The Problems With The Current State of The Digimon TCG!
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- Опубликовано: 21 мар 2024
- The Digimon TCG is notorious for the top decks being incredibly disliked and Ultimately not fun. Today we'll be discussing what about the DESIGN problems the digimon TCG is facing and what makes the game frustrating to play especially at a high competitive level.
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I heavily disagree with your first point. What you’re talking about is a meta. Even if you don’t like how a meta shakes out, that doesn’t mean there’s an intrinsic issue. If anything, Digimon is a rare case where decks and results aren’t beholden to one/two viable decks. Cards can be strong in a vacuum of what other players are playing, without being overwhelming against the field because they have clear weaknesses and counter play. If you just want to build your deck and expect no losing matchups without planning for them, then that’s on you. This give & take between decks and what’s popular is in every competitive game. If anything, I think Digimon has an issue with creative deck building from its players. That stems from a lot of different reasons: I.e. poor access to testing, poor access to tournament results/data, etc.
Security is just a natural part of the game. It’s the crux that makes Digimon what it is along with the memory gauge. Yes, recovery is strong. It isn’t immune to its own issues or counterplay. And the extra and growing security effects have grown because of the effects of BT9 where everyone complained about the build in raising and OTK builds of all the decks.
Yes, the game is speeding up. Which is why ACEs and security effects have been rising. You can’t want the game to slow down, but also want them to harp on those cards for counterplay that extend the game. These ideas aren’t congruent.
Tamers and Delay options aren’t super interactable, but that’s by design. When you have cards like Ruin Mode or the upcoming Valk ACE, then your Digimon part of the board can be hard controlled so having something you can do with tamers/options is a necessity to create a game space where you can’t do anything on your turn
I was not talking about the current state of the meta but the design of the game. I think the meta is healthy and in a good spot, but that doesn't mean the design of the game is in that same spot as they are 2 different things. When i am talking about meta in the video, it is more just as a statement as not everyone plays the meta and how the top decks create the meta.
Security is a natural part of the game, but it doesn't mean that it is enjoyable in its current state with how it is used. I could easily be in the minority here, but this is why civil discourse is nice as not every viewpoint is going to line up, and progress doesn't happen from mutual agreement on every factor. There is a fine line when it comes to aggro vs. control in this game, and the design team has 0 idea how to finely tune that balance, not that i am expecting them to at this point. Not everything needs to be free out of security is the point i am making because it takes skill away, they can do other things with security effects that they have not explored yet is the whole point on me bringing up security.
Ace is the gimmick of block 3. bandai loves introducing gimmicks every year and exploring it. DBS masters are the prime example of them doing this. They have treated the big bomb cards the same as they always have all the way back from the beginning of the game. The removal itself just got better. I highly doubt speed was a factor that went into their creation.
Playing a tamer and using an option are fine and dandy especially when the field can get locked down but again you seem to be missing the point as playing a card and having it sit on the field being uninteractable are 2 completely different things.
See i disagree with you on the security activation. You’re saying it its not skill based but deck building is a skill. Plus there are decks that that negate activation by trashing sec cards already. For example, the new mastemon ace it corrals the other player back down to 4 security.
I do agree there needs to be more forms of removal
@69rulzz I guess my problem with security is how much free value it gives while also being luck based. Like, yes, deck building to include a card is a skill, but it actually being in security is not. I think if security bombs did something else but play themselves, I would not mind them so much.
@@Xanitsu I do understand that, and I also respect the point of view. I still disagree tho. There’s an important distinction we have to make with the design philosophy and where we’re headed. The team developed everything moving forward with Apoc in mind. We are still figuring out what the remnants of that Apoc/Anubis mistake have on future design and how that affects players. Without Apoc, we live in a format where Levia can properly do its thing and decks like Gallant can rise to deal with what the meta is. You can still see the remnants in reveals for further Apoc/Anubis support down the line, so we know this is at least still how far they were before deciding to hit Apoc. We are not yet at the point where we can see the actual direction the team learned from the mistakes with Apoc.
When you talk about “enjoyable” in reference to security effects, it comes across as just your own feelings on the matter and not an actual indication of problems at large. You do admit that, but framing it as a problem on the whole does feel a little disingenuous. Security effects need to do what they do so that they can keep the pace of the game down with more give and take. I think we’re about to step into a period where security effects become even less impactful (protection from effects, Partition, et al.) so them having strong ones now that promote more comeback mechanics/counter play doesn’t feel poorly designed in my mind.
I don’t know how you can look at how the game looked in BT9 (right around how far it seems they plan out) and not directly see the correlation between ACEs and the OTK out of raising without a care for what’s on your opponent’s field. A combination of the unpredictable in security effects, trainings/boosts coming out of security to promote a clap back turn, and now big removal effects on your bodies that sit out on field. ACE mechanics are becoming that chance to stop the uninteractible OTK turn and force your opponent to plan and interact more before lucking into a win.
I don’t know how you can look at cards like Levia X popping tamers, Argo keeping them suspended/no on plays, the increase in multi-color decks that can’t rely on just playing trainings, etc. and think nothing is being done. They’re just being careful with how strong and quick they make the interaction. I agree too much is being given for free, but that’s doesn’t translate into security effects in my mind. That manifests itself in things like BT14 Patamon and BT15 Levia X free evos. Decks need free or reduced evos to keep up these days, and strong boss monsters with immunity to be worth the big costs are the opposite end that we’re seeing with the BT16 SECs. They’re definitely experimenting with different options right now and I’m not in the boat that thinks they’re lost and it’s currently a problem.
@walkersikorski6924 it is common knowledge that games design sets ahead of time, and based on how the last 2 blocks were made, I would guess that they have the whole core blocks already done all at once. So I would agree that everything we are seeing and going to be seeing for the rest of block 3 was designed with apocalypse and anubis in mind. The only catch is that we used both decks in ways the design team clearly didn't think about. I do think the bt15 meta is shaping up differently, but with BT16, we clearly have a new big bad and yellow being the next over tuned color as history repeats itself. All we know is that the new director took her roll recently, and I hope she can fix things and not make the same mistakes as her predecessor.
When it comes to security, yes, fun and enjoyment are subjective, but who actually likes playing against a deck like sec con? Security bombs do not have that great of an impact on how fast a deck moves and does nothing to slow down the opponent when building up so it has no influence on the tempo of a match. Because decks want to move faster, they are already having a hard place in decks, and only a few decks can actually use them. The fact that the whole idea of having a brick and hoping it is in security kinda seems like it is an issue unless you can rig them or the deck needs it as part of the game plan but that is something different than what I am talking about. What I am talking about is the fact that it is free value, and the randomness (which is not a skill) of them is the issue. They didn't have to make it, so they activated the main or do something very close, but they could have played with different ideas on what security effects can do. But it is way too late for them to fix this.
I like the ace mechanic, as I already listed in the video. That has way more skill inbolved in stopping the opponent than anything out of security. My issue, as stated in the video, is with the training cards and memory boost cards. Those cards encourage OTK decks more than what they were initially designed for. Each of the yearly staples tries to fix a flaw the design team thinks is in the game as a way to fix it, but again, we are using cards in ways they didn't see.
Well, i was working on this video sense EX05 before the BT17 and EX06 spoilers. It takes time to research, write, record, and edit on top of life happening preventing me from releasing it sooner. Tamers, I already stated, is something being done, and I like that they are working on more answers for them. As stated in the video, obviously, they can not go crazy with it. Now we just need this for delayed option, being able to remove them too as they are way worse than tamers.
But one of the biggest problems I was trying to point out is the fact that we have too much free evolutions defining the meta. Decks because of them are forcing other decks to find ways to compensate because of how much of a problem they are in the shift in tempo to the game they provide.
The whole point of everything i was trying to say is that free in any form undermines the point of having a printed cost and resource system as it breaks the balance of the game. The other main takeaway was specific card types, and zones need more interaction to have better counter play. Nothing should be untouchable, and nothing should be free.
I agree the game might need more graveyard interaction in separate colors, we are seeing more tamer interaction that isn't just "delete it" and i really enjoy that
Your solutions felt really vague. You simply listed the problems with the game and said that the solution was to not do them anymore. It's a lot easier to identify a problem than to come up with a solution. It's fine if you don't have examples or a more specific solution, but just saying get rid of the problematic cards and stop making them feels unsatisfactory and it doesn't feel good to have cards you invested in lose its value by a ban list. It's not particularly helpful to have someone say "stop doing this" when it comes to a very complex system.
It was a nice video though. the problems listed were very well explained which, at least, makes finding a solution easier.
I kept it vague because it is a complicated thing to fix. Right now, the 2 biggest problems are delay and the trash. Breeding is starting to be a bigger problem thanks to ukkomon but I do feel like the problems are in their infancy where if they limit specific cards and not design cards similar to the limited ones the game would be better for it.
I think the best way to fix delay is to take a page from recovery and put more limitations on the delay triggers. If they had more of a strick trigger timing (like the opponent needing a level 6 digimon) then that would limit their impact.
Then, to fix trash, we need more cards in the game like rb01 blackgato that can pick apart the opponents trash. I know we are getting paladin mode ace as another card to hose on the trash. Maybe a floodgate that affects the trash doesn't trigger. There are a lot of ways to do it depending on what they want the expected outcome to be.
The design ethos of Digimon has always fascinated me, mostly because in other card games, a set is designed around a game mechanic or, like you said with Magic, introducing a core and answers surrounding it. Digimon clearly dont do this, or at least not to such a degree as others. Instead they set out with the intention of designing mechanics around a featured Digimon. Before we rarely got "generic" cards and instead, filler cards would either be support for older decks or blank filler cards. The design ethos is still to focus on these archetypes/tribes and as the game goes on it introduces more tools for the deck to use. If I was designing solutions to answer the generic issues, I would start leaning more into these specific archetypes and how they can answer them with the tools they have.
I agree for the most part. But as someone whom has played yu-gi-oh in the past, I'm afraid too much interaction on your opponents turn is a bad thing. Also, integrating those type of interactions as generic support like scramble, training etc could make the game more unbalanced. While weaker decks have the option to disrupt a strong opponent, strong meta decks have even more tools now to make rogue and non-meta decks even less playable. The only way I could see strong interactions on your opponents turn work, is if the delay effect of such option has activation restrictions that let you only activate the effect if your boardstate is weak, for instance; 'opponents turn' delay - when an opponents digimon digivolves and you dont have a level 5 or higher digimon in play, one of your opponents digimon can't activate 'when digivolving' effects for the rest of the turn
By interaction, I don't necessarily mean on the opponents turn. The idea is to take something (like delay options sitting on the field that I can not do ANYTHING about) and have a way to get rid of it.
@@Xanitsu Delay effects only come in a handful of flavors so far, memory gain, cost reduction, and in some cases the ability to play digimon by effects. All 3 of these can be handled with cards that indirectly interact with the delay effect without removing the card itself, which I really think creates more interesting counter play than just trashing a delay option off the board. For decks that rely on delay effects for a big pay off, like Royal Knights or Four Great Dragons it would feel especially bad to just lose your 6-8 memory of value with no opportunity for counter play. I can tech a deck to delete floodgates but I cant replay options from the trash
They talked about that in the video, you just want till you draw something to stop the floodgates. I understand because my opponents hate when they check my security and hit like 3 delay options.
@PetenarYT floodgates are nice, and what we have can slow down the delay options, but they don't stop the inevitability of the option is still an issue. Most decks don't run a lot of floodgates because they can not afford the space, and not all colors have equal access to all floodgates they are not a reliable solution, especially when low level removal is so easy/common that they don't matter. Most decks can only afford to play a few floodgates because they are not advancing your deck at all and are match us specific vs having more deck space dedicated to the delay options because they are helping the deck in every match up. We need more than just floodgates to stop delayed options because they are not effective enough at being a good solution.
OK on the point of interaction Yu-Gi-Oh is an extreme example,
and Yu-Gi-Oh problem isn’t necessarily it has too much interaction but rather players can get access to all their pieces too fast so they’ll have all interactions immediately available.
basically Yu-Gi-Oh!‘s speed mix OK things suddenly problems, not Vice versa,
And for generic support listen the meta decks are getting supported and going to get these OP effects anyway, just so long as the generic support is either just underneath or equal to the top decks it isn’t going to push them any higher unless it’s literally something they don’t have access to needlessly
Honestly sounds like you want to go back to bt1 and have it stay there.
That is not what I am saying at all.
Sounds like you don't know how to process information without bias or emotions. *Insert Karen vs Cat meme* how dare someone speak truth about a game, let alone anything at all because you don't like it.
@@lyteskys1 not really sure what's emotional or bias about my message. I took 27 min of complaining and summarized it into what I think they want. The good ol days when there wasn't color identity.
But I told you that is not what I want. What made you think that is what I wanted when I never said that?
@@Xanitsuafter watching your video again, I'm not sure what you're saying.
What are your thoughts on if they remove the free draw mechanic when you digivolve?
I like the evolution bonus as too much of the games design is based around it and can make for even more non games, which is what they were trying to get rid of.
Honestly, I'm having fun messing around with different decks. The meta hasn't really been something I really care about. One of the main things I picked up this game for was the lack of interaction compared to yugioh
Ban Ukkomon(s)
I dunno, game swings wildly for me between fun and infuriating and it mostly depends on the matchup, which admittedly I don't have a good answer for. When I sit down at the table as looga and see my opp evo a syakko, I might as well scoop. Similarly, if you are playing, say, bloom into anything like yellow, you're probably toasted. Again, I don't really have an answer for this.
And let's not forget how many decks you just can't bring to even locals without a gentleman's agreement to play tier 4fun. All in all though I will say it is actually a semi decent format right now, ironically enough.
Shoot the super patamon though for yellow vax; card is turbo aids. Also limit emissary of hope; evo into a level 5/6 for 1 cost and recovery multiple times a game? It's worse design than fuckin hpd, and hpd is at 1. Yellow was a mistake; it's not unbeatable, but it's by far the most "you will not have fun" color to play against.
Yea man. Magna x in the next set is pretty bad. That specific card is cancer. Patamon can go into it as well as the Rapid x smh…..no thank you
Thankfully I think yellow armors will get patamon limited, so we can only hope. If you aren't playing yellow you just auto lose for the next like 2 or 3 formats, very unfun.
*Me looking at the footage used, disregarding all opinion* Yeah, the Schmeat is the problem!
Hmm, I quite disagree with your statement about deck balance and tier list. On the Japanese side though, currently, I think it balances quite well the tier kinda blends in and even tier 2 deck can fight on par with the meta tier deck depending on the situation and archetype.
But totally agree about the stable delay they should limit or semi-limit training card already, the card is just too brainless and eats up the deck slot for every normal lv-up deck which really make no deck differentiation IMO.
Bt17 introduced the most annoying option card, that basically forced blast digivolve upon removal. There is no longer any play around against blast digivolve except de-digivolving.
The meta has become so board unfriendly, they made blue and red hybrid good.
Ukko being banned is fine but too much interaction and the game playing faster is fine so long as other decks get love to play at that speed
I disagree with parts of this video, but there are very valid points that are here. It very easily can be that I haven't plaid against those decks you listed as problems at the time, but having a clear best deck isn't necessarily a bad thing in my opinion. Having a deck to always keep in mind of to build around only leads to some decks becoming more relevant than they would if those decks weren't issues. An example of this is Gallantmon in the recent regional. The deck was a meta call against all the other decks that had several small bodies for them to delete. I mean, yeah they didn't run into red hybrid, but it was an overall good answer to the majority of decks. Second, I feel like interacting with delays sounds like a good thing, but ultimately, would hurt the game. Within the upcoming sets, delays are used in more ways other than send to trash, gain resources. They are also being used as ways for decks to have some board presence even if a big card was removed (like the legends arms option) or another way for decks to have a way to blast (like crimson savior). Additionally, you say that a floodgate can just be removed and be just as dangerous, but there are many situations that a card would've been more useful if it could've been used at a specific moment rather than later due to a floodgate. Also, people aren't using non-delay options as much I feel is more due to the fact that there are no other generic search options to use. With tamers, I completely agree. Tamer interactivity really shouldn't but put to a minimum because they are continually useful. If they were to make a delay option that has its second effect returns a tamer to the hand if your opponent preforms a certain action. Trash is definitely something more decks need to interact with, and the scramble cards are a good start, and not having many generic ways to interact with the trash is also bad thing, making some decks overtly overturned, like anubis. Security effects on options always is unfair. I with more cards could be like heavens judgement than wyverns breath in terms of strength to main effect to option effect. I feel that your point on tempo is fairly nuanced. Many decks abuse the fact that they can play cards for nearly no cost but have a stipulation, like Jesmon or Fish. However, they thought that for whatever reason, they should have cards that play out a certain color, like Leopardmon or Anubismon. And while Leopard never saw a high amount of success, Anubis became a monster because they didn't put any negatives on the card. I feel that having ways of only working with 1 memory isn't inherently a bad thing, but overabundance in a singular deck. For instance, Jesmon very seldomly works with 1 memory, but when it does it generates an absurd amount of materials, but anubis can do a similar thing to that but almost every turn. Also, the staples in YuGiOh and the staples in Digimon are I feel are nearly incomparable because one is used to interact with the opponent and the other creates advantage, though I do think both should be restricted in some way. I feel that your solutions are becoming more realized in further sets like EX6 and BT17, where most cards are not even close to being generic and if they are, its only to benefit in more minor ways than generate chunks of advantage. Overall good video, just not one I completely agree with.
Maybe the digimon game could try things like Magics multi choice spells? IE, a blue one could be either strip 2 sources from a digimon or clear your opponents trash, maybe even both with a same colored tamer or a certain level digimon on the feild?
I agree more interaction is better. I don't think the game is as bad as it was during bt9-bt12~ when everything was based on safe OTK strats with no counterplay. ACE cards resolved a lot of my issues with the game as they added interactivity. I wonder if option cards that had a delay (opponent's turn) effect could help?
While I do agree interactivity is good, I don't want to go too far in that direction, you definitely need a fine balance. The reason I say that is because a lot of games I've seen recently end with like 5~ cards in each player's deck depending on the matchup. The more you have chances to stop the opponent's plays, the less security on both sides will dwindle, and the more likely the game will end with a deckout.
I've been playing the gane for about a year, and SecCon decks have been a major pain. And they frustrate me & my friends for the exact reason you mentioned.
The balance may not be perfect. At least they actually got rid of the most problematic card like Apocalymon (Not really, but thanks to that you won't often see him as before). If Apocalymon was still at 4 I'm afraid the game would've died long time ago.
I can see where you are coming from even if I disagree with it. In my opinion the generic stables mak decks that had no chance of victory without their next wave of support viable to play and mostly competitive. Look at Jessmon for example.
I do believe though that Bandai needs a middle ground between limiting to 1 and outright banning cards. They should also semi limit cards to 2. Cards like GreymonX aren't as destructive as they were back when it was banned and could easily be placed at 2 without burning everything down.
In my opinion Aces are some of the best additions theyve added. Because they are generic and fairly usable which makes expensive options and plays doable again with the overflow in mind.
I kinda feel mixed here. On one, the game is lasting well and like the card variation. But also... I fear the tempo tamers are never going to be a suggestion, trash play, and super swings of resources.
But hey... as long as the games are not over in 2 player turns I can see hope.
Im kinda new to the game but from my experience, tamers are a huge problem. They do too much over time but are so necessary for many decks that when a deck can consustently get rid of them, i hate the deck. Blackwargreymon for example waa really good at it and i hated it so much
I do agree to manage a way to counter recovery but I do not agree to remove the whole RNG part of it since for me that's what makes the game special in the first place-the sense of anticipation and reward of coming trough it or hitting something that would allow the player to comeback like Vanguard Does.
I have less problem with the free stuff since bandai has printed some generic support here and there for tons of colors that can help decks that aren't archetype specific or meta relevant to get a little push; My complains are more trough the speed of the game going pretty wild like you said
Also agree on having ways to interact with the trash-hand-etc, no so much with delayed options altrough I can understand it
On the Staple cards subject, the thing is Digimon does it way better than Yugioh cause the second one is ten times about giving you a way to turn around the game/shut down the player in a 3 turns game than the first one that is more focused on helping you set up your plays faster which is way more reasonable and helps everyone even non meta decks
You can make the case for things like DeathX or Junomon but the first one was played not as intended by the developers which is more on the players but that's labing for ya
PD: Yes there where meta relevant cards back in the game existence for each color: Beelzemon, Lilithmon, Blinding Light, 4 tamer T.K, ST Greymon-Gaia Force and Tai comes to mind; The thing was that the set up to get this plays done weren't as consistent as it's now since searchers where pretty rare back in the day
Cheers lad
I read in the comments that you started working on video during ex5 and before any of the bt17 and ex6 reveals were fully fleshed out. I think the timing of when you released this video and the lack of explanation of where this video comes is making people jump to assumptions about your thoughts as a whole since they are including future card knowledge while digiesting your video. I think for the future maybe doing a disclosure will kinda curb that while not comprising the core of your video.
That is fair. I didn't think of doing that.
All in all, I think the state right now actually good enough, if you see recent sets they did address the concern you have stated.
While I do agree that they shouldn't release too much delay cards, I feel like the pace of one type every year is okay.
I agree that we haven't seen much of trash disruption, lore wise it should be possible to do that maybe in form of holy digimon or maybe some digimon that consume trash data?
The bad point I want to bring up is the cheating of hatching cycle, such as Analog Youth, Mimi, Ukkomon.
These are not good for the game in the slightest, but I still don't think they should include something to hate on or interact with raising.
It can risk breaking the game and makes for unfun interaction since raising is a crucial zone to fight back.
There are some good ones to consider too:
They up the power of deck specific option cards, or even removal option and they legit compete slot with the said "staple" cards, and its a good sign.
They added more ways to interact with tamers, each set from BT14 actually included them while still keeping them to color identity What I meant by that is currently, most tamer interaction comes from the color black and purple, which I think is fine for their color niche.
Good video, now redact it in the official surveys so you can reach Bandai! Power to you pal!
I definitely agree. I feel like the effects that make the game frustrating are total protection (Mother D-Reaper), protection until use (BT9 Greymon X-Antibody), lack of interaction between Tamers and Delay cards. I'm fine with the breeding having no interaction just because you also get nothing while digivolving there. Not a fan of free hatching/moving out (Mimi, Ukkomon, etc)
If Mother D-Reaper didn't have any protection the Deck would be unplayable. You would never ever get Reaper out. Mother D-Reaper needs that protection. Every Deck plays some sort or removal, bounce to hand, minus DP, suspend (+ bounce or bottom deck), straight up deletion, ...
Mother D-Reaper already has the restriction, so you cannot attack with her and all effects are 1/turn.
Mother D-Reaper and BT13 Craniamon are the most balanced omni-protection Digimon in the entire game.
The complaints about security effects and security manipulation don’t make sense with your complaints about big turns due to trainings, boosts, and delay effects. Security decks try to recover enough to not get blown out.
I also don’t understand your complaints about shifts in tempo and staples. You bring in a lot of examples from other TCGs and highlight them. Shouldn’t you just go play those TCGs if you enjoy those mechanics? I don’t mean that maliciously, I’m just having difficulty understanding your complaints.
I don’t think Digimon will ever be less enjoyable or more frustrating than YGO or MTG (in terms of interactions)-after all, a lot of us are refugees from those games because we were exhausted with unbeatable boards and constant “you can’t do that” interactions.
I think the solution to some of these complaints is be patient and wait for the upcoming sets and I hope you find your enjoyment again. Thanks for the insightful thoughts!
So with staples, the thing is that I don't enjoy them because they are heavily warping the around them. Yugioh and Dragon Ball super are 2 examples of how staples warp the game and not for the better IMO. Why would I ever want to play those games if I don't like staples when those games are focused around the use of their staples?
With tempo, the issue is that cards/decks are doing too much for too little. Yellow, as an example, can climb all the way up from a level 3 to a level 6 and not pass turn, which not many decks in the game can do. This is a problem because decks that can not compete with that level of speed become borderline unplayable. This makes it harder to design cards because they now have to match or exceed that speed. They used to design a playline that opperate on 3 memory insentivising the use of memory tamers, but now decks can opperate on 1 memory, needing even less to get a higher output. The issue with staples are that these decks that are operating this fast without them now can move even faster as they were not initially designed to be this fast. Green suffered a lot because they did design around HPD being a card, and when they stopped, HPD became better. If most of the cards on the ban and restricted list were because they offered too much tempo, why are they constantly making more knowing that it is an issue?
As far as recovery again, the issue is doing too much for too little. Security decks try to stall the game more than win the game and hope RNG works out in their favor, taking the skill aspect out of the equation. MTG learned the wrong use of RNG is not what players want, which is why they rarely do card that involve coin flips and dice rolls. Recovery and security manipulation need to be more limited in what it can do because it is just that much stronger of a mechanic than most other mechanics in the game. Just look at JetSilphymon's reasons as that card almost catabolised yellow as a color because of how good it is.
I hope that answers your questions better. If not, I might need to make a video or podcast episode to better explain it.
@@Xanitsu Appreciate the response, that does make a bit more sense. I would like to add to the discussion here and say that I think just about every color can Digi up to LV 6 with 1 memory when utilizing the trainings and the boosts. They were printed in every color so every deck has access to them otherwise one color would be overly busted, of course.
I think you should definitely make a video on staples. There has been a call to restrict Ukkomon for his potency and tempo swings. Personally, I think he's fine if every deck has access to him. Just my 2 cents.
Name 1 staple card that goes in every deck
For any stack based deck, that is the training cards without a shadow of a doubt.
For non stack based decks that usually goes to ukkomon (who is also used in some stack based decks too but not all the time).
There are stack decks that definitely dont use training but your complaint was that it makes deck prices go up the average cost of the trainings is $5.88 which I would say is far from expensive. And there about to reprint them. I will give you ukkomon tho but it's probably gonna get hit soon lol.
But I do agree that there should be way to intract with tamers more there are already to to intract with delay effect. Most delay cards are stopped by flood gates
@hinymyster what traditional stack deck doesn't want or use the training cards?
I don't think flood gates are enough to stop delay cards. I also wouldn't label that as interaction either.
But both ukkomon rookie cards are stupid, and I am curious what bandai will hit next when that time comes.
From what I have seen beelzemon still prefers to run the mist boost I can think of others but I don't think there traditional stack building. My main thing is I don't want the game to become yugioh where the whole game is not letting your opponent play the game
I do feel like a lot of the delay options are getting out of hand. Trainings and boosts in particular feel extremely awful. Especially when you see multiple in play, knowing that unless you can kill them that turn or you have a way to block them off, your opponent is gonna make sure that you get punished hard for not doing so. While I would be extremely okay with both boosts and trainings being limited to 1. An alternative solution could be that you can only have 1 delay option in play at a time, unless they have different names, and any others just get their search effects but don't get placed in battle area. So you could have 1 training and 1 boost, but not 2 trainings or 2 boosts. Could also limit how explosive turns can be by making it so you can only use 1 delay effect per turn.
Something I want to bring attention to are protection effects. There's so many running around, that it makes certain cards/decks never see the light of day. Remember EX1 Machinedramon? The card had to be built around in a particular way for it to function. Now modern decks get protection while not having their consistency hit. In the current state of the game, soft removal (keeping a card suspended, de digivolve, stun, etc) is the better kind of removal (other than player removal). Magnamon X from BT16 in particular is absurd, if you take 1 hit or your opponent uses blinding rays, you literally cannot touch it for a full cycle, and it'll constantly be refreshing itself unless it hits a bomb on the first check when it's vulnerable. It's just not healthy overall for the game, I wouldn't mind if most of these protection effect digimon were all limited to 1(with the exception being Machinedramon cards as they sacrifice speed, consistency, and a lot of memory for it. But also because I'm biased), especially when Dorugreymon was hit to 1 because there was very little you could do against it at the time.
Are you including the D Police protection which hinges on you having extra D BRIGADE in play to delete instead?
What's your thoughts on Scapegoat (keyword), which is the same thing but colour specific?
Agree.
IMO we needed drawbacks instead of counter plays
I would agree normally however from a design perspective whenever over tcgs reprint cards with a different text (to retroactively change them) they get community backlash from collectors, so in terms of realistic solutions Bandai might implement counter play is the most feasible.
@@clarkecreates Now it's too late for sure. But then again, YGO has had erratas and it never posed any real problem. If anything the older text prints become more expensive. And then, with counters, it becomes a cat and mouse game which is the opposite of "being in control".
I'm not trying to be mean but this guy sounds like jar jar from star wars always adding 'ah' at the end of every word😂. great video tho really good points😊
I've been saying for a while now that the trash needs to be nerfed. Purple decks crushing in the meta because there is very little that can punish their trash.
Premade decks would help balance the game. Not just with the premade decks concept alone but what we'd learn about what decks like how strong they are compared to other decks and what cards may need a ban or limit and what decks needs support.
Using a casual premade decks format will not be perfect but as people play they'd learn what decks need to be modified to be more balanced.
Also players will be able to add their own deck creations which can be tested by other players to see if there are changes needed to be done in order to add more variety in decks selection.
the amount of "uh"s in this video broke me around the 10min mark x.x
Sorry, I will try to do better at editing them out.
The issue with the boost+trainings is they provide consistency+speed. But in terms of advantage for the winning player they become a win more and a insurance in case of a tempo swing. For the losing/bricking player its meant to help come back. If they were meant purely to come back then I would find them more fair overall. Like another commenter said "if opponent has a lv5 or higher you can activate [delay]". So if we added delay removal then it would lead to the win more player putting down the player just trying to unbrick and make a comeback that isn't relied on a bad security swing.
So potentially perhaps ban those cards and add a Ride deck of sorts like in Vanguard where your first lv3-6 stack is free to use as a separate deck but add stipulation like no draw for evo if you evo from this ride deck cause bricking immediately from the start already sets up your opponent for a free win. Side decks are also something to think about but that can also let better decks win more even if it lets lower tier decks add counter play per matchup.
I do like the idea of limitations put on delays as they are clearly over tuned for the problem they are fixing.
NO BAN LIST META
Preface: I stopped paying nearly as much attention to this game a year ago, and my understanding of the current meta is bare bones at best. My complaints may no longer be valid.
My big issue was that the devs don’t have strong rules for which abilities show up primarily and secondarily across colors. Red quickly turned into “Green but better” and Purple is often a better Blue (when it comes to draw and removal). Blue Source Strip was strong, then it was nerfed into the ground. I’ve played a few games of MirageGaogamom but apparently that deck has also been nerfed/ power crept(?)
Funny enough Yellow keeping security recovery mostly to itself is something I’m iffy on. On one hand, giving every color good security recovery would make Sec Con even stronger (and it just won worlds)
On the other hand, keeping such a useful ability in one color is risky if the other colors don’t have a good way to manage. I know Red has ADP, apparently Black now has a few “On Attack: Trash a security” effects, Purple tries to spam bodies faster than Sec Con can recover. Do Blue, Green, or Black have anything in this category?
Also, I know it’s an easy meme to say “Grey(mon) is the best color” but on a long enough time scale most colors should be able to achieve keyword soup on a level 5 or 6 with multi color digimon and the frequent color pie breaks
Yeah, I get what you mean. They should have had a stricter color pie to help players understand the strengths and weakness of decks better. Their loose approach was because they went more into archetype and tribes.
what got me out of the game was the flood of products so that the english market would catch up to the japanese market. Also that every chase card was an omnimon for a while there.
Catching up to Japan is smart
@@richardshiflett5181 they just did it way too quickly. it was really hard to keep up with it
Unification is going to be a thing as of next year. Our pace has not changed. If anything, JP is slowing down this year to let us catch up.
Adore Digimon, but the game has often struggled with that power level leap between decks.
Well done for actually speaking out! (I imagine knowing many would lambast you for it)
I would love to talk to you more about this. I have data from this past month. From players and store owners about the state of the game. I was able to go to 6 different locals on 6 different days for 5 weeks going on 6 weeks. I have everything from deck data and why, down to these 6 stores sales and event numbers. I must say you just scratched the surface. Store owners are not happy with bandai, players are becoming so toxic that they are killing their communities. State of things are not good. Bt9 was a better status then now and that says something.
Sure, hop into my discord.
discord.com/invite/dj6DMGx6cS
4 minutes ago...okay
edit:
hm..interesting video. I have thoughts, but I'm tired I probably wouldn't be able to express them well....
just in case I forget to come back I will say these things
1. game balance is hard. one seemingly small change that no one sees as a problem and is even tested by a small group can become a game changer when released to the public. i saw it happen before. was wild
2. how big is the internal testing team? who comprises the internal testing team? what is the ratio of cauals, competitive players, and devs? all this is important when it comes to balance testing.
3. in terms of you wanting extra interactions: heck yeah, I think those extra interactions are dope. my favorite decks are interactive decks. we are seeing more zone interactions (more breeding area and security "deck", as well as more hand discard) being worked on . however, those interactions bring about more potential game breaks, and without a good testing environment those game breaking cards WILL become more prevalent whether Bamco or the community want them or not.
huh...i think I did explain some things well after all
overall good video. good things to point out. this situation wont be an easy thing to answer, it will take time...and lot and lots of needed testing.
The only problem I have with the game right now is ACE cards. Everything else feels perfectly fine. There’s so many situations where you can’t play around an ACE (arguably more than when you can in my opinion). You shouldn’t be able to use them for free on your opponent’s turn because the overflow mechanic is not an effective enough deterrent to not play them in my experience. Being able to draw a card, build your board presence and disrupt your opponent entirely for free on their turn is not good or fun game design. MegaGargomon ACE is probably the biggest offender I’ve seen of this. It’s disgustingly oppressive and the fact it can come off of a four is even worse.
I have no problems with anything else. Purple being able to play from the trash all the time is over tuned, but they’re working on it. Security and recovery mechanics are perfectly fine. In a game where aggro is a perfectly viable mechanic you need life gain to help keep them in check.
Other than ACEs the game is perfectly fine.
ppl said this game is easy to play ect i call bullcrap me and a friend tried to play so many roadblocks the chaining stuff and keywords is too much its going to end up like yu gi oh 😂😂
I mostly agree with the points you raised here. I want to see all the memory boosts, trainings, and scrambles banned outright. More interaction against opponent's trash and tamers in EVERY COLOR, not just my beloved purple. And finally more floodgate rookies in more colors. I want to see rookies that make activating option effects cost memory, rookies that stop cards from leaving the trash, and rookies that cap how many cards you can draw in a turn.
Most likely none of that will happen though. And all that said, I honestly don't think the game is in too bad of a state right now. There's still tons of diversity in builds and the current top decks don't feel completely without answer. I hate the design direction we've gone in, but so far it hasn't killed the game for me.
I agree with a lot of the ideas you have.
I don't think the game is ruined or the meta is bad ATM either, and that was not the point of the video it was more design focused , and I feel they had made some questionable choices. I would like to see them work it to make the game better, which is all and why I made the video.
Thank you!
Bandai just needs to stop making over powered cards for yellow and purple. There are no other colors that have that much power.
nah if anything just bring other cards up to that level. Leviamon is fun and every color should be just as competitively viable.
Yellow hasn’t been that competitive in a while (yes shine but that’s it) Purple just got really strong the last couple of sets but its color use decreases in BT16
@@FirstLast-ns2ce you clearly are missing the point.
It is not about those colors in specific. Yes, they can be problematic in the long run, but if they are broken, they are broken, no matter the color. The problem with Apocalymon is not that decks had access to cycling, is that it is a 3 cost lvl7 that can have any on play in the game and mills 8 each turb
@@VindeZwarts I think you just clearly misspoke, you only mentioned two colors, even saying there are “no other colors that have that much power” which I addressed. Your statement is just simply untrue
This game needs major improvements how the mulligan system works. You should not regularly get a worse hand after mulliganing and straight up not be able to play because oops your mulligan gave you an unplayable hand.
If you're mulling and are regularly getting worse hands that's a deck building issue
@@garylasorella7997 Doesn't matter how much you try to optimize your deck if RNG doesn't favor you and you open no lv3s or all lv5s because RNG is a thing.
@elin111 I I understand it will happen at times.
But if it's happening more often than mulling into playable hands than it may not be the fault of the mull system
Why do you end certain words with 'a'? the first time-a', 'bt06-a gabubond', etc. Honestly it's super annoying
Turn it off then. Easy fix
lmao never noticed until this comment, now i canta unhear it >.
Sorry. It's hard to control that as it is how I read out loud. It is the disconnect my brain has with my mouth as it is processing what is coming next.
@@Xanitsu it’s all good, I’m sure no one really minds except my boy A A Ron here
@@XanitsuAppreciate the explanation! I respect your honesty. 🙂