Personally, the issue I have with subscriptions is not necessarily that I think companies are trying to milk customers (though that's sometimes true) but it creates a situation that even if you don't find the subscription valuable anymore it's hard to cancel because it takes away access to past projects, at least partially. It's another issue I just don't want to deal with so I don't do subscriptions.
Subscriptions are really good when they are rent to own, even if they charge like a 10% interest fee or something its still much better for the consumer then just an indefenet subscription.
It's sort of a short-term microcosm of a more general long-term problem, which is when companies go out of business and/or just decide to stop updating a product (see Sonic Solutions, for example). I'm increasingly worried about so much modern software "calling home" even though it's not really fundamental to what the software does.
When Izotope comes out with a new version of a product, I currently have the option of deciding whether the new features are worth the cost of upgrading. Under a subscription-only model, that choice disappears. In addition, a subscription model burdens the customer with tracking renewal dates on top of all the subscriptions every other segment of the economy foists upon customers.
As long as the Sub model is an option, because if its the only option, out of principle (Mine.. I want to Own what I use) , its goodbye. So keep both options and I'm ok with that. I imagine as many will agree as disagree.. but like it or not, that's my stance.
I am 100% with you on this one, Matt. If it's an option, fine. If it's the only way to get it - I'm out. Having said that, I own a tonne of iZotope products. I have spent a whole lot of money with them.
If subs were feature equivalent and optional it wouldn't be a problem, but they are already bringing out 'subscription only' features. This is disgusting behaviour, it just adds another tier above advanced. It's just a cash grab
i think there are pros/cons to the subscription model. I think that the most ideal scenario is selling the product like normal but also having a subscription model available. I absolutely loathe companies like Adobe which has switched to just subscriptions.
Subscription makes sense if you're in the business but not if you're a hobbyist like the vast majority. Personally I'll buy something I want and pay for updates/upgrades on my schedule. I have no interest in powering someone else's hamster wheel.
Don't get me wrong, I really like Izotope. But it would be better to hear an interview that challenges and questions the guest a little more. I can get sales promotions from the company website. That said, I really enjoyed and appreciated the conversation about diversity - it's great to have that highlighted.
If you want to bring more people to the industry mr. iZotope, you can start by lowering those insane prices. You don't want more customers though, you want more money, no matter how fancy you try to market your intentions. Which is expectable in a capitalist society. But there are also companies who don't want to f*** over their customer base and people spread the word and value those companies with actual humane approach. But who am I to say something, I'm just a customer who avoids companies with subscription models. :P
What he's saying about piracy protection is so refreshing and spot on. What a great representative for the company. When I began getting into music as a teenager with no job and coming from an extremely low income family on welfare I torrented Cubase and sample libraries. Using these gave me a hunger for acquiring more and better sample libraries. For over a decade I've bought everything I use, including each Ozone release which I use in every project. I'm currently trying Sonible Smart EQ 3 on a 30 day trial and through using it will be buying it next payday. Worrying about people who use software without buying is just a pointless waste of time, as Bailey says. Diversity of thought and opinions are far better things than separating us by skin colour. Encouraging people of any background to apply is a good thing. Hiring people not based on merit but skin colour is a disgustingly racist thing, the bigotry of low expectations.
I use subscription based model. In this day and age, we are able to get access to an entire plugin bundle and really get to grips with all the plugins, not just look at one in the pack I wish you had that to tie in with the mix, it's simply there, amazing. The greatest point is this: some companies who shall remain nameless, still charge you a huge amount to upgrade, regardless if you purchased the plugin dirt cheep initially. With subscription models, (over time you might pay more), but ultimately all the servicing and updates are included and installation is seamless. For me that is a game changer and win every time. Also with cracked plugins, you never know what dodgy code or backdoor hacking access is being downloaded on to your computer, in the long term, it just isn't worth compromising the stability of your setup.
Subscription only = I'm out. It's interesting to hear (approx. 13:00 or so) how he justifies to himself that it seems good to preclude people from actually owning the software and instead being dependent on monthly fees to enjoy using it, and by "interesting" I mean sad.
Lame subscription based software, not even backwards compatible with people running full legit previous version. This is not a product for audio professionals.
I do audio restoration and a bit of mastering. I don't record or mix, but that's the group of users iZotope seems to be going for now. My main apps are RX and Ozone. I have three ideas: 1) Continue to offer the paid software as always 2) Offer the new model 3) Offer a subscription as a rent-to-own option I constantly use iZotope products, but I don't like paying for something I can go for two or three months without using. And, what if I don't pay for a subscription for two or three months? Will they cancel me when I finally need the products? The problem I have with Adobe is that I use Audition, the older versions I could outright buy. In fact, I go all the way back to when they were owned by Syntrillium. But, I quit Adobe when they went to the total subscription model. So, I continue to use the older versions. With RX and Ozone, I could always upgrade when I got the chance. But now I have to rent it for a perpetual payment? I hate to say it, but subscriptions are why many people pirate software.
Thanks for your great products, folks. I'd love to see iZotope and Sonnox get together to address the known plugin conflict between RX suite and Sonnox Oxford plugins... in some way dealt with, as in fixed. It's no fun to constantly have to remove one or the other from the plugins folder, depending on one's needs. Other than that, keep up the amazing work! And Dave, please do a stand up comedy special. I would pay to see that. Cheers mates!
It's amusing to hear software people try to validate how great subscription is. They all ignore what's happened to Adobe with PS, people *will* find an alternative they can own. They're just asking for bad publicity and alternatives to step up.
Adobe it's kinda hard to avoid because they sort of like have a monopoly. If you want to get into the industry e.g. animation and working with other people you just have to compared with iZotope that can be avoided. Adobe dream on.
Hi CTO, respectful request to you. iZotope makes excellent products, Agreed. But please do with moderate price range subscriptions and make upgrades optional or just a slight price increase for ownership. That way its guaranteed you'll get more customer base and happy family out there. Bcoz, not everybody in the music industry is making $$$, many of them are out there struggling, experimenting/exploring and plainly trying to make it,Guys. Please have heart and help us for a start. Thanks.
Dave, Herb... Love you guys. But this guy's thoughts on a subscription model are awful. @12min... this is just corporate brainwashing. He might believe it. But that just means he's been drinking the corporate Kool-Aid long enough to try to get others to drink it. Not happening.
Subscriptions seems OK if they are an *option,* where there is an option to buy a product outright and have it not time out. I really dislike it when companies make subcriptions the *only* way to get their products. I suppose it make sense for things like cloud services, but companies seem to be increasingly making things "cloud only" when they don't really need to be (like Autodesk Fusion 360).
@@Lantertronics This is EXACTLY what Izotope are doing RIGHT NOW. They just announced features for the "Pro" versions of their products and they are subscription-only. Maybe some day they will go back and offer those same features for products under a traditional license, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Loyalty is for suckers. It only goes one direction with this company.
@@ParmerleeTube Weird coincidence, just before I saw your response, I was going through the Isotope website, and... yeah, I find their current slate of offerings extremely confusing. I was trying to figure out how one could buy the "pro" versions outright and assuming I was just overlooking something. So the info you just provided let me know I'm not an idiot -- well, about this thing at least! And I thought Waves bundles were confusing... I do hope Izotope gets their act together on this, because they're doing some EXTREMELY interesting work. (I have one of the big Waves bundles since I started with them back when they were the only game in town in the Sound Designer II days, but I feel like Waves has fallen behind technically and coasting on past success and celebrity endorsements a bit. I mean, I still like a lot of their stuff, but...)
I love the Izotope bundle I would have to spend about 2 large to achieve that through analogue. You don't know I need 10 plugs through my clean power supply takes up a whole room mixing desk solid state recorder rack mounted gear , I just started on these plugins I cant believe how great they are and what you can achieve sonically
One thing I have been working on is being less easily triggered. Staying engaged on something’s that I used to turn off has been a good thing in most situations for me.
I love Izotope products. I have probably paid upwards of $2000 over the years for their products. I will NEVER NEVER NEVER enter a subscription with them or any other music software company. I will pay good money for a solid product that has the features I need. I will not pay by the month ever. The only subscriptions I will pay are my electric bill, cell phone usage, water bill, XM radio (but only on the special offers that are a fair price for what you get), and cable. And I will probably cut the cable in the next 6 months. Subscriptions are the enemy of anybody trying to have some savings they can rely on as they get older. Izotope's whole approach to packaging and bundling has been a hot mess the last 3-4 years and if they don't fix it, I am probably done with them. It is a shame because their technology is great, but their marketing practices suck.
If iZotope continue further into the subscription model, having features that are subscription only, I will dump them. Certainly not buying anything new from now on.
That is a key point. Other companies are giving me that "Oh you can still have a 'forever' license for each release if that is what you want." But then you find that the new features are only added to the subscription versions of the product. If Izotope tries that game, I can live without them.
Once you own something even if you go broke you can still survive and work if you don't have resources to subscribe then what? it is akin to owning your house outright as in no mortgage to renting .
If every company wants a subscriptions fee its going to get unmanageable for your average musician. If you just want to rent to pros good luck. I'm sure young software developers will come along and fill the gap in the market.
So now I have two reasons to be out of Izotope. Subscriptions, and 35:00 the fact that they apparently now feel that a certain sex and skin color is a reason to disfavor the hire of a qualified person. You can't fight racism with racism, or sexism with sexism.
If you want to push music making I had a donat the raspberry pi with bitwig studio on linux I was trying to exploit the dsp onboard the arm chip plus if it was power over ethernet
Inclusiveness seems to be the favourite marketing tactics for companies these days. I'm all up for that as long as it's not used as a sales tactic. Plus if you think about it the sub model goes against inclusiveness. Here's how they would actually be inclusive: have a sub model, a regular bought model and a rent to own model, with updates to all of them so none is left behind and plugins always work for everyone. Don't hide features from people who payed for the advanced versions so they go for the sub model. This way you would make money and all costumers would be treated equally. This seemed very disingenuous and a planned press work. He wasn' t challenged with questions, the costumers side was not taken at all. It's just him justifying you being chained to a sub model. In the long run the sub model will have you pay way more than you would have if you payed for the plugins. Vote with your wallet people. It's the only way to stop these predatory tactics, otherwise I bet you iZotope is going Adobes route.
Personally, the issue I have with subscriptions is not necessarily that I think companies are trying to milk customers (though that's sometimes true) but it creates a situation that even if you don't find the subscription valuable anymore it's hard to cancel because it takes away access to past projects, at least partially. It's another issue I just don't want to deal with so I don't do subscriptions.
Very true, but that's also the genius trap for the selling company.
Subscriptions are really good when they are rent to own, even if they charge like a 10% interest fee or something its still much better for the consumer then just an indefenet subscription.
It's sort of a short-term microcosm of a more general long-term problem, which is when companies go out of business and/or just decide to stop updating a product (see Sonic Solutions, for example). I'm increasingly worried about so much modern software "calling home" even though it's not really fundamental to what the software does.
When Izotope comes out with a new version of a product, I currently have the option of deciding whether the new features are worth the cost of upgrading. Under a subscription-only model, that choice disappears. In addition, a subscription model burdens the customer with tracking renewal dates on top of all the subscriptions every other segment of the economy foists upon customers.
I absolutely agree
As long as the Sub model is an option, because if its the only option, out of principle (Mine.. I want to Own what I use) , its goodbye.
So keep both options and I'm ok with that.
I imagine as many will agree as disagree.. but like it or not, that's my stance.
I am 100% with you on this one, Matt. If it's an option, fine. If it's the only way to get it - I'm out. Having said that, I own a tonne of iZotope products. I have spent a whole lot of money with them.
As a person who already owns most of their product line, Id leave in a heartbeat if they started doing subs only.
Agree, Only sub is a really bad idea.
If subs were feature equivalent and optional it wouldn't be a problem, but they are already bringing out 'subscription only' features. This is disgusting behaviour, it just adds another tier above advanced. It's just a cash grab
@@Simbosan Oh dear... So what I already "Own" is gimped? (honest question)
i think there are pros/cons to the subscription model. I think that the most ideal scenario is selling the product like normal but also having a subscription model available. I absolutely loathe companies like Adobe which has switched to just subscriptions.
Subscription makes sense if you're in the business but not if you're a hobbyist like the vast majority. Personally I'll buy something I want and pay for updates/upgrades on my schedule. I have no interest in powering someone else's hamster wheel.
Don't get me wrong, I really like Izotope. But it would be better to hear an interview that challenges and questions the guest a little more. I can get sales promotions from the company website. That said, I really enjoyed and appreciated the conversation about diversity - it's great to have that highlighted.
If you want to bring more people to the industry mr. iZotope, you can start by lowering those insane prices. You don't want more customers though, you want more money, no matter how fancy you try to market your intentions. Which is expectable in a capitalist society. But there are also companies who don't want to f*** over their customer base and people spread the word and value those companies with actual humane approach. But who am I to say something, I'm just a customer who avoids companies with subscription models. :P
What he's saying about piracy protection is so refreshing and spot on. What a great representative for the company.
When I began getting into music as a teenager with no job and coming from an extremely low income family on welfare I torrented Cubase and sample libraries. Using these gave me a hunger for acquiring more and better sample libraries. For over a decade I've bought everything I use, including each Ozone release which I use in every project.
I'm currently trying Sonible Smart EQ 3 on a 30 day trial and through using it will be buying it next payday. Worrying about people who use software without buying is just a pointless waste of time, as Bailey says.
Diversity of thought and opinions are far better things than separating us by skin colour. Encouraging people of any background to apply is a good thing. Hiring people not based on merit but skin colour is a disgustingly racist thing, the bigotry of low expectations.
I use subscription based model. In this day and age, we are able to get access to an entire plugin bundle and really get to grips with all the plugins, not just look at one in the pack I wish you had that to tie in with the mix, it's simply there, amazing. The greatest point is this: some companies who shall remain nameless, still charge you a huge amount to upgrade, regardless if you purchased the plugin dirt cheep initially. With subscription models, (over time you might pay more), but ultimately all the servicing and updates are included and installation is seamless. For me that is a game changer and win every time. Also with cracked plugins, you never know what dodgy code or backdoor hacking access is being downloaded on to your computer, in the long term, it just isn't worth compromising the stability of your setup.
I like to own and have the option to upgrade if/when id like to. Keep subscriptions optional!
This is awesome
Subscription only = I'm out. It's interesting to hear (approx. 13:00 or so) how he justifies to himself that it seems good to preclude people from actually owning the software and instead being dependent on monthly fees to enjoy using it, and by "interesting" I mean sad.
Fun to see an album I worked on behind you Jon!
I'm convinced I'm getting the native instruments standalone beat box now that I washed the show
Lame subscription based software, not even backwards compatible with people running full legit previous version. This is not a product for audio professionals.
I do audio restoration and a bit of mastering. I don't record or mix, but that's the group of users iZotope seems to be going for now. My main apps are RX and Ozone. I have three ideas:
1) Continue to offer the paid software as always
2) Offer the new model
3) Offer a subscription as a rent-to-own option
I constantly use iZotope products, but I don't like paying for something I can go for two or three months without using. And, what if I don't pay for a subscription for two or three months? Will they cancel me when I finally need the products?
The problem I have with Adobe is that I use Audition, the older versions I could outright buy. In fact, I go all the way back to when they were owned by Syntrillium. But, I quit Adobe when they went to the total subscription model. So, I continue to use the older versions. With RX and Ozone, I could always upgrade when I got the chance. But now I have to rent it for a perpetual payment? I hate to say it, but subscriptions are why many people pirate software.
Thanks for your great products, folks. I'd love to see iZotope and Sonnox get together to address the known plugin conflict between RX suite and Sonnox Oxford plugins... in some way dealt with, as in fixed. It's no fun to constantly have to remove one or the other from the plugins folder, depending on one's needs. Other than that, keep up the amazing work! And Dave, please do a stand up comedy special. I would pay to see that. Cheers mates!
It's amusing to hear software people try to validate how great subscription is. They all ignore what's happened to Adobe with PS, people *will* find an alternative they can own. They're just asking for bad publicity and alternatives to step up.
Subscription as an *option*: Great! Subscription as the *only* way? No way...
Adobe it's kinda hard to avoid because they sort of like have a monopoly. If you want to get into the industry e.g. animation and working with other people you just have to compared with iZotope that can be avoided. Adobe dream on.
Hi CTO, respectful request to you. iZotope makes excellent products, Agreed. But please do with moderate price range subscriptions and make upgrades optional or just a slight price increase for ownership. That way its guaranteed you'll get more customer base and happy family out there. Bcoz, not everybody in the music industry is making $$$, many of them are out there struggling, experimenting/exploring and plainly trying to make it,Guys. Please have heart and help us for a start. Thanks.
Fantastic conversation. Thank you.
Wow!🔥🔥🔥
Dave, Herb... Love you guys. But this guy's thoughts on a subscription model are awful. @12min... this is just corporate brainwashing. He might believe it. But that just means he's been drinking the corporate Kool-Aid long enough to try to get others to drink it. Not happening.
Subscriptions seems OK if they are an *option,* where there is an option to buy a product outright and have it not time out. I really dislike it when companies make subcriptions the *only* way to get their products. I suppose it make sense for things like cloud services, but companies seem to be increasingly making things "cloud only" when they don't really need to be (like Autodesk Fusion 360).
@@Lantertronics This is EXACTLY what Izotope are doing RIGHT NOW. They just announced features for the "Pro" versions of their products and they are subscription-only. Maybe some day they will go back and offer those same features for products under a traditional license, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Loyalty is for suckers. It only goes one direction with this company.
@@ParmerleeTube Weird coincidence, just before I saw your response, I was going through the Isotope website, and... yeah, I find their current slate of offerings extremely confusing. I was trying to figure out how one could buy the "pro" versions outright and assuming I was just overlooking something. So the info you just provided let me know I'm not an idiot -- well, about this thing at least!
And I thought Waves bundles were confusing...
I do hope Izotope gets their act together on this, because they're doing some EXTREMELY interesting work. (I have one of the big Waves bundles since I started with them back when they were the only game in town in the Sound Designer II days, but I feel like Waves has fallen behind technically and coasting on past success and celebrity endorsements a bit. I mean, I still like a lot of their stuff, but...)
I love the Izotope bundle I would have to spend about 2 large to achieve that through analogue. You don't know I need 10 plugs through my clean power supply takes up a whole room mixing desk solid state recorder rack mounted gear , I just started on these plugins I cant believe how great they are and what you can achieve sonically
Technology 🙏🏾
Cool smart guy.
Once he said 'at the end of the day' I kinda tuned out.
Poor you
It's kinda/sorta a warning label isn't it.
One thing I have been working on is being less easily triggered. Staying engaged on something’s that I used to turn off has been a good thing in most situations for me.
izotope is awesome. One of the first companies to make iOS apps over a decade ago. Any way we can convince them to bring RX over to iOS as AUV apps?
love izotope though, one of my top 3 favorite music/audio companies
I cant believe how great that RX is
Izotope ozone is so good
Yezzir!!
Only the undo function is buggin lol..
@@futurebeats898 lol
9:40 he literally JUST explained the thought behind moving to the subscription model lol
I love Izotope products. I have probably paid upwards of $2000 over the years for their products. I will NEVER NEVER NEVER enter a subscription with them or any other music software company. I will pay good money for a solid product that has the features I need. I will not pay by the month ever. The only subscriptions I will pay are my electric bill, cell phone usage, water bill, XM radio (but only on the special offers that are a fair price for what you get), and cable. And I will probably cut the cable in the next 6 months. Subscriptions are the enemy of anybody trying to have some savings they can rely on as they get older. Izotope's whole approach to packaging and bundling has been a hot mess the last 3-4 years and if they don't fix it, I am probably done with them. It is a shame because their technology is great, but their marketing practices suck.
Yes!!! Represent Izotope!!! Woop woop!!
would Izotope consider making a drum app along the lines of superior drummer or Slate drums?
I think it would be interesting if they applied some of their "deep learning" technology to drum grooves.
You should help your subscribers escape the DAW, RX is the way forward
Did he said how his '' analogue '' eq in ozone is coded? Its sounds so different than his digital algorithm
When is the new arturia plugin dropping?
It's only right I listen to show with my new audio technica cans
If iZotope continue further into the subscription model, having features that are subscription only, I will dump them. Certainly not buying anything new from now on.
Its annoying for sure lol
That is a key point. Other companies are giving me that "Oh you can still have a 'forever' license for each release if that is what you want." But then you find that the new features are only added to the subscription versions of the product. If Izotope tries that game, I can live without them.
Once you own something even if you go broke you can still survive and work if you don't have resources to subscribe then what? it is akin to owning your house outright as in no mortgage to renting .
If every company wants a subscriptions fee its going to get unmanageable for your average musician. If you just want to rent to pros good luck. I'm sure young software developers will come along and fill the gap in the market.
So now I have two reasons to be out of Izotope. Subscriptions, and 35:00 the fact that they apparently now feel that a certain sex and skin color is a reason to disfavor the hire of a qualified person. You can't fight racism with racism, or sexism with sexism.
If you want to push music making I had a donat the raspberry pi with bitwig studio on linux I was trying to exploit the dsp onboard the arm chip plus if it was power over ethernet
LOL
Own the entire suite, some of our favorite plugins!
In the future governed by daos we wont have this piracy debate lol
Inclusiveness seems to be the favourite marketing tactics for companies these days. I'm all up for that as long as it's not used as a sales tactic. Plus if you think about it the sub model goes against inclusiveness. Here's how they would actually be inclusive: have a sub model, a regular bought model and a rent to own model, with updates to all of them so none is left behind and plugins always work for everyone. Don't hide features from people who payed for the advanced versions so they go for the sub model. This way you would make money and all costumers would be treated equally.
This seemed very disingenuous and a planned press work. He wasn' t challenged with questions, the costumers side was not taken at all. It's just him justifying you being chained to a sub model. In the long run the sub model will have you pay way more than you would have if you payed for the plugins.
Vote with your wallet people. It's the only way to stop these predatory tactics, otherwise I bet you iZotope is going Adobes route.