Game Apologist - Sonic Mania
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- Опубликовано: 21 авг 2024
- Yep. We're doing this.
What can be said about this game that you haven't seen in a thousand other videos? Sonic Mania is a great game!
...but is it the BEST Sonic game?
In this episode, we compare Mania to the best of Sonic, how crazy it is we basically got a new Sega Saturn game in 2017, and join in the chorus of praise this title has evoked.
Like, subscribe, and all that crap please!
The only thing that I don't like about mania (other than the oil ocean act 2 boss) is that it brings along people wanting to kill off 3D sonic, and people saying sonic hasn't had a single good game since 1994.
Olivier.wmv agreed but I think that's just because of hype around the launch of Sonic games, like it was like this when sonic generations came out also.
Eh, us old-school fans can get annoying. I get more into that with the Sonic 3 script I've been working on.
In the meantime though, just gotta avoid the haters. Keep in mind that the best of the fanbase aren't sitting around bitching. They instead put that passion to use and...well...got hired and made an actual Sonic game.
I think that we need an adventure game again, but with only sonic levels. Or they could make it so you could play the games story with 3 dif characters like mania.
Agree with ya
@@GameApologist sonic adventure 2 is the best sonic period
I swear to god I cried when I first saw the opening animation. This game makes me so goddamn happy
I cry almost every time I see it.
It’s so great how sonic can mean so much to so many people. Can you imagine creating something like that? Yuji Naka must be a proud pappy
Same
Everyone did
*The most played game on my Switch, with Plus included. Greatest Sonic game to this day!* 💯
and then plus happened, which made an already amazing game even amazinger.
mania was my first sonic game besides unleashed when i was a kid, now i’ve gone back and played 1-3 + CD and i cant believe i wasn’t a fan until now
Only thing I don't like about Mania Plus is the new Metal Sonic boss.
theaviationknowitall 22
what was the original boss? I’ve only played plus
@@cheeto_thunderstorm i only have plus too, but ive seen videos of it, like this one: ruclips.net/video/YQPByl5Zrg8/видео.html
Amanzinger does NOT EXIST. Learn English! *more amazing
Sonic:-gets drunk on 06-
Sonic in 2010: hey guys, I’ve gotten sober again!
Sonic in 2013:-gets drunk off his ass again-
Sonic in 2017: hey dudes, I’m back!
Sonic literally 2 months later: -drunk as hell once again-
Jake The Chief
30th Aniverssary arrives
Classic Sonic is a good, pure and sober boy.
Modern Sonic is that same boy but after being dragged through hell and back. Multiple times. He's turned to alcoholism to take the pain away, but it's only turned into an addiction, never really taking any of the pain away.
Jeeses99 the story of lost world is extremely bad and the gameplay is mediocre
Mike and Isaiah Robin boys I strongly disagree with both of those stances.
Jared Argento i strongly disagree with your disagreement
I disagreed about the fact that Sonic Mania's final boss was underwhelming because the final boss actually has a deeper meaning (Eggman going crazy, his base it literally about to blow and yet he risks his life to kill Sonic, yeah actually goes to a whole other level.) and the fact that Mania has a true final boss which you access if you collect all 7 Chaos Emeralds, which is insanely awesome to me. Yeah, I see where you're coming from but it just isn't right to me.
Other than that, you did a fantastic job on the video and I need more videos like this from you.
Hey I always love seeing other opinions from my own, thank you so much for sharing your insight and taking the time to watch the video!
@@GameApologist You're very welcome!
@@GameApologist you have respect. I respect that. Plus one sub :)
(Sadly some people don't have that and believe their opinion is law)
@@insomnatrix the truth
also the man deserves more for the great content he produces ✌
I think the semi-final boss of Mania was a good enough end, but maybe the explosion of the true ending should've happened regardless, and then we get a bit of a cliffhanger as to whether Sonic got out alive or not, but as Eggman comes out of the rubble...it's told to us, we lost.
So a Saturn might be able to do sonic mania (granted, with some downgrades,) but can the mythical SEGA CD 32X CAN!?
Someone needs to make a downgraded port of Mania to the Sega Saturn; it would be as hard since fans have had access to the files and game data of Mania for more than a year by now.
@@chocov1233 It's still would be hard af, they'd have to remake most of the game
@@chocov1233 maybe start with Dreamcast and work down?
The question is: Would that have been a smart business decision at the time? No matter how good said Sonic game would have been, it would be another 2D game while other big guys jumped to 3D. It would be terrible for Sega's image and end up being just a "hidden gem".
@@M3rtyville Maybe. Castlevania did both a 2d and 3d game and the 2d one did way better
I think I’ve slowly become more and more interested in sonic as I’ve watched your videos I used to casually play sonic games as they came out but now I’m going back and playing through all the originals just wanted to say thanks you’ve lit the blue hedgehog fire inside of me
I had only ever played 3D sonic games,and like,4 minutes of sonic 2? And i had a fucking blast with the game. I completed the game with all 3 characters individually and collected 3 emeralds in my first run!
Yes,i think it's because i play platformers a lot,but....ey...
please don't kill me for sharing my experiences with the game? Please?
I love getting other perspectives. Thank you for sharing!
Dang it, you upload when I really should be getting to sleep and my phone's about to die. I'll be grabbing that charger :).
hahaha thank you! Sorry about the sleep!
I have no idea how and why im discovering this awesome string of videos and awesome youtuber. Absolutely adore your stuff Nick. Funny & Informing.
"While expertly ramping up the difficulty without ever becoming overwhelming"
Marble Garden and Sandopolis would like to have a talk with you
Manek Iridius Yeah, I’ve always been able to get through Marble Garden with little issue. Heck, I actually didn’t even think Sandopolis was that bad compared to Carnival Night and Launch Base, which made me want to ragequit on my first play through.
@Manek Iridius Chief, I'm not gonna lie, that stage was one heck of a maze man.
Ilay Huh. I’ve never really gotten lost in it. Carnival Night and Launch Base on the other hand? Those zones were kind of confusing on top of being stupidly hard at times, an issue I always had at least once when playing one of the classic games for the first time.
@@jaredargento1511 Oh come on Carnival Night and Launch Base are a breeeze, and Sandopolis is not that bad either
*That one barrel from carnival night though...*
Nah bro, Sandopolis is ""almost"" perfectly in S&K.
RUclips recommendations
2017:
2018:
2019:
2020: Hey, dude, you might like this series deconstructing your favorite series ever.
DUDE, WTF? This is awesome!! Subbed. :)
Same here
Same... same day too...… what are you playing at RUclips?
@@Blaze4ification A friend linked me to the Sonic & Knuckles appreciation video and I've been binging. It's awesome!
I know right!
You deserve more subs.
greatly appreciated. thank you!
@@GameApologist yes I understand how old the vid is, and I am not exactly expecting a response, but you had some stellar points on this game. I can definitely see how this would be oriented towards fans of the series as opposed to newcomers.
@@GameApologist how come you only comment to comments that complement you.
@@ironsquier because they're being kind and I'd like people to know i appreciate them. Not gonna waste any energy on negative comments.
Also that first comment was three years ago dude.
@@ryancourteau5274 and sorry for the delay while we are in this thread. Appreciate the feedback, Ryan.
Sega has struggled with their poster boy Sonic for a while now, though not for lack of trying. Sonic Mania was a way to get some fresh ideas from a completely different perspective, and we were rewarded with an experience that feels both new and familiar at the same time. I think Sega should learn from this experience and just take a step back for a moment instead of constantly pushing new ideas across to see what works. Werewolves didn't work. Releasing an unfinished final product certainly didn't work. Hopefully they can build off of this in a positive way. I, for one, have renewed confidence that they can return the Blue Blur to relevance in the gaming community. He likely will never reach the peak of his Genesis days, but l would like to see a Sonic that isn't best known for his bad games, at the very least. This game fills me with hope, and it's been a while since I felt this good about Sonic.
Sonic peaked on Dreamcast & GameCube actually with the Adventure Games. Sonic 06 failed because it was severely rushed onto unfamiliar hardware while other internal problems happened & because it failed Sonic Team has been too afraid to make more games like the most successful 3D Sonic Games.
Correction (kinda): Although the speedrunners do get excited at the THOUGHT of a drop dash, it was actually added because Christian Whitehead saw beginners do a full spin dash to get up a small ramp, and he wanted a quicker way to gain speed for beginners.
The Drop Dash is *REALLY, REALLY* awesome, though.
I know I'm old in this, but I feel that the debate of "Greatest Sonic Game" has less to do about opinions and more to do with the validity of opinions, and that thought process led me to agree and disagree with some of your points. When judging the "best" of something, you have to tear away as much subjectivity as possible while considering the topic at hand. Ideas like "nostalgia" shouldn't be included or else it becomes a "greatest of all time TO SOME" category, which while valid in it's own right isn't the debate. At the same time, the idea of "nostalgia" is entirely valid because it's one of the core rewards of Sonic Mania. It's as great as it is BECAUSE of the nostalgia it brings while providing new content. For me, it was "Wow, I remember that!" and "Woah, is THAT how it was? I didn't play that game but maybe I should!"
The way I see it, the only objective way to say "This is the best game of all time" is to get multiple people who have never played video games to each play a Sonic game and judge their opinions. Whoever had the most fun is playing the best Sonic game of all time.
Well, it's more complicated than that but the idea stands.
I've watched this twice now. I really like how you highlight that this game needs to be good for you. I feel the same way, and I'm sure so many other Sonic fans do. Whether it's some solice through nostalgic Sonic or a brand new experience for you, this game lives up to an almost unreasonably high expectation. What Sonic Mania gives to me is a chance to be an 8 year old again without having to worry about my adult life. For maybe a few hours I can just go fast.
"I love that they're unlockables and not just some stupid dlc!"
Me: *laughs in July 17th 2018*
Please elaborate
@@Schnort *What Sonic related thing came out in 2018?*
The funny thing is it's actually a very good dlc, that adds a lot of stuff to the game.
I feel like this is a sonic game that can be ur first and once u play others u can comeback and appreciate the little nods and references
A little late but apparently Sega would only let the developers of mania have 4 original zones and the rest had to be old ones with green hill and chemical plant being mandatory.
Wow.
That explains a lot
Of course, because they always think they know what's best...
I never played Sonic Mania, but I can still see that it looks like a great game to play. I still think Sonic 3 & Knuckles is the best Sonic game
ruclips.net/video/GTG-pnzlkLk/видео.html for windows
If you hit W repeatedly it will add mach levels in the special stages 😂
Your opinion is valid. But mania is the best sonic game, as per critics. .
@@omega-manthe8346 the worst part about mania is the stages are all old minus the one. Where is mania 2?
My favourite sonic game is sonic 2 (maybe because this is this is the best game that you can normally play on phone, and my laptop is worse than phone =)
And sonic 1 is too hard for me, especially when trying to get good ending
@@Fan_of_Minecraft-UA you played Sonic 2 on a phone? I have Sonic 2 for PS3 in the Sonic Ultimate Genesis Collection.
Did you know: Sonic Origins is coming with Sonic 1, Sonic 2, Sonic CD & Sonic 3 & Knuckles
I think it would be insanely damaging to Sonic's image at the time of the Saturn if Sega released a 2D game while Mario 64, Megaman 64, Final Fantasy 7 and Zelda 64 were out.
It was a wise decision to skip it and let the team focus on your boy Sonic Adventure. Being a "hidden gem" wouldn't help Sega at all. It's easy for us to say now "Sonic's image is already damaged" but I am talking about at the time. We can assume a lot of things "retro actively".
Tho the biggest mistake of the Saturn was the president saying "The Saturn isn't our future" and the Japanese Sega being for not listening to Tom Kalinsky
If somebody disagrees, I am willing to listen.
I think most people were too quick to abandon 2d and I think consumers at the time showed that they agreed. Symphony of the Night, Megaman X4, and the Street Fighter Alpha series all showed that people were more than willing to both purchase and give critical acclaim to series 2d entries while they had 3d games on the market. People still adore Symphony of the Night and Alpha 3. How many people honestly remember the N64 Castlevania's or Street Fighter EX compared to their 2d counterparts? I still see no reason Sonic could not have done the same. It wasn't like the Saturn lacked for spectacular 3d first party offerings. Virtua Fighter 2 and Panzer Dragoon Saga look so much better than 95% of other 3d games from that era its unreal. There was no reason Sonic needed to be the 3D showcase.
Add to this list of mistakes their mismanagement of their first attempt at a 3D Sonic... the story behind it is truly a showcase of the REAL reason why SEGA disappeared from the radar more and more after the Genesis, and to a lesser extent, why the Sonic franchise lost its steam.
My argument against that is look at Ray Man and Mega Man X4 through X6. Same generation as Saturn, 2D platformers that didn't spell doom for either their console or their franchise.
Edit: ah yes how could I forget Castlevania SOTN
I feel obliged to note that Sega didn't go straight from Sonic 3 & Knuckles to Sonic Adventure. The Saturn had Sonic Blast as a "regular Sonic game", which was... not the Sonic game anyone wanted.
I'm glad Sonic Mania Plus fixed the zone transitions.
11:13 Totally agree with you here. Sonic 3 and Knuckles, the One True Sonic 3, is the best Sonic game for all of the reasons you gave. I love Sonic Mania, but I feel like it's the sketch comedy of Sonic games. Every level is a creative blend of ideas, but there isn't much consistency from level to level. The game is lacking in an overall identity that all of the classic Sonic games had. Just like sketch comedy, there's nothing wrong with that. Even Monty Python couldn't tell you what their show is really about, but people like it because the individual segments are so entertaining. "And now for something completely different" just means "Let's see what the next playground is like".
Honestly I feel like you were dragging the fact that this game was very challenging for a newcomer, I felt it was as difficult as it needed to be but it wasn’t some hard game that people wouldn’t be able to play without playing prior games.
I don’t know; the other classic games made me absolutely miserable on my first play throughs. Even though I got through Mania with much less problems, that could be because I already had a lot of experience with the classic games. I’m not sure if Mania does enough to accommodate for new players.
Sonic 1 and sonic 2 would be by far the least benificial for newcomers due to some questionable design choices, like the placement of enemies, and especially the lack of save file also. You could make a case for Sonic 3 & Knuckles, though even though I replayed that game to absolute death and Sonic Mania only like 9 times I'd say Sonic 3 & Knuckles is more challenging since it is a quite bit longer than mania, (and don't forget sandopolis act 2 might screw up some people even though personally I breezed through it)
*Tl;DR Sonic Mania seems like it is infact quite the better fit for newcomers*
Positivity is nice for a change.
I know it's literally been years and you already know this
Phantom Ruby
This video perfectly sums up how I feel about Mania, I couldn't agree more. Great video
First sonic game i ever played. Now i am extremly addicted to sonic.
Help
Welcome to tbe club, please pardon our mess.
I know the feeling.
Same
I love sonic and the only sonic games I played were sonic 1, 2, cd, sonic dash, sonic dash 2, and sonic forces speed battle!
@@NvanRoblox ah, i see you are a mobile gamer as well
I recently subscribed to you, and I can safely say, I love the content you put out. Though the opinions may be biased at times, it speaks to me, how I feel about some of the games. Forces seemed like it had potential, but it was very poorly executed when it comes to telling a proper dark story. And I agree with you in that it should have been a Shadow the Hedgehog game. It would have maybe sold better. I like how it shows Knuckles in a leadership role, but it still felt like it was missing that extra something. It lacked a certain amount of depth to the plot. Egg "let's please just call him Robotnik for Christ Sake" man was definitely a very cartoonish foe compared to maybe Unleashed's Robotnik. infinite, I felt, had potential to be the greatest villain since Mephiles (Yes I know 06 is not very well received, but Mephiles was a successful villain.) I'm done ranting I just wanted to say, I'm here and I'm here to stay. Can't wait for the next one, GA!
Mephiles wasn’t a villain, he just wanted to show everyone how great Fortnite was
The thing i love about sonic mania is that brings you back to the feeling of just pressing foward and smile while listening to dope music.
I never thought id watch ben 10 explain sonic to me but this is great
I love how you used one of Peter Knetter’s thumbnails in your video, haha. Nice vid, I enjoyed it.
patter the natter bakes batter because it doesn't matter, but the windows shatterd
(that's all a big joke.)
I agree with you on S3&K still being the best Sonic game, despite Mania being a MASSIVELY great game and a welcome come back (:
To me, Mania lacks its own personality, it IS sort of a collection of the best moments of Sonic career with some new things here and there---that's why I hope Sonic Mania, as good as it is, was only a testing ground for an upcoming full fledged sequel c: just like you said xD
Also, subscribed, loved your reviews of Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles :3
I can agree completely. Sonic Mania feels like a Classic Counterpart to Sonic Generations, in a way. It's a collection of some of the best things about Genesis-Era Sonic, much like how Generations was a collection of Sonics most iconic Levels throughout his history.
But that's not me insulting Mania or Generations. I love that they can take those things and make them so much better than they already were (or just make them fun to play in the case of Generations Crisis City)
@@ChaoticTeen16 That is so true, now that you mention it! And it was definitely a nice touch adding some stuff from '06 in Generations, to prove a point: they CAN make things good when they try hard enough ^^"
Which really raise the question: why Sonic Forces was so mediocre...? Aside from the story, the gameplay was a bit faulty again when they nailed it quite good in Generations. So why the step back?
It feels like they are trying to please every type of Sonic fan but they end up pleasing none :\
Definitely respect your opinion. It's one of the best arguments I've heard so far. Almost made me change my opinion of my favorite being mania.
And it's because the Sega Saturn was my favorite system back then.
In my opinion, Sega missed an opportunity to call Sonic mania plus "Sonic mania and Knuckles". Guess I'll have to keep dreaming...
Some of those Blue Sphere levels were really tough, which is perfect. S3&K had some difficult ones, but they had to lower the cap on how hard they can be since they were needed for those Emeralds. Without that cap the creators could make some stages that really tested my mad skills.
Every possible Blue Sphere level exists as its own game in Mega Collection or through attaching Sonic 1 to Sonic & Knuckles. Eventually you'll find the challenging levels you desire & good luck when playing through Millions of them.
@@WaterKirby1994 Yeah, I played my fair share of Blue Sphere back in the day. Actually, any Genesis cart other than Sonic 2 & 3 can access Blue Sphere. If I remember correctly, each game grants a different code to start the game with.
So you're the blue sphere guy cybershell is talking about
Imagine this, Sonic Mania and Sonic Mania Plus on Sega Saturn, LOL!
I honestly had to look up sonic mania to see if it was originally on the Sega Saturn and I didn't know.
Honestly, speaking as a guy who grew up with 3D Sonic and never really liked classic Sonic, I fucking love this game. It's easily my number 2 Sonic game behind Unleashed.
I think the reason I love it so much is because it's clearly just a love letter to the fans. Everything about from it's creators, to it's opening animation, to the design just screams love and affection.
I remember seeing the announcement for it on Cobanermani456's channel and feeling just the hype and energy and being so excited for this brand new adventure.
This game honestly just makes me really happy, any time I see that beautiful opening animation or I hear Hyper Potion's theme, I just smile. This game is amazing and is absolutely worth the check
My opinion on Sonic Mania is that it brought the nostalgia feeling of when I was a kid playing on my tube tv on channel 3, getting home after school after being bullied, after dealing with dictator of a teacher (talking about elementary school), and the hardship of being a kid, that Sonic was there to take me away from that. Sonic Mania is to me the best MODERN sonic game to date. I believe Sonic 3 & Knuckles to be the best sonic game ever, but Sonic Mania brought that feeling back. We need more Mania, maybe have Modern Sonic visit Mania instead of Classic Sonic visiting Modern Sonic. I hope there is more Mania because this is what we need. More of this. Game Apologist I agree with you on everything you said so far. I'm surprised you haven't mentioned the elevator scene in the Mania intro, where it goes from Floor [Sonic] 1, [Sonic] 2, [Sonic] 3, [& Knuckles or Knuckles Chaotix] K, and [Mania] M. Regardless, love this video, totally agree with you on everything.
I agree with this review more than any other. It hit all the right points for me good and bad (especially the art inconsistency. No one else even mentions it). Great job.
Thank you!
game apologist: I cant wait to see what's next
sonic forces: I'm about to end this mans career
When I played Sonic 1 and 2, I was a year or two old. He had always captivated my heart, and when Sonic mania came out I pulled out my old plush of Sonic and Tails I got when I was 3 and just... mastered the fuck out of it. I beat it with every character and combination, getting the emeralds by stage 2 by the time I hit tails solo, and loved every second of it. Even doing the special stage challenges just for the heck of it.
I loved this game, and really hope to see more from it. It may not have been perfect, but it was amazing and I think it would have been that much better if they allowed themselves to make stages that were completely original. Sure, burning oil ocean was cool, but Press garden and Mirage saloon nailed the game where it needed it. Plus, dropping into Poyo Poyo?
God damn.
Sorry but how can you play a game alone when you're one or two years old?
@@Narusasu98 I didn't, not well at least.
Mostly, it was me watching my brother play. I played Green hill sometimes but I didn't really do much except jump around. I mighta beat it once or twice through sheer luck of holding right more than normal, but that's it.
I would sign you as a TV personality if I was RUclips. Your content is great Nick. And your followers have good things to offer as well. Awesome channel
Strangely enough, Sonic mania fixes some of these problems in Sonic mania plus. Plus was like a patch.
Even tho I was late to the Sonic Fan Wagon (like c'mon I got into the franchise with Sonic Adventure 2 Battle on the Gamecube and then went back to play the classics), but I have to agree with everything you said. Btw amazing video, tho.
Thanks!
19:18
Its like what Cybershell said. It’s not 2007 anymore, i’m tired of people acting like Sonic has the worst fanbase and games of all time, and I’m tired of people ignoring how chilled out and talented the fan base has become up until now.
In a few words: *_Sonic Mania is a tribute to the 2D era of Sonic._* Akin to Sonic Generations.
It is a celebration, mixing old Sonic levels with a whole new spin and also introducing brand new levels and mechanics. You could say that Mania was a test to see how the fans would react. And maybe, who knows, if we ever get a Sonic Mania 2, maybe it'll be its own thing.
The Oil ocean act 2 boss killed me so often by crushing me with one of those platforms it's not funny.
I died like 20 times in my entire run of playing the game if you exclude that one boss fight, and like 200 times if you DO include it.
Also, because I have a mega drive (yes, it's a PAL machine, so that's likely also going to influence the result), and use it with either a plasma TV or a CRT television...
It's worth nothing something else I've noticed here;
Every time I play Sonic 2 using any form of emulation (steam collection, console collections, using a ROM with a generic emulator, or what have you) I always seem to have a hell of a time with the timing for Chemical plant zone.
I get crushed a lot by the rotating blocks, and the boss kills me frequently too.
Yet playing this on my actual Mega Drive with a real cartridge and old school television setup, these very same problems almost never happen.
I don't get crushed much, the boss is trivial...
I can't be certain but the emulated version always feels like the controls are a bit like trying to wade through molasses. The input latency is just way too high to play the game comfortably. (and you can in fact demonstrate that the input latency of most emulated copies is a lot higher than of an old school console.)
OK, so what's the relevance to Sonic Mania?
Well, I don't know if there's anything they could have done about it, given modern hardware design (double buffering, LCD screens, etc), but Sonic Mania has that same molasses-like sluggishness as the emulated games, rather than the instant responsiveness of the real thing. (my copy is on a Nintendo switch, so it's not PC overhead in this case, and the problem remains whether using the internal display or an external one.)
Seems classic sonic is not a latency friendly concept, and unfortunately, Sonic Mania has way more latency than the oldschool games do. (at least when played on original hardware)
Of course... It could also be I'm totally wrong here - the emulated versions are almost universally NTSC and and as I said my old hardware is all PAL.
While some games of the era adjust for the frame rate difference of 50 vs 60 hz (Mario Kart for instance - gameplay speed is the same on both platforms in spite of the framerate change), many games of the era simply run at 5/6th the speed.
Not only is this slower, which is generally considered easier...
It also means everything I got used to about Sonic's behaviour when I was younger is built on the speed he moves on a PAL system, so it stands to reason even if the speed change isn't innately more difficult, it screws someone like me up because all the timing I'm used to is off...
OR, I could just be massively overthinking it. After all the emulated games (and sonic mania) feel sluggish and unresponsive to me, which is the opposite of what you'd expect for something running at a higher framerate than I'm used to...
Just one of those things.
Also the last level/zone/whatever of Mania drives me completely nuts.
Can't stand it.
It looks gorgeous, but playing it is a chore...
KuraIthys
Well jesus i Feel sorry for you..
11:06 it's actually a continuation of Sonic generations,the modern Sonic it's the original timeline and mania's timeline was created after the events of generations.
Wouldn't Classic Sonic know the Homing Attack then ? Plus they retconned Classic Sonic to be from "a different dimension" in Forces. But Classic Sonic in Generations is from the past ? It confusing
@@retromiino4587 Much like Blaze was originally from a different dimension and now it's someone from the future, like Silver. Sonic Team isn't known for their consistency.
@@lenlimbo Ah, thanks for clearing that up. The overrall story between the classic and modern games needs to be more fleshed out because as it stands Sonic Team dont even seem to know how it works 😅
Retromiino “Different dimension” as in multiverse theory a la Endgame or DBZ. After Generations, Classic Sonic’s timeline would be a completely different timeline. If it WASN’T, then Eggman would know what the Phantom Ruby does in Forces, when the canon prequel comics tells us he has no idea what it is, and Modern Sonic should know all of the events of Forces, since he should have lived through it as his Classic self. But that doesn’t happen, because it’s not the same timeline.
@@Bornheck THIS!
I'm so glad I was able to hop on to the Sonic train just before Mania was announced back then. I had been playing Sonic 1-3 along with a little bit of CD here and there a whole lot at that time so imagine the amount of excitement I had been feeling when they first revealed it.Being able to play a new game that defined the reason I fell in love with playing the games in the first place all packaged into a newly released product.
And then to actually play it? It was such a great time!
Years later, this game still inspires hype and happiness. What a great game.
8:20 I actually just came from a Peter Knetter video, so this was an awesome surprise
I'm on the "Sonic Mania is the best sonic game made so far" side of the fence, but I think I approach things from a different angle than you do. I played a lot of different games growing up, and even discovered many old gems more recently, and so I tend to look at a game not just through the lens of its own legacy, but the games that exist or existed around it. In other words, I look at Sonic Mania and what I see is, "this is what Sonic would have been like on the Saturn if SEGA licensed Treasure to make Sonic 4." ...Well, that, and an added dash of Turtles in Time.
In both cases, that's just how those games were back in the day. When they were new and people hadn't seen a lot like them. Treasure's Gunstar Heroes with its big, exaggerated boss fights and well above average level of difficulty (but also really tight game design) and TMNT4 with its "variety hour" sort of feeling as it bounces you between wildly different settings. That's what drew me into those games the first time, and I go into Sonic Mania enjoying it pretty excessively because it's so over the top.
Game Apologist: And not some stupid DLC-
*Sonic Mania plus releases*
I definitely think this is the best Sonic game so far (Sonic 3&K used to be my favorite but Mania beat it when it came out), but I agree that it isn't for newcomers. Hell, I'm really glad that I replayed Sonic 1, 2, and 3&K the day before I played Mania, because not only would I catch many references due to just being a big Sonic fan (honestly, having seen as many let's plays as I have, I think I'm one of the only people who got the Motobug the Badnik reference), but playing them so recently meant that I caught tons of smaller references, too.
I definitely agree the story was better in S3&K, but the level design in Mania was so much better. It took what worked and left behind what didn't while adding MORE stuff that works. Honestly, how many people forgot the corkscrew elevator was even in the original Flying Battery Zone? I know I did. And I never once said "I wonder what happened to the corkscrew elevator" while playing Mania. Plus, widescreen makes such a huge difference. Though... Now that Sonic 3 A.I.R. is out, my favorite might be tied between S3&K and Mania.
S3&K
- Better story
- Hyper Sonic
- Insta Shield (without having to play in no save mode. No really, why is that a requirement again?)
Mania
- Better level design in most cases
- Better Super Sonic final boss
- Drop Dash
9:36 MEAN BEAN MACHIIIINE!!!
It was nice that it was included as a minigame and not just briefly referenced in a boss battle. My only issue is that what they give you is way too easy for me. You end up with only the difficulty of the first half of Mean Bean Machine. I wanted the stupid hard levels where the beans fall faster than you can see.
The boss had the appropriate difficulty, but they should have subbed out Robotnik for one of those derpy robots.
If you get enough medals from the blue sphere stages you can unlock a mean bean side mode with different levels and difficulty modes
@@MixxedBerries I should have clarified. I was talking about the unlockable mode. It's fun, but I can breeze through the highest difficulty no problem.
It's a nice little novelty, and I'm glad it's in there, but I personally would have liked it if they made it more difficult. That's just me being selfish, though. If I really wanted to play Mean Bean Machine I have the Mega Collection, Mega Collection Plus, Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection, and the original cartridge.
8:20 S O S
Cybershelll…you have been replaced.
Oil Ocean Zone on fire always cracks me up.
I still think Sonic Rush is the best in the series (odd pick I know).
Solid game, and different enough from the rest of the franchise where I can see why you'd pick it.
man i just wanna talk about sonic with you over voice chat one day
Maybe we'll do just that sometime!
Game Apologist can i join too
Saying "Sonic Mania" is better than "Sonic 3 & Knuckles" is like saying The Beatles "20 Greatest Hits" album is better than "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band".
I don't know why but I love Ray, he's my favourite character in the game AND I DON'T EVEN USE HIS ABILITY THAT MUCH
Another great video. I like your trail of thought that new comers to the game should start with the original Sonic games. I'm a long time Sonic fan and I find this game hard and frustrating, but I'm enjoying the challenge. Someone new to it, may find it too frustrating.
A buddy of mine said this was his first and didn't agree at all about what I said about newcomers.
...but then again he day one purchases every Dark Souls game. So.
Tbh for me the game got so frustrating I had to look up all the special rings and get the emeralds as fast as possible so I could cheese every level with Super Sonic
Personally, I reckon Sonic 3K and Sonic Mania are on par with one another, they level out their pros and cons between one another. Sonic Mania has an amazing opening animation, an incredible soundtrack (better than Sonic 3K imo), huge level maps to explore, the best special stages we've ever seen, but lacks on zone transitions and thus a cohesive story (I feel this may be because of time constraints however, considering push backs). It took me a while to realize that Sonic and co. literally fell off Stardust Speedway Zone (moved out of Little Planet's gravitational pull), dropped into Hydrocity Zone, and then worked their way back to Angel Island Zone to pick up the Tornado and fly it into Mirage Saloon Zone - all because the transitions weren't there to provide the detail. The time limit of 10 minutes also conflicts heavily with the long intensive zones like Titanic Monarch Act 2. Sonic 3K, on the other hand, had far more originality than it's past titles (but it's easier to do that with a then 4-year-old franchise), and much more understandable story due to the level transitions being consistent. Thus, the world felt much larger, without needing the huge zones Mania provides. My thoughts aside, amazing video again GA, looking forward to the rest of your Sonic series.
Thanks! I appreciate the words, and the interesting take on the Mania journey.
Like I said in the video, I'm mostly just happy that we have a game good enough to challenge S3&K's "best of the best" title so many of us older fans have declared it to be.
honestly, i don't remember *any* of the music from Mania, despite having played through it two or three times by now. None of it really stood out or stuck with me at all. It always felt like the original games being limited by the synthesizer hardware available on the console (in this case the PSG+YM2612) forced the composers to be more creative with the music, and gave better results. Michael Jackson tracks aside, the S3K soundtrack is so ridiculously memorable.
Likewise, I kind of hate the special stages in Mania. I hated the Sonic CD 3D stages as well. It just feels too clunky, and like I'm never really in control -- and they're just *not fun*. Because of that, I tend to have very little desire to actually play them, and I don't think I've ever seen the true ending because of it.
really agree with GA's point about SM not being for newbies, bc I made this mistake myself. Manis is my first Sonic game, and even though I am relatively experienced with platformers, I find myself rage-quitting every other day after getting a game over. Please don't make the same mistake I did!
Yeah, I honestly don’t think ANY of the classic Sonic games are good starting points for people looking to get into the Sonic series. To me, Mania lacking beginner-friendliness is simply a byproduct of the games it’s based on having just as little beginner-friendliness, if not less. I personally believe that Generations and especially Colors are much better starting points.
oops, i missed this video. Anyway, this touched on things I believed while playing and this video was just well made.
IGN joke:IGN stands for "Improfessional Game Reviews" i guess that explains the "Sonic Was Never Good" speech lol
Imperfect
Immature
Ignorant
Plenty would make sense
so what does the n stand for?
You can't spell ignorant without IGN.
as much it is a good game it had too many classic levels , than newer levels , i would have loved the game more if it had newer levels than classic ones !
What's really funny is going through an original level and going "what game is this level from?". I honestly hope that if they come out with sequels they'll shift to having more of the levels being original. Though, I'm glad Lava Reef made an appearance. It's my favorite track in Sonic & Knuckles.
I'm pretty sure that was Iizuka not wanting to be upstaged
I heard Sega requested that the Mania team add "remixed" levels to the game so that it would be longer (and probably because nostalgia sells).
that would not surprise me as a lot of fans r classic sonic fans , i think we can all agree that we wanted Ice Cap Zone instead of Hydrocity Zone !
@@tylerhughes9090 Hydrocity is still good so I can't complain...and they can't put in Ice Cap because of its music
I can't hear this correctly without hearing kermit the frog
> Sonic Mania is good
> Is not the greatest ever made
> This is
> Shows S3&K
> *immediatly like*
*Sega* : ok boys .we did it Sonic is all over the place, his one of the most beloved characters in gaming!
*Workers* : cool! So... what's next?
*Sega* :were just gonna throw all of that from the window and make a new Sonic that everyone will hate! And once every one forget about Sonic's existence !
...THEN WE WILL GO BACK TO WHAT PEOPLE LOVED BEFORE AND BUILD ON IT TO MAKE WHAT PEOPLE WANTED AND SONIC WILL BE ALL OVER THE PLACE!
*workers* : ooo... kkkaaaayyy ?
And when will we make that Sonic game ?
*Sega* : after 23 years of edgy the cringehog and
,06 :))))))))))))
(Before you say it, I'm not one of "THOSE" Sonic fans! This comment is just for fun!)
*Me* : *genius*
fun fact! this was the first Sonic game i’ve ever played
i finished it, yes, but never really touched it again. then, later, i opened it up again. and i LOVED IT. i loved it even more after learning more about the Sonic series. and Mania is my absolute favorite Sonic game now
edit: second favorite. SA2 gang
play it again
RonicalterRBLX ive 100% it lmao
Hutch2Much now do it again
@Adrian Scott it’s a lot of fun! idk if i like S3&K more or Mania but they’re both solid titles
I really wonder why your content doesn't have as much attention as it should... I'd watch your videos over and over and never get tired, heck I enjoy johnny´s videos but yours, man I feel the love you put in to them.
Hey it’s me sonic here my friend never played sonic 3 but he played sonic mania
Where’d you get that can you feel the sunshine slowed down?
Just nabbed it online like a lazy boy. I can warp it myself, but as inexperienced as i was, Im sure i just punched "can you feel the sunshine creepy" or something like that into Google and went from there.
6:20 specktACKular
I saw somewhere that a move similar to drop dash could be done in the Sonic 3 prototypes; that could've been the basis for it. But I propose a different idea; with the use of a few game genie codes, the Sonic 3 proto *also* has an interesting move where Sonic throws a ring (by pressing A or B) at the badniks or monitors, they break, and your ring count *does NOT go down!* You can use the move without _any_ rings; you can even press C to throw TWO rings in *both* directions! THAT move should also have been in Sonic Mania...
That move's not available until after he beats Ring Man.
...
I'm imagining Sonic in Megaman 4 now. I just nerd-sniped myself.
The best thing about mania for me? The first act of every returning stage was a combination of the acts from the game it came from, the nice little nostalgia call which hooks us in. But act 2 not only changed the music, but even spiced up the stage with fresh gimmicks to enjoy! Now we’re bouncing around on trampoline jelly in chemical plant and riding fireworks in stardust speedway setting off sparklers as we challenge the sound barrier. This game feels like a mix of nostalgia and new additions trying to make that appeal to those without the nostalgia. What I’m trying to say is, this game try’s it’s dang hardest to appeal to fans, nostalgic folk, and people who have zero idea what the importance of the chaos emeralds is.
Its good, but S3&K is still the best 2D game. Glad we're on the same page
I’m gonna be honest, I had more fun from sonic 06 than sonic 2
I can’t realate I don’t have any real hardware
Only game I got is sonic 1 and 2
The only thing that bothers me a lot is that star light zone from sonic 1 didn't make it to mania coz we only got one zone from sonic 1 and star light zone has some fast moments on it
My knowledge tells me that Sonic Mania is a Combination of all offical 2D Sonic games.
wow dude. ok great ending tho
mania is great i im so happy that the game came out
here let tell u a secret. i never played sonic 3 and K, well not to the end at least. even tho iv played all the games i have never beten it. so even if i dont have all of the nostalgia from 3&k i still loved mania.
btw the special stages from mania is actually a nod to all the sonic special steges, not only sonic cd.
oh and i dont know if the game could run this smoth on a saturn
anyway i see that your vids are geting bether and bether, you just have to fix the audio, and then not use to much reused fotage and then your good to go.
but i have to say that ending tho.
amazing job on the vid
Saturn handled 2d with panache. 60fps 2d games exist all over that system.
Everyone: *waits 23 years for sonic mania*
Me a mobile terraria player: pathetic.
My question to scientist is... could Robotnik's Hydrocity act 1 boss vehicle actually function? You know the one that has rockets orbiting it on tracks.
Agree that Sonic 3 & Knuckles is the best Sonic game ever, with Sonic 2 and Sonic Mania coming in at a very close 2nd and 3rd place, respectively. The End Boss for Sonic Mania is just fine IMO since it helps to culminate almost every trick Sonic has previously seen into a climatic showdown. That said, the TRUE End Boss(es) (with the Phantom Crystal) being tossed around between villains like a game of hot potato is the battle that is a bit underwhelming since all you have to do is hit each villain once before they switch out again, and once you get the rhythm down as Super Sonic, your pretty much "golden"! Plus, the end cinematic for beating the True End Boss(es) is not only short, but fairly depressing as well.
I subbed and clicked the bell icon
What happens when you do that?
If you click the bell for his channel you have no regrets
0:06 Me: It’s a ComrBack.
While I do think Sonic 3 & Knuckles has the advantage of being cohesive from start to finish, I think Sonic Mania nails other, and (in my opinion) more important aspects far better than Sonic 3 & Knuckles did. Particularly, Mania has fantastic level design across all levels. They're big, explorative, fast, challenging without being cheap, and they hardly ever break your flow. Sonic 3 & Knuckles had some levels like this, but there are also plenty of instances in S3&K where you will go at a break-neck speed, only to run into an obstacle and kill all of your momentum, and thus break the flow of your gameplay. Mania has instances where it slows you down, but it eases you back and forth between fast-paced running and slow platforming. S3&K also has a lot of stop-and-go (i.e. you wait for the level to complete a task for you, then it gives you back control), while Mania doesn't have hardly any of it (and if it does, it never lasts for long and doesn't break the flow).
I don't know, it's these things that make it hard for me to revisit Sonic 3 & Knuckles after playing Sonic Mania (and I say all of this thinking S3&K was the best overall sonic game before Mania). Mania was a humongous labor of love, and a true celebration of the best elements of classic sonic, bringing back fan favorite levels, taking what worked about sonic's gameplay and level design while expanding on it, and injecting enough fresh and new ideas that don't feel like tact-on gimmicks to make it more than just a Greatest Hits playlist.
Just thought I would share my thoughts. Loved your video. Keep up the great work!
Very good points and I'm so sorry I'm responding three freaking months later!!
It will probably be a while before I tackle S3&K, but you bring up a lot for me to chew on. It'll be interesting to give that game a deep dive now that Mania is out in the world.
Honestly I feel that Sonic Mania and Generations are just fan service games. Like how Sonic can only move forward by going back to it's older games (mania) whereas generations was just an anniversary title.
the first time I reached the chemical plant eggman mean bean machine fight
I loved it and thought
are they going to release a new "mean bean machine I'd buy it"
then I realised you can unlock it
but still I'd buy it for online :D maybe
Yeah they packed a lot of love in that game. I can't wait to review Plus.
I completely agree on the negative about Mania trying to be everything. It lacks cohesion. I think this is why I was a bit more lenient on Forces than the majority: because it feels like NEW content (the three reused level themes nonwithstanding) with a new storyline, new features (like the avatar) and actual new levels, rather than it being a "best of" or a watered down version of something else (like Lost World with Mario Galaxy). The last game I can count on being new content, was Colors. That´s 7 years of drought.
I love Mania. I really do. But it is so obviously made to appeal to people who pretend the series as a whole (not just the "classic" 2d games) ended in 1994. I think this is sad because, despite people like you and me getting all the references and loving every minute of this dang game, ultimately, the overall gaming community values Mania more on what it DOESN´T have than what it does, like "3d", or "shitty friends", or "crappy modern music". I think this is, pretty much, admission of defeat, a problem that, in my opinion, began with Generations. As good as it was, treating Classic Sonic as a separate entity was the beginning of this. Classic in Generations (and by proxy, Forces) is not classic Sonic as he was, but as people remember him: a portly and adorable mascot, that in no way was a lame 90s cool kid like that shitty modern Sonic, and that never did cool stuff for the sake of being cool like outrunning the screen in Chemical plant (because there never were speed boosters in the classic games, silly me), escaping an avalanche on a snowboard in 3K, and never acted like a teen with attitude in the cartoons and comics. No, he was goddam Mickey Mouse. And sega addmited defeat with Generations. I´ll chalk it up to brand management because I don´t see Nintendo treating classic Mario like a completely different character, because they heavily associate all of his past, pixel sprite included, with his current design, so you never see people complaining that they prefer the red overalls, the brooklyn backstory, or the classic cast like Foreman Spike and Wart, over the shitty modern characters like Rosalina and Waluigi.
I feel bad for Sega regarding Mania´s success, because they made Mania basing the game on not including things, so they are at a stalemate position. Mark my words: a hypothetical Mania 2 is bound to be destroyed by internet complainers. Add new level themes that are not nostalgia based? They will have lost the touch. Adding new level elements that aren´t ones from S3K? They will be gimmicky and unfun unlike the classic ones. Heck, I bet you that if they added another character from the classic era, like Amy or Vector, people would still complain about "Sonic´s modern friends staunching the game". There can be no Mania 2 without criticism.
Or maybe I am being pessimistic and it´s just that I can write essays about that blue rodent. Seriously, I feel like I am doing you disservice because I never ramble this much in your other vids, and they certainly deserve responses. I enjoyed the DBZ plug and play one, and that pinball was indeed a little gem.
PS: Also, I agree on Mania feeling like a Saturn title than just a Genesis recreation. Spot on.
It doesn't really try to pretend anything. It's just a game about classic Sonic, simple as that. It doesn't have all that extra fluff because it would just be a waste of time adding unnecessary stuff.
"Sonic Mania is not for newcomers to Sonic"
WELL EXCUUUUUSE ME, MY FIRST SONIC GAME WAS MANIA
Not in a disrespectul way.
Fun fact: This game was the FIRST classic sonic game i beat. Twice. One with Sonic and Tails and the other with Tails but i got all the chaos emeralds. My first MODERN sonic game i beat was Forces
Mania is second best sonic3&knuckles is best also adventure started development on saturn later shifted to dreamcast one more also you should have put sonic 2’s ad style collector edition at end
Yeah, I imagine some newcomers to the series playing Mania would be confused as to why Chemical Plant act 2's boss suddenly becomes a puzzle game, and not realizing act 1 Metallic Madness is literally Sonic 1's final boss but a little harder at the end.
I know!
It's a mean meme machine reference right--
@@rattle_me_bones Ding ding, correct
If nothing else, it's a waste to play a game like this first, because now the old games will be ruined. You've gotta play 'em in order, it's not as if they're very LONG
ok, so... im not an old fan, in fact, i got a very bad impression from the first time i played sonic, in sonic 4, but omg, i swear mania is the BEST SONIC GAME ive EVER played, the game looks amazing, the controls are perfect, and the music! MMMMM!!
I love sonic mania and this review covers everything good with the game, I always wondered why it was called sonic mania, I would've called it Sonic Revival