I’m a Toyota fanboy, admittedly. Reliability of Toyota vs Subaru long term leans heavily towards Toyota. However, 40k dollars is crackpipe-action for the RAV4. The Subaru is 100% the better buy for most folks. I am a true Toyota fan and will remain loyal, but the Subaru is an incredible value.
The Subaru's overheat with minimal throttle adjustment off road. And wimpy CVT. No thanks haha. It's a woman's car. If I can't take my 4x4 truck, then I would take that yoda for sure.
@@Jay-bw3fl gotta say yes way more headroom. I have a 2017 Tacoma and i hit my head regularly or my hat brushes against the sun visor. Gfs cross trek has plenty of leg room, better seating position and more head room. Even the tundra doesn’t come close to other brands
@@TonkaFire2019 Yep. I love Toyota but every model is severely lacking in headroom for people with long torsos like myself. I’m only 5’10” but I have to lean the seat back to fit in the rav4 with the seat all the way down. Headroom is the main reason I never bought a Tacoma. Always wanted one.
@@TheMeanmarine13I haven’t seen a single video of a Subaru overheating. Also enough with the CVT not all of them are bad just the Jatco’s in Honda, Mitsubishi, and Nissan. No one likes a bug that says things in opposition just for the sake of saying things in opposition.
I sold my 97 Toyota 4Runner last year, which I bought new. I've also owned 2 Rav4s. My last one was a 2012 model. I loved them all and never thought I would own anything other than a Toyota. Obviously a bit of off road capability is important to me. I was in the market last year for a new car. These were the exact 2 cars that my search boiled down to. I chose the Subaru for all the reasons that you mentioned. But there were things that were such a huge difference like: Visibility in the Subaru was infinitely better. The Subaru came with skid plates. To me, the interior was vastly superior in the Subaru - the screen in the Toyota looks like someone taped on an iPad. The tires on both are light A/Ts but the Geolanders are 3 peak rated. The back seat in the RAV4 felt claustrophobic - probably because the windows are so small. It was also easier to access the back seat in the Subaru - I have a kid now. I live in Canada and the price differential was almost $10,000. But, even if price was not a consideration, I would still rather have the Forester Wilderness. I bought the Subaru (I can't believe it still). I love it.
I was a Toyota driver for a long time and really don't have any complaints about them whatsoever. The Toyotas I drove were quite simply, bulletproof. My reason for going with the Subaru had a lot to do with the interior space. The RAV has always just felt a little too cramped for me, whereas with the Subaru, you can push the driver seat all the way back, and even at 6'3, I can jump in the rear seat behind the driver seat and still have great leg room. Subaru just does a great job with interior space. As far as the interior attributes, does Toyota come off as a little more "stylish"? Maybe. But I appreciate the functionality and the simplicity of the Subaru. And how they really haven't changed their interior all that much. Maybe it's because they know Subaru drivers don't need stylish. They provide what their drivers want. I love my Forester, and it just might be my favorite vehicle of all time. Great review, by the way.
@@g.a.duncan3608 Maybe for American standards it is a woman's SUV. In Europe however it's seen as a capable SUV, 1650 kg trailer for a hybrid. Awd that is capable to drive in wet slick grass . No complaints. Good At tyre and it suits my needs. Plus the 10 year guarantee with road side assistance made us pull the trigger on a 4.5 year AWD hybrid. Mpg that most small hatchbacks can't compete with
Roller testing would really give it best fair comparison... on rollers the Subaru definitely wins with X mode, it gets pulled out of three rollers while the RAV4 does not, if the RAV4 would have A-Trac, it might would be a whole different result, because the Subaru did a lot of spins in X mode to get out of three Corner rollers
If this is the kind of stuff you plan to do often there's no way in hell I'd be buying either of these. How many of these trips you think the same vehicle can do before it rips off a bumper, smashes the oil pan, shreds a tire or cooks it's transmission? They're doing this test 1 time, with brand new vehicles. Do it often and I'd be amazed if you made it 3+ months without getting towed home
Loved hearing you finally admit the Forester W is a capable off road vehicle without the turbo. It drove me nuts that people who test drive vehicles for free slagged this off for no turbo and no heated steering wheel (yup). I spent less up front to buy this car and I’ll spend less on upkeep with better fuel economy. Great video and I’m glad this underrated and misunderstood gem of a car is finally getting the recognition it deserves.
The problem is the the Forester is too expensive without the turbo and it will have issues at high altitude. The turbo on the OBW make its a completely different driving experience at slow or high speed. I come from a 2020 Forester to an OBW and the Outback is much smoother and confortable to drive by a mile.
Either way with turbo or no turbo both will fail. Subaru has had major problems with their turbo engines, some of the worst in the industry. A lot of people don't understand how boxer engines are inherently worse than a regular displacement. Horizontal pistons wear faster based on gravity, it's common sense. More friction when a piston is traveling side to side is a big reason they eventually fail and poor gasket design is typical of Subaru`s.
@@glow4417 That's happens from time to time, but it is not the norm if you drive the vehicle how it should be driven. People with issues with turbo are racing their car day after day, so it is no surprised here that gaskets, piston, oil, etc starts to break down faster. I have had 3 turbo Suby since 2000s and none ever had any issues. Of course, I took great care of them and didn't go to the corner shop to do its maintenant either. That's the other reason why a car has issues today sooner then they should: corner shops. Those cars aren't GMs, Fords or Dodge and they required knowledge that aren't comparable sometimes with NA cars.
@@Traumatreecan still last a long time, but it's not the norm for them to last longer than a vertical cylinder. Because it's basic physics. No amount of oil is going to help your engine last longer, when metal is being pushed down to touch metal. Subaru's just doesn't care to design their cars to last along time. They're not designed that way. If they were they would abandon the boxer engine and the CVT and go with something more reliable with much better durability... but they don't care. Subaru markets their cars as staying on the road longer than other car manufacturers, but in reality that's just because people spend more money to keep them on the road. Subaru owners are basically loyal to a fault and love their cars and Subaru massively benefts from that. I've talked to many mechanics who have told me, "no customer spends more on fixing their vehicles than Subaru owners". And I've talked mechanics who have said, "I've never had to take apart a 4runner or rav4 motor in over 30 years in the industry". The engineering between Subaru and Toyota is not even close. Toyota 8 speed traditional automatic and eCVT are basically bullet proof. Toyota's eCVT is used in taxis around the world, and routinely goes 300k miles without failure. It's a shame Subaru does a lot of good things with their vehicles, but they do need to improve their reliability and durability across the board - especially if they want to pretend to be as reliable as a Toyota.
@@glow4417 Well, I've seen a lot of Hondas, Toyotas or any other car manufacturer's engine opened in every dealer I ever went to do maintenance on my cars. Toyotas are good, but same goes for most other brands since the last 2 decades when you do proper car of your vehicle. 75% of the people don't know how to drive and what attention you need to give to your vehicle in order for them to last. Subaru boxer engine and their CVT are able to do 40+ MPG (Forester 2020 I owned was able to that easily) with permenent AWD all the time. Try that with any other brand (Toyota, not really) then come again.
People will look back in 5-10+ years and realize the Forester Wilderness was the last of the great SUVs. Naturally aspirated, physical buttons, switches, and knobs, smaller diameter wheels, rugged straight from the factory, improved gearing and crawl ratio, better clearance, better departure/approach. The absolute best in its class and best value for the money for any SUV.
I have driven Toyotas all of my life but bought a Forester in 2018 (for my wife to drive around town) over a Rav4 bc it was cheaper, came with AWD standard, best rated safety, the loan had 0% apr, and the fact that she thought it looked better. Unfortunately, 2 of the control arms broke within 2 years of regular city and highway driving (7,500 miles per year), and the MPG was nowhere close to the advertised 26 city/33 highway/ 29 average (22 MPG average was what she was getting). So, I traded it in for the Rav4 Prime and am very happy with the purchase. Sorry Subaru, but, Toyotas are just so much more reliable. And the price for peace of mind is worth the extra cost, not to mention the pure joy I have when seeing how spot on it is to its advertised MPG Stats.
Having driven a quite a few of these type of vehicles since I'm in the market for one, I've settled on the Forester Wilderness in the Autumn Green and upgraded stereo/nav option. 😁
As a current Forester Wilderness owner, I admit the RAV4 looks pretty sweet. However, I can’t justify the price different. BONUS: I was able to qualify for a supplier discount with Subaru and saved an extra $2,300 😊.
Price difference is easily worth it when you factor in future repairs. A lot of people freak out over the cost of Toyota's, but know nothing about the superior engineering and parts used. Trust me, owned both brands and the Subaru will always end up costing more if you end keeping the car long-term.
I heard the same thing about Honda. Prior to buying a Subaru, I owned a 2019 Honda Civic Si. My plan was to keep it as my daily commuter. Turbo failed at 62k miles. After $8k in repairs, I’m giving Subaru a shot. Toyota may be next, but so far I’m enjoying the Forester Wilderness.
maybe if you got to drive the rav 4 as a regular road vehicle, yes. More torque, more things to tow. I have a rav 4 adventure and I would chose it over the forrester any day just because it has more HP and torque. you can slap a 1inch rise on the supnsion which would be the best and cheapest impactful upgrade too. the price tag is a bit much to swallow but combine it with toyota's reliablity factor, that is just enough for me to say yes to toyota.
What I like both about you guys is the engagement you have w the audience. Also, in your adventurers, you guys talk to us as friends and really connect. Amazing video! Definitely proud to be a subie owner
Definitely thee reason why I went with a forester wilderness, same color because of showing how capable it is in these videos.. absolutely incredible and I feel complete freedom
How does a TRD Off Road package not have a basic item such as skid plates? Kinda makes TRD package seem a bit like a poser package instead of a trail ready one.
As a Wilderness Owner and long time Subaru Outback owner I think you (and almost everyone) share a common misunderstanding about X mode. It is not Regular, Dirt, Deep Snow, in order . Rather it is three seperate conditions with regular in the middle and for MOST secenarios, even difficult ones offroad, you want to be in Regular mode, i.e. not in dirt, not in deep snow. Regular mode is the best compromise between the extremes of no wheel spin vs maximum momentum with some wheel spin. Regular gives you a sort or middle of the road approach which is usually better 90% of the time for most situations. I get why people think it is Good, Better, Best. But that really isn't how it works. And Regular mode CAN and WILL outperform the other two modes in mixed conditions where you basically want the standard mode logic to make a judgement call based on fuzzy logic. They even started putting Regular mode in the MIDDLE of the other two modes in graphics and controls, to help people understand that Regular mode is a MIX of two extremes, and IS the best mode to be in 99% of the time Even offroad. I have had my Subaru in deep snow, dirt, deep soft sand, water, mud, etc, I am am fully prepared to air down or use an Xmode. But I've had it for almost a year now (Outback Wilderness), and honestly I have not felt the need. It does great offroad, and frankly better than the other two modes, when you just leave it alone. I certainly would not have needed any of those other Xmodes in that park, except maybe dirt going over those slipper stumps.. Looks like fun. Also I should state that I have bigger taller wider Falken WIldpeak Trail AT's on a slightly wider wheel, so that might go along with my not feeling the need for the Xmodes. Peoples needs may vary. p.s. The line you took him on was fine. You told him to keep that slight right angle, and he didn't believe you and turned left and fell off. A spotter is only as good as the ability of the driver to follow instructions, and this is WAY harder than people realize because the driver has all kinds of inputs that are frequently at odds with what a good spotter is seeing. Also, this is a video, and I may be totally wrong about this, because of the lens perspective. It looked like he drove off the side of the slippery log, but maybe he had to for another part of the line. Databyter
As a Forester Wilderness owner who obsessed over comparison research beforehand (thank you for your numerous video contributions to that research!), I’ve concluded that in the 35-45k price range, Forester Wilderness is my own ideal compromise between daily comfort and overlanding capability, Bronco Sport would probably be my next stop if giving up comfort for capability, and the RAV4 TRD (I seriously looked at a Tacoma, but concluded that it wasn’t the ideal fit for my life the 363 days per year that I’m not in deep woods) would probably be the stop in the opposite direction-giving up a little capability for comfort. I haven’t found that Honda’s offerings are capable enough, and Jeep isn’t as reliable as I’d like for the price.
@@huntstyle fair point…with the Broncos and Bronco Sports being entire new product lines, there isn’t a whole lot of historical data about their long term reliability, regardless of the broader Ford family.
@@tayloranderson616 yep, I’ve had mine for 10 months, 18000 miles and a few dirt roads, albeit with few tests of serious capabilities, and it has performed wonderfully at every step.
Enjoyed watching this episode. Ryan and Nick has good on camera interaction. I love the video editing work of a “split screen” of the vehicles navigating through the same section of the trail. BUT … I would like to see the vehicles carry some cargo weight to simulate a more “real life” scenario. If I was taking the Subaru out for a day driving up the mountains, I would be carrying some gear in the back (recovery gear, food, water, etc.). Carrying cargo weight would better test those clearances on the vehicles.
I do want to see more Forrester stuff. I just bought this car in the wilderness and I love it and I haven’t had a chance to take it out myself, so I want to live vicariously through you!❤
Thank you for the thorough reviews. I was looking for a vehicle that would be more capable than a dedicated city car, offering strong value, reliability, AWD, and ability to drive down forest roads without worrying about it. In stock form. The Forester Wilderness checked most of the boxes for me and ultimately was a clear decision. As with most purchases most things do not check all boxes and purchase decisions involve trade offs. Your reviews and what they made me think about and consider in a vehicle were very helpful and important. For instance most test drives at a dealer, including Jeep Wrangler, take you on a freeway and done. That gives you no sense of comfort and ability when testing AWD/off-road vehicles. Bottom line, your reviews influenced my decision and I am a happy FW owner. Thank you!
Got the Subaru Forester Wilderness at the end of November and have been enjoying it. Got it for less than 40k fully loaded which for the money is a great bang for your buck. I’ve tested the off-road category myself and it’s very fun. Mpg is the only downside, I avg 22mpg and get a little over 300 miles per tank which isn’t too bad compared to other competitors which get less mpg or about the same. It’s a great suv/crossover
Forester starts @ $7,000 less money and comes with a front mounted trail cam, higher ground clearance and under armor protection. Is there really a question as to which one you should buy? lol
The intro Ryan sang nick was blown away at the high note also I find nick has a calming voice with Ryan they really balance out the channel really well love you guys soo much when nick is in a episode I am super happy
It was really nice to see you guys mention the price difference multiple times. A lot of videos that compare the wilderness with other off road capable cars, forget to mention how much more affordable the Suby is than most of the other options out there. Especially in todays crazy market.
Thanks Subaru for letting us all enjoy the Forester Wilderness long term with Ryan and Nick. That off road park looked like a ton fun and you and nick have great on screen chemistry. I hope to see more vehicles on those trails! (BS Badlands, Maverick Tremor, New Jeep Compass with the 2.0T) I'm surprised these off road trims arnt supplied water fording specs. Ford calls out the BS Badlands 23" pretty regularly in their info.
Have had my Forester Wilderness for a few months averaging 25.6 mpg, 27 on a recent long trip. My last Forester was 13 years old with 170,000. My hubs was a Subaru mechanic, he loves them. Loved my Hondas and Toyotas, drove all comps before buying this. The suspension is softer, great ride.
I watch your tests regularly :) I'm in Ukraine and I want to thank you for the wonderful and perfectly clear English! The difference is felt when I listened to Nick :) Your tests are the best
Just a quick additional comment…you guys handle the comment trolls with class, so just wanted to give you props for that. A lot of the comments, that I’ve seen anyway, revolve around how you guys “make a big deal out of small obstacles. “ I think most people understand that the reason you do it because these are test/press fleet vehicles and therefore you can’t treat them or drive them the same way might if they were your own vehicles as you have to turn them back in basically unharmed. As evidenced by your Bronco vs. 4Runner in Colorado video you have a different damage threshold for vehicles you own and are willing to take more risk. Anyway not trying to rush to your defense, you clearly don’t need it. Just wanted to give credit where credit is due.
Nice comparison. I do think though if you are planning on comparing the awd systems of each vehicle I think the comparison should be done with both vehicles having the same tires. Tire traction is almost as important as the actual awd system.
But not everyone is buying a brand new car and changing tyres. If the Rav or Forester can't do something, that's what I'll experience if I buy it too. Any changes in the future I do to my car, is to make it better vehicle, but that's my choice.
From my understanding not all manufacturers allow the tester to change the tires. Also most folks will drive it with whatever tires come on the vehicle when they buy it.Or at least they will till the originals wear out.
I love that bam bam part in the begining. You mentioning it cracked me up! Please never change it lol. I can't wait to see more Forester Wilderness videos like you mentioned.
Any plans to test the RAV4 Hybrid Woodland? I think the RAV4 line really shines with the hybrid power train but curious to see how the “outdoorsy” trim fares
Thanks for actually picking a winner. Tired of watching comparison tests where they "just can't pick a winner". Well done on the side-by-side videos as well.
I'd be really curious if you ever did a "retrospective", using a very old version of either of these vehicles to see if the technology has actually improved AT ALL over the many years. My guess is "Not by much" or even a big fat NO. Last year I picked up a 2009 Rav4 V6. I've yet to have a problem in deep snow, turning off traction control seems to be basically the same as "deep snow and mud", while normal driving seems to have plenty of traction shifting if needed. Plus, the V6 makes it a fun little stealth rocket :) The lifeblood of these shows is really the year to year incremental changes, but it would be really beneficial to the wider community to see if any of them are worth it over a used vehicle.
Yes that would be an excellent video. I believe you would find that Subaru with the add on off-road package would beat any similar vehicle of it's class over the same course.
I think with what you get for what you spend...Subaru hands down. But I did notice on that obstacle with the stumps and rocks that the Rav4 had less wheel spin. Price of the Rav4 is insane though.
Actually it's the Subaru that's over-priced. You're looking at a car that will need massive repairs over a Toyota in it's lifetime. Subaru CVTs are cheap, they save Subaru a lot of money and allow them to keep the cost down. Heck, anytime you look at a Subaru with a CVT, you need to minus 5k to 6k off the real price... because it will last at least half as long as a traditional automatic or a Toyota eCVT and you will end up replacing it. Honestly, Subaru is easily one of the best cars to lease. Subaru's don't last long without extensive repairs, but have high residual value for good lease prices.
@@glow4417 Subaru cvt and Wilderness cvt are different gear ratio crawl ratio also have transmission cooler. I don't like cvt but Wilderness cvt way more reliable than regular subaru cvt. Subaru upgraded cvt just like Honda and Toyota. Early cvt have lots of problem for any jdm brand. Toyota and Honda offer almost every cvt model just like Subaru. Do you think better Honda and Toyata better cvt no there all same league but They don't put every model cvt. I wish Subaru some specific model better transmissions.
Totally agree over all your comments but at the end of the day I'm really wondering if the reliability of the Subaru Forester over a 10 years period should be a concern compared to the Toyota Rav4. What do you think?
That's what I wonder too. Some people saying "ya ya I've had it for years no problem." years.... Ive had my 99 CRV and its on its original alternator and Starter, no problems. Its only now starting to really wear down with worn down suspension, maybe time to fix it up, or time for a new car. Always done regular basic maintence. That's what I call long term, 20 years, not 5. That's just warranty years. If it doesn't last twice as long as the warranty, then to me it doesn't last.
I wish more car manufacturers would focus on cab forward designs with shallow ( not straight) dash designs with true anti glare and scratch resistant windshields.
I love my 2020 TRD, I lifted it 2in and put bigger all terrain Wild peaks on it after 2 years of driving it all over the west and Midwest. The price wasn’t cheap but I enjoy it whether I’m going to the grocery store or off roading in UTAH and NEW MEXICO. Plus the design and all out looks is better. It’s almost all paid off and I’m going be upgrading stuff once it is.
@@theeconomist100 Yep! Looks sick as fuck. Super fun to drive and still does great on my basic day to day needs. Probably the best looking SUV in the game for the price and all the cool features.
@@theeconomist100you’ll be surprise how common people lift crossover vehicles. People lifts outback’s, forester, crosstrek, rav4, jeep trialhawks, etc all the time.
Its understated, but one huge benefit of the Wilderness model is the additional transmission cooling. Wish I could get a Crosstrek with it. Adding an aftermarket cooler likely voids my warranty.
I hydrolocked a 2002 Outback when it was relatively new, pre-cell phone era. Using a Swiss Army knife disassembled the intake, and used rolled up paper towels to wick out the water. Hitched ride to a payphone called a friend pulled the plugs, cranked the motor to drain the cylinders of water. Sprayed lubricant in the cylinders. It started right up drove it home. Changed the fluids drove it a few more years sold it for more than I owed on it with no resulting problems.
Nice work, fellas! The film editing is top-notch. And sorry to say it, even though I'm a Toyota fan, the Subaru is the big winner in this competition. I hesitate to look at Subarus because of their history of high oil consumption, but maybe that's changed. Nevertheless, thanks for taking us along on your off-road test course. I didn't spill a drop of coffee while watching from my livingroom chair. 😉
I find Subarus to be impressive machines, too, but that CVT keeps me from buying one. They overheat way too easily and don't provide a great torque delivery. Throw in an 8 to 10 speed auto and I'm in.
‘I have no idea how deep this is’ always a fun way to start! A lot of the roads around here have been deactivated, so significant water bars. Anything with much less than a 30 degree approach and departure angle means you will leave a bumper behind at best, so cross overs not an option. That said, where you can take these is quite impressive! Wish Toyota would follow a few of Subarus leads and add a bit more ground clearance! Always fun videos!
I’m the opposite of the previous poster. I’m a Subaru fanboy. But I will admit in this video, especially on the stump obstacles portion, it seemed to me that the Rav got traction quicker and with less wheel spin than the Suby. I’m assuming that might be due to torque vectoring instead of the brake vectoring setup on the Suby. That being said, the Subaru takes it hands down on the forest road run, which is expected due to its heritage. Also, I guarantee that if there was and sustained high rev high wheel spin scenario, the Toy would overheat and the Suby would just keep on truckin. Overall the Subaru is more capable and a way better value than the Toyota. Love your videos. The outdoor scenery and camera work, along with your range of videos from domestic monsters like the Bronco Raptor, to import low horsepower 4 bangers is awesome. Your videos are my happy place. Thanks for your work and keep it up!
I like the forester ground clearance, you can get a 2" lift for relatively cheap, little bigger tires gets you up past 12". I hate the CVT though. Not sure about the newer foresters but the rear dif has a breather on my 2015 that can allow water in. They sell extensions for it.
I noticed that the manual transmission Subarus used a viscus type fluid that when heated up by wheelspin would then shift to the other wheel, kind of like the X-mode just without all the electronic gadgetry. I always wondered why the Automatic or CVT equipped Subarus did not have this feature. It just seems like a simpler solution.
VCD locks torque split to 50:50 (front rear) in response to wheel slip. Active Torque Split is capable of transferring most of the torque to the wheels with grip, and can detect/respond to slip faster which should theoretically be better than the tried and true VCD.
I love both manufacturers. I love that he brought up the tires because that can make a world of difference. I was looking at the forester and rav4. I picked a 5th gen rav4.i still love the wilderness. I just want both SUVs lol . As far as ground Clarence, both have after market 2 inch level kits available 😀 I put 17 inch rims on with 245/65 tire Cooper ATs. It is so much more beefy. NO level yet. I have Clarence. It took the rav 1 inch higher with no rub. I plan to grab the 2 inch level kit. It will be a 3 inch total more height on my rav4. I never understood the TRD having more rim and less tire. I run more tire, less rim. Also something to note, my rav4 is the xle.not the TRD. Different AWD and different suspension. Its been comfortable for ruff roads and off road. I feel the TRD is set up best for on road streets. Not off road. Its backwards to me. The rims and suspension are not a off road design.
Duuude your officially my favourite car channel. You've done the most offroad videos on the forester than anyone else. Also these are the exact wo models I was debating between in my head.
Ryan, I think the air guitar should be kept as a regular part of the introduction, just imagine the time you can save in editing😉 The Forester will surely win most off road competitions. On the road, the RAV4 is the favorite to win the race to 200,000 miles. With the premium price Toyota charges for the TRD, it ought to have an upgraded powertrain.
The adventure trim rav4 is the same price as the forester, that one competes with the forester, not the TRD. You are still getting way more features in the TRD and in 2023 they have 360 camera option. Just way more options overall with the rav4.
Although I do think the wilderness is a better value, the Rav 4 went up the tree root obstacle easier with better traction. Although you said the RAV4 scraped. I did not see that or hear it in the video. Time will tell how the Subaru’s cvt transmission will hold up.
There's a great video out there pitching different 4 and AWD over set of hard obstacles, proving what we all know - Subaru AWD is the best. As a chicken cosplaying a hawk, I'd shit myself if "4WD not available", "factory service 4WD" lit up on my vehicle. Your video is even better, and not just because Subaru wins again, but because it also presents real-life challenges of navigating forest roads. Visibility (aided by camera) is 99% of decision-making and difference between needing or not needing a new tyre and/or paint job. And here you went easy on RAV4 with drive-thru and spotting. Without spotting RAV4 would get banged up or, as it was pointed out in the video, you'd have to get out every 5 sec. Which is something you might not wanna do in Alligator River, with cottonmouth and rattlesnakes around. All and all great video.
The old Rav4, first gen had one of the best departure angles for offroading. I have friend that is farmer and they take it out in the mud while hunting. My 3rd Gen Rav4 is amazing in the snow, i was literally out with the truck when a massive snow fall made cars get stuck in Canada. The new model is amazing, and it can handle corners very well.
Would a base Rav4 with a slight lift and better tires be the better option? It would be cheaper than both of these and just as capable. But I could be wrong.
The new Rav4 is amazing, even if you get LE model, the Suspension is awesome, and AWD is very capable. Get a 2023 model, the changes they did over previous years is better. You will love this ride.
It won't be as capable. There are basic tests that prove the twin clutch AWD system in the TRD and Adventure model is much more effective (than the standard Rav4 AWD system). But, it's a better option for anyone looking to save money. Depending on the trails you do and the terrain you may not need any extra capability.
@@billricheter5678 no it doesnt, rear line disconnect AWD system. Subaru might be better by a bit, but the head of the Rav4 is head of the landcruiser, it will have it's limitations because it is not 4 runner, but they are taken to many countries in all sorts of conditions. The new system is incredible
Does the TRD OFF ROAD RAV 4 come with Bilstein or Fox shocks? At that price it should and should have a front camera. I will always take an automatic with gears ⚙️ over CVT.
"Have you ever been off-roading with pure hope" he says......lol. Shoot, that's all we did when I was a kid. Our 1986 K-5 Blazer was fully based on "hope". Y'all making me feel old with your fancy trail cams and spotters. How are you supposed to impress the hot girl in the passenger seat if you didn't go off-roading by "hope?" Old school off roaders would "record" data in their mind along the trail as they went and factor that into your lines and maneuvers. That's how we did it in the old days. Subaru for the win in my opinion. Great video guys.
Thank you for this comparison, I have owned a Subaru Forester Wilderness for a year and I like it for how it drives and how much you can see from behind the wheel.
Any idea how what your average MPG is? I'm looking at the Touring and Wilderness models. Would prefer the Wilderness if people are getting decent mileage in them.
I run a Suzuki Vitara 5 door 1997 model (1st generation, that is) I "inherited" from my dad and I'm on the lookout for what I can replace it with. I do loads of off-roading but of course there sure is a lightyear of differences between my vehicle and these two in terms of comforts, sophistication and everything. Yet I somehow think they made such a big deal of the obstacles they came through. My Vitara is RWD-based and I can switch it to 4x4 with a stick. Oh, and it has 4L (4-low) mode. No special software no nothing, just a car first put into circulation in 1988. Yet, I've been through obstacles just as bad and even worse and it was never a big deal about it. It just moves along through everything and I hardly ever need to bother putting it in 4x4 mode, let alone 4L... One thing is for sure: Toyota is supposed to be releasing a baby Land Cruiser next year, around 4.40m length and apparently very much off-road focused. That'll definitely be a thing to watch for...!
Love the focus on these soft off roaders--but Ryan, it MUST happen--Ford Maverick Tremor vs Wilderness Subarus. I feel like this matchup could be amazing and really inform future buyers :)
Crossover category Subaru always beats the RAV4 since the very beginning even though the 1st ever Crossover was created-built by Toyota-Lexus/RX300. Awesome video as always👌🏽👍🏽👏🏽💯
@@louisbabycos106 Subaru Leone Estate Van 4WD manufactured from 1972. Ground clearance is 210mm. This is the world's first crossover SUV. Developed to break through deep snowy roads in the mountains
I tried to do the same Tahuya loop in my stock 2014 forster with all season tires. I turned back only half a mile in or so. Decided it was too risky. Now I have a skid plate and all terrains. Maybe I'll try it again one day to see how it goes. I was just really scared my tire was going to pop
Forester Wilderness has 23.5-degree approach angle, 25.4-degree departure angle and 21.0-degree breakover. The RAV4 TRD has a disappointingly long and low nose with a rated 19-degree approach angle and a 21-degree departure angle. Could not info on Ravs breakover angle which is probably not a good thing. These angles make all the difference when out on forest service roads or off-roading!! Loved the split screen in this video! Awesome comparison!!
Could a Kia Telluride XPro handle that same trail? I enjoy your channel and there aren’t a lot of people actually showing the capabilities of modern cars and trucks! I loved the Bronco snow run up the hill! One thing with turbo Subarus the turbos only last 125k miles then you have a minimum bill of $2k to $3k! They really need to design the bearings and shaft support to last 250k just to up their reliability rating.
The 3.8 V6 in those Kia/Hyundai’s are full of plastic and lack hydraulic lifters so you get to hear your valves chatter in cold climates. Oil filter housing is plastic too. There’s more ancient Subie’s and Toyota’s running around than Kia’s and Hyundai’s. They look nice on the exterior and interior but quality is nowhere near where it should be.
I think “trd” means the springs are stiffer so it sags less and gives you more ground clearance. Which is the same recipe for the “sport” edition so it can clear bigger wheels and low profile tires. That’s why people who buy these put smaller rims and thicker tires so the ride doesn’t beat you up.
The 2023 Subaru Ascent has wheel cams. I can see both my right and left wheels, super useful when going offroad so far. Really wish you could get your hands on a 2023 Subaru Ascent and make a video on it! Also thanks for the info on the offroad park. I just added it to the list of weekend destinations. It's just over an hour from my house.
It may just be a superstition, but I'm still so nervous about the cvt vs the conventional automatic. If either one had an available manual, it'd be no contest.
The CVT transmission isn't really new technology for Subaru they've been developing their own CVT transmissions since about the late 70s. So Subaru CVTs are fairly Bullet proof. I would say the only CVTs you have to worry about are Nissan's, Nissan seems to have glass transmissions when it comes to their CVTs
@@benmorris7276 not bullet proof, trash overall. I had a Subaru Outback and babied it, but CVT issues, head gasket, ball bearing issues...Subaru`s are notorious for all those issues. I loved my Outback, but unfortunately not reliable. Honda makes the best belt CVT, they have mastered them, with that said belt cvt`'s are not good overall. Anyone who cares about keeping a car for a long period of time, look for a stick, a standard, or ecvt....skip trash belt cvts. The ONLY reason Subaru makes CVTs...is to save themselves money. Subaru does not care about you, or what you think.
Ahh what is this ? These can be done by any car , There is no need of AWD just a car .. Expected really something you did with the compass trail hawk .. and the guy talking about hydro lock 😮 cmn mahn that water is not even touching the rims 😢
I found rocks and dirty mode with sports mode select plus the shifter in manual mode in first gear helped me to get out and over and trough some tough spots around the fields farm
Hi Ryan! Thanks for this video. Precise question to you about the Wilderness: do you feel it has enough passing power to be safe? I ask this question because when I had a test drive last year with a regular 7 fake speeds CVT, I found it a tad sluggish and since I live in the country with a ton of secondary highways (speed limit 90 km/h), I need a rig that has the ability to quickly pass dangerously slow drivers. I can’t have a test drive at my local dealers because there’s no Wilderness Foresters available. So that’s why I’m wondering if the 8 fake speeds CVT does the trick. Thanks!
While it isn't the fastest, in my opinion it still has plenty of passing power, and as losercomposer said, there is a S# (basically like a sport mode) that gives you a more responsive throttle and a bit more power!
A CVT is just going to be a bit different feel than gears. I have no issues passing and I have plenty of power. You can feel how to stay on top of your transmission and it’s a minor adjustment in touch. In the end you have a SPORT MODE! Look for the little # on the steering wheel that you paid extra for and let her rip! Plenty of power with a tuned down final drive and a short wheel base. Love my Fozzy W.
I have 2021 Forester Sport and tested in Canada deadly winter slush and able to went thru without a sweat. If Wilderness released in 2021 absolutely that's my car!
Toyota reliability is what you're paying for, and that's why it's more expensive. I'm also not a big fan of the cheap CVT. RAV4 looks way nicer on the inside and the outside as well. One factor that puts Toyota on the upper hand is that these cars keep their value. So when you sell, you won't lose money as much. That's always something to consider when I buy a new car. However if I want offroad capable car that can handle beating, I'd go for a truck.
Reliability of NA Subaru is one of biggest in history not worse than Toyota. Toyota is boring as always, for granny. But it's good that they share technical support to their cars. Mazda is also in cooperation with Toyota
I had to get aftermarket plates for my Wilderness as Subaru doesn't know when the Russian-made OEM skid plates will be available again. The good news is the after-market ones are a lot beefier also the full plates seemed to help my MPG too. I was told that the 9.2" ground clearance was simply due to that being the maximum height limitation at the Japanese factory. Whereas the Indiana factory can accommodate larger vehicles.
Can see where a revised final drive in the other trims of the Forester would be helpful in the performance of the vehicle but you would be compromising the fuel economy. All in all think Subaru is doing a good job in their efforts with the Forester with one the exception of the front facing camera. Cameras today are a dime a dozen they could put a front facing camera in all their SUVs without too much cost and improve their product that much more. Enjoyed the video keep up the good work.
Great video! In the end, it just makes me want a Wilderness version of the Crosstrek even more. I just like the look of the smaller car more than the Forester. I am surprised to find that the Forester actually has better approach (23.5 to 18.0) and breakover (21.0 to 19.7) angles than the Crosstrek, which not surprisingly has a better departure angle (29.0 to 25.4). No wonder this is such a good little machine! Maybe I'll have to rethink it once they finally update the tech, most likely for 2024?
Respectfully, meh. 😉😆 Don't know if you've already had a Forester, but before the new universal chassis, the Impreza/Crosstrek and Forester were built off of the same chassis. Meaning, they drove and handled pretty similarly. I've definitely looked at the Crosstrek, but there is so much more utility (Iike cargo space) in the Forester that, aside from price, I don't know if I would opt for the Crosstrek as a primary vehicle. Maybe as a secondary vehicle or definitely for a kid driving in Minnesota winters, but if they still drive alike with the new chassis, I'd be leaning toward the Forester. For my part, I *really* like the boxiness (and hence the visibility) of the Forester. I know the newer vehicles are getting all of these safety features built in, but the first time I sat in a Forester, in comparison to the usual competitors, I thought, "Wow, I can actually see what's going on around me."
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I’m a Toyota fanboy, admittedly. Reliability of Toyota vs Subaru long term leans heavily towards Toyota. However, 40k dollars is crackpipe-action for the RAV4. The Subaru is 100% the better buy for most folks. I am a true Toyota fan and will remain loyal, but the Subaru is an incredible value.
Not to mention it’s just a cooler vehicle and a grown man has head room in the Subaru unlike the Toyota
The Subaru's overheat with minimal throttle adjustment off road. And wimpy CVT. No thanks haha. It's a woman's car. If I can't take my 4x4 truck, then I would take that yoda for sure.
@@Jay-bw3fl gotta say yes way more headroom. I have a 2017 Tacoma and i hit my head regularly or my hat brushes against the sun visor. Gfs cross trek has plenty of leg room, better seating position and more head room. Even the tundra doesn’t come close to other brands
@@TonkaFire2019 Yep. I love Toyota but every model is severely lacking in headroom for people with long torsos like myself. I’m only 5’10” but I have to lean the seat back to fit in the rav4 with the seat all the way down. Headroom is the main reason I never bought a Tacoma. Always wanted one.
@@TheMeanmarine13I haven’t seen a single video of a Subaru overheating. Also enough with the CVT not all of them are bad just the Jatco’s in Honda, Mitsubishi, and Nissan. No one likes a bug that says things in opposition just for the sake of saying things in opposition.
I really liked the split screen views comparing the vehicles as they tackled the same obstacle! Keep up the great work!
Yea
I sold my 97 Toyota 4Runner last year, which I bought new. I've also owned 2 Rav4s. My last one was a 2012 model. I loved them all and never thought I would own anything other than a Toyota. Obviously a bit of off road capability is important to me.
I was in the market last year for a new car. These were the exact 2 cars that my search boiled down to. I chose the Subaru for all the reasons that you mentioned.
But there were things that were such a huge difference like: Visibility in the Subaru was infinitely better. The Subaru came with skid plates. To me, the interior was vastly superior in the Subaru - the screen in the Toyota looks like someone taped on an iPad. The tires on both are light A/Ts but the Geolanders are 3 peak rated. The back seat in the RAV4 felt claustrophobic - probably because the windows are so small. It was also easier to access the back seat in the Subaru - I have a kid now.
I live in Canada and the price differential was almost $10,000. But, even if price was not a consideration, I would still rather have the Forester Wilderness.
I bought the Subaru (I can't believe it still). I love it.
“Taped on an iPad!”😂
Fully understand
I was a Toyota driver for a long time and really don't have any complaints about them whatsoever. The Toyotas I drove were quite simply, bulletproof. My reason for going with the Subaru had a lot to do with the interior space. The RAV has always just felt a little too cramped for me, whereas with the Subaru, you can push the driver seat all the way back, and even at 6'3, I can jump in the rear seat behind the driver seat and still have great leg room. Subaru just does a great job with interior space. As far as the interior attributes, does Toyota come off as a little more "stylish"? Maybe. But I appreciate the functionality and the simplicity of the Subaru. And how they really haven't changed their interior all that much. Maybe it's because they know Subaru drivers don't need stylish. They provide what their drivers want. I love my Forester, and it just might be my favorite vehicle of all time. Great review, by the way.
I don't like RAVs myself. I always thought a woman's SUV although I saw a TRD pro RAV4 that shocked me, it's getting better
@@g.a.duncan3608wtf is a woman's suv? Why are you assigning genders to cars lmao
@@g.a.duncan3608
Maybe for American standards it is a woman's SUV. In Europe however it's seen as a capable SUV, 1650 kg trailer for a hybrid. Awd that is capable to drive in wet slick grass . No complaints. Good At tyre and it suits my needs. Plus the 10 year guarantee with road side assistance made us pull the trigger on a 4.5 year AWD hybrid. Mpg that most small hatchbacks can't compete with
Best practical offroad testing on the internet. As a PNW native your testing represents what I am really looking at to drive in.
I couldn't have said it better. All of that.
Roller testing would really give it best fair comparison... on rollers the Subaru definitely wins with X mode, it gets pulled out of three rollers while the RAV4 does not, if the RAV4 would have A-Trac, it might would be a whole different result, because the Subaru did a lot of spins in X mode to get out of three Corner rollers
Thank you for watching! This video was brought to you by Subaru.
@@glow4417's reply brought to you by TFL
If this is the kind of stuff you plan to do often there's no way in hell I'd be buying either of these. How many of these trips you think the same vehicle can do before it rips off a bumper, smashes the oil pan, shreds a tire or cooks it's transmission? They're doing this test 1 time, with brand new vehicles. Do it often and I'd be amazed if you made it 3+ months without getting towed home
Loved hearing you finally admit the Forester W is a capable off road vehicle without the turbo. It drove me nuts that people who test drive vehicles for free slagged this off for no turbo and no heated steering wheel (yup). I spent less up front to buy this car and I’ll spend less on upkeep with better fuel economy. Great video and I’m glad this underrated and misunderstood gem of a car is finally getting the recognition it deserves.
The problem is the the Forester is too expensive without the turbo and it will have issues at high altitude. The turbo on the OBW make its a completely different driving experience at slow or high speed. I come from a 2020 Forester to an OBW and the Outback is much smoother and confortable to drive by a mile.
Either way with turbo or no turbo both will fail. Subaru has had major problems with their turbo engines, some of the worst in the industry. A lot of people don't understand how boxer engines are inherently worse than a regular displacement. Horizontal pistons wear faster based on gravity, it's common sense. More friction when a piston is traveling side to side is a big reason they eventually fail and poor gasket design is typical of Subaru`s.
@@glow4417 That's happens from time to time, but it is not the norm if you drive the vehicle how it should be driven. People with issues with turbo are racing their car day after day, so it is no surprised here that gaskets, piston, oil, etc starts to break down faster. I have had 3 turbo Suby since 2000s and none ever had any issues. Of course, I took great care of them and didn't go to the corner shop to do its maintenant either. That's the other reason why a car has issues today sooner then they should: corner shops. Those cars aren't GMs, Fords or Dodge and they required knowledge that aren't comparable sometimes with NA cars.
@@Traumatreecan still last a long time, but it's not the norm for them to last longer than a vertical cylinder. Because it's basic physics. No amount of oil is going to help your engine last longer, when metal is being pushed down to touch metal. Subaru's just doesn't care to design their cars to last along time. They're not designed that way. If they were they would abandon the boxer engine and the CVT and go with something more reliable with much better durability... but they don't care. Subaru markets their cars as staying on the road longer than other car manufacturers, but in reality that's just because people spend more money to keep them on the road.
Subaru owners are basically loyal to a fault and love their cars and Subaru massively benefts from that. I've talked to many mechanics who have told me, "no customer spends more on fixing their vehicles than Subaru owners". And I've talked mechanics who have said, "I've never had to take apart a 4runner or rav4 motor in over 30 years in the industry". The engineering between Subaru and Toyota is not even close. Toyota 8 speed traditional automatic and eCVT are basically bullet proof. Toyota's eCVT is used in taxis around the world, and routinely goes 300k miles without failure. It's a shame Subaru does a lot of good things with their vehicles, but they do need to improve their reliability and durability across the board - especially if they want to pretend to be as reliable as a Toyota.
@@glow4417 Well, I've seen a lot of Hondas, Toyotas or any other car manufacturer's engine opened in every dealer I ever went to do maintenance on my cars. Toyotas are good, but same goes for most other brands since the last 2 decades when you do proper car of your vehicle. 75% of the people don't know how to drive and what attention you need to give to your vehicle in order for them to last.
Subaru boxer engine and their CVT are able to do 40+ MPG (Forester 2020 I owned was able to that easily) with permenent AWD all the time. Try that with any other brand (Toyota, not really) then come again.
People will look back in 5-10+ years and realize the Forester Wilderness was the last of the great SUVs. Naturally aspirated, physical buttons, switches, and knobs, smaller diameter wheels, rugged straight from the factory, improved gearing and crawl ratio, better clearance, better departure/approach. The absolute best in its class and best value for the money for any SUV.
CVT 👎🏻
I have driven Toyotas all of my life but bought a Forester in 2018 (for my wife to drive around town) over a Rav4 bc it was cheaper, came with AWD standard, best rated safety, the loan had 0% apr, and the fact that she thought it looked better.
Unfortunately, 2 of the control arms broke within 2 years of regular city and highway driving (7,500 miles per year), and the MPG was nowhere close to the advertised 26 city/33 highway/ 29 average (22 MPG average was what she was getting). So, I traded it in for the Rav4 Prime and am very happy with the purchase. Sorry Subaru, but, Toyotas are just so much more reliable. And the price for peace of mind is worth the extra cost, not to mention the pure joy I have when seeing how spot on it is to its advertised MPG Stats.
Having driven a quite a few of these type of vehicles since I'm in the market for one, I've settled on the Forester Wilderness in the Autumn Green and upgraded stereo/nav option. 😁
I have this combo. It's a great vehicle
Yes that's the one I can only dream of 👍☺️
I went with the same package. O love it. I'll get back later withe my opinion considering I have 116 miles on right now.
As a current Forester Wilderness owner, I admit the RAV4 looks pretty sweet. However, I can’t justify the price different. BONUS: I was able to qualify for a supplier discount with Subaru and saved an extra $2,300 😊.
Price difference is easily worth it when you factor in future repairs. A lot of people freak out over the cost of Toyota's, but know nothing about the superior engineering and parts used. Trust me, owned both brands and the Subaru will always end up costing more if you end keeping the car long-term.
I heard the same thing about Honda. Prior to buying a Subaru, I owned a 2019 Honda Civic Si. My plan was to keep it as my daily commuter. Turbo failed at 62k miles. After $8k in repairs, I’m giving Subaru a shot. Toyota may be next, but so far I’m enjoying the Forester Wilderness.
Reliability
Both tiny junk
maybe if you got to drive the rav 4 as a regular road vehicle, yes. More torque, more things to tow. I have a rav 4 adventure and I would chose it over the forrester any day just because it has more HP and torque. you can slap a 1inch rise on the supnsion which would be the best and cheapest impactful upgrade too. the price tag is a bit much to swallow but combine it with toyota's reliablity factor, that is just enough for me to say yes to toyota.
What I like both about you guys is the engagement you have w the audience. Also, in your adventurers, you guys talk to us as friends and really connect. Amazing video! Definitely proud to be a subie owner
Great video! Just to add, the Wilderness rocks a full-size spare tire. Pretty nice for exploring forest roads.
Definitely thee reason why I went with a forester wilderness, same color because of showing how capable it is in these videos.. absolutely incredible and I feel complete freedom
It's a very capable color, for sure. Off-white would have struggled on those roots
How does a TRD Off Road package not have a basic item such as skid plates? Kinda makes TRD package seem a bit like a poser package instead of a trail ready one.
As a Wilderness Owner and long time Subaru Outback owner I think you (and almost everyone) share a common misunderstanding about X mode. It is not Regular, Dirt, Deep Snow, in order . Rather it is three seperate conditions with regular in the middle and for MOST secenarios, even difficult ones offroad, you want to be in Regular mode, i.e. not in dirt, not in deep snow. Regular mode is the best compromise between the extremes of no wheel spin vs maximum momentum with some wheel spin. Regular gives you a sort or middle of the road approach which is usually better 90% of the time for most situations. I get why people think it is Good, Better, Best. But that really isn't how it works. And Regular mode CAN and WILL outperform the other two modes in mixed conditions where you basically want the standard mode logic to make a judgement call based on fuzzy logic. They even started putting Regular mode in the MIDDLE of the other two modes in graphics and controls, to help people understand that Regular mode is a MIX of two extremes, and IS the best mode to be in 99% of the time Even offroad. I have had my Subaru in deep snow, dirt, deep soft sand, water, mud, etc, I am am fully prepared to air down or use an Xmode. But I've had it for almost a year now (Outback Wilderness), and honestly I have not felt the need. It does great offroad, and frankly better than the other two modes, when you just leave it alone. I certainly would not have needed any of those other Xmodes in that park, except maybe dirt going over those slipper stumps.. Looks like fun. Also I should state that I have bigger taller wider Falken WIldpeak Trail AT's on a slightly wider wheel, so that might go along with my not feeling the need for the Xmodes. Peoples needs may vary. p.s. The line you took him on was fine. You told him to keep that slight right angle, and he didn't believe you and turned left and fell off. A spotter is only as good as the ability of the driver to follow instructions, and this is WAY harder than people realize because the driver has all kinds of inputs that are frequently at odds with what a good spotter is seeing. Also, this is a video, and I may be totally wrong about this, because of the lens perspective. It looked like he drove off the side of the slippery log, but maybe he had to for another part of the line. Databyter
Good 👍
As a Forester Wilderness owner who obsessed over comparison research beforehand (thank you for your numerous video contributions to that research!), I’ve concluded that in the 35-45k price range, Forester Wilderness is my own ideal compromise between daily comfort and overlanding capability, Bronco Sport would probably be my next stop if giving up comfort for capability, and the RAV4 TRD (I seriously looked at a Tacoma, but concluded that it wasn’t the ideal fit for my life the 363 days per year that I’m not in deep woods) would probably be the stop in the opposite direction-giving up a little capability for comfort. I haven’t found that Honda’s offerings are capable enough, and Jeep isn’t as reliable as I’d like for the price.
I question the reliability of the Bronco, as well. I just don't have much confidence in Fords.
@@huntstyle fair point…with the Broncos and Bronco Sports being entire new product lines, there isn’t a whole lot of historical data about their long term reliability, regardless of the broader Ford family.
Hey uhm, I think we might be in the same mindset. I have to buy a car in the next week due to my car being totaled. Would you recommend buying
@@tayloranderson616 yep, I’ve had mine for 10 months, 18000 miles and a few dirt roads, albeit with few tests of serious capabilities, and it has performed wonderfully at every step.
Enjoyed watching this episode. Ryan and Nick has good on camera interaction. I love the video editing work of a “split screen” of the vehicles navigating through the same section of the trail. BUT … I would like to see the vehicles carry some cargo weight to simulate a more “real life” scenario. If I was taking the Subaru out for a day driving up the mountains, I would be carrying some gear in the back (recovery gear, food, water, etc.). Carrying cargo weight would better test those clearances on the vehicles.
I do want to see more Forrester stuff. I just bought this car in the wilderness and I love it and I haven’t had a chance to take it out myself, so I want to live vicariously through you!❤
Thank you for the thorough reviews. I was looking for a vehicle that would be more capable than a dedicated city car, offering strong value, reliability, AWD, and ability to drive down forest roads without worrying about it. In stock form. The Forester Wilderness checked most of the boxes for me and ultimately was a clear decision. As with most purchases most things do not check all boxes and purchase decisions involve trade offs. Your reviews and what they made me think about and consider in a vehicle were very helpful and important. For instance most test drives at a dealer, including Jeep Wrangler, take you on a freeway and done. That gives you no sense of comfort and ability when testing AWD/off-road vehicles. Bottom line, your reviews influenced my decision and I am a happy FW owner. Thank you!
Got the Subaru Forester Wilderness at the end of November and have been enjoying it. Got it for less than 40k fully loaded which for the money is a great bang for your buck. I’ve tested the off-road category myself and it’s very fun. Mpg is the only downside, I avg 22mpg and get a little over 300 miles per tank which isn’t too bad compared to other competitors which get less mpg or about the same. It’s a great suv/crossover
jeez, I almost get that mpg in my Tacoma. I would have expected high 20's, my gf's crosstrek will avg 27mpg at 80mph
@@user-ej1bq4bq2w I easily get low 30’s mpg in my OB XT cruising 75-80mph on highway
Ouch that's what i get in my jeep Cherokee trailhawk with the v6 and a 31 inch tires
Mpg seems a little low. Must be 90% city driving or perhaps the engine still breaking in? My 1999 Cherokee gets 22mpg, all highway.
The side by side video comparing both vehicles is awesome!
Forester starts @ $7,000 less money and comes with a front mounted trail cam, higher ground clearance and under armor protection. Is there really a question as to which one you should buy? lol
The intro Ryan sang nick was blown away at the high note also I find nick has a calming voice with Ryan they really balance out the channel really well love you guys soo much when nick is in a episode I am super happy
It was really nice to see you guys mention the price difference multiple times. A lot of videos that compare the wilderness with other off road capable cars, forget to mention how much more affordable the Suby is than most of the other options out there. Especially in todays crazy market.
Thanks Subaru for letting us all enjoy the Forester Wilderness long term with Ryan and Nick. That off road park looked like a ton fun and you and nick have great on screen chemistry. I hope to see more vehicles on those trails! (BS Badlands, Maverick Tremor, New Jeep Compass with the 2.0T) I'm surprised these off road trims arnt supplied water fording specs. Ford calls out the BS Badlands 23" pretty regularly in their info.
I really appreciate this channel. The types of tests you do are exactly what I want to know about the vehicles I drive. Keep it up
Have had my Forester Wilderness for a few months averaging 25.6 mpg, 27 on a recent long trip. My last Forester was 13 years old with 170,000. My hubs was a Subaru mechanic, he loves them. Loved my Hondas and Toyotas, drove all comps before buying this. The suspension is softer, great ride.
I watch your tests regularly :) I'm in Ukraine and I want to thank you for the wonderful and perfectly clear English! The difference is felt when I listened to Nick :) Your tests are the best
Slava Ukraine!
@@TrojanRabbit521 Geroyam SLAVA! Glory to heroes!
Be safe!
Just a quick additional comment…you guys handle the comment trolls with class, so just wanted to give you props for that. A lot of the comments, that I’ve seen anyway, revolve around how you guys “make a big deal out of small obstacles. “ I think most people understand that the reason you do it because these are test/press fleet vehicles and therefore you can’t treat them or drive them the same way might if they were your own vehicles as you have to turn them back in basically unharmed. As evidenced by your Bronco vs. 4Runner in Colorado video you have a different damage threshold for vehicles you own and are willing to take more risk. Anyway not trying to rush to your defense, you clearly don’t need it. Just wanted to give credit where credit is due.
Nice comparison. I do think though if you are planning on comparing the awd systems of each vehicle I think the comparison should be done with both vehicles having the same tires. Tire traction is almost as important as the actual awd system.
But not everyone is buying a brand new car and changing tyres. If the Rav or Forester can't do something, that's what I'll experience if I buy it too.
Any changes in the future I do to my car, is to make it better vehicle, but that's my choice.
From my understanding not all manufacturers allow the tester to change the tires. Also most folks will drive it with whatever tires come on the vehicle when they buy it.Or at least they will till the originals wear out.
I love that bam bam part in the begining. You mentioning it cracked me up! Please never change it lol. I can't wait to see more Forester Wilderness videos like you mentioned.
Any plans to test the RAV4 Hybrid Woodland? I think the RAV4 line really shines with the hybrid power train but curious to see how the “outdoorsy” trim fares
Thanks for actually picking a winner. Tired of watching comparison tests where they "just can't pick a winner". Well done on the side-by-side videos as well.
I really enjoyed this more technical video, specially with the split camera showing both cars, that was sick, please do more of that in future videos
I'd be really curious if you ever did a "retrospective", using a very old version of either of these vehicles to see if the technology has actually improved AT ALL over the many years. My guess is "Not by much" or even a big fat NO. Last year I picked up a 2009 Rav4 V6. I've yet to have a problem in deep snow, turning off traction control seems to be basically the same as "deep snow and mud", while normal driving seems to have plenty of traction shifting if needed. Plus, the V6 makes it a fun little stealth rocket :)
The lifeblood of these shows is really the year to year incremental changes, but it would be really beneficial to the wider community to see if any of them are worth it over a used vehicle.
Congratulations on the acquisition of a V6 RAV4. I have yet to meet the owner of one who talked about theirs without a smile on their face.
Yes that would be an excellent video. I believe you would find that Subaru with the add on off-road package would beat any similar vehicle of it's class over the same course.
I think with what you get for what you spend...Subaru hands down. But I did notice on that obstacle with the stumps and rocks that the Rav4 had less wheel spin. Price of the Rav4 is insane though.
"Price of the Rav4 is insane though."
That's what you pay for with better reliability and resale value with Toyota.
Actually it's the Subaru that's over-priced. You're looking at a car that will need massive repairs over a Toyota in it's lifetime. Subaru CVTs are cheap, they save Subaru a lot of money and allow them to keep the cost down. Heck, anytime you look at a Subaru with a CVT, you need to minus 5k to 6k off the real price... because it will last at least half as long as a traditional automatic or a Toyota eCVT and you will end up replacing it. Honestly, Subaru is easily one of the best cars to lease. Subaru's don't last long without extensive repairs, but have high residual value for good lease prices.
@@glow4417 Subaru cvt and Wilderness cvt are different gear ratio crawl ratio also have transmission cooler. I don't like cvt but Wilderness cvt way more reliable than regular subaru cvt. Subaru upgraded cvt just like Honda and Toyota. Early cvt have lots of problem for any jdm brand. Toyota and Honda offer almost every cvt model just like Subaru. Do you think better Honda and Toyata better cvt no there all same league but They don't put every model cvt. I wish Subaru some specific model better transmissions.
Agree about rav4 being better for having less wheel spin than the subaru. That only shows the Rock mode is Working properly to minimise wheel spin.
but the subaru has a wimpy cvt and is marginally underpowered, it is also ugly af and a granny car. i’ll take that Rav4 without a doubt.
Totally agree over all your comments but at the end of the day I'm really wondering if the reliability of the Subaru Forester over a 10 years period should be a concern compared to the Toyota Rav4. What do you think?
That's what I wonder too. Some people saying "ya ya I've had it for years no problem." years.... Ive had my 99 CRV and its on its original alternator and Starter, no problems. Its only now starting to really wear down with worn down suspension, maybe time to fix it up, or time for a new car. Always done regular basic maintence. That's what I call long term, 20 years, not 5. That's just warranty years. If it doesn't last twice as long as the warranty, then to me it doesn't last.
I wish more car manufacturers would focus on cab forward designs with shallow ( not straight) dash designs with true anti glare and scratch resistant windshields.
I love my 2020 TRD, I lifted it 2in and put bigger all terrain Wild peaks on it after 2 years of driving it all over the west and Midwest. The price wasn’t cheap but I enjoy it whether I’m going to the grocery store or off roading in UTAH and NEW MEXICO. Plus the design and all out looks is better. It’s almost all paid off and I’m going be upgrading stuff once it is.
YOU LIFTED a RAV4 lol
@@theeconomist100 Yep! Looks sick as fuck. Super fun to drive and still does great on my basic day to day needs. Probably the best looking SUV in the game for the price and all the cool features.
@@theeconomist100you’ll be surprise how common people lift crossover vehicles. People lifts outback’s, forester, crosstrek, rav4, jeep trialhawks, etc all the time.
One of the bast car review channels on RUclips. Thank you for the great work!
Its understated, but one huge benefit of the Wilderness model is the additional transmission cooling. Wish I could get a Crosstrek with it. Adding an aftermarket cooler likely voids my warranty.
My rav4 adventure came with a transmission cooler
I hydrolocked a 2002 Outback when it was relatively new, pre-cell phone era. Using a Swiss Army knife disassembled the intake, and used rolled up paper towels to wick out the water. Hitched ride to a payphone called a friend pulled the plugs, cranked the motor to drain the cylinders of water. Sprayed lubricant in the cylinders. It started right up drove it home. Changed the fluids drove it a few more years sold it for more than I owed on it with no resulting problems.
Nice work, fellas! The film editing is top-notch. And sorry to say it, even though I'm a Toyota fan, the Subaru is the big winner in this competition. I hesitate to look at Subarus because of their history of high oil consumption, but maybe that's changed. Nevertheless, thanks for taking us along on your off-road test course. I didn't spill a drop of coffee while watching from my livingroom chair. 😉
I find Subarus to be impressive machines, too, but that CVT keeps me from buying one. They overheat way too easily and don't provide a great torque delivery. Throw in an 8 to 10 speed auto and I'm in.
Just took my Forster wilderness through the Santiam Pass to sunriver. Awesome vehicle.
which car has brighter headlights?
‘I have no idea how deep this is’ always a fun way to start! A lot of the roads around here have been deactivated, so significant water bars. Anything with much less than a 30 degree approach and departure angle means you will leave a bumper behind at best, so cross overs not an option. That said, where you can take these is quite impressive! Wish Toyota would follow a few of Subarus leads and add a bit more ground clearance! Always fun videos!
I’m the opposite of the previous poster. I’m a Subaru fanboy. But I will admit in this video, especially on the stump obstacles portion, it seemed to me that the Rav got traction quicker and with less wheel spin than the Suby. I’m assuming that might be due to torque vectoring instead of the brake vectoring setup on the Suby. That being said, the Subaru takes it hands down on the forest road run, which is expected due to its heritage. Also, I guarantee that if there was and sustained high rev high wheel spin scenario, the Toy would overheat and the Suby would just keep on truckin. Overall the Subaru is more capable and a way better value than the Toyota. Love your videos. The outdoor scenery and camera work, along with your range of videos from domestic monsters like the Bronco Raptor, to import low horsepower 4 bangers is awesome. Your videos are my happy place. Thanks for your work and keep it up!
Cool video. Nice comparison. $8000 is a LOT of money and it seems hard to justify that Toyota premium.
Where is everyone getting the info that these two vehicles are $8000 apart in price? I'm not seeing that on Edmunds or the Subaru and Toyota websites.
I appreciate you putting the younger presenters with less back pain in the car with stiffer suspension. something to consider with low back pain!
I'd like to see a Forester Wilderness vs base Forester comparison. How much of a difference does the Wilderness package really make?
Quite a bit with the extra ground clearance and revised final drive ratio.
I like the forester ground clearance, you can get a 2" lift for relatively cheap, little bigger tires gets you up past 12". I hate the CVT though.
Not sure about the newer foresters but the rear dif has a breather on my 2015 that can allow water in. They sell extensions for it.
These wilderness videos are just so good
I noticed that the manual transmission Subarus used a viscus type fluid that when heated up by wheelspin would then shift to the other wheel, kind of like the X-mode just without all the electronic gadgetry. I always wondered why the Automatic or CVT equipped Subarus did not have this feature. It just seems like a simpler solution.
VCD locks torque split to 50:50 (front rear) in response to wheel slip. Active Torque Split is capable of transferring most of the torque to the wheels with grip, and can detect/respond to slip faster which should theoretically be better than the tried and true VCD.
Is it just me, or can any two wheel drive vehicle with enough clearance and AT tires handle those dirt roads??
I love both manufacturers. I love that he brought up the tires because that can make a world of difference. I was looking at the forester and rav4. I picked a 5th gen rav4.i still love the wilderness. I just want both SUVs lol . As far as ground Clarence, both have after market 2 inch level kits available 😀 I put 17 inch rims on with 245/65 tire Cooper ATs. It is so much more beefy. NO level yet. I have Clarence. It took the rav 1 inch higher with no rub. I plan to grab the 2 inch level kit. It will be a 3 inch total more height on my rav4. I never understood the TRD having more rim and less tire. I run more tire, less rim. Also something to note, my rav4 is the xle.not the TRD. Different AWD and different suspension. Its been comfortable for ruff roads and off road. I feel the TRD is set up best for on road streets. Not off road. Its backwards to me. The rims and suspension are not a off road design.
I just love how Ryan looks so happy doing these tests. All fun for him, enjoyable watching.
Loved this awesome video. Well done guys.
I have a TRD OFF ROAD 2020, I simply added a 2’’ lift kit and 265/60/18 k02’s and It’s a beast
Another fantastic comparison video! Always look forward to your thorough and yet exciting to watch comparisons.
Duuude your officially my favourite car channel. You've done the most offroad videos on the forester than anyone else. Also these are the exact wo models I was debating between in my head.
Ryan, I think the air guitar should be kept as a regular part of the introduction, just imagine the time you can save in editing😉 The Forester will surely win most off road competitions. On the road, the RAV4 is the favorite to win the race to 200,000 miles. With the premium price Toyota charges for the TRD, it ought to have an upgraded powertrain.
The adventure trim rav4 is the same price as the forester, that one competes with the forester, not the TRD. You are still getting way more features in the TRD and in 2023 they have 360 camera option. Just way more options overall with the rav4.
Looks aside, the Subaru Forester is a practical, safe, smart and better choice than any of it's competition in the same class.
@@glow4417 I would respectfully disagree, the adventure trim is mostly for looks and an excuse to justify another pricing level
Yes air guitar
Realistically how many people keep a car till 200k miles.
I kinda like the fact that you take care of the vehicles and not to damage them just for the show ot it. And you still show how capable they are.
Although I do think the wilderness is a better value, the Rav 4 went up the tree root obstacle easier with better traction. Although you said the RAV4 scraped. I did not see that or hear it in the video. Time will tell how the Subaru’s cvt transmission will hold up.
There's a great video out there pitching different 4 and AWD over set of hard obstacles, proving what we all know - Subaru AWD is the best. As a chicken cosplaying a hawk, I'd shit myself if "4WD not available", "factory service 4WD" lit up on my vehicle. Your video is even better, and not just because Subaru wins again, but because it also presents real-life challenges of navigating forest roads. Visibility (aided by camera) is 99% of decision-making and difference between needing or not needing a new tyre and/or paint job. And here you went easy on RAV4 with drive-thru and spotting. Without spotting RAV4 would get banged up or, as it was pointed out in the video, you'd have to get out every 5 sec. Which is something you might not wanna do in Alligator River, with cottonmouth and rattlesnakes around. All and all great video.
The old Rav4, first gen had one of the best departure angles for offroading. I have friend that is farmer and they take it out in the mud while hunting. My 3rd Gen Rav4 is amazing in the snow, i was literally out with the truck when a massive snow fall made cars get stuck in Canada. The new model is amazing, and it can handle corners very well.
Love all aspects of this channel
Would a base Rav4 with a slight lift and better tires be the better option? It would be cheaper than both of these and just as capable. But I could be wrong.
The new Rav4 is amazing, even if you get LE model, the Suspension is awesome, and AWD is very capable. Get a 2023 model, the changes they did over previous years is better. You will love this ride.
Try going for XLE if you want more features, LE are usually base model with less. Unless you like a base model
It won't be as capable. There are basic tests that prove the twin clutch AWD system in the TRD and Adventure model is much more effective (than the standard Rav4 AWD system). But, it's a better option for anyone looking to save money. Depending on the trails you do and the terrain you may not need any extra capability.
@@bjsimon802 rav4 has a bad awd system.
@@billricheter5678 no it doesnt, rear line disconnect AWD system. Subaru might be better by a bit, but the head of the Rav4 is head of the landcruiser, it will have it's limitations because it is not 4 runner, but they are taken to many countries in all sorts of conditions. The new system is incredible
Does the TRD OFF ROAD RAV 4 come with Bilstein or Fox shocks? At that price it should and should have a front camera. I will always take an automatic with gears ⚙️ over CVT.
Nick has great screen presence and gives great commentary/explanations. He also takes better lines through obstacles.
"Have you ever been off-roading with pure hope" he says......lol. Shoot, that's all we did when I was a kid. Our 1986 K-5 Blazer was fully based on "hope". Y'all making me feel old with your fancy trail cams and spotters. How are you supposed to impress the hot girl in the passenger seat if you didn't go off-roading by "hope?" Old school off roaders would "record" data in their mind along the trail as they went and factor that into your lines and maneuvers. That's how we did it in the old days. Subaru for the win in my opinion. Great video guys.
I am really enjoying this channel, genuinely. I hope you hit that million mark soon, but remain the same, or better. Keep it up!!!
i love all the wilderness content from you guys!
Thank you for this comparison, I have owned a Subaru Forester Wilderness for a year and I like it for how it drives and how much you can see from behind the wheel.
Any idea how what your average MPG is? I'm looking at the Touring and Wilderness models. Would prefer the Wilderness if people are getting decent mileage in them.
I run a Suzuki Vitara 5 door 1997 model (1st generation, that is) I "inherited" from my dad and I'm on the lookout for what I can replace it with. I do loads of off-roading but of course there sure is a lightyear of differences between my vehicle and these two in terms of comforts, sophistication and everything. Yet I somehow think they made such a big deal of the obstacles they came through. My Vitara is RWD-based and I can switch it to 4x4 with a stick. Oh, and it has 4L (4-low) mode. No special software no nothing, just a car first put into circulation in 1988. Yet, I've been through obstacles just as bad and even worse and it was never a big deal about it. It just moves along through everything and I hardly ever need to bother putting it in 4x4 mode, let alone 4L...
One thing is for sure: Toyota is supposed to be releasing a baby Land Cruiser next year, around 4.40m length and apparently very much off-road focused. That'll definitely be a thing to watch for...!
You bought me . I will get the forester
Watching this video makes me proud to be a Forester owner. These vehicles are reliable and ready for anything!
Love the focus on these soft off roaders--but Ryan, it MUST happen--Ford Maverick Tremor vs Wilderness Subarus. I feel like this matchup could be amazing and really inform future buyers :)
Crossover category Subaru always beats the RAV4 since the very beginning even though the 1st ever Crossover was created-built by Toyota-Lexus/RX300. Awesome video as always👌🏽👍🏽👏🏽💯
AMC Eagle SX4 enters the chat
@@louisbabycos106 Subaru Leone Estate Van 4WD manufactured from 1972. Ground clearance is 210mm.
This is the world's first crossover SUV.
Developed to break through deep snowy roads in the mountains
I tried to do the same Tahuya loop in my stock 2014 forster with all season tires. I turned back only half a mile in or so. Decided it was too risky. Now I have a skid plate and all terrains. Maybe I'll try it again one day to see how it goes. I was just really scared my tire was going to pop
Great video!
Was that the sound from the game ‘plague inc.’?
You could have picked up little more difficult track .. Even a front wheel drive with little bit of ground clearance could have cleared that track …
Forester Wilderness has 23.5-degree approach angle, 25.4-degree departure angle and 21.0-degree breakover. The RAV4 TRD has a disappointingly long and low nose with a rated 19-degree approach angle and a 21-degree departure angle. Could not info on Ravs breakover angle which is probably not a good thing. These angles make all the difference when out on forest service roads or off-roading!! Loved the split screen in this video! Awesome comparison!!
Could a Kia Telluride XPro handle that same trail? I enjoy your channel and there aren’t a lot of people actually showing the capabilities of modern cars and trucks! I loved the Bronco snow run up the hill! One thing with turbo Subarus the turbos only last 125k miles then you have a minimum bill of $2k to $3k! They really need to design the bearings and shaft support to last 250k just to up their reliability rating.
The 3.8 V6 in those Kia/Hyundai’s are full of plastic and lack hydraulic lifters so you get to hear your valves chatter in cold climates. Oil filter housing is plastic too. There’s more ancient Subie’s and Toyota’s running around than Kia’s and Hyundai’s. They look nice on the exterior and interior but quality is nowhere near where it should be.
A Hyundai can barely handle the road.
Kia??? Nope
@@layne4376 100%. Source: our 2014 Elantra boom at 60K, 2016 Sorento 2.0 turbo boom at 70K
I think “trd” means the springs are stiffer so it sags less and gives you more ground clearance. Which is the same recipe for the “sport” edition so it can clear bigger wheels and low profile tires. That’s why people who buy these put smaller rims and thicker tires so the ride doesn’t beat you up.
I wonder how the RAV4 Hybrid or the RAV4 Hybrid Woodland Edition would do on the same trail. 🤔
Hybrid model can't compete with Forester
The 2023 Subaru Ascent has wheel cams. I can see both my right and left wheels, super useful when going offroad so far. Really wish you could get your hands on a 2023 Subaru Ascent and make a video on it!
Also thanks for the info on the offroad park. I just added it to the list of weekend destinations. It's just over an hour from my house.
Yay can't wait to watch this, Ryan! Any chance of a Forester Wilderness vs. Mazda CX-50 off road showdown? 😉
I was also hoping for the CX-50 Meridian vs the Forester Wilderness 💯
Agreed!!
Someone gotta add the terrain AT4 for a wild card
We look forward to your nissan xtrail e4orce snow test and your comments on how the 4*4 system works.
It may just be a superstition, but I'm still so nervous about the cvt vs the conventional automatic. If either one had an available manual, it'd be no contest.
The CVT transmission isn't really new technology for Subaru they've been developing their own CVT transmissions since about the late 70s. So Subaru CVTs are fairly Bullet proof. I would say the only CVTs you have to worry about are Nissan's, Nissan seems to have glass transmissions when it comes to their CVTs
Does Subaru CVT have a first physical gear like Toyota one? Please!
The Toyota tax has become outrageous though. You could buy a ten year factory extended warranty for the Subaru and still come out thousands ahead.
@@alanmay7929 it does not. But the wilderness models have more aggressive cvt programming, allowing for better crawling. But it's all cvt.
@@benmorris7276 not bullet proof, trash overall. I had a Subaru Outback and babied it, but CVT issues, head gasket, ball bearing issues...Subaru`s are notorious for all those issues. I loved my Outback, but unfortunately not reliable. Honda makes the best belt CVT, they have mastered them, with that said belt cvt`'s are not good overall. Anyone who cares about keeping a car for a long period of time, look for a stick, a standard, or ecvt....skip trash belt cvts.
The ONLY reason Subaru makes CVTs...is to save themselves money. Subaru does not care about you, or what you think.
Keep up the great content! I'll take all the Forester videos I can get lol.
Ahh what is this ? These can be done by any car , There is no need of AWD just a car ..
Expected really something you did with the compass trail hawk ..
and the guy talking about hydro lock 😮 cmn mahn that water is not even touching the rims 😢
I found rocks and dirty mode with sports mode select plus the shifter in manual mode in first gear helped me to get out and over and trough some tough spots around the fields farm
Hi Ryan! Thanks for this video. Precise question to you about the Wilderness: do you feel it has enough passing power to be safe?
I ask this question because when I had a test drive last year with a regular 7 fake speeds CVT, I found it a tad sluggish and since I live in the country with a ton of secondary highways (speed limit 90 km/h), I need a rig that has the ability to quickly pass dangerously slow drivers.
I can’t have a test drive at my local dealers because there’s no Wilderness Foresters available. So that’s why I’m wondering if the 8 fake speeds CVT does the trick.
Thanks!
its fine for me on normal but there is a S# button if you need her to give you all the passing power.
While it isn't the fastest, in my opinion it still has plenty of passing power, and as losercomposer said, there is a S# (basically like a sport mode) that gives you a more responsive throttle and a bit more power!
A CVT is just going to be a bit different feel than gears. I have no issues passing and I have plenty of power. You can feel how to stay on top of your transmission and it’s a minor adjustment in touch.
In the end you have a SPORT MODE! Look for the little # on the steering wheel that you paid extra for and let her rip! Plenty of power with a tuned down final drive and a short wheel base. Love my Fozzy W.
I have 2021 Forester Sport and tested in Canada deadly winter slush and able to went thru without a sweat. If Wilderness released in 2021 absolutely that's my car!
Toyota reliability is what you're paying for, and that's why it's more expensive. I'm also not a big fan of the cheap CVT. RAV4 looks way nicer on the inside and the outside as well. One factor that puts Toyota on the upper hand is that these cars keep their value. So when you sell, you won't lose money as much. That's always something to consider when I buy a new car. However if I want offroad capable car that can handle beating, I'd go for a truck.
Reliability of NA Subaru is one of biggest in history not worse than Toyota.
Toyota is boring as always, for granny.
But it's good that they share technical support to their cars. Mazda is also in cooperation with Toyota
Great job, Nick!
I had to get aftermarket plates for my Wilderness as Subaru doesn't know when the Russian-made OEM skid plates will be available again. The good news is the after-market ones are a lot beefier also the full plates seemed to help my MPG too. I was told that the 9.2" ground clearance was simply due to that being the maximum height limitation at the Japanese factory. Whereas the Indiana factory can accommodate larger vehicles.
You had me at :18 with the air guitar!! 💯👏👏🤘🤘🎸🎸
Can see where a revised final drive in the other trims of the Forester would be helpful in the performance of the vehicle but you would be compromising the fuel economy. All in all think Subaru is doing a good job in their efforts with the Forester with one the exception of the front facing camera. Cameras today are a dime a dozen they could put a front facing camera in all their SUVs without too much cost and improve their product that much more. Enjoyed the video keep up the good work.
Fairly confident I could do this trail in my 1987 Toyota tercel I had been in high school. We took that thing everywhere in Washington State.
Great video! In the end, it just makes me want a Wilderness version of the Crosstrek even more. I just like the look of the smaller car more than the Forester. I am surprised to find that the Forester actually has better approach (23.5 to 18.0) and breakover (21.0 to 19.7) angles than the Crosstrek, which not surprisingly has a better departure angle (29.0 to 25.4). No wonder this is such a good little machine!
Maybe I'll have to rethink it once they finally update the tech, most likely for 2024?
Respectfully, meh. 😉😆 Don't know if you've already had a Forester, but before the new universal chassis, the Impreza/Crosstrek and Forester were built off of the same chassis. Meaning, they drove and handled pretty similarly. I've definitely looked at the Crosstrek, but there is so much more utility (Iike cargo space) in the Forester that, aside from price, I don't know if I would opt for the Crosstrek as a primary vehicle. Maybe as a secondary vehicle or definitely for a kid driving in Minnesota winters, but if they still drive alike with the new chassis, I'd be leaning toward the Forester. For my part, I *really* like the boxiness (and hence the visibility) of the Forester. I know the newer vehicles are getting all of these safety features built in, but the first time I sat in a Forester, in comparison to the usual competitors, I thought, "Wow, I can actually see what's going on around me."
Yeah while the Crosstrek is small. It looks like a baby Outback 😊. I want to read and compare the wheelbases, but I’d go Forester!!!