My ‘18 Outback daily drives in style and is safe in wet and snow. CVT cuts power to save itself because hard off road is not what they make these for. The soft-road ability with comfort and MPG is unmatched.
On failed hill climbs I like to artificially move the brake bias back by playing with the e brake. Let’s you get as much braking as possible while still being able to steer.
Yeah, it was actually at this very unfortunate time when we found out that the e-brake failed sometime recently. It's fixed now. Luckily the complete lack of traction of the coal pile just sends us strait back down the way we came.
Motorcycle helmet had my dying lol, but seriously good move for safety. Hmm Mercedes supercharger for a bit more power? Granny looking sexy, cant wait for more vids.
My opinion and experience - X-Mode is rubbish. Whenever "off the road" faced with a situation where my vehicle`s (3.6 Outback) management system will "freeze" the vehicle into a standstill, my experience is not touch the x-mode as it causes more of the same...solution - to disengage traction control and then to climb the obstacle/ incline.. manage throttle control by keeping revs constant... Been in situations with slow climbing off road towing a heavy trailer where the management system with bring the vehicle into limp mode protecting the gearbox against high gearbox temperatures... park, cool off and carry on again.. I have no issues with the gearbox being CVT - I think the X-Mode and application there off is misleading and of limited use when climbing. Have/ had a bundle of Subi SUVs - 2006 onward - 2x current 3.6 Outbacks; 1x 2008 Outback; 1x Forester S-edition etc... live and play in South Africa) bottom line it is at most an activity vehicle and not a hard core 4x4...
The biggest problem ist CVT…it will cut down the Power for protection. CVT+ACT4 AWD is just good for improving handling in snow, but when you have a AT/MT+DCCD AWD, you are the King of the road🧐
bruceyyyyy I don’t unfortunately. To do it properly, i think I would also need to upgrade the center diff with either a 12kg or 20kg unit. And those are a bit spendy.
@@ModFoz that's exactly why I haven't swapped my gearbox out to a dual range. Without the center diff swap, you're still getting outperformed by an auto.
Tyler Scranton I wouldn’t say that at all, lol. My old XT was a 4EAT. While true the 4EAT is much better than the standard 5-speed, the dual-range is leaps and bounds better than the 4EAT.
Only 167 Hp in Granny. Incredible mods w/out all the ecu stuff on newer subies. I drive 2019 Crosstrek manual. 152hp. 145trq. No mods. The 2021 Crosstrek will have the Forester base engine. 182hp 176trq. CVT no manual?! I’ve owned 4 subies. 1rst 78’ 1600 Gl wagon 4-speed Awd. My wife drove it to & fro in Mi winters. I drove a 75’ Toyota Celica- 4-Speed. Rear drive, snow tires and 3 cinder blocks in the trunk. I could keep up, blew her away on snowy corners w rear drive drifting. Kept the Celica garaged and into an 87 Gl-10 Turbo wagon Awd 5-speed. Kept that till my daughter started driving, it became hers. I got into a 97 Honda CR-V the first year imported. 5-speed. Recently changed from Honda’s back to subies. Wife drives 2016 Legacy sedan H6 cvt. Me 2019 Crosstrek premium 6-Speed. Love the simplicity and no bullsh*t. CarPlay works great. Regular knobs for heat & Cooling etc. Take good care of Granny she’s feisty!!!
I am starting to think that buying a CRV might be a better route because you can put the range rover drive shaft with a viscous coupler in and lock the rear diff. Then it will go almost anywhere.
Nah I went with a Kia soul and gutted a brand new jeep Rubicon and put all the parts on the soul. Now that Kia soul can go everywhere. I didn't like the way the jeep looked.
We developed an e-locker for Subarus which is still the best engineered setup for them. Far stronger axles and diff, silent, selectable, safe, reliable, effective. Combined with DCCD, 4.44 diff gears, 1.446 low range gears, and mountains of turbo 2.5 torque which is instantly available, it can climb steep, rutted tracks with ease. No nasty surprises on wet tarmac either. All these other designs that came after what we did simply aren't as good.
The power cut in bruceyyyy's Outback is a big disadvantage... but your multi plate had the same problem, unfortunate. So I would say its a drawn in this test. But your Granny did more than I expected
That double hill did reveal some character about how the MPT works, although it was certainly a torture test... JonDZ Adventuring has a video that compares the torq locker on a less impossible ascent...nothing short of a back hoe could have made it up that coal mound with relying strictly on momentum
@@veganpotterthevegan nope more traction equals more wear. Well I guess it depends how you look at it. If you can drive it slower due to more traction from less pressure then it's less wear but if you're driving it the same then the opposite applies
I'm confused. Why didn't the AWD system transfer power to the rear wheels on the second (smaller) hill? On both cars it looked like they had traction, and could have helped to push the car up the hill.
It's because the angle we're driving up steadily increases in slope with less traction available to both front wheels and a lot traction to the back wheels. Once one of the front wheels break loose, the center coupler is overwhelmed and cannot transfer 100% of the power even when locked.
I think granny won the coal hill climb by about half a car length. There's a black pipe looking thing sticking out over the trail near the top and X-mode stopped with the pipe about in the center of the car while granny's rear spoiler appeared to be even with it.
That's sorta what I thought too, but we called it even in an effort to be fair given all the dust. You can definitely tell that Granny kept pushing on while the H6 started to run out of steam. Satisfactory result in my book considering the power difference between the two cars, and the fact that the outback had a lot more speed going in because of it. A better test would have been a hill where traction was actually a possibility
subaru awd's are amazing for day to day driving, in fact better than my jeep cherokee ADLock in the snow. but the CVT and the lack of 4Lo caps it pretty bad on severe conditions.
All all wrong at the end they're the reason why the vehicles couldn't go up that is because he didn't have enough output to work that's why you need a low-range gear your drivetrain was splitting the power 50/50 and all that good stuff but that amount of power was insufficient so it literally couldn't do anything you need a low range
Do you have any lift or spacers or any modification on the outback(new one) so you put the 245/65/17, or it`s a direct fit with no rubbing? I`m gonna buy or considering more like to buy a 3.0 h6 outback 2008 and I want to put some bigger wheels on it like those 245 65 17`s....
I have some similar size you're asking about, without any mods on my 2014 outback. but recommend you to use 225 instead, as there is no advantage in using wider one.
After watching that...I want to get rid of my 11 3.6 outback with the Auto trans. That was unreal when they both just stopped and no wheels spun. I am thinking a 5 sp stick would be a better choice :(
First I'd just say that this was a torture test. It's hard to tell why on camera, but just watch some of our other videos and you'll see that this is not really a concern unless you use your car like an ATV (as we do). Second, your car is different from either of the cars here because you have VTD (this is good). Your limitation would be the torque converter, not the transfer clutch. Third, autos are the way to go off-road because of the torque converter. You get as much or more torque multiplication (to the ground) out of torque converter models than you do with manuals with the import low-range. Manuals without low range (e.g., almost all manual Subarus) don't hold a candle to any model with a torque converter (including the ones in this video).
So weird, I know my 03 outback would make it up the second obstacle no problem. Granted mine is a 5 speed with all three diffs being LSDs and having a rear bias, but the torque to the rear on granny was surprisingly disappointing
I can see why you'd say that, but that obstacle was basically a torture test that we had to specifically seek out which revealed this characteristic of mpt centers. Doesn't really come across on camera what's happening either. We were climbing up 2 inclines; one was about 30 degrees, the other was closer to 45. Not an impossible climb per say, but to make it up on that line it would require lockers in both the front and rear diffs and probably low range too.
See if you can put these vehicle on man made articulation. Whether is be ramps and mounds of dirt. And have the camera on a tripod or stand. Try and get more accurate test with more accurate videography of how far each vehicle is going and why. This new torque locker is very interesting and everyone in the Subaru community around the world is highly intrigued on how effective it is. Also, are you also able to see if you can get a Subaru Forester xt (or any other vehicle that might have it). In the auto trans, and see if you are able to pull a fuse to lock the centre diff? Thanks From Australia 😁🇦🇺
We'll see what we can do. Would be an interesting test. Would love to throw Blubaru with her VTD into the mix also to see what difference the that makes vs. the MPT.
These were both relatively flat obstacles that even a stock Subaru could attempt. Given that, I think it's interesting how well Granny did with roughly half the power of the Outback's H6.
@@ethan928 This comment mainly pertained to the coal hill in hindsight. Power was absolutely a factor there, since both cars seemed to effectively have the same traction.
i'm wondering something with ECU and calculate of angle of the car. also there is some ecutek mod to give more power to the rear.. not for the newer car yet.
I’m curious at how a 4EAT with a dccdpro and torq locker would do? I have a 2012 Forester and am just starting on my off road upgrades. Great video! 👍🏾
In this test, it was the CD which was the weak point even though he has the switch - it couldn't transfer enough to the rear, so you having a DCCD wouldn't help.
Wait what just happened why locker wont spin rear wheels there at 9:40. Not enough torque? But front is spinning.. so what that means.? You need lower gearing? But 3.6 beast did same. So it means that subaru torque converter preventing it go further then? Smaller wheels would help maybe to make more torque to wheels no? So to spin both rear wheels locked it needs much more torque and lower gearing so its just looses. Is that what happening there?
The center diff probably isn't fully locking. Even with a switch the clutch packs in the center diff can wear and start to slip. When that happens the entire rear can loose power while the front, which is direct drive, will still work. Only the old School 4WD transmissions can actually 100% lock up the center diff without worry of clutch packs wearing out since the old school 4WD transmissions don't have clutch packs.
I'm not sure if you guys ever diagnosed the problem. Was the center diff slipping? Seems odd old red suby's rears weren't spinning. With locking center diff and rear locker I would have thought it could handle it.
Yes, we are. In the diff lock video we talk about how the true purpose of the center diff lock is preventing shock load damage. MPTs are not capable of transferring 100% torque to the rear let alone more than that due to the effect of the rear locker, so it's really not that surprising.
@@powerofyourbrains But even if it can only transfer 50% of power to the rear, shouldn't that be enough to get wheel spin? Are you saying the rear tires had traction but the engine couldn't muster enough torque to move them? Or is it that the center diff was slipping so not enough torque was getting back there?
@@Abbbb225 The result would be different if we also had a locker in the front. But because the front is open, a wheel spinning means that more than 50% is being sent rear.
Seems like something happened when you unlocked the center diff on that mud that was like "pavement". You could hear it bang as it unlocked. I'm sure it had a bit of torque bind but then it didn't seem like it was totally locked up again on the obstacle. Maybe it needed some more rotations without the challenge to really lock.
It did lock up again, but good traction with the locker does cause back torque, which was that noise you heard. We should probably change the trans oil, but I'm confident that the plates are still intact. For autos with the locker, a 3 way switch setup for the diff locker might just be in order. You'll see more in an episode soon to come
@@powerofyourbrains Trans oil is an interesting thought, since last time I serviced this I put the Valvoline "red bottle" high mileage stuff in, since it's annoying to drive to the dealer for trans fluid, and the Subaru stuff is a little expensive.
Queue the uneducated comments about how “the CTV is junk” and “my 1990 something Subaru is better because it can do all that with all 4 wheels removed while towing a 40,000 lb trailer”. My first Subaru was a 1996 and my current one is a 2015. I’ve owned 7 in total and I can say from experience the newer ones are more capable than old ones unless you modify an old one. It’s alway the same crap from the old Subaru owners, jealousy be thy name.
The cvt really does hold the car bad. Im being serious. i had a 2013 2.0i premium 5 speed and that thing went everywhere. But my dads forester with no xmode and a cvt couldnt do half of what i could do because the cvt wasnt capable. my 5 speed i could just do whatever. I had complete control. his cvt is just L and D
@@Traumatree If I'm not mistaken the tires are 245/70 R17 and they are Falken Wildpark A/T tires. They went with a really aggressive off road setup and it looks so cool.
Are you referring to the rear diff or center diff? Should be possible to lock up either. CVT is the transmission - locking that up just means you won't be able to go anywhere :)
@@powerofyourbrains Is there a center diff on the manual trans model 2018 or newer that can be locked with a switch? Sorry for being so uneducated in all of this
When putting on bigger tires, that requires more torque to turn them as easily as smaller stock tires. So that plays into this a bit. But unfortunatly not the greatest results. As I said before you could change your front and rear differential gearing if you are able to get new ring and pinions. Otherwise nothing beats a standard 4x4 system, with lockers and low range.
Unfortunately, the 4.44 final drive that Granny has already is the highest (or lowest, the terminology is confusing) gearing that Subaru has made, with no aftermarket options. Suppose we could get a set custom made but... We don't have that kinda cash. Lol Subarus low range is sweet if you're willing to put some money into it, but withoutquite a bit of work it's comparable to the auto in performance. We've no doubt a proper 4x4 would outperform us but... That's not what we're about. :D
@@astod9161 We could get a dual range for her pretty easily but, like I said, it's just not worth it for us without putting money into it. The center diff would need swapped out for a more aggressive unit to keep up with a locked MPT center. Sure we could put in a 4.44 final drive, and the swap the center, but that's not cheap. We'd also get the option to run a front LSD but again not cheap. And not to mention the reliability difference between the 4EAT and 5MT (the 4EAT is much much less likely to break in the middle of the woods)
@@astod9161 We've had opportunities, but a conversion isn't something we're interested in for many reasons. With 4.44 gears the torque converter outperforms all but the lowest ratio low ranges Subaru has offered, and we'd be better off just installing a high-stall torque converter instead because of that. The center slip was only revealed on what was more or less a torture test, and we can alleviate that with a VTD swap if we so choose (at the expense of snapping axles...). Mainly though, granny was built to send it. She'll never be the best careful crawler, but she's great at blasting up gnarly terrain.
There's a build walkaround video we made last year that explains it pretty thoroughly if you'd like to check that out (on the "mods for people with short attention spans" playlist).
Too bad the transmissions and gear ratios make you have to floor it to make it up stuff. My JKU would just walk up that stuff without needing so much momentum. I would like to get my wife a Subaru but hate their CVT.
@@powerofyourbrains Locked with deep tread and "without so much momentum" as your Subs require. Yes I would be able to walk up it compared to what you are doing.
2.5 ltrs , vrs 3.6 ltrs ? Why not a Outback 2.5 ltrs ? The old version , even just 2.5 ltrs , with conventional automatic transmission are best that the new Outback 3.6 ltrs with CVT
I'm not an expert but, the clacking noises from the front of the old Subaru..might be a problem! If the idiot with the vintage forester had of made sure his vehicle was sound..well then he might have put the new technology to shame! But, he was cheap and didn't care about his vehicle...soo..
@@veganpotterthevegan Funny you say that but a number of us were on quite a tough track today. I went up an incline with some nasty ruts in a Jeep Grand Cherokee with front, centre and back lockers without much trouble and one of the young fellas with my group tried it after me in his Nissan Navara with open diffs, he had to do the rest of the track on one wheel after blowing out a CV . You're right that anyone can get stuck or damage their rig but I suggest knowing your car and your own abilities, the four 4x4s with me and the next five 4x4s that followed us all thought it best to take the chook track around that obstacle . Don't get me wrong, I'm not blowing my own trumpet here, I just knew my car would do it and my young friend tried pushing his car a bit too hard which put all the others off the idea of possibly damaging their cars as I was the only one with lockers and I respect their decision....... Subarus are good cars but I honestly wouldn't of tried that part of the track in one........I think today's run is a pretty good example of what I've tried to say in my earlier statement.
Subaru for the win!! lol Thanks to you guys (and gal) for sharing your adventures with us.
My ‘18 Outback daily drives in style and is safe in wet and snow.
CVT cuts power to save itself because hard off road is not what they make these for.
The soft-road ability with comfort and MPG is unmatched.
On failed hill climbs I like to artificially move the brake bias back by playing with the e brake. Let’s you get as much braking as possible while still being able to steer.
Yeah, it was actually at this very unfortunate time when we found out that the e-brake failed sometime recently. It's fixed now. Luckily the complete lack of traction of the coal pile just sends us strait back down the way we came.
The outback with the new 2.4 turbo motor has got to be fantastic
Motorcycle helmet had my dying lol, but seriously good move for safety. Hmm Mercedes supercharger for a bit more power? Granny looking sexy, cant wait for more vids.
My opinion and experience - X-Mode is rubbish. Whenever "off the road" faced with a situation where my vehicle`s (3.6 Outback) management system will "freeze" the vehicle into a standstill, my experience is not touch the x-mode as it causes more of the same...solution - to disengage traction control and then to climb the obstacle/ incline.. manage throttle control by keeping revs constant... Been in situations with slow climbing off road towing a heavy trailer where the management system with bring the vehicle into limp mode protecting the gearbox against high gearbox temperatures... park, cool off and carry on again.. I have no issues with the gearbox being CVT - I think the X-Mode and application there off is misleading and of limited use when climbing. Have/ had a bundle of Subi SUVs - 2006 onward - 2x current 3.6 Outbacks; 1x 2008 Outback; 1x Forester S-edition etc... live and play in South Africa) bottom line it is at most an activity vehicle and not a hard core 4x4...
The biggest problem ist CVT…it will cut down the Power for protection. CVT+ACT4 AWD is just good for improving handling in snow, but when you have a AT/MT+DCCD AWD, you are the King of the road🧐
Don't think auto Dccd came to North america market but previous gens came with viscous LSDs also heard they were mediocre lol
I'd like to see what a 5-speed manual Dual-Range would do in comparison (as well as the same setup but with a TorqLocker)
You got one on yours yet Fox?
bruceyyyyy I don’t unfortunately. To do it properly, i think I would also need to upgrade the center diff with either a 12kg or 20kg unit. And those are a bit spendy.
@@ModFoz that's exactly why I haven't swapped my gearbox out to a dual range. Without the center diff swap, you're still getting outperformed by an auto.
Tyler Scranton I wouldn’t say that at all, lol. My old XT was a 4EAT. While true the 4EAT is much better than the standard 5-speed, the dual-range is leaps and bounds better than the 4EAT.
I've pre ordered a torq locker to put in my 5mt 1.59:1 dual range + 20kg centre equipped outback. I can't wait.
A Subaru guy once said the CVT cuts power to give the gears and straps inside the transmission a break. Makes sense.
my takeaway: computers stuck and i need a torq locker
Next mod to the Granny:
Full electric powertrain conversion
Thats one way to get the torque we're missing. I'd be down
@@powerofyourbrains What about my old electric supercharger?
cvt, it automatically cuts power to prevent destruction, tfl prove that.🤣
Right
Only 167 Hp in Granny. Incredible mods w/out all the ecu stuff on newer subies. I drive 2019 Crosstrek manual. 152hp. 145trq. No mods. The 2021 Crosstrek will have the Forester base engine. 182hp 176trq. CVT no manual?!
I’ve owned 4 subies. 1rst 78’ 1600 Gl wagon 4-speed Awd. My wife drove it to & fro in Mi winters. I drove a 75’ Toyota Celica- 4-Speed. Rear drive, snow tires and 3 cinder blocks in the trunk. I could keep up, blew her away on snowy corners w rear drive drifting. Kept the Celica garaged and into an 87 Gl-10 Turbo wagon Awd 5-speed. Kept that till my daughter started driving, it became hers. I got into a 97 Honda CR-V the first year imported. 5-speed. Recently changed from Honda’s back to subies. Wife drives 2016 Legacy sedan H6 cvt. Me 2019 Crosstrek premium 6-Speed. Love the simplicity and no bullsh*t. CarPlay works great.
Regular knobs for heat & Cooling etc. Take good care of Granny she’s feisty!!!
I am starting to think that buying a CRV might be a better route because you can put the range rover drive shaft with a viscous coupler in and lock the rear diff. Then it will go almost anywhere.
Nah I went with a Kia soul and gutted a brand new jeep Rubicon and put all the parts on the soul. Now that Kia soul can go everywhere. I didn't like the way the jeep looked.
We developed an e-locker for Subarus which is still the best engineered setup for them. Far stronger axles and diff, silent, selectable, safe, reliable, effective. Combined with DCCD, 4.44 diff gears, 1.446 low range gears, and mountains of turbo 2.5 torque which is instantly available, it can climb steep, rutted tracks with ease. No nasty surprises on wet tarmac either. All these other designs that came after what we did simply aren't as good.
The power cut in bruceyyyy's Outback is a big disadvantage... but your multi plate had the same problem, unfortunate. So I would say its a drawn in this test. But your Granny did more than I expected
That double hill did reveal some character about how the MPT works, although it was certainly a torture test... JonDZ Adventuring has a video that compares the torq locker on a less impossible ascent...nothing short of a back hoe could have made it up that coal mound with relying strictly on momentum
Both rigs are nice. I love the granny rid, though. Nice build.
Lower your tyre pressure, less work on drivetrain, more surface area, bigger footprint 👍
No, more work on the drive train😅
@@veganpotterthevegan nope more traction equals more wear. Well I guess it depends how you look at it. If you can drive it slower due to more traction from less pressure then it's less wear but if you're driving it the same then the opposite applies
I'm confused. Why didn't the AWD system transfer power to the rear wheels on the second (smaller) hill? On both cars it looked like they had traction, and could have helped to push the car up the hill.
It's because the angle we're driving up steadily increases in slope with less traction available to both front wheels and a lot traction to the back wheels. Once one of the front wheels break loose, the center coupler is overwhelmed and cannot transfer 100% of the power even when locked.
@@powerofyourbrains Makes sense. Thanks.
I think granny won the coal hill climb by about half a car length. There's a black pipe looking thing sticking out over the trail near the top and X-mode stopped with the pipe about in the center of the car while granny's rear spoiler appeared to be even with it.
That's sorta what I thought too, but we called it even in an effort to be fair given all the dust. You can definitely tell that Granny kept pushing on while the H6 started to run out of steam. Satisfactory result in my book considering the power difference between the two cars, and the fact that the outback had a lot more speed going in because of it. A better test would have been a hill where traction was actually a possibility
subaru awd's are amazing for day to day driving, in fact better than my jeep cherokee ADLock in the snow. but the CVT and the lack of 4Lo caps it pretty bad on severe conditions.
X- mode Off and Esp Off would been better on that steep hill
it seems we are trying to push this subie to do way more than it is built. there is always another line. :)
That is certainly our intent
All all wrong at the end they're the reason why the vehicles couldn't go up that is because he didn't have enough output to work that's why you need a low-range gear your drivetrain was splitting the power 50/50 and all that good stuff but that amount of power was insufficient so it literally couldn't do anything you need a low range
In that loose gravel with low range they will be so slow that will not climb the half of what they did.what they need is manual tranny and a turbo
Immortan Jon sent me. Channel looks sweet. Subbed. :D
Would be cool to see a new xt engine in that granny
Do you have any lift or spacers or any modification on the outback(new one) so you put the 245/65/17, or it`s a direct fit with no rubbing? I`m gonna buy or considering more like to buy a 3.0 h6 outback 2008 and I want to put some bigger wheels on it like those 245 65 17`s....
I have some similar size you're asking about, without any mods on my 2014 outback. but recommend you to use 225 instead, as there is no advantage in using wider one.
After watching that...I want to get rid of my 11 3.6 outback with the Auto trans. That was unreal when they both just stopped and no wheels spun. I am thinking a 5 sp stick would be a better choice :(
First I'd just say that this was a torture test. It's hard to tell why on camera, but just watch some of our other videos and you'll see that this is not really a concern unless you use your car like an ATV (as we do). Second, your car is different from either of the cars here because you have VTD (this is good). Your limitation would be the torque converter, not the transfer clutch. Third, autos are the way to go off-road because of the torque converter. You get as much or more torque multiplication (to the ground) out of torque converter models than you do with manuals with the import low-range. Manuals without low range (e.g., almost all manual Subarus) don't hold a candle to any model with a torque converter (including the ones in this video).
The 11 outback has the 5eat auto not CVT. But it doesnt have xmode either. I would keep it over any manual options.
At that speed, Bruceyyyy’s Outback would have shut off X-Mode anyway. It’s designed to deactivate at 18 MPH.
So weird, I know my 03 outback would make it up the second obstacle no problem. Granted mine is a 5 speed with all three diffs being LSDs and having a rear bias, but the torque to the rear on granny was surprisingly disappointing
I can see why you'd say that, but that obstacle was basically a torture test that we had to specifically seek out which revealed this characteristic of mpt centers. Doesn't really come across on camera what's happening either. We were climbing up 2 inclines; one was about 30 degrees, the other was closer to 45. Not an impossible climb per say, but to make it up on that line it would require lockers in both the front and rear diffs and probably low range too.
Where did you get your front LSD and what type of LSD is it?
@@AWDfreak it's the stock one
@@1483Frenchman As far as I know, only the WRX STi has ever come with a standard front LSD.
@@AWDfreak some Outbacks with the winter package, and the 5 speed manual had LSD's in the front. My VIN even states it, and I've tested it myself
@11:50 250HP!!! And the power doesn’t get delivered! “ best awd system on Earth” Hu!!? Yeah fucking right!
its because they put some shitty cvt in it stupidest decision ever by Subaru
Why you don't use manual transmition with dual range. I think Forester with 1,59 reduction ratio can be better to uphill.
I can see why you'd think that
Unfortunately the dual range Subaru hasn't been available in the US since 1990.
Got a 2018 outback and just got a 2020 ascent
See if you can put these vehicle on man made articulation. Whether is be ramps and mounds of dirt. And have the camera on a tripod or stand.
Try and get more accurate test with more accurate videography of how far each vehicle is going and why.
This new torque locker is very interesting and everyone in the Subaru community around the world is highly intrigued on how effective it is.
Also, are you also able to see if you can get a Subaru Forester xt (or any other vehicle that might have it). In the auto trans, and see if you are able to pull a fuse to lock the centre diff?
Thanks From Australia 😁🇦🇺
We'll see what we can do. Would be an interesting test. Would love to throw Blubaru with her VTD into the mix also to see what difference the that makes vs. the MPT.
These were both relatively flat obstacles that even a stock Subaru could attempt. Given that, I think it's interesting how well Granny did with roughly half the power of the Outback's H6.
Power isn't always everything. This was a test of the diffs anyways...
@@ethan928 This comment mainly pertained to the coal hill in hindsight. Power was absolutely a factor there, since both cars seemed to effectively have the same traction.
Then why wasn't the video title,
260hp h6 outback vs stock na 150hp forester up hill challenge?
10:33
Yes SUBARU do it
to save *CVT*
@bruceyyyyy
i'm wondering something with ECU and calculate of angle of the car. also there is some ecutek mod to give more power to the rear.. not for the newer car yet.
I did the same test last year and it resulted in diagonal spin but the car couldn't go any further
@@bruceyyyyy I think you were exhibiting the same issue Granny had due to that particular geography
cvt lets that car down so much
I’m curious at how a 4EAT with a dccdpro and torq locker would do?
I have a 2012 Forester and am just starting on my off road upgrades.
Great video! 👍🏾
In this test, it was the CD which was the weak point even though he has the switch - it couldn't transfer enough to the rear, so you having a DCCD wouldn't help.
Wait what just happened why locker wont spin rear wheels there at 9:40. Not enough torque? But front is spinning.. so what that means.? You need lower gearing? But 3.6 beast did same. So it means that subaru torque converter preventing it go further then?
Smaller wheels would help maybe to make more torque to wheels no?
So to spin both rear wheels locked it needs much more torque and lower gearing so its just looses. Is that what happening there?
The center diff probably isn't fully locking. Even with a switch the clutch packs in the center diff can wear and start to slip. When that happens the entire rear can loose power while the front, which is direct drive, will still work.
Only the old School 4WD transmissions can actually 100% lock up the center diff without worry of clutch packs wearing out since the old school 4WD transmissions don't have clutch packs.
Yeah the centre viscous coupler was slipping causing most of the torque to be sent to the front wheels.
I'm not sure if you guys ever diagnosed the problem. Was the center diff slipping? Seems odd old red suby's rears weren't spinning. With locking center diff and rear locker I would have thought it could handle it.
Yes, we are. In the diff lock video we talk about how the true purpose of the center diff lock is preventing shock load damage. MPTs are not capable of transferring 100% torque to the rear let alone more than that due to the effect of the rear locker, so it's really not that surprising.
@@powerofyourbrains But even if it can only transfer 50% of power to the rear, shouldn't that be enough to get wheel spin? Are you saying the rear tires had traction but the engine couldn't muster enough torque to move them? Or is it that the center diff was slipping so not enough torque was getting back there?
@@Abbbb225 The result would be different if we also had a locker in the front. But because the front is open, a wheel spinning means that more than 50% is being sent rear.
@@powerofyourbrains Did you mean "no more than 50%?"
@@Abbbb225 nope
Imma need the coordinates to this coal pile....
37.8969640, -81.8992500
@@powerofyourbrains
I'm ashamed to admit it but.. Granny is a gilf...
My 2023 crosstrek made it up a hill taller than that with xmode all I have is the 2.0 cvt
every time you censored something i was expecting the seinfeld theme
I bet those 4x4 electric cars could do it. Independent motors running to each wheel..
Can’t figure out if WV is hotbed of innovation or you are all just super bored...either way we get to watch your “adventures”!
Thanks! Always more ideas than there is time to execute them, but we try.
Yes
Seems like something happened when you unlocked the center diff on that mud that was like "pavement". You could hear it bang as it unlocked. I'm sure it had a bit of torque bind but then it didn't seem like it was totally locked up again on the obstacle. Maybe it needed some more rotations without the challenge to really lock.
It did lock up again, but good traction with the locker does cause back torque, which was that noise you heard. We should probably change the trans oil, but I'm confident that the plates are still intact. For autos with the locker, a 3 way switch setup for the diff locker might just be in order. You'll see more in an episode soon to come
@@powerofyourbrains Trans oil is an interesting thought, since last time I serviced this I put the Valvoline "red bottle" high mileage stuff in, since it's annoying to drive to the dealer for trans fluid, and the Subaru stuff is a little expensive.
No turbo no low range 😂😂😂 thats a week Forester
this is no way i'd make it in my tuscon.
Ultimately on this hill it's about how crazy you are, not so much about traction
So no power transfer to the rear??? I recall the 4eat did transfer to the rear even in similar situations.
Wonder if a sti with the dccd would do....
Queue the uneducated comments about how “the CTV is junk” and “my 1990 something Subaru is better because it can do all that with all 4 wheels removed while towing a 40,000 lb trailer”. My first Subaru was a 1996 and my current one is a 2015. I’ve owned 7 in total and I can say from experience the newer ones are more capable than old ones unless you modify an old one. It’s alway the same crap from the old Subaru owners, jealousy be thy name.
The cvt really does hold the car bad. Im being serious. i had a 2013 2.0i premium 5 speed and that thing went everywhere. But my dads forester with no xmode and a cvt couldnt do half of what i could do because the cvt wasnt capable. my 5 speed i could just do whatever. I had complete control. his cvt is just L and D
Andrew ruclips.net/video/FW9OB0NARdk/видео.html
@@Traumatree If I'm not mistaken the tires are 245/70 R17 and they are Falken Wildpark A/T tires. They went with a really aggressive off road setup and it looks so cool.
Curious what tyre pressures you were using for the hill climb
10-15
They are beating the hell out of their vehicles. I would not just glad they have the ability if I need it
That forester is gen 1...97-2003 I think. It sure has lasted a long time. You don't see too many Ford explorers of that era!
I think this video convinced to buy the crosstrek with the manual trans. I don't think there is a way to lock up a CVT.
Are you referring to the rear diff or center diff? Should be possible to lock up either. CVT is the transmission - locking that up just means you won't be able to go anywhere :)
@@powerofyourbrains Is there a center diff on the manual trans model 2018 or newer that can be locked with a switch? Sorry for being so uneducated in all of this
@@LarryRichelli Hey, no worries. Unfortunately there is not. The only manual Subaru that could be modded to provide some center lockup is the STi
When putting on bigger tires, that requires more torque to turn them as easily as smaller stock tires. So that plays into this a bit. But unfortunatly not the greatest results. As I said before you could change your front and rear differential gearing if you are able to get new ring and pinions. Otherwise nothing beats a standard 4x4 system, with lockers and low range.
Unfortunately, the 4.44 final drive that Granny has already is the highest (or lowest, the terminology is confusing) gearing that Subaru has made, with no aftermarket options. Suppose we could get a set custom made but... We don't have that kinda cash. Lol
Subarus low range is sweet if you're willing to put some money into it, but withoutquite a bit of work it's comparable to the auto in performance.
We've no doubt a proper 4x4 would outperform us but... That's not what we're about. :D
Can someone buy Granny a dual range??
@@astod9161 We could get a dual range for her pretty easily but, like I said, it's just not worth it for us without putting money into it. The center diff would need swapped out for a more aggressive unit to keep up with a locked MPT center. Sure we could put in a 4.44 final drive, and the swap the center, but that's not cheap. We'd also get the option to run a front LSD but again not cheap. And not to mention the reliability difference between the 4EAT and 5MT (the 4EAT is much much less likely to break in the middle of the woods)
@@astod9161 We've had opportunities, but a conversion isn't something we're interested in for many reasons. With 4.44 gears the torque converter outperforms all but the lowest ratio low ranges Subaru has offered, and we'd be better off just installing a high-stall torque converter instead because of that. The center slip was only revealed on what was more or less a torture test, and we can alleviate that with a VTD swap if we so choose (at the expense of snapping axles...). Mainly though, granny was built to send it. She'll never be the best careful crawler, but she's great at blasting up gnarly terrain.
Not worth the torq lockers... what's that knocking sound on Granny?
Was wondering the samething
All of this would be simpler and easier with a 4x4 transfer case.
Exactly
Also you forgot the ████ at 05:06
We're good with being pg-13. It's lazier, and censoring is annoying.
So who has X-mode, and who has Torq Locker?
Forester 2014 on XT Turbo is a way better vehicle, similar power, way lighter and a stronger CVT
I have an forester xt 2018...and the cvt is the biggest bullshit on earth
Put a h6 (3.0, 3.3, 3.6) and then compare again... or h4 turbo
That should show much better results - not sure for 100% tho
Both Subaru vehicles
How did you mount your winch?
There's a build walkaround video we made last year that explains it pretty thoroughly if you'd like to check that out (on the "mods for people with short attention spans" playlist).
What's that clicking sound ?
hardened steel notches ruclips.net/video/JcbAZOak974/видео.html
Why cvt? Whyyyyyyy
CVT is intended for better fuel economy but lacks a lower torque end.
Granny .
Too bad the transmissions and gear ratios make you have to floor it to make it up stuff. My JKU would just walk up that stuff without needing so much momentum. I would like to get my wife a Subaru but hate their CVT.
Wrong. Unless you're tires are connected together by tracks
@@powerofyourbrains Locked with deep tread and "without so much momentum" as your Subs require. Yes I would be able to walk up it compared to what you are doing.
@@underthelibertytree712 I understand that most Subarus don't have low range. I'm talking about gravity man, they are not the same thing lol
@@powerofyourbrains you can thank the CVT for the lack of low torque end range.
The cvt can’t go up hills not the awd
Subaru was not made for this.
the first gens are just better cars
2.5 ltrs , vrs 3.6 ltrs ? Why not a Outback 2.5 ltrs ?
The old version , even just 2.5 ltrs , with conventional automatic transmission are best that the new Outback 3.6 ltrs with CVT
I'm not an expert but, the clacking noises from the front of the old Subaru..might be a problem!
If the idiot with the vintage forester had of made sure his vehicle was sound..well then he might have put the new technology to shame!
But, he was cheap and didn't care about his vehicle...soo..
It sounds like the hook for the winch might be clacking against the skid plate. Just my observation
You are indeed no expert, so why call him an idiot? The clacking is the torq locker ratchet
The Jeep won
Just put Subaru body on a jeep , then you'll make it .
All credit to Subarus but the fools that buy them really are clueless by taking them onto tracks that hard core 4x4s find tough....
@@veganpotterthevegan
Funny you say that but a number of us were on quite a tough track today.
I went up an incline with some nasty ruts in a Jeep Grand Cherokee with front, centre and back lockers without much trouble and one of the young fellas with my group tried it after me in his Nissan Navara with open diffs, he had to do the rest of the track on one wheel after blowing out a CV .
You're right that anyone can get stuck or damage their rig but I suggest knowing your car and your own abilities, the four 4x4s with me and the next five 4x4s that followed us all thought it best to take the chook track around that obstacle .
Don't get me wrong, I'm not blowing my own trumpet here, I just knew my car would do it and my young friend tried pushing his car a bit too hard which put all the others off the idea of possibly damaging their cars as I was the only one with lockers and I respect their decision.......
Subarus are good cars but I honestly wouldn't of tried that part of the track in one........I think today's run is a pretty good example of what I've tried to say in my earlier statement.