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arigatou for sharing more insights, Yam-sensei! Lots to cover and comment, with your collabs with DN-sensei and Rima-sensei inspiring ya to consider this topic! The Title -- maybe... moi's always wondered when peeps, the fans, started calling it "the Vtuber industry"? Moi has always heard indie EN Vtubers and even indie JP Vtuber calling it the "Vtuber community" early on... Was it when Hololive and Nijisanhi as well as other Vtuber agencies gained more popularity and attracted more indie Vtuber attention that even the indies started calling it "the Vtuber industry" to adopt the same "entertainment as industry" mode/mindset focusing on profiting off creators' work? Maybe what's needed is to return to monke -- I mean -- a return to roots... many Vtubers staying indie? Then form networks, creator groups... then, just like what happened with VShojo, attract investors with moolah (Gunrun-sensei etc.) who can provide support a la MCN (multichannel network) style but with total 100% creative control on the creator group, the indie Vtuber network, the core collective, and the "agency" providing techsupport and sponsorship opportunities? OR: maybe explore Vtuber cooperative modes? Wherein the Vtubers in a creator group could pool resources, form their own agency, or seek co-owners and such... The problem with agencies, as pointed out by Shogmommy-sensei, is that they're predatory... because entertainment is a capitalist, for-profit, owned only by one person or owned in corporate mode. What if the shift in approach is more social, more collaborative, more democratic, less or no hierarchy, via the coop model? So it's not going to be a neverending profit search that leads to an agency shutdown if high profitability isn't shown... PRISM Project, moi guesses, was profitable, but not within Sony's margins, so axed... What if a coop could keep profitability and share the profits with workers-creators-talents and the workers making decisions together? Wouldn't that be a better future? So the future is a return to roots... indie roots And the future is also social! gomen for unsubstantiated meandering thoughts!
I think the point about the lack of innovation is incredibly good. It makes no sense for a western company to try to replicate the idol model when it serves almost none of their needs.
Flork of Crows is starting one! Seems pretty interesting already from the idea to *not* use "attractive models" (Jokes on him, rule 34 *comes* for everyone!😂)
I felt Dokibird gave an honest assessment of indie vs joining a vtuber company. It's tough to grind and vtuber companies can offer a bigger audience and a definitive way to meet new people. Certainly though the management issues are something to consider
23:42 my problem here with indie (especially twitch) vtubers. They're too jiggly, too gooey. Tails, hair, clothes, everything is made from jelly. Even such great vtubers as Chibi and Shylilly.
I agree. I don't personally watch much vtuber content, but I find the ones with tons of extra bits and movement really distracting. Maybe I'm not in the preferred demographic, but I'd rather the avatar just express emotions, not wind turbulence.
"Less is more" - advice from the fashion world, applies to character design and just good design in general. You don't need to have every single piece of hair move on your model lol. A simple model, even a png, will work better than a model that has everything moving at once
Enjoying the video. I would point out however that while most vtuber companies fail in less than a few years i think the percentage of indie vtubers that stop is even higher.
I mean... The vast majority of anyone trying to make a break in the entertainment industry fails. Only the top 1% (maybe even less) could make a living on twitch. So this statistics is not that bad. At least, relatively.
I'm a hardcore holobro (only watch a few clips of indies through Koe or Naggz), but I think this was a really good video about the pitfalls of the industry and I dearly hope that the bigger companies change for the better overtime (though kurosanji can just fuck right off).
I'm curious as to understanding where this so called industry standard exist for lack of innovation? For as much as I hate Nijisanji, both Nijisanji and Hololive do not have these restrictions. In fact, some of the best showcases of talent and ingenuity came from these talents. There is no lack of innovation in the types of content, only the types of talents the company hires. We seen handcams, gameshows, belly dancing, music instruments, cooking, tarot reading, sock puppets, singing, drawing, botany, insect breeding etc from both Nijisanji and Hololive. The problem is that most content creators are just gamers and that is especially true for non-vtubers. The content creator space is crazy crowded and the vtubing space is equally so. The top agencies stay at the top because they hire the cream of the crop, leaving a lot of hopefuls scrambling for the rest. Respectfully speaking, indie vtubers aren't the slow and steady guaranteed success. There is nothing guaranteed about indie success. You can't claim to grind for X number of years to achieve success. Indie vtubers still require luck and opportunity to succeed. Almost all corpos, even bad ones require some level of experience in the talent before hiring. There are so many talents in corpos who have grinded out years and years in content creation, got rejected and still do so year after year applying for the top dogs, no matter how bad they are. I don't think they're naive or lack patience and certainly not in content creation experience.
Good points! When I’m talking about lack of innovation I am mostly talking about how out of the 100+ vtuber companies I studied, many of them (especially the small ones) stick to the same business model as holo and niji and aren’t trying to do their own thing! I do realize my wording when I say “slow and steady guranteed success” didn’t specify what kind of success I was referring to. Success to me as a content creator is getting to create v content you’re proud of. I was not necessarily referring to numerical success. I wish I could go back and rephrase that to be more specific!
@@YamAlbat No worries. I sort of understand what you mean by success. I think a lot of that discrepancy is in how aspirants want to use vtubing. To me, it almost feels like the arguments comparing corpos and indies often look at it strictly from the lens of making it into a career/job which has very defined metrics for success. Your points early on about the type of people who should be joining corpos stay true. IDK if many are joining with the mindset of an indie and not realizing it is going to be a job. Indie IMO is like a hobbyist. Its like joining a music label versus staying as indie musician or joining a game studio versus being an indie developer. Expecting the corpo environment to be like the indie scene seems to be a huge mismatch.
Although I agree with you about Hololive being very innovative, I really haven't seen Niji do anything particularly groundbreaking in years. Outside of perhaps the VERY early days when they were trailblazers for simply being among the very first to do big production idol style vtuber stuff like concerts etc. they really haven't been doing anything new or innovative in quite some time. I guess Niji is sort of innovative in that they are one of the few vtuber companies who went all in on male vtubers, but the amount of times we have seen Niji talents complain about their creative projects getting shut down by management is crazy. Hololive on the other hand, I agree with completely. They are doing anime, big league baseball collabs, building state of the art 3D studios, constantly branching out worldwide into other cultures, doing all kinds of crazy specials. I mean I saw them recently do a freaking full on muppet show parody for a spelling bee complete with animated muppet avatars for each talent.
So I watched this video and mulled on if I should leave this comment or not, but I feel like while this video does have good intentions, I think its heavily biased towards being an indie vtuber vs being a corp vtuber. I don't want to come off as an industry shill or anything because there are genuine bad companies that exist that do take advantage of vtubers. However, with the way how this video phrases its arguments against large/mid/smaller corps, it comes off at least misguided to almost spreading misinformation to people who would want to learn more information between being an indie vs being a corp vtuber. Here's a couple of bullet points that come to mind (out of order). -The idol agency argument: I feel like you're mostly correct in regards to why the idol format doesn't work for western vtubers, that being said they don't just do them because its the industry standard, but also because the majority of vtuber fans *do* like the idol format and prefer that format overall. It also displays various talents under one umbrella without it leaning towards specific niches. -Why do people join an Agency: I feel like people tend to forget why many smaller vtubers join an agency to begin with and its mostly for a few simple reasons. 1: Marketing. Some people will not watch indies because theres *far* too many indies in comparison to corporate vtubers and there's sonmany viwers who are willing to spend the time watching any vtuber. By watching a corpa, you weed out the indies who might not fit your prefered content and go for someone who passed the auditions and spend your time there. 2: All models and assets are paid for by the corporation. Pretty self explainatory. 3:If you have dreams of landing in a bigger corporation, having a known resume works out more rather than waiting all that time as an indie. A good example is a certain vtuber who originally was a part of MyHoloTv and then eventually becoming a Hololive vtuber. -Why are Industry Models are weaker compared to Indie Models: The main reason why the corpa models sucks for the reasons besides proprietary software is simply because of how much a new model cost. If you know your live2d riggers, all the rigs are tested on Vtube Studio before being ported on to the live 2d software covers/anycolor uses. I also feel like its fair criticism on the indie vtubing community to overvalue what the model is over anything else. While most indies dont have to spend thousands of dollars on a model, they overvalue the concept, lore, and how many toggles a model can do before thinking about the type of content they're doing as well as the software and hardware needed to run the model in the first place. It also doesn't help that the 1% of indie vtubers do uses these models frequently (ironmouse and shylily come into mind) which leads indies to being heavily misinformed that this is the content that the audience wants when they don't. As a result you have indies who want models from "brand name artists/riggers" rather than working within their own budgets and limits. Vshojo: Honestly I think this is the most egregious point you could've made within this video. The vshojo model doesn't work for most if not all corporates simply because of the fact that they're not funded by the video platform itself. Vshojo is ran by a former founder of the Twitch platform and has the necessary connections to keep the agency afloat without having to take paycuts on their merchandise sales. Because of this reason, they only take in previously established vtubers who were very popular before they reincarnated into their vshojo person and/or have their model be intergrated by the company. If they did auditions or actually scouted for random indies, they would actually have to take a percentage of the pay because they'd be running at a negative cost if that indie doesnt blow up in popularity. I do have other criticisms in your video that I feel like isn't really necessary like for example the parasocialism argument that could be a whole nother topic within itself, but I do think you are correct on one thing: 99% vtubers are not fit for the corporate environment because they fundementally forget that in there, being a vtuber is a *job*. Its okay to be a vtuber as a hobbiest, or just screwing around to pass the time. But I do think with a video like this, it misinforms your audience into thinking that indie vtubers have major leverage in the industry when in reality, the western vtuber market outside the 1%, does not even register as a blip. I guess one very last criticism can be pointed out in your own thumbnail. Dokibird, randon, U san, and Quinn would not have their current success as an indie if it wasn't for the fact of their past life of being in an agency. Because of their own talents past the agency they were in, is the reason why their fans followed them into their indie persona. The only one out of the group who differs is Nyanners, and thats only because of the content that she did for the last decade that's been pre-established is why shes also able to see success as an indie. I hope you would consider this comment and Im always down for having an extended conversation if you want.
Thank you for leaving your comment! This is definitely an opinion piece and I very much acknowledge my bias. I discussed this more in Part 1 of this series but my opinions on agencies are unfortunately shaped by my experience with multiple agencies on both the staff and talent side. These videos have been my way of warning others about the bad experiences my friends and I have had without breaking any NDAs. I DO want VTuber agencies to exist, I also want the 10% of VTubers who do belong in agencies to get treated fairly! Your points are also very much valid and I appreciate you sharing them! You cannot beat agencies in marketing and discoverability, but I would definitely tell aspiring agency VTubers to weigh the tradeoffs of signing a contract with an agency. I used Doki and friends in the thumbnail because they are both recognizable and they are the VTubers who support my 10th point in this video- agencies are only useful up until a point.
@YamAlbat Thanks for your reply! I think something that would be a better equivalent for the western vtubing scene would be the japanese indie scene since smaller vtuber there are as documented as much as the more well-known ones. Maybe it might be an interesting topic to touch on?
I'm glad to hear it. I myself have had a lot of toxic experiences in this industry and that is why I dedicated the past 2 months to writing 2 videos on how the industry can be predatory and needs to change. I really hope things change for the better for the industry-minded individuals that would like the make this their career!
Amazing sequel to the last video!! I completely agree with the perspectives given but couldn't have explained it better. I would also add the obvious "i want to be in the same agency/corpo as my oshi to be their friend" or "i want to be in an agency to have a better chance to collab with my oshi who's in another (maybe) reachable agency" reason as for people still wanting to be part of obviously horrendous agencies aside from the discoverability. Sadly people underestimate the consequences of applying to these and that's why I appreciate (and I think a lot of people do too) you for making theses series of videos which will save some people's time, money, mental health, etc. Even if it's just one person that changed their mind, you've already done an amazing job. THANK YOU, YAM ALGOAT PS:Idk if you are or you mentioned being one but I think you are a natural teacher 🤣 Like putting information in their simplest and concise form is not easy at all and it could be the magic of the script, but being able to write a script this good, engageable and simple every essay you make is, imo, your strongest quality :3
Aww thank you! I agree that there are a lot of people who want to join for that reason, and it’s concerning! I actually dream of becoming a teacher someday! Thank you for your kind words!
@@YamAlbat lets gooo, i'm sure Your dream Will come true. And yeah, the only time Ive ever applied to one was in fact Niji and for that reason. As soon as I applied i realized My mistake but thank god My half assed attempt and 0 experience Made me do a Bad enough application lmao
Thank you for continuing to talk about this subject. I've been on the fence about what would be better to do. At first agency felt like the obvious better choice, but over time as things develop it's become more complicated. Here is my current dilemma. On one hand I would be interested in further developing my talents and connecting with an audience and other talents. However I lack the funding, experience, and know-how that comes from being a professional or coming from certain backgrounds. So I'm torn where I feel like at indie I could go at my own pace and style, but not be guaranteed to get lucky. And as a certain gender, I do feel that pressure to succeed younger rather than take decades to get there. I fear that if I don't even try to join I will regret never trying. Then on the other end, if I did go the agency route I don't know if I'd be able to maintain expectations. I'm familiar with idol culture and the anime fandom. However, for various reasons I often get bouts of burnout, and I don't know if I'd be able to be consistent enough. I'm also uncertain if I'd be able to take the heat for making mistakes. But I am passionate about the community and would love to give the singing dancing idea a try. I don't know if I'd ever get enough funding to do that solo. I'm still not sure what to do. I normally wouldn't post in this much detail but I'm hoping maybe someone else might have potential options to consider.
@@YamAlbat Thank you for the reply and support! I'll try not to rush too much. Either way I go I still need to figure out indie first, so I'll focus on that for now.
You're saying what so many people need to hear! Many people beat themselves up for not getting accepted into agencies, or for things going wrong once they're in one, but most people truly aren't built for the grinds and slogs of corporate life. It's not all fame and fortune, but its also not always the doom and gloom of corporate greed either. On a kinda un-related note, I had no idea this has been uploaded for like a month now! The Algorithm has yet to put your uploads in my feed in a timely manner and that breaks my heart. The quality of your content far surpasses any compliments I could attempt to throw your way, and seeing that you retain that quality and positivity despite RUclips being a jerk is inspiring to say the least. I found my way here through your newest short (which did grace its way onto my screen!) and I hope that's a good sign for things to come! You truly truly deserve it
thank you so much for taking the time to say so! unfortunately I got in trouble with youtube and they suppressed me in the algorithm for 6 months until I completed training and waited for my probation period to end. That is probably why the algo isn't serving you my videos anymore! Thank you for going out of your way to find my content!
An informative video, i appreciate the opinions. Even if I don't agree with all of them lol. For the extremes I actually prefer stiffer models over overly bouncy models that go too far and make everything look like it has jiggly booba physics lol. It can be offputting sometimes and harder to look at for me. I also think previous corpos who are now indie should be considered a special case from an indie from the get go. Because they amassed a lot of their audience and success that translated to their indie persona as a result of some of the positives that came with corpos. It is not the same as someone starting from scratch imo.
Thanks for your comment and adding your thoughts! I personally love that indies can choose what style of rigging they go with. I’m not too keen on the overly jiggly physics, but I very much still treasure facial expressions and hair movement (as you can probably can tell from my model). As for the 2nd point, I totally get where you’re coming from! Like I mentioned in the video, no one can beat an agency’s discoverability. These talents were discovered by many because of their agency status. However, in order to get into those agencies they already had to be established and talented independent creators first. It all depends on how you view it! I had all ex agency VTubers in the thumbnail because they are both recognizable and also help to support my 10th point (agencies are only helpful up until a point). Thanks again for the comment!
On the note of lack of innovation in terms of content, I'd like to mention Nikki from idol who does some woodworking and general crafting streams which is super cool and unique.
Don't take this the wrong way but I feel like you're point 10 is ignorant of a lot of factors of why an agency is useful. Sure, that person can go off and become their own boss, be creatively free, etc., but there's a huge downside that IS having to be your own boss. It's both a lot of stress and money to provide entirely for yourself to provide all the things an agency can take care of for you, so you're taking on more stress and fronting a lot more expenses meaning your increase in profit is not nearly as much as you'd think, and that's not even mentioning other creative aid like access to mocap studios, which is far outside the average persons budget. For a recent example that shows my point, Dokibird, one of the vtubers who you said supports your point 10 according to your comments, just admitted to missing a huge convention oppurtunity because she wasn't checking her email frequently enough, something that would not happen at any half decent corpo. She had to take a day off just to do that herself, which is both a stress point and a loss of stream time and profit. IMO if your hypothesis is true here, the large majority of say, the Hololive EN talents would've left already, or hell even Idol EN or Phase talents, but that's just not the case because they get far more benefits in the background that we, the viewer, never directly perceive. I just don't think it's so black and white, it's a game of pros and cons with this stuff, as I know well personally being from a family who runs our own business, it's definitely not all sunshine and rainbows. It's really a case by case basis depending on what the individual wants and needs from content creation, as to be very frank, most people just are not cut out to run a business or be their own boss from my experience. Either way, have a good day and nice video.
Thanks for the comment! You make a great point! I think 10% of people do belong in GOOD agencies for that reason! This is my opinion piece, and you can tell i prefer to be in control of my own creative endeavors. I respect the good agencies and their partnered talents who are thriving!
checking your email does not require an agency, but the agency would like to make both talent and audiences believe that it does. professional independent talent hire personal assistants and business managers to handle this stuff without also telling the talent what to do. agencies are pimps and nothing more. they take a middleman cut and give orders and are parasites. real actual irl talent in every american industry hires staff to deal with whatever business chores they don't want to deal with personally, ask any well-known actor or musician.
as i'm nearing the end of my university studies, the reality of needing to earn money starts to sink in. i've thought about content creation and freelancing as a career path, but was wary of their stability. besides one compulsory internship, i don't have other work experience. your video has helped put into perspective the state of v-tubing as a potential job. thank you for the wonderful discussion and the document detailing the how-tos of networking and establishing oneself! these pointers will come in very handy for not only people interested in v-tubing, but also content creation as a whole.
@@YamAlbat Haha, you did mention that in the video! “Doing something you find fun sounds nice, but when you have to do it as a job, it becomes a chore” or along the lines. I agree with that statement, as an artistic person. It’s nice to do something I find enjoyment in, but when it becomes something I must do to survive, it sucks out the fun in it. Perhaps handling it moderately is the way to go. Have some as a job, and have some as a hobby. If the hobby ends up generating income, that’s a bonus too ^^
There's one thing I'd like to see more of talked about by indies in general. Merchandising. There seem to be a lot of predatory actors out there that take advantage of Vtubers and other groups. This is a topic I'd like to see covered more in the future.
Insightful and well thought out video as always. I feel like the VTubing space is very much going through the same motions normal content creation went some years ago with companies like Machinima and other MCNs having some similar predatory practices to what we see today. Gradually things moved to a more creator first environment we have today with talent agencies and creator orgs. I'd like to add a few things. One is that even as a big content creator with your own team, you still have a large amount of offline work to manage said team and can still be taken advantage of by companies offering partnerships like Bao, Yuzu and Amalee recently were. Even Kson said that she got scammed various times and that was one of the big reasons she joined VShojo. Speaking of VShojo, I wouldn't say they came to understand that they need to change to keep their talents, they had this talent first business model and freedoms from the beginning. The reason for that imo is that they just started with modern practices while other companies were using practices from over 10 years ago. They were simply setup and still remain as a modern creator org format like OfflineTV and OTK. It only felt new, because the other well known companies were following the japanese model. I don't even think they need to expand too much, what we really need is for more content orgs to appear. 3am and Vchiban seem to be doing ok. Their talents are growing very well and they have basically the same model as VShojo.
Vshoujo is not different because it uses modern practices, is different because it has a totally different business model. Vshoujo is a management company, not a vtuber agency. Their business model, is in managing talents. Niji and especially Hololive, are more like Marver or DC. Their business is in creating and commercializing IP. And just like Marvel hires artists and writers to make comics using their IP, Cover and Anycolor hire people to give life to theirs. So streaming is not the goal, but just a means to a goal. So obviously those companies need more thing control. Owning the IP is logical, is theirs. Gura for example, as an IP, is now worth likely millions if not tens of millions of dollars. You just can't give it away to the streamer.
@@davidgreen5994 it is modern practices because that's how creator agencies work today vs how MCNs worked 10 years ago. Machinima owned bought Smosh and the agency owning channel was seen as normal back then. Now it isn't. It's only seen as normal in the vtubing space because the japanese content creator economy is going through the same process the western one went through in the last 10 years. I agree on the jp ones being more like media companies than agencies though. Lots of people get those mixed up.
Interesting. I'm relatively new to the vtubing world, and before watching this video I had assumed that indies had inferior models. So glad to admit I was wrong.
Because a vast majority _learn to make it themselves_ (or can only afford to buy from someone who did) they are often superiour. Just check out moth girl Juniper and her *full on moth alt mode!* Very cool 😎
I wouldn't say cross out all agencies, I've been keeping tabs on some small indies who have been streaming for years with little followings. I've been around the many vtuber fandoms and especially the subreddits, Indies graduates and quits almost on a weekly basis. Every once a week, someone vents about how they don't get any attention, every once a week, someone quits. It's the reality of the entertainment industry, if you don't get exposure, no one will know you exist. Just keep in mind that they shouldn't jump at the opportunity to sign with the first agency they come across and actually evaluate whether or not the collaboration would be beneficial. And if the agency asks for them to create a new IP (So act under a new persona), without a doubt, give it a second thought, a triple thought, a quadruple thought, as many as you need to be certain. Going under a new persona essentially means that you are trusting this agency to give you an (almost) entirely new career in a sense. Your growth will be entirely dependent on the agency and if you ever are graduated, you only manage to bring a certain amount of what you gain during at your time at the agency whether that'd be followings or capitals. So what I'm trying to say is, keep on the grind daily doesn't = success. Especially if you're trying to make it your career.
As far as the models go that company's use, I feel like in the case of the BIG corpos the reason why they don't go all out with the models is actually more about consistency than cost. For example, in Hololive it is very clear that the talents have certain things that they can and can't get and the company tries to keep these things consistent for each talent for fairness. In fact, something that came up last year was the fact that the EN branch felt like they weren't getting the same 3D opportunities as the JP members and now we see that turning around with the company tightening up what sorts of 3D things they'll do so that it's fair for all the talents. Now, I also do see all the cool and crazy things that Vtuber models can do now and while I certainly think it is cool I'm also quite amazed by how much some of these corpo talents are able to shine with the limited models that they do have. I also don't really see this changing unless there's some massive overhaul to the fundamental system that can be applied to ALL of their talents but at the same time I think it's kind of fitting that the indie Vtubers use this as an avenue to separate themselves from the corpos to help spread the good word of Vtubers.
I may have missed it but if i didnt, they didnt mention financial security. Corpo will give a salary+and benefits. Basically think of artists, do you really think indies will make more money or gain more popularity than corpo? I feel like they are just using doki as the main example but in general, corpo is better. Just a matter of if you can fine companies like cover and not the black companies. A black company could be a ticket to getting your main fans though like doki and matarakahn. To sum up, i still think corpo is the better choice
Id say less than half of agencies out there offer salaries and benefits. In fact, agencies make you sign as an independent contractor so that they don’t have to offer you benefits. It’s really unfortunate.
@YamAlbat ok. Those black companies really got to stop. They need a certain person to do this. Like jyj did in the kpop industry. I still remember their slave contract era. Too bad jyj got an eternal ban from the 3 big channels but they changed the whole industry. The vtuber industry needs such a case as well
Lindybeige did a great video on agents. A real estate agent might promise to sell a house at the highest possible price to attract clients, as everyone wants to maximize their profit. However, selling at top dollar often requires more time and effort due to various factors, such as market conditions, a smaller pool of potential buyers, and more intense negotiations. In contrast, pricing homes at market value can lead to quicker sales, consistent income through frequent commissions, and a stronger reputation. While aiming for the highest price is often what the client wants, consistently selling at market value can be more practical and sustainable for the agent.
also the irony is that to join VShojo you have to already basically have done every thing you would want to get from VShojo ... so i guess is the Bragging Rights Agency🤣
There is actually a few things that VShojo offers that indies cannot get easily, which are: - legal help - access to industry connections - access to motion capture studios
Thanks for the feedback! Each and every one of these creators established themselves before joining an agency. They did gain more popularity in an agency than as an indie because agencies offer a lot of discoverability as I cover in the video. Nyanners is still my definition of an independent creator because she does not have corporate higher ups dictating her content. Hope that helps!
So eh... By the definitions you give at the start, VShojo isn't corpo, but you put them in the corpo category anyway and talk about them like they're corpo? Because, like, VShojo as a company didn't change how they do business, they've always been a western talent management agency (like Mythic or UTA or YMU), just one that specialises exclusively in VTubers. It's only confusing for fans because VShojo is the name of both the company and the 'independent VTuber group' (going by the definitions at the start of the video) of the talents that are clients of the company. VShojo has never owned the models of their talents or restricted what they could do. VShojo talents aren't now, nor have they ever been, employees of the agency, but rather they have been clients who pay the agency for certain services (the standard talent management package, though tailored to VTubers' needs).
"The vtuber market isn't oversaturated, we just haven't aren't exploring any other niche." THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING. Most agency and indie vtubers just keep to the same type of content. Either gaming or zatsu's. Vtubers like Rin Penrose and Filian have been exploring other ways to innovate content with gameshows and tournaments and anything other than "play game and interact with chat". It's not like I have any problem with that type of content. Heck, my oshi usually keeps to that, but it is nice to have a variety of other content that vtubers can look into.
I've actually picked up doing gunpla streams as of this year and it's been an absolute blast. I've also taken my subscribers to a local museum that was a hands-on experience and it was a lot of fun. I can't wait to do more type of content like this. There's more out there than gaming that's for sure. And even if you do zatsu's you can do stuff while having chatting it's honestly a lot of fun. I hope more people start looking into more than just "let's play the newest pokemon".
I don't think you really watch corpo's. Tournaments, gameshow, festivals, and all sort of events, are an old tradition in both Niji and Hololive. They happen all around the year, and they are so ingrained in tradition, that we even know the dates they happen manually.
@@davidgreen5994 I'm talking about the vtubers content, not content that their agency produces.What I'm saying is that the vtubers themselves most of the time don't have that variety in content that can distinguish themselves from the main branch of vtubers, corpo or indie.
I think another issue with corporate vtubing is that it's inherently exclusionary, because it has to be. The only way for a corporation to actually work to bring their talents popularity is if they create an image of highly curated talents. Niji has always had an issue with this in the western fandom especially, when they started bringing in too many people the audience backlash got more and more intense, feeling like the company was dragging its image down by over saturating itself. Companies that want to maintain that feelings of curation, even companies like vshojo, will always have to be an exclusionary club to maintain that image. I hear how many people talk about vshojo being the retirement home for ex niji members, but even for their invitation-only structure, they're gonna have to reach a point where they turn away some of those ex talents.
Vshojo while yes feeding a little into the joke of only hiring retired vtubers from other agencies is definitely very exclusive and won’t be accepting every retired talent out there. Considering it seems the requirements are to be very close friends with some of the agency talents and then also have a large enough following already as a streamer it definitely feels exclusionary to get in. I know they had their own disaster when they initially tried to do auditions but it’s unfortunate that unlike other agencies they seem like they won’t take a chance on lesser known talent that even Niji and Holo try (although don’t get me wrong everyone who joins even those agencies have content experience too).
@@niconojuegos, As far as I know, Ao-kun from ReGlos (Holo) has never been involved in Internet content before. That's what I heard. Of course, this is an exception to the rule, at least the current one.
@@Arik-bb3rw yeah I’m just saying mostly you need at least a little of experience in content creation for hololive even if it’s not necessarily the most successful. Idk about Ao but that’s cool if they made it in with almost no experience
@@niconojuegos I wouldn't say that VShojo is any more exclusionary than others just because it's invite-only. At the end of the day they bring in just as many talents per year as HoloEN does and Niji is no stranger to getting people who were friends before. In my opinion they feel less exclusionary because they're way more integrated with the Twitch indie scene. They collab with small indies all the time and iclude them in their events. They even had 2 minecraft servers open to indies. If the biggest benefit of joining an agency is getting more eyes on you, then VShojo has been providing that to loads of small indies without even requiring them to join.
about corpo’s only streaming on a single platform.. this is most of the time because that platform is one of the investors of that vtuber agency (so they are contractually not allowed to make use of alternate platforms, unless stated (this includes restream), it is also the reason vtubers tend to have a hard time setting up collabs with vtubers on other platforms)
I miss hitbox, it was just too ambitious an idea. 😔 Platform that functioned more like a program, you could multi with a flip of your wrist! Unfortunately they had poor mobile compatibility at a time mobile was exploding, and big agencies being Japanese based utilised hefty smartphones more than PC. For those with cams/PC it was the superiour choice, but they were clearly developed by PC soloists and fell behind the streaming content sphere, for shame! 😞
Thank you for making this. Had a lot of similar suspicions before and feel glad that someone else would share them as well. While I still haven’t entirely given up on the thought of creating a vtuber model for some of my content I am absolutely certain that it will be indie only. I just don’t get the appeal of idol industries anymore when communities like VRChat serve the same purpose of interacting with other people only it’s way better without all of the commercial bureaucracy. Just make your character by affordable means and use it with whatever you want. Nuff said.
I really don't understand why some people get so attached to corporations. Why become loyal to a lifeless entity instead of the talents and creators in their ranks? Some people get so upset when a corpo VTuber goes indie and I'm like, they're still around. Just not working for a corporation anymore. Also, speaking of models, Limealicious has one of the best models in the industry. It's so bouncy and full of life. Not to mention her outfit toggles.
dude so much of the video got corrupted when one of my hard drives failed that i had to cover it with other footage the DAY BEFORE THE UPLOAD, looks i missed a spot teehee
Indie for indie is always an option! (V4mirai) Managers and director are Vtubers too! The way they kept calling Biscotti their "daughter" during her graduation was so sweet😌
No the future is doing what works and doing it right. It doesn’t matter if you’re indie or cropo as long as you are entertaining your audience and giving them a sense of escapism from the real world.
Indie is the future. Look what happened to Pomu. On a completely unrelated note, Mint Fantome's Twitter is no longer private and has had activity since March 6th. I think this old school indie might be coming back.
Tbf it should be considered that many of the indie vtubers who are now big got big through Nijisanji. With all due respect to vtubers like Doki and who Pomu is now they would not have the subs they do now if they did not have the benefit of being Nijisanji before. They got their name outs on a big platform that 99% of indie vtubers will not. Its not fair to treat Pomu and Doki the same as an indie who starts from nothing
The vshojo model? You mean hoovering up known talents by nepotism and then don't do much as a group anyway? Niji gets a bad rep for all the right reasons now, but it's strange to see hololive being lumped in with them. Holo invest in their talents, clearly, their bottom line is smaller than niji, new 3d studio, talent ran events funded, etc etc I think hololive is doing just fine and making a lot of money at it as well, indie will always have the freedom of them being indie but also the hardest way to do very big stuff, it's the trade-off many are happy to make and keep making, if hololive was losing talents left and right in jp/id/en i'd be more inclined to agree. That's just not happening now is it? The only two people who left because they really wanted to, were Sana who left because she just couldn't get into the groove of vtubing plus her art career, Coco didn't want to follow along with the heavy focus on idol stuff plus the Taiwan thing probably didn't help either. Rest is breaking of nda/contract, which is always the worst thing to happen especially to the talent/fans but not because they didn't want to continue anymore.
VShojo does a lot as a group. Matara, Haruka, and Zentreya are collabing right now. And they're going to have a huge VShojo collab after Mouse's new outfit debut tonight.
Sane comment. If anything, Vshojo is a great example of why corporate vtubers have their place. Vshojo's model is entirely superficial and leeching, trying to profit from the association an agency label provides, while touting the clout of "independence" that directly conflicts with it being meaningful. It can never yield the same kind of scale, opportunity, and success for individual talents compared to an organization like Hololive, which has the necessary structure and coherence to do so. Hololive has also done a great job of keeping the entertainment space solely about entertainment, mitigating the drama and activism that internet personalities at large are prone to engaging in as they become too big for their britches. The moderation and editing might lead to talents not being able to do certain things they might like to, but that goes with the territory of trying to maintain a working business model.
This is also dumb because how many indies actually last or gain even tiny recognitions? Corpos give you the support team and you get people to help you become better. This take by the channel owner is a bit weird. Also.... vshojo model... idk... all I can say is, if you can get into holo, get in. Another thing I can't agree with her take is that doki was a not so successful indie vtuber before niji from what I know. She gained her popularity from niji and the recent kurosanji arc. Did she seriously suggest going indie? Lmao. Does she even know how many indies are even struggling to get 50 or 100 views everyday? I've seen some that stream 11 hours a day and all they get is around 700 views. Idk, I think a salary+benefits+alpha+ fans >>>>>>>> being indie, who will have to plan and do everything on their own
Holo is being lumped up with Niji because their business models are basically the same. Just because one is not utterly incompetent and creates a better environment, doesn't mean the practices are suddenly not predatory. Not every single point applies to every agency, but I bet I could put their contract and Nijisanji's in front of you and you wouldn't be able to tell which is which. Your VShojo points don't make much sense. It's a creator org. Creator orgs scout people that mesh well together. When was the last tiome OTK and OTV brought in an unknown creator that no one in the org knew? That's just you projecting your expectations where they don't fit. They absolutely do loads of things as a group, this point just shows that you don't watch them.
@@7Seven-Four4 Isn't "trying to profit from the association an agency label provides" basically what every single agency does? I really don't understand what you mean by leeching. You mean leeching from each other? Isn't doing collabs with other members an integral part of being part of a group? Maybe you mean leeching from the company's brand. As in every recent Holo debut having over 100k subscribers before debut? That's 100% company brand alone. Or maybe lastly you mean the company leeching from the talents. That one also doesn't hold up as talents grew a lot when joining VShojo. Henya is more than double the size she was before, same with Geega, Matara and Haruka. I'm not even including the founding members here, but they all grew a LOT since the company started. We can like things despite the flaws. No company is perfect. They all have their problems, but the ones you pointed out are not it.
I 100% agree it's indie or if you wanna be a pop star you go and apply to Hololive. And I guess Vspo for a Esports team. But those are the only exceptions as of now. Anything else doesn't make sense (other then you want to make friends but theres better ways to do that). Well if the company can offer you a set and stable salary that you can live off on despite whatever your viewer count or donations/membership goes. Then yeah that makes sense too why people might wanna join an agency.
Honestly I hope indie stuff becomes sustainable not just for VTubers but for all creators cause all companies are doing is showing how little they care about the people who make them money
13:22 lack of innovation It is amazing that Phase Connect only check one box from the list you give here: all female talent. But they give their talents freedom to do anything, from twitch, musical instrument, handcam, different designs. Even the branding is different (sad girl company) Also no one can say Pippa is safer investment in the beginning
No, Indie is not the future... is like saying that short animation on RUclips will replace the anime industry. The magic of vtubing is in the corpo. And it will always be like that. The content that and the value a corpo creates is in a whole different league from the indie. I think that your take on peoples joining an agency for visibility is flawed. That was the case in 2020, but now... Today, you don't join Hololive for example, for visibility, you join it because it's a place where you can fulfill your dreams and aspirations. Or for some, being in Hololive is the dream in itself. Hololive already has in talents that had substantial following on their personal account, so they didn't lack visibility. Moreover, they give the freedom to their talents to still stream on their own account as an indie if they want, and a bunch of them do exactly that. You are also wrong about ownership. I've seen plenty agency going down, but letting their talents keep their models and channels. In Hololive for example, talents hold rights over some project they pay for. They can't own the MV's because it uses IP that is not theirs, but they hold total ownership of the songs they paid for or made themselves. They also have the option to sell them to Cover. When it comes to restrictions, those are necessary. Again, Hololive for example had to create content restrictions, because in 2020-2021, RUclips started to hit them with a wave of demonetizations. So they had to adapt their rules to RUclips's terms of services. But they don't really need to ask permission for everything they do. and they got very lax rules, especially now that Hololive is so big. I don't think design and rigging is that important. I've seen plenty of examples over the years of indies that went viral for some great model, and then fell in obscurity once the novelty dried up. A model with too many details or functions, will just became a gimmick and distract the viewer. Is the talent behind the model that is most important. Someone like Pekora, Korone or Miko, who are able to give life to their model in such way that you can't imagine a human behind it, will always dominate any vtuber with a top-notch model.
I’m so glad hololive is the exception for these things! Unfortunately there are hundreds of obscure and predatory agencies that VTubers join every day in hopes that they are joining an organization like hololive. I have worked for some of these companies, and my friends have joined these agencies before. This video and last month’s video were inspired by our experiences. I hope that puts this video into perspective for you!
@@YamAlbat Ah that gives the video a lot more prospective, in the graphics ( not sure i you call in english the visual aids that provide context to wha you are saying) mostly had the "big" corporations, but i guess you use those so people recognize what you mean. love your content, keep up the good work!
I’d say that your perception of the designs as safe (and more uniform than the medium requires) is correct, but not necessarily in the way that your main argument suggests. They’re safe because they’re broadly going with an issue avoidance tactic rather than a broad-appeal one (this is specifically for established agencies - idk why a newly formed agency would go with this). Specifically, a model that is a normal human with normal human features is gonna be fine no matter what. Similarly, mammalian and corvid flair features (dog/cat ears, feathers, etc) are fine by basically everybody. Contrast that with something like Juniper’s giant moth form, Layna Lazar’s open-ribcage model, or even the worm that Joel has on his face in one of his models (yes, that last one is what got me personally). In those cases, you aren’t risking the model being a bit weird - you’re risking triggering some of the more common phobias. As a result, you’re not going to see any companies going for those sorts of models. (To be clear, I’m not knocking VTubers with models like that - they’re cool concepts, just potentially iffy for a corporation) As for the simplicity of the rigging, I’ve got nothing (aside from the cost of updating the entire agency in one go). It pretty much screams, “corporate has decided that consistency across our ventures will provide compounding operational efficiency”. (Yes, that was painful to type)
Is not only that, but models have to be simple and practical enough, to translate well in different mediums. They are going to be made into figurines, some will be adapted in manga, and animation. You also don't want to be cursed by the fans when they do fanart. I remember people bitching a lot about Irys from Hololive, due to all the details on her old design, that made fanart into a tiring undertaking.
Honestly if i ever joined a agency it would be for the legal resources as in i don't wanna deal with copy right disputes myself as it's a pain in the ass. And if i join one and got big enough the only reason why i would stay would be for the legal help unless i got a better deal else where. Pretty much i would try to use it like a MCN and pretty much what VShojo is It really is a revival of MCN's (Milti Channel Network) if anyone remember those, like the future is the revival as you get discoverability because of being associated with a MCN and can do whatever you want in terms of content And i know what some of you are thinking but no MCN's are different from Brand accounts as MCN's gets the added benefits of region locking the channel's videos, as in if you get copy right claimed by Japan then you can just make sure Japan does not see your videos and then they can't copy right claim you. Now i don't actually know if RUclips still allows for people to make MCN accounts or not but they are sought after accounts just for the region locking alone so you would be paying a pretty penny for one. Like no one wants to deal with copyright claims because of fair use and Japan does not recognize fair use existing but we have to deal with it if we are not apart of a MCN to make our videos to not be able to be shown to Japan thus the bots for Japan RUclips will not copyright claim you as they can't see it. Like if somehow Agencies gained access to MCN capabilities such as region locking videos then that alone will generate a lot of value to get someone to stay in the company despite that should be a basic feature on RUclips to be able to region lock your stuff yourself Imagine a VTuber agency actually happens to be using a old MCN account that they bought then rebranded to the main account. Suddenly what they have to offer is way better than most agencies as if you think about it a VTuber agency is a lesser MCN. Also just note if somehow you can make a actual MCN account you need to have your channel monetized first but most importantly YOU NEED TO GET INTO CONTACT WITH RUclips in order to even start the process of turning a account into a actual MCN, and we all know that getting into contact is the difficult part. The process is intentionally hard and or obscure otherwise everyone would have one but i honestly think it would be greatly beneficial to the agency if they had their own MCN as they get so much more tools to help the connected accounts that should be basic for everyone but are not Again i don't know if RUclips still allows for MCN's to be created but if they do then agencies need to be on that as they already act like one for their talents that work for them, so something that would make it easier to make money is welcomed. But again the first step is actually getting RUclips partnered as in monetized otherwise you can't turn your channel into a MCN at best you can do a brand account. Funny thing about a Brand Account is it used to be worse to have than a regular RUclips account as you could only have 1 link in the banner while regular accounts could have either up to 5 or 4, but eventually they removed the ability to put links in the banner altogether so now no down sides to a brand account as pretty much if you have more than 1 account you don't have to sign in with different passwords just click switch account. You still need to write down the passwords or remember them for other stuff such as applying for partner as you need to sign into the actual account and not through the brand account Honestly VTuber Agencies NEEDS to have a MCN. Fun fact you can immediately monetize a channel through a MCN they don't need to meat the usual requirements so when debuting a new person you can immediately go into the content manager dashboard and monetize them. I am not lying about that if you have a MCN it is so beneficial to both the owner and creators that join it Here is a simple guide on if you wanna make a MCN yourself Step 1: Manage and monetize many channels of good QUALITY Step 2: Ask RUclips support or your agent that is assigned to you when you passed a certain number of subs If they think you qualify they will turn it into a MCN, and yeah the quality part is vague as it is pretty much if RUclips decides. Pretty much you have to prove that you have already been doing MCN type of work which most VTuber agencies do so if they apply they might get approved
Great video! I don't have a head for art/ design, so it's interesting to finally hear someone put words to the lingering thoughts I've had on VTuber designs. I'm inclined to believe that agencies may head more and more toward VShojo's model in the future. Especially now that abusive industry practices are being brought to light, I can see a much stronger stigma developing toward traditional agencies that try to follow the "Idol Agency" model. Given that many western fans seem to gravitate toward less- filtered, more diverse content offerings, I could see the role of agencies shifting to a logistical support role whose main offer is a common pool of permissions and merchandising, rather than putting the agency's "brand" at the forefront like Holo and Niji. The biggest shift that I can see coming is when Japanese and Korean companies develop the cultural and linguistic proficieny necessary to operate in the West
Literally every major agency that is growing in Japan right now is building on the idol agency model, because Hololive set a standard that nobody can ignore. Even groups that where focused on different niches, like VSPO, which is an Esports group, are putting their foot in the idol puddle. Less than a month ago, Hololive held Holofes - their own convention, which sold 86k tickets, and held 2 concerts each day, all sold out, with 16-20k attendees. Some of the Hololive talents are also exploding on the music scene, to a normie audience. Any agency that wants to go public or has investors, will be asked by their investors why their agency is not creating the opportunities Hololive creates for their talents. All will feel that they lose money if they don't walk in Cover's footsteps. As for the Korean companies and agencies, they are building vtubing agencies on the Kpop model, so...
I plan to stick to the indie route. I have my model currently being made by an artist right now and it looks so good I am excited she is my skin tone and everything it makes me motivated to make content I can't wait until she is done.
I just realized after 3 months of this video there is nyanners in the thumbnail i hate her so much she was erased from my memory i wouldn't go into it because everyone back in 2016 already knows
the corpo brainrot in the comments is really disturbing, politically. the abusive nature of these "agencies" is exhaustively documented and completely outrageous. but i also don't understand why people support k-pop with the level of abuse and control that occurs to the talent, which again, is extremely well-documented
@@YamAlbatthat would be nice! but now i've got the mental image of a western vtuber industry doing something like the x factor for their auditions LMAO
@@DrachenIvy "How did I do?" "A 2 view could sing better than that. Chat spamming ears bleeding would be too kind for you. Your audition tape would have no views but unfortunately I still had to hear it."
There are only a handful of innovative Idie VTubers out there. The only few that I can think of are Neuro and Fillian, and I don't even watch them. Most indie VTubers do the same as corporate VTubers. Corpo Vtubers are trendsetters and everybody is just ridin along. Additionally, most indie VTubers on Twitch waste time watching RUclips videos with their models is that innovation? And also, most indies who manage to build their own audience do so because they are friends or fans of a corporate VTuber. By only mentioning a corporate VTuber's name, they can manage to attract some audience by being a fan/friend of that persona. This video is a perfect example of making content out of corpo Vtubers cause thats the most easiest way to gain traction in this space it doesn't matter if is good or bad poorly research video.
They have hired out of previous auditions, so make up sure you really can't! 😅 I think it was Subaru who was the one that "just got in," or one of her genmates
A free model, but a good one that's male? That's not going to happen because that's so rarely made. You look on the VTube studio workshop and you can't find anything good. It becomes pretty much mandatory to use more that $1000 on a basic model. It's also impossible for someone like me to get a freaking iPhone. A $1000 plus phone is beyond the price point of a person on social assistance. So in the end it's pretty much mandatory to spend a number of months putting together a full VR setup to stream with. Unless someone knows a source of good, free male models I don't know exists? When it comes to segregation it's being worn down for talents including with hololive doing marketing involving talents from both live and stars. I have a particular plan that would allow for the transition from how it is to something new. My plan would actually not only keep the unicorns but get new people and even subtly change the taste of the unicorns. But ultimately it would have to be a slow and steady change to keep the unicorns present. It's impossible to say details that are worked out as for all I know you would take that and make a video about it. Such a thing could get lot's of attention after all and that's what RUclips videos thrive off of. Others in the comments could also spread the details of my plan. No offense Yam, it's just my personal paranoia about RUclips and people making content here as well as comments sections.
Check out ShoggMommy’s latest video on VTuber models for male vtuber live 2D models Check on booth for 3D male vtuber models Check Squiijivt’s video on PNGTuber Picrews for male PNGTuber options! Hope this helps!
@@YamAlbat Thanks for the suggestions, I'll check out those in order. It should help a lot. It should also make that VR setup less needed for streaming and more for just going into the office from Hologra or a new... perspective in Koikatsu. Yes I do have adult games in my public Steam library, why do you ask? The 2D is definitely what I'm looking for as I'm not going to be moving around much. I'm mainly going to do games until I can actually learn to sing, something I've never truly done.
As regards the Holostars and Holomems segregation, it appears that some of that is breaking down. As an example Ao-kun and sora just did a stream with Aurauran (or however his name is spelled) - Roberu streams with women all the time (it would be funny getting him to rizz Ao-kun, would she get disgusted or swoon)
"indie vtuber is the future" NO, there is a reason why corpo is successful to begin with, well specially looking at how indie in general specifically western indie are FULL of "VTWEETER" or typical "twitch streamer" that is the opposite of what vtuber offer as content creator/entertainer. Just because black company like nijisanji stumbled with their international branch,they are still too big to fail and where some ppl will still go for their brand and exposure yeah even with that slavery like contract, meanwhile theres other company thats doing well and getting better which make corpo vtuber even better while indie still full of the same "vtweeter" problem. People dont understand the harsh truth about vtubing/content creating/streaming that it doesnt matter how TALENTED,SKILLED and ENTERTAINING you are, if you dont know how the platform work like twitch on youtube, you still have a typical problem with normal youtuber, "more creative,more freedom" theres no point of creative freedom if no one watching and most of the time, "creative freedom" or something like that end up to the OPPOSITE of creative, its the lazy content, random no reaction "react content", a SLEEP subathon, or twitch "thot" content which is THE MAIN REASON OF PPL CHOOSE TO WATCH VIRTUAL RUclipsR in the first place. "There is successful and popular corpo and there is successful and popular indie" yeah but both are the minority SPECIALLY INDIE, if somehow vtuber company gone for example, its still gonna be the same minority small percentage of less than 1% indie that will be popular and successful, while if the vtuber company still exist many other indie that manage to pass the audition and join company will get their exposure and help to become successful. Just remember to know what you sign for its 2024 there is no excuse like "i dont know when i sign with nijisanji that corpo is evil and bad" nah, you just didnt do enough research, didnt enough pay attention, the keyword here is BE REALISTIC, corpo still the future when they get even better but doesnt mean you cant do it as indie, but thinking "just be indie and forget about the choice of join corpo" probably wasting your potential because you can create 10 hours amazing videon if no one watch, then its useless or even worse,like those "indie vtweeter",like it or not "MAJORITY" of indie are those vtweeter who never even debut. People still talking and complaining about like "not owning everything" yeah the company too,most of them when they graduate you,they lose the IP too,you see them use it again? no,but is it over for you? nope,your fans still follow you,IRONICALLY dokibird/selen is the example of this,shes joining a company,lose her character selen,but does she lose her fans? NOPE, so the whole "its over when you graduate is just not true. vshojo business model? what business model? vshojo is literally a "clique" for popular indie or ex big corpo that already have BIG FANBASE with nepotism, oh vshojo so great because they offer you model that you can keep? ofc they have to do that,otherwise why would the ex big corpo want to join them? and btw how you guys indie can join vshojo again? audition? no YOU CANT JOIN VSHOJO,so whats the point? meanwhile company like hololive still "open audition" for any indie and again and again showing they can boost small indie like bijou for example. in the end,be realistic and know what you are doing,corpo know what they are doing,what works and how to be successful.
Thanks for giving my content a chance and for sharing your thoughts. I am an independent hobbyist VTuber. I define success as making content I can be proud of. As per the video, I do believe there’s a place for agency VTubers, but I’d say only 10% of people belong in them. There’s 0 shame in making content as a hobby, or being someone who doesn’t upload regularly. You can always stick to watching agency VTubers, that’s totally fine!
@@YamAlbat sorry if I interject, i think he was speaking about the arguments you made and not his personal preference, i agree with some of his points and i only watch indies, also as you say success is a personal matter, like i don't understand why you would want be a hollywood actor, but many clearly do and for them bein actor in those movies is success. I love your content and always egearly wait for your videos, sorry for my horrible english :-(.
![[VTuber History] How Agency VTubers Found their Footing through Lore](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Uw_g_dRAEFA/mqdefault.jpg)
Use code "YAMALBAT" to receive $5 off for your first #Sakuraco box through my link: team.sakura.co/Yamalbat or your first #TokyoTreat box through my link: team.tokyotreat.com/Yamalbat
arigatou for sharing more insights, Yam-sensei! Lots to cover and comment, with your collabs with DN-sensei and Rima-sensei inspiring ya to consider this topic!
The Title -- maybe... moi's always wondered when peeps, the fans, started calling it "the Vtuber industry"? Moi has always heard indie EN Vtubers and even indie JP Vtuber calling it the "Vtuber community" early on... Was it when Hololive and Nijisanhi as well as other Vtuber agencies gained more popularity and attracted more indie Vtuber attention that even the indies started calling it "the Vtuber industry" to adopt the same "entertainment as industry" mode/mindset focusing on profiting off creators' work?
Maybe what's needed is to return to monke -- I mean -- a return to roots... many Vtubers staying indie?
Then form networks, creator groups... then, just like what happened with VShojo, attract investors with moolah (Gunrun-sensei etc.) who can provide support a la MCN (multichannel network) style but with total 100% creative control on the creator group, the indie Vtuber network, the core collective, and the "agency" providing techsupport and sponsorship opportunities?
OR: maybe explore Vtuber cooperative modes?
Wherein the Vtubers in a creator group could pool resources, form their own agency, or seek co-owners and such...
The problem with agencies, as pointed out by Shogmommy-sensei, is that they're predatory... because entertainment is a capitalist, for-profit, owned only by one person or owned in corporate mode.
What if the shift in approach is more social, more collaborative, more democratic, less or no hierarchy, via the coop model?
So it's not going to be a neverending profit search that leads to an agency shutdown if high profitability isn't shown... PRISM Project, moi guesses, was profitable, but not within Sony's margins, so axed...
What if a coop could keep profitability and share the profits with workers-creators-talents and the workers making decisions together?
Wouldn't that be a better future?
So the future is a return to roots... indie roots
And the future is also social!
gomen for unsubstantiated meandering thoughts!
I'm a simple man, I see Randon, I click.
A fellow man of culture I see
Based and spear pilled
Based snd Orb pilled
I think the point about the lack of innovation is incredibly good. It makes no sense for a western company to try to replicate the idol model when it serves almost none of their needs.
Thank you! I hope we see more variety out of our VTuber agencies/groups in the future!
Flork of Crows is starting one! Seems pretty interesting already from the idea to *not* use "attractive models"
(Jokes on him, rule 34 *comes* for everyone!😂)
I felt Dokibird gave an honest assessment of indie vs joining a vtuber company. It's tough to grind and vtuber companies can offer a bigger audience and a definitive way to meet new people. Certainly though the management issues are something to consider
23:42 my problem here with indie (especially twitch) vtubers. They're too jiggly, too gooey. Tails, hair, clothes, everything is made from jelly. Even such great vtubers as Chibi and Shylilly.
I agree. I don't personally watch much vtuber content, but I find the ones with tons of extra bits and movement really distracting. Maybe I'm not in the preferred demographic, but I'd rather the avatar just express emotions, not wind turbulence.
"Less is more" - advice from the fashion world, applies to character design and just good design in general. You don't need to have every single piece of hair move on your model lol. A simple model, even a png, will work better than a model that has everything moving at once
Enjoying the video. I would point out however that while most vtuber companies fail in less than a few years i think the percentage of indie vtubers that stop is even higher.
that is true, but a lot less is on the line for indies, and it is always their choice to leave
I mean... The vast majority of anyone trying to make a break in the entertainment industry fails.
Only the top 1% (maybe even less) could make a living on twitch. So this statistics is not that bad. At least, relatively.
very true! The entertainment industry is very tough!
I'm a hardcore holobro (only watch a few clips of indies through Koe or Naggz), but I think this was a really good video about the pitfalls of the industry and I dearly hope that the bigger companies change for the better overtime (though kurosanji can just fuck right off).
I'm curious as to understanding where this so called industry standard exist for lack of innovation? For as much as I hate Nijisanji, both Nijisanji and Hololive do not have these restrictions. In fact, some of the best showcases of talent and ingenuity came from these talents. There is no lack of innovation in the types of content, only the types of talents the company hires. We seen handcams, gameshows, belly dancing, music instruments, cooking, tarot reading, sock puppets, singing, drawing, botany, insect breeding etc from both Nijisanji and Hololive. The problem is that most content creators are just gamers and that is especially true for non-vtubers. The content creator space is crazy crowded and the vtubing space is equally so. The top agencies stay at the top because they hire the cream of the crop, leaving a lot of hopefuls scrambling for the rest.
Respectfully speaking, indie vtubers aren't the slow and steady guaranteed success. There is nothing guaranteed about indie success. You can't claim to grind for X number of years to achieve success. Indie vtubers still require luck and opportunity to succeed. Almost all corpos, even bad ones require some level of experience in the talent before hiring. There are so many talents in corpos who have grinded out years and years in content creation, got rejected and still do so year after year applying for the top dogs, no matter how bad they are. I don't think they're naive or lack patience and certainly not in content creation experience.
Good points! When I’m talking about lack of innovation I am mostly talking about how out of the 100+ vtuber companies I studied, many of them (especially the small ones) stick to the same business model as holo and niji and aren’t trying to do their own thing!
I do realize my wording when I say “slow and steady guranteed success” didn’t specify what kind of success I was referring to. Success to me as a content creator is getting to create v content you’re proud of. I was not necessarily referring to numerical success. I wish I could go back and rephrase that to be more specific!
@@YamAlbat No worries. I sort of understand what you mean by success. I think a lot of that discrepancy is in how aspirants want to use vtubing. To me, it almost feels like the arguments comparing corpos and indies often look at it strictly from the lens of making it into a career/job which has very defined metrics for success. Your points early on about the type of people who should be joining corpos stay true. IDK if many are joining with the mindset of an indie and not realizing it is going to be a job. Indie IMO is like a hobbyist. Its like joining a music label versus staying as indie musician or joining a game studio versus being an indie developer. Expecting the corpo environment to be like the indie scene seems to be a huge mismatch.
@@jamesfzy yep both had it pros & cons.
Although I agree with you about Hololive being very innovative, I really haven't seen Niji do anything particularly groundbreaking in years. Outside of perhaps the VERY early days when they were trailblazers for simply being among the very first to do big production idol style vtuber stuff like concerts etc. they really haven't been doing anything new or innovative in quite some time. I guess Niji is sort of innovative in that they are one of the few vtuber companies who went all in on male vtubers, but the amount of times we have seen Niji talents complain about their creative projects getting shut down by management is crazy.
Hololive on the other hand, I agree with completely. They are doing anime, big league baseball collabs, building state of the art 3D studios, constantly branching out worldwide into other cultures, doing all kinds of crazy specials. I mean I saw them recently do a freaking full on muppet show parody for a spelling bee complete with animated muppet avatars for each talent.
So I watched this video and mulled on if I should leave this comment or not, but I feel like while this video does have good intentions, I think its heavily biased towards being an indie vtuber vs being a corp vtuber. I don't want to come off as an industry shill or anything because there are genuine bad companies that exist that do take advantage of vtubers. However, with the way how this video phrases its arguments against large/mid/smaller corps, it comes off at least misguided to almost spreading misinformation to people who would want to learn more information between being an indie vs being a corp vtuber. Here's a couple of bullet points that come to mind (out of order).
-The idol agency argument: I feel like you're mostly correct in regards to why the idol format doesn't work for western vtubers, that being said they don't just do them because its the industry standard, but also because the majority of vtuber fans *do* like the idol format and prefer that format overall. It also displays various talents under one umbrella without it leaning towards specific niches.
-Why do people join an Agency: I feel like people tend to forget why many smaller vtubers join an agency to begin with and its mostly for a few simple reasons.
1: Marketing. Some people will not watch indies because theres *far* too many indies in comparison to corporate vtubers and there's sonmany viwers who are willing to spend the time watching any vtuber. By watching a corpa, you weed out the indies who might not fit your prefered content and go for someone who passed the auditions and spend your time there.
2: All models and assets are paid for by the corporation. Pretty self explainatory.
3:If you have dreams of landing in a bigger corporation, having a known resume works out more rather than waiting all that time as an indie. A good example is a certain vtuber who originally was a part of MyHoloTv and then eventually becoming a Hololive vtuber.
-Why are Industry Models are weaker compared to Indie Models:
The main reason why the corpa models sucks for the reasons besides proprietary software is simply because of how much a new model cost. If you know your live2d riggers, all the rigs are tested on Vtube Studio before being ported on to the live 2d software covers/anycolor uses. I also feel like its fair criticism on the indie vtubing community to overvalue what the model is over anything else. While most indies dont have to spend thousands of dollars on a model, they overvalue the concept, lore, and how many toggles a model can do before thinking about the type of content they're doing as well as the software and hardware needed to run the model in the first place. It also doesn't help that the 1% of indie vtubers do uses these models frequently (ironmouse and shylily come into mind) which leads indies to being heavily misinformed that this is the content that the audience wants when they don't. As a result you have indies who want models from "brand name artists/riggers" rather than working within their own budgets and limits.
Vshojo:
Honestly I think this is the most egregious point you could've made within this video. The vshojo model doesn't work for most if not all corporates simply because of the fact that they're not funded by the video platform itself. Vshojo is ran by a former founder of the Twitch platform and has the necessary connections to keep the agency afloat without having to take paycuts on their merchandise sales. Because of this reason, they only take in previously established vtubers who were very popular before they reincarnated into their vshojo person and/or have their model be intergrated by the company. If they did auditions or actually scouted for random indies, they would actually have to take a percentage of the pay because they'd be running at a negative cost if that indie doesnt blow up in popularity.
I do have other criticisms in your video that I feel like isn't really necessary like for example the parasocialism argument that could be a whole nother topic within itself, but I do think you are correct on one thing:
99% vtubers are not fit for the corporate environment because they fundementally forget that in there, being a vtuber is a *job*. Its okay to be a vtuber as a hobbiest, or just screwing around to pass the time. But I do think with a video like this, it misinforms your audience into thinking that indie vtubers have major leverage in the industry when in reality, the western vtuber market outside the 1%, does not even register as a blip.
I guess one very last criticism can be pointed out in your own thumbnail.
Dokibird, randon, U san, and Quinn would not have their current success as an indie if it wasn't for the fact of their past life of being in an agency. Because of their own talents past the agency they were in, is the reason why their fans followed them into their indie persona. The only one out of the group who differs is Nyanners, and thats only because of the content that she did for the last decade that's been pre-established is why shes also able to see success as an indie.
I hope you would consider this comment and Im always down for having an extended conversation if you want.
Thank you for leaving your comment! This is definitely an opinion piece and I very much acknowledge my bias. I discussed this more in Part 1 of this series but my opinions on agencies are unfortunately shaped by my experience with multiple agencies on both the staff and talent side. These videos have been my way of warning others about the bad experiences my friends and I have had without breaking any NDAs. I DO want VTuber agencies to exist, I also want the 10% of VTubers who do belong in agencies to get treated fairly!
Your points are also very much valid and I appreciate you sharing them! You cannot beat agencies in marketing and discoverability, but I would definitely tell aspiring agency VTubers to weigh the tradeoffs of signing a contract with an agency.
I used Doki and friends in the thumbnail because they are both recognizable and they are the VTubers who support my 10th point in this video- agencies are only useful up until a point.
@YamAlbat Thanks for your reply!
I think something that would be a better equivalent for the western vtubing scene would be the japanese indie scene since smaller vtuber there are as documented as much as the more well-known ones. Maybe it might be an interesting topic to touch on?
PREACH
I’ve also had many toxic experiences in agencies… most that no one knows about. This healed my heart. Thank you ❤
I'm glad to hear it. I myself have had a lot of toxic experiences in this industry and that is why I dedicated the past 2 months to writing 2 videos on how the industry can be predatory and needs to change. I really hope things change for the better for the industry-minded individuals that would like the make this their career!
There was a grad from a top corpo who literally called his old model mid compared to his current one lol.
Amazing sequel to the last video!! I completely agree with the perspectives given but couldn't have explained it better.
I would also add the obvious "i want to be in the same agency/corpo as my oshi to be their friend" or "i want to be in an agency to have a better chance to collab with my oshi who's in another (maybe) reachable agency" reason as for people still wanting to be part of obviously horrendous agencies aside from the discoverability. Sadly people underestimate the consequences of applying to these and that's why I appreciate (and I think a lot of people do too) you for making theses series of videos which will save some people's time, money, mental health, etc. Even if it's just one person that changed their mind, you've already done an amazing job. THANK YOU, YAM ALGOAT
PS:Idk if you are or you mentioned being one but I think you are a natural teacher 🤣 Like putting information in their simplest and concise form is not easy at all and it could be the magic of the script, but being able to write a script this good, engageable and simple every essay you make is, imo, your strongest quality :3
Aww thank you! I agree that there are a lot of people who want to join for that reason, and it’s concerning!
I actually dream of becoming a teacher someday! Thank you for your kind words!
@@YamAlbat lets gooo, i'm sure Your dream Will come true.
And yeah, the only time Ive ever applied to one was in fact Niji and for that reason. As soon as I applied i realized My mistake but thank god My half assed attempt and 0 experience Made me do a Bad enough application lmao
Thank you for continuing to talk about this subject. I've been on the fence about what would be better to do. At first agency felt like the obvious better choice, but over time as things develop it's become more complicated.
Here is my current dilemma. On one hand I would be interested in further developing my talents and connecting with an audience and other talents. However I lack the funding, experience, and know-how that comes from being a professional or coming from certain backgrounds.
So I'm torn where I feel like at indie I could go at my own pace and style, but not be guaranteed to get lucky. And as a certain gender, I do feel that pressure to succeed younger rather than take decades to get there. I fear that if I don't even try to join I will regret never trying.
Then on the other end, if I did go the agency route I don't know if I'd be able to maintain expectations. I'm familiar with idol culture and the anime fandom. However, for various reasons I often get bouts of burnout, and I don't know if I'd be able to be consistent enough. I'm also uncertain if I'd be able to take the heat for making mistakes. But I am passionate about the community and would love to give the singing dancing idea a try. I don't know if I'd ever get enough funding to do that solo.
I'm still not sure what to do. I normally wouldn't post in this much detail but I'm hoping maybe someone else might have potential options to consider.
You've got ample time to figure your goals out as you produce content! Take all the time you need. You got this!
@@YamAlbat Thank you for the reply and support! I'll try not to rush too much. Either way I go I still need to figure out indie first, so I'll focus on that for now.
You're saying what so many people need to hear! Many people beat themselves up for not getting accepted into agencies, or for things going wrong once they're in one, but most people truly aren't built for the grinds and slogs of corporate life. It's not all fame and fortune, but its also not always the doom and gloom of corporate greed either.
On a kinda un-related note, I had no idea this has been uploaded for like a month now! The Algorithm has yet to put your uploads in my feed in a timely manner and that breaks my heart. The quality of your content far surpasses any compliments I could attempt to throw your way, and seeing that you retain that quality and positivity despite RUclips being a jerk is inspiring to say the least. I found my way here through your newest short (which did grace its way onto my screen!) and I hope that's a good sign for things to come! You truly truly deserve it
thank you so much for taking the time to say so! unfortunately I got in trouble with youtube and they suppressed me in the algorithm for 6 months until I completed training and waited for my probation period to end. That is probably why the algo isn't serving you my videos anymore! Thank you for going out of your way to find my content!
An informative video, i appreciate the opinions. Even if I don't agree with all of them lol. For the extremes I actually prefer stiffer models over overly bouncy models that go too far and make everything look like it has jiggly booba physics lol. It can be offputting sometimes and harder to look at for me.
I also think previous corpos who are now indie should be considered a special case from an indie from the get go. Because they amassed a lot of their audience and success that translated to their indie persona as a result of some of the positives that came with corpos. It is not the same as someone starting from scratch imo.
Thanks for your comment and adding your thoughts! I personally love that indies can choose what style of rigging they go with. I’m not too keen on the overly jiggly physics, but I very much still treasure facial expressions and hair movement (as you can probably can tell from my model).
As for the 2nd point, I totally get where you’re coming from! Like I mentioned in the video, no one can beat an agency’s discoverability. These talents were discovered by many because of their agency status. However, in order to get into those agencies they already had to be established and talented independent creators first. It all depends on how you view it! I had all ex agency VTubers in the thumbnail because they are both recognizable and also help to support my 10th point (agencies are only helpful up until a point). Thanks again for the comment!
On the note of lack of innovation in terms of content, I'd like to mention Nikki from idol who does some woodworking and general crafting streams which is super cool and unique.
yo that sounds awesome!!!
Don't take this the wrong way but I feel like you're point 10 is ignorant of a lot of factors of why an agency is useful. Sure, that person can go off and become their own boss, be creatively free, etc., but there's a huge downside that IS having to be your own boss. It's both a lot of stress and money to provide entirely for yourself to provide all the things an agency can take care of for you, so you're taking on more stress and fronting a lot more expenses meaning your increase in profit is not nearly as much as you'd think, and that's not even mentioning other creative aid like access to mocap studios, which is far outside the average persons budget. For a recent example that shows my point, Dokibird, one of the vtubers who you said supports your point 10 according to your comments, just admitted to missing a huge convention oppurtunity because she wasn't checking her email frequently enough, something that would not happen at any half decent corpo. She had to take a day off just to do that herself, which is both a stress point and a loss of stream time and profit. IMO if your hypothesis is true here, the large majority of say, the Hololive EN talents would've left already, or hell even Idol EN or Phase talents, but that's just not the case because they get far more benefits in the background that we, the viewer, never directly perceive. I just don't think it's so black and white, it's a game of pros and cons with this stuff, as I know well personally being from a family who runs our own business, it's definitely not all sunshine and rainbows. It's really a case by case basis depending on what the individual wants and needs from content creation, as to be very frank, most people just are not cut out to run a business or be their own boss from my experience. Either way, have a good day and nice video.
Thanks for the comment! You make a great point! I think 10% of people do belong in GOOD agencies for that reason!
This is my opinion piece, and you can tell i prefer to be in control of my own creative endeavors. I respect the good agencies and their partnered talents who are thriving!
checking your email does not require an agency, but the agency would like to make both talent and audiences believe that it does. professional independent talent hire personal assistants and business managers to handle this stuff without also telling the talent what to do. agencies are pimps and nothing more. they take a middleman cut and give orders and are parasites. real actual irl talent in every american industry hires staff to deal with whatever business chores they don't want to deal with personally, ask any well-known actor or musician.
as i'm nearing the end of my university studies, the reality of needing to earn money starts to sink in. i've thought about content creation and freelancing as a career path, but was wary of their stability. besides one compulsory internship, i don't have other work experience.
your video has helped put into perspective the state of v-tubing as a potential job. thank you for the wonderful discussion and the document detailing the how-tos of networking and establishing oneself! these pointers will come in very handy for not only people interested in v-tubing, but also content creation as a whole.
Glad you found the video and guide helpful! I find VTubing to be a very stressful career, but a very fun hobby personally!
@@YamAlbat Haha, you did mention that in the video! “Doing something you find fun sounds nice, but when you have to do it as a job, it becomes a chore” or along the lines.
I agree with that statement, as an artistic person. It’s nice to do something I find enjoyment in, but when it becomes something I must do to survive, it sucks out the fun in it.
Perhaps handling it moderately is the way to go. Have some as a job, and have some as a hobby. If the hobby ends up generating income, that’s a bonus too ^^
There's one thing I'd like to see more of talked about by indies in general.
Merchandising. There seem to be a lot of predatory actors out there that take advantage of Vtubers and other groups. This is a topic I'd like to see covered more in the future.
As an Indie Vtuber, I see this as an absolute win.
heck yea~ hope things go well for you!
Insightful and well thought out video as always. I feel like the VTubing space is very much going through the same motions normal content creation went some years ago with companies like Machinima and other MCNs having some similar predatory practices to what we see today. Gradually things moved to a more creator first environment we have today with talent agencies and creator orgs. I'd like to add a few things.
One is that even as a big content creator with your own team, you still have a large amount of offline work to manage said team and can still be taken advantage of by companies offering partnerships like Bao, Yuzu and Amalee recently were. Even Kson said that she got scammed various times and that was one of the big reasons she joined VShojo.
Speaking of VShojo, I wouldn't say they came to understand that they need to change to keep their talents, they had this talent first business model and freedoms from the beginning. The reason for that imo is that they just started with modern practices while other companies were using practices from over 10 years ago. They were simply setup and still remain as a modern creator org format like OfflineTV and OTK. It only felt new, because the other well known companies were following the japanese model. I don't even think they need to expand too much, what we really need is for more content orgs to appear. 3am and Vchiban seem to be doing ok. Their talents are growing very well and they have basically the same model as VShojo.
Vshoujo is not different because it uses modern practices, is different because it has a totally different business model. Vshoujo is a management company, not a vtuber agency. Their business model, is in managing talents. Niji and especially Hololive, are more like Marver or DC. Their business is in creating and commercializing IP. And just like Marvel hires artists and writers to make comics using their IP, Cover and Anycolor hire people to give life to theirs. So streaming is not the goal, but just a means to a goal. So obviously those companies need more thing control. Owning the IP is logical, is theirs. Gura for example, as an IP, is now worth likely millions if not tens of millions of dollars. You just can't give it away to the streamer.
@@davidgreen5994 it is modern practices because that's how creator agencies work today vs how MCNs worked 10 years ago. Machinima owned bought Smosh and the agency owning channel was seen as normal back then. Now it isn't. It's only seen as normal in the vtubing space because the japanese content creator economy is going through the same process the western one went through in the last 10 years. I agree on the jp ones being more like media companies than agencies though. Lots of people get those mixed up.
Thank yo for the video. It was very informative and I do like to know more perspectives on those topics.
Thanks for watching and supporting!
AAAA YOUR MODEL LOOKS AMAZING, the outfit fits prettily with the background
Interesting. I'm relatively new to the vtubing world, and before watching this video I had assumed that indies had inferior models. So glad to admit I was wrong.
Because a vast majority _learn to make it themselves_ (or can only afford to buy from someone who did) they are often superiour.
Just check out moth girl Juniper and her *full on moth alt mode!* Very cool 😎
Always enjoy your insightful videos! Thank you.
Thank you for watching!
18:22 Meanwhile Kaela torturing her manager by gaming for 7+ hours.
Kaela is just built different haha
Your upgraded model came out great! The wings are a great touch and make your bat concept way more obvious.
Thank you for the mention, and for the very informative video!!
AAAAA SUSU THANK YOU FOR WATCHING!
I wouldn't say cross out all agencies, I've been keeping tabs on some small indies who have been streaming for years with little followings. I've been around the many vtuber fandoms and especially the subreddits, Indies graduates and quits almost on a weekly basis. Every once a week, someone vents about how they don't get any attention, every once a week, someone quits. It's the reality of the entertainment industry, if you don't get exposure, no one will know you exist.
Just keep in mind that they shouldn't jump at the opportunity to sign with the first agency they come across and actually evaluate whether or not the collaboration would be beneficial. And if the agency asks for them to create a new IP (So act under a new persona), without a doubt, give it a second thought, a triple thought, a quadruple thought, as many as you need to be certain.
Going under a new persona essentially means that you are trusting this agency to give you an (almost) entirely new career in a sense. Your growth will be entirely dependent on the agency and if you ever are graduated, you only manage to bring a certain amount of what you gain during at your time at the agency whether that'd be followings or capitals.
So what I'm trying to say is, keep on the grind daily doesn't = success. Especially if you're trying to make it your career.
Very wonderfully put, I totally agree!
Thank you for very informative videos!
YAM I HADNT SEEN YOUR NEW MODEL YET BUT ITS SO GOOD! ITS TOO CUTE!
Haven't been able to finish yet but I wanted to make sure I commented on how the first 10 seconds are almost a poem
thank you OkAs i wanted to start with a bold hook to grab everyone’s attention TM
As far as the models go that company's use, I feel like in the case of the BIG corpos the reason why they don't go all out with the models is actually more about consistency than cost. For example, in Hololive it is very clear that the talents have certain things that they can and can't get and the company tries to keep these things consistent for each talent for fairness. In fact, something that came up last year was the fact that the EN branch felt like they weren't getting the same 3D opportunities as the JP members and now we see that turning around with the company tightening up what sorts of 3D things they'll do so that it's fair for all the talents. Now, I also do see all the cool and crazy things that Vtuber models can do now and while I certainly think it is cool I'm also quite amazed by how much some of these corpo talents are able to shine with the limited models that they do have. I also don't really see this changing unless there's some massive overhaul to the fundamental system that can be applied to ALL of their talents but at the same time I think it's kind of fitting that the indie Vtubers use this as an avenue to separate themselves from the corpos to help spread the good word of Vtubers.
Well said! I agree!
SUSU AWOOOO YEAAAAH !!!!! I LOVE THAT GUY !!!!!!!!!!! SHES AWESOME !!! I LOVE SUSU AWOO !!!!!!!! NUMBER ONE ARTIST AND RIG MAMA !!!
Love your videos Yam!
Thank you!
I may have missed it but if i didnt, they didnt mention financial security. Corpo will give a salary+and benefits. Basically think of artists, do you really think indies will make more money or gain more popularity than corpo? I feel like they are just using doki as the main example but in general, corpo is better. Just a matter of if you can fine companies like cover and not the black companies. A black company could be a ticket to getting your main fans though like doki and matarakahn. To sum up, i still think corpo is the better choice
Id say less than half of agencies out there offer salaries and benefits. In fact, agencies make you sign as an independent contractor so that they don’t have to offer you benefits. It’s really unfortunate.
@YamAlbat ok. Those black companies really got to stop. They need a certain person to do this. Like jyj did in the kpop industry. I still remember their slave contract era. Too bad jyj got an eternal ban from the 3 big channels but they changed the whole industry. The vtuber industry needs such a case as well
loved the video. looking forward to your next one!
The new model looks very good.
Thank you so much! The model art is by me and the rigging is by @ootoriazu
Lindybeige did a great video on agents.
A real estate agent might promise to sell a house at the highest possible price to attract clients, as everyone wants to maximize their profit. However, selling at top dollar often requires more time and effort due to various factors, such as market conditions, a smaller pool of potential buyers, and more intense negotiations. In contrast, pricing homes at market value can lead to quicker sales, consistent income through frequent commissions, and a stronger reputation. While aiming for the highest price is often what the client wants, consistently selling at market value can be more practical and sustainable for the agent.
ty for the informative video 😄😄
also the irony is that to join VShojo you have to already basically have done every thing you would want to get from VShojo
... so i guess is the Bragging Rights Agency🤣
There is actually a few things that VShojo offers that indies cannot get easily, which are:
- legal help
- access to industry connections
- access to motion capture studios
No one in your thumbnail gained all their popularity from a purely indie career. also Nyanners is under mythic, she isn't even indie at all
Thanks for the feedback! Each and every one of these creators established themselves before joining an agency. They did gain more popularity in an agency than as an indie because agencies offer a lot of discoverability as I cover in the video.
Nyanners is still my definition of an independent creator because she does not have corporate higher ups dictating her content.
Hope that helps!
Being in a talent agency like Mythic doesn't make you corpo. You're still indie. They just handle sponsorships.
So eh... By the definitions you give at the start, VShojo isn't corpo, but you put them in the corpo category anyway and talk about them like they're corpo?
Because, like, VShojo as a company didn't change how they do business, they've always been a western talent management agency (like Mythic or UTA or YMU), just one that specialises exclusively in VTubers. It's only confusing for fans because VShojo is the name of both the company and the 'independent VTuber group' (going by the definitions at the start of the video) of the talents that are clients of the company.
VShojo has never owned the models of their talents or restricted what they could do. VShojo talents aren't now, nor have they ever been, employees of the agency, but rather they have been clients who pay the agency for certain services (the standard talent management package, though tailored to VTubers' needs).
Id say that theyre in a grey area yeah!
"The vtuber market isn't oversaturated, we just haven't aren't exploring any other niche." THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING. Most agency and indie vtubers just keep to the same type of content. Either gaming or zatsu's. Vtubers like Rin Penrose and Filian have been exploring other ways to innovate content with gameshows and tournaments and anything other than "play game and interact with chat". It's not like I have any problem with that type of content. Heck, my oshi usually keeps to that, but it is nice to have a variety of other content that vtubers can look into.
Agreed! I hope we see a lot more diversity invtuber cotnent int he future!
I've actually picked up doing gunpla streams as of this year and it's been an absolute blast. I've also taken my subscribers to a local museum that was a hands-on experience and it was a lot of fun. I can't wait to do more type of content like this. There's more out there than gaming that's for sure. And even if you do zatsu's you can do stuff while having chatting it's honestly a lot of fun. I hope more people start looking into more than just "let's play the newest pokemon".
I don't think you really watch corpo's. Tournaments, gameshow, festivals, and all sort of events, are an old tradition in both Niji and Hololive. They happen all around the year, and they are so ingrained in tradition, that we even know the dates they happen manually.
@@davidgreen5994 I'm talking about the vtubers content, not content that their agency produces.What I'm saying is that the vtubers themselves most of the time don't have that variety in content that can distinguish themselves from the main branch of vtubers, corpo or indie.
@@jubiiiiiiiiiiithe vtubers literally put on these game shows and gaming events. Botan put on a whole SF6 tournament recently
so, allegedly in alleged information i heard, another alleged reason for the stiff rigging in Agency Vtubers is so they look good in Freeze Frames
Interesting! I haven't heard of that theory but that makes sense!
I think another issue with corporate vtubing is that it's inherently exclusionary, because it has to be.
The only way for a corporation to actually work to bring their talents popularity is if they create an image of highly curated talents. Niji has always had an issue with this in the western fandom especially, when they started bringing in too many people the audience backlash got more and more intense, feeling like the company was dragging its image down by over saturating itself. Companies that want to maintain that feelings of curation, even companies like vshojo, will always have to be an exclusionary club to maintain that image.
I hear how many people talk about vshojo being the retirement home for ex niji members, but even for their invitation-only structure, they're gonna have to reach a point where they turn away some of those ex talents.
Vshojo while yes feeding a little into the joke of only hiring retired vtubers from other agencies is definitely very exclusive and won’t be accepting every retired talent out there. Considering it seems the requirements are to be very close friends with some of the agency talents and then also have a large enough following already as a streamer it definitely feels exclusionary to get in. I know they had their own disaster when they initially tried to do auditions but it’s unfortunate that unlike other agencies they seem like they won’t take a chance on lesser known talent that even Niji and Holo try (although don’t get me wrong everyone who joins even those agencies have content experience too).
@@niconojuegos, As far as I know, Ao-kun from ReGlos (Holo) has never been involved in Internet content before. That's what I heard. Of course, this is an exception to the rule, at least the current one.
@@Arik-bb3rw yeah I’m just saying mostly you need at least a little of experience in content creation for hololive even if it’s not necessarily the most successful. Idk about Ao but that’s cool if they made it in with almost no experience
Well said! Thank you for adding your insight!
@@niconojuegos I wouldn't say that VShojo is any more exclusionary than others just because it's invite-only. At the end of the day they bring in just as many talents per year as HoloEN does and Niji is no stranger to getting people who were friends before. In my opinion they feel less exclusionary because they're way more integrated with the Twitch indie scene. They collab with small indies all the time and iclude them in their events. They even had 2 minecraft servers open to indies. If the biggest benefit of joining an agency is getting more eyes on you, then VShojo has been providing that to loads of small indies without even requiring them to join.
about corpo’s only streaming on a single platform.. this is most of the time because that platform is one of the investors of that vtuber agency (so they are contractually not allowed to make use of alternate platforms, unless stated (this includes restream), it is also the reason vtubers tend to have a hard time setting up collabs with vtubers on other platforms)
Oh interesting! I never thought of that! Thanks for bringing that up!
I miss hitbox, it was just too ambitious an idea. 😔
Platform that functioned more like a program, you could multi with a flip of your wrist!
Unfortunately they had poor mobile compatibility at a time mobile was exploding, and big agencies being Japanese based utilised hefty smartphones more than PC. For those with cams/PC it was the superiour choice, but they were clearly developed by PC soloists and fell behind the streaming content sphere, for shame! 😞
Thank you for making this. Had a lot of similar suspicions before and feel glad that someone else would share them as well. While I still haven’t entirely given up on the thought of creating a vtuber model for some of my content I am absolutely certain that it will be indie only. I just don’t get the appeal of idol industries anymore when communities like VRChat serve the same purpose of interacting with other people only it’s way better without all of the commercial bureaucracy. Just make your character by affordable means and use it with whatever you want. Nuff said.
very valid thoughts. Whatever you choose, i hope you have fun!
I really don't understand why some people get so attached to corporations. Why become loyal to a lifeless entity instead of the talents and creators in their ranks? Some people get so upset when a corpo VTuber goes indie and I'm like, they're still around. Just not working for a corporation anymore.
Also, speaking of models, Limealicious has one of the best models in the industry. It's so bouncy and full of life. Not to mention her outfit toggles.
I agree!
Fellow viewer of culture, I love Limes, I discovered her content through her friend Vinny Vinesauce!
I'm a simple person, I see U-san, i click
fellow person of culture i see! I am so glad U san was able to publish their songn recently!
29:18 not the DaVinci Resolve "Media Offline" warning 😩
dude so much of the video got corrupted when one of my hard drives failed that i had to cover it with other footage the DAY BEFORE THE UPLOAD, looks i missed a spot teehee
huh, I will have some more thought on this
The shit happening just these past few months alone just solidifies my desire to debut indie and stay indie
Tldr the future is definitely not indie, just make better orgs
I would love that!
Indie for indie is always an option! (V4mirai)
Managers and director are Vtubers too! The way they kept calling Biscotti their "daughter" during her graduation was so sweet😌
No the future is doing what works and doing it right. It doesn’t matter if you’re indie or cropo as long as you are entertaining your audience and giving them a sense of escapism from the real world.
Indie is the future. Look what happened to Pomu.
On a completely unrelated note, Mint Fantome's Twitter is no longer private and has had activity since March 6th. I think this old school indie might be coming back.
She’s doing something with Matara Kan of VShojo!
Tbf it should be considered that many of the indie vtubers who are now big got big through Nijisanji. With all due respect to vtubers like Doki and who Pomu is now they would not have the subs they do now if they did not have the benefit of being Nijisanji before. They got their name outs on a big platform that 99% of indie vtubers will not. Its not fair to treat Pomu and Doki the same as an indie who starts from nothing
The vshojo model? You mean hoovering up known talents by nepotism and then don't do much as a group anyway? Niji gets a bad rep for all the right reasons now, but it's strange to see hololive being lumped in with them. Holo invest in their talents, clearly, their bottom line is smaller than niji, new 3d studio, talent ran events funded, etc etc
I think hololive is doing just fine and making a lot of money at it as well, indie will always have the freedom of them being indie but also the hardest way to do very big stuff, it's the trade-off many are happy to make and keep making, if hololive was losing talents left and right in jp/id/en i'd be more inclined to agree. That's just not happening now is it? The only two people who left because they really wanted to, were Sana who left because she just couldn't get into the groove of vtubing plus her art career, Coco didn't want to follow along with the heavy focus on idol stuff plus the Taiwan thing probably didn't help either. Rest is breaking of nda/contract, which is always the worst thing to happen especially to the talent/fans but not because they didn't want to continue anymore.
VShojo does a lot as a group. Matara, Haruka, and Zentreya are collabing right now. And they're going to have a huge VShojo collab after Mouse's new outfit debut tonight.
Sane comment. If anything, Vshojo is a great example of why corporate vtubers have their place. Vshojo's model is entirely superficial and leeching, trying to profit from the association an agency label provides, while touting the clout of "independence" that directly conflicts with it being meaningful. It can never yield the same kind of scale, opportunity, and success for individual talents compared to an organization like Hololive, which has the necessary structure and coherence to do so. Hololive has also done a great job of keeping the entertainment space solely about entertainment, mitigating the drama and activism that internet personalities at large are prone to engaging in as they become too big for their britches. The moderation and editing might lead to talents not being able to do certain things they might like to, but that goes with the territory of trying to maintain a working business model.
This is also dumb because how many indies actually last or gain even tiny recognitions? Corpos give you the support team and you get people to help you become better. This take by the channel owner is a bit weird. Also.... vshojo model... idk... all I can say is, if you can get into holo, get in. Another thing I can't agree with her take is that doki was a not so successful indie vtuber before niji from what I know. She gained her popularity from niji and the recent kurosanji arc. Did she seriously suggest going indie? Lmao. Does she even know how many indies are even struggling to get 50 or 100 views everyday? I've seen some that stream 11 hours a day and all they get is around 700 views. Idk, I think a salary+benefits+alpha+ fans >>>>>>>> being indie, who will have to plan and do everything on their own
Holo is being lumped up with Niji because their business models are basically the same. Just because one is not utterly incompetent and creates a better environment, doesn't mean the practices are suddenly not predatory. Not every single point applies to every agency, but I bet I could put their contract and Nijisanji's in front of you and you wouldn't be able to tell which is which.
Your VShojo points don't make much sense. It's a creator org. Creator orgs scout people that mesh well together. When was the last tiome OTK and OTV brought in an unknown creator that no one in the org knew? That's just you projecting your expectations where they don't fit. They absolutely do loads of things as a group, this point just shows that you don't watch them.
@@7Seven-Four4 Isn't "trying to profit from the association an agency label provides" basically what every single agency does? I really don't understand what you mean by leeching. You mean leeching from each other? Isn't doing collabs with other members an integral part of being part of a group? Maybe you mean leeching from the company's brand. As in every recent Holo debut having over 100k subscribers before debut? That's 100% company brand alone. Or maybe lastly you mean the company leeching from the talents. That one also doesn't hold up as talents grew a lot when joining VShojo. Henya is more than double the size she was before, same with Geega, Matara and Haruka. I'm not even including the founding members here, but they all grew a LOT since the company started.
We can like things despite the flaws. No company is perfect. They all have their problems, but the ones you pointed out are not it.
I personally love the group of friends Vtuber agency
Groups of friends are so fun to watch! id love to see more vtubers forming groups with their friends!
Oof, that misspell on “Until” for Reason #10.
I’m a simple man who saw Dokibird, therefore I had to click.
I 100% agree it's indie or if you wanna be a pop star you go and apply to Hololive. And I guess Vspo for a Esports team. But those are the only exceptions as of now. Anything else doesn't make sense (other then you want to make friends but theres better ways to do that).
Well if the company can offer you a set and stable salary that you can live off on despite whatever your viewer count or donations/membership goes. Then yeah that makes sense too why people might wanna join an agency.
Honestly I hope indie stuff becomes sustainable not just for VTubers but for all creators cause all companies are doing is showing how little they care about the people who make them money
Agreed!
13:22 lack of innovation
It is amazing that Phase Connect only check one box from the list you give here: all female talent. But they give their talents freedom to do anything, from twitch, musical instrument, handcam, different designs. Even the branding is different (sad girl company)
Also no one can say Pippa is safer investment in the beginning
So glad to hear it! We need more innovation in the VTuber space!
japan vtube: Kayfabe
Western Vtuber: Be Yourself
IMO vtuber is an actress behind the avatar
No, Indie is not the future... is like saying that short animation on RUclips will replace the anime industry. The magic of vtubing is in the corpo. And it will always be like that. The content that and the value a corpo creates is in a whole different league from the indie.
I think that your take on peoples joining an agency for visibility is flawed. That was the case in 2020, but now... Today, you don't join Hololive for example, for visibility, you join it because it's a place where you can fulfill your dreams and aspirations. Or for some, being in Hololive is the dream in itself. Hololive already has in talents that had substantial following on their personal account, so they didn't lack visibility. Moreover, they give the freedom to their talents to still stream on their own account as an indie if they want, and a bunch of them do exactly that.
You are also wrong about ownership. I've seen plenty agency going down, but letting their talents keep their models and channels. In Hololive for example, talents hold rights over some project they pay for. They can't own the MV's because it uses IP that is not theirs, but they hold total ownership of the songs they paid for or made themselves. They also have the option to sell them to Cover.
When it comes to restrictions, those are necessary. Again, Hololive for example had to create content restrictions, because in 2020-2021, RUclips started to hit them with a wave of demonetizations. So they had to adapt their rules to RUclips's terms of services. But they don't really need to ask permission for everything they do. and they got very lax rules, especially now that Hololive is so big.
I don't think design and rigging is that important. I've seen plenty of examples over the years of indies that went viral for some great model, and then fell in obscurity once the novelty dried up. A model with too many details or functions, will just became a gimmick and distract the viewer. Is the talent behind the model that is most important. Someone like Pekora, Korone or Miko, who are able to give life to their model in such way that you can't imagine a human behind it, will always dominate any vtuber with a top-notch model.
I’m so glad hololive is the exception for these things! Unfortunately there are hundreds of obscure and predatory agencies that VTubers join every day in hopes that they are joining an organization like hololive. I have worked for some of these companies, and my friends have joined these agencies before. This video and last month’s video were inspired by our experiences. I hope that puts this video into perspective for you!
@@YamAlbat Ah that gives the video a lot more prospective, in the graphics ( not sure i you call in english the visual aids that provide context to wha you are saying) mostly had the "big" corporations, but i guess you use those so people recognize what you mean. love your content, keep up the good work!
I’d say that your perception of the designs as safe (and more uniform than the medium requires) is correct, but not necessarily in the way that your main argument suggests.
They’re safe because they’re broadly going with an issue avoidance tactic rather than a broad-appeal one (this is specifically for established agencies - idk why a newly formed agency would go with this). Specifically, a model that is a normal human with normal human features is gonna be fine no matter what. Similarly, mammalian and corvid flair features (dog/cat ears, feathers, etc) are fine by basically everybody.
Contrast that with something like Juniper’s giant moth form, Layna Lazar’s open-ribcage model, or even the worm that Joel has on his face in one of his models (yes, that last one is what got me personally). In those cases, you aren’t risking the model being a bit weird - you’re risking triggering some of the more common phobias. As a result, you’re not going to see any companies going for those sorts of models. (To be clear, I’m not knocking VTubers with models like that - they’re cool concepts, just potentially iffy for a corporation)
As for the simplicity of the rigging, I’ve got nothing (aside from the cost of updating the entire agency in one go). It pretty much screams, “corporate has decided that consistency across our ventures will provide compounding operational efficiency”. (Yes, that was painful to type)
Is not only that, but models have to be simple and practical enough, to translate well in different mediums. They are going to be made into figurines, some will be adapted in manga, and animation. You also don't want to be cursed by the fans when they do fanart. I remember people bitching a lot about Irys from Hololive, due to all the details on her old design, that made fanart into a tiring undertaking.
a new challenger appears -Mint
I SAWWWWW!!!!
Honestly if i ever joined a agency it would be for the legal resources as in i don't wanna deal with copy right disputes myself as it's a pain in the ass. And if i join one and got big enough the only reason why i would stay would be for the legal help unless i got a better deal else where. Pretty much i would try to use it like a MCN and pretty much what VShojo is
It really is a revival of MCN's (Milti Channel Network) if anyone remember those, like the future is the revival as you get discoverability because of being associated with a MCN and can do whatever you want in terms of content
And i know what some of you are thinking but no MCN's are different from Brand accounts as MCN's gets the added benefits of region locking the channel's videos, as in if you get copy right claimed by Japan then you can just make sure Japan does not see your videos and then they can't copy right claim you. Now i don't actually know if RUclips still allows for people to make MCN accounts or not but they are sought after accounts just for the region locking alone so you would be paying a pretty penny for one.
Like no one wants to deal with copyright claims because of fair use and Japan does not recognize fair use existing but we have to deal with it if we are not apart of a MCN to make our videos to not be able to be shown to Japan thus the bots for Japan RUclips will not copyright claim you as they can't see it. Like if somehow Agencies gained access to MCN capabilities such as region locking videos then that alone will generate a lot of value to get someone to stay in the company despite that should be a basic feature on RUclips to be able to region lock your stuff yourself
Imagine a VTuber agency actually happens to be using a old MCN account that they bought then rebranded to the main account. Suddenly what they have to offer is way better than most agencies as if you think about it a VTuber agency is a lesser MCN. Also just note if somehow you can make a actual MCN account you need to have your channel monetized first but most importantly YOU NEED TO GET INTO CONTACT WITH RUclips in order to even start the process of turning a account into a actual MCN, and we all know that getting into contact is the difficult part. The process is intentionally hard and or obscure otherwise everyone would have one but i honestly think it would be greatly beneficial to the agency if they had their own MCN as they get so much more tools to help the connected accounts that should be basic for everyone but are not
Again i don't know if RUclips still allows for MCN's to be created but if they do then agencies need to be on that as they already act like one for their talents that work for them, so something that would make it easier to make money is welcomed. But again the first step is actually getting RUclips partnered as in monetized otherwise you can't turn your channel into a MCN at best you can do a brand account. Funny thing about a Brand Account is it used to be worse to have than a regular RUclips account as you could only have 1 link in the banner while regular accounts could have either up to 5 or 4, but eventually they removed the ability to put links in the banner altogether so now no down sides to a brand account as pretty much if you have more than 1 account you don't have to sign in with different passwords just click switch account.
You still need to write down the passwords or remember them for other stuff such as applying for partner as you need to sign into the actual account and not through the brand account
Honestly VTuber Agencies NEEDS to have a MCN. Fun fact you can immediately monetize a channel through a MCN they don't need to meat the usual requirements so when debuting a new person you can immediately go into the content manager dashboard and monetize them. I am not lying about that if you have a MCN it is so beneficial to both the owner and creators that join it
Here is a simple guide on if you wanna make a MCN yourself
Step 1: Manage and monetize many channels of good QUALITY
Step 2: Ask RUclips support or your agent that is assigned to you when you passed a certain number of subs
If they think you qualify they will turn it into a MCN, and yeah the quality part is vague as it is pretty much if RUclips decides. Pretty much you have to prove that you have already been doing MCN type of work which most VTuber agencies do so if they apply they might get approved
YOUR VOICE WENT "🤓"(17:30)
Great video! I don't have a head for art/ design, so it's interesting to finally hear someone put words to the lingering thoughts I've had on VTuber designs.
I'm inclined to believe that agencies may head more and more toward VShojo's model in the future. Especially now that abusive industry practices are being brought to light, I can see a much stronger stigma developing toward traditional agencies that try to follow the "Idol Agency" model. Given that many western fans seem to gravitate toward less- filtered, more diverse content offerings, I could see the role of agencies shifting to a logistical support role whose main offer is a common pool of permissions and merchandising, rather than putting the agency's "brand" at the forefront like Holo and Niji. The biggest shift that I can see coming is when Japanese and Korean companies develop the cultural and linguistic proficieny necessary to operate in the West
Agreed. Let's hope thats the case in the future!
Literally every major agency that is growing in Japan right now is building on the idol agency model, because Hololive set a standard that nobody can ignore. Even groups that where focused on different niches, like VSPO, which is an Esports group, are putting their foot in the idol puddle. Less than a month ago, Hololive held Holofes - their own convention, which sold 86k tickets, and held 2 concerts each day, all sold out, with 16-20k attendees. Some of the Hololive talents are also exploding on the music scene, to a normie audience. Any agency that wants to go public or has investors, will be asked by their investors why their agency is not creating the opportunities Hololive creates for their talents. All will feel that they lose money if they don't walk in Cover's footsteps. As for the Korean companies and agencies, they are building vtubing agencies on the Kpop model, so...
"Even the best agencies in the world do this."
I don't think "best" is the appropriate word here. How about just "biggest"?
I agree with a lot of things in this vid but I also feel like there's a ton of very strong over-generalizations...
I plan to stick to the indie route. I have my model currently being made by an artist right now and it looks so good I am excited she is my skin tone and everything it makes me motivated to make content I can't wait until she is done.
Nijisanji is a black company plain and simple. Calling them bad faith actors is too nice of a term for them.
I just realized after 3 months of this video there is nyanners in the thumbnail i hate her so much she was erased from my memory i wouldn't go into it because everyone back in 2016 already knows
the corpo brainrot in the comments is really disturbing, politically. the abusive nature of these "agencies" is exhaustively documented and completely outrageous. but i also don't understand why people support k-pop with the level of abuse and control that occurs to the talent, which again, is extremely well-documented
Está genial
Gracias!
dude the lack of innovation is so real, everyone and their mom wants to be the new niji or holo but they dont know WHY nijiholo were so successful
its definitely a major issue. I hope the next generation of agencies try to do something different and adapt to their local cultures!
@@YamAlbatthat would be nice! but now i've got the mental image of a western vtuber industry doing something like the x factor for their auditions LMAO
@@DrachenIvy
"How did I do?"
"A 2 view could sing better than that. Chat spamming ears bleeding would be too kind for you. Your audition tape would have no views but unfortunately I still had to hear it."
Niji is no longer popular after all the crap they did.
Edit: accidental double post due to RUclips-kun being drunk. Move along.
I think the future is Hololive.
valid!
There are only a handful of innovative Idie VTubers out there. The only few that I can think of are Neuro and Fillian, and I don't even watch them. Most indie VTubers do the same as corporate VTubers.
Corpo Vtubers are trendsetters and everybody is just ridin along. Additionally, most indie VTubers on Twitch waste time watching RUclips videos with their models is that innovation? And also, most indies who manage to build their own audience do so because they are friends or fans of a corporate VTuber. By only mentioning a corporate VTuber's name, they can manage to attract some audience by being a fan/friend of that persona.
This video is a perfect example of making content out of corpo Vtubers cause thats the most easiest way to gain traction in this space it doesn't matter if is good or bad poorly research video.
She hurt your tribe, huh?
I'm making my Hololive audition video public after this video 😂 (I couldn't get in lol)
You never know
Only if you are 100% sure at this point that you wouldnt want to join hololive in the future, go for it!
@YamAlbat yup. I mean, there is no guarantee she won't, so I hope she doesn't ruin her chances
Just be careful what you promote publicly. I sure they like like professional and passionate people.
They have hired out of previous auditions, so make up sure you really can't! 😅
I think it was Subaru who was the one that "just got in," or one of her genmates
AS SOON AS A SEE QIUNN DOKI AN U SAN I CLICKED
A FELLOW PERSON OF CULTURE I SEE
YAS@@YamAlbat
im sorry but why are we using timeframes like 5+ years when the entire industry is like 5 years old?? i mean. come on lol.
Right now all vtubers who I actually care about are indies because they can be themselves.
A free model, but a good one that's male? That's not going to happen because that's so rarely made. You look on the VTube studio workshop and you can't find anything good. It becomes pretty much mandatory to use more that $1000 on a basic model. It's also impossible for someone like me to get a freaking iPhone. A $1000 plus phone is beyond the price point of a person on social assistance. So in the end it's pretty much mandatory to spend a number of months putting together a full VR setup to stream with. Unless someone knows a source of good, free male models I don't know exists?
When it comes to segregation it's being worn down for talents including with hololive doing marketing involving talents from both live and stars. I have a particular plan that would allow for the transition from how it is to something new. My plan would actually not only keep the unicorns but get new people and even subtly change the taste of the unicorns. But ultimately it would have to be a slow and steady change to keep the unicorns present. It's impossible to say details that are worked out as for all I know you would take that and make a video about it. Such a thing could get lot's of attention after all and that's what RUclips videos thrive off of. Others in the comments could also spread the details of my plan. No offense Yam, it's just my personal paranoia about RUclips and people making content here as well as comments sections.
Check out ShoggMommy’s latest video on VTuber models for male vtuber live 2D models
Check on booth for 3D male vtuber models
Check Squiijivt’s video on PNGTuber Picrews for male PNGTuber options!
Hope this helps!
@@YamAlbat Thanks for the suggestions, I'll check out those in order. It should help a lot. It should also make that VR setup less needed for streaming and more for just going into the office from Hologra or a new... perspective in Koikatsu. Yes I do have adult games in my public Steam library, why do you ask?
The 2D is definitely what I'm looking for as I'm not going to be moving around much. I'm mainly going to do games until I can actually learn to sing, something I've never truly done.
Best of luck!
@@YamAlbat Thanks for the well wishes. Looks like I've found my answer with the first one.
As regards the Holostars and Holomems segregation, it appears that some of that is breaking down. As an example Ao-kun and sora just did a stream with Aurauran (or however his name is spelled) - Roberu streams with women all the time (it would be funny getting him to rizz Ao-kun, would she get disgusted or swoon)
No it dosn't need to change, it needs to weed out the nasty people.
"indie vtuber is the future" NO, there is a reason why corpo is successful to begin with, well specially looking at how indie in general specifically western indie are FULL of "VTWEETER" or typical "twitch streamer" that is the opposite of what vtuber offer as content creator/entertainer.
Just because black company like nijisanji stumbled with their international branch,they are still too big to fail and where some ppl will still go for their brand and exposure yeah even with that slavery like contract, meanwhile theres other company thats doing well and getting better which make corpo vtuber even better while indie still full of the same "vtweeter" problem.
People dont understand the harsh truth about vtubing/content creating/streaming that it doesnt matter how TALENTED,SKILLED and ENTERTAINING you are, if you dont know how the platform work like twitch on youtube, you still have a typical problem with normal youtuber, "more creative,more freedom" theres no point of creative freedom if no one watching and most of the time, "creative freedom" or something like that end up to the OPPOSITE of creative, its the lazy content, random no reaction "react content", a SLEEP subathon, or twitch "thot" content which is THE MAIN REASON OF PPL CHOOSE TO WATCH VIRTUAL RUclipsR in the first place.
"There is successful and popular corpo and there is successful and popular indie" yeah but both are the minority SPECIALLY INDIE, if somehow vtuber company gone for example, its still gonna be the same minority small percentage of less than 1% indie that will be popular and successful, while if the vtuber company still exist many other indie that manage to pass the audition and join company will get their exposure and help to become successful. Just remember to know what you sign for its 2024 there is no excuse like "i dont know when i sign with nijisanji that corpo is evil and bad" nah, you just didnt do enough research, didnt enough pay attention, the keyword here is BE REALISTIC, corpo still the future when they get even better but doesnt mean you cant do it as indie, but thinking "just be indie and forget about the choice of join corpo" probably wasting your potential because you can create 10 hours amazing videon if no one watch, then its useless or even worse,like those "indie vtweeter",like it or not "MAJORITY" of indie are those vtweeter who never even debut.
People still talking and complaining about like "not owning everything" yeah the company too,most of them when they graduate you,they lose the IP too,you see them use it again? no,but is it over for you? nope,your fans still follow you,IRONICALLY dokibird/selen is the example of this,shes joining a company,lose her character selen,but does she lose her fans? NOPE, so the whole "its over when you graduate is just not true.
vshojo business model? what business model? vshojo is literally a "clique" for popular indie or ex big corpo that already have BIG FANBASE with nepotism, oh vshojo so great because they offer you model that you can keep? ofc they have to do that,otherwise why would the ex big corpo want to join them? and btw how you guys indie can join vshojo again? audition? no YOU CANT JOIN VSHOJO,so whats the point? meanwhile company like hololive still "open audition" for any indie and again and again showing they can boost small indie like bijou for example.
in the end,be realistic and know what you are doing,corpo know what they are doing,what works and how to be successful.
Thanks for giving my content a chance and for sharing your thoughts. I am an independent hobbyist VTuber. I define success as making content I can be proud of. As per the video, I do believe there’s a place for agency VTubers, but I’d say only 10% of people belong in them. There’s 0 shame in making content as a hobby, or being someone who doesn’t upload regularly. You can always stick to watching agency VTubers, that’s totally fine!
@@YamAlbat sorry if I interject, i think he was speaking about the arguments you made and not his personal preference, i agree with some of his points and i only watch indies, also as you say success is a personal matter, like i don't understand why you would want be a hollywood actor, but many clearly do and for them bein actor in those movies is success. I love your content and always egearly wait for your videos, sorry for my horrible english :-(.
Niji’s stocks are literally plumbing. They will either go bankrupt or on the edge of bankruptcy.