Altium - How to Copy Placement (without using rooms or channels)
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- Опубликовано: 6 авг 2024
- Simple way to copy placement between components or cloning / replicating placement of component blocks in PCB.
You can try it by yourself. Here is link to the Altium project:
github.com/FEDEVEL/youtube-pl...
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Thanks for sharing this method. Just one nice tip: To select all the designations at one time, just press ctrl and then select the area they are placed.
Great tip. Here's another: In the PCB list window, right click, 'Choose Columns' then move the ''Rotation' column beside the 'Layer', 'X1' and 'Y1' columns then they can be copy'n'pasted together.
The methods Altium suggested did not work, this helped a lot!!!
Thank you!
...this saved me some hours of placement
Thank you very MUCH! Knowing this method will simplify some changes I need to make with 5 or 6 blocks on my design! I've not use unions very MUCH, and I have not seen this table on PCB List! So much to learn! I have used channel, rooms, replication, but that won't help with the design I'm working on now. Thank you again for showing this method!
MR. Feranec, keep up the good work, thanks for sharing the knowledge, I've been a fan of yours for a couple years now.
It's good to know this method exist. The faster and easier way I have done it is to use room copy which will also copy the routes too.
Excellent tutorial. I need this much times, thank you very much Robert!
Wow. This is amazing. I had no idea that this kind of process exists. Thank you very much for sharing. Stay safe and keep surprising us with your amazing works. Good luck.
Today's the day i'm applying this technique. Thanks a lot Carl and Robert!
Thank you Robert, I just finished making 4-block Placement-copy with many components and this helped a lot and saved many hours to me :)
Thanks again for yet another great Altium technique and tip. I keep coming back for more.
Thank you so much for this video. I knew about management of position of components using xcel and PCB List, but it was for position of components and text. But this method is very useful. I've already had different blocks in the schematic, and planned to remake it using ROOMs, but this video saved the day. Thanks again.
What I find amazing is that Robert sits there calmly, facing us without a twitch in his face, telling us how easy it is... while in reality it is just a lousy hack because Altium lacks the proper tools to do this. :-) It was a very useful tutorial, though!
This technique can saves days on a large complex design. It's a simple way to duplicate exactly any placement or routing.
@@BlessingAll No, it is not a simple way, it is a useful but lousy way. The right way would be to define groups of components, e.g. by hierarchy or a blanket, and then tell the layout tool: make group B like group A, pick them up under the mouse cursor so thay you can rotate/move/place this whole group.
thanks for your video Robert Feranec. an other way is to just adjust the first group of components in a room, after that by using "copy room formats" adjust the other groups instead of copy in excel and paste it back, after creating groups by room, click on room brown box and delete it, then select the component and union them, do the same with rest... it takes maximum 2 minutes.
I'm having some trouble trying to create a room. Classes are not been created properly and every time that I try to "copy room formats", nothing appears in the list. I can only do it like he did. Already spent half day looking for Altium guide and RUclips tutorials.....
I was making templates before and placing them one by one. It is very helpful for me. Thank you so much
I've found very usefull your video! thanks for sharing!!!! I add an offset to X/Y coordinate in excel in order to positioned the second block. I have to copy a giant 7 segment display to another one and the A-B-dots segments to a third one, so I used your method just for some part of the routed parts. It's work great!
Robert, your video are always useful !
Very Much Helpfull.......... Robert Thanks for all the guidance
I didn't know, and it looks very useful for me. Thank you!
Wonderful technique! I will try it next time. Thank you.
Thank you very much!... Indeed you are a good teacher!
Always bring us surprise weekly!!
Great tip - this was new for me
So useful! Great teacher!
Very helpful tip. Thanks my friend for your sharing.
Thanks Carl & Robert - Productivity +99 points!
No didn't know about it.
I was still placing manually (new Altium user, for our school project), then after we had to redo the PCB the 3rd time, I've found your video. Really helpful 20 min instead of a couple of hours.
That is fantastic :) Thank you for leaving your feedback Frederik
U R MONSTER :-)
Best Regards Mr. Robert FERANEC
Huge time saving !
Thank you Robert, your videos are always helpful and very much appreciated. We could discuss whether Altium should have a better way to do this common task. But I like your video because (i) I learn about unions (ii) I learn about PCB list, and (iii) I learn a new trick to copy component attributes within the layout, such as component/designator locations and rotation in this example. Previously I have used copy format using rooms, but I think Altium is using some information from assembly layer '.Designator' to locate components for that purpose. If I adjust the location of '.Designator' on assembly layer for any component in a room (to make assembly diagram easier to read) then that component will no longer stay in sync when I copy format again later. So maybe your method is better. Thank you again!
I absolutely agree. I can say, that the main point of the video is not necessary placement ... but highlighting PCB List. How people use it, it is then up to them.
Thank a lot, Robert!
Very useful trick 👌 thanks Sir Robert
Thanks for the great tip Robert. While using Altium I really miss the powerful "place replicate create/place replicate apply" tool from Allegro that does all this including connecting tracks and regardless of designator order.
Thank you very much! It's very useful!
If I had known 2 months earlier...
Thanks, great idea!
It seems too much hassle for copying a few component but Imagine you have more than 50 components. It is a very helpful trick. Thank you Robert.
Selamlar abi :D
thanks for sharing this. it 's helpful
Thank you Robert! 💚
Very very usefull, thanks!!
Excellent!!! Thank You very much for share!
Thank you, really nice.
So many things to remember, first time but for me, that is expected.
Very helpfully tutorial
Thanks Robert!
Wonderful trick 👍
really good, thanks
Thanks a lot. very usful
its a nice one, i did not know bout this but can we do it from in between.
Cool stuff.
The only downside maybe if you would like to do some adjustments to individual components after this, u would need to un-group them again.
Very helpful, thnx!
Thank you Sergej
Felt it is excellent technique , Thank you for the tips, I faced some issue when i tried in multi-layer (Top-Bottom) , layers are not shifting
needed your suggestion on this!!!
I am facing the same problem. Did you find how to fix it?
You have to copy the top/bottom column in the PCB list menu if your parts are to end up on the same layers as the original placement.
just c&p in pcb, then sch update with match selection??
Dear Mr. Robert,
Thank you for your videos. I have generated rooms for components to make blocs on PCB Layout from the existing rooms "Slice and create classes". Then I had a synchronisation problem with schematics. Do you have a solution for this ?
Thank you
Hi Robert, how do you reverse the process? In case you want to modify a specific component.
placing them manually seems easier if you know snap to grid option or just use rooms then disable them
Thanks very much, btw, this method also work for multi file
Hi Robert, how you place components it in radial? I do not know how to appear circle board in your video, could you share the step. Thanks
Cool trick Robert...
However, do u think that annotating the schematic can have an adverse effect on this trick??
Thankyou.
I learned this from your Vedio
Great help with the design, however it fails sometimes when you are automatically annotating comp[onents in AD (don't know why) - the components in one sheet are not corresponded with another. Then I have to fix some of the components "manually".
Anyway - it is still supposed to be done by "repeat" and in rooms.
Hi Robert, how about tracks moving with the components? is that possible?
So this only works if the schematic is annotated carefully right? These blocks would need to be on the same page in line basically like yours so it captured the designaters in the right order?
Can you make a video with lenght matching in altium 19 please
Tried it on 32 blocks and did a great job ... but i was having issues in the pcb list sorting in 2 blocks where the components were just misplaced ..
I was so excited to see this but unless your reference designators are basically identically annotated between the blocks it fails. It gets close but there is still hand work to do. What you really need is to get access to the schematic X/Y co-ords and use those as the basis of the selection. I guess that needs a script though.
If the schematics have been copied and constructed with single purpose per sheet then when they are automatically annotated the order of the naming will match from page to page. Also works if one block is higher up on the page the subsequent blocks.
Git can be used directly from Altium itself, they have added support maybe 2 years ago for that. Have you used it so far?
Request you, please make video on lead array placement in round pcb and routing.
How you have added round raddar type shape here?
Very clever.
I can't help feeling that there must be a way using filters to select all the designators in a highlighted region of the PCB, instead of manually highlighting them all one at a time. I haven't quite worked out how to do this yet. (I think it might be necessary to unlock the graphical elements of the components first, and then lock them again after we have finished)
same here. I do not know why filters and rectangular selection doesn't work on reference designators. I will try the lock.
@Yongfang Zhang THANK YOU!!! I could not figure that out. I hope I will not forget next time to use CTRL+SHIFT :)
If you right click on the Union in the PCB panel, click "Select All In Union". Then in your PCB List panel, you can check mark the components and the text. So it would say at the top, "Edit selected objects include only Components, Texts". Then I think you can fix the component and designators at the same time, instead of having two different tables copied in Excel. And you don't have to click and select all the designators by hand.
Большое спасибо за субтитры!
thank you for this I had no idea about the technique, I would like to ask many people are using JLC pcb and there are times where there is some extra board space, is it possible to do a video on how to make use of the extra space for another pcb so it doesnt go to waste, for example use the extra pcb's maybe for pcb antenas or something like that..
Yaghiyah Brenner use more test points, apply logo, serial #s, or artwork. extra space is a good thing
Someone once told me, that you may need to double check terms and conditions of these cheap PCB manufacturers - if you add more "boards" into your design, they may charge you for additional PCB
Hi Robert great video as always. I started my first job two months ago as a PCB designer thanks to you. I have a topic, I would like to suggest. It is about splitting digital and analog power. I read a ton of articles on this, how is important to split it. And then on my new job, my boss tells me to just put it all together, and just to create space on a pcb between them(digital and analog components). Is it safe to connect analog and digital supply/ground on a chip that has clearly separated pins for each? Thank you in advance, sorry for my bad English. Have a nice day :)
There is no one answer for this. In most of my CPU boards I use one common GND plane and if there are some analogue areas, I am careful about component placement and layout (e.g. analogue components are placed in quite corner where other currents are not going to flow, all the analogue components are place only on TOP or only on BOTTOM side of the PCB, layout is done only on specific layers, etc ...). However if you are designing for example very sensitive circuits, your approach may be different .. maybe isolate the analogue areas as much as possible from the digital areas ... or have a look at reference designs or similar boards.
@@RobertFeranec Thank you for your time Robert. I will keep your advices in my mind. Have a nice day.
Does this work for polygons, regions, tracks and arcs as well? I keep having issues doing this because the tracks/arcs/etc have net names associated with them, and they don't get copied over ... have to manually rename every track/arc/region when new placement is done.
You can simply copy and paste standard objects. When you need to keep net names, use Edit -> Paste Special
Without completely watching the video I just clicked the like button by simply seeing the title
Hi Robert which lastest version are you using for altium.
I am using AD 19.0.15
Thanks, Robert for a very useful tutorial. is this feature available on Altium Designer 14?. This month I am going to buy Advance PCB Layout Course. is there any discount going on?
Thank you. I am not sure if it is in AD14. For sign up, you can use following discount coupon codes:
- if you would like to sign up for the "Online" option, use "HKM3AC" discount coupon code to save $30 USD
- if you would like to sign up for the "Online and Download" option, use "KFR7D2" discount coupon code to save $50 USD
PCB List works the same in version 14
I have placed and routed the first set of components. Can I use this method to copy the components, designators and copper trace connections too? In this video, you have shown the method to copy the components and designators.
you can simply copy and paste tracks and vias directly (just select them, ctrl+c and ctrl+v), possibly use Edit -> Paste Special and select what you need (e.g. Paste on current layer, Keep net name, ...)
I see that you relay on the designators numbering method (same order on every block), this will not work if the design ran thru a few annotations, what will you do in that case?
If you are stuck without the option to reannotate this method is not ideal.
Hi can you make videos on global editing in Altium
Nice.I like the blocks arrangement . The only thing I miss is how to align blocks with a given distance between the blocks. For example 200 mils between each block. The same goes for discrete components.
it should be possible to use spreadsheet (e.g. excel or goodle spreadsheet) to recaluculate positions with specific offset.
@@RobertFeranec Thanks
My method would be to use the move by X Y then move the first union by say y=100mm then move each one in a preplanned x - y distance to get your placement right, then move the first one back down by y = -100mm
Create Tip! Is it possible to copy and paste the traces the same way too?
You can copy & paste traces just by selecting them CTRL+C - > Click on Pick point and CTRL+V -> Click on past point. Nothing special about them. (In some cases you may need to use Edit -> Paste Special and "Paste on current layer" or "Keep net name")
Interesting technique but I was left wondering how you got the polar coordinates set up for the first block. Perhaps you have a video to which you could add the link above for the polar coordinates and the component placement on the first block.
I am using AD 20.0.12 and could not create union when I right clicked on the selected items. I went back to AD 18.1.9 and it worked.
Polar: I just added new polar grid (when you click into empty space in PCB, in properties, find grid and add new). Unions in AD20: I am not very surprised, there are many bugs in AD20 ... unless it is a new feature :)
You can reorder the columns so that you can do the copy-paste as a single block between Altium and Excel.
There is an option to do similar thing using rooms. I tried it a few times, but I find it annoying to enable rooms just for that. And there are some other drawbacks which I can't remember.
Sadly I find your option too complicated to remember, if I would only use it 4 times a year.
What I do is... copy the layout and paste it somewhere else, then use a function (tools\component placement\swap components) and just swap the correct parts to the new position.
Hi WR3, I have this problem regularly, unfortunately copy room format has not worked for me even when I create new rooms. I find Franec’s too complicated. Can you kindly explain with some detail how you use your swap component approach? It’s a shame that Altium has not implemented similar functionality like the copy room format. Thanks .
Thanks to Franec for the video too
Ok first I do the same thing as Robert has at 3min (schematic with all 4 blocks and a PCB with all components, and only one placed as we want. What I do next is copy block 1 in the PCB and place it where I want the block 2 to be. Then you have multiple options depending which one you prefer:
a) Select block 2 in the SCH so it select the right components in the big mess of others in PCB and bring them near the copy of block 1. Then select swap components function, click one component in block 2 and then click the correct component in the copy of block 1. Components will automatically change places and rotations and then you can continue changing them while function is running. When you are finished just delete all the copies. This option work nicely for simple circuits where you can judge from the connections where it should be placed.
b) A bit slower option but work better for complex circuits is to make a shortcut for this function. Same as before, make a copy of block 1 in PCB. Select a component in the block 1 in schematic so you can see which one should be in block 2 on PCB and remember the position. Select the right component from the block 2 in schematic, move to PCB and while holding shift select the component that you have remembered before. Now you have both components selected (the correct component and the copy with correct position), hit the shortcut and components will change places. Now repeat for all others.
c) This option is totally different but it is the fastest and sometimes the easiest. Make only one block in SCH and update the PCB. Place the components as you like and make a copy where you want block 2 to be in PCB. Make a copy of block 1 in the SCH and annotate it. Update PCB from schematics and window will pop up to make component pairs (if annotations are nice, you can just click arrow a few times and you are done). Than you repeat for block 3 and 4. I use this one a lot with linear LED strips. Where I finish 1 segment and go through this procedure and then I can do the same with 2 segments.
WR3 thank you very much. Very helpful
I can't enter a number with a decimal into the PCB lIst X or Y column? Whatever number I insert in X changes to 21.3, and in the Y column it defaults to zero whenever I add a number with a decimal point?
Maybe something with local units settings (?). Some software has problems if local settings are using different format e.g. if your local PC settings use "," (comma) instead of "." (dot). In that case, what usually helps is to change the local settings in Windows.
@@RobertFeranec Hi Robert thanks for the reply, I was running off an earlier AD19 build so I updated the the latest build and the problem went away. Thanks for all the help and videos
@@nathangates4032 awesome. thank you for letting us know
Nice technique, but seems like it’d be easier to make a sheet symbol for the “Block” and place 4 instances of that symbol in the schematic. In the PCB view, finish laying out the first Block (including traces, polygons, vias, silkscreen), and then Copy Room Formats x3.
I guess if someone is dead-set on avoiding rooms & channels, this is the way to do it.
In large complex designs you often have multiple rooms and channels and single pages so the room copy kind of breaks a bit. This is like one tool in the box, sometimes it's best sometimes it's not.
Thanks you. (Y)
I can't found union window, can you show help me? Many thanks.
Amazing trick, thanks a lot! But You do not need pronounce all the shortcuts and hotkeys. Please use on screen hints.
Seems a bit of a complicated method to to have certain design routed and placed in a similar fashion. I know you can include multiple copies of the same schematic sheet in your total design. When you change one of the schematics, all copies are changed also. I'm not very familiar with Altium, but I find it hard to believe this method can't be extended to the layout as well. Just an option to layout the copies of the schematic the same way should do the job.
it is useful but do we have any better way to do this task? it still need a lot of work to be done. Sorry for my lazy but as PCB designer I prefer save time on those as much as possible
Try to search for rooms and channels ... possibly also snippets. That could help.
@@RobertFeranec thanks a lot for your suggestion
Sir I want net list import video
Please add more videos related cadence allegro
My Cadence license expired and I do not really have many projects in Cadence what I could use in the videos :(
@@RobertFeranec ok sir i will remember all your tips. Thanks
Or just use Diptrace, it already groups these together from the schematic level... no magic or excel business.
Ctrl + V didn't work with me
Edit: Nope it worked thanks. My PC is just so slow.
Perfect
Altium needs to make this much more easier. I like Altium a lot but c'mon, this is waaay too convoluted for something as basic as placement copy.
It needs something like Design Reuse in PADS that can instantly copy a Reuse block with placement, routing, coppers and ref.des. and without the need of any special definition of the Reuse blocks in the schematic. All it needs is for the groups to be identical, which is achieved by a simple copy/paste of the groups in the schematic.
There are actually more ways how to copy placement - for example some people use rooms (this should be simple to use), other people use snippets etc. The way in video was very interesting for me as it shows PCB List table which can be very useful also in other cases, it is quite simple to use and doesn't require any special settings or features.
@@RobertFeranec That's true, but the room method require special schematic setup and even then, coppers are not replicated from one block to the other. Don't get me wrong, I'm just saying it could easily be improved :)
@@dreamofmirrors I agree
@@dreamofmirrors I agree that room method is hard but everything inside a block can be replicated from one block to the other. It doesn't matter it is a track or a string.
@@RobertFeranec Be careful. In Altium 19.1 (I did not try in 19.0) is a bug, and through PCB list, you can not change the layer. It can be a quite big problem when you have a large circuit which combines the top and bottom placement. According to tech support, they know about this. This problem is caused by introducing unlimited numbers of mech layers. Unfortunately, at this moment, fix is not planned... Altium does not stop to surprise me... This is perfect trick Robert, and I found it as a very useful. Unfortunately, I can not use it in Altium 19.1
Laughs in PADS “make reuse” ;-)
No man... no.. 😶
Why don't you use rooms?
I do occasionally use rooms for special rules, however I do not normally use them as I do not normally need them.
真的是泰裤辣
It is not a time saving method, it is waste of time, I think Mentor Graphics have better option can create reuse within few seconds. Altium should improve the placement options to speedup the work.
I use a script to do this. Look here: github.com/Altium-Designer-addons/scripts-libraries/tree/master/Scripts%20-%20PCB/ComponentPlacement
At the top of the ComponentPlacement.pas file:
{ Summary This scripts is made to ease component placement. It allows user }
{ to easily copy destination component placement based on their }
{ relative placement of orientational component (I know this does }
{ not explain anything, but read on). }
{ }
{ This script asks user to click on components a lot. First he needs }
{ to select source orientational component and destination }
{ orientational component. This two components are main ones, since }
{ all other component placement will be based on this two. }
{ }
{ After this user needs to click on source component, and after that }
{ on destination component. Destination component placement will be }
{ changed so that relative placement of source component and source }
{ orientational component = relative placement of destination }
{ component and destination orientational component }
This works in Altium 13.3.4 - if the scripting engine has been changed it probably won't work in the latest re-written Altium versions.