I have both gas and electric also and I have done smash burgers on both. I will say it takes a little longer to cook on the electric but, you can achieve the same crust as the gas. I also press mine down with a beacon press and hold it down for 20 seconds. Thanks for the vids.
I just bought an E series, and did smash burgers. I figured out, don't use butter and leave them on a bit longer. They'll get a good char without burning. The family loved them just as much as the ones from our big propane Blackstone!
Pretty much as expected. When use the electric and go to 500 then that is what you are going to get. My blackstone on high hits somewhere around 750 to 800 and that is where the crust comes from. The only thing I disagree with is you could have used your metal spatula to smash the burgers on the E-Series as it would not have touched the surface, no biggie the way you did it was fine just an observation. Great vid keep up the good work!
I have the 22E . have to agree, no where close on the crispy crust. I think the bigger problem is the electric griddle doesn't stay hot once you put the meat on it. Used a laser spot temp checker around the griddle. With 6 burgers on the griddle, the temp dropped to 325 and, even with the lid down, couldn't come back up any higher. Bacon on the porch this morning (58 degrees outside) took 30 minutes to cook. Grill cooled to 280 with 8 pieces of bacon on it and didn't recover. Love the cooking surface but falls short of why I bought a blackstone griddle. Gas next time for me.
Yep, thought the same. It's like using cast iron vs nonstick. You want restaurant like results and durability or home results and be careful of damaging the cooking surface. The only thing you are really gaining with the electric version is more cooking surface.
Great video CJ. Not as good as the gasser, but for folks that live in a complex that doesn't have a place to cook outdoors, like a dorm... That electric griddle is a good option. I'll bet that thing would rock some pancakes! Great video brother!
Personal preference, for sure......but I never saw the point of a "smash burger." My family loves it when I make my homemade patties with ground buffalo and mix it all up with chopped onion/jalapenos/green pepper with spices BEFORE it goes onto the grill, followed up with smoked habanero pepperjack or gouda (you know, real cheese!!!). Speaking of grills, we use a portable pellet smoker grill for all our outdoor meats. Have only used the larger E-series to make breakfast and hibachi chicken w/rice.
Excellent video and comparison. Looking forward to more of your versus videos. As for now I am sticking with my 22" BS. I've only had it for 2 weeks and am really enjoying it. Ron
Hey man New Hampshire here! Love the channel! Love the idea of an electric griddle for the cold times in New England, may not give the exact crust a propane griddle does but they still eat just the same! I just have to wait for Walmart to get them back in stock and then I'm all over it! Thank you for sharing your video!
Couple of things. The different tools used to smash the burgers was a factor. The same tool could have been used since you had paper to protect from scratches on the e series. Second you began the smashing process on the gas griddle first and took the burgers off the e series first so there was less time to develop a flavor crust of any sort. If the flavor crust is make or break just add a tidbit more butter and you won't know the difference. I get amazing flavor crust on mine but I always use a little butter no matter where I cook my meats.
It's difficult to compare the two items as one Blackstone was meant for outside use with a high smoke point that you would not desire inside your home. Secondly, the E-Series was meant for indoor use, hence the lid is to be used to help maintain heat. A good comparison would be a similar item from a different brand that is also electric.
Thanks CJ. I have a Propane 19” PitBoss rolled steel and just picked up the 22” Blackstone E with the cart. 2 reasons / Don’t like cleaning the PitBoss and also live in Cold Michigan and love to cook in the garage. Thinking with the E I can keep that Garage door shut when it’s -10 degrees and fry that bacon on Saturday & Sunday mornings… lol / I’m a PitBoss Pellet Guy normally. Can’t wait to play with my first Blackstone.
CJ I bought a E Series Blackstone Griddle and love it, I have a gas 22" combo charcoal grill Blackstone on my deck and you're welcome to come and pick it up, due to the condensation and rust and all the maintenance of having a gas flat too I think the Teflon coated indoor Blackstone is the bomb 💣 😀, and clean up is a piece of cake 🎂 ! I'm a new edition to your channel CJ and I'm enjoying it! Thanks! Oh you're correct it does take longer to cook on the E Series, BUT the maintenance and cleanup time is a breeze and makes up for it to me!
Hey CJ! Have you used the Blackstone propane griddle indoors? I know it’s not recommended, but if you had proper ventilation like a good hood set full on can you use it indoors safely?
@@CookingWithCJ Thanks for your reply. Love the channel. I gotcha on your smoke alarms. They’re there for a good purpose. I realize it’s not ideal, but I’ve got a brand new propane one sitting unopened that I’ve been itching to use for months now. If my alarms go off, I think I will reconsider. They’re fairly new, so I think they’ll let me know if it’s a no go. I still have about a foot of snow on my deck, so what the heck I thought I’d ask. I guess the adage of keep on grillin’ applies here. So, fingers crossed. We’ll see what happens. Thanks, brother!
Quite revealing match up. I don't think I want something that has to be "babied" all the time. Although it should be a nice addition to the kitchen, if you are used to dealing with non stick cookware. Nicely Done. Thanks for sharing. 😎.
Have you tried the original indoors? Or is there too much smoke? Never mind - saw your reply down below. Great vids. Very enjoyable. Indoor is my only option at the moment. Shared this channel with friends. Great stuff!
I called this before you even started lol. Natural gas beats electric EVERY time. Nothing cooks like natural gas or propane. My stove is natural gas and I wouldn’t have it any other way. Cheers!
I am looking at the e series because I live in an apartment complex where I cannot have a grill outside.And I do not have a deck so I gotta go with what I can get
Yes I noticed the same thing when I made my burgers. I couldn’t get a good to sear. I think the best thing to cook on it is stuff like fish and chicken. Breakfast things. Stuff like that.
Seen Todd Toven's video and wanted a side by side and CJ does it. I had already made my mind up to wait for the 2nd generation of E-Series. W. Ky has to cold a winter for my likeing to use he original some days. As you said it has it's uses and I've seen both your video's and seen enough of your video's to know what that chuckle means.. That for the side by side.... The ring light makes the sunglasses look like you have some wild eyes...LOL Great vid.
Thanks just what I have been looking for. I am leaning towards a 22" and I hear that they will have an electric one out by Fall. I thought the electric wouldn't quite have the heat of gas but if it's close and the nonstick has good longevity. I guess we will have to wait and see.
Looks like it would be just a big mess in the house to cool on that E-Series... What's the surface temperature after they are fully pre-heated; the E-Series seems to be lacking some heat!
I just bought a 22” e series and so far love it. My question is can you use cast iron skillet or stainless pots on it? To heat chili for burgers or beans? Don’t want to mess it up!
Accidentally hit thumbs down... 😬.. this is a great propane vs electric comparison.. very good baseline test and honestly made my decision about electric vs propane for seasonal rv camping.. I was leaning electric because of space limitations, but realized the little bit of extra space for propane will be worth it.. especially when you sit down to eat that burger knowing "it coulda been better"... thanks! Sorry for fat fingering the thumbs down... I fixed it!
I bought my E-Series mostly to do breakfast on days when I don't feel like cooking outside due to weather or whatever reason. Thanks for the video showing the differences in the Smashburgers.
Ceramic coatings can't handle high heat or they break down so that's why the electric one doesn't get as hot if they made it to get hotter the coating would break down.
Wonder how it would heat a small 10 inch cast iron skillet to make burgers and get the sear crust? Just thinking, cause I've watched them set a pan in to make gravy or even one of the grill mates? I just bought 1 for my truck for cooking on the road cause I didn't like carrying propane along
I think the problem was with the e-series, and not getting a crust because you used butter on a non-stick surface which was steaming the meat. If ground beef has 20% fat there is no need for butter and oils. I use butter just before I pull the patties off the grill. The best crust I ever had on a burger , was from using muster on the meat .
Nice comparison with predictable results. I probably would've gone ahead and used the metal spatula just to smash the burgers on the e-series but I'm a daredevil. Curious if skipping the butter would increase the crust on the e-series. Thanks for the vid!
What! No bacon! LOL, Just kidding. I like how the easy the cover comes off on the E series. Wish the covers would come off that easy on the regular Blackstone Groddles with covers. Some fish would be cool to see as a comparison. Thanks.
The only advantage I see with e series, is cooking inside during extreme cold conditions. Yes you could use a skillet on the stove but with the blckstone e series, there is probably more cooking surface than an average skillet.
CJ! Come on, man. How can you make a whole video comparing the Blackstones and not do a taste test? I needed to know if that crustification made a difference! You gotta taste the food if you're comparing! You let me down, CJ
I have both gas and electric also and I have done smash burgers on both. I will say it takes a little longer to cook on the electric but, you can achieve the same crust as the gas. I also press mine down with a beacon press and hold it down for 20 seconds. Thanks for the vids.
No more rust or griddle surface maintenance and super easy to clean. It’s the perfect solution for my rv.
Definitely!
I just bought an E series, and did smash burgers. I figured out, don't use butter and leave them on a bit longer. They'll get a good char without burning. The family loved them just as much as the ones from our big propane Blackstone!
Did you get the 17 or 22?
buying 22” May 6, 2022
Need butter for flavor
Pretty much as expected.
When use the electric and go to 500 then that is what you are going to get.
My blackstone on high hits somewhere around 750 to 800 and that is where the crust comes from.
The only thing I disagree with is you could have used your metal spatula to smash the burgers on the E-Series as it would not have touched the surface, no biggie the way you did it was fine just an observation.
Great vid keep up the good work!
I have the 22E . have to agree, no where close on the crispy crust. I think the bigger problem is the electric griddle doesn't stay hot once you put the meat on it. Used a laser spot temp checker around the griddle. With 6 burgers on the griddle, the temp dropped to 325 and, even with the lid down, couldn't come back up any higher. Bacon on the porch this morning (58 degrees outside) took 30 minutes to cook. Grill cooled to 280 with 8 pieces of bacon on it and didn't recover. Love the cooking surface but falls short of why I bought a blackstone griddle. Gas next time for me.
Thanks for watching
Great side by side, CJ. Predictable results, but I’d eat either one of them! LOL, “Fight me in the comments” … great line! Cheers to ya CJ 🍻🍻🍻!
Lol! Thanks brother!
It still could be good for cooking breakfast when you have a few extra people over
If you keep the burger pressed down for 30 seconds the indoor grill crusts the burgers up the same as the outdoor one. Try it.
Will do
@@CookingWithCJ did you ever try this?
Yep, thought the same. It's like using cast iron vs nonstick. You want restaurant like results and durability or home results and be careful of damaging the cooking surface. The only thing you are really gaining with the electric version is more cooking surface.
Definitely the ceramic coating. I learned when I tested a ceramic cooking pan to a cast iron pan for smash burgers. No comparison.
Cast iron is far superior to the ceramic. Ceramic sucks.
Great video CJ. Not as good as the gasser, but for folks that live in a complex that doesn't have a place to cook outdoors, like a dorm... That electric griddle is a good option. I'll bet that thing would rock some pancakes! Great video brother!
Thanks brother! Really appreciate it!
Personal preference, for sure......but I never saw the point of a "smash burger." My family loves it when I make my homemade patties with ground buffalo and mix it all up with chopped onion/jalapenos/green pepper with spices BEFORE it goes onto the grill, followed up with smoked habanero pepperjack or gouda (you know, real cheese!!!). Speaking of grills, we use a portable pellet smoker grill for all our outdoor meats. Have only used the larger E-series to make breakfast and hibachi chicken w/rice.
Nothing special about it, just a fad
Excellent video and comparison. Looking forward to more of your versus videos. As for now I am sticking with my 22" BS. I've only had it for 2 weeks and am really enjoying it. Ron
Right on! Thank you!
Brother have you tried it without the and see how they grill???
Hey man New Hampshire here! Love the channel! Love the idea of an electric griddle for the cold times in New England, may not give the exact crust a propane griddle does but they still eat just the same! I just have to wait for Walmart to get them back in stock and then I'm all over it! Thank you for sharing your video!
Awesome! Thank you!
Couple of things. The different tools used to smash the burgers was a factor. The same tool could have been used since you had paper to protect from scratches on the e series. Second you began the smashing process on the gas griddle first and took the burgers off the e series first so there was less time to develop a flavor crust of any sort. If the flavor crust is make or break just add a tidbit more butter and you won't know the difference. I get amazing flavor crust on mine but I always use a little butter no matter where I cook my meats.
I dont use butter or anything. Get amazing crust. The 80 20 meat has enough fat to cook with no problem
thanks for making the vid and saving my electric rig for breakfast and stir fry type operations> Cast iron for the win!
Appreciate you watching!
It's difficult to compare the two items as one Blackstone was meant for outside use with a high smoke point that you would not desire inside your home. Secondly, the E-Series was meant for indoor use, hence the lid is to be used to help maintain heat.
A good comparison would be a similar item from a different brand that is also electric.
Is there alot of splatter on the e series vs what there was with the ninja sizzle do you think one is better than the other?Thanks CJ!
There is if you have a lot of fat on it. I think the original steel one is better.
Thanks CJ. I have a Propane 19” PitBoss rolled steel and just picked up the 22” Blackstone E with the cart. 2 reasons / Don’t like cleaning the PitBoss and also live in Cold Michigan and love to cook in the garage. Thinking with the E I can keep that Garage door shut when it’s -10 degrees and fry that bacon on Saturday & Sunday mornings… lol / I’m a PitBoss Pellet Guy normally.
Can’t wait to play with my first Blackstone.
Right on. Stay warm out there
CJ I bought a E Series Blackstone Griddle and love it, I have a gas 22" combo charcoal grill Blackstone on my deck and you're welcome to come and pick it up, due to the condensation and rust and all the maintenance of having a gas flat too I think the Teflon coated indoor Blackstone is the bomb 💣 😀, and clean up is a piece of cake 🎂 ! I'm a new edition to your channel CJ and I'm enjoying it! Thanks! Oh you're correct it does take longer to cook on the E Series, BUT the maintenance and cleanup time is a breeze and makes up for it to me!
Right on! Appreciate it.
I use my e series for cooking fish filets and chicken tenders they come out great
Hey CJ! Have you used the Blackstone propane griddle indoors? I know it’s not recommended, but if you had proper ventilation like a good hood set full on can you use it indoors safely?
Honestly I haven’t. My smoke alarms are too sensitive. I’ve seen other do it though.
@@CookingWithCJ Thanks for your reply. Love the channel. I gotcha on your smoke alarms. They’re there for a good purpose. I realize it’s not ideal, but I’ve got a brand new propane one sitting unopened that I’ve been itching to use for months now. If my alarms go off, I think I will reconsider. They’re fairly new, so I think they’ll let me know if it’s a no go. I still have about a foot of snow on my deck, so what the heck I thought I’d ask. I guess the adage of keep on grillin’ applies here. So, fingers crossed. We’ll see what happens. Thanks, brother!
Most important message here: Crustification is key to great Smash Burger
I thought you said crucification
Maillard. **
Why didn't they use cast Iron? Is there a limitation for the electric with cast iron?
Quite revealing match up. I don't think I want something that has to be "babied" all the time. Although it should be a nice addition to the kitchen, if you are used to dealing with non stick cookware. Nicely Done. Thanks for sharing. 😎.
Thank you sir! Appreciate it.
Great comparison. Got a big kick out of your white eyes in your sunglasses 😎
Thanks much!
Agreed with you on the cheese. I hate american cheese on anything else but it's perfect on a smash burger.
I'd buy the black stone griddle for the steel top, once you have it seasoned well you get better flavored food. My opinion.
I dig the original too
Have you tried the original indoors? Or is there too much smoke? Never mind - saw your reply down below. Great vids. Very enjoyable. Indoor is my only option at the moment. Shared this channel with friends. Great stuff!
@@noahchristian6150 thank you!
@Matt Broaddus no you don’t.
Thank you for the video. Does not appear that electricity is the best option for putting a crust on. Appreciate you as always :)
Not so much. Thanks for stopping by!
I called this before you even started lol. Natural gas beats electric EVERY time. Nothing cooks like natural gas or propane. My stove is natural gas and I wouldn’t have it any other way. Cheers!
Yeah I’m all about gas cooking when I’m not making videos on my ninja foodis. Lol
I am looking at the e series because I live in an apartment complex where I cannot have a grill outside.And I do not have a deck so I gotta go with what I can get
Question how do you do a deep clean this griddle?
Please Don't forget to thumbs up.❤️
Thank you!
I’m trying to find out we’re I can buy the new grill from please tell me thanks
Yes I noticed the same thing when I made my burgers. I couldn’t get a good to sear. I think the best thing to cook on it is stuff like fish and chicken. Breakfast things. Stuff like that.
Seen Todd Toven's video and wanted a side by side and CJ does it. I had already made my mind up to wait for the 2nd generation of E-Series. W. Ky has to cold a winter for my likeing to use he original some days. As you said it has it's uses and I've seen both your video's and seen enough of your video's to know what that chuckle means.. That for the side by side.... The ring light makes the sunglasses look like you have some wild eyes...LOL Great vid.
Lol! Yeah I noticed the ring light in editing, creepy. Lol
When is the second generation coming?
thx for the compar... CJ. !! gota question for ya !! would the gasser griddle plate fit on the eseries !! ( swap ) thx :)
No problem. And I don’t think so. I wouldn’t have thought to try it.
@@CookingWithCJ would be funny if the legs fit :)
you should get an ir thermometer so you can see if its the difference in heat or surfce
Thanks just what I have been looking for. I am leaning towards a 22" and I hear that they will have an electric one out by Fall. I thought the electric wouldn't quite have the heat of gas but if it's close and the nonstick has good longevity. I guess we will have to wait and see.
Yes I’ve seen it too. I thought about waiting, but I wanted to jump on it when I could.
Have you tried the 22" E series? That's the one I want but I saw reviews that it doesn't heat evenly.. So I came to YT lol
I would love to see your take on yakisoba stir fry. It seems like a dish well-suited to the E version😁
Great idea!
Thank you for the comparison
Welcome!
I use parchment paper and the bottom of a fry pan to smash works pretty good
Definitely!
Two different beast to deal with. They want you come in your house and work with you when you have cold weather. But either burger i will eat.
Well you're not wrong about the cheese. Thanks for the vid.
Thank you!!
Looks like it would be just a big mess in the house to cool on that E-Series... What's the surface temperature after they are fully pre-heated; the E-Series seems to be lacking some heat!
500°, we LOVE ours!
Tastewise, how did they compare?
It’s like the difference between cooking on a non stick pan vs. a cast iron pan. It’s gonna be different.
I just bought a 22” e series and so far love it. My question is can you use cast iron skillet or stainless pots on it? To heat chili for burgers or beans? Don’t want to mess it up!
Hi, I’m not sure if that’s ok or not. It seems pretty much like there should be no metal on there. Not sure how the pans would affect it.
No it will scratch the coating
Accidentally hit thumbs down... 😬.. this is a great propane vs electric comparison.. very good baseline test and honestly made my decision about electric vs propane for seasonal rv camping.. I was leaning electric because of space limitations, but realized the little bit of extra space for propane will be worth it.. especially when you sit down to eat that burger knowing "it coulda been better"... thanks! Sorry for fat fingering the thumbs down... I fixed it!
All good! Thanks!
I bought my E-Series mostly to do breakfast on days when I don't feel like cooking outside due to weather or whatever reason. Thanks for the video showing the differences in the Smashburgers.
It’s a good one for breakfast for sure.
@@CookingWithCJ
It just showed up today and we're doing breakfast for dinner tonight to test it out.
Ceramic coatings can't handle high heat or they break down so that's why the electric one doesn't get as hot if they made it to get hotter the coating would break down.
Titanium ceramic can get up to 500 degrees
With the E series you have to move the juices and move the patties to dry areas. If you leave it in all the juices it steams it doesn't crust up
Thanks!
Awesome cook and a great review.
Ooooh, nice buns ! Did I mention your meat too ? Lol. Nice Comparison!
Ya baby!
Wonder how it would heat a small 10 inch cast iron skillet to make burgers and get the sear crust? Just thinking, cause I've watched them set a pan in to make gravy or even one of the grill mates? I just bought 1 for my truck for cooking on the road cause I didn't like carrying propane along
They’re pretty adamant on not putting mettle on the non-stick.
American cheese on everything I say! Great comparison video!
Thanks Ed! Cheers
You are dead on regarding American cheese on hamburgers, can't be beat!🍔
Yes!!
Thanks!
Finally someone who’s honest about it
I think the problem was with the e-series, and not getting a crust because you used butter on a non-stick surface which was steaming the meat.
If ground beef has 20% fat there is no need for butter and oils.
I use butter just before I pull the patties off the grill.
The best crust I ever had on a burger , was from using muster on the meat .
Yeah true. Shouldn’t have used the butter. Thanks for watching!
@@CookingWithCJ maybe do another video, and try it without the butter.
It would be interesting to see the result on the e-series.
Why aren’t you doing this inside the house?
Don't really remember. It was a nice day?
Hell YEAH American cheese for smash burgers my man!
So sad, was about to get one but if it does not sear/brown/ makes a crust, is a no for me😔
Thanks for the video!
Nice comparison with predictable results. I probably would've gone ahead and used the metal spatula just to smash the burgers on the e-series but I'm a daredevil. Curious if skipping the butter would increase the crust on the e-series. Thanks for the vid!
Hey thanks! And yeah probably would have been crustier without the butter.
Agreed! Add the butter when nearly done
Seems like the titanium cook surface can’t compete with cast iron. It just doesn’t have the same heat retention.
It’s definitely different.
I.
Would love to see a cheese steakdone on the e series riddle
Thank you for this video. I need the crust.....
No problem
Why doesn't Blackstone indoor electric griddle have cast iron top?
I assume it’s for smoke indoors reasons.
When I use the electric griddle the temperature goes down nearly half when I start cooking
Haven’t had that happen before. Might want to call blackstone on that one.
Hey Bud, why not try some seasoned salmon, rice and a veg
Shrimp stir fry would be awesome on the electric griddle please! ☺️
Right on! Great idea
What! No bacon! LOL, Just kidding. I like how the easy the cover comes off on the E series. Wish the covers would come off that easy on the regular Blackstone Groddles with covers. Some fish would be cool to see as a comparison. Thanks.
Lol! Thanks! I'm not a fan of fish, but I'll see what I can do. Thanks for the idea!
I'd like to see how breakfast turns out on the e series..eggs, hash browns, pancakes, sausage etc.
Great idea, thank you!
Electric doesn’t heat up as fast as the propane..Thanks for the review...
Gr8 video thanks
Just subscribed
Thanks!
Americans cheese on grilled cheese & smash burgers is the reason I keep some, also like to eat plain sometimes
Perfect for both.
Try some shrimp? Scallops? BACON!!
Yes! Thank you!
you get a good sear if you didnt use butter or oil. just dry ... give the grill more time to heat up.
Yeah good tip. Thanks
The only advantage I see with e series, is cooking inside during extreme cold conditions. Yes you could use a skillet on the stove but with the blckstone e series, there is probably more cooking surface than an average skillet.
Yeah I agree
I'd love to see a breakfast versus (eggs, bacon and pancakes on each)
I think pancakes are next up! Thanks much!
Looks yummy 😋great video
Thank you!!
American cheese is a MUST! 😃
yes!
Do bacon.
That terrible for you processed cheese is absolutely the best on smash burgers.
Yes!!
I think it would crust up fine if you just gave it another minute or two.
That looks so good! Now I want me some lol tfs. New fan here!
Awesome! Thank you!
Fight me in the comments you don't want none....lmao you don't want that smoke...thanks for the video. Where is the link for the e grill
I’m still waiting on Walmart to approve me as an affiliate so I can create the link.
Good job
Thank you!
I like my burgers thicker and medium rare. Smashing takes the goodness out.
All good
How do I get a hat?
Link in the description
I'm not ashamed of American cheese. I often use it over any other cheese for my burgers.
Yes!!
CJ! Come on, man. How can you make a whole video comparing the Blackstones and not do a taste test? I needed to know if that crustification made a difference! You gotta taste the food if you're comparing! You let me down, CJ
1000 apologies
run of the mill electric griddles start around twenty dollars and put out 1500 watts and store easier when not in use.
Carbon steel (cold rolled steel) or stainless steel is the only option. No non stick coating for me Teflon or ceramic
thanks for watching!
Don't put butter down first. You want it to stick to the flat top for the best malliard reaction
CJ I will keep watch for the link to Walmart . The stores near me still don't have the E-series griddle in stock.
Thanks!
YOU MAY CANT SCRAP WITH THE METAL SPATCH, BUT YOU COULD HAVE SMASHED FER REAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I still can't find an e-series to buy !!! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Sorry, keep trying!
@@CookingWithCJ
Yes Sir !! :)
Sautéed onions and different kinds of mushrooms and peppers and stuff
How can I bake a potato on my 17 inch Blackstone griddle?
Not sure it could be done. Too much heat from the bottom. Not enough from the top.