New Wago 221 Inline Connector That EVERYONE is Talking About - And One Thing Nobody Talks About
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- Опубликовано: 7 апр 2023
- In this video I take a look at the new Wago 221 In Line connector that has been anticipated for quite some time. For such a small device there is quite a bit to learn about it. I will go over what these are, how they are used, and where they might be best used.
🧰 Products In The Video 🧰
Wago 221-2411 In Line Connector Up To #14 Wire amzn.to/3uygGXQ
Wago 221-2401 In Line Connector Up To #12 Wire amzn.to/43fXfQ1
Wago 221 Original Assortment Pack: amzn.to/3KnYdSH
Small Wago 221 Original + Inline Pack: amzn.to/3nRKAm1
Large Wago 221 Original + Inline Pack: amzn.to/3miTN6C
Waterproof Butt Connectors: amzn.to/4196K1w
🎥 Related Videos 🎥
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Have you used these yet? Pretty nifty for certain installs I think.
Yep just got mine delivered from Amazon. Going to use them for chandelier wiring
I bought the #12 version and they work great for extending short wires or in cluttered boxes.
I have been using WAGO for the past 5 years especially with converting existing fluorescent lights to LED.
I have about a hundred of them throughout my home.
When I rewired my 1950 home I used Wagos in all my jboxes. When I did my panel swap I ended up using an inline to extend a couple of the neutral wires. 5 years later and I've NEVER had an issue.
The 221s are rated for 32A, you’re looking at the Japanese ratings. 221s are available in 12AWG or 14AWG maximum versions, so you’re comparing two different sizes. For extending wires I’d recommend the push fit WAGOs, they’re even smaller, the lever ones are only necessary if you’re dealing with stranded conductors.
Yes, check video at 4:15, it shows the US rating is 32 amps on left side.
There are IEC/EN(32A) and UL(20A) ratings printed. Neither is a japanese rating.
@@danielrose1392 Wrong. 20A rating is for PSE JET which are Japanese.
In addition to what the other commenters have said, the maximum sizes for are 10awg (221-61*) and 12awg (221-41*) not 12 and 14
Also, 32 amps at 450 volts.
I used the Wago inline connector for a ceiling fan with light connections in a pancake box. Worked great.
I just did a project with these connectors and they are excellent. I used the inline splices and also the side by side in various sizes up to 5X conductors.
For wet locations (low voltage, 12Vdc) I use Gardner Bender Ox-Gard or similar dielectric grease squirted into the connector before inserting the wire. I’ve used this technique on several trailers and garden equipment and never had any issues. I’m sure any grease will work but the small hole in the squeeze tubes makes squirting the grease into the connector very easy.
Discovered the inline version from your video. Love them. Used them to replace a couple broken plastic connectors in my car.
I didn't watch the full video but one thing I always say about these connectors is that you can use a pinch action with finger and thumb in one hand to open the connector. Absolutely brilliant when reaching into a tool belt and open the connector as your getting one from the pouch. If your fitting 30 or 40 of these when moving a distribution board or even up a set of steps... that simple pinch action to open them saves serious time!
I just discovered the Wago and am using them in my new garage build. I LOVE THEM. Also, as a model railroader, the in-line Wagos are going to be a great product, especially for module connections. 2, 4, and 6 port in-line would be fantastic.
There are cheap Chinese ones that have several inline connections. Should be fine for low voltage. I wouldn't trust them for house AC wiring. Genuine WAGOs are already inexpensive, can't be much profit or savings in counterfeits or versions that aren't trying to be fake WAGO.
One thing I love to use Wagos for is bench testing, theyre great for tempory connections to check funcionality, and ive used them to connect meter probes to check continuity on items like float switches to check that they do open/close the circuit
Uuu777u7 up 77😢
I bought a pack of these about a month ago thinking it looked like something that could come in handy sometime. Little did I know that a few weeks later they would save my butt! I had some defective wiring and had to cut off power to an entire circuit. Unfortunately that circuit also included the bathroom. Using the Wago 221 I was able to put together a splice in just minutes that allowed me to keep the bathroom powered while I made repairs. During the process I had to re-configure the connection a few times which was as easy as a flip of the levers.
A very nice, thorough explanation of the Wago connectors! Thanks so much!!! Well worth a subscribe. 😁
Thanks, these tips are very helpful for the amateur home electrician.
You are very welcome! Really glad to hear you liked it. Thanks a lot for the feedback!
These are great for splicing wires and extending short wires. You just can't beat the space savings.
Great video on the WAGO Inline Connectors!
Well done!
Thanks, I just ordered these. My den is wired with 12 gauge, but the line coming in to the room is 14 gauge. I've been using the regular 221's for a couple of years now and they're great. Especially the inline connectors which are useful where an older home might have short or metal fatigued wires in the box leaving a short wire when it breaks.
Traditional wagos also have the cutout for sticking a probe. It's on the back side, opposite to the inlet for wires. But these in-line splices are definitely a nice to have item.
I appreciate you doing these videos on the WAGOs - your in depth look at these through several videos greatly helped me doing some wiring fixes and additions to my house which was built in 1952 and while all the electrical is still in good shape, like many older homes there aren't enough outlets, lights, etc. Having the option to use WAGOs especially as you mention for extending wires that are too short. I've used that trick a bunch with WAGO connectors. They also make adding additional overhead lights from another light already on a switch (and the mixing of stranded adn solid). Thanks again!
For ceiling light fixtures I have been using the WAGO 224 series (112 and 101) connectors for years. Shorter than the new 221 inline and they handle the stranded wire of the fixture very well. Also the 224-112 allows you to connect two neutral wires or just one, as required, still in the small package.
Yes indeed they're super compact and come in different variants, making light-fixture installation much easier, no more awkwardly balancing lamps while dealing with screw connectors. They were the first ones I've been using regularly since the older wago terminal blocks sometimes were just to big for junction boxes around here and i rather used the old VDE doly connectors there.
Also, if you're trying to hold up a light fixture in one hand and connect wires with the other one while your mother is standing worriedly at the base of the ladder wondering if her son is going to electrocute himself, despite said son being a grown-ass middle-aged man, it's a lot faster to hook up Wagos than traditional wire nuts. Hypothetically speaking.
Thanks for the info. I can use both variations for different projects.
You are very welcome! Really glad to hear you liked it. Thanks a lot for the feedback!
Very helpful. Great info, thank you for sharing.
I ordered a large assortment through your link. Thanks for the information.
So glad you directed me to this video. So I apparently want to use a butt connector because even if the wires are safe inside a 1/2" conduit maybe some condensation drips down the wires and hits the WAGO. So I have to follow with the butt connectors, or what I have been calling the Crimp/Shrink.
one other thing to bear in mind, if not already obvious, Wagos work great with DC too just derate the voltage somewhat but current rating should be good. I'm constantly using these for DC power and AC test cables. They are also useful for safely terminating an unused CPC connection (no earth needed on double insulated stuff ... In UK/Europe anyway)!
Hey, thanks for explaining between the two inline models! I have 12g wire and didn't realize I needed the 2401! They're on the way now, in time for a project next week.
You don't. 221s can do 12g
@TheChipmunk2008 Yes and no. 221s are a family of different connecters but you then have different models of the 221. In the in lines there is the 221-2401 and the 221-2411. The 221-2411 can only handle up to 14 gauge wire. The 221-2401 can handle 14 gauge as well with a max at 12 gauge. So there is a difference.
Both are awesome for me in HVAC. Makes wiring WAY easier to read and cleaner looking.
I had an accident last November that resulted in me not being able to use my right index finger for ~4 months. I had to add another light to a hallway and from watching your videos I decided to change from wire nuts to the Wago connectors. I couldn’t twist wire nuts, but the Wago connectors clicked easily. Thanks for the info and insight into this handy, easy to use connectors.
we started using these Wago connectors at work for small projects... (haven't used any inline ones yet) one thing I would love to see is a version of these devices that are safe to use with Aluminum wire for safely updating old outlets in houses that have aluminum wiring from the 70's to save money back then... any ideas here? the purple wire nuts are stupid expensive and very messy. Also worth mentioning... most of my aluminum wire on 20A circuits is 10 AWG wire so they wouldn't work with the standard 221 type connectors anyway...
1 good thing Wago connectors are good at is testing automotive electrical conations before soldering them or crimping them. with the Wago connectors you can easily reverse the mistakes.
Timely info. May tackle a fee projects and didn't know about the gauge difference
These things are absolutely brilliant.
I use those for car stereo installations and so far they are great!
That is down right lazy. Solder and/or butt connectors. These are meant for static environments not one where they move around with ever turn and bump. I installed emergency equipment for years as a teen. Taking shortcuts is dangerous and foolish.
@@nhbountyhunter Try it. You will be glad you did.
electrician, didnt know about these, ill be buying them through your link thanks
I’m a diy’er and started using these connectors recently. I hate to sound corny, but these things might be the best thing since sliced bread.
Great Video. Thank you for sharing
You are welcome. Really glad to hear you liked it. Thanks a lot for the feedback!
I like it. Thanks for the info.
I have been an electrical contractor since 1994…. Wago’s work great
Really appreciate the professional feedback Brian!
I like them, not having to bend the wires is nice
Thank you for the video
I far prefer the 32A rated 18-12 AWG inline WAGOs to the less robust version, but it should be noted that the wire receivers are still a bit smaller than on the 20-10 AWG 30A non-inline WAGO. So, for example, I have lots of stranded wires of various gauges and lengths that I reuse constantly for various projects and I have ferrules on them to keep the copper from becoming a mess. Even though WAGOs can take stranded wire, ferrules are really convenient when messing around. The 12 gauge ferrules that still fit into the 30A non-inline WAGO don't fit into the 32A inline WAGO.
Note that with big enough wire, you can put a single piece of heat-shrink around the entire WAGO inline connector, too, from end-to-end, and seal the whole thing up.
One thing I found replacing old fixtures in my house, is that the original installers used wire nuts to connect the stranded wire from the fixture to the solid house wiring, and for quite a few of them the stranded wire had become extremely loose. I started replacing the wire nuts on all the fixtures after I tracked down one where the bulbs (even LED bulbs) kept failing and flickering due to that problem.
Can these only be used in a box or can they be used in an attic without a box?
@@bobbygetsbanned6049 All wire splices should always be done inside boxes or fixtures. Never have wire splices just laying bare on the framing in the attic or anywhere else. Wrapping with electrical tape doesn't count as a box either.
There are boxes made specifically for this purpose. You should be able to find various videos on how to safely run wiring through an attic or basement.
@@junkerzn7312 Yeah I was wondering because they used to sell splices rated to not be used with a box, but apparently they took them off the market. These are not a replacement for those apparently.
@@bobbygetsbanned6049 do you remember what they were called? It sounds super interesting and I’d like to try to research them.
@@SquishyZoran No but if you google "in wall romex splice" you can find one made by Tyco. I think there were other brands too.
One thing I always thought would be nice to have would be connectors where 2 (or more) go in one side and 1 out the other side-- I find myself having to do a nearly 180 bend in one of my wires when wiring outlets, for instance.
They do exists and I love them
Look at the Wago 224 series
I used something similar for a Infared panel, to adapt solid core to Flexible [which is then connected to a LD20 connector that sits between the wires]
Reason I used a LD20: because if I need to remove the panel, its easier to remove. than having to hold the panel and remove the wago's. since you just need to disconnect the LD20 connector.
Can you use this to connect a broken capacitor wire back together. Due to the nature of its location the wire vibration on the chassis opened it up shorting out generator. Capacitor is for small Thomas model 2755 compressor 220v . Cap rated for 15uF. Any suggestions would be great.
I have to extend 14-gauge Romex for a few feet as part of a renovation project. Can I just use three inline connectors to splice the three conductors together or do I have to use a junction box?
I’ve been using these for a few months now. Definitely have saved me a couple of times.
Very helpful. Thanks
You are very welcome! Really glad to hear you liked it. Thanks a lot for the feedback!
just bought a heap of these I am replacing 12 downlights and a track light , getting rid of the transformers and just connecting the wires to the down light wires that come with a plug which I am cutting off .I will tape around the connection as well just in case.
I think you could make them waterproof just by using shrink tubing, and if you want to go the extra mile, you can apply silicone to the inside of the shrink tubeing 😊
Can you use this to connect dissimilar wires? Many lighting fixtures are coming with aluminum wires (including the ground) and the house wires are usually copper. If you can do this, do you need to add any substance to the wire(s)? Thanks.
In a wet environment use a marine crimp which has the heat shrink but also a heat activated sealant inside. A heat shrink is not going to prevent water intrusion.
Thanks, a lot of help.
You are very welcome. Really glad to hear you liked it. Thanks a lot for the feedback Harry!
While Wagos may be pricey, let's not forget that they are reusable and don't require retrimming the wires upon disassembly.
I would think these are perfect for temporarily work like staging/holiday displays/jobsite/theatre, etc.
In the UK they're considered as "maintenance free" so can be buried in plaster etc. (as long as they're in a box) as permanent connections, if we used wire nuts (which we don't) they would never be approved as maintenance free and so access would be required to them.
@@mfx1, so noted, although all connections of any kind must be readily accessible here in the States.
I love the progression of electrical inventions. It makes it way more confident for old DYI'ers like myself!
Appreciate the input!
Unfortunately, america has been held back for too long on newer things like these. We still allow wire nuts when most modern countries abandon them years ago. Wago style connections are normal in a lot of countries and have been for decades. I dont know when it happened, but it's nice to see these getting attention here.
Innovation? Take a second look on how many years they are already used in other countries already. :D But for the completly outdated US installations they are a big step forward, yes.
Can you give us use case with each of these wago?? Some I’ve seen would need a 4 connector just for an outlet.
Scenario was a T out from the wire run to the receptacle so that you have continued power even if the receptacle goes out? Why is this type of run not standard? So one for the hot side, the bench to the receptacle the branch back to complete receptacle circuit and the line to continue the run
Some homes, built in the 70s, used 12 ga Aluminum in 15 amp circuits instead of 14 gauge copper. (These homes still used 12 ga copper in 20 amp circuits. All of which met code at the time,) Can Wago connectors be used with Aluminum? Aluminum rated receptacles and switches are usually labeled and are also compatible with copper. Aluminum devices, typically, have only screw terminal connection capability and do not have "back stabbing" or other quick wiring capabilities.
That looks useful.
Good video. Thank you. Do you recommend wrapping them with electrical tape to make sure they do not accidently open?
the is not in the instructions, so NO
I would say no.
I thought the same thing to help prevent accidently opening the lever.. however, the adhesive nature of tape could actually open it if the tape starts to come undone.
All that said, I am not an electrician, so maybe someone with more knowledge could correct/verify.
I love to use them as fidget
do these have to have a sealed junction box when splicing a connection that is hidden behind sheetrock in USA?
When used, must they be used inside a junction box?
Yes!!!! Just like a wire Nut
The 221-2411 is approved up to 4 square millimeters in Europe. That would actually correspond to AWG 12.
But this one only got approval up to AWG 14 in the US.
The 221-2401 got approval for AWG 12, or 4 mm2.
The 221-2411 is AWG 14 or 4mm2
Yes, I noticed the same thing. Very strange.
There is also a bigger one available, e.g. the 221-612
I have rarely seen the line connector with the white insert in Europe,
but these seem to be preferred in the US.
Always helpful information. Thank you.
You are very welcome! Really glad to hear you liked it. Thanks a lot for the feedback!
If you think these are great check out the Wago 224-112 and the Wago 2273-203. I have been using the 2273-203 in my house to pigtail to the aluminum wiring. I wasn't a fan of the purple wire nuts and the Alumiconns take up too much space in the boxes.
Wagos are not rated for any aluminum conductor.
Alumiconns have the anti-oxidizer, which the Wagos don't. Alumiconns also have torque specs, which is impossible with the Wago. I wouldn't use these on aluminum wiring.
@@Chris-ek4jn if you look up that series of Wago connector, it's rated for Aluminum. They also have an antioxidant that goes on the Wago.
Thanks!
You are very welcome. Glad you liked it. Thanks a lot for the feedback and the Super Thanks Pat!
Very nice
Tried to use Wago on aluminum wiring.. didn’t grip tightly enough; kept slipping out. Went back to wire nuts.
What is a good way to secure the levers? Wrap a piece of electrical tape around it?
So the next version should be like the side-by-side 221, except with one of the sides reversed.
Concerning how easy it is to flip the lever on one version, I wonder if it is as easy when it is grabbing a wire? Does it vary by the gauge of the wire? I would expect yes to both, with the heavier wire resulting in a somewhat tighter level.
I would love to see that. 4 and 6 connector units, with one side reversed would make wiring positioning extremely convenient.
Always fascinating to see how Americans can get excited about decades-old technology ... 🤷♂
These have to be in a junction box when used still as wire nuts do to be legal?
Any splice in a structure has to be in some form of a junction box. Whether that is a true junction box, receptacle box, switch box, etc.
can these be used in Automotive engine bays? what's the heat tolerance? thanks.
No. They are not rated for weather, and all kinds of moisture exists under the hood.
Probably not due to water intrusion.
To be fair, I have used these in outdoor light fixtures... but seal the hell out of the box with monkey shit.
I have used them in "under dash" applications. Works great.
Always think it's crazy how americans describe Wago connectors as a DIY solution for low current applications, when in reality they are objectively superior to wire-nuts in every way.
Except cost. They cost about 3-5x as much as wire nuts in bulk.
I NEVER trusted Wire Nuts unless they’re set in epoxy.
What I don't get, is, why they always only talk about the more expensive lever wagos. I would assume that most installations are made with solid wire connections, no matter if in the US or the EU -- and for those are the cheaper push in wagos better suited anyway. I use the ones with the levers only when stranded wires are involved in any way.
Not all Americans refer to them as DIY. Only the dumb Americans who don't want to change their old school ways.
Dumb and sensational videos are easy to push around.
EU here - yep, wago is nice, so is crimped connectors, so is push-in.
Can these be used in case of older wiring where the ground has been cut short?
Like when replacing ungrounded outlet with a ground one but the ground was cut short in the original wiring.
If you are asking if these can be used to extend a short ground wire in a box yes they can be used for that.
My ex had a pro move her main panel and he used push connectors (no lever) in an empty box. If he would have used the thru connector version, it would be a lot cleaner.
I'm currently planning on removing 2 fuse boxes and upgrading service from 60a to 125 (200 would be overkill, esp now with all LED lights and higher efficiency appliances. etc). I'll be using push only connectors for the circuits that are THHN and levers for the old cloth/rubber wires that will be replaced later. All the EMT and ridged conduit will remain and the current 2 boxes will remain for this phase (both puns intended) of the project.
Anyone prefer another brand over the Wago?
The 2773 is a bit smaler but a push in connector for solid wire. If you miss something, write them and if it is a cool feature they'll develop something😉
They’ve had failure issues recently where they get pull out due to the latch door opening partially when putting in the box
I white 3M tape WAGOs shut w 1" long strips.
These are great for very small gauge wires as they are able to accept wires down to 0.2mm2 - the red butt crimp connectors are 0.5mm2 minimum and struggle with thin wires
They are rated 32A you are looking at the PSE Japaneese rating
If I were using the inline ones where there was any chance the wires would be pulled, I'd want to rotate the connector end-to-end, so the wires fold over to run alongside the body, leaving in the opposite direction s of insertion Then, secure them with zip ties.
Those heat seal butt connectors that you showed are only for STRANDED copper, NOT solid. So they aren’t an adequate substitution.
That would be great for a light switch to connect the 2 neutral wires together
Side by side work fine for this, they fold neatly into the back of the box if you plan/bend it right. Push connectors are all you need. Tape the Wagos with levers if you have a tight space because those levers WILL get bumped and lifted.
Wagos are good for connecting lights or for pigtailing receptacles that you know will be upgraded (adding USB or a light)
They need to make a waterproof in line. Auto mechanics would love them.
Great explanations
Or or maybe your lowering a ceiling fan by 4 foot with a longer stem but you need to extend the wires in the tube!
I think they are a great option. I am amazed at how they have done such a poor job with the model numbers (series and sub series) of the different parts. It is like they ran out of numbers to use. What does 221 stand for? Amperage (nope), size class (nope), gauge range (nope), number of wires (nope).
221 is the series number. Just like 223 for the grey plastic models or 773 for the back-stabs, etc. It's arbitrary but not so confusing once you get used to it.
Maybe you can tear one of these apart and show how these are making a lot better metal-to-metal contact than the device on a back-stab outlet.
You know what, that’s a great suggestion. Going to add it to the list. Thanks!
Big Clive already did a video on that. Search YT for "Big Clive Wago" and you'll see it.
@@HowToHomeDIY At that point, if you could get your hands on a European socket with a push-button-release push-fit connection and compare it to the two, that'd be great. People too often mix them up with back-stabs in yt comments, not realising those use different mechanisms.
Are those crimp connectors rated for solid wire? In fact, are they NEC compliant at all?
Yes
These would be Great for Model Railroading as wire sizes can differ..
That's a really good idea, wouldn't have thought of that
Would like to see Wago make AWG 10 straight connectors more readily available in their assortments.
Agree. I'm planning to install a manual transfer switch and the inline connectors will work great and keep my main panel looking clean. An AWG10 size inline would be helpful. I wonder if WAGO reads these comments?
One Omission: You neglected to mention the stripping guide on the side of these connectors.
Can wagos be used with aluminum wire?
Not 221 series, but 222 and 2273 can, provided you use the contact paste. But it's just what wago advertises. I don't see a reason why 221 should be a problem.
You dont need to Open the Wago if you use it with Solid core wire. You can Push it in Even if the wago is closed. This obviously don’t work with stranded wire :)
When I look at these I feel like they would be great for car stereo installation where your splicing a harness to a radio. Thoughts??
On their product page they mention speaker wiring as a potential application.
They're not rated for high-vibration environments, as the spring holding the wire in could bounce. But for a car stereo, I wouldn't worry. But I'd fold the power wire over the connector and throw a zip tie on it, shorting that one to ground can be nasty.
@@HenryLoenwind Yeah, the key would be to prevent the wires from twisting in the connector because they can pop out that way, just like in Wago's backstabs.
I'm curious, however: Is your intention to use these for splicing line level? Speaker level? Power?
@@Hermiel I ended up going a different route. I was thinking of using them to splice harness to new head unit
Can you get heat tubing big enough to go over a Wago? 😇
I saw a video that put heat-shrink tubing around an inline 221.
20Amps in JET certifications (which is in Japan), ENEC (in Europe) and UL (for USA) certified them for 32 Amps for the ones fitting AWG 24-12,
For Europe at least, they're certified to handle more amps than the wire connecting, as the max wire size that fits, 4mm^2 (I guess it's AWG 12), would handle a max of 25Amps
you can actually get them in a bigger size for AWG 20-10, which are certified for 41 Amps (ENEC and UL)
they do look helpful for short wires and stranded to solid in light fixtures that is annoying that they made one not capable of handling 12-gauge wire though don't all the regular 221 connectors handle 12 why doesn't this one?
It's a less expensive alternative for people that don't need it. If you need to connect only 14s, no need to spend the extra $$.
WAGO 221-2411 AWG 18-14 Inline connector.
They make an inline connector for 12 GA.
WAGO 221-2401 AWG 18-12 Inline connector.
It's so that the whole thing occupies the same volume as the side-by-side connectors do. You can observe that the levers on the in-line connector are shorter, and therefore a lower force can be used to press the terminals together, otherwise it would be very hard to open it up. This limits the displacement of the metal plates and therefore the difference of wire gauge that can be held securely.
I need the WAGO Inline Connector for 10 gauge, 30 Amps.
Can you only have 1 wire in each of the holes?
Yes
@@HowToHomeDIY okay... Well at least I know what I have with a standard dobbelt skrew muff.
In the UK wirenuts were banned 50 years ago as they tended to fall off over time with the electrical vibration. You had to be vigilant to ensure when you pushed them into the back of the box that they were vertical.
Electrical vibration? How does it occur without an inductor?
@@Britishfurryrectifiersucker You have forgotten electricity is ac
both say 450V / 32A at the top-left of the printing
That is not for the US. Wago has put out press releases about it. I showed in the video on the Wago what it says.
@@HowToHomeDIY ah… interesting to know. Now the question is, why something that woks in the EU with no issues couldn’t work in the US ?
So the largest wire size available to use in them is 12 gauge wire. In the US 12 gauge wire is rated for 20 amps so that is why it is listed at 20 amps for the US. At least that’s the reasoning I found through Wago and it does make sense.
@@HowToHomeDIY oh I see.
Over here, we can use 2.5mm^2 (a tad smaller than 13AWG) for 20A.
4mm^2 (tad smaller than 11AWG) is authorized up to 25A.
Wondering where I can buy these around omaha ne because menards didn't have them??
I can only find them on Amazon. I have links to them all in the video description.
Digi-Key also sells them.
The Home Depot in my town has them.
@@bill_p2074 Really?? I wish mine did!
@@HowToHomeDIY me and the guy that works in the electrical dept (his name is Bill too) were talking about them Friday.