part 2 please ... Sag/preload /linear and progressive springs / cheats using longer travel suspension for race bikes for corner wide open throttle control / hydraulic hand controlled suspension /how different should the characteristics be between the front and rear / Rider weight and riding style suspension pointers .
@@superduked33 I got KTM fever bro , scored the ttxGP Ohlins set up for my fat 125KG NAKED ass already , and BST wheels , still aint picked up brand new bike yet cos they are fitting the Akro TI , will be after that link next . Hear from me soon .
You get an A+ for observation skills. Yes, that is a prototype - only one of its kind. Adjustable offset triple clamps and different steering stem, which I just fitted tapered roller bearings to. Brilliant. I want to change a few subtle things and then I'll be offering them to the rest of our beautiful SDR world. Exciting times to come!
Would love to see what you did on the gen2 in the rear suspension. Shock, ride height, swingarm angle... Lot's of us have non linked rear suspension and would love to hear and see your secrets. Thank you in advance!🙂
Check out my series on the Gen1 and 2 SDR. We got that bike going brilliantly. I have everything we did listed and described in that series. Numbers and all. :-)
Hey man im about to get a gen 2 Superduke, love your videos even though they mostly dont apply since i wont have linkage rear suspension. Still love it when you draw stuff on whiteboards because thats also how i like to visualize concepts like antisquat, trail, rake, all that
Can't wait for part 2. Hoping to learn a few more tricks about how to improve my bike setup like I did watching your gearing/chain length video and the effect it has on trail. My 16/40 114 setup has made a huge difference to the bike, super easy to turn in. Top notch content! 👍
@@bubsiesiegel Gen 3, the ratios for me are now perfect, I'd imagine they would be the same on the Gen 2. Regarding the trail changes, not sure how this would effect the Gen 2 as that shock is direct mount and not linkage like the Gen 3. Given how responsive the bike is at 16/40 from the stock 17/38 I feel a 15/40 would be too much for the street, probably best reserved for the track. 16/40 now makes 6th usable, SDR gearing is super tall 5th and 6th...
@@fraserduthie5853 I'll let you know how it turns out. No pun intended. I bought a 16/40 setup that I'm waiting to put on after my next track day. I may do this at the same time when I do my cartridges and shock. I'm hoping to make a video on it.
@@gabrielibarra5551 with stock 17/38 gearing my bike did 70-75mph at about 3k rpm, it was super "chuggy" with noticable vibration through the bars and the engine felt like it was struggling. For UK roads anyways at 70-75mph 6th for me felt horrible and in lower gears at the speeds I entered corners at the bike always felt 5mph out for the RPM I liked the bike at for drive out of corners. The engine just didn't feel happy... In 6th the engine didn't feel comfortable until 80-85mph at about 3700-3800 rpm With my gearing now at 16/40 the bikes engine runs alot smoother at 70 mph about 3700-3800rpm and the lower gears are better for my entry speeds. The reason I use this 3700-3800rpm as a target is that if you look at the bikes average stock dyno figures you have about 85ft/lbs at about 3700-3800rpm of the bikes max 100 ft/lbs. At 3000rpm you get about 70 ft/lbs of the bikes 100 ft/lbs, that extra 15 ft/lbs for 700-800 rpm extra is pretty noticeable. (I know each engine is different and figures will vary slightly, I'm just speaking generally these are the average stock dyno numbers). Being a Twin, the bike obviously does not lack torque it's just that the small increase in RPM gives you ALOT more throttle response and there is no 1 second delay in throttle response compared to the stock gearing where the bike "chuggs" through that 3000-3700 rpm window. The bike really starts putting down rubber at 4000+ when you have about 90% of available torque. The added bonus trail change whilst small also helps the bike turn in and stand up just that bit easier. Take this with a pinch of salt, just my experience so far. This will obviously change if you have went down the route of exhausts/remaps etc.
I truly believe your videos are good with great information, however I believe that RUclips will keep you behind as long as you say any bad words, I’m not offended at all, but I believe your videos should have a hell lot more views, just a humble opinion, great stuff buddy 👍
Definitely want to hear about your take on preload, but would also love to hear about how to select an appropriate spring based on sag and skill level. Also it seems you switched from a Mupo shock to an Ohlins one? Happy with that change?
Oh boy are you going to be happy with Part 2. Your questions and more will be covered. It's been wicked difficult to communicate some of part 2. Taken weeks actually. I'll be interested to hear back if you follow it fully brother. Yes, I switched to Ohlins. It's an experiment. Can't get anyone here to service my MUPO...
GoGo you are the Zafa of SDR please get my T-Shirt for me We have got to give this another try You know NOw how people are getting into KTM this is your opportunity to GP the WORLD! MaC
Hi...great videos...I have a gen 1 2016...now done 27000 mls, love it....one question I would like to ask, I basically understand the theory of preload and sag etc, or I think I do 🤣 and I'm always playing with cartridges and springs etc....However, it's never happened, but I've always wondered what would be the effect on the ride quality if you spent time playing, and finally fitted springs that gave you the correct sag but without needing any preload...front or rear. Just interested.
I have asked exactly the same question to several different suspension pros and come to the conclusion that I am not the only one who didn’t understand what’s actually going on here. The short answer: If your shock only has 50mm of travel total - and your seat above your axle travels 2x that (it is common to have a 2 to 1 ratio like this), and you want 30mm of sag with you in the seat - that means you want your spring to only compress 15mm with the weight of you and your bike on it. Maybe that’s 215lbs of bike (on just the rear) plus 125lbs of rider (the rest of the riders weight is on the front), so 350lbs total on the shock and spring. And since springs are measured by both force and distance (usually lbs per inch, or Newtons per mm), you would need a spring that supports almost 2x that 350lbs while only compressing 1 inch. That would be about a 650lb spring. Or about a 114N/mm spring. And a spring that strong would feel super stiff as you rode over bumps - because super strong springs laugh at little bumps that make your fillings fall out. In reality someone weighing 175lbs would be happier fitting an 85 or 90N/mm spring that compresses much farther with the same 350lbs on it. It’s really all about travel. Stiff springs can handle the same weight without traveling very far at all. Softer springs travel farther. Ideally you want a spring that handles your weight nicely, and travels almost as far as your shock can. It would take you, your motorcycle, and a circus elephant to get your 114N/mm spring to travel 50mm. Make sense?
Thanks for the info man! I'm an old guy like you that hauls ass on my 22 SDR Evo then limps around for a few days because of it. lol I want to get one of your rear height measurement reference bars. Any news on when they'll be available? Thanks.
Sorry for specific and stupid question. Trying to understand this preload... As heavier rider like me 110kg, should i upgrade to stiffer spring or can i add more preload (becouse of my weight) i comprehend that too much preload and you lose spring capacity and it doesnt damp that well on bump? Sry if typos...
Spring rate depends on the bike's compression ratio - meaning how much the shock compresses compared to the swingarm travel. On a Gen3 SDR that ratio is 2 to 1 (basically). Meaning when the swingarm moves 2, the shock moves 1. Considering that ratio, if you are on a Gen3 SDR, you would need a heavier spring to handle your heavier weight. I too am heavier, AND I am racing, so I generate a ton of force on the rear. I race with a 110 spring out back. But if I was riding on the street I wouldn't need that much of a spring. More like 100, or even a 95. I am 210, 215 sometimes. So you might love a 100. As for preload, all we use preload for is to sync our spring's travel window with our shocks travel window. That's why it's useful to set your rider sag to about 35-45mm depending on whether you are street or track. Street might be closer to 45, track closer to 35. But they're just starting points. You can always wind in a bit more or less depending on your feel and on-track or on-road experiences. The trick is choosing the right spring for your weight - because you can wind an 85 spring tight enough to give you 35mm of sag, but it will bottom while you're out there riding. Yet a 100 spring with 35mm of sag will not, because it's a stronger spring. Remember preload does NOT make a spring stronger. It simply raises or lowers the ride height. Feel free to email me off Superduked.com contact page. I am happy to help. I do it all the time. Motorcycles are people glue brother.
If I’m not racing but like spirited rides, how off are the stock springs on the Evo for my 220 lbs in gear? Am I correct in thinking the front is fine but a heavier spring would be worth the change? If so, what spring would you recommend?
Hi Eric, Ian here from UK north west, I messaged you that I just done trackday at oulton park with +10mm link plates and bike felt great, but watching your new very interesting as usual vid I'm 250lbs with suit ect, I want to keep the std suspension but change the springs f+r front is 9n/mm 51/lb/in medium spring(std) and rear says on spring 85-195f/w but doesn't say what what spring in owners manual (tech data section) I'm on std rear sprocket with +10mm link plates, how much stronger should I go f+r springs, big ask if possible but your the superduke guru Cheers ian Buy the plates guys, bike feels so much sharper even if my springs are a bit soft std with my rider weight
I am 205lbs and am currently running 105 rear spring. OEM on our bikes is 85. That rate is perfect for me if I was still in 9th grade. Well, technically I AM still in 9th grade but this is my 35th go around. Still confused but heavier now. My front springs are 1.0 on left, 1.05 on right. I have never worked with the OEM cartridges so I am not sure about where you can get springs for them. I use GP Suspension cartridges. KTM offers 85, 90, 95. Maybe with a spacer you could use someone else's springs too?
@@fetB people like you are why I take the time to make chapter markers. Some learn faster than others. So when you “get it” go to the next chapter. When you don’t “get it” stay tuned til you do. We all share this planet brother. Sooner you learn to appreciate that the less time you will spend criticizing the people trying to help you
@@superduked33 Look, dont get me wrong. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and make chapters, but you repeat a notion a millions times. You explain it like viewers have no idea what a suspension is, but you called the video debunking myths. Everyone watching this video has already seen a motorbike once in their life and likely even got a grasp of the basics of suspension set up. I mean take the travel segment. You've mentioned several times that the spring has a finite length. Yea, obviously, yet you've literally spent 5min to say just that. I dont mean offense, im just saying you could have made this video way shorter.
part 2 please ... Sag/preload /linear and progressive springs / cheats using longer travel suspension for race bikes for corner wide open throttle control / hydraulic hand controlled suspension /how different should the characteristics be between the front and rear / Rider weight and riding style suspension pointers .
Professor Go Go is in the house!😁
Finally, suspension for dummies.
I'm a dummy.
THANK YOU!
1290 SAR. Peace!
You bought the motorcycle to be happy... So let's figure out how to be happy... Hence I found your channel.. Great insights as always..
Welcome aboard!
I just bought a 3.0 Superduke , and I am glad to find your wealth of shared info , cheers from Sth Oz
You are gonna LOVE it. Good luck brother
@@superduked33 I got KTM fever bro , scored the ttxGP Ohlins set up for my fat 125KG NAKED ass already , and BST wheels , still aint picked up brand new bike yet cos they are fitting the Akro TI , will be after that link next . Hear from me soon .
haha the video before this i watched the video of Andi Burgschachner where you commentet to...little funny to me :)
@@diesunddas93 Glad you got a laugh mate 🤣
Please make more of this videos. They are so constructive and awesome to watch! Congratulations for your riding and technical skills 💪🏽
I noticed you have different triple clamps fitted than before, have you had them made? Brilliant as always.
You get an A+ for observation skills. Yes, that is a prototype - only one of its kind. Adjustable offset triple clamps and different steering stem, which I just fitted tapered roller bearings to. Brilliant. I want to change a few subtle things and then I'll be offering them to the rest of our beautiful SDR world. Exciting times to come!
Every day's a school day. Thanks Eric, looking forward to part 2.
Would love to see what you did on the gen2 in the rear suspension. Shock, ride height, swingarm angle... Lot's of us have non linked rear suspension and would love to hear and see your secrets.
Thank you in advance!🙂
Check out my series on the Gen1 and 2 SDR. We got that bike going brilliantly. I have everything we did listed and described in that series. Numbers and all. :-)
@@superduked33 Thanks! Will definitely watch 🧐😬
Hey man im about to get a gen 2 Superduke, love your videos even though they mostly dont apply since i wont have linkage rear suspension. Still love it when you draw stuff on whiteboards because thats also how i like to visualize concepts like antisquat, trail, rake, all that
In the spirit of wheelie Wednesday, maybe someday you can do a wheelie video.
Can't wait for part 2. Hoping to learn a few more tricks about how to improve my bike setup like I did watching your gearing/chain length video and the effect it has on trail.
My 16/40 114 setup has made a huge difference to the bike, super easy to turn in.
Top notch content! 👍
Very nice! What gen SDR? I am thinking of doing this to my Gen 2 soon. Either 16/40 or 15/40 like GoGo said.
@@bubsiesiegel Gen 3, the ratios for me are now perfect, I'd imagine they would be the same on the Gen 2.
Regarding the trail changes, not sure how this would effect the Gen 2 as that shock is direct mount and not linkage like the Gen 3.
Given how responsive the bike is at 16/40 from the stock 17/38 I feel a 15/40 would be too much for the street, probably best reserved for the track. 16/40 now makes 6th usable, SDR gearing is super tall 5th and 6th...
@@fraserduthie5853 I'll let you know how it turns out. No pun intended. I bought a 16/40 setup that I'm waiting to put on after my next track day. I may do this at the same time when I do my cartridges and shock. I'm hoping to make a video on it.
@@fraserduthie5853 what do you mean by unusable? Is there not much rpm difference between 5th and 6th now?
@@gabrielibarra5551 with stock 17/38 gearing my bike did 70-75mph at about 3k rpm, it was super "chuggy" with noticable vibration through the bars and the engine felt like it was struggling. For UK roads anyways at 70-75mph 6th for me felt horrible and in lower gears at the speeds I entered corners at the bike always felt 5mph out for the RPM I liked the bike at for drive out of corners. The engine just didn't feel happy...
In 6th the engine didn't feel comfortable until 80-85mph at about 3700-3800 rpm
With my gearing now at 16/40 the bikes engine runs alot smoother at 70 mph about 3700-3800rpm and the lower gears are better for my entry speeds. The reason I use this 3700-3800rpm as a target is that if you look at the bikes average stock dyno figures you have about 85ft/lbs at about 3700-3800rpm of the bikes max 100 ft/lbs. At 3000rpm you get about 70 ft/lbs of the bikes 100 ft/lbs, that extra 15 ft/lbs for 700-800 rpm extra is pretty noticeable. (I know each engine is different and figures will vary slightly, I'm just speaking generally these are the average stock dyno numbers).
Being a Twin, the bike obviously does not lack torque it's just that the small increase in RPM gives you ALOT more throttle response and there is no 1 second delay in throttle response compared to the stock gearing where the bike "chuggs" through that 3000-3700 rpm window. The bike really starts putting down rubber at 4000+ when you have about 90% of available torque.
The added bonus trail change whilst small also helps the bike turn in and stand up just that bit easier.
Take this with a pinch of salt, just my experience so far. This will obviously change if you have went down the route of exhausts/remaps etc.
Legend!
Good expierience to share, ktm sdr gen 1 getting ready for trac day in third world country 😅
Fascinating timely discussion go go thanks I need a this one.
I truly believe your videos are good with great information, however I believe that RUclips will keep you behind as long as you say any bad words, I’m not offended at all, but I believe your videos should have a hell lot more views, just a humble opinion, great stuff buddy 👍
Definitely want to hear about your take on preload, but would also love to hear about how to select an appropriate spring based on sag and skill level. Also it seems you switched from a Mupo shock to an Ohlins one? Happy with that change?
Oh boy are you going to be happy with Part 2. Your questions and more will be covered. It's been wicked difficult to communicate some of part 2. Taken weeks actually. I'll be interested to hear back if you follow it fully brother. Yes, I switched to Ohlins. It's an experiment. Can't get anyone here to service my MUPO...
GoGo you are the Zafa of SDR please get my T-Shirt for me We have got to give this another try You know NOw how people are getting into KTM this is your opportunity to GP the WORLD! MaC
Hi...great videos...I have a gen 1 2016...now done 27000 mls, love it....one question I would like to ask, I basically understand the theory of preload and sag etc, or I think I do 🤣 and I'm always playing with cartridges and springs etc....However, it's never happened, but I've always wondered what would be the effect on the ride quality if you spent time playing, and finally fitted springs that gave you the correct sag but without needing any preload...front or rear. Just interested.
I have asked exactly the same question to several different suspension pros and come to the conclusion that I am not the only one who didn’t understand what’s actually going on here. The short answer: If your shock only has 50mm of travel total - and your seat above your axle travels 2x that (it is common to have a 2 to 1 ratio like this), and you want 30mm of sag with you in the seat - that means you want your spring to only compress 15mm with the weight of you and your bike on it. Maybe that’s 215lbs of bike (on just the rear) plus 125lbs of rider (the rest of the riders weight is on the front), so 350lbs total on the shock and spring. And since springs are measured by both force and distance (usually lbs per inch, or Newtons per mm), you would need a spring that supports almost 2x that 350lbs while only compressing 1 inch. That would be about a 650lb spring. Or about a 114N/mm spring. And a spring that strong would feel super stiff as you rode over bumps - because super strong springs laugh at little bumps that make your fillings fall out. In reality someone weighing 175lbs would be happier fitting an 85 or 90N/mm spring that compresses much farther with the same 350lbs on it. It’s really all about travel. Stiff springs can handle the same weight without traveling very far at all. Softer springs travel farther. Ideally you want a spring that handles your weight nicely, and travels almost as far as your shock can. It would take you, your motorcycle, and a circus elephant to get your 114N/mm spring to travel 50mm. Make sense?
@@superduked33 Hi thanks very much for your reply...yes it does, thanks again.
Thanks for the info man! I'm an old guy like you that hauls ass on my 22 SDR Evo then limps around for a few days because of it. lol
I want to get one of your rear height measurement reference bars. Any news on when they'll be available?
Thanks.
Tonight!
@@superduked33 Maybe I'll buy serial number 001.
Sorry for specific and stupid question. Trying to understand this preload...
As heavier rider like me 110kg, should i upgrade to stiffer spring or can i add more preload (becouse of my weight) i comprehend that too much preload and you lose spring capacity and it doesnt damp that well on bump? Sry if typos...
Spring rate depends on the bike's compression ratio - meaning how much the shock compresses compared to the swingarm travel. On a Gen3 SDR that ratio is 2 to 1 (basically). Meaning when the swingarm moves 2, the shock moves 1. Considering that ratio, if you are on a Gen3 SDR, you would need a heavier spring to handle your heavier weight. I too am heavier, AND I am racing, so I generate a ton of force on the rear. I race with a 110 spring out back. But if I was riding on the street I wouldn't need that much of a spring. More like 100, or even a 95. I am 210, 215 sometimes. So you might love a 100. As for preload, all we use preload for is to sync our spring's travel window with our shocks travel window. That's why it's useful to set your rider sag to about 35-45mm depending on whether you are street or track. Street might be closer to 45, track closer to 35. But they're just starting points. You can always wind in a bit more or less depending on your feel and on-track or on-road experiences. The trick is choosing the right spring for your weight - because you can wind an 85 spring tight enough to give you 35mm of sag, but it will bottom while you're out there riding. Yet a 100 spring with 35mm of sag will not, because it's a stronger spring. Remember preload does NOT make a spring stronger. It simply raises or lowers the ride height. Feel free to email me off Superduked.com contact page. I am happy to help. I do it all the time. Motorcycles are people glue brother.
@@superduked33thx for help. Wacthed part 1& 2 again, and its really well explained. I get the idea now.
If I’m not racing but like spirited rides, how off are the stock springs on the Evo for my 220 lbs in gear? Am I correct in thinking the front is fine but a heavier spring would be worth the change? If so, what spring would you recommend?
Hi Eric, Ian here from UK north west, I messaged you that I just done trackday at oulton park with +10mm link plates and bike felt great, but watching your new very interesting as usual vid I'm 250lbs with suit ect, I want to keep the std suspension but change the springs f+r front is 9n/mm 51/lb/in medium spring(std) and rear says on spring 85-195f/w but doesn't say what what spring in owners manual (tech data section) I'm on std rear sprocket with +10mm link plates, how much stronger should I go f+r springs, big ask if possible but your the superduke guru
Cheers ian
Buy the plates guys, bike feels so much sharper even if my springs are a bit soft std with my rider weight
@@bryansuperduke1290r cheers Bryan I think ktech do stronger springs I'll get in touch
@@1301ktm Only up to 95, I fitted one 2 weeks ago.
I am 205lbs and am currently running 105 rear spring. OEM on our bikes is 85. That rate is perfect for me if I was still in 9th grade. Well, technically I AM still in 9th grade but this is my 35th go around. Still confused but heavier now. My front springs are 1.0 on left, 1.05 on right. I have never worked with the OEM cartridges so I am not sure about where you can get springs for them. I use GP Suspension cartridges. KTM offers 85, 90, 95. Maybe with a spacer you could use someone else's springs too?
@@superduked33 OK thanks for the info
@@superduked33 James put 7mm preload spacers on my front forks as said 10s would be too much on the road.
Where did you get the 105 rear spring?
I’m never gonna meet MJ 😭
😂
you could have made this video 5min long. You repeat everything a million times...
I'm sorry for whatever you're going through brother. If there's anything I can do to help you please reach out.
@@superduked33 yes, make the video shorter. Thank you
@@fetB people like you are why I take the time to make chapter markers. Some learn faster than others. So when you “get it” go to the next chapter. When you don’t “get it” stay tuned til you do. We all share this planet brother. Sooner you learn to appreciate that the less time you will spend criticizing the people trying to help you
@@superduked33 Look, dont get me wrong. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and make chapters, but you repeat a notion a millions times. You explain it like viewers have no idea what a suspension is, but you called the video debunking myths. Everyone watching this video has already seen a motorbike once in their life and likely even got a grasp of the basics of suspension set up.
I mean take the travel segment. You've mentioned several times that the spring has a finite length. Yea, obviously, yet you've literally spent 5min to say just that.
I dont mean offense, im just saying you could have made this video way shorter.