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What do I think? You couldn't have made this any more confusing if you'd tried, if it wasn't for you flat out saying at the end that the Wago lever nuts are safe to use I wouldn't have known, as if things weren't vague enough you change the parameters of the test at the end moving the lines on your chart and all of the sudden it's "Gee, I thought I was lost before, now I'm really lost", because what exactly does that mean? Were the results in the first place invalid? If not then why were things changed? Does the second set of results more closely resemble real world use? If so why the first set of results? If not then why the second set? Thanks for clearly stating at the end that Wago's are safe, I've often wondered why and that's based on the area of contact the wires have inside the Wago coupled with the notorious push in type outlets and them being known to fail, the two designs being similar and all, but if you wouldn't have just plain stated they're safe at the end I wouldn't have known, and I wasn't about to watch this 4 or 5 times to sort things out so I could figure out your conclusions.
The wago lever nuts are tested to European and German standards, and they are good standards for safety. While it may have slightly higher resistance due to the busbar arrangement, it is far less likely to experience user error and a poor connection in a DIY situation. The locations I use these most are for light fixtures, which have low draw. Good demonstration and good data. That was a well designed experiment. Thanks for putting it out there!
@@feelingtardy make that "a bunch of decades". The lever connectors may be newer, but we have used their predecessors for ages. I used the first one when my parents built their house in the early 80s. Wire nuts are legal here, but nobody even considers them for anything beyond low voltage / low current applications. They may have one or two advantages, but they have far too many disadvantages.
Would be nice if they sold a version with a beefier busbar for less resistance. I can see how this could cause issues if run in series over 10± recepticles. That last one might have significant voltage drop to harm sensitive electronics.
@@aaronlandry3947 there is no reason for this. The voltage drop is within code requirements and far smaller than the allowable fluctuations in power lines, and right now I can think of no electrical device that is THAT kind of sensitive to the voltage of its power supply.
I'm a licensed electrician. I've been working for 25 years. I've used Wagos for most of that time. We've used them in residential, commercial and industrial conditions. Lighting retrofits, new home construction, remodels, and pretty much everything including high amp loads. I've been back to some of those jobs months or years later for various reasons and been back inside some of the boxes with the Wagos installed. None were melted. All were perfectly fine. I've never had to go back to a job because of a problem with the Wagos. They have been used in Europe for decades. They are tested to German standards. They are UL approved. And this test also shows that fears of Wagos being unsafe are unfounded. They are just fine. They are not a problem at all. I understand why some are skeptical but Wagos are perfectly safe. I have them in my home wiring. Wagos are also clear so you can see how the wires are seated inside the device. You can't do that with wire nuts. You can't see inside to verify the wires are correctly seated. Wagos are also easier for a DIY to get right.
I've had wirenuts melt on me, mostly because the twisting mechanism on an old wire to a new wire can result in the old wire being damaged and cause arcing / higher resistance. In the instance where the wirenut melted on me before, a wago nut more than likely would have prevented it because it would of been less likely to damage the old wiring.
Your another one who thinks everytime those things fail your going to get a phone call. Ive seen melted down ones and intermittent connections and wires falling out of them. The levers open when you push them into a box or with vibration over time.Burned and black. If wirenuts are applied properly and wires twisted right they never fail. If wagos are applied properly they do fail. Nothings better than a copper to copper mechanical connection . Not a double spring contact resistor where the conductors dont even meet.
@@RadioRich100 I use the push on Wagos, not the lever ones. They are just as safe as wirenuts and you can see into them and tell if the connection is good. I've seen far more melted wirenuts.
finally an Aamerican electrician who isn't retarded. My home is 1972, metal boxes, no leeway with wire lings, twisted wires are f***ing nightmare in remodels. Anyone still twisting wires loves bud light.
I had a gas furnace blower fan that used traditional wire nuts. The unit would blow a slow blow fuse about once a year since the day it was new. Then one day the slow blow fuse blew instantly. After some examination, found 2 of the traditional wire nuts that had been installed new with the furnace in 2010, (which by that time was 2017 so only 7 years old) had melted completely through each other and they were shorting/making contact with each other and it was black/charred and the plastic was melted away. Carefully wired it with traditional wire nuts 6 years ago and have not needed any more fuses, but I was very diligent about separating each of the wire nuts so they were not making contact with each other in the box. I was very disappointed in the insulating capability of the original wire nuts but now seeing this video I wonder if it was a heat problem all along. So I wonder that if a traditional wire nut can melt in that application, I would be reluctant to go with a WAGO knowing that it's just a little bit more sensitive to melting. Edit: maybe not more sensitive to melting but rather seems to cause the connection to run just a tad hotter.
I want to clarify something Scott keeps saying which is a little misleading (and that is Wago's fault): Wago 221 lever nuts are a FAMILY of products with different current ratings and gauges of wire. The ones Scott is using are the 221-41X side of the family which are rated at 20A/300V. The X represents the number of conductors, so 221-415 is a 5-wire Wago. Now the misleading part: there are different Wago 221s for higher current applications up to 30A/300V and supporting conductors from 20-10 AWG. If you need Wagos for higher current circuits then those are what you need, and they are available in 221-612, 613, and 615 sizes. Sadly, no inline splice connector in the higher range yet.
We use the Ideal connector on our projects everyday we are using them to run low wattage AC motors around 60 watt each. With hundreds of installations we have not had any issues yet!! God willing I hope it stays that way!!
You read my mind. After seeing you recommend Wago numerous times in your videos, I still hesitated when it came to my projects. “But the resistance is higher with the Wago; it’s safer to stick to wire nuts,” I told my self. Well, not any more! Thanks to your well-planned and well-run demonstration, I no longer have any hesitation. This is what I love most about your channel: you don’t just reach conclusions about different methods or parts, you take the time and effort to break them down and test them. Excellent work, yet again.
@@RadioRich100 I've employed my share of tradespeople for work on a few homes over the decades. To say that handymen know nothing is wrong. Though they may have less experience in 1 specific field, a good handyman can often do a better overall job if they have experience in many different trades. I've found that a person who only focuses on 1 field, say an electrician, can often be a bit timid about making changes to plumbing, a heat duct, or drywall that might be in the way. Sure, if I want an electrical service change then I'll call an electrician. But, if I want to widen a closet door that might involve changes to framing, drywall, a receptacle, and a water pipe then I'd rather hire 1 good handyman than 3 specific tradespeople. And the end result would likely be better.
@@RadioRich100 Although I've seen videos from some very knowledgeable electricians (such as Mike Holt in the USA and John Ward in the UK), I've also seen seen electricians make videos with dubious comments about Wago connectors as well. This was just one short video and I thought that it was well done. And it is not as if electricians are designing these products at companies such as Ideal and Wago. I expect that instead they mostly employ people such as material scientists, electrical engineers, mechanical engineers, test engineers, statisticians, physicists and the like. If you are suggesting that only an electrician with several years experience should comment on these topics then I don't accept that. I expect that over the coming years there will be a lot more smart devices being integrated into our electrical systems, which electricians will be ill prepared to handle only by themselves. So, more people can be expected to be tinkering with electricity and we will need devices that can better accommodate people whose area of experience varies.
@Jason Dragon these things are not smart or better or just as good. There faster and will cause points of failure as time goes on. Why do think wagos are banned in so many places?
2:41 I have the same IR camera and something you should be aware of is the the surface material you’re measuring will definitely affect the temperature value shown. The factor is called emissivity and needs to be taken into account. Shiny or polished surfaces have very different values than dull or matte ones. You should be aware of this when comparing temperatures. Tables are available and a common trick is to use a piece of electrical tape where you want to measure to ensure each test point has the same emissivity.
Was thinking the exact same, can't tell you how many times my eyes have rolled at videos with people trying to compare surface temperatures who have no understanding of emissivity. I've also personally found different angles to cause different readings on any surface so good luck getting the exact readings on surfaces that bend and meander.
2:23 Yes, covering it up with a white plastic faceplate may end up throwing things off more than they help. Ideally, using a thermocouple for the actual measurement would be more accurate than the IR camera, though the camera can help to determine where the localized hot spots are.
@@dubmob151maybe more precise, not necessarily more accurate. I doubt that using a thermocouple would show a huge delta in the results, if anything, they would all change together and my hypothesis is that they will still be will below the safety margin.
Great information. What was the best, is when you trued up your graph. Using statistics and graphs to mislead is almost the oldest profession. In your graph using 5 degree increments, you get a much different message, deceiving message. Then you added the approved upper limit and the data dictates 20 degree increments and the truth really comes into focus. As several have mentioned, getting wire nuts "right" is a learned skill. I have seen experienced electricians get it wrong sometimes. For ease of use and very high probability of making the best connection, I say the safest choice is the WAGO lever nut.
I’ve seen some shotty work done on home electrical components. It’s not uncommon to see a wire nut hanging on by a thread. I’d say if you know what you’re doing as an electrician you will get similar results from using either option (some prefer the ease of the WAGOs sure, but I mean in terms of function). But a poorly installed wire nut could actually be a bigger threat posed compared to the higher resistance of the WAGO connections.
@@EverydayHomeRepairs May I pimp a video from several years ago, done by a friend of mine in the uk... I am the eponymous chipmunk who sent him the connector 'string' ruclips.net/video/2uYD8e7idnY/видео.html
For the comparative testing, it's simpler to just measure the voltage drop rather than doing all the temperature measuring, because the heat generated is basically that voltage drop times the current. That calculation is the amount of power being dissipated in the box, and easily compared between each other as well as the baseline.
So true. Also what's missing in the "experiment" is doing multiple cycles. One cycle is not a valid experiment. Do 100 cycles to give the normal heat/cool cycles and then measure the resistance after that. Of course to do that you need a labratory grade ohm meter, which he doen't have.
Using an ammeter and a standard DMM could do the measurement fairly accurately, if the heater draws about 12 to15A, measure that with an ammeter, and then measure the voltage across the connector terminals with a DMM in the millivolt range. Divide the voltage by the current and it can read the milliohms of the connector. The specialized meters for milliohms usually just apply about a 1A current and read the voltage to get the calculated readings.
I have been replacing my ceiling lights with integrated LED fixtures and exclusively used Wagos since the current draw is so much lower and is so much easier for me to install. No more hoping the stranded and solid wires will twist together.
@@barfy4751 Emphasis on "skilled". You could make the same statement about using solder connections instead of wire nuts. Why don't we go back to that? Wagos are harder to install incorrectly and make it more likely to get a secure solid to stranded connection. They are the next step forward. Their only downside is price.
@@driatrogenesis While LEDs can be more intense than light bulbs, have you ever looked at an LED? An LED spot has 10-30 small LED cells over the entire light area, meaning that it emits the same light as the thin, point-like incandescent light bulb wire over the massive area of the light bulb. Similarly, outside spot lights, standalone LED light bulbs might have 3-8 strands of LED wire in them, emitting much more spread out and less intense light than an equivalent light bulb with a single strand of high-energy wire. LEDs are bluer, but this is blue at around 465 nm. Dangerous blue light (ultraviolet radiation) only starts at 124 or so nm. Unlike incandescent light bulbs, which emit most of their light as entirely invisible IR radiation, LEDs usually emit zero UV and zero IR, meaning all of their light is visible. As there is no UV in a white LED, the waves emitted are far too long to cause damage to cells. A white incandescent light bulb on the other hand *must* always emit a dangerous amount of invisible UV light, which white LEDs are incapable of, causing possibly serious damage akin to looking directly at the sun. The blue light from LEDs is pure, it has no UV, but the muddier light from incandescent light bulbs must *always* include UV to some extent and this increases the whiter the colour temperature - a 2200 K has less UV than a 3500 or a 4000 К bulb. UV does cause irreversible damage, and the fact that a white incandescent bulb needs to be more blue than an equivalent LED bulb, that is, it emits more dangerous high-energy radiation than an equivalent LED is a good case for switching to LEDs outside the energy concerns.
Awesome experiment. I started using the WAGOs after watching Everyday Home Repairs. I'm 70 years old and cannot put as much strength into wire twisting as I used to. I'm a home DIYer and really appreciate you and your channel. You are my "go to" electrical RUclips channel. Thanks for all you do. BTW, I know that wiring outlets in parallel has been done by many RUclips electrical folks, but I'd love to see your teaching on how-to for those circuits. Have a happy Thanksgiving and God Bless You!
If your getting your advise from that guy on that channel then you sir are going to get into trouble. He Is the utube jack of all trades - master of none. Ive seen him give out so much bad and wrong advise. Hes been corrected by so many yet he continues to give out info like he 's a pro but hes far from it. Find a licensed electrician or someone that knows what their doing. If your having trouble twisting the wires get yourself a set of linemans pliers. By the way he sells the wagos so dont be a fool. Remember taking shortcuts will always get you into trouble. Especially with electrical.
As someone that uses these in the HVAC trade for making connections to fans, compressors and solenoids, I have a high respect for them in their uses. I have found using wire nuts in high moisture environments like the cooled boxes of walk-in coolers/freezers and reach-in boxes they perform better. The wire nuts have rusted on me and I have to cut wire back and re-terminate with a new device VS the WAGO I can lift the lever pull the old device out and connect the new one without having a rust issue and loosing wire length. I still have my questions about them in high vibration environments and therefor will use either a wire nut or a termination block. Thank you for the insight into the temperature issues that people voice and prove they are still a better option for DIYers to use since strand to solid wire is not easy for the novice to do. I do use them at home in automotive too but in low current applications.
Very informative! Maybe, do another video measuring voltage drop under load comparing 10 wire nuts in series to 10 Wagos in series. I suggest comparing using both a heat gun, then a typical load, like an HDTV, fridge, or fan.
Your average meter will struggle to read the difference. At full rated load, 20A, and 120V, that's 2400W going to the load. The Wago will dissipate 2W, absolute worst case. So 20W dissipated in 10 Wagos, 2380W still arriving at the load. Instead of 120V, the meter may read 119V.
I agree. We do not know if the temperature difference is due to the increase in waste heat due to voltage drop, less copper-copper sinking, or radiative properties of the connector. For example, a really good heat sink might look much hotter on a FLIR for the same heat source as a less good heat sink. Honestly, in my opinion, these results are so close together that they perform identically. You might even get the same results as the WAGO using another wire nut from the same package.
@@DonaldZiems , When I make coffee, the voltage at the outlet drops from 122 to about 119. In most circuits, there are a few connections, so I'm wondering how they add up. Personally, I'd twist and use a wire nut, except where replacement is likely, like a light fixture or ceiling fan.
@@randypittman279, my point was that so little power is dissipated in the connections that you'd need a reasonably good meter to notice the lost tenths of a Volt. I think I once ran the numbers that a Wago's resistance is roughly the same as 10' of 14 AWG wire.
I can only say one thing: If it is UL CSA CCA EU.... approved, you can use it without any worries, as long as it is used as intended. I have been working with those standards on an industrial base for almost 50 years now and trust me, you can rely on them. Also, spring terminals have been approved for industrial use for many years now!
Thank you for your experience, especially with the standards you cited. I understand and I completely agree with you. I think what Scott is doing is giving the do-it-yourself’r, without the understanding of those standards, some confidence In the technology.
@@RadioRich100 anything used wrong or installed badly will be a problem. Sort of like old houses with knob and tube. Used as is, likely fine. But many touched it poorly and added loads not intended for the circuit size.
First, thank you for taking the time to run this test and create this content. Very original and to the point. I REALLY appreciate it. I'll add, no one on any electrical channel or reddit ever seems to have an appreciation for how over-designed everything actually is. That means, you should use the approved connector, per it's instructions, that personally gives you the highest confidence. I can sweat copper and connect PEX. Both have good applications. But on a daily basis, I'm using PEX. However, on a DYI electrical, I use wire nuts because I think they are cheap and fine. I'd have zero problem with a wago too, if it came with a device.
What is attractive about the Wago product is its' ability to handle stranded wires as well as solid in a very straightforward and fuss-free manner. My house is done in wire nuts for the most part but any time work on a lighting fixture everything gets changed to Wago...
I believe the interior temperatures between the Wago and the wire nut are similar. I believe difference in the temperature readings are the insulated outer materials covering the conducted connections.
I am a DIYer, not an electrician. I have used Wago connectors and will continue to do so. After seeing your test, I feel more confident using them. Great test! I have learned so much watching your videos. Keep up the GREAT work.
If you needed to see his video to be "more confident" then you shouldnt be doing the work in the first place. Because he doesnt know what hes doing either and is selling that junk.
Don't forget to consider the insulation on the conductors. Table 310.16 shows that the temperature rating of TW conductors is 60 degrees Celcius (140 Fahrenheit). I'm sure that many DIY'ers in your audience will encounter Romex using conductors with this temperature rating that was in use before the 1984 NEC required upgrade to 90 degree C for this cable, without realizing its lower temperature rating. Your video title "Debunking the Pros", in my opinion, actually VALIDATES the pros, because you've demonstrated that the lever connectors that you tested are significantly hotter. The pros also know that having hot connections leads to problems. One example of this is that the insulation on the conductors becomes brittle. RUclipsr GreatScott! also tested, and found that the resistance of your Wago 221 connectors was 14 times higher than wire nuts (2.2mo vs 0.15mo). So, yeah, you validated the pros. They know that what meets minimum legal requirements and what is advisable can be different things. The number of comments speaks to the fact that we really appreciate actual performance tests - please keep up the great work!!
Excellent demonstration! This was under extreme conditions (i.e. higher than rated for the circuit being protected by a breaker) which tells me that under normal household use, you likely would not see those temps even with that slightly higher resistance. I'm not an electrician, but I do understand wire gauge, resistance, loads, etc. Really, the only limiting factor for the WAGO's is the price compared to traditional wire nuts or your baseline installation.
You may understand wire gauge, resistance, loads etc, but what about real world applications where 12 different wires are connected in tiny work boxes and high levels of stress are put on these connectors? Do you have any idea how many times I've seen wires pop out of these things, causing shorts and sometimes fires? The most limiting factor for all DIYers is lack of experience ;)
My experience with wire nuts is that they can be a bit tricky to get right, especially if you mix wire types. The Wago do allow you to transit between just about any wire types without risk of an unreliable connection.
@@buggsy5 There not getting them wrong, theirs bad contractors everywhere. So now you have bad contractors using inferior products so they can get out of there faster. Pushing the wires back in the box and the wago levers are popping open for one.
Hey Scott, great video and great test. I’ve been a bit concerned with the lower contact area in the Wagos and stopped using them after reading some reviews. Your test is a good way to debunk the myths. I’m going to start using the Wagos after seeing this test. Thanks.
I’d like to see this done with the Wago “Wall Nuts” and Ideal “In-Sure” push-in style connectors. I’ve used the Ideal version for a few years now, and just discovered Wago has a similar product. Never had a problem with them. They’re also half the price of the lever nuts, so that’s a big plus. UL approved, by the looks of it too.
Excellent test! Pretty much what I expected from the resistance tests I have seen other RUclipsrs do- Wago runs slightly hotter, but not much. I'd personally still use wire nuts with pre twisted connections for high amperage circuits such as part of a pigtail on a receptacle circuit, but I'd have no problem at all using Wago connectors for loads of a few amps or less like a ceiling fan or light fixture. That's just my preference though, obviously both are completely viable choices.
Just use the WAGO 221-6xx series. Most people forget, that there is an XL version which accepts larger diameters and has a bigger busbar and clamp surface. Modern electrics in Europe is >90% push-in or lever clamps, starting with push-in connection for RCDs, from there to WAGO or PTI installation clamps on DIN rails in the distribution box, WAGO push-in or lever clamps in the room and push-in mechanisms for socket & light switches. Only thick cables >6mm2 are still on screew terminals most of the time. It actually has lead to less accidents, because it is way more „idiot-proof“ than some old fashioned mechanical connections like wire nuts, which were abandoned here over 50y ago…
I rewiring my basement with these (no choice, there was cloth wire and no grounds in original wiring). The first J-box on the largest circuit goes 5 ways with a Wago 221. That circuit hits 10-12A quite a bit (Yes, I'm going to split that up after I get the fuse panel replaced)(Yes,, Fuse.. Not breaker) I was feeling for heat when I put in the Wago, and it barely gets above room temperature when at full load for that circuit for several hours. Wago's are awesome.
Excellent presentation. I know space heaters running on high generally cause their plugs to be too hot to touch so I only run them on high for a short period of time. If I need more heat, I use multiple heaters on low or medium.
Great video. I have switch to wago, like stated from others I have seen twist type come off or loosen over time. Like you stated the breaker will trip well before wago tolerance is meet.
Hi Scott, I always appreciate seeing people testing devices to see how they perform in real life situations. It is not like every breaker always will trip at the rated capacity... there have certainly been some that have been tested that were considerably over their stated trip point, which lends to the credibility of your testing above the rated limits. Wouldn't it be a disappointment if these created a dangerous situation after being certified by multiple regulatory authorities? One of the benefits of the Wago is it will be much harder for a non-professional to install them incorrectly. When my sister asked me to help her with a few things at her relatively new house I opened a light up and a wire pulled right out of the wire nut with next to no force on it. Very shoddy workmanship on the part of the professionals who installed it. I doubt the inspectors would check every single connection in a new build but more likely rely on randomly inspecting a certain number of connections and believe they are representative of the remaining work. Lucky for her this was a light that saw short runs rather than constant use.
For my own projects, saving room in the right junction box I have used the Wago 221, I would agree to keep it for 15 amp circuits, so many lighting applications are led using much less current! German standards for electrical engineering appear to be very well tested!
I think the question is how they will hold up over time. Will the spring lose tension with heating and cooling cycles and gradually increase the resistance of the connection? I installed some on a well pump circuit for a stress test and so far after almost 6 months they are holding up quite well. I've been waiting to do a review video until the results are in but I tend to agree that they may be a good option especially for the DIYer. I'm an electrician by the way with 38 years of experience. I don't like the quick connects connections on devices because of the high failure rate and I though that the WAGO's may have a similar long term result but now I'm not so sure I was correct.
Good morning Scott, That was an EXCELLENT test you did. That just really proves just how good these 221 Wago`s are. I just love these little things. You have wonderful and helpful videos. Keep up the great work.
A very useful video. I would say balancing out the slightly higher temps encountered with the Wago, you have a greater assurance the connection was made in an approved manner with the Wago. I would suspect there are more wire nuts where the workmanship of the connection is sub-standard, resulting in a hotter connection when in use. I would suggest to the Wago people that they consider coming out with an "industrial" line where they make the part out of heavier materials and maybe they could match or even improve on the performance of the wire nut. Again, great job!
Very convincing test for me, I'm sold to the use of Wago lever nuts anyway. I wish that you could redo the same demonstration using the mix of rigid and stranded wires together because this is where the wire nuts fail the most often and the Wago seems to offer a safer contact. Situation we encounter with electronic thermostats and heating baseboards for higher current than the lighting fixtures.
Best most comprehensive test I've seen yet. And, yes.... I do agree with other commenters on the pitfalls of wire nuts. It really doesn't take much giggling around for them to come loose if not done properlty (continue the twist 3 or 4 turns on the wires coming out on the wire nuts). Great job. I too was skeptical but certainly that was conclusive enough for me.)
This is pretty interesting and thank you for going the extra mile and using a high amperage load and examining it with an IR camera. You make really good points with regards the heat capacity. I have seen plenty of failures from loose lugs, bug nuts, stab in outlets, improper use of outlets as splice points, and you make a good argument for a way to splice wires easily, consistently and reliably.
Like others that have commented, I was skeptical about the wago lever nuts. The test you just performed eased all of my concerns. Thanks for all the useful content you create. As a DIYer, it great to have a video or two to fall back on when I have a question.
People are pushing these things because they save time- and are considered "good enough" for certain limited situations- like a single light fixture with plenty of room in the work box. However spring loaded connections are prone to failure in the real world where many connections get crammed into a tiny work space. That's when the wires pop out and things start tripping and melting.
I am not a pro but a DIYer and sometimes with 3 or more conductors I have trouble with wire nuts. I think in that case I will try the WAGO lever nuts next time. Thanks for the unbiased test!
An electric heater in the style you are using is a great device to use for creating heat in the wire run. I would like to see this test replicated on a 30 amp outlet with a wire welder or some higher amperage device. Just to see if the higher amperage changes the variance in this test and what percentage increase in temperature occurs in the wire nut vs WAGO. Keep up the good work!
Fun test, but in practice when the fuck would you ever use wire nuts or wagos on an 80 amp load? That’s going into special connector types territory like Polaris taps.
Good info, thanks. I was recently talking to another and he said he didn't like the WAGO because they score/cut into the wire. I said, other devices certainly do that, but the WAGO was a pinch/squeeze. That changed his mind. I like the WAGO's because of its easy install and clean.
Excellent idea for a test. Yeah the manufacture of the wire nut just says just a twist it on but that's only making an electrical connection it's not making a mechanical connection, that little extra twist helps hold the bundle together and then the wire nut locks them in. I think the biggest issue we're having with the Wago connectors in the US is so many people have seen and had bad experience with backstabs on outlets which were of very poor design using only a friction fit. I've probably pulled the part 2 wire nuts that were a little toasty whereas Backstab outlets are probably closer to 5 or 10.
@@RadioRich100 Wago's have been in use for years. Can you reference any house fire, anywhere, that was directly caused by a faulty Wago? These aren't just some new technology hitting the market. Development of their products began in the 50's.
so was aluminum wiring until about 7 years later when houses burned down left and right. Do to connections going bad. All was approved and accepted. Just like wagos. Why do you think there banned in so many places?
@@RadioRich100 Just because some jurisdictions may modify the NEC to ban WAGOs does not mean anything is wrong with the connectors. I have not seen any electrical fire investigations where the cause was put down to a WAGO connector - although I have seen quite a few where a wire nut was blamed.
I concur his first statement is correct they cannot handle any amperage load over 3 to 4 amps I think they're great for LED light, for connecting wall plugs they are absolute know no, just like when they're okay to push the wires in back of the wall plug not a great I've seen wires turn blue and purple the newer connectors.
This is a really great test! Could you do another video comparing heat from cheap receptacle backstabs vs. screw terminals? Also, I think you should repeat your Wago vs. Wirenut test with multiple splices in series to see if there are compounding effects from increased Wago resistance over the course of an entire electrical circuit. The difference was only a few degrees F with one splice, but does it get dangerous with 6 or 12?
Good job! The bottom line for most DIY'ers, are they competent enough to even follow the well-laid-out instructions to complete the job and have it function 100% for 50 years. With the professional thought in mind, I moved into a home that a Journeyman Electrician owned and lived in, and found extremely shoddy work, or should I say re-work. He made changes and modifications that I have had to repair and or tear out. A TWISTED connection in a good wire-nut, is still a great connection.
I'm neither a teacher nor an electrician, but I'd show this to middle school kids as a demonstration of the scientific method in a real world scenario. You get a solid A for experiment design. Scottish-Canadian electrician W. P Marr patented the wire nut we know today in the 1930s. I'll betcha a hot pastrami and swiss on rye, a big-ass kosher dill pickle, and a cold beer that, if RUclips had been around then, the guys who were married to solder-&-tape connections were making these same arguments. I'll add that I find it 'way easier to get Wagu 211s to lay flat in a box that even the smallest wire nut.
Your analogy is nonsense, its the track record of wirenuts which lasts the life of the house. Wagos are questionable at best. They like them because there quick-no other advantage and not even just as good. They put resistance between conductors. With wire nuts connections between conductors are direct. Wagos are resistors with flip levers. No lab can tell you what happens in the field overtime. Remember aluminum wiring - its cheaper! They thought that was ok too. Hundreds of homes burned to the ground. And its still happening. Take your wagos and put one on your hot pastrami sandwich and eat it.
Since I used WAGO connectors on my daughter's old house (vintage 1930's with an updated 100Amp panel), I very much appreciate your demonstration. I'm not concerned about the outlet temp readings in her house as she would not put a circuit under the loads you used.
As a HVAC tech I've been using WAGO for years. Wire nuts work fine and yes, you have to install them correctly. But I will tell you contrary to what all the WAGO naysayer "ELECTRICIANS" are trying to claim, the touting the supposed superiority of wirenuts. I can say, over decades of years of service, many times I have come across weak connections by "ELECTRICIANS" losing connections, particularly in multiple neutrals bundled. Also many older wire nuts I've seen with a hole burnt right through the end by heat.Usually caused by "ELECTRICIANS" poor connection technique or wrong size wire nut selection. So they are not with out their faults. I find the WAGO are fantastic for control wiring work, because you can join hard copper and stranded wires without the worry of a weak joint. Plus up to 5 wires joined together without worry of poor twisting technique. And they are removable Both work great BUT BOTH need to be installed correctly, and like all tools, each have their strength in a particular installation. The Naysayers seem to be the closed minded types.
As with any type of connection. Poor install will render it ineffective. It comes down to preference in my opinion. Both are a good connection and it does seem the Wago is more user friendly. I like wirenuts because I like wirenuts, it’s what I’m used to.
If Wago would be so dangerous some is trying to claim there would be burning buildings all over Europe. I have in my life come across to melted 221, both where due to bad installation where the wire had not been striped good enough and the wago griped on to shield instead of copper. One was in one of our projects, a 90 000m2 factory, where everything is connected with wago. There are if I remember correctly for example 33 000 lights installed, a lot connected with 221 style. I can with 100% certain say that the failure rate would be much higher with wire nuts
@@Iceeeen I dont agree. Circuits that carry high current especially motors will over time melt wagos. Lights probably wont, but lazy electricians will use them for everything. It only takes 1 wago to burn a house. Properly installed wirenuts will last forever. Properly installed wagos are a fire waiting to happen.
@@RadioRich100 Well my experience says something else. I have come across 2 melted wagos over allt the service jobs I done. Both with the same miss, badly stripped cable. I have to ask the project department on Monday just for fun if they could how check how many wagos are used on a bigger project. We have a office that was handed over last week with 15000m2, would be perfect to get som perspective of the failure rate. But on the other hand I can't remember the last time I was on a service with wire nuts (for any type of work) They are mostly gone. Then again. The only thing that actually pulls any crazy amp for consider amount of time today is EV chargers and that has to be run on an own circuit from the central so no connections on the field. HVAC is either smaller EC fans and bigger units is run with frequency drive. Mostly anything else around here with big power draw cycles and never really builds up heat anymore.
I have used some Wago lever nuts to install some basement LED surface mount lights and for some bathroom fan timers. I really like them and as others have said I like the fact that I can see through them to confirm that the connections are good. Thank you for this video.
Great job giving real world test results. I feel that the Wago is superior. Your channel is presenting info for DIY users. For those of us who have done a lot of wiring over the years, a common failure point is using a standard wire nut incorrectly. The Wago is so difficult to use improperly that it greatly lowers any issues with connecting wires inside of boxes. There is still a gigantic safety margin in using Wago connectors and they are faster to install. For being totally very old school, I would have liked to see the temp comparison for joining the wires by twisting, soldering, and taping. I think it would be an even better result. For those who say wire nuts are safer so I am using them, then why aren’t they soldering them. Yes, way too slow. I feel that after making 500 joints, the number of poor joints with wire nuts will be much higher than joints made with Wagos. Wagos cost more but I feel are worth it.
I don't really understand the cost problem, a Wago is less than a dollar. I completely rewired my flat two years ago, it cost me around $2500, out of which the Wagos were far less than 10%. And even that wouldn't have been too much for the added safety and durability of their spring action.
Using a wago according to the manufactures instructions will cause them to fail itself. This guy is selling them, dont listen to him. Haste makes waste - wagos.
What I think about Wago is that a 5 deg difference means nothing and that they are safe to use in any situation when installed per manufacture recommendations and within specs of the device and connector. I also think they are so much easier and faster to use AND a big selling point is that they make adding a new device or swapping out an existing device super-fast and easy. Also, I would say that for a homeowner with limited experience, you probably get a better connection. Wago are much easier to do right than wire nuts and they support a wider range of AWG. I have seen many professional electricians us the wrong wire nut because of not looking at the capacity chart on the wire nut package (if they even have the package to refer to.
Excellent test! I think more temperature testing videos would be great content. Maybe try different connectors like the Ideal push in or test the difference in temperature between things like pre twisting wire nut connections or screw terminals vs back stab terminals. Measuring the voltage drop across the connectors while loaded would give us another great data point too.
This is the best way to describe wagos. Good for DIYers. If I'm building a house, or hiring contractors to do so - Then I am 100% expecting wire nuts at minimum. If I'm paying for anything more, then I'll opt in for those ideal screw set connectors any day. Even dor a DIY-er though, you cannot actually see or inspect the wire connection after it is made. The same way with wire nuts, however in a solid wire situation - you twist the wires w/ pliers before, inspect for connection & then cap with the nut. The way wagos work don't allow an inspection of the wire connector - they are like the equivalent of those crimp terminals with nylon insulation, can't actually inspect the crimp.
Great move plotting the limit temp to scale the three connection options properly. I may be a mechanical engineer, not an EE, but a good experiment is a good experiment. I go Wago from here on out. I'll take a few degrees delta T at max load over an non-robust connection any day of the week.
Wagos seem great for switches, lights and fans, mixing single strand & multistrand wires etc. I started looking at them for wiring multiple switches in a box where your having to put multiple wires in a wire nut (more than 3), creating pigtails. Less time consuming than twisting wires together with wire nuts and finding one slipped back and then having to put the wires thru doing it over. Thanks for the video!
Well done video. I've used Wago and am confident they are quality. I generally don't listen to guys who say "I've been doing it this way for 30 years and not going to change." Many of those guys have been doing it wrong for 30 years and don't even know it.
Form most circuits, Wago is the best solution. For a really high amp circuit ( 30+ ) I prefer split bolt connectors. But they take up a lot of space and need insulation. LED lights have really helped to cut down circuit loads, so Wago is great.
🇨🇦/🇺🇸... A couple things. 1/ I would automatically tend toward using mechanically simpler mechanisms. 2/ Traditional wire nuts have some size overlap and so you can often ADD a circuit without changing to... hunting through your parts drawer... a new size. (not an issue for the pro who keeps an inventory on hand but sometimes an issue for the homeowner/handyman) 3/ Are a package of WAGO more expensive. (some people won't care... some will)
There is only 1 problem with it, sometimes the lever opens up by pushing it in the j box! Have to tape it around. I'm using it mostly for connecting light fixtures with smaller stranded gauge wires. For this application is it perfect❗️
120 degrees Fahrenheit is, coincidentally, the same maximum temperature recommended for electronics and domestic hot water. Very warm, but not uncomfortable on your skin. I can live with that. Thank you very much for your work here.
Great video. Yeah the WAGO is a bit hotter, but it is still well within design parameters, and perfectly safe. And the ease of use is amazing on the connectors, helping get a better connection and setup.
what design parameters? Heat and resistance is ok!! Why so you can save 30 seconds putting it in? Twisted joints dont get hot. The wago is in series with the load the wire nut is not. U just put a double resistor in series with the load. One going in one going out. Their another point of failure.
Great work and thanks for the video. I'll use WAGOs for lighting connections (connecting stranded wire to solid), but that's it. In my opinion, they are just another version of 'backstab' connections.
It would be interesting to see this test at 20A since that’s a real-world max (or breaker would trip). Would the relative temps remain similar to the test at the higher amperage? Also I’m curious what this would look like at high ambient temps, like a 100F summer day… what was the ambient temp during your test?
Breaker should trip at 80% of rated continuous load, so if a 20A breaker holds more than 16A load? It's bad. Replace it.
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@@ChrisDavis-eq9lj That is not at all true. The 80% versus 100% rating is all about heat, and where the breaker is installed. If its installed in a box with other breakers surrounding it, it might trip at 80%. BS EN MCB breakers are even guaranteed to never pop below 113% for some period of time.
@ 40 years experience as an electrician, 30 years IBEW. Degree in electronics to boot. I'm not making it up. I know from hands on, tested with reliable, calibrated amp meters real world use. Properly working Square D and Siemens 20A breakers can handle a brief startup current of 20 amps. Extended use even in a temp service panel outside in 10 deg F temps will still result in a thermal trip if you exceed 16 amps. Crap like old Federal Pacific breakers? Yeah, I've burned holes through junction boxes dead shorting them. Breaker was so hot you couldn't touch it, but it never tripped. Federal Pacific burned buildings down and killed people. Don't call me out and say I'm a liar. Industry standard 120v branch circuit breakers in residential, commercial and industrial applications will and should not carry more than 80% of their rated capacity for more than a minute or two.
I have a wall outlet which shorted out after changing the plug receptacle. The insulation apparently cracked and blew off the neutral and ground wires. What's left is very short. I've been looking for a way to fix it without hiring an Electric Contractor and running new wires in the wall. I believe the WAGO would be most helpful in my situation. I never exceed the 20 AMP rating, which the short did trip the breaker when it happened. It looks like the WAGO would allow more room in the box for the new pigtail wires and the connector than the wire nut since my wires are so darn short. Your video helped me see the WAGO does it's job. That's what I'm looking for. The most I will run off this plug is a Window AC unit and maybe a couple of pieces of stereo equipment of low wattage. The AC unit will never be run when we're not home. I'm not that crazy.
For solid core copper wires, the Wago 221 are not the best choice. Wago 2273 are the best to use. 221s if you need to add stranded wire to the connection.
I always wondered about the small contact area of the Wago's and how hot they would get under heavy load. They don't seem to be bad at all though, even with the slightly higher operating temperature. I will continue to use them. Thank you for the test! BTW... nice arms!
All of these devices are listed (usually by UL here in the USA). As such they go through LOTS of testing to make sure they aren't hazardous, or are prone to do nasty things (like start fires!). Also note that the NEC is a FIRE code (sponsored by the NFPA!), so their main concern is making sure things don't start fires. So, these items are all safe when used "properly" (follow the instructions!).
They also approved aluminum wiring back in the late 60's. Wanna talk about fires? Those so called approvals can be bought. I guess the labs didnt know what dissimilar metals were.
No,no,no,no, stampy little feet. They are not American, I'M A 100 YEAR QUALIFIED ELECTRICAN (who's learnt sod all over the years and keeps doing the same old tired techniques over the year,s and using the same old rubbish products, coz' it can't be bettered) Therefore they must be rubbish. European too, so probably liberal or communist or something.
What happens to the WAGO spring pressure after it has been heating for a few years under heavy current draw? I believe the spring will weaken and resistance will go up creating even more heat. I believe copper conductors well-twisted first with pliers, and then capped with a wire nut, is a superior connection.
I saw a test where someone ran so much current the insulation on the wire melted off, and the Wago nuts were still okay. In fact, the wire nuts melted, leaving just the steel helix around the wires. But the Wago plastic was still intact (although I'm sure it was hot).
Retired career Navy electrician. We never use wire nuts in the Navy, but none of our wiring is solid core. All shipboard wiring is multi-stranded. So all wiring connections must have crimped connectors, from tiny valve position indicator light wires up to massive main distribution switchboard cable connectors. I've marveled at experienced construction electricians working with them, their hands a flurry of motion stripping, twisting, cutting twisted wires to same length and then twisting on a wire nut. But I never got proficient with wire nuts and I hate them. In addition, I've found too many connections done by somebody before me in two different houses where wire nuts either FELL OFF or were very loose. So I've been using Wagos for renovation work in my house since I first discovered Wagos three years ago. I especially LOVE them for for things like connecting a new bathroom exhaust fan where you have to juggle making the connection and then fit a fan box electrical connection cover plate tab in slot and then secure with a screw... But I've been using Wagos and Ideal equivalents exclusively instead of wire nuts. My only comment/suggestion is that you wrap a layer or two electrical tape around the levers to ensure they don't get knocked loose while folding wires into and stuffing electrical or connection or junction boxes. This is just from my own experience where I noticed it's very easy to unlock the levers while placing the connected wires inside.
WAGO seems safe enough for me. I won't be using them under extreme conditions anyway, but it's good to know they can take it if I ever need to. Thanks, Scott. You tell 'em, brother. 👍
I am a fan of them over the last five years.. I like how I can disconnect the load without messing with the Hot conductor. They can be a bit pricey, but I use them in certain applications for convenience, such as light fixtures, certain motors pieces of equipment I may have to revisit. General pipe and wire I stick to wire nuts and yes, there should be a class on wire nuts because they’re quite often miss used.
👍 Well done! And well needed. Showing a comparison of improperly installed WAGOs and wire nuts would be interesting to know for a full risk assessment. Thanks for details.
Thanks for doing this, I would really like to see a multiple data set test that cycles these connections on-off over time to see how they degrade over many current cycles. The only issue I have with the Wago at this time is how much more area they occupy in the box. And yes, I agree with another comment below, Voltage drop over time would be a better test, When you introduce an IR imager there are a lot of variables you need to consider to get accurate temperature measurement.
This like when plumbers were confronted with PEX and shark bites. “The world is going to come to an end”. I have used the stab ins for years and now the lever types and they work great.
I’m in Australia and we don’t use wire nuts. It’s a screwed connector. Twist the wire first and put it in the connector and do up the screw. These work with all types of wires and I think they are safer than a wire nut. Since I found the Wago connectors I’ve been using them a lot of the time. Awesome for fault finding. It does have limitations if you want to put a few wires into one connector and have limited space. Most of my work is with fire alarm systems and the Wago are the best as the current and voltages are low and unless you do a really crap job of the install there wouldn’t be many connections along the circuit to cause an issue
I would like to see a test done like this with wire nuts and wago’s that have been in service for 5 or so years to see if either of them lose spring tension
exactly, the problem comes from using them over extended periods of time, after enough times of heating and cooling the wagos connection weakens, causing more heat, and the cycle just repeats until you end up with arcing and a fire.
@@SbassLaser These aren't new. They've been in use in Europe for a decade, including commericial applications. If there was a problem, you'd have heard about it.
IMO the Wagos give me more confidence that my connections will stay together, especially when connecting 3+ wires, and in many cases make tidying boxes easier. I'll never go back to wirenuts where I can help it.
I echo that. I just redid a junction box that had 3 and 4 wire gangs, though I used the push-in type. I felt very sure of the connections, unlike when I was using wire nuts. The bonus was that it was way easier to stuff those wires back in the box.
Just came across your test and Thank you ! While it is true the the WAGO have less contact surface area thus increasing resistance and heat , by no means encroaches the upper tolerance limit ! Fantastic experiment and much appreciate your time and effort !!! 🍻
I recently switched from wire nuts to Wago 221. The Wago is much easier to use and reuse. I feel more confident in the Wago than the wire nut. Two thumbs up for Wago.
I'm just about to add a couple of outlets to a 15a circuit in a bedroom (for lamps, clock radios, etc) and have been considering the Wago 221. I think I will continue and install them. Thanks!
Excellent video! The results are what I would expect- Wagos have more resistance but not enough to be an issue. Not even close. My personal belief is the issues that people have had with Wagos comes from not having the wire inserted straight and flat. If re-stripped prior to inserting all should be fine.
It would be interesting to test this with a continuous load. Like hook up an EV charger pulling 16 amps on the 20 amp outlet (max amp draw for 20 amp outlet for a continuous load) and see how hot a wago gets after 4 hours of continuous load. And then again at 8 or 10 hours. I'm sure it'll be well below the 105 degrees C that they are rated.
I just purchased a ChargePoint Home Flex EV charger that incorporates lever operated spring loaded connection points for 6 AWG wire (CU only) at a max 48A continuous current draw on a 60A circuit. The product is UL listed.
Thank you for covering this subject. Very informative. I did not have that question in mind,since I have been amazed with these Wago lever nuts ever since I’ve been watching some of these electrical channels using them in some of the examples I needed at the time - including yours. Heat max performance never crossed my mind, but I’m glad you addressed it.
The difference between 105 degrees and 115 degrees is not enough to worry about. More importantly, that 10 degree difference was in a circuit that was overloaded with unrealistic current flows. It would be interesting to see how the Wago connector performs in a 15-amp circuit.
It is enough to worry about,it indicates resistance is high when there new. What happens a few years down the road when the spring loses some of its tension. Wire nuts work forever.
Wago 221s are approaching 10 years on the market and no problems so far. Compare that to the numerous instances I’ve run across where wire nuts became loose.
@@RadioRich100 A picture is worth a thousand words. Never seen a failed Wago image. I’m sure if they were failing, the images would be all over the internet.
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What do I think?
You couldn't have made this any more confusing if you'd tried, if it wasn't for you flat out saying at the end that the Wago lever nuts are safe to use I wouldn't have known, as if things weren't vague enough you change the parameters of the test at the end moving the lines on your chart and all of the sudden it's "Gee, I thought I was lost before, now I'm really lost", because what exactly does that mean? Were the results in the first place invalid? If not then why were things changed? Does the second set of results more closely resemble real world use? If so why the first set of results? If not then why the second set?
Thanks for clearly stating at the end that Wago's are safe, I've often wondered why and that's based on the area of contact the wires have inside the Wago coupled with the notorious push in type outlets and them being known to fail, the two designs being similar and all, but if you wouldn't have just plain stated they're safe at the end I wouldn't have known, and I wasn't about to watch this 4 or 5 times to sort things out so I could figure out your conclusions.
The wago lever nuts are tested to European and German standards, and they are good standards for safety. While it may have slightly higher resistance due to the busbar arrangement, it is far less likely to experience user error and a poor connection in a DIY situation. The locations I use these most are for light fixtures, which have low draw. Good demonstration and good data. That was a well designed experiment. Thanks for putting it out there!
They've also been using them over there for decades
@@feelingtardy make that "a bunch of decades". The lever connectors may be newer, but we have used their predecessors for ages. I used the first one when my parents built their house in the early 80s. Wire nuts are legal here, but nobody even considers them for anything beyond low voltage / low current applications. They may have one or two advantages, but they have far too many disadvantages.
So your afraid of using them for high amp draw? Great product then. Your fears are correct.
Would be nice if they sold a version with a beefier busbar for less resistance. I can see how this could cause issues if run in series over 10± recepticles. That last one might have significant voltage drop to harm sensitive electronics.
@@aaronlandry3947 there is no reason for this. The voltage drop is within code requirements and far smaller than the allowable fluctuations in power lines, and right now I can think of no electrical device that is THAT kind of sensitive to the voltage of its power supply.
I'm a licensed electrician. I've been working for 25 years. I've used Wagos for most of that time. We've used them in residential, commercial and industrial conditions. Lighting retrofits, new home construction, remodels, and pretty much everything including high amp loads. I've been back to some of those jobs months or years later for various reasons and been back inside some of the boxes with the Wagos installed. None were melted. All were perfectly fine. I've never had to go back to a job because of a problem with the Wagos.
They have been used in Europe for decades. They are tested to German standards. They are UL approved. And this test also shows that fears of Wagos being unsafe are unfounded. They are just fine. They are not a problem at all. I understand why some are skeptical but Wagos are perfectly safe. I have them in my home wiring.
Wagos are also clear so you can see how the wires are seated inside the device. You can't do that with wire nuts. You can't see inside to verify the wires are correctly seated. Wagos are also easier for a DIY to get right.
I've had wirenuts melt on me, mostly because the twisting mechanism on an old wire to a new wire can result in the old wire being damaged and cause arcing / higher resistance. In the instance where the wirenut melted on me before, a wago nut more than likely would have prevented it because it would of been less likely to damage the old wiring.
Your another one who thinks everytime those things fail your going to get a phone call. Ive seen melted down ones and intermittent connections and wires falling out of them. The levers open when you push them into a box or with vibration over time.Burned and black. If wirenuts are applied properly and wires twisted right they never fail. If wagos are applied properly they do fail. Nothings better than a copper to copper mechanical connection . Not a double spring contact resistor where the conductors dont even meet.
@@RadioRich100 I use the push on Wagos, not the lever ones. They are just as safe as wirenuts and you can see into them and tell if the connection is good. I've seen far more melted wirenuts.
finally an Aamerican electrician who isn't retarded. My home is 1972, metal boxes, no leeway with wire lings, twisted wires are f***ing nightmare in remodels. Anyone still twisting wires loves bud light.
I had a gas furnace blower fan that used traditional wire nuts. The unit would blow a slow blow fuse about once a year since the day it was new. Then one day the slow blow fuse blew instantly. After some examination, found 2 of the traditional wire nuts that had been installed new with the furnace in 2010, (which by that time was 2017 so only 7 years old) had melted completely through each other and they were shorting/making contact with each other and it was black/charred and the plastic was melted away. Carefully wired it with traditional wire nuts 6 years ago and have not needed any more fuses, but I was very diligent about separating each of the wire nuts so they were not making contact with each other in the box. I was very disappointed in the insulating capability of the original wire nuts but now seeing this video I wonder if it was a heat problem all along. So I wonder that if a traditional wire nut can melt in that application, I would be reluctant to go with a WAGO knowing that it's just a little bit more sensitive to melting. Edit: maybe not more sensitive to melting but rather seems to cause the connection to run just a tad hotter.
I want to clarify something Scott keeps saying which is a little misleading (and that is Wago's fault): Wago 221 lever nuts are a FAMILY of products with different current ratings and gauges of wire. The ones Scott is using are the 221-41X side of the family which are rated at 20A/300V. The X represents the number of conductors, so 221-415 is a 5-wire Wago. Now the misleading part: there are different Wago 221s for higher current applications up to 30A/300V and supporting conductors from 20-10 AWG. If you need Wagos for higher current circuits then those are what you need, and they are available in 221-612, 613, and 615 sizes. Sadly, no inline splice connector in the higher range yet.
You are correct. They would be required here in Europe for the load that was applied in the test.
We use the Ideal connector on our projects everyday we are using them to run low wattage AC motors around 60 watt each. With hundreds of installations we have not had any issues yet!! God willing I hope it stays that way!!
You are only partly correct. 20A rating is only for Japan (PSE JET) only. In europe and north it is rated at 32A (ENEC & cULus).
@@shopart1488This Wago connector is rated at 32A. His info is a bit misleading.
No 4 hole Wagos at all. They would be very useful when needing to put 4 wires together, but there's only 2, 3, and 5 hole versions.
You read my mind. After seeing you recommend Wago numerous times in your videos, I still hesitated when it came to my projects. “But the resistance is higher with the Wago; it’s safer to stick to wire nuts,” I told my self. Well, not any more! Thanks to your well-planned and well-run demonstration, I no longer have any hesitation. This is what I love most about your channel: you don’t just reach conclusions about different methods or parts, you take the time and effort to break them down and test them. Excellent work, yet again.
You need to reevaluate that. This guy is just a handyman. He knows nothing of what he talks about. Your fist opinion was correct.
@@RadioRich100 I've employed my share of tradespeople for work on a few homes over the decades. To say that handymen know nothing is wrong. Though they may have less experience in 1 specific field, a good handyman can often do a better overall job if they have experience in many different trades. I've found that a person who only focuses on 1 field, say an electrician, can often be a bit timid about making changes to plumbing, a heat duct, or drywall that might be in the way. Sure, if I want an electrical service change then I'll call an electrician. But, if I want to widen a closet door that might involve changes to framing, drywall, a receptacle, and a water pipe then I'd rather hire 1 good handyman than 3 specific tradespeople. And the end result would likely be better.
@@JasonEDragon ??? What the heck does that have to do with providing research on wagos that hes not qualified to give?
@@RadioRich100 Although I've seen videos from some very knowledgeable electricians (such as Mike Holt in the USA and John Ward in the UK), I've also seen seen electricians make videos with dubious comments about Wago connectors as well. This was just one short video and I thought that it was well done. And it is not as if electricians are designing these products at companies such as Ideal and Wago. I expect that instead they mostly employ people such as material scientists, electrical engineers, mechanical engineers, test engineers, statisticians, physicists and the like. If you are suggesting that only an electrician with several years experience should comment on these topics then I don't accept that.
I expect that over the coming years there will be a lot more smart devices being integrated into our electrical systems, which electricians will be ill prepared to handle only by themselves. So, more people can be expected to be tinkering with electricity and we will need devices that can better accommodate people whose area of experience varies.
@Jason Dragon these things are not smart or better or just as good. There faster and will cause points of failure as time goes on. Why do think wagos are banned in so many places?
2:41 I have the same IR camera and something you should be aware of is the the surface material you’re measuring will definitely affect the temperature value shown. The factor is called emissivity and needs to be taken into account. Shiny or polished surfaces have very different values than dull or matte ones. You should be aware of this when comparing temperatures. Tables are available and a common trick is to use a piece of electrical tape where you want to measure to ensure each test point has the same emissivity.
I was going to mention as much
Great observation. I used to work with blackbodies, which had super high (absorbed most energy) emissivity ratings.
Was thinking the exact same, can't tell you how many times my eyes have rolled at videos with people trying to compare surface temperatures who have no understanding of emissivity. I've also personally found different angles to cause different readings on any surface so good luck getting the exact readings on surfaces that bend and meander.
2:23 Yes, covering it up with a white plastic faceplate may end up throwing things off more than they help.
Ideally, using a thermocouple for the actual measurement would be more accurate than the IR camera, though the camera can help to determine where the localized hot spots are.
@@dubmob151maybe more precise, not necessarily more accurate. I doubt that using a thermocouple would show a huge delta in the results, if anything, they would all change together and my hypothesis is that they will still be will below the safety margin.
Great information.
What was the best, is when you trued up your graph. Using statistics and graphs to mislead is almost the oldest profession.
In your graph using 5 degree increments, you get a much different message, deceiving message.
Then you added the approved upper limit and the data dictates 20 degree increments and the truth really comes into focus.
As several have mentioned, getting wire nuts "right" is a learned skill. I have seen experienced electricians get it wrong sometimes.
For ease of use and very high probability of making the best connection, I say the safest choice is the WAGO lever nut.
I’ve seen some shotty work done on home electrical components. It’s not uncommon to see a wire nut hanging on by a thread. I’d say if you know what you’re doing as an electrician you will get similar results from using either option (some prefer the ease of the WAGOs sure, but I mean in terms of function). But a poorly installed wire nut could actually be a bigger threat posed compared to the higher resistance of the WAGO connections.
That is pretty much exactly my stance as well.
@@EverydayHomeRepairs May I pimp a video from several years ago, done by a friend of mine in the uk... I am the eponymous chipmunk who sent him the connector 'string' ruclips.net/video/2uYD8e7idnY/видео.html
Thats because this guy probably did it.
@@RadioRich100 who?
Shotty work is the person doing it. A shotty product fails no matter who does it.
For the comparative testing, it's simpler to just measure the voltage drop rather than doing all the temperature measuring, because the heat generated is basically that voltage drop times the current. That calculation is the amount of power being dissipated in the box, and easily compared between each other as well as the baseline.
So true. Also what's missing in the "experiment" is doing multiple cycles. One cycle is not a valid experiment. Do 100 cycles to give the normal heat/cool cycles and then measure the resistance after that. Of course to do that you need a labratory grade ohm meter, which he doen't have.
Using an ammeter and a standard DMM could do the measurement fairly accurately, if the heater draws about 12 to15A, measure that with an ammeter, and then measure the voltage across the connector terminals with a DMM in the millivolt range. Divide the voltage by the current and it can read the milliohms of the connector.
The specialized meters for milliohms usually just apply about a 1A current and read the voltage to get the calculated readings.
@@davepompea if you need to have a laboratory ohm meter then its insignificant to its application.
That would make for a rather boring video though.
I have been replacing my ceiling lights with integrated LED fixtures and exclusively used Wagos since the current draw is so much lower and is so much easier for me to install. No more hoping the stranded and solid wires will twist together.
There is no issue for a skilled worker to splice solid to stranded with wire nuts.
@@barfy4751 Emphasis on "skilled". You could make the same statement about using solder connections instead of wire nuts. Why don't we go back to that? Wagos are harder to install incorrectly and make it more likely to get a secure solid to stranded connection. They are the next step forward. Their only downside is price.
@@driatrogenesis I’ve never heard that claim before. Could you please elaborate?
@@driatrogenesis While LEDs can be more intense than light bulbs, have you ever looked at an LED? An LED spot has 10-30 small LED cells over the entire light area, meaning that it emits the same light as the thin, point-like incandescent light bulb wire over the massive area of the light bulb. Similarly, outside spot lights, standalone LED light bulbs might have 3-8 strands of LED wire in them, emitting much more spread out and less intense light than an equivalent light bulb with a single strand of high-energy wire.
LEDs are bluer, but this is blue at around 465 nm. Dangerous blue light (ultraviolet radiation) only starts at 124 or so nm. Unlike incandescent light bulbs, which emit most of their light as entirely invisible IR radiation, LEDs usually emit zero UV and zero IR, meaning all of their light is visible. As there is no UV in a white LED, the waves emitted are far too long to cause damage to cells. A white incandescent light bulb on the other hand *must* always emit a dangerous amount of invisible UV light, which white LEDs are incapable of, causing possibly serious damage akin to looking directly at the sun. The blue light from LEDs is pure, it has no UV, but the muddier light from incandescent light bulbs must *always* include UV to some extent and this increases the whiter the colour temperature - a 2200 K has less UV than a 3500 or a 4000 К bulb. UV does cause irreversible damage, and the fact that a white incandescent bulb needs to be more blue than an equivalent LED bulb, that is, it emits more dangerous high-energy radiation than an equivalent LED is a good case for switching to LEDs outside the energy concerns.
Awesome experiment. I started using the WAGOs after watching Everyday Home Repairs. I'm 70 years old and cannot put as much strength into wire twisting as I used to. I'm a home DIYer and really appreciate you and your channel. You are my "go to" electrical RUclips channel. Thanks for all you do. BTW, I know that wiring outlets in parallel has been done by many RUclips electrical folks, but I'd love to see your teaching on how-to for those circuits. Have a happy Thanksgiving and God Bless You!
Sounds to me like you need someone who knows what he doing since you cant do it right.
@@RadioRich100 - You are exactly what's wrong with the culture among the trades.
If your getting your advise from that guy on that channel then you sir are going to get into trouble. He Is the utube jack of all trades - master of none. Ive seen him give out so much bad and wrong advise. Hes been corrected by so many yet he continues to give out info like he 's a pro but hes far from it. Find a licensed electrician or someone that knows what their doing. If your having trouble twisting the wires get yourself a set of linemans pliers. By the way he sells the wagos so dont be a fool. Remember taking shortcuts will always get you into trouble. Especially with electrical.
@@smileychess ? What culture?? If the culture is taking short cuts and risking failures or worse then yeah im against it.
@@RadioRich100 - What shortcut? Using Wagos? The UL certified device that's standard in dozens of countries for hundreds of millions of homes?
I am glad that you put in the max temp on the graph. It really put into perspective.
💯
@@EverydayHomeRepairs There should be NO HEAT, NO MEASURABLE RESISTANCE
As someone that uses these in the HVAC trade for making connections to fans, compressors and solenoids, I have a high respect for them in their uses. I have found using wire nuts in high moisture environments like the cooled boxes of walk-in coolers/freezers and reach-in boxes they perform better. The wire nuts have rusted on me and I have to cut wire back and re-terminate with a new device VS the WAGO I can lift the lever pull the old device out and connect the new one without having a rust issue and loosing wire length. I still have my questions about them in high vibration environments and therefor will use either a wire nut or a termination block. Thank you for the insight into the temperature issues that people voice and prove they are still a better option for DIYers to use since strand to solid wire is not easy for the novice to do. I do use them at home in automotive too but in low current applications.
Very informative! Maybe, do another video measuring voltage drop under load comparing 10 wire nuts in series to 10 Wagos in series. I suggest comparing using both a heat gun, then a typical load, like an HDTV, fridge, or fan.
Your average meter will struggle to read the difference. At full rated load, 20A, and 120V, that's 2400W going to the load. The Wago will dissipate 2W, absolute worst case. So 20W dissipated in 10 Wagos, 2380W still arriving at the load. Instead of 120V, the meter may read 119V.
I agree. We do not know if the temperature difference is due to the increase in waste heat due to voltage drop, less copper-copper sinking, or radiative properties of the connector. For example, a really good heat sink might look much hotter on a FLIR for the same heat source as a less good heat sink.
Honestly, in my opinion, these results are so close together that they perform identically. You might even get the same results as the WAGO using another wire nut from the same package.
@@DonaldZiems , When I make coffee, the voltage at the outlet drops from 122 to about 119. In most circuits, there are a few connections, so I'm wondering how they add up. Personally, I'd twist and use a wire nut, except where replacement is likely, like a light fixture or ceiling fan.
@@DonaldZiems i don't think a voltmeter would have trouble directly measuring the voltage drop though--measuring across the series of connections.
@@randypittman279, my point was that so little power is dissipated in the connections that you'd need a reasonably good meter to notice the lost tenths of a Volt. I think I once ran the numbers that a Wago's resistance is roughly the same as 10' of 14 AWG wire.
I can only say one thing:
If it is UL CSA CCA EU.... approved, you can use it without any worries, as long as it is used as intended.
I have been working with those standards on an industrial base for almost 50 years now and trust me,
you can rely on them. Also, spring terminals have been approved for industrial use for many years now!
exactly
Thank you for your experience, especially with the standards you cited. I understand and I completely agree with you. I think what Scott is doing is giving the do-it-yourself’r, without the understanding of those standards, some confidence In the technology.
They also approved aluminum wiring. Nothing more needs to be said.
@@RadioRich100 anything used wrong or installed badly will be a problem. Sort of like old houses with knob and tube. Used as is, likely fine. But many touched it poorly and added loads not intended for the circuit size.
@@RadioRich100 BINGO!
First, thank you for taking the time to run this test and create this content. Very original and to the point. I REALLY appreciate it. I'll add, no one on any electrical channel or reddit ever seems to have an appreciation for how over-designed everything actually is. That means, you should use the approved connector, per it's instructions, that personally gives you the highest confidence. I can sweat copper and connect PEX. Both have good applications. But on a daily basis, I'm using PEX. However, on a DYI electrical, I use wire nuts because I think they are cheap and fine. I'd have zero problem with a wago too, if it came with a device.
There junk this guy is selling them.
What is attractive about the Wago product is its' ability to handle stranded wires as well as solid in a very straightforward and fuss-free manner. My house is done in wire nuts for the most part but any time work on a lighting fixture everything gets changed to Wago...
Well done, I suspected the WAGO would be slightly more resistive (heat) however, it still works quite well and makes the jobs much easier. Cheers
I just did the math in a sub thread. 1 wago is ~ 2 WNs on solid, ~ 4 WNs on stranded (not sure, but I think those #s came from awg 14)
Wagos are junk and fail frequently.
Which means more possibility of fires.
I believe the interior temperatures between the Wago and the wire nut are similar. I believe difference in the temperature readings are the insulated outer materials covering the conducted connections.
I am a DIYer, not an electrician. I have used Wago connectors and will continue to do so. After seeing your test, I feel more confident using them. Great test! I have learned so much watching your videos. Keep up the GREAT work.
your just lazy or cant manage the wirenuts. So maybe you shouldnt be doing the work.
Even better are the tests pumping 60 amps through a wire nut and a Wago, both rated for 20. Wire nut *melts*. Wago heats up but stays intact.
If you needed to see his video to be "more confident" then you shouldnt be doing the work in the first place. Because he doesnt know what hes doing either and is selling that junk.
@@RadioRich100 Sorry, we must have missed your videos on youtube.....sit back and enjoy Mr. Karen.....
@@benk4881 No videos , there used for selling thing, like wagos. If your smart you wont watch info-mercials on tv either.
Don't forget to consider the insulation on the conductors. Table 310.16 shows that the temperature rating of TW conductors is 60 degrees Celcius (140 Fahrenheit). I'm sure that many DIY'ers in your audience will encounter Romex using conductors with this temperature rating that was in use before the 1984 NEC required upgrade to 90 degree C for this cable, without realizing its lower temperature rating. Your video title "Debunking the Pros", in my opinion, actually VALIDATES the pros, because you've demonstrated that the lever connectors that you tested are significantly hotter. The pros also know that having hot connections leads to problems. One example of this is that the insulation on the conductors becomes brittle. RUclipsr GreatScott! also tested, and found that the resistance of your Wago 221 connectors was 14 times higher than wire nuts (2.2mo vs 0.15mo). So, yeah, you validated the pros. They know that what meets minimum legal requirements and what is advisable can be different things. The number of comments speaks to the fact that we really appreciate actual performance tests - please keep up the great work!!
Great perspective against the design max temperature. That view puts the Wago in clear perspective. I’m staying with my Wagos. Thanks.
Excellent demonstration! This was under extreme conditions (i.e. higher than rated for the circuit being protected by a breaker) which tells me that under normal household use, you likely would not see those temps even with that slightly higher resistance. I'm not an electrician, but I do understand wire gauge, resistance, loads, etc.
Really, the only limiting factor for the WAGO's is the price compared to traditional wire nuts or your baseline installation.
You may understand wire gauge, resistance, loads etc, but what about real world applications where 12 different wires are connected in tiny work boxes and high levels of stress are put on these connectors? Do you have any idea how many times I've seen wires pop out of these things, causing shorts and sometimes fires? The most limiting factor for all DIYers is lack of experience ;)
@@Rick-the-Swiftif the wires pop out then you are using knockoffs, i’ve used Wagos in tight spaces and never had wires pop out
My experience with wire nuts is that they can be a bit tricky to get right, especially if you mix wire types. The Wago do allow you to transit between just about any wire types without risk of an unreliable connection.
If you say wirenuts are tricky u shouldnt be doing the work in the first place.
@@RadioRich100 If they were not tricky, then licensed electricians would not get them wrong so often.
@@buggsy5 There not getting them wrong, theirs bad contractors everywhere. So now you have bad contractors using inferior products so they can get out of there faster. Pushing the wires back in the box and the wago levers are popping open for one.
Stranded and solid just don’t get along all the time. Ive had a wire nut melt but it took 5 years. Wago is a no brainer when using different wire
@@RadioRich100 rather do it myself. not going to pay you $250 to come in and put in 1 light switch. sorry.
Hey Scott, great video and great test. I’ve been a bit concerned with the lower contact area in the Wagos and stopped using them after reading some reviews. Your test is a good way to debunk the myths. I’m going to start using the Wagos after seeing this test. Thanks.
NEVER trust any review, kinda like gov. agencies and media (controlled by gov)
I’d like to see this done with the Wago “Wall Nuts” and Ideal “In-Sure” push-in style connectors. I’ve used the Ideal version for a few years now, and just discovered Wago has a similar product. Never had a problem with them. They’re also half the price of the lever nuts, so that’s a big plus. UL approved, by the looks of it too.
Excellent test! Pretty much what I expected from the resistance tests I have seen other RUclipsrs do- Wago runs slightly hotter, but not much. I'd personally still use wire nuts with pre twisted connections for high amperage circuits such as part of a pigtail on a receptacle circuit, but I'd have no problem at all using Wago connectors for loads of a few amps or less like a ceiling fan or light fixture. That's just my preference though, obviously both are completely viable choices.
Just use the WAGO 221-6xx series.
Most people forget, that there is an XL version which accepts larger diameters and has a bigger busbar and clamp surface.
Modern electrics in Europe is >90% push-in or lever clamps, starting with push-in connection for RCDs, from there to WAGO or PTI installation clamps on DIN rails in the distribution box, WAGO push-in or lever clamps in the room and push-in mechanisms for socket & light switches.
Only thick cables >6mm2 are still on screew terminals most of the time.
It actually has lead to less accidents, because it is way more „idiot-proof“ than some old fashioned mechanical connections like wire nuts, which were abandoned here over 50y ago…
I rewiring my basement with these (no choice, there was cloth wire and no grounds in original wiring). The first J-box on the largest circuit goes 5 ways with a Wago 221.
That circuit hits 10-12A quite a bit (Yes, I'm going to split that up after I get the fuse panel replaced)(Yes,, Fuse.. Not breaker)
I was feeling for heat when I put in the Wago, and it barely gets above room temperature when at full load for that circuit for several hours.
Wago's are awesome.
Yes they are 👍
@@EverydayHomeRepairs there garbage you will findout later when the circuit starts to fail.
Excellent presentation. I know space heaters running on high generally cause their plugs to be too hot to touch so I only run them on high for a short period of time. If I need more heat, I use multiple heaters on low or medium.
Great video. I have switch to wago, like stated from others I have seen twist type come off or loosen over time. Like you stated the breaker will trip well before wago tolerance is meet.
They don't 'come off or loosen' if done properly in the first place. Way too many DIY'ers and hack electricians doing electrical work these days.
Hi Scott,
I always appreciate seeing people testing devices to see how they perform in real life situations. It is not like every breaker always will trip at the rated capacity... there have certainly been some that have been tested that were considerably over their stated trip point, which lends to the credibility of your testing above the rated limits.
Wouldn't it be a disappointment if these created a dangerous situation after being certified by multiple regulatory authorities? One of the benefits of the Wago is it will be much harder for a non-professional to install them incorrectly. When my sister asked me to help her with a few things at her relatively new house I opened a light up and a wire pulled right out of the wire nut with next to no force on it. Very shoddy workmanship on the part of the professionals who installed it. I doubt the inspectors would check every single connection in a new build but more likely rely on randomly inspecting a certain number of connections and believe they are representative of the remaining work. Lucky for her this was a light that saw short runs rather than constant use.
For my own projects, saving room in the right junction box I have used the Wago 221, I would agree to keep it for 15 amp circuits, so many lighting applications are led using much less current! German standards for electrical engineering appear to be very well tested!
I salute you for actually doing the experiment. It would be interesting to see a fourth group, with the wire nut with a pre-twist.
I think the question is how they will hold up over time. Will the spring lose tension with heating and cooling cycles and gradually increase the resistance of the connection? I installed some on a well pump circuit for a stress test and so far after almost 6 months they are holding up quite well. I've been waiting to do a review video until the results are in but I tend to agree that they may be a good option especially for the DIYer. I'm an electrician by the way with 38 years of experience. I don't like the quick connects connections on devices because of the high failure rate and I though that the WAGO's may have a similar long term result but now I'm not so sure I was correct.
you were correct , they will eventually fail if not sooner.
Good morning Scott,
That was an EXCELLENT test you did.
That just really proves just how good these 221 Wago`s are. I just love these little things.
You have wonderful and helpful videos. Keep up the great work.
Until they have been there a few years
@@RadioRich100 The Europeans are not having any problems, and they have been using them for decades.
Hes a jack of all trades master of none, hes trying to sell them.
A very useful video. I would say balancing out the slightly higher temps encountered with the Wago, you have a greater assurance the connection was made in an approved manner with the Wago. I would suspect there are more wire nuts where the workmanship of the connection is sub-standard, resulting in a hotter connection when in use. I would suggest to the Wago people that they consider coming out with an "industrial" line where they make the part out of heavier materials and maybe they could match or even improve on the performance of the wire nut.
Again, great job!
Whats the balance when the wago catches fire?
Very convincing test for me, I'm sold to the use of Wago lever nuts anyway. I wish that you could redo the same demonstration using the mix of rigid and stranded wires together because this is where the wire nuts fail the most often and the Wago seems to offer a safer contact. Situation we encounter with electronic thermostats and heating baseboards for higher current than the lighting fixtures.
Best most comprehensive test I've seen yet. And, yes.... I do agree with other commenters on the pitfalls of wire nuts. It really doesn't take much giggling around for them to come loose if not done properlty (continue the twist 3 or 4 turns on the wires coming out on the wire nuts). Great job. I too was skeptical but certainly that was conclusive enough for me.)
Agreed. I'll never put a wire nut inside of a ceiling fan fixture again. Shake rattle and roll.
This is pretty interesting and thank you for going the extra mile and using a high amperage load and examining it with an IR camera. You make really good points with regards the heat capacity. I have seen plenty of failures from loose lugs, bug nuts, stab in outlets, improper use of outlets as splice points, and you make a good argument for a way to splice wires easily, consistently and reliably.
Good video, but what was the Voltage drop across the Wago vs the Screw nut at that High currents? That will also give a good idea whats happening too
Great video! Thank you! I thought the only reason folks didn't use more wago's was cost. But I did always wonder about this issue.
Like others that have commented, I was skeptical about the wago lever nuts. The test you just performed eased all of my concerns. Thanks for all the useful content you create. As a DIYer, it great to have a video or two to fall back on when I have a question.
Dont let it ease your concerns. You were right to be skeptical.
People are pushing these things because they save time- and are considered "good enough" for certain limited situations- like a single light fixture with plenty of room in the work box. However spring loaded connections are prone to failure in the real world where many connections get crammed into a tiny work space. That's when the wires pop out and things start tripping and melting.
I am not a pro but a DIYer and sometimes with 3 or more conductors I have trouble with wire nuts. I think in that case I will try the WAGO lever nuts next time. Thanks for the unbiased test!
An electric heater in the style you are using is a great device to use for creating heat in the wire run. I would like to see this test replicated on a 30 amp outlet with a wire welder or some higher amperage device. Just to see if the higher amperage changes the variance in this test and what percentage increase in temperature occurs in the wire nut vs WAGO. Keep up the good work!
I use wago for low power/amp applications all the time. Your demo puts me much more at ease for additional uses.
I've seen other videos of testing the 221 lever nuts. They don't begin to melt until around the 80 Amp mark.
And that is on a connector with a 32A rating...
Fun test, but in practice when the fuck would you ever use wire nuts or wagos on an 80 amp load?
That’s going into special connector types territory like Polaris taps.
@@ellescer It's a useful test for demonstrating the current ceiling, which in turn brings about peace of mind.
Good info, thanks. I was recently talking to another and he said he didn't like the WAGO because they score/cut into the wire. I said, other devices certainly do that, but the WAGO was a pinch/squeeze. That changed his mind. I like the WAGO's because of its easy install and clean.
And how many 'electricians' use a pair of cutters to strip the ends of wires, that cut into the conductor as they do it?
Excellent idea for a test. Yeah the manufacture of the wire nut just says just a twist it on but that's only making an electrical connection it's not making a mechanical connection, that little extra twist helps hold the bundle together and then the wire nut locks them in. I think the biggest issue we're having with the Wago connectors in the US is so many people have seen and had bad experience with backstabs on outlets which were of very poor design using only a friction fit. I've probably pulled the part 2 wire nuts that were a little toasty whereas Backstab outlets are probably closer to 5 or 10.
These are great. UL Listed safe and millions are in use right now.
Aluminum wiring was UL approved too.
@@RadioRich100 Wago's have been in use for years. Can you reference any house fire, anywhere, that was directly caused by a faulty Wago? These aren't just some new technology hitting the market. Development of their products began in the 50's.
so was aluminum wiring until about 7 years later when houses burned down left and right. Do to connections going bad. All was approved and accepted. Just like wagos. Why do you think there banned in so many places?
@@RadioRich100 Just because some jurisdictions may modify the NEC to ban WAGOs does not mean anything is wrong with the connectors.
I have not seen any electrical fire investigations where the cause was put down to a WAGO connector - although I have seen quite a few where a wire nut was blamed.
I concur his first statement is correct they cannot handle any amperage load over 3 to 4 amps I think they're great for LED light, for connecting wall plugs they are absolute know no, just like when they're okay to push the wires in back of the wall plug not a great I've seen wires turn blue and purple the newer connectors.
This is a really great test! Could you do another video comparing heat from cheap receptacle backstabs vs. screw terminals? Also, I think you should repeat your Wago vs. Wirenut test with multiple splices in series to see if there are compounding effects from increased Wago resistance over the course of an entire electrical circuit. The difference was only a few degrees F with one splice, but does it get dangerous with 6 or 12?
Don't backstab outlets, please.
It's just not a good idea, connector is different from Wago.
Good job! The bottom line for most DIY'ers, are they competent enough to even follow the well-laid-out instructions to complete the job and have it function 100% for 50 years. With the professional thought in mind, I moved into a home that a Journeyman Electrician owned and lived in, and found extremely shoddy work, or should I say re-work. He made changes and modifications that I have had to repair and or tear out. A TWISTED connection in a good wire-nut, is still a great connection.
I'm neither a teacher nor an electrician, but I'd show this to middle school kids as a demonstration of the scientific method in a real world scenario. You get a solid A for experiment design. Scottish-Canadian electrician W. P Marr patented the wire nut we know today in the 1930s. I'll betcha a hot pastrami and swiss on rye, a big-ass kosher dill pickle, and a cold beer that, if RUclips had been around then, the guys who were married to solder-&-tape connections were making these same arguments.
I'll add that I find it 'way easier to get Wagu 211s to lay flat in a box that even the smallest wire nut.
Id rather a Genos Cheesesteak from Philly
Your analogy is nonsense, its the track record of wirenuts which lasts the life of the house. Wagos are questionable at best. They like them because there quick-no other advantage and not even just as good. They put resistance between conductors. With wire nuts connections between conductors are direct. Wagos are resistors with flip levers. No lab can tell you what happens in the field overtime. Remember aluminum wiring - its cheaper! They thought that was ok too. Hundreds of homes burned to the ground. And its still happening. Take your wagos and put one on your hot pastrami sandwich and eat it.
@@RadioRich100 Sorry if I offended your religion, but I'm an infidel. It's also too bad you don't know what an analogy is.
@@neilmarsh1904 Apparently you have never googled anything.
@@RadioRich100 . . .ha ha ha 😀😳😱😨🤣 pastrami sandwich - omfg thats hilarious !!
Since I used WAGO connectors on my daughter's old house (vintage 1930's with an updated 100Amp panel), I very much appreciate your demonstration. I'm not concerned about the outlet temp readings in her house as she would not put a circuit under the loads you used.
Are wages rated for Knob and tube? Likely not. Wire nuts aren't rated for it either
As a HVAC tech I've been using WAGO for years. Wire nuts work fine and yes, you have to install them correctly. But I will tell you contrary to what all the WAGO naysayer "ELECTRICIANS" are trying to claim, the touting the supposed superiority of wirenuts. I can say, over decades of years of service, many times I have come across weak connections by "ELECTRICIANS" losing connections, particularly in multiple neutrals bundled. Also many older wire nuts I've seen with a hole burnt right through the end by heat.Usually caused by "ELECTRICIANS" poor connection technique or wrong size wire nut selection. So they are not with out their faults. I find the WAGO are fantastic for control wiring work, because you can join hard copper and stranded wires without the worry of a weak joint. Plus up to 5 wires joined together without worry of poor twisting technique. And they are removable Both work great BUT BOTH need to be installed correctly, and like all tools, each have their strength in a particular installation. The Naysayers seem to be the closed minded types.
As with any type of connection. Poor install will render it ineffective. It comes down to preference in my opinion. Both are a good connection and it does seem the Wago is more user friendly. I like wirenuts because I like wirenuts, it’s what I’m used to.
Control wiring is low current /voltage and is not house wiring. Bad workmanship is the person not the method.
If Wago would be so dangerous some is trying to claim there would be burning buildings all over Europe. I have in my life come across to melted 221, both where due to bad installation where the wire had not been striped good enough and the wago griped on to shield instead of copper. One was in one of our projects, a 90 000m2 factory, where everything is connected with wago. There are if I remember correctly for example 33 000 lights installed, a lot connected with 221 style.
I can with 100% certain say that the failure rate would be much higher with wire nuts
@@Iceeeen I dont agree. Circuits that carry high current especially motors will over time melt wagos. Lights probably wont, but lazy electricians will use them for everything. It only takes 1 wago to burn a house. Properly installed wirenuts will last forever. Properly installed wagos are a fire waiting to happen.
@@RadioRich100 Well my experience says something else. I have come across 2 melted wagos over allt the service jobs I done. Both with the same miss, badly stripped cable.
I have to ask the project department on Monday just for fun if they could how check how many wagos are used on a bigger project. We have a office that was handed over last week with 15000m2, would be perfect to get som perspective of the failure rate.
But on the other hand I can't remember the last time I was on a service with wire nuts (for any type of work) They are mostly gone.
Then again. The only thing that actually pulls any crazy amp for consider amount of time today is EV chargers and that has to be run on an own circuit from the central so no connections on the field.
HVAC is either smaller EC fans and bigger units is run with frequency drive. Mostly anything else around here with big power draw cycles and never really builds up heat anymore.
I have used some Wago lever nuts to install some basement LED surface mount lights and for some bathroom fan timers. I really like them and as others have said I like the fact that I can see through them to confirm that the connections are good. Thank you for this video.
Great job giving real world test results. I feel that the Wago is superior. Your channel is presenting info for DIY users. For those of us who have done a lot of wiring over the years, a common failure point is using a standard wire nut incorrectly. The Wago is so difficult to use improperly that it greatly lowers any issues with connecting wires inside of boxes. There is still a gigantic safety margin in using Wago connectors and they are faster to install.
For being totally very old school, I would have liked to see the temp comparison for joining the wires by twisting, soldering, and taping. I think it would be an even better result. For those who say wire nuts are safer so I am using them, then why aren’t they soldering them. Yes, way too slow.
I feel that after making 500 joints, the number of poor joints with wire nuts will be much higher than joints made with Wagos. Wagos cost more but I feel are worth it.
I don't really understand the cost problem, a Wago is less than a dollar. I completely rewired my flat two years ago, it cost me around $2500, out of which the Wagos were far less than 10%. And even that wouldn't have been too much for the added safety and durability of their spring action.
The use of the wago itself is improper. Why would you use a connector u know heats up?
Using a wago according to the manufactures instructions will cause them to fail itself. This guy is selling them, dont listen to him. Haste makes waste - wagos.
What I think about Wago is that a 5 deg difference means nothing and that they are safe to use in any situation when installed per manufacture recommendations and within specs of the device and connector. I also think they are so much easier and faster to use AND a big selling point is that they make adding a new device or swapping out an existing device super-fast and easy. Also, I would say that for a homeowner with limited experience, you probably get a better connection. Wago are much easier to do right than wire nuts and they support a wider range of AWG. I have seen many professional electricians us the wrong wire nut because of not looking at the capacity chart on the wire nut package (if they even have the package to refer to.
Excellent test! I think more temperature testing videos would be great content. Maybe try different connectors like the Ideal push in or test the difference in temperature between things like pre twisting wire nut connections or screw terminals vs back stab terminals. Measuring the voltage drop across the connectors while loaded would give us another great data point too.
This is the best way to describe wagos. Good for DIYers.
If I'm building a house, or hiring contractors to do so - Then I am 100% expecting wire nuts at minimum.
If I'm paying for anything more, then I'll opt in for those ideal screw set connectors any day.
Even dor a DIY-er though, you cannot actually see or inspect the wire connection after it is made. The same way with wire nuts, however in a solid wire situation - you twist the wires w/ pliers before, inspect for connection & then cap with the nut. The way wagos work don't allow an inspection of the wire connector - they are like the equivalent of those crimp terminals with nylon insulation, can't actually inspect the crimp.
Great move plotting the limit temp to scale the three connection options properly. I may be a mechanical engineer, not an EE, but a good experiment is a good experiment. I go Wago from here on out. I'll take a few degrees delta T at max load over an non-robust connection any day of the week.
there junk he sells them.
Wagos seem great for switches, lights and fans, mixing single strand & multistrand wires etc. I started looking at them for wiring multiple switches in a box where your having to put multiple wires in a wire nut (more than 3), creating pigtails. Less time consuming than twisting wires together with wire nuts and finding one slipped back and then having to put the wires thru doing it over. Thanks for the video!
Awesome Test. WAGO will be my go to for now.
Nice 👊
Junk
Well done video. I've used Wago and am confident they are quality. I generally don't listen to guys who say "I've been doing it this way for 30 years and not going to change." Many of those guys have been doing it wrong for 30 years and don't even know it.
Form most circuits, Wago is the best solution. For a really high amp circuit ( 30+ ) I prefer split bolt connectors. But they take up a lot of space and need insulation. LED lights have really helped to cut down circuit loads, so Wago is great.
🇨🇦/🇺🇸... A couple things. 1/ I would automatically tend toward using mechanically simpler mechanisms. 2/ Traditional wire nuts have some size overlap and so you can often ADD a circuit without changing to... hunting through your parts drawer... a new size. (not an issue for the pro who keeps an inventory on hand but sometimes an issue for the homeowner/handyman) 3/ Are a package of WAGO more expensive. (some people won't care... some will)
I am regularly using WAGO 221 and have not had any problems so far. Takes less space and makes me more confident about the connection.
Amen to that 👊
There is only 1 problem with it, sometimes the lever opens up by pushing it in the j box! Have to tape it around. I'm using it mostly for connecting light fixtures with smaller stranded gauge wires. For this application is it perfect❗️
120 degrees Fahrenheit is, coincidentally, the same maximum temperature recommended for electronics and domestic hot water. Very warm, but not uncomfortable on your skin. I can live with that. Thank you very much for your work here.
Still worry about age and moisture over time and the connection surface. Pre twisted and wire nuts just have a good feel
Great video. Yeah the WAGO is a bit hotter, but it is still well within design parameters, and perfectly safe. And the ease of use is amazing on the connectors, helping get a better connection and setup.
A bit? 10% hotter isn't a bit. A bit is more like 2%.
what design parameters? Heat and resistance is ok!! Why so you can save 30 seconds putting it in? Twisted joints dont get hot. The wago is in series with the load the wire nut is not. U just put a double resistor in series with the load. One going in one going out. Their another point of failure.
Great work and thanks for the video. I'll use WAGOs for lighting connections (connecting stranded wire to solid), but that's it. In my opinion, they are just another version of 'backstab' connections.
It would be interesting to see this test at 20A since that’s a real-world max (or breaker would trip). Would the relative temps remain similar to the test at the higher amperage? Also I’m curious what this would look like at high ambient temps, like a 100F summer day… what was the ambient temp during your test?
221 wago's are rated for 32 Amps at up to 450V. There shouldn't be a problem.
20 amp breakers don't pop at 20 amps . it's usually more
Breaker should trip at 80% of rated continuous load, so if a 20A breaker holds more than 16A load? It's bad. Replace it.
@@ChrisDavis-eq9lj That is not at all true. The 80% versus 100% rating is all about heat, and where the breaker is installed. If its installed in a box with other breakers surrounding it, it might trip at 80%. BS EN MCB breakers are even guaranteed to never pop below 113% for some period of time.
@ 40 years experience as an electrician, 30 years IBEW. Degree in electronics to boot. I'm not making it up. I know from hands on, tested with reliable, calibrated amp meters real world use. Properly working Square D and Siemens 20A breakers can handle a brief startup current of 20 amps. Extended use even in a temp service panel outside in 10 deg F temps will still result in a thermal trip if you exceed 16 amps. Crap like old Federal Pacific breakers? Yeah, I've burned holes through junction boxes dead shorting them. Breaker was so hot you couldn't touch it, but it never tripped. Federal Pacific burned buildings down and killed people. Don't call me out and say I'm a liar. Industry standard 120v branch circuit breakers in residential, commercial and industrial applications will and should not carry more than 80% of their rated capacity for more than a minute or two.
I have a wall outlet which shorted out after changing the plug receptacle. The insulation apparently cracked and blew off the neutral and ground wires. What's left is very short. I've been looking for a way to fix it without hiring an Electric Contractor and running new wires in the wall. I believe the WAGO would be most helpful in my situation. I never exceed the 20 AMP rating, which the short did trip the breaker when it happened. It looks like the WAGO would allow more room in the box for the new pigtail wires and the connector than the wire nut since my wires are so darn short. Your video helped me see the WAGO does it's job. That's what I'm looking for. The most I will run off this plug is a Window AC unit and maybe a couple of pieces of stereo equipment of low wattage. The AC unit will never be run when we're not home. I'm not that crazy.
For solid core copper wires, the Wago 221 are not the best choice. Wago 2273 are the best to use. 221s if you need to add stranded wire to the connection.
I always wondered about the small contact area of the Wago's and how hot they would get under heavy load. They don't seem to be bad at all though, even with the slightly higher operating temperature.
I will continue to use them.
Thank you for the test! BTW... nice arms!
All of these devices are listed (usually by UL here in the USA). As such they go through LOTS of testing to make sure they aren't hazardous, or are prone to do nasty things (like start fires!). Also note that the NEC is a FIRE code (sponsored by the NFPA!), so their main concern is making sure things don't start fires. So, these items are all safe when used "properly" (follow the instructions!).
They also approved aluminum wiring back in the late 60's. Wanna talk about fires? Those so called approvals can be bought. I guess the labs didnt know what dissimilar metals were.
No,no,no,no, stampy little feet. They are not American, I'M A 100 YEAR QUALIFIED ELECTRICAN (who's learnt sod all over the years and keeps doing the same old tired techniques over the year,s and using the same old rubbish products, coz' it can't be bettered) Therefore they must be rubbish. European too, so probably liberal or communist or something.
What happens to the WAGO spring pressure after it has been heating for a few years under heavy current draw? I believe the spring will weaken and resistance will go up creating even more heat. I believe copper conductors well-twisted first with pliers, and then capped with a wire nut, is a superior connection.
I saw a test where someone ran so much current the insulation on the wire melted off, and the Wago nuts were still okay. In fact, the wire nuts melted, leaving just the steel helix around the wires. But the Wago plastic was still intact (although I'm sure it was hot).
I saw that one also, that changed my mind on if I should use them. Love them more than wire nuts, but still use both depending on situation.
Retired career Navy electrician. We never use wire nuts in the Navy, but none of our wiring is solid core. All shipboard wiring is multi-stranded. So all wiring connections must have crimped connectors, from tiny valve position indicator light wires up to massive main distribution switchboard cable connectors. I've marveled at experienced construction electricians working with them, their hands a flurry of motion stripping, twisting, cutting twisted wires to same length and then twisting on a wire nut. But I never got proficient with wire nuts and I hate them. In addition, I've found too many connections done by somebody before me in two different houses where wire nuts either FELL OFF or were very loose.
So I've been using Wagos for renovation work in my house since I first discovered Wagos three years ago. I especially LOVE them for for things like connecting a new bathroom exhaust fan where you have to juggle making the connection and then fit a fan box electrical connection cover plate tab in slot and then secure with a screw...
But I've been using Wagos and Ideal equivalents exclusively instead of wire nuts.
My only comment/suggestion is that you wrap a layer or two electrical tape around the levers to ensure they don't get knocked loose while folding wires into and stuffing electrical or connection or junction boxes. This is just from my own experience where I noticed it's very easy to unlock the levers while placing the connected wires inside.
WAGO seems safe enough for me. I won't be using them under extreme conditions anyway, but it's good to know they can take it if I ever need to. Thanks, Scott. You tell 'em, brother. 👍
Thanks for the info. I just started trying out the Wago and it's nice to know I'm not making a huge mistake.
Yeah you are.
I am a fan of them over the last five years.. I like how I can disconnect the load without messing with the Hot conductor. They can be a bit pricey, but I use them in certain applications for convenience, such as light fixtures, certain motors pieces of equipment I may have to revisit. General pipe and wire I stick to wire nuts and yes, there should be a class on wire nuts because they’re quite often miss used.
👍 Well done! And well needed. Showing a comparison of improperly installed WAGOs and wire nuts would be interesting to know for a full risk assessment. Thanks for details.
Did you test with a properly twisted wire (as you've shown in other videos) covered by a wire nut? If so, what results?
Thanks for doing this, I would really like to see a multiple data set test that cycles these connections on-off over time to see how they degrade over many current cycles. The only issue I have with the Wago at this time is how much more area they occupy in the box. And yes, I agree with another comment below, Voltage drop over time would be a better test, When you introduce an IR imager there are a lot of variables you need to consider to get accurate temperature measurement.
Very interesting. Your graphs show me exactly what I would expect. No surprises, no concerns. Great video!
There garbage
@@RadioRich100 Then dont use them.
@@martyb3783 I dont, I usually pull them out on service calls after a failure complaint.
@@martyb3783 I dont , I spend enough time replacing them.
@@RadioRich100 I see. In what ways do they fail?
I love the honest review and all different perspectives. Very thorough yet to the point..
This like when plumbers were confronted with PEX and shark bites. “The world is going to come to an end”. I have used the stab ins for years and now the lever types and they work great.
I’m in Australia and we don’t use wire nuts. It’s a screwed connector. Twist the wire first and put it in the connector and do up the screw. These work with all types of wires and I think they are safer than a wire nut. Since I found the Wago connectors I’ve been using them a lot of the time. Awesome for fault finding. It does have limitations if you want to put a few wires into one connector and have limited space. Most of my work is with fire alarm systems and the Wago are the best as the current and voltages are low and unless you do a really crap job of the install there wouldn’t be many connections along the circuit to cause an issue
I would like to see a test done like this with wire nuts and wago’s that have been in service for 5 or so years to see if either of them lose spring tension
The ones I have been installing only have about 2 years of service so I have a bit longer to wait for that test 👍
exactly, the problem comes from using them over extended periods of time, after enough times of heating and cooling the wagos connection weakens, causing more heat, and the cycle just repeats until you end up with arcing and a fire.
@@SbassLaser Please provide some documentation of your claim. Apocryphal tales carry zero weight.
@@SbassLaser These aren't new. They've been in use in Europe for a decade, including commericial applications. If there was a problem, you'd have heard about it.
@buggsy5 every electrician I've asked about these have said the same thing
Thanks for the update!
I have no problems using the Wago product but would not use the off brand lever nuts from China.
IMO the Wagos give me more confidence that my connections will stay together, especially when connecting 3+ wires, and in many cases make tidying boxes easier. I'll never go back to wirenuts where I can help it.
I completely agree 💯
I echo that. I just redid a junction box that had 3 and 4 wire gangs, though I used the push-in type. I felt very sure of the connections, unlike when I was using wire nuts. The bonus was that it was way easier to stuff those wires back in the box.
Thanks for doing this, I'll keep using the Wago's
Just came across your test and Thank you !
While it is true the the WAGO have less contact surface area thus increasing resistance and heat , by no means encroaches the upper tolerance limit !
Fantastic experiment and much appreciate your time and effort !!! 🍻
I recently switched from wire nuts to Wago 221. The Wago is much easier to use and reuse. I feel more confident in the Wago than the wire nut. Two thumbs up for Wago.
I'm just about to add a couple of outlets to a 15a circuit in a bedroom (for lamps, clock radios, etc) and have been considering the Wago 221. I think I will continue and install them. Thanks!
Excellent video! The results are what I would expect- Wagos have more resistance but not enough to be an issue. Not even close. My personal belief is the issues that people have had with Wagos comes from not having the wire inserted straight and flat. If re-stripped prior to inserting all should be fine.
Yes. I use them and when I have a high load area I increase the wire gauge of the wago.
It would be interesting to test this with a continuous load. Like hook up an EV charger pulling 16 amps on the 20 amp outlet (max amp draw for 20 amp outlet for a continuous load) and see how hot a wago gets after 4 hours of continuous load. And then again at 8 or 10 hours. I'm sure it'll be well below the 105 degrees C that they are rated.
I just purchased a ChargePoint Home Flex EV charger that incorporates lever operated spring loaded connection points for 6 AWG wire (CU only) at a max 48A continuous current draw on a 60A circuit. The product is UL listed.
Thank you for covering this subject. Very informative. I did not have that question in mind,since I have been amazed with these Wago lever nuts ever since I’ve been watching some of these electrical channels using them in some of the examples I needed at the time - including yours. Heat max performance never crossed my mind, but I’m glad you addressed it.
The difference between 105 degrees and 115 degrees is not enough to worry about. More importantly, that 10 degree difference was in a circuit that was overloaded with unrealistic current flows. It would be interesting to see how the Wago connector performs in a 15-amp circuit.
It is enough to worry about,it indicates resistance is high when there new. What happens a few years down the road when the spring loses some of its tension. Wire nuts work forever.
Wago 221s are approaching 10 years on the market and no problems so far. Compare that to the numerous instances I’ve run across where wire nuts became loose.
@@glasshalffull2930 When somthing goes wrong with a wago they dont come tell you about it.
I have heard numerous people tell me they had problems with them burning.
@@RadioRich100 A picture is worth a thousand words. Never seen a failed Wago image. I’m sure if they were failing, the images would be all over the internet.