These sorta weird comps are gonna be really interesting because with the nerf to jett and sova and changes to neon and fade being introduced, I wonder if Teams like Ghost might be ahead of the curve or could find a cool niche that gives them an advantage in the meta. Huge potential for new comps with Fade for insane combos with like raze and breach like TSM's ascent comp could benefit with Fade. Hope teams show us some fun stuff they cooked up
Naw i am pretty sure this won't work against good teams i mean on defence yeah maybe but definitely not on attack coz no good is gonna give them free space like knights did and even if they did give them for 1-2 rounds the adaptation gonna come in and well gg
I feel like this won’t work against any good defending teams because they have no way to create space when breaking into a site. If they run into a team like optic, paper rex and other aggressive teams not having a duelist will be very painful
17:37 I agree with you here kinda, but at the same time ghost has run this comp vs knights before with even more success (13-5), so they should have known at least in the back of their head that they could pick the comp even though they weren't playing it vs other teams. As aproto said in the interview it was a counterpick for knight's comp
Especially because knights don’t have a kayo, I think if knights had kayo, the whole strat would not have worked, no Sage wall, or brim smokes, and retakes would have been much easier
The way you present content and strategies used in pro play in such a concise and easy to understand manner is extremely underappreciated, and I wish many more would come and watch you for that, along with the explanations of what works, why they work, and areas that you see could be improved, that at this rate I wouldn't be surprised if you're used as a baseline for analysing pro team plays! Keep up the great work! 👍
With the new Valorant franchising coming in 2023, They'll need a bunch of new English casters for 3 regions running simultaneously. I hope you get chosen to be part of this massive expansion in val or even a analyst for a pro team. You're one of the only channels that give insightful analysis on the strategies of the teams and not just retelling to me what's happening in game with valorant jargon.
15:02 I remember being last man standing n I got hit by every fade util possible (minus ult) breach flashed, breach aftershock, breach stun, kayo flashed, kayo molly and chamber slowed :) (it was last round of the first half so they used everything)
0:30 I didn't see the full game I I only judging from those 4 rounds but I think why we saw a brim instead of an omen on the side of ghost is because they wanted everything to happen so quick and they wanted to smoke catwalk then smoke where they put the sage wall then smoke ct and rush all in a sudden and they didn't have time to wait for a third omen smoke to recharge the 3 smokes must be there in time so quickly
I'm super interested in where your expertise comes from... I love these videos - they've really opened my eyes on how to appreciate pro play - and I'm curious where you got the knowledge/experience for all of this?
I trained as a football (soccer) coach and did a masters degree in it. Football and Valorant are both invasion games so they share a lot of similarities and then it’s just about watching a lot of games analytically to see what works and what doesn’t
@@ThinkingMansValorant Woah that's actually super interesting holy shit. Didn't think football and Valorant had much in common, but that actually makes so much sense.
I need to create a round based RTS game where you have 5 units you can choose and coordinate them against another player in an FPS-like map. Like you almost do when explaining stuff over the radar.
Just used this comp (-brim +Astra) in a 5-stack (only silver so don't write home abt it) cause this seemed super interesting. Managed to pull a decent 5-7 on Atk by mainly by violating people with utility for picks, but didn't manage to get onto A through main more than 1 round and constantly got stuck at the choke. Def was expectedly drastically easier, and when we weren't committing low elo suicide the rounds kinda gave themselves to us. All in all this is a concept that even us plebs could take into our matches, and I imagine you can crush some amateur mental with relative ease if you get to start on Def side.
I mean yeah but no but yeah but no but yeah.All of his abillities are kind of better verison of phoniexs abillities except for the signature which is still way better
not a space creating duelist which is what he means - there's a massive difference between kayo's util and jett/raze satchels/dashes/boombots/cloud bursts.
But still Jett and chamber are one of the most efficient duelists in pro games.not getting traded after an agressive kill only happens often with Jett and chamber.
@@Camus2301 While this is true, it's not exactly the reason to run a duelist. On the attacking side, Jetts usually dash into site during an execute. They only do that aggressive pick then peace out when they're on defense which is a side that doesn't necessarily "require" a duelist.
I'm not so sure I agree on this one. I feel like duelist is really only necessary to get through the A and B main chokes. Running it through Mid without one is easily doable as that's normally where the non duelists of the team goes on a split with the duelist at main. I do agree that better teams would adapt to this mid take better, but it could also be argued, I think, that if a better team also played this no duelist comp they could adapt to that adaptation as well. A team like Optic is basically just using Chamber as their duelist already, I would not be surprised if they just don't play one anymore on the Jett maps and might only see them playing duelist on maps where Victor can Neon.
I have always wondered abot the potential of a duelist-less comp. I think if a team dedicates ALOT to their utility it is more then possible, even preferable on some maps (fracture comes to my mind). Not that my elo is pro play, but i have played a few games where we go 2 sentinels, 1 controllers and 2 initiators on fracture and ascent. Those went suprisingly well, and we often got flamed by the enemy like "2 sentinel tryhards OMEGALUL". I fell a comp like that is insanely strong defence, and the potential to play around utility is massive. The one weakness i see is rounds without ults, so i think ult management would be crucial.
The amount of pro games in which they leave the mid lane open for the attacking side is baffling. In rank games you will rarely see a mid lane open and sometimes all 10 players are just playing for mid control. You will most likely see the main entrances for the site unguarded rather than a mid lane without someone holding it.
Personally, I think it's repeatable but only when there is some variation to the setup like going through the smoke in mid and walling it off to fake the rotation of the enemy. However, there's a catch, they need to guarantee that they can get mid control.
To be honest I think those kj setups were just stupid most of the time against such a team comp. If you like place an aggressive bot in the entrance oder backsite on top of the barrel it would have been much better in my opinion
Nismo is probably top 4 Kayo rn Victor Xeppa Tex Nismo In no particular order but these are demons on Kayo, even on a global level, acend zeek's kayo has been really really impactful to their matches but alas being kayo never shows up on scoreboard as you can win your team an unwinable round w a well placed knife or well timed ult or well coordinated flash, and half of the time knife impact never shows up as people don't execute till they are not suppressed, and utils like ults, sova drone, skye dogs and post plant lineups that can instantly get taken down by a well placed/timed suppressed Kayo mains have my maxxxx respect as they need peak gamesense, peak aim and mechanics of a duelist because kayo is a better entry than skye, his flashes are lowkey broken because of right click
@@joshuachang5602 I'm talking about previous season, challenger 1 and before, Tex used chamber on frac only and used kayo on haven, ascent and split as far as i remember
Duelists are the only class imo that aren't necessary. Controllers and sentinels are absolutely necessary and initiators are important. So many Duelists are too selfish in their abilities.
I think this comp is very interesting when it comes to what they can provide for their team. I tried to comment this already but accidently deleted all of it so I am going to keep this simple with each agent Sage : - Has a wall that can block off choke points, provide info (if not broken), and provide cover for teammates as they push into site - Has a heal that can heal teammates who need it after taking a heavy hitting fight - Has slow orbs that can slow down enemy pushes - Ult that can resurrect a teammate that can potentially win you the game KAY/O : - Knife that provides info on where an enemy typically is and suppresses enemies of their abilities to defend or attack (this can also cancel some ultimates) - Flashes for teammates, along with a flash for himself. Also I believe that this is the stongest flash in the game - Molly that can be used for offense, defense, and post-plant -Ult that is strong for entry by suppressing enemies, faster fire-rate, and being able to be picked up if killed during ult Brimstone : - Smokes that are possibly the best in the game being at 15 seconds - Stim Beacon for strong executions to push onto a site, and rotations - Molly that can be used for offense, defense, and post-plant -Ult that is strong for offense, defense, and post plant / plant denial Sova : - Recon dart that is strong for clear info. Also good on defense if you can tag one of them through a smoke, easy kill - Drone that is good for clearing corners for your team and providing wall hacks if tagged - Shock darts that are good for chip damage and clearing sentinel traps - Ult that is strong on offense (clearing corners with each shot), defense (doing major damage as they are pushing into a site), and post-plant / plant denial KJ : - Turret for information, and small chip damage - Molly that can be used for offense, defense, and post-plant - Alarmbot that can provide info and create easy kills - Ult for offense (good example being under B site, Fracture) and Defense (like you said in the first round that you showed). The ult is great for taking space if it is not destroyed This comp feels like a good balance between offense and defense. The only downside is that they don't have any agents that can perform really well with the OP or have any get out of jail free cards. I believe if they play it right with these characters, this can be a possible OP comp. Let me know what you think of this!
These sorta weird comps are gonna be really interesting because with the nerf to jett and sova and changes to neon and fade being introduced, I wonder if Teams like Ghost might be ahead of the curve or could find a cool niche that gives them an advantage in the meta. Huge potential for new comps with Fade for insane combos with like raze and breach like TSM's ascent comp could benefit with Fade. Hope teams show us some fun stuff they cooked up
Naw i am pretty sure this won't work against good teams i mean on defence yeah maybe but definitely not on attack coz no good is gonna give them free space like knights did and even if they did give them for 1-2 rounds the adaptation gonna come in and well gg
I feel like this won’t work against any good defending teams because they have no way to create space when breaking into a site. If they run into a team like optic, paper rex and other aggressive teams not having a duelist will be very painful
it would work againt prx because you have to play defense on both halves kekw
@@TheCubicalGamer thats why prx perma ban is ascent, because it is much harder to do aggro set up in defence than other maps
Wow thats exacty what he said in the video. Good job
@@jandersegemark1568 this comment is the generic example of the people who see title thumbnail and beeline to comments
Damn it’s almost like that’s exactly what he brought up in the video
i feel the brim steam really aids these no duelist executes.everyone can just enter with increased speed and somewhat create space like a duelist.
17:37 I agree with you here kinda, but at the same time ghost has run this comp vs knights before with even more success (13-5), so they should have known at least in the back of their head that they could pick the comp even though they weren't playing it vs other teams. As aproto said in the interview it was a counterpick for knight's comp
the fact that this was counterpick to knights specifically is promising i wanna keep an eye on ghost in the future now
Especially because knights don’t have a kayo, I think if knights had kayo, the whole strat would not have worked, no Sage wall, or brim smokes, and retakes would have been much easier
@@thenewninja4726 same
The way you present content and strategies used in pro play in such a concise and easy to understand manner is extremely underappreciated, and I wish many more would come and watch you for that, along with the explanations of what works, why they work, and areas that you see could be improved, that at this rate I wouldn't be surprised if you're used as a baseline for analysing pro team plays! Keep up the great work! 👍
With the new Valorant franchising coming in 2023, They'll need a bunch of new English casters for 3 regions running simultaneously. I hope you get chosen to be part of this massive expansion in val or even a analyst for a pro team. You're one of the only channels that give insightful analysis on the strategies of the teams and not just retelling to me what's happening in game with valorant jargon.
15:02 I remember being last man standing n I got hit by every fade util possible (minus ult) breach flashed, breach aftershock, breach stun, kayo flashed, kayo molly and chamber slowed :) (it was last round of the first half so they used everything)
Thats must have been a nightmare
Super underrated channel! You're content is amazing!
0:30 I didn't see the full game I I only judging from those 4 rounds but I think why we saw a brim instead of an omen on the side of ghost is because they wanted everything to happen so quick and they wanted to smoke catwalk then smoke where they put the sage wall then smoke ct and rush all in a sudden and they didn't have time to wait for a third omen smoke to recharge the 3 smokes must be there in time so quickly
I'm super interested in where your expertise comes from... I love these videos - they've really opened my eyes on how to appreciate pro play - and I'm curious where you got the knowledge/experience for all of this?
I trained as a football (soccer) coach and did a masters degree in it. Football and Valorant are both invasion games so they share a lot of similarities and then it’s just about watching a lot of games analytically to see what works and what doesn’t
@@ThinkingMansValorant Woah that's actually super interesting holy shit. Didn't think football and Valorant had much in common, but that actually makes so much sense.
@@noicentoit. Game theory is awesome because the principles from one game can, at their core, be so similar to the principles of another game
Love your vids man. I'm here since 2K.
Great content as always! Keep it up!
I need to create a round based RTS game where you have 5 units you can choose and coordinate them against another player in an FPS-like map.
Like you almost do when explaining stuff over the radar.
Just used this comp (-brim +Astra) in a 5-stack (only silver so don't write home abt it) cause this seemed super interesting. Managed to pull a decent 5-7 on Atk by mainly by violating people with utility for picks, but didn't manage to get onto A through main more than 1 round and constantly got stuck at the choke.
Def was expectedly drastically easier, and when we weren't committing low elo suicide the rounds kinda gave themselves to us.
All in all this is a concept that even us plebs could take into our matches, and I imagine you can crush some amateur mental with relative ease if you get to start on Def side.
If on that particular round I was ban I would have definitely malded at that moment
I mean KAY/O is essentially a duelist. Literally Phoenix but better.
True
I mean yeah but no but yeah but no but yeah.All of his abillities are kind of better verison of phoniexs abillities except for the signature which is still way better
not a space creating duelist which is what he means - there's a massive difference between kayo's util and jett/raze satchels/dashes/boombots/cloud bursts.
But still Jett and chamber are one of the most efficient duelists in pro games.not getting traded after an agressive kill only happens often with Jett and chamber.
@@Camus2301 While this is true, it's not exactly the reason to run a duelist. On the attacking side, Jetts usually dash into site during an execute. They only do that aggressive pick then peace out when they're on defense which is a side that doesn't necessarily "require" a duelist.
At 4:30 why didn’t he put his alarm bot on ct so the Sage could just hold main instead of watching 2 angles?
That util dump to kill a single jett has to be one of the most unfortunate but most fucking hilarious thing I've seen in a while
I'm not so sure I agree on this one. I feel like duelist is really only necessary to get through the A and B main chokes. Running it through Mid without one is easily doable as that's normally where the non duelists of the team goes on a split with the duelist at main. I do agree that better teams would adapt to this mid take better, but it could also be argued, I think, that if a better team also played this no duelist comp they could adapt to that adaptation as well.
A team like Optic is basically just using Chamber as their duelist already, I would not be surprised if they just don't play one anymore on the Jett maps and might only see them playing duelist on maps where Victor can Neon.
I have always wondered abot the potential of a duelist-less comp. I think if a team dedicates ALOT to their utility it is more then possible, even preferable on some maps (fracture comes to my mind).
Not that my elo is pro play, but i have played a few games where we go 2 sentinels, 1 controllers and 2 initiators on fracture and ascent. Those went suprisingly well, and we often got flamed by the enemy like "2 sentinel tryhards OMEGALUL". I fell a comp like that is insanely strong defence, and the potential to play around utility is massive. The one weakness i see is rounds without ults, so i think ult management would be crucial.
your videos are amazing
13:35 they also sent a shock dart either for good measure
Yeah they were like maybe maybe maybe the jett might survive
@@rippedkun meanwhile the Jett’s teammates: stop he’s already dead
I think you should analyze SBE vs Naos specifically at the icebox map with SBE’s no duelist comp.
That Jett death was brutal
Put this guy on the analyst desk for VCT
The amount of pro games in which they leave the mid lane open for the attacking side is baffling. In rank games you will rarely see a mid lane open and sometimes all 10 players are just playing for mid control. You will most likely see the main entrances for the site unguarded rather than a mid lane without someone holding it.
lol poor jett cornered and buried under utils
Personally, I think it's repeatable but only when there is some variation to the setup like going through the smoke in mid and walling it off to fake the rotation of the enemy. However, there's a catch, they need to guarantee that they can get mid control.
They played smokes, flashes, info and 2 site control.
100T ec1s was way ahead of his time. No duelist comp can work. He just didn’t have the right people with the right mindset.
nice thumbnail 🐐🐐🐐
Man ghosts this year are so good!!
I think ghost have a good amount of potential now that they picked up aproto. Keep an eye on him, he’s super crispy and he’s slept on
so the same problem with how G2 played icebox with no duelist and 3 sentinels
Triple controller haven kinda nutty
To be honest I think those kj setups were just stupid most of the time against such a team comp. If you like place an aggressive bot in the entrance oder backsite on top of the barrel it would have been much better in my opinion
whats the tool he's using for marking stuff
ohh its called epic pen, its in the description
12:50 why is no one talking about this? lmaoo
How did their Def start rocky with 2 sentinals lol.
Nismo is probably top 4 Kayo rn
Victor
Xeppa
Tex
Nismo
In no particular order but these are demons on Kayo, even on a global level, acend zeek's kayo has been really really impactful to their matches but alas being kayo never shows up on scoreboard as you can win your team an unwinable round w a well placed knife or well timed ult or well coordinated flash, and half of the time knife impact never shows up as people don't execute till they are not suppressed, and utils like ults, sova drone, skye dogs and post plant lineups that can instantly get taken down by a well placed/timed suppressed
Kayo mains have my maxxxx respect as they need peak gamesense, peak aim and mechanics of a duelist because kayo is a better entry than skye, his flashes are lowkey broken because of right click
U mean ethan instead of tex right? Tex has been playing mainly chamber since they added ethan to the lineup
@@joshuachang5602 I'm talking about previous season, challenger 1 and before, Tex used chamber on frac only and used kayo on haven, ascent and split as far as i remember
True true in my I’ve been watching a lot of kanpeki, he isn’t a kayo main but I would put him top 8 kayo for sure
if they ran mid push so many times knights couldve risked a grim wall on the bench from spawn that looks to mid without getting hit by kayo knife
Duelists are the only class imo that aren't necessary. Controllers and sentinels are absolutely necessary and initiators are important. So many Duelists are too selfish in their abilities.
I think this comp is very interesting when it comes to what they can provide for their team. I tried to comment this already but accidently deleted all of it so I am going to keep this simple with each agent
Sage :
- Has a wall that can block off choke points, provide info (if not broken), and provide cover for teammates as they push into site
- Has a heal that can heal teammates who need it after taking a heavy hitting fight
- Has slow orbs that can slow down enemy pushes
- Ult that can resurrect a teammate that can potentially win you the game
KAY/O :
- Knife that provides info on where an enemy typically is and suppresses enemies of their abilities to defend or attack (this can also cancel some ultimates)
- Flashes for teammates, along with a flash for himself. Also I believe that this is the stongest flash in the game
- Molly that can be used for offense, defense, and post-plant
-Ult that is strong for entry by suppressing enemies, faster fire-rate, and being able to be picked up if killed during ult
Brimstone :
- Smokes that are possibly the best in the game being at 15 seconds
- Stim Beacon for strong executions to push onto a site, and rotations
- Molly that can be used for offense, defense, and post-plant
-Ult that is strong for offense, defense, and post plant / plant denial
Sova :
- Recon dart that is strong for clear info. Also good on defense if you can tag one of them through a smoke, easy kill
- Drone that is good for clearing corners for your team and providing wall hacks if tagged
- Shock darts that are good for chip damage and clearing sentinel traps
- Ult that is strong on offense (clearing corners with each shot), defense (doing major damage as they are pushing into a site), and post-plant / plant denial
KJ :
- Turret for information, and small chip damage
- Molly that can be used for offense, defense, and post-plant
- Alarmbot that can provide info and create easy kills
- Ult for offense (good example being under B site, Fracture) and Defense (like you said in the first round that you showed). The ult is great for taking space if it is not destroyed
This comp feels like a good balance between offense and defense. The only downside is that they don't have any agents that can perform really well with the OP or have any get out of jail free cards. I believe if they play it right with these characters, this can be a possible OP comp.
Let me know what you think of this!
Sooo you started putting your face in thumbnails eh?
my parents marriage be like 0:00
Ah yes, another tmv vid, righton time
Kayo be a duelist
Yo talk to mutch