The Forester wins hands down for off road prowess against the RAV. We’ve always had to put studded tires on our 4WD or AWD Toyota during the winter months, but our Subie’s did great with the factory tires. That in and of itself blew me away. Also with the Forester when hauling my dad’s wheelchair around in the back of my Forester, I don’t have to fold down the rear seat, whereas I had to with every other vehicle I’ve ever owned personally. ( my wife’s Outback has enough space, but that’s her car).
The more money I spend on a vehicle the less likely I am to want to take it off road on challenging terrain. The Forester really does seem to be the more capable off road vehicle with the approach and departure angles along with the additional ground clearance. I like the way Subaru integrates their infotainment systems into their dash on all their cars. Good comparison and the cars are more similarly than I realized.
I had a RAV and now I own a Forester. Believe me, the Forester is a much more capable vehicle over the RAV any day ! I enjoyed my Rav, but I Love my Subie
@@mickeybrumfield764 2 years ago I bought my wife an Outback for her 50th birthday. She had been driving her Camry (which previously belonged to her grandmother) for over 12 years. Last December (2022), I replaced my old RAV with my Forester Touring. Because of where we live here in the PNW we really need either an AWD or a 4WD as we get 5-7 feet of snow every winter. Plus I got tired of her having to park her Camry 3-4 months a year because of the snow. She would then drive my RAV 4WD and I’d be driving our 4WD pickup. So there was method to my madness 😂
Good review I still consider the Rav4 more of a streetCar and that is where it excels in the city, the Subarus have always had all wheel drive and better grip off road. I would pick the Subaru since I do like the all wheel grip.
Thanks! That means a lot. 🙂 I’ve only been doing this as a hobby/part time job for 1.5 years. Can’t wait to see what experiences and videos I put out in the down the road!
Thanks for your review and it’s clear that where the RAV4 was advantageous, you downplayed it. I think the clear winner is the RAV4 Woodland edition that comes with an approx. 39 mpg efficiency with its super reliable and matured Hybrid engine and historically more reliable transmission and better resale value. Yet I also like the Subaru Forester and Outback models.
I have a RAV4 for 2 years and 52k miles. Never owned a Subaru but have been around a few and driven a few. The Subaru is the better all around car and better for rough roads for the reasons discussed here. The strong card for the RAV4 is that it’s a Toyota and it has the long term reliability advantage. I personally don’t really go off road and for the rare occasion that I do, the RAV4 gets the job done. I saw somebody mention that their Subaru with factory tires performs equally well to the Toyota with studded tires. That speaks to Subaru’s superior AWD system but in real life there just isn’t a replacement for good rubber. The reason I say it is that before this RAV4 I had a FWD car all these years and I never felt lacking in traction because I had good tires. With that being said, for someone like me the superiority of the Subaru AWD alone would not be the deal breaker. Longevity and reliability would be the priority for me.
Great insight! It’s unfortunate we can’t have Toyota reliability with their engine/hybrids, automatic transmission, and Subaru’s AWD. Now that’s the partnership I want to see, lol.
I’m pretty sure it is quite possible technically but wouldn’t make much business sense. Also, it might retard progress and advancements. The current state of things leaves the competitors with their respective advantages and disadvantages, makes the manufacturers come up with new advancements to stay competitive. Not sure if you’ve heard of Hayes trucks, but they were a Canadian company that went bankrupt due to their robustness and high quality. The first few years they sold many trucks (mostly for logging business), then once people had their trucks, the company started seeing drop in sales. Because the trucks were so reliable, parts were not needed. So, no revenue was coming in from parts sales. Long story short, Hayes trucks are now history because they were just too good for their own good…
I appreciate you sharing that interesting and unfortunate story, I’ve never heard of them. With new technology and complexity sometimes reliability and long term dependability come into question. But it’s nice to see overall vehicles are getting better and lasting longer, while being much more efficient and safe.
WOW I LOVE the Red of the Rav. Before buying my Forester Touring, I looked at a new RAV4 AWD Limited hybrid. I have to admit that I was disappointed with the performance, comfort, road and engine noise, fit and finish. My previous 2011 RAV4 was a much better vehicle than the new RAV4. I also looked at the Toyota Venza but the only interior colors available were Gloomy, Depressing, Drab, Dated, Boring Grey or Black that have been shoved down everyone’s throats since 1990 and as you know, we simply refuse to buy another vehicle with those 34 year old puky colors. My wife’s Outback has Ivory interior and she Loves the contrast of the Cinnamon Brown exterior with the Ivory interior. After I bought my Forester with the Saddle Brown interior, she told me that she wished that I would have bought her the Outback Touring for the Napa Brown interior. I showed her a picture of the 24 Forester that will be available with the RAVs hybrid system. She then asked if I would mind in 25 or 26 if we can sell her Outback and buy her a Forester Touring hybrid. I think she thinks that I’d be offended if she sold her Outback, (because I bought it for her 50th birthday gift), but by now she should know that I’m very frugal and going from 29mpg to 40mpg is the way to go. She also likes how the seats in my Forester sits up higher than her Outback. Personally I think she likes my Forester more than her Outback. You know the old saying, A happy wife is a happy life. … But if she gets the new Forester Touring hybrid, perhaps I can swing selling my Forester Touring and our Ranger XLT super cab 4X4, (currently only 36K miles) so I can pay cash for a new Tacoma Limited hybrid 4WD 😁
It’s a toss up on these two for me. As a Subaru owner, I am fiercely loyal. But not to the Forester. It’s always been homely, slow, and cheap feeling compared to the Outback or Ascent. But where the Forester shines is the awd system doesn’t overheat in the Forester like the RAV4 does and goes to front wheel drive only. The RAV4 simply cannot distribute the torque around like a Subaru can. One thing Subaru has to learn is the Startex seats are horrible. Yeah they’re durable, but they are hot, sticky, and need to be perforated with a cooled seat option. I have an Outback XT touring simply because of the cooled seats. I’m not sure which I’d choose here. Probably neither.
They're both great vehicles, and pretty similar in size and function too. The Forester has a more sophisticated AWD system, and a smidge more ground clearance - while it's not a hardcore off roader, a great AWD system is helpful on-road in snowy northern states, and a lot of people will use them for e.g. going on the beach, or taking a forest road out to a lake for fishing or camping - they can handle a little more than the RAV4 that way. I think the Eyesight ADAS system in the Forester is better than Toyota's Safety Sense as well. However I would probably trust the long term reliability of the Toyota a little more. You really can't go wrong with either choice.
Whos cares about off Road performance anyway. :-) I have a 2105 Forester that had the dreaded CVT problem , it was replace by Subaru and then my Transmission control module went bad because of some issue with the wiring in the harness from the new transmission. Should also be covered by Subaru. Car has 36 K miles on it !! Everything else about the Subaru I like . Dealer gave me a 2023 Forester first time around and now second time a 2023 Outback . Both cars ride and feel great but that CVT would be my main concern for both the Subaru and much less so for the Toyota . Yes Subaru has worked out the issues but you can just fix a CVT you have to replace it so I would probably go with a Mazda .
My base Forester gets 33mpg on paper and can do any roads either of those can. Also RAV4's are not as stable in emergency maneuvers per consumer reports and are worse in snow from what I've read.
When it comes to all-wheel drive without locking differentials and other true 4x4 kit, Subarus, especially the Outback Wilderness with its extra ground clearance and the turbo engine, at minimum eke out a win over some other AWD vehicles while handily besting the rest of them. Between the two vehicles in this particular video, off-road and foul-weather duels have given the Forester the win every time. Only true 4WD systems can beat Subarus, and even then only in very specific scenarios, though never as daily drivers. Subaru's got some serious witchcraft up its sleeves in its AWD system and offers probably the best balance of safety, comfort, and capability in the automotive industry, and it does it all at far lower MSRPs than the competition. Try to build similarly spec'd rides on other companies' websites, and the price differences will quickly become jaw-dropping, even on vehicles that don't have as many creature comforts as options, let alone as standard features. Subarus just kick so much ass. 🙂
Amen! Although they do seem rather sorted out, the idea of an expensive replacement rather than a rebuild is an unsettling thought. Thanks for watching! 🙂
You said the Subaru gets an extra inch of sidewall. That's wrong. The toyota gets an extra inch of overall tire diameter at 28.6" vs 27.6" on the Subaru. But the sidewalls on each tire are the exact same.
It probably doesn’t matter to most people, but for some reason it does to me, lol. I try to include that on almost all of my reviews for the few people like me who might like to know what a real person is experiencing and not just what the claimed times are. Thanks for watching! 🙂
Buy a Nissan Rogue instead, even the base model has the 37mpg turbocharged engine. It will perform much better at altitude, have way more midrange torque, and its more economical to operate and the Rogue is almost identical on interior dimensions to the Wilderness and Rav4. Interior of the Rogue is also nicer than either IMO. Rav4 is best in hybrid, which have markups, the Forester needs an interior refresh, and that's why I ended up with a base Rogue S, although most people will probably want to get the SV.
@@bradybernhart670 Hey, as long as you are happy with your Forester, that's all that matters. If you want to look at it objectively though, April 2023 issue of Consumer Reports ranks the Rogue in highest predicted reliability, least reported issues, and one of their top ranked in class, considerably above the non-hybrid Rav4. They do rate the Forester highly though too.
They sold 286K of them in 2021, and it won 1st place in Motor Trend's '23 compact SUV class shootout. CRV got 2nd place and Forester 3rd. Forester might have been higher but its overdue for a refresh in the infotainment dept. Then again, so is the Rogue but its getting the new infotainment from the Maxima for 2024. @@TexasCorgiGun
I think you’re right, especially as the vehicle model as a whole, as is evident by how much better selling the Toyota is. But I do think in this specific trim level a lot of people care more about the usefulness and capability of this vehicle rather than the general assumption of long term reliability. But that’s just my opinion and based off of what I’ve seen people report on the forums. I would be curious to know how many of the yearly units sold are in fact these trim levels to know which one actually outsells the other. 🤷♂️🙂
The Forester wins hands down for off road prowess against the RAV.
We’ve always had to put studded tires on our 4WD or AWD Toyota during the winter months, but our Subie’s did great with the factory tires.
That in and of itself blew me away.
Also with the Forester when hauling my dad’s wheelchair around in the back of my Forester, I don’t have to fold down the rear seat, whereas I had to with every other vehicle I’ve ever owned personally. ( my wife’s Outback has enough space, but that’s her car).
The more money I spend on a vehicle the less likely I am to want to take it off road on challenging terrain. The Forester really does seem to be the more capable off road vehicle with the approach and departure angles along with the additional ground clearance. I like the way Subaru integrates their infotainment systems into their dash on all their cars. Good comparison and the cars are more similarly than I realized.
I had a RAV and now I own a Forester.
Believe me, the Forester is a much more capable vehicle over the RAV any day !
I enjoyed my Rav, but I Love my Subie
@Doc1855
I owned a Forester now have an Outback, really like the Forester Wilderness, though.
@@mickeybrumfield764 2 years ago I bought my wife an Outback for her 50th birthday. She had been driving her Camry (which previously belonged to her grandmother) for over 12 years.
Last December (2022), I replaced my old RAV with my Forester Touring.
Because of where we live here in the PNW we really need either an AWD or a 4WD as we get 5-7 feet of snow every winter.
Plus I got tired of her having to park her Camry 3-4 months a year because of the snow. She would then drive my RAV 4WD and I’d be driving our 4WD pickup.
So there was method to my madness 😂
Good review I still consider the Rav4 more of a streetCar and that is where it excels in the city, the Subarus have always had all wheel drive and better grip off road. I would pick the Subaru since I do like the all wheel grip.
You’ve summed it up well. Thanks for watching! 🙂
Underrated channel. Very good info and presentation. Keep it up 👍
Thanks! That means a lot. 🙂 I’ve only been doing this as a hobby/part time job for 1.5 years. Can’t wait to see what experiences and videos I put out in the down the road!
Thanks for your review and it’s clear that where the RAV4 was advantageous, you downplayed it. I think the clear winner is the RAV4 Woodland edition that comes with an approx. 39 mpg efficiency with its super reliable and matured Hybrid engine and historically more reliable transmission and better resale value. Yet I also like the Subaru Forester and Outback models.
Another fun video. Thank you for sharing it. 🙂
I’m glad you enjoyed it! 🙂
I have a RAV4 for 2 years and 52k miles. Never owned a Subaru but have been around a few and driven a few. The Subaru is the better all around car and better for rough roads for the reasons discussed here. The strong card for the RAV4 is that it’s a Toyota and it has the long term reliability advantage. I personally don’t really go off road and for the rare occasion that I do, the RAV4 gets the job done. I saw somebody mention that their Subaru with factory tires performs equally well to the Toyota with studded tires. That speaks to Subaru’s superior AWD system but in real life there just isn’t a replacement for good rubber. The reason I say it is that before this RAV4 I had a FWD car all these years and I never felt lacking in traction because I had good tires. With that being said, for someone like me the superiority of the Subaru AWD alone would not be the deal breaker. Longevity and reliability would be the priority for me.
Great insight! It’s unfortunate we can’t have Toyota reliability with their engine/hybrids, automatic transmission, and Subaru’s AWD. Now that’s the partnership I want to see, lol.
I’m pretty sure it is quite possible technically but wouldn’t make much business sense. Also, it might retard progress and advancements. The current state of things leaves the competitors with their respective advantages and disadvantages, makes the manufacturers come up with new advancements to stay competitive. Not sure if you’ve heard of Hayes trucks, but they were a Canadian company that went bankrupt due to their robustness and high quality. The first few years they sold many trucks (mostly for logging business), then once people had their trucks, the company started seeing drop in sales. Because the trucks were so reliable, parts were not needed. So, no revenue was coming in from parts sales. Long story short, Hayes trucks are now history because they were just too good for their own good…
I appreciate you sharing that interesting and unfortunate story, I’ve never heard of them. With new technology and complexity sometimes reliability and long term dependability come into question. But it’s nice to see overall vehicles are getting better and lasting longer, while being much more efficient and safe.
LOVE my SFW!!!
WOW I LOVE the Red of the Rav.
Before buying my Forester Touring, I looked at a new RAV4 AWD Limited hybrid.
I have to admit that I was disappointed with the performance, comfort, road and engine noise, fit and finish.
My previous 2011 RAV4 was a much better vehicle than the new RAV4.
I also looked at the Toyota Venza but the only interior colors available were Gloomy, Depressing, Drab, Dated, Boring Grey or Black that have been shoved down everyone’s throats since 1990 and as you know, we simply refuse to buy another vehicle with those 34 year old puky colors.
My wife’s Outback has Ivory interior and she Loves the contrast of the Cinnamon Brown exterior with the Ivory interior.
After I bought my Forester with the Saddle Brown interior, she told me that she wished that I would have bought her the Outback Touring for the Napa Brown interior.
I showed her a picture of the 24 Forester that will be available with the RAVs hybrid system. She then asked if I would mind in 25 or 26 if we can sell her Outback and buy her a Forester Touring hybrid.
I think she thinks that I’d be offended if she sold her Outback, (because I bought it for her 50th birthday gift), but by now she should know that I’m very frugal and going from 29mpg to 40mpg is the way to go. She also likes how the seats in my Forester sits up higher than her Outback.
Personally I think she likes my Forester more than her Outback.
You know the old saying, A happy wife is a happy life.
… But if she gets the new Forester Touring hybrid, perhaps I can swing selling my Forester Touring and our Ranger XLT super cab 4X4, (currently only 36K miles) so I can pay cash for a new Tacoma Limited hybrid 4WD 😁
It’s a toss up on these two for me. As a Subaru owner, I am fiercely loyal. But not to the Forester. It’s always been homely, slow, and cheap feeling compared to the Outback or Ascent. But where the Forester shines is the awd system doesn’t overheat in the Forester like the RAV4 does and goes to front wheel drive only. The RAV4 simply cannot distribute the torque around like a Subaru can. One thing Subaru has to learn is the Startex seats are horrible. Yeah they’re durable, but they are hot, sticky, and need to be perforated with a cooled seat option. I have an Outback XT touring simply because of the cooled seats. I’m not sure which I’d choose here. Probably neither.
They're both great vehicles, and pretty similar in size and function too. The Forester has a more sophisticated AWD system, and a smidge more ground clearance - while it's not a hardcore off roader, a great AWD system is helpful on-road in snowy northern states, and a lot of people will use them for e.g. going on the beach, or taking a forest road out to a lake for fishing or camping - they can handle a little more than the RAV4 that way. I think the Eyesight ADAS system in the Forester is better than Toyota's Safety Sense as well. However I would probably trust the long term reliability of the Toyota a little more. You really can't go wrong with either choice.
You’ve summed it up well! That’s for watching and writing this. 🙂
In performance the Subaru wins. But the Toyota has better build quality
Whos cares about off Road performance anyway. :-) I have a 2105 Forester that had the dreaded CVT problem , it was replace by Subaru and then my Transmission control module went bad because of some issue with the wiring in the harness from the new transmission. Should also be covered by Subaru. Car has 36 K miles on it !! Everything else about the Subaru I like . Dealer gave me a 2023 Forester first time around and now second time a 2023 Outback . Both cars ride and feel great but that CVT would be my main concern for both the Subaru and much less so for the Toyota . Yes Subaru has worked out the issues but you can just fix a CVT you have to replace it so I would probably go with a Mazda .
I’m sorry to hear about your CVT problems, but I really appreciate you sharing your experience here for people to read and be aware of. 🙂
My base Forester gets 33mpg on paper and can do any roads either of those can. Also RAV4's are not as stable in emergency maneuvers per consumer reports and are worse in snow from what I've read.
When it comes to all-wheel drive without locking differentials and other true 4x4 kit, Subarus, especially the Outback Wilderness with its extra ground clearance and the turbo engine, at minimum eke out a win over some other AWD vehicles while handily besting the rest of them. Between the two vehicles in this particular video, off-road and foul-weather duels have given the Forester the win every time. Only true 4WD systems can beat Subarus, and even then only in very specific scenarios, though never as daily drivers.
Subaru's got some serious witchcraft up its sleeves in its AWD system and offers probably the best balance of safety, comfort, and capability in the automotive industry, and it does it all at far lower MSRPs than the competition. Try to build similarly spec'd rides on other companies' websites, and the price differences will quickly become jaw-dropping, even on vehicles that don't have as many creature comforts as options, let alone as standard features.
Subarus just kick so much ass. 🙂
I wish Subaru would ditch the CVT transmission
Amen! Although they do seem rather sorted out, the idea of an expensive replacement rather than a rebuild is an unsettling thought. Thanks for watching! 🙂
Why? CVT are the most efficient transmission. They are so efficient that they are even banned from F1.
😂
You said the Subaru gets an extra inch of sidewall. That's wrong. The toyota gets an extra inch of overall tire diameter at 28.6" vs 27.6" on the Subaru. But the sidewalls on each tire are the exact same.
I got a forester wilderness 4 months it's all ready messing up have the dealership getting me a different one really kinda hating it
Dang. I’m sorry to hear that! What’s it been doing?
Can you do a outback wilderness and the rav4 trd off road
That’s a good idea and I’ll keep it in mind for the future! 🙂
@@AutomotiveAnonymous208 yes they are very close in price as well
No one break the rav4!subaru lot of stuff but rav4 stay humble looks but looks aggresive look
I really wonder if 0-60 times even matter to the demographic that these vehicles are purchased by….its certainly the last thing on my list .
It probably doesn’t matter to most people, but for some reason it does to me, lol. I try to include that on almost all of my reviews for the few people like me who might like to know what a real person is experiencing and not just what the claimed times are. Thanks for watching! 🙂
TRD = what does that sound like people, come on Toyota. The acronym is so stupid because they forgot the “U”😄
Lol 😂
Buy a Nissan Rogue instead, even the base model has the 37mpg turbocharged engine. It will perform much better at altitude, have way more midrange torque, and its more economical to operate and the Rogue is almost identical on interior dimensions to the Wilderness and Rav4. Interior of the Rogue is also nicer than either IMO. Rav4 is best in hybrid, which have markups, the Forester needs an interior refresh, and that's why I ended up with a base Rogue S, although most people will probably want to get the SV.
Very good insight, I appreciate you sharing your perspective and experience with the Rouge! 🙂
Renault....LOL....Thanks for the laugh.
@@bradybernhart670 Hey, as long as you are happy with your Forester, that's all that matters. If you want to look at it objectively though, April 2023 issue of Consumer Reports ranks the Rogue in highest predicted reliability, least reported issues, and one of their top ranked in class, considerably above the non-hybrid Rav4. They do rate the Forester highly though too.
@@BoopSnootNissan ? Are you kidding?
They sold 286K of them in 2021, and it won 1st place in Motor Trend's '23 compact SUV class shootout. CRV got 2nd place and Forester 3rd. Forester might have been higher but its overdue for a refresh in the infotainment dept. Then again, so is the Rogue but its getting the new infotainment from the Maxima for 2024. @@TexasCorgiGun
The toyota will outlast the subaru and have fewer problems doing it. That is more important to people in this segment than offroading.
I think you’re right, especially as the vehicle model as a whole, as is evident by how much better selling the Toyota is. But I do think in this specific trim level a lot of people care more about the usefulness and capability of this vehicle rather than the general assumption of long term reliability. But that’s just my opinion and based off of what I’ve seen people report on the forums. I would be curious to know how many of the yearly units sold are in fact these trim levels to know which one actually outsells the other. 🤷♂️🙂
CVT sucks