain floodgates and there's no floodgate that exists in every color, but I get the feeling that this was largely done on purpose. With all that said...
I don't like the idea of floodgates that prevent a kind of removal since being vulnerable to easy removal is part of what makes them well balanced imo, so I don't like the idea of the first floodgate. I understand the argument, but I think this effect is a bit to broad here. Like, a player could basically sit on this floodgate against 90% of yellow and have their board be entirely immune to the opponent's main form of removal, including the floodgate itself. A way that this could work is if it said, "other digimon can't have their DP increased or decreased" At least in this way the floodgate would still be vulnerable giving yellow players that rely on DP minus a means of counterplay still
Even though I'm a yellow player, I'm actually fine with your second floodgate idea. We already have an option that can prevent cards from being added to the security, so having the effect on a body that the opponent can interact with is more than fine imo.
I think your 3rd floodgate should be changed to, "cards can't be added from the deck to the hand except from digivolving and during the draw phase" Again, I think it's important that floodgates don't stop themselves from being interacted with by a form of removal.
The 4th floodgate Idea is a bit messy since purple likes to add cards from the trash to hand. It's probably fine since the opponent can answer the floodgate before using their effects, but perhaps it'd be better if this was one of the floodgates that only effected the opponent?
The 5th floodgate is probably necessary to be brought to this game at some point. Multi-attacking is extremely powerful, just ask cardfight vanguard lol
6th floodgate would be good, though as long as it doesn't stop tamers from being played do to security effects. Slowing down decks that play a bunch of tamers through effects is probably gonna be necessary at some point, though I don't think such a floodgate should stop tamers being played after being checked in security
I dunno that the 7th floodgate is necessary yet, since Aces already have a lot of counterplay just built in to the mechanic. They're fairly heavily telegraphed, Counter timing comes after when attacking so the opponent has plenty of time to answer the Ace before it even hits the board, they have giant targets on their head after they hit the board... I don't think Aces need even more counterplay.
There was some mild discussion in regards to having Digimon with inheritable flood gate effects. But I think that's too soon. In a few years? Maybe. Overall, I think these were preliminary ideas that have plenty of room to change or even be balanced. Is it a discussion that needed to be had? I think so.
@@DIGI-PANDA I'm not sure about inheritable flood gate effects. Part of what makes our current flood gates well balanced is that they are on highly vulnerable tiny bodies. Certain flood gates can basically completely stop certain decks on their own until they get answered, for example, flood gates that prevent play cost reduction basically completely stops the original beelstar deck from playing the game at all, or any digixross deck for that matter. Now, imagine that kinda deck stopping power being able to be on a bigger, less vulnerable body... Especially in certain decks where the big digimon are already harder to interact with.
limiting cards added to hands by card effects is an eff I think plausible having Barba X, or at least his option shutting down that mechanic for a turn
Blue from my perspective is an obscenely overtuned color.
@@DIGI-PANDA It is, too much draw, too much non destructive removal. I usually play purple and feel most games againts blue is just auto lose
BT9 Alpha was the first time I felt like floodgates were pointless. The best decks seem to remove them on the way up the line. Is it time to make these inherited effects? What about the non rookie floodgates like Sakuya, DeathX, Ruin, Dino, Volcani, etc?
Generally level 3 flood gates feel niche at times depending on format. Which is why I probably lean more on supporting a side deck. Only problem is, in a BO1 you don't really have a need for side decks. Non floodgate cards need to have some form of splashability - with DeathXmon probably being the most splashable one.
The tamer floodgate is legit
Who knows when we get something like it.
What do you use for your custom card creation? It looks very realistic
Magic Set Editor! There's a new version released that includes the updated templates and blast digivolution!
The first 2 have to be added in my opinion, or at least something similar to their effects. I know that would hurt Yellow, but I want to make sure it's kept in check. I can easily see Yellow getting out of hand if we don't have at least 1 of those 2 effects. I'd rather force Yellow players to find a way to deal with these effects rather than to limit and/or ban cards.
Naturally I think having something to prevent bouncing is also mandatory. I'd rather not see cards be limited/banned if they can be stopped by an effect that can be placed on a level 3. It's long past time to put a leash on Mirage.
I know Mirage didn't see too much representation at Dallas this previous weekend, but I do think there needs to be something curbed about the deck.
I'm a little worried about the idea of having floodgates for every possible mechanic, because it sort of just turns the game into "dilute your deck with these off-theme Digimon in the hopes you steal a win by shutting off your opponent's deck". Especially when people start saying "well we need a side deck so we can bring these into the right matchups"; I think playing a 3 memory Rookie is so low-commitment that you could easily just fill up your whole side deck with as many floodgate Rookies as you can and just hope to draw into them in games 2-3. Then the whole game just becomes "race to shut the other player down first" and I always found Digimon most engaging when it's back and forth, which I feel like the game mechanics themselves already encourage with the memory and shield systems.
In some ways I agree but I also think that flood gates would be most effective with the inclusion of a side deck. The problem is the Digimon card game currently does not have one and with the unification of the formats in just a few months, I also think this will put an end to the ask of side decks because if we unify, this could also unify our game styles, BO3 VS BO1.
Digi panda i have a meta game question: How would the game change if you could choose which egg to hatch ?
As in like the fifth egg? There's always some randomness to the game. Frankly. I think there are a wide variety of card effects that could be hilarious to implement but I don't know if it goes too far or strays from what Digimon was originally designed for.
@@DIGI-PANDA For example i play Gallantmon, so I will hatch first the egg that gives me a Draw, and then when my opponent have a Digimon, I would choose to hatch the Gigimon that gives +1000 DP to deletion eff
1. Nice floodgate, to stop removal. But can see this being abused in a deck that has good protection against most except for dp -. Might see floodgates removals being locked at lv 4.
2. Honestly a good one. When Security trashing becomes meta.
3. Mostly the same thoughts as 1. But can see ravemon or the devimon deck abuse this.
4. Good
5. Feels like an inherit effect. Doesn’t slow down an opposing deck and just works when the opponent has reached a lv 6. While hope they didn’t remove it along the way.
6. Playing tamers for free has definitely gotten an upgrade. Especially with the seekers partner digimon having no conditions while having a bonus effect.
7. Just no.
My idea: all turn: No player can use “Delay” effects.
I love your eighth option! And of course, these flood gates aren't perfect, they're just ideas to consider.
You forgot the best floodgate, Dinorexmon!!!
I was keeping it more in the level 3 category ha ha. My apologies.
The new queens device can prevent blast digivolution. I can imagine its a good one of for finishing games. I understand its not as good as one you described though. I feel like flood gates as you described might make for a boring meta. Has mystic mine vibes in my honest opinion.
Overall that's one avenue of discussion I wanted to have in the comments! Is the purpose of flood gates integrated into the game to slow the game down? Or is it a bandaid fix to a problem in the game? When the flood gate has a reason to exist it's one thing but having it for the sake of a problem is another. This specifically for countering blast digivolution with flood gate number 7.
@@DIGI-PANDA I personally think having a few flood gates are ok. It is a great way of building your deck around certain weaknesses. But if your deck is just full of floodgates and all you are doing is just making your oppnent not play the game, are you really "outplaying" or "outsmarting" your opponent?
I understand some people do enjoy that level of play which is ok but I don't believe its enjoyable to watch let alone play. This is just my oppinion at the end of the day.
Flood gates are neccesary to stop or slow down power creep. Not being able to add addition security. What about a flood gate to stop de-digivolving?
Hmmm that's normally a black related effect but if it does get around to other colors that might be night for them too.
The monodragon feels a bit too powerful, as it just turns off the Ace mechanic completely. Perhaps it should be a 4 cost, so it's harder to just slam it down to stop a going for game turn. That way a player can at least see it's coming (in egg) or requires a player to start their turn with more than 3 memory.
Otherwise, the cards look fun, and as someone who likes marsmon, anything that gives us more bearmon seems good to me!
Completely valid. This is where it became quickly difficult to navigate what is considered a fine flood gate. Look at other flood gates like Pomumon, Pillomon and Gotsumon who completely knee cap Diaboromon decks until they find their Kurisarimon that can pop them.
its just sucks that something like these exist in a game with no side deck. Like looking back at diaboromon, you play one of the floodgates that prevent tokens and you just physically cant play. I had a game that i played searcher and passed for 5 turns in a row looking for the kurisari to pop the floodgate
I also intentionally didn't pick protagonist Digimon, except Impmon because the idea of a double edged sword flood gate is kind of funny.
Is Monmon techincally a Floodgate? Level 3 black [All Turns] This Digimon can't be returned to hands or decks by your opponent's effects. As it stops any bounce the lowest level digimon?
I considered giving Monmon the title! Ultimately I ended up putting him in limbo until someone brought up valid arguments for against or for ha ha.
I don't see 1 happening, it's not a floodgate anyway, it's just protection. This effect in no way prevents swarming or such.
2 Might happen, although I don't think it would block adding security, that is too much specifically yellow hate, and would absolutely cripple any security searching cards. Protection from cards being *removed* from security via effect however, I can see happening. While it does still disproportionately hurt yellow [Barrier; security searches] it's also good for yellow sec-con stuff to not get trashed.
3 No. This just isn't happening, cards which shut down all searchers. Also; since floodgates are lv3's this wouldn't even hurt blue. Blue has a myriad of effects which bounce lv3's.
4: No; too disproportionately hurts purple [revival/recovery from trash effects] and trash hate is too rare. Also; the idea that a "floodgate" [it's not a floodgate anyway] needs to be printed for Paladin Mode just means Paladin Mode should be banned.
5: I can see it; but this would again, disproportionately *benefit* blue; since Blue just bounces the limiting rookie anyway.
6: I'm in two minds over this one actually. I think it is a very realistic thing to be printed, but at the same time, with Bandai basically making playing tamers the entire purpose of lv4's [Which are already probably the least focused on level; and seriously; every single tamers lv4 in BT19 does this exact effect] I don't think Bandai will do it. I WOULD like to see it, and I think it's a pretty cool effect. Especially to have on "villian" digimon in decks which traditionally do not use tamers much if at all. But I don't see it happening with the direction Bandai is going with lv4's.
Besides; anti-tamer archetypes exist, like Argomon and Eosmon. If this effect were to be printed, I think it could actually be on a lv4 in these sort of archetypes. Or maybe something like Evilmon in a wave of Dark Masters support. I can see it maybe existing in decks which do *not* use tamers of their own, but not as a generic lv3 floodgate. More archetypal.
For number 1, it's more so to prevent your flooding of the boards from being answered by 1 Digimon. Valkyrimon ACE is largely the epitome of mass removal for green decks, especially as a deterrent on your opponent's turn. DeathXmon at least can only be played on your turn.
Overall, I agree with your thoughts in that flood gates can sometimes do too much - in this video in particular. Another viewer commented on the fact that why prevent DP increases AND decreases? Why not just one or the other? This is where you have to expand on what's too much and what's fair.
Alright. I’m just gonna say this. I think more higher level digimon should be floodgates, much like Argomon and Eosmon
With so much removal, I think some flood gates should start having them as inheritables. Or at least potentially.
@@DIGI-PANDA Yes! I actually thought about that after I posted. That would be cool. Maybe the return of the original Kokuwamon stipulation? An inheritable active only at a certain level
Okay this is my weirdo choice, floodgates can't remain on LV3, they die too easily and their challenge is completely ignored LV5s now can kill LV6 digimon with no issues. So make the all floodgates again but as LV4s cost 4 and with 8k DP
I think their effects would be more costly at that point. Take the memory flood gates for example. Make it into an inheritable and now it'd be probably players cannot gain memory by card effects except tamer effects. This prevents either player from abusing it.
@@DIGI-PANDA as inheritable effects it gets out of hand you don't want those effects under an unaffected digimon, becomes problematic. I just think they should be harder to remove because removing lv3 is pretty much free.
@@DogmaDraws See that's another problematic problem. If you provide inheritable flood gates, then you have to contend with immunity Digimon. Imagine level 4's that had the inheritable and you have multiple under Kimeramon then evo into Magnamon X or even ZeedMillenniummono.
I can't agree to the last one honestly, because that stops the only counterplay currently in the game. If we get other counter timing cards, battle options or something, sure, then that would be fine. We don't want to get into yugioh level I win no matter what strength floodgates.
That's another avenue I've been brainstorming. We have Blast digivolution and we have Blast DNA digivolution. But why not the rest? Will ACE option cards be a thing?