Hex_v_TGM
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- Having recently installed a hexbeam, from MW0JZE, I thought it would be a good idea to compare the hexbeam with my trusty TGM MQ36sr minibeam
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I have been using TGM antenna same model for almost 10 years and finally changed to SteppIR 3 elements, that is much better in both gain, F/B ratio, S/N etc, But TGM is very suitable for small QTH, but one main problem is that THM is having very narrow bandwidth operation.
Thank you for posting this very interesting comparison, John. In defense of the TGM, I had one up at my previous home and it worked very well. It's a great choice for those who want a decent signal with a low visual footprint. 73 from VE3TWM!
Thanks for taking the time and trouble to do this. I looked at the graphs and came to the same conclusion. I went with a Hexbeam from Waldi's shop and hope to have it by March-April.
Are they both aimed at the same station?
Really a nice video, showing clearly difference between the two antennas. Enjoy your Hex!
73!
Nick - LZ1ZM
Thanks for the video.
Ive read through some of the comments below and sheesh. some people take it personally.
I'd also be surpised though if there wasn't more to the installs which would produce such a variation in results
Not that any of us would do it but it would be great to swap them over and re run the tests.
I have a mosley 2 element and find it performs similar to the hex I used to have.
I wish I had both at the same time to do some proper tests. too many varients to be sure.
I do prefer the footprint of the new yagi though and as someone who tends to install my antennas solo, its much easier to handle than the hex.
Still, the hex has no traps etc and has a lot antenna in the air, so over a 2 element I wouldn't be shocked if it was up a little over a small 2 element beam.
cheers Brett VK2MRX
Great antenna and the reception is so much clear. Wish I could put one up at my QTH.
HPE TO CUAGN ON THE BANDS, 73 Emil
I'm confused. From what I saw the tgm was better on two bands and the same on a third. Anyhow, I have a tgm because I didn't think I'd be able to get a hex beam up as it is twice the width. I have since decided I can probably make a hex beam work. But, now that I've seen this video, I'll wait until I save for a steppir. I'm pretty convinced now that I won't really hear any difference if I go to all the trouble of changing over to the hex beam. When conditions start to improve I'm convinced I'll be happier with the tgm than the hex as the higher frequencies seem to be dominated by the tgm. I mean, didn't the tgm Excell on the higher frequencies. That's what I saw.
Also, regarding someone's comment about the hex transmitting better. Well, I wonder about this myself. The tiny amount I think I know about antennas tells me that your receive performance will mirror your transmit performance. I don't mind being wrong about this by the way.
At 12 seconds into the video I thought I was seeing a ground mounted Hex Beam! Hi Hi But seriously, great video and may have made up my mind what my next antenna will be!
Thanks Walter. I could cover the clothes dryer in tin foil and use it as a EME antenna!! I built the hex mounted on a workbench so it was about 1M off the ground. I connected a feeder to it and worked a UA0 on 20M CW so I knew then I had made the right decision. Go for it. 73 John
PS Thank you to the others for your nice comments on the video.
Hexbeam is a clear winner. Very nice video.
2 different factors do the HEX BEAM go farther than the TGM antenna , I know the HEX BESM receive better , can the HEX BEAM go father
You have made the best video I can find comparing a hexbeam to what I would describe as a "compromise" yagi beam antenna - one with traps or other inductors/capacitors to electrically shorten them. I have a Cushcraft MA5B, which is worse than your TGM by the look of the specs; and it would appear that a hexbeam is a much better solution than these compromise beam antennas. Thank you. I'll add a comment that's off topic: new amateurs should avoid vertical antennas if at all possible. Even compromise beam antennas, with some direction and gain, put verticals to shame.
Thank you for your kind comments. Re. the vertical antenna. I also have a Butternut HF6v with 36 x 10m radials and it works very well on 40m & 30m. Verticals without radials are a big compromise but if that is all you can put up then fine. 73 and good dxing with your hexbeam when you get it.
How does the transmit compare? The hex beam has I believe greater capture area for receive but I thinks it's more like a two element and may or may not be as stronger on transmit.
All I can say is that I have worked a great lot of DX lately. e.g. 9 slots with FT5ZM competing with huge pileups. It is performing much better than the TGM as good as that was for its size. Have fun, John
Welcome to the Hexbeam world I am also an owner and user of Ant's G3TXQ hexbeam.
Should try a Delta loop
Are you seriously suggesting that a Delta loop would outperform a hex beam or TGM mini beam?
Good comparison, I had similar results here in Montana 73 Alan
You need to rotate the TGM to searching the best direction for it, but I do not see any action on this video, so, this video is unfairly I think.
I have both of these 2 antennas, according to my experience that TGM is more better then Hexbeam a bit, especially in transmit.
In the end, honestest speaking that Hexbeam is outstanding also, because of compact size and the multi-bands, but my one was destroyed by typhoon 3 years ago.
Ting I Li I never found it was necessary to offset either antenna away from the optimum direction so both antennas were pointing in the same direction for each test. I'll bet you have better bandwidth on 20M with the Hex than the TGM! I could only use my TGM on the CW portion of the band. All of 20M with the Hex. :-)
@@johnfarrar5173 Reply you now and just 4 years past, hahaha.
You are right that the Hex bandwidth is better than the TGM. At the last year, I bought a Cushcraft A3S but till now on, It still lay on my home. Yes, the bandwidth and only 3 bands support are a little bit weak for the contact. At this moment, I cannot wait for someones finding me at a short-range of the bandwidth as even the A3S got a great performance. So, according to my past experience that my conclusion is as follows:
1. The Steppir antenna, it is no bandwidth issue and got a great performance. it is not easy been destroyed by the typhoon.
2. The Baby-loop, it is no bandwidth issue also and it is a small one as a suit for kind of the apartment. The only weakness is the shipping charge is too high. hahaha
Thanks for sharing John. GL GDX de 4Z5UY
This video is a perfect example of how misleading and biased A/B antenna tests can be when performed by fanboys of a particular antenna design .
All this video tells me is that there is an obvious problem with you're TGM 's installation. Regardless of the ostentatious hype surrounding the Hex beam it is by no stretch of the imagination a miracle antenna. In fact it is nothing more then a comprised multi band X-beam / Moxon hybrid. The only way for there to be this large a performance difference is if there is a problem with the TGM or you're dishonestly searching out signals which favor one antenna over the other.
For example I have both a TGM MQ-26 and a G3TXQ hex beam and performance wise they are virtually identical. Construction and durability wise the TGM wins hands down. The TGM is a much more robust and well built and can easily withstand weather extremes that would damage the hex.
When it comes to durability the hex leaves a lot to be desired and is best suited for those living in milder climates void of wind. My Hex is less than 2 years old and I've already had to replace three broken spreaders do to wind and ice.
On the other hand the TGM has been up for over 10 years without a single failure and 99 percent of the time their performance is virtually identical. This simply leads me to believe that there is a problem with the installation of your TGM or that you're purposely searching for that rare signal which favors the Hex over the TGM
I could easily make a dishonest video showing the TGM as being several S units stronger than My Hex by searching for signals which favor the TGM over the Hex. This in a nut shell is why have both antennas as sometimes signals favor one antenna over another and its nice to have a choice. On the other hand if I was forced to chose just one of them it would be the TGM simply because its much more durable.
Lets talk about our antenna installations and other things that could affect their performance. My antennas are mounted on separate masts and unlike your installation there are no surrounding items for them to couple with. Now the ground is not the same under each so the take off angles of these antennas is not identical and therefor there are times where certain signals favor one antenna over the other heck there are times where my low dipoles out perform both my TGM and Hex so guess that means the dipoles are better and I should chuck the others ..
Now I notice that both your antennas are mounted near your 2 story house which also appears to be stucco sided LOL !! . Last time I checked Stucco contains significant amounts of metal in the form of wire mesh. Now If all the metal in the near field wasn't bad enough I also noticed that the antennas are on opposite sides of all that metal with the hex having the distinct and unfair advantage of being several meters further away from the house.
This clearly indicates that while one antenna is pointing away from the stucco house the other is pointed right through the Stucco house. This begs the question why didn't you ever notice what should have been an SWR change while swinging the the TGM over all that steel mesh in those walls. In a nut shell I would say that mutual coupling and interaction pretty much invalidates any observations made with your test setup.
On the other hand I live on over 5 acres of property and my antennas are several 100 feet away from the house and several 100 feet apart which limits their interaction. As such my observations clearly contradict yours as I don't see much of a performance difference between these two element beams in fact their performance on my test range is nearly identical.
Dan Nelson I take exception to your comment that my comparison was biased and preformed by a 'fanboy'. I made no claims before or after the tests and left the viewer to make up their own mind as to the results.I did not search out signals that favoured the hex over the TGM. In fact, for the 20M test I used a 20M CW signal. That was because my TGM was tuned for the CW portion of the 20M band. You know only too well that the bandwidth on 20M is only about 50Khz so as I use mostly CW that is where I had tuned the TGM. If I had used the SSB portion of the band the TGM would have fared worse than it did. So no bias there!
My Hex has been up for 18 months and I have not had to do anything to it in that time. I built and erected the Hex myself in just over 1 hour. Truly 'plug and play' which is more than can be said for the TGM. It takes hours to get those spokes right and I found they corroded very quickly in the salty air we have here. I had to buy replacement spoke material as after two years they could not be altered.
You make an observation about the construction of the house. Having lived in it for 50 years I can tell you that there is no wire mesh in the walls so that side of your argument is flawed. You really should make sure of your facts before making such assumptions.
Obviously we shall agree to disagree so thank you for your comments but I cannot help feel they were completely misguided.73 John, G3UCQ
John Farrar Well John if you where actually trying to be impartial then I apologize. Unfortunately ham radio has become so cusumerized and the the Hex beam has been so over hyped that you would think it is some sort of miracle antenna.
I'm the one who's probably now being over critical of these ridiculous A/B tests as I have seen far to may of these hex beam comparisons where the person doing it obviously was an inexperienced highly biased proconsumer.
Ham radio is supposed to be based on science and engineering and not subjective observations and that in a nut shell is why these A/B tests are worthless. They can only indicate the perceived performance of your particular installation.
Case and point your own tests showed as much as 24+db of difference between these two antennas and the fact that accepted this results and did not question why leads me to question your qualification and your impartiality.
The bottom line is the math and science backed up by modeling does not support the 24+db difference seen in your A/B tests. The fact that this didn't clue you into a possible problem with either the antenna or installation or outside interaction distorting the pattern again forces me to question your understanding and knowledge of antennas and the science and engineering behind them.
These are the sorts of tests you see CB'ers perform, These are not the types of test you would expect the chief engineer of a licensed ham radio station to promote.
Once again assuming the standard 6db per S-unit, your test was showing upwards of 24+ db difference between two antennas who's performance should have been about equal, Once again a good engineer would have immediately concluded that there was a problem with either the antenna or installation that need to be resolved .
This in a nut shell is why antennas such as the hex reach almost legendary status. Contrary to ham folklore the hex is not a miracle antenna, Its nothing more than a X-beam/Moxon hybrid it is a compromised 2 element mufti band wire beam who's performance is slightly lower than a simple mono band Moxon by about a db or so in its primary lob. The main problem with the hex when compared to the moxon is distortion of the pattern especially on 20 and 15 meters. A mono band Moxon on 20 and 15 meters has a distinct elevation pattern advantage over a multi band hex. My personal testing has backed this up. I have a 20 meter moxon mounted at the same height as my Hex and it appears to have a much broader take off angle which captures signals arriving over a greater range of elevation angles
The TGM is no miracle antenna either it is a compromised 3 element Yagi/quad who's design dates all the way back to the 60's It has always performed as expected in well designed tests. The design has always been regarded by respected experts as a good performing compromise antenna.. Does it perform as well as a full sized trapped tribander of course not but then neither will the hex and claiming otherwise is foolish and simply demonstrates ignorance.
By the way your home appears to have a stucco exterior, Last time I checked Stucco is applied over a lath attached to the walls and is traditionally made of metal which looks like chicken wire just heaver.
Now there is a modern type of lath that's made from fiberglass but that's a recent innovation and to the best of my knowledge wasn't around 50 years ago. By the way I also noticed some fairly long rain gutter downspouts in the near field of the TGM are those made of plastic or metal.
Once again I apologize for rushing to the conclusion that your were being purposely biased, I should have considered the possibility that you were simply inexperienced. Anyhow ham radio is about education so keep up the good work.
Dan Nelson I can assure you that there is no metal in the walls of my house. End of story. The gutters and downpipes are all plastic.Why would I be purposely biased? I have no axe to grind at the TGM antenna. As I said in the video, I worked a lot of good DX with it. Its just easier with the Hex. I also never claimed the Hex works as well as a 3 element yagi. Where did you get that idea?I have had enough of your inane observations so I am ending this discussion here and now. Enjoy your TGM.
+Dan Nelson it's nice to hear that the TGM MQ-26 works so well as I have just bought one second hand, I hope i'm not disappointed.
slartybardfarst52 Lets just put it this way, I've earned 4 band DXCC, Digital, Phone, and CW on 40,20,15,10. I have WAS DIGITAL, CW and Phone on 10,12,17,15, 20, 30, 40, and 80m I took 1st place in my section and 4th in the state during the ARRL 10m contest not to mention have finished in the top 3 in my section in just about all the ARRL contest I've worked and that's competing against guys with stacked mono banders. I haven't even gone into my WPX numbers currently at 2500 which places me In CQ magazines WPX honor roll. Between the Hex and the TGM 20,000 contacts in the last 3 years on this antenna so I would say I have a bit of experience with it
Don't get me wrong I really like the hex but I'll be the first to admit that it's massively over hyped. It's not some sort of miracle antenna its nothing more than a light weight 2 element Moxon Hybrid and It has its drawbacks.
If you scrutinize the calls you will realize that the vast majority of glowing reviews come from hams who have never had any type of gain antenna, Most New Hex owners seem to fall into three groups either they had G5RV's, dipoles or multi band verticals previously and compared to those any gain antenna would seem like a miracle
here are my observations #1
The Hex is not very neighbor friendly, it's basically ugly as hell and just about as "In your face" as you can get. It's the only antenna I've ever owned where neighbors actually asked what the hell it was and how long I was planning on keeping it up. No one even notices the TGM.
#2The TGM is built like a tank it's designed to withstand Canadian arctic winters. The HEX on the other hand is a lightweight antenna and does not survive severe weather nearly as well. Since I've owned the HEX i've had to replace 4 spreaders and two sets of elements do to storm damage.
#4 Benefit of the HEX is it's very broadbanded, Unfortunately because of it's MOXON heritage it doesn't band stack well and their is considerable interaction between bands. Single band MOXONS will outperform both the HEX and the TGM
The Main drawback to the TGM is that its fairly narrow banded on 20m which means you need an antenna tuner at the band edges,
This is not a real issue as I always use an antenna tuner to attenuate harmonics.
As for setup, Personally I tune all the bands for lowest SWR right smack on the DX calling frequency which is where I'm going to need and want the most efficiency, Working Stateside really isn't a challenge so I don't mind tuning out a 2.1:1 SWR at the band edge's
The reports between the two don't really favor one over the other. Sometimes the HEX is better on certain paths and sometimes the TGM is better its basically a tossup. Oh and sometimes the 5 band vertical kicks both their butts. being able to switch between antennas to find the best one for that path is why I have so many HF antennas.
I don't think I would ever sell the TGM, It's just to simple, small and convenient. I even bought another TGM, this time the B26 to use on my motor home while parked. When traveling It stores on the roof in one piece. I also have a two piece collapsible 25 foot aluminum mast on the roof.
The whole antenna system takes less than 15 minutes for a single person to deploy. Between the TGM and my 600 watt solid state amp I have base station performance from my RV. Most RV's I meet along the way use screwdrivers type antennas. I use one while mobile also but when parked I use the TGM To say that they are stunned by the performance difference would be an understatement.