I still remember when I first listened to the Gould 1981 recording.. Without knowing Gould nor the Variations, and looking for some 'background music' for whatever I was doing, I said.. 'let's just check this out'.. I was expecting something 'normal' but the Aria hooked me, I had to sit down and listen to it. What followed was at times very fast! But the feeling of that Aria continued to resonate for the whole 50 minutes.
People can criticise Gould for whatever, but there is an intensity in his playing which is completely captivating and mermerising, and which is utterly unique to him.
A RUclips channel , the Music Professor, recently discussed Gould's claim about Mozart. He said that while Gould was technically brilliant, his didn't perform mozart that well. The late harpsicordist Scott Ross commented (in French) that Gould was a nutcase who didn't understand Bach at all. Seymour Bernstein thinks Gould never played anything beautifully. In the case of Bach, Berstein said "I don't hear Bach, all I hear is Gould." Gould's love for experiment in music was such that, sometimes, he went opposoite direction to what the composer intended, or even to the very nature of that music. If he disregarded the conventional tempo of a piece of music, which he sometimes did, it was because he was freely experimenting on the piece. He didn't care about the critics and didn't care whether he was doing things "correctly".
Additionally, Glenn Gould took heat for playing J S Bach in a non-legato style that C P E Bach (technically following performance practice as described) and Mozart's playing style was quoted likewise later when Legato style became the flavor of the era, was accused of choppy playing.
Czerny on Beethoven acknowledged that the Moonlight Sonata was no longer playable as written for the sustain pedal in later years, there's a date but that's not so much of importance, but rather an acknowledgement of Czerny of Beethoven's marks. Thus Czerny's recollection had to tempered and adapted over time to "work" with the pianos current at the time of the each his edition of publication was printed. My opinion, for what it's worth, as Czerny lived through the rapid evolution of the Fortepiano into the mid-century 19th Century Pianoforte, Czerny adapted/changed the MM marks legato phrasing, sustain pedal, and MM for Beethoven to make sense with the instruments as Czerny knew them to make sense with the instrument. By the first decades of the 19th in Vienna there were over 100 different piano manufacturers. Paris, and London were similar and with the change from home salon entertainment to progressively larger concert venues thePianos changed. I've read, but yet to find an example, that the registers found on Viennese Pianos and abandoned after the fall of the Ottoman Empire, were still found in American Square Pianos decades afterwards. The circa 1902 American Thayer Upright Grand Piano, my first instrument had both an Una Corda Pedal, plus the middle pedal slide a soft leather (like chamois) between the hammer and the strings, as well as the ever present and over used Sustain pedal. Most Grand pianos have the Sostenuto Pedal (required for playing the WTC Pt A minor Fugue, if not a third arm) most likely made popular by Piano transcriptions of the early 20th Century for the low organ pedal note held). Curiously enough my current U-1 Yamaha upright has felt instead (and is incredibly nostalgic) for quiet practicing, however I can play loud enough for to mimic the buff stop on a harpsichord. An understood performance practice from Beethoven's early period, FF and Sforzando both automatically when there was a corresponding change in dynamics (Sfz-p, FF-pp) that the louder dynamic had the sustain pedal depressed and released with quieter dynamic indications, this was used for two reasons, one for larger tonal effect, and to prevent breaking hammers. My piano teacher shared an anecdote, but a young hopeful nascent virtuoso played for Franz Liszt, and the newbie pianists broke a hammer and then apologized to the virtuoso, with Liszt kindly saying something like he wished he could break all the hammers. Broken hammers might also be a reason for the mitigated by Viennese Piano technique (not that much different from C P E Bach, Forkel's description of W F Bach's clavichord technique, or Tuerk as neither harpsichord or clavichord had "double escapement". Christina Kobb (Norwegian Pianist) quotes Czerny which made a convincing argument for learning some basics of playing before reading music: ‘The notes existed before the scores’ [Die Töne waren eher da, als die Noten] Carl Czerny: Briefe über den Unterricht auf dem Pianoforte vom Anfange bis zur Ausbildung (Vienna: Diabelli, 1839), pp. 4-5. Kobb's doctoral dissertation refers both to the Piano posture taught in Vienna as part of the Viennese forte piano technique in contrast with the modern piano. (Don't share this with my wife, she maintains I have poor posture in general)... As to Glenn Gould and Wim Winters, piano tempi as with many things involved in music has a great deal of lethargy. What gradually occurred with piano performances becoming faster (contrary to the dogma Ex Cathedra from Piano Academia apologists), subsequently gave way to precisely (and over edited) "instructional editions" which by contrast Czerny editions are almost Urtext by comparison, to Play every indication on the edited score, even written out (and incorrect) ornaments, to the return to Urtext editions (which are summarily also ignored). I am not against personal expression, just lack of research (musicology and performance practice). It's a shame Chopin died before the completion of his piano tutor. There's Chopin Piano Method channel. Of the Chopin method that came to be better known recently plus the few contemporary sketches (not Romanticized paintings contradict contradict the current Piano practice of the flat finger technique. I would say that the iconography of Chopin, that's not after the fact or romanticized, isn't that much different from Franz Liszt's drawings conteporary, although Chopin's fingers are a tad more curved, Liszt fingers are more relaxed and slanted. The Liszt hand position changes to flat fingers only in the very late in life photographs. I willing to bet that the likes of Seymour Bernstein wouldn't appreciate my observation that Chopin was unlikely to have played with flat, elongated fingers upon the pads of the fingers..
Gould's 1981 recording of the Goldberg Variations is so wise and profound -- reminding me of the later works of Shakespeare. Long before I ever heard of whole-beat, I was deeply satisfied with the contemplative tempo of the opening Aria and the incredible beauty of this music.
I have BOTH recordings, and they are BOTH about equal in time overall. He did speed up some parts. I have a sneaking suspicion/suspition/suspision that they had to "make it fit". This has been my hypo-thesis all along.
I'm not so interested in this discussion. The Aria is too slow, the Brahms is too slow and the Appassionata is too slow, but it is good marketing - look what we are talking about.
In case anyone still has any doubts: Minute 01:04 of the RUclips video with this title: "I never understood why you can't go faster than light - until now!"
Those who don’t understand it are the ones who want to play faster. They’ll never manage to play at more than a certain speed, which in many cases doesn’t even reach twice the indicated tempo, but they don’t care because they don’t understand anything.
Gould did not play everything slow, he set his own tempos. You can't compare him to anyone and that's what made him special and most important he had one of the greatest technique and clarity at the piano.
People who believe Beethoven's "crazy" tempo markings were a glimpse into the future should try composing their own piano sonata! They could include some outlandish tempos, like quarter note = 1138. Then they, too, could be hailed as visionaries!
Leonard Bernstein, in a preamble before a session with Glenn Gould, explained succinctly when he said Mr Gould's virtuosity and imagination are such that when he sits at the piano, you can never be quite sure what will happen! Organist tempi? 1950s Cochereau, slow; Schweitzer, slowest, to the modern thoroughbreds. IMO, VARIETY is the spice of music. And I also believe that if Bach was seated at the organ of say Liverpool Anglican cathedral and Beethoven at a modern concert grand piano in a good acoustic, we would hear recognisable but subtly different music from that to which we have become accustomed via electronic recordings.
lol, it's not a trap, it's called a good title/thumbnail :-). And it's even true, I'm notsaying I am famous (period). But known for the same thing, yes.
@@thomashughes4859 hmmm so what you are saying is that a 'pace' is 2 steps, so the music should be played at half speed, while they still 'step' at 120 steps per minute, right? ... I'm not entirely convinced guys hahaha.
@@robertjahn8498 Hmmm... Seems I've always heard about the pace of the music, not its step, so why do you play music twice as rapidly, if you even can?
If I had to listen to Gould, I would much prefer his 1955 version of the Goldberg variations. If you want to hear the Aria played almost twice as fast as Gould's 1981 recording, you don't have to speed it up digitally (25:40), just look in YT for his 1955 recording! You might also look for Wilhelm Kempff's interesting version, played at around quarter = 69, but without many of the ornaments.
I listened, very nice. I think ornaments and grace notes work with a much slower tempo. I'd like to hear a comparison..(I think Wim did this soemwhere on this channel...but he has so many videos...!)
@@awfulgoodmovies On a harpsichord they are needed, though. Listen to Helmut Walcha, who chooses a sensible moderate tempo. It is interesting what a wide range of tempi work for this aria. However, Gould 1981, and his model Rosalyn Tureck, drag along the bottom of the range. Do listen to Tureck, though, for a more sensitive version of the ultra-slow Gould.
Composers face a dilemma: write a slow piece, and performers might speed it up to showcase their virtuosity. Write a fast piece, and they might slow it down because it's too difficult. It's as if performers feel the need to "fix" the composer's supposed "errors."
Glenn Gould could play the A minor invention in Cyborg Speed...and many years ago I heard a performance of the G major prelude of WTC Pt 2 by Gould that was to borrow a term from Physics "Damn Fast."
I always thought Glenn Gould was a composer who should have composed and performed a lot less. He did have an incredible technique but I have never liked his playing.
Glenn Gould wasn't crazy or eccentric (any more than any other childhood prodigy), however his popularity of the Goldberg variations and his technique gave him some clout that few other pianists would ever had dare attempt to "poke the bear." Rather in his writing said of his tempi, etc. what could he bring to a piece (generally "war horse" compositions) that was a new approach. Yes he played a Contrapuntus from Die Kunst der Fuge in Moscow in 1957 at very fast tempi (and myself a strict believer in performance practice, it worked) but played the other two pieces in correct Tempo Ordinario speed. "Gould play both early and late Scriabin pieces, yet totally ignored Chopin except a single radio performance of the 3rd Chopin Sonata, "just to amuse myself or to irritate my friends". According to many analysts, the early work of Scriabin betrays the influence of Chopin - a fondness for languorous cantilenas and noodling alto-tenor figurations, but if it does then surely Chopin with a difference! The worthy Frédéric scarcely ever kept a large-scale structure going with the impetus Scriabin gives to this sonata..." (liner notes to his recording of Prokofiev's Sonata no. 7 and Scriabin's Sonata no.3) Gould promoted Renaissance Composers which he performed in concert, Virginalists such as Byrd, Gibbons, and Organist Sweelinck, he recorded the complete Liszt transcriptions for solo piano of the Beethoven Symphonies, made his own transcriptions of music by Wagner, Ravel and Richard Strauss. Gould also played modern (dissonant cr@p) plus some avant garde composers in concert (Schoenberg, Berg, Webern), and premiered a then recently discovered unknown Piano work by Wagner. Gould at that time was noted he played Beethoven Sonatas which at that time was as big a mainstay as Beethoven has become today. Gould complemented and identified with then called Walter (Wendy) Carlos performance on Moog Synthesizer and Eight/16 track tape deck for Switched On Bach Album (sometimes called SOB), and felt a kinship as both Carlos and Gould played the works of J S Bach on instruments never written for. The 1722 before G. Silbermann started experimenting with Cristofori's fortepiano action and 1744 Well Tempered Clavier lack any indication of dynamics, the Clavier Uebung Pt two and the Goldberg Variations (although Bach self published he never called the Aria with variations Pt four) are four two manual harpsichords, Pt 3 is for organ, and the manuscripts in J S Bach or family members hand list the French and also later the Italian words for harpsichord. J S Bach's favorite instrument in his last years (he commissioned two from Silbermann's student Zacharias Hildebrandt) was the Lute Harpsichord (Lautenwerk) according to quotes by his student(s). I recall the follow up Carlos album, The Well Tempered Synthesizer, had an introduction by Gould. Gould attempted (and for his technique failed) an album of Handel Suites on a revival harpsichord, and although not generally known also broadcast on the Canadian CBN television, and also Canadian Radio most of the Art of Fugue on the organ, which was extremely well performed, in my opinion (I studied organ, but in the USA, unless you prostitute yourself to play fast, such as Virgil Fox on the first Digital organ or Cameron Carpenter who performs/travels with the equivalent for most of his appearances, both lend to fast playing (Fox claimed he played the pieces twice as fast...which would be physically for pipe organs to do so) with numerous stop changes, antithetical to the music of J S Bach. Anthony Newman in his younger years also played at quick a fast clip, organ or harpsichord, back when he started his career as the "Classical Music Audience" has a "drug" problem, they are "addicted to speed." Nothing has changed from the 1960's to present. A quick survey of young pianists playing the G major prelude from WTC Pt for the piano level exams for the majority are at their level of prestissimo... That being said, Gould had an ace up his sleeve. Gould played a modified action Steinway (until his last digital recordings, four in fact that he would cut and paste notes from each, on a Yamaha Piano (Steinway shat bricks over that defection), I have no information of whether the Yamaha was modified. You can sometimes hear the action noise on Gould's Steinway in records, if such existed with the Yamaha used in his rethink of the Goldberg variations these could be digital removed, just as a blooper (wrong note) can be even back then pitch corrected or replaced. Glenn Gould is hard to pigeon hole into a category, he studied works of composers (Richard Strauss) he never recorded played in concert, did not play Chopin's extensive catalog...Free Spirit, Loose Canon, Independent, hard to find a label, however the last applied. His family changed (if not legally) from Gold to Gould, they weren't Jewish, but to avoid discrimination in Canada. Did I mentioned through his mother, he was related to Edvard Grieg? "The grandfather of Glenn Gould’s mother was a first cousin of the Norwegian composer Edvard Grieg. Glenn enjoyed the connection more than he did the music. Daniel Poulin tells us: Glenn was proud to claim a famous musician in his ancestry. He once considered recording the very popular piano concerto. He even sight-read the whole piece for his friend John Roberts who remembers the scene. “He sails through the first movement, including the cadenza, without a wrong note or the faintest blemish. The last movement is sight-read at breakneck speed, again flawlessly. It sounds like Horowitz, only better. At the conclusion Gould says , ‘Somehow, I feel this it not for me’ and shuts the score.” He did record some Grieg piano works, namely the Sonata in E Minor, op.7 with “unquestionable authority” and “incontrovertible authenticity” as he wrote on the liner notes to the 1973 CBS recording as “A confidential caution to critics”, obviously a tongue-in-cheek humorous or sarcastic statement." From a review from Slipped Disc.
cont'd In Gould's liner notes to the Beethoven 5th transcription (also insightful on Liszt), Gould mentioned his wearing a heavy coat throughout all seasons, riding on the bus telling people to cover their mouths when they coughed (did he also spray disinfectant's, I no longer have my LP), that he preferred to record at night..less people around, all symptomatic of patients with Chronic Obsessive Compulsive Disorders. To reveal such, or was this his sense of humor. Gould famously gave up concert performances (the audience was distraction or he no longer could tolerate crowds) to primarily record. As to J S Bach, Gould was responsible for the sound track(with a great deal of silences) for the Movie Slaughter House Five. The Soundtrack Album LP is on youtube: Since links get replies banned here Bach : Concerto No. 5 In F Minor, BWV 1056 00:00 A1 I. Allegro 03:43 A2 II. Largo & III. Presto The Goldberg Variations 10:31 A3 No. 18 11:21 A4 No. 25. Brandenburg Concerto No. 4 In G Major, BWV 1049 17:53 A5 Brandenburg Concerto No. 4 In G Major, BWV 1049 Glenn Gould (piano) Rudolf Serkin (piano, A5) Pablo Casals(A5), Vladimir Goldschmann (conductor) The Columbia Symphony Orchestra Marlboro Festival Orchestra(A5) Bach : Concerto No. 3 In D Major, BWV 1054 00:00 B1 I. Allegro 08:02 B2 II. Adagio E Piano Sempre 13:56 B3 III. Allegro 16:45 B4 Chorale: "Komm Heiliger Geist, Herre Gott," BWV 651 Glenn Gould (piano) Rudolf Serkin (piano, A5) Pablo Casals(A5), Vladimir Goldschmann (conductor) The Columbia Symphony Orchestra Marlboro Festival Orchestra(A5) I recall other music from the movie when the Main character Billey (unstuck in time) and the Actress have the birth of their child after his wife's death (spoiler better watch the movie for more music but it's a very disturbing film). This at least is the part Glenn Gould of his work had in the movie.
The great misconception about the Goldberg variations is that they were meant to help Count Kaiserling, who commissioned them (according to Forkel), fall asleep. Hence the many rather dreary, soporific, versions of the Aria littering RUclips. On the contrary, Kaiserling wanted something "of such a gentle and somewhat lively character (so sanften und etwas munten) that he might be a little cheered up by them in his sleepless nights." (According to Forkel, in his 1802 book on Bach - but some musicologists doubt the whole story.)
Sorry, but what does this add to the discussion. Your comment just seems like a distraction meant to take away from the points being made and reinforce the status quo?
@@Ezekiel_PianistI read somewhere that Gould thought, from Forkel's account, that the variations were meant to be "soothing sleeping pills". This could be why he chose such a lethargic tempo for the Aria, in his 1981 recording, and why it is so often played as an adagio. The status quo for this piece is too slow, in my opinion. Sorry you don't see the relevance of my comment to the question of tempo.
@@DismasZelenka we is the mainstream performance practice approach to playing those works, which I assume you would think are played too slow. Performers of today still fail to reach the metronome marks…
I get your point, trivially Glenn is more famous but the title is accurate enough, i.e., he is comparing the famous critics that Gould received with his, because Wim is known for the WBMP (or being very slow for the people that did not pay any attention about it), that's what this channel is for. So that's the comparison. He is not claiming to be as famous, he is claiming to be famous because one of many reasons that Gould is. It is really not that difficult to comprehend.
I’d love to see the critics of Maestro Winters record, research, broadcast or perform half as much as he does. Perhaps they’d be more inclined to listen, less inclined to spout manifestos.
@@ceadachrua that's it, instead of talking people should provide the recordings! I always say.. for every video that Authentic Sound has produced in double beat provide one in single beat, end of the story.
I still remember when I first listened to the Gould 1981 recording.. Without knowing Gould nor the Variations, and looking for some 'background music' for whatever I was doing, I said.. 'let's just check this out'.. I was expecting something 'normal' but the Aria hooked me, I had to sit down and listen to it. What followed was at times very fast! But the feeling of that Aria continued to resonate for the whole 50 minutes.
People can criticise Gould for whatever, but there is an intensity in his playing which is completely captivating and mermerising, and which is utterly unique to him.
My beef with Gould isn't his tempo, but rather not playing repeats called for by the score. If Bach says to repeat it, then you repeat it.
Gould, like Bach, is a force of nature, neither play by the rules.
A RUclips channel , the Music Professor, recently discussed Gould's claim about Mozart. He said that while Gould was technically brilliant, his didn't perform mozart that well. The late harpsicordist Scott Ross commented (in French) that Gould was a nutcase who didn't understand Bach at all. Seymour Bernstein thinks Gould never played anything beautifully. In the case of Bach, Berstein said "I don't hear Bach, all I hear is Gould." Gould's love for experiment in music was such that, sometimes, he went opposoite direction to what the composer intended, or even to the very nature of that music. If he disregarded the conventional tempo of a piece of music, which he sometimes did, it was because he was freely experimenting on the piece. He didn't care about the critics and didn't care whether he was doing things "correctly".
Additionally, Glenn Gould took heat for playing J S Bach in a non-legato style that C P E Bach (technically following performance practice as described) and Mozart's playing style was quoted likewise later when Legato style became the flavor of the era, was accused of choppy playing.
glenn in title? i click
Czerny on Beethoven acknowledged that the Moonlight Sonata was no longer playable as written for the sustain pedal in later years, there's a date but that's not so much of importance, but rather an acknowledgement of Czerny of Beethoven's marks. Thus Czerny's recollection had to tempered and adapted over time to "work" with the pianos current at the time of the each his edition of publication was printed. My opinion, for what it's worth, as Czerny lived through the rapid evolution of the Fortepiano into the mid-century 19th Century Pianoforte, Czerny adapted/changed the MM marks legato phrasing, sustain pedal, and MM for Beethoven to make sense with the instruments as Czerny knew them to make sense with the instrument. By the first decades of the 19th in Vienna there were over 100 different piano manufacturers. Paris, and London were similar and with the change from home salon entertainment to progressively larger concert venues thePianos changed. I've read, but yet to find an example, that the registers found on Viennese Pianos and abandoned after the fall of the Ottoman Empire, were still found in American Square Pianos decades afterwards. The circa 1902 American Thayer Upright Grand Piano, my first instrument had both an Una Corda Pedal, plus the middle pedal slide a soft leather (like chamois) between the hammer and the strings, as well as the ever present and over used Sustain pedal. Most Grand pianos have the Sostenuto Pedal (required for playing the WTC Pt A minor Fugue, if not a third arm) most likely made popular by Piano transcriptions of the early 20th Century for the low organ pedal note held). Curiously enough my current U-1 Yamaha upright has felt instead (and is incredibly nostalgic) for quiet practicing, however I can play loud enough for to mimic the buff stop on a harpsichord.
An understood performance practice from Beethoven's early period, FF and Sforzando both automatically when there was a corresponding change in dynamics (Sfz-p, FF-pp) that the louder dynamic had the sustain pedal depressed and released with quieter dynamic indications, this was used for two reasons, one for larger tonal effect, and to prevent breaking hammers. My piano teacher shared an anecdote, but a young hopeful nascent virtuoso played for Franz Liszt, and the newbie pianists broke a hammer and then apologized to the virtuoso, with Liszt kindly saying something like he wished he could break all the hammers. Broken hammers might also be a reason for the mitigated by Viennese Piano technique (not that much different from C P E Bach, Forkel's description of W F Bach's clavichord technique, or Tuerk as neither harpsichord or clavichord had "double escapement".
Christina Kobb (Norwegian Pianist) quotes Czerny which made a convincing argument for learning some basics of playing before reading music: ‘The notes existed before the scores’ [Die Töne waren eher da, als die Noten] Carl Czerny: Briefe über den Unterricht auf dem Pianoforte vom Anfange bis zur Ausbildung (Vienna: Diabelli, 1839), pp. 4-5. Kobb's doctoral dissertation refers both to the Piano posture taught in Vienna as part of the Viennese forte piano technique in contrast with the modern piano. (Don't share this with my wife, she maintains I have poor posture in general)...
As to Glenn Gould and Wim Winters, piano tempi as with many things involved in music has a great deal of lethargy. What gradually occurred with piano performances becoming faster (contrary to the dogma Ex Cathedra from Piano Academia apologists), subsequently gave way to precisely (and over edited) "instructional editions" which by contrast Czerny editions are almost Urtext by comparison, to Play every indication on the edited score, even written out (and incorrect) ornaments, to the return to Urtext editions (which are summarily also ignored). I am not against personal expression, just lack of research (musicology and performance practice).
It's a shame Chopin died before the completion of his piano tutor. There's Chopin Piano Method channel. Of the Chopin method that came to be better known recently plus the few contemporary sketches (not Romanticized paintings contradict contradict the current Piano practice of the flat finger technique. I would say that the iconography of Chopin, that's not after the fact or romanticized, isn't that much different from Franz Liszt's drawings conteporary, although Chopin's fingers are a tad more curved, Liszt fingers are more relaxed and slanted. The Liszt hand position changes to flat fingers only in the very late in life photographs. I willing to bet that the likes of Seymour Bernstein wouldn't appreciate my observation that Chopin was unlikely to have played with flat, elongated fingers upon the pads of the fingers..
Dank voor het belichten van Glenn Gould. Ik heb deze man nog niet terdege beluisterd wat bij deze zal gebeuren.
Gould's 1981 recording of the Goldberg Variations is so wise and profound -- reminding me of the later works of Shakespeare. Long before I ever heard of whole-beat, I was deeply satisfied with the contemplative tempo of the opening Aria and the incredible beauty of this music.
I have BOTH recordings, and they are BOTH about equal in time overall. He did speed up some parts. I have a sneaking suspicion/suspition/suspision that they had to "make it fit".
This has been my hypo-thesis all along.
I'm not so interested in this discussion. The Aria is too slow, the Brahms is too slow and the Appassionata is too slow, but it is good marketing - look what we are talking about.
But you are interested enough to change it?
This video makes me curious if he's ever done a video on Richter's "very slow" interpretation of Schubert's final Bbmajor sonata?
yes: ruclips.net/video/QW1fRLLdEK8/видео.html
In case anyone still has any doubts: Minute 01:04 of the RUclips video with this title: "I never understood why you can't go faster than light - until now!"
Those who don’t understand it are the ones who want to play faster. They’ll never manage to play at more than a certain speed, which in many cases doesn’t even reach twice the indicated tempo, but they don’t care because they don’t understand anything.
Gould did not play everything slow, he set his own tempos. You can't compare him to anyone and that's what made him special and most important he had one of the greatest technique and clarity at the piano.
People who believe Beethoven's "crazy" tempo markings were a glimpse into the future should try composing their own piano sonata! They could include some outlandish tempos, like quarter note = 1138. Then they, too, could be hailed as visionaries!
You have taught me the right tempos. And I studied at Juilliard !!!!! Thank you
Leonard Bernstein, in a preamble before a session with Glenn Gould, explained succinctly when he said Mr Gould's virtuosity and imagination are such that when he sits at the piano, you can never be quite sure what will happen! Organist tempi? 1950s Cochereau, slow; Schweitzer, slowest, to the modern thoroughbreds. IMO, VARIETY is the spice of music. And I also believe that if Bach was seated at the organ of say Liverpool Anglican cathedral and Beethoven at a modern concert grand piano in a good acoustic, we would hear recognisable but subtly different music from that to which we have become accustomed via electronic recordings.
Do you think Offenbach was a double beater or a single beater?
You are not famous. Smart way to get comments on your video. I fell in the trap.
lol, it's not a trap, it's called a good title/thumbnail :-). And it's even true, I'm notsaying I am famous (period). But known for the same thing, yes.
I wonder if Glenn Gould marched at 120 steps per minute or 60 steps per minute...
120 left/right and 60 left/left :-)
@@AuthenticSound Yes could very well be. But you have to admit there is an interesting point to investigate..
Mille passus > Latin.
This will fix any doubts.
QED
@@thomashughes4859 hmmm so what you are saying is that a 'pace' is 2 steps, so the music should be played at half speed, while they still 'step' at 120 steps per minute, right? ... I'm not entirely convinced guys hahaha.
@@robertjahn8498 Hmmm... Seems I've always heard about the pace of the music, not its step, so why do you play music twice as rapidly, if you even can?
sorry but eighth = 72 for the Goldberg aria absolutely cannot pass as "andante espressivo"
Glenn Gould is a musician. You are a metronome specialist.
Such a harsh commentary... It only speaks about you ego... Sad.
If I had to listen to Gould, I would much prefer his 1955 version of the Goldberg variations. If you want to hear the Aria played almost twice as fast as Gould's 1981 recording, you don't have to speed it up digitally (25:40), just look in YT for his 1955 recording!
You might also look for Wilhelm Kempff's interesting version, played at around quarter = 69, but without many of the ornaments.
Ornaments and grace notes are what I dislike most about classical music. They seem unnecessary at high tempos. I'll listen to Kempff's ...
I listened, very nice. I think ornaments and grace notes work with a much slower tempo. I'd like to hear a comparison..(I think Wim did this soemwhere on this channel...but he has so many videos...!)
@@awfulgoodmovies On a harpsichord they are needed, though. Listen to Helmut Walcha, who chooses a sensible moderate tempo. It is interesting what a wide range of tempi work for this aria. However, Gould 1981, and his model Rosalyn Tureck, drag along the bottom of the range. Do listen to Tureck, though, for a more sensitive version of the ultra-slow Gould.
Brilliant, thank you!❤
Very nice.
Composers face a dilemma: write a slow piece, and performers might speed it up to showcase their virtuosity. Write a fast piece, and they might slow it down because it's too difficult. It's as if performers feel the need to "fix" the composer's supposed "errors."
Glenn Gould could play the A minor invention in Cyborg Speed...and many years ago I heard a performance of the G major prelude of WTC Pt 2 by Gould that was to borrow a term from Physics "Damn Fast."
I always thought Glenn Gould was a composer who should have composed and performed a lot less. He did have an incredible technique but I have never liked his playing.
My guess is that Glenn Gould didn't want harsh criticism of his compositions because he was already receiving plenty for his performances!
Glenn Gould was a bipolarizing figure in music who marched to the sound of a different Metronome. 🤭
Glenn Gould wasn't crazy or eccentric (any more than any other childhood prodigy), however his popularity of the Goldberg variations and his technique gave him some clout that few other pianists would ever had dare attempt to "poke the bear." Rather in his writing said of his tempi, etc. what could he bring to a piece (generally "war horse" compositions) that was a new approach. Yes he played a Contrapuntus from Die Kunst der Fuge in Moscow in 1957 at very fast tempi (and myself a strict believer in performance practice, it worked) but played the other two pieces in correct Tempo Ordinario speed. "Gould play both early and late Scriabin pieces, yet totally ignored Chopin except a single radio performance of the 3rd Chopin Sonata, "just to amuse myself or to irritate my friends". According to many analysts, the early work of Scriabin betrays the influence of Chopin - a fondness for languorous cantilenas and noodling alto-tenor figurations, but if it does then surely Chopin with a difference! The worthy Frédéric scarcely ever kept a large-scale structure going with the impetus Scriabin gives to this sonata..." (liner notes to his recording of Prokofiev's Sonata no. 7 and Scriabin's Sonata no.3)
Gould promoted Renaissance Composers which he performed in concert, Virginalists such as Byrd, Gibbons, and Organist Sweelinck, he recorded the complete Liszt transcriptions for solo piano of the Beethoven Symphonies, made his own transcriptions of music by Wagner, Ravel and Richard Strauss. Gould also played modern (dissonant cr@p) plus some avant garde composers in concert (Schoenberg, Berg, Webern), and premiered a then recently discovered unknown Piano work by Wagner. Gould at that time was noted he played Beethoven Sonatas which at that time was as big a mainstay as Beethoven has become today.
Gould complemented and identified with then called Walter (Wendy) Carlos performance on Moog Synthesizer and Eight/16 track tape deck for Switched On Bach Album (sometimes called SOB), and felt a kinship as both Carlos and Gould played the works of J S Bach on instruments never written for. The 1722 before G. Silbermann started experimenting with Cristofori's fortepiano action and 1744 Well Tempered Clavier lack any indication of dynamics, the Clavier Uebung Pt two and the Goldberg Variations (although Bach self published he never called the Aria with variations Pt four) are four two manual harpsichords, Pt 3 is for organ, and the manuscripts in J S Bach or family members hand list the French and also later the Italian words for harpsichord. J S Bach's favorite instrument in his last years (he commissioned two from Silbermann's student Zacharias Hildebrandt) was the Lute Harpsichord (Lautenwerk) according to quotes by his student(s).
I recall the follow up Carlos album, The Well Tempered Synthesizer, had an introduction by Gould. Gould attempted (and for his technique failed) an album of Handel Suites on a revival harpsichord, and although not generally known also broadcast on the Canadian CBN television, and also Canadian Radio most of the Art of Fugue on the organ, which was extremely well performed, in my opinion (I studied organ, but in the USA, unless you prostitute yourself to play fast, such as Virgil Fox on the first Digital organ or Cameron Carpenter who performs/travels with the equivalent for most of his appearances, both lend to fast playing (Fox claimed he played the pieces twice as fast...which would be physically for pipe organs to do so) with numerous stop changes, antithetical to the music of J S Bach. Anthony Newman in his younger years also played at quick a fast clip, organ or harpsichord, back when he started his career as the "Classical Music Audience" has a "drug" problem, they are "addicted to speed." Nothing has changed from the 1960's to present. A quick survey of young pianists playing the G major prelude from WTC Pt for the piano level exams for the majority are at their level of prestissimo...
That being said, Gould had an ace up his sleeve. Gould played a modified action Steinway (until his last digital recordings, four in fact that he would cut and paste notes from each, on a Yamaha Piano (Steinway shat bricks over that defection), I have no information of whether the Yamaha was modified. You can sometimes hear the action noise on Gould's Steinway in records, if such existed with the Yamaha used in his rethink of the Goldberg variations these could be digital removed, just as a blooper (wrong note) can be even back then pitch corrected or replaced.
Glenn Gould is hard to pigeon hole into a category, he studied works of composers (Richard Strauss) he never recorded played in concert, did not play Chopin's extensive catalog...Free Spirit, Loose Canon, Independent, hard to find a label, however the last applied. His family changed (if not legally) from Gold to Gould, they weren't Jewish, but to avoid discrimination in Canada. Did I mentioned through his mother, he was related to Edvard Grieg? "The grandfather of Glenn Gould’s mother was a first cousin of the Norwegian composer Edvard Grieg. Glenn enjoyed the connection more than he did the music. Daniel Poulin tells us: Glenn was proud to claim a famous musician in his ancestry. He once considered recording the very popular piano concerto. He even sight-read the whole piece for his friend John Roberts who remembers the scene. “He sails through the first movement, including the cadenza, without a wrong note or the faintest blemish. The last movement is sight-read at breakneck speed, again flawlessly. It sounds like Horowitz, only better. At the conclusion Gould says , ‘Somehow, I feel this it not for me’ and shuts the score.” He did record some Grieg piano works, namely the Sonata in E Minor, op.7 with “unquestionable authority” and “incontrovertible authenticity” as he wrote on the liner notes to the 1973 CBS recording as “A confidential caution to critics”, obviously a tongue-in-cheek humorous or sarcastic statement." From a review from Slipped Disc.
cont'd In Gould's liner notes to the Beethoven 5th transcription (also insightful on Liszt), Gould mentioned his wearing a heavy coat throughout all seasons, riding on the bus telling people to cover their mouths when they coughed (did he also spray disinfectant's, I no longer have my LP), that he preferred to record at night..less people around, all symptomatic of patients with Chronic Obsessive Compulsive Disorders. To reveal such, or was this his sense of humor. Gould famously gave up concert performances (the audience was distraction or he no longer could tolerate crowds) to primarily record. As to J S Bach, Gould was responsible for the sound track(with a great deal of silences) for the Movie Slaughter House Five.
The Soundtrack Album LP is on youtube: Since links get replies banned here
Bach : Concerto No. 5 In F Minor, BWV 1056
00:00 A1 I. Allegro
03:43 A2 II. Largo & III. Presto
The Goldberg Variations
10:31 A3 No. 18
11:21 A4 No. 25.
Brandenburg Concerto No. 4 In G Major, BWV 1049
17:53 A5 Brandenburg Concerto No. 4 In G Major, BWV 1049
Glenn Gould (piano)
Rudolf Serkin (piano, A5)
Pablo Casals(A5), Vladimir Goldschmann (conductor)
The Columbia Symphony Orchestra
Marlboro Festival Orchestra(A5)
Bach : Concerto No. 3 In D Major, BWV 1054
00:00 B1 I. Allegro
08:02 B2 II. Adagio E Piano Sempre
13:56 B3 III. Allegro
16:45 B4 Chorale: "Komm Heiliger Geist, Herre Gott," BWV 651
Glenn Gould (piano)
Rudolf Serkin (piano, A5)
Pablo Casals(A5), Vladimir Goldschmann (conductor)
The Columbia Symphony Orchestra
Marlboro Festival Orchestra(A5)
I recall other music from the movie when the Main character Billey (unstuck in time) and the Actress have the birth of their child after his wife's death (spoiler better watch the movie for more music but it's a very disturbing film). This at least is the part Glenn Gould of his work had in the movie.
The great misconception about the Goldberg variations is that they were meant to help Count Kaiserling, who commissioned them (according to Forkel), fall asleep. Hence the many rather dreary, soporific, versions of the Aria littering RUclips. On the contrary, Kaiserling wanted something "of such a gentle and somewhat lively character (so sanften und etwas munten) that he might be a little cheered up by them in his sleepless nights." (According to Forkel, in his 1802 book on Bach - but some musicologists doubt the whole story.)
Sorry, but what does this add to the discussion. Your comment just seems like a distraction meant to take away from the points being made and reinforce the status quo?
@@Ezekiel_PianistI read somewhere that Gould thought, from Forkel's account, that the variations were meant to be "soothing sleeping pills". This could be why he chose such a lethargic tempo for the Aria, in his 1981 recording, and why it is so often played as an adagio. The status quo for this piece is too slow, in my opinion. Sorry you don't see the relevance of my comment to the question of tempo.
@@DismasZelenka I assume you think we also play the Hammerklavier and the 4th movement of the 8th symphony too slow as well then.
@@Ezekiel_PianistWho is we? Anyway, I thought this video was about Glenn Gould's choice of tempi for the Goldberg Variations. Who is distracting here?
@@DismasZelenka we is the mainstream performance practice approach to playing those works, which I assume you would think are played too slow. Performers of today still fail to reach the metronome marks…
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Err not a great title, Gould is famous, you're not sorry no disrespect.. and he is famous for his piano playing not his opinions on piano playing.. :)
Is/ was famous
I get your point, trivially Glenn is more famous but the title is accurate enough, i.e., he is comparing the famous critics that Gould received with his, because Wim is known for the WBMP (or being very slow for the people that did not pay any attention about it), that's what this channel is for. So that's the comparison. He is not claiming to be as famous, he is claiming to be famous because one of many reasons that Gould is. It is really not that difficult to comprehend.
I’d love to see the critics of Maestro Winters record, research, broadcast or perform half as much as he does.
Perhaps they’d be more inclined to listen, less inclined to spout manifestos.
Wim, an awful lot of people know you around the globe. How does it feel to be so infamous? 😂
@@ceadachrua that's it, instead of talking people should provide the recordings! I always say.. for every video that Authentic Sound has produced in double beat provide one in single beat, end of the story.
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