I added a 21mm on the rear which makes the steering neutral. I don't think there is a benefit of going stiffer or using urethane bushings on street cars. When they are too stiff you lose the benefit of independent suspension and you get wheel hop on bumpy roads.
Of course, everyone is going to have their own specific requirements. RCE actually tested out this setup on their car and found that it created a very balanced car. I'm looking forward to getting the car back out on the track to see how it feels.
@@caryg4638 No need to change the end links if you don't change the ride height and as long as the bolts aren't frozen (my car was only a couple of months old when I installed the new bar).
I think you may be mixing this process up for adjustable endlinks. The sway bar itself is going to rotate anyway so it doesn't really matter if it's loaded for this install.
@@KevinVo I'll admit, I'm not an expert but when I installed mine, one of the literature I read was to load the suspension while the sway bar is at rest. The way you did it, once you set it down, the load will cause the sway bar to rotate? Bend? Nonetheless it's good to hear other onions.
...you mean wagon. When are we getting the wagon wrx? The GT trim is the perfect stage to bring the wagon (Levorg) over to the US. Same engine/trans/chassis as the sedan so all of the heavy lifting is done. Although Subaru can put ALL of their (small) awd cars on the same 5-door platform as well. change engine, transmission, suspension as needed. Change bumpers, steering wheel and front seats as needed. Add a bigger hatch wing/spoiler on WRX cars. Boom 💥, a whole family of super practical cars from mild to wild sharing 80% of the build process, keeping costs low. Impreza, RS, Crosstrek (all trims), WRX. Might even be room for a WRX Wilderness 🤔🤔🤔
Looking absolutely brilliant mate! Just wondering but when will we be getting the part 2 of the Xforce exhaust video for the 86 ? Been looking at ordering one myself so would be good to see how it sounds on the road!
Is the front sway bar necessary for let’s say ocasional track days or is a rear sway bar enough for a daily/track car. I have a 2019 wrx for more info.
When it comes to aftermarket modifications for your car, necessary is a relative term as everyone has different needs. It's likely not necessary, but if installed it can make the car more enjoyable to drive with the increase in performance.
Every wrx I've had, I've only swapped rear for daily and auto-x. I used to need 50%+ stiffer, but on my 22 I only run about 35% stiffer in the rear and most of the stock understeer vanished. Might want to add stronger end links when going to a much stiffer bar, stock ones can snap. If you still feel the front pushing under high speed turns after a rear sway bar swap, just add camber bolts or plates to get 1-1.5 degrees of negative camber in the front, and you'll have a blast. Wrx usually has close to zero camber in front from the factory. Just don't forget to get an alignment after. For alignment slight toe in for front helps with turn-in, while close to zero in back helps snap it around better. But the car will have a butt wiggle when driving straight, which can be annoying or fun depending on what you like.
My VB rear OEM suspension is too soft and bouncy. I wonder if replacing the sway bars if it would help tighten up the rear without causing any kind of suspension performance problems.
sway bars are a 'fine tune' adjustment. they can fill in the gap of stiffeness only so far....and as Kevin said dial in/out oversteer/understeer given the conditions or your driving style. stiffer springs w/stock bars might be a better option....
I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure that sway bars reduce grip as they get stiffer. The feeling of less understeer is actually the rear end losing grip earlier. You won't go any faster but you'll feel like you have more control. Stiffer sway bars do make a typical stock car feel better, at least to me.
Sway bars increase the grip on the opposite axle. They don't decrease grip. The exception to this is if the sway bars are too stiff they can cause wheel hop on bumpy roads. I'm not a fan of overdoing the stiffness or using urethane bushings on street cars for this reason. On the track, with a smooth surface, you can benefit more from stiffer sway bars.
Thanks. Although I found this: Adjusting sway bars is a balancing act, increase stiffness to a sway bar on one end, reduces the side grip of that axle, while increasing the side grip on the other end. The net effect of sway bars on both on-road and off-road vehicles is almost the same.@@billsanter
It's not so much reducing grip. It's more redistributing the weight that's transferred during cornering. Grassroots has a great article explaining it here: grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/what-anti-roll-bar-and-how-does-it-work-handling-b/ Being able to fine tune the handling characteristics to your preference can certainly allow you to turn quicker laps at the track.
Thanks for heads up on that article. It's very well done. From watching some of my racer friends that added stiffer sway bars and loved it. Then thought that if a little stiffer was better then more would be even better. Didn't seem to work. Here is an important sentence from that article and why going too stiff is bad. "When a stiffer anti-roll bar is installed at one end of the car, that end will carry a greater percentage of the total load transferred during cornering. All else being equal, cornering power at the stiffened end will suffer"@@KevinVo
I thought the same thing, but then I test drove one. Ended up leaving with it. Almost a year later and I’ve put 20k miles on it. 15k more to go and then the real fun begins
![Eminem - Fuel (feat. JID) [Official Lyric Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/t5H_CewqpKA/mqdefault.jpg)
Sway bars were my first mod -- a big rear bar is an autocross necessity for these cars
Wheres the intermediate pipe video
Very nice explanation of the swaybar techy stuff Kevin! Also the shop is looking awesome!
If you don't want to drain any of the oil, hook up a shop vacuum to the oil fill.
This right here, just put a shop rag over the vacuum hose.
I added a 21mm on the rear which makes the steering neutral. I don't think there is a benefit of going stiffer or using urethane bushings on street cars. When they are too stiff you lose the benefit of independent suspension and you get wheel hop on bumpy roads.
Of course, everyone is going to have their own specific requirements. RCE actually tested out this setup on their car and found that it created a very balanced car. I'm looking forward to getting the car back out on the track to see how it feels.
Thanks for sharing this. Did you have to change the end links along with your 21mm bar?
@@caryg4638 No need to change the end links if you don't change the ride height and as long as the bolts aren't frozen (my car was only a couple of months old when I installed the new bar).
@@billsanter thanks! This helps a lot.
So just the rear alone is a substantial improvement for the street?
Never heard of adjustable sway bars. That's dope!
Glad I could show you something new!
One thing to consider if you're able is to load the the driver seat with your weight then tighten the sway bar while it's on the ground with a load.
I think you may be mixing this process up for adjustable endlinks. The sway bar itself is going to rotate anyway so it doesn't really matter if it's loaded for this install.
@@KevinVo I'll admit, I'm not an expert but when I installed mine, one of the literature I read was to load the suspension while the sway bar is at rest. The way you did it, once you set it down, the load will cause the sway bar to rotate? Bend? Nonetheless it's good to hear other onions.
Kevin is right. The Endlinks are installed with loaded car if the length is different than stock.
what about those sway bar support arms/braces? worth it?
When's the mod to convert the WRX to a hatchback coming out? Subaru?
I have no hope
...you mean wagon. When are we getting the wagon wrx? The GT trim is the perfect stage to bring the wagon (Levorg) over to the US. Same engine/trans/chassis as the sedan so all of the heavy lifting is done. Although Subaru can put ALL of their (small) awd cars on the same 5-door platform as well. change engine, transmission, suspension as needed. Change bumpers, steering wheel and front seats as needed. Add a bigger hatch wing/spoiler on WRX cars. Boom 💥, a whole family of super practical cars from mild to wild sharing 80% of the build process, keeping costs low. Impreza, RS, Crosstrek (all trims), WRX. Might even be room for a WRX Wilderness 🤔🤔🤔
Looking absolutely brilliant mate! Just wondering but when will we be getting the part 2 of the Xforce exhaust video for the 86 ? Been looking at ordering one myself so would be good to see how it sounds on the road!
I'm hoping to have it filmed soon. The wind has still not let up, but better weather is in the forecast!
... better wx now? 3 mo later?
When are you going to install Super street 2s on the WRX? 😉
😅 coilovers being installed soon!
Is the front sway bar necessary for let’s say ocasional track days or is a rear sway bar enough for a daily/track car. I have a 2019 wrx for more info.
When it comes to aftermarket modifications for your car, necessary is a relative term as everyone has different needs. It's likely not necessary, but if installed it can make the car more enjoyable to drive with the increase in performance.
Every wrx I've had, I've only swapped rear for daily and auto-x. I used to need 50%+ stiffer, but on my 22 I only run about 35% stiffer in the rear and most of the stock understeer vanished. Might want to add stronger end links when going to a much stiffer bar, stock ones can snap.
If you still feel the front pushing under high speed turns after a rear sway bar swap, just add camber bolts or plates to get 1-1.5 degrees of negative camber in the front, and you'll have a blast. Wrx usually has close to zero camber in front from the factory. Just don't forget to get an alignment after.
For alignment slight toe in for front helps with turn-in, while close to zero in back helps snap it around better. But the car will have a butt wiggle when driving straight, which can be annoying or fun depending on what you like.
The 21mm for the rear is all you really need for street use. If you go too stiff on a street car you get wheel hop on bumpy surfaces and lose grip.
Do you need an alignment after the install?
any update on the xforce exhaust part 2?
My VB rear OEM suspension is too soft and bouncy. I wonder if replacing the sway bars if it would help tighten up the rear without causing any kind of suspension performance problems.
sway bars are a 'fine tune' adjustment. they can fill in the gap of stiffeness only so far....and as Kevin said dial in/out oversteer/understeer given the conditions or your driving style. stiffer springs w/stock bars might be a better option....
Those red bushings are everything!
Also 50k!
WE DID IT!!!!
Could the front sway bar be slid out/in sideways if you had a wheel removed?
Nah, not enough room.
AYO 50K SUBS 🎉❤
I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure that sway bars reduce grip as they get stiffer. The feeling of less understeer is actually the rear end losing grip earlier. You won't go any faster but you'll feel like you have more control. Stiffer sway bars do make a typical stock car feel better, at least to me.
Sway bars increase the grip on the opposite axle. They don't decrease grip. The exception to this is if the sway bars are too stiff they can cause wheel hop on bumpy roads. I'm not a fan of overdoing the stiffness or using urethane bushings on street cars for this reason. On the track, with a smooth surface, you can benefit more from stiffer sway bars.
Thanks. Although I found this: Adjusting sway bars is a balancing act, increase stiffness to a sway bar on one end, reduces the side grip of that axle, while increasing the side grip on the other end. The net effect of sway bars on both on-road and off-road vehicles is almost the same.@@billsanter
It's not so much reducing grip. It's more redistributing the weight that's transferred during cornering. Grassroots has a great article explaining it here: grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/what-anti-roll-bar-and-how-does-it-work-handling-b/
Being able to fine tune the handling characteristics to your preference can certainly allow you to turn quicker laps at the track.
Thanks for heads up on that article. It's very well done. From watching some of my racer friends that added stiffer sway bars and loved it. Then thought that if a little stiffer was better then more would be even better. Didn't seem to work. Here is an important sentence from that article and why going too stiff is bad. "When a stiffer anti-roll bar is installed at one end of the car, that end will carry a greater percentage of the total load transferred during cornering. All else being equal, cornering power at the stiffened end will suffer"@@KevinVo
I dont care for the new WRX but watching your videos make me want to get one...
They make for a great all around car!
I thought the same thing, but then I test drove one. Ended up leaving with it. Almost a year later and I’ve put 20k miles on it. 15k more to go and then the real fun begins
another great video ! you make me wanna get a place like this and work on my car haha🤣
Oh man! Here we go again with swiping my credit card for my Subi 😅
I'm sorry!!!
lets get some bucket seats in that WRX!!!!!
found that the 22s use the similar occupancy sensors in the gr86 that you found. So I'm currently trying to figure that out haha
After spending the amount of money I did on the seats for the GR86 I might have to wait a bit hahaha
Day 420 of asking Kevin to rip a donut in the 86
Much less to explain if you use the English English word for them - anti roll bars 😊
First View,Comment,And Like 😮
Legend!