Thank you so much for producing this fascinating video! I have a feeling that there’s some ‘binge watching’ coming on. I lived in Crosby until I was 21, then moved to Loughborough,where I quickly found the GCR, which is a frequent visiting place. We are so very blessed to have such a wonderful facility on our doorstep! I’ve always loved steam traction, and can still remember ‘steamers’ coming into Lime Street Station!
@@chrisberry9017 thank you. I live not far from where you did . Am now in Litherland before that Bootle. The Great central is a fantastic line, was there again recently at the Quorn bus rally
Absolutely fascinated by 06:10 and that tunnel under Hamilton Square. I have worked in that area in the 90s and was in and out of electrical substations. I never even thought what was behind the yellow doors. I like anything like this, especially subterranea. There is so much beneath our feet we never know about as it is lost through the generations.
The exit was once in regular use, for worker's in that part of Birkenhead docks. It is rarely open these days, usually when maintenance is being done on the lift's. There's lots of Hidden tunnels in the area. The most famous being the Williamson tunnels. There's also countless ’lost rivers' around. They aren't lost as such but have been placed in culverts. If you're interested in subterranean subjects you would like Martin Zero's channel. Mostly Manchester area, but he goes to some fascinating places.youtube.com/@MartinZero?si=9ZkiOmV4uOz4fkQs
The B&W photo of Mersey tank loco "Liverpool", that loco ended up in Australia. After the locos were retired from Mersey Railway service they were sent to Beyer Peacock who overhauled them and removed the condensing equipment. The Major, Liverpool Connaught and Gladstone were bought by John Brown a mining magnate who had a large private colliery railway system called the Richmond Vale Railway. The Mersey tank locos were numbered 5,6,7 and 8. Number 5 lasted the longest ending her days at the Hexham depot where she was in use as a buffer stop. All the locos on that railway came from England including 13 ROD's of which three still survive the last one dropping it's fire for the final time in 1973. The loco had a long a varied career having served in France in WW1. Unlike the preserved ROD the RVR ROD's were never altered from their Great Central design. The RVR used steam right to the end in June 1987.
Thanks for the information on the ex Mersey railway locos. The Major & Cecil Raikes are preserved. Though Cecil Raikes is in the care of Liverpool museums its sadly not on public display
@@AussiePom that's a real shame. Cecil Raikes was briefly on display outside. But it deserves a place in a museum. We have a lot of items hidden away in store that should be on view to the public.
@@Merseywail Well that's what happens here when a museum is run by the state. It wasn't always run by the state but all the engines that ran on the state's rail system were given to the museum under a deed of gift arrangement whereby the state retained ownership but the upkeep and day to day maintenance was down to the museum. Then the state decided to muscle in and take over the whole operation. The Major was bought by museum members so they own it but the state isn't interested in private railway exhibits and the Major has been left outside to rot. The side tanks look like Swiss cheese for there's that many holes in them.
I had never even thought about the Underground before the electric trains, so I learned a whole lot this evening. Well researched, produced and written. Some really good pictures as well, which has been a consistent theme throughout your videos; much appreciated. Well done, sir!
I have that issue of Punch and Linley Sambourne's emgraving, with Edward Watkin saying "Oh Mersea, why can't I have a tunnel" as he was proposing a Channel Tunnel at the time. In the 1960s, the remains of a Beaumont machine were still half buried in the chalk at the entrance to one of the Channel trial bores.
@@Merseywail I know what you mean Merseywail. I am doing a family tree search presently, it's one thing collecting the information, it's another to present it meaningfully. All the best to you. 😊👍
Before everything was remodelled in the late 1970's you could still smell stale soot and coal at James Street and Central. It must have been horrendous in the steam days. I once read that another reason for its bad reputation in the 19th C , was because prostitutes were taken by their clients in some of the carriages, during the journey through the tunnel.
@flunkyminion thanks, I've not heard that before, but it wouldn't surprise me 🫣 . The carriages were so disgusting they couldn't sell them on & they were scrapped
@@maxtivey32 it does yes. To have two of them still surviving today is great. Hopefully Cecil Raikes will soon be on permanent display. It would be great if it could do a run from James st to Rock Ferry, but its highly unlikely that would ever happen
It's a great place to visit. If you come be sure to visit the museums we have here, and you can have a tram ride at the Wirral transport museum over the water in Birkenhead. www.visitwirral.com/things-to-do/wirral-tramway-and-wirral-transport-museum-p18340
It would have been a limit on capacity, not as bad on the pneumatic system though. Its fairly obvious the promoter's were gambling on being bought out by a bigger company. My guess is they were hoping for the GWR. Though they had gotten their fingers burnt with the seven tunnel & would also have had a fight on with the LNWR
I’ve been after the footage and details I’m this video since I was a kid some 40 odd years ago … where was all this info hiding? I would love to know where these images came from. Is there a book ?
There has been two books published on the Mersey railway. "The line beneath the liners" by John W Gahan. Countyvise & Avon Anglia, 1983 and the more accurate "The Mersey railway" By G W Parkin, 1965 & 1970. I also used the highly accurate "Fox on the Mersey railway and Rich on the Mersey railway lifts" by Francis Fox & William E Rich. The Institution of civil Engineer's 1886. I also used a collection of parliamentary acts from 1866 to 1920. These were the main sourses. As well as my own collection of photographs and postcards from over the years. The tunnel pictures were from a guy who works on the tracks
@@Merseywail thank you so much for all of that info. I will have a look and see if those books are available. You know, concerning those 2 abandoned headings, the one for the proposed dock extensions in Birkenhead and Liverpool I first became aware of them back sometime around 77 when I first started riding the trains with my “Merseyrover” ticket £3:10 and stamped with LMS for some reason. I bought them from Meols station station as Hamilton Square which was my later point of joining the system didn’t seem to see, them. This was before zone tickets. Anyway I used to crane my head against the window and shielding out the light would try and see anything interesting as we sped down the tunnels. I saw the one as we approached James street end first and later on the Birkenhead north one. For years I asked staff drivers and no one could tell me anything. Most looked at me like I was stupid. “Why would anyone be interested in a dirty old black hole in a tunnel ?”. It was only recently when I joined the FB group Merseyrail group that after many questions asked that a few folk with the answers helped me out but no one had any pictures. About a year ago, I decided to revisit the issue and I rigged up my GoPro and strapped it to a very powerful LED torch and the plan was to point it through the Windows in the carriage and hopefullly illuminate the tunnel wall hoping that with a nice long view with a narrow angle, I reckoned I’d get some great footage that should look down the old headings. Unfortunately I didn’t realise that the Windows had been modified with brackets that barely allows them to open more than about 4 cms and it was impossible for me to position the camera. I hadn’t been on the trains for years and I seemed to remember that those top windows would incline to about 30 degrees and there would have been plenty of room. … and then along came your good self sir! I am eternally grateful. Thankfully in the days if the internet these things are gradually surfacing. Similar areas of interest like the Woodside station, Tranmere and bidston civil defence bunkers and firstly, prior to the internet and thankfully down to the publishing of those fine books on the Wirral way and what the railway looked like. I’m now looking at finding details about the old, what I think, was the old RAF installation that used to be at the top of lever Causeway which I believe had a communications system and could have been chain home (less likely) but. Probably HF comms for coastal aircraft defending the Atlantic convoys … but that’s another story… Oh yes and inside Bidston windmill too… I could go on … hahah Anyway thanks again for all the gen !! please publish some more stuff soon hahah
@@Merseywail do you reckon the track workers have any more interesting photos? I’m keen to find out more about the underground lake with the boat on it… 😳😳
@@buffplums yes I used to get the same looks whenever I asked about the railway. The windows of the train were modified because passengers kept smashing their heads on the open windows. It's possible I might be able to find out about the RAF installation. Am in a group that has preserved buses at Hooton Park. The aircraft guy's might know, though they can be a difficult at times
@@buffplums I think the underground lake is a myth. Such a lake would have completely flooded the tunnel workings as happened to the GWR Severn tunnel. A boat may have been used in the drainage heading, but when the pumps are turned on full its quite possible to walk through them. As a Blue Peter presenter did in about 1986. The two published books regularly appear on Amazon or Ebay and I think there is a digital version of the 1886 book available for download somewhere. I have an original
Thank you so much for producing this fascinating video! I have a feeling that there’s some ‘binge watching’ coming on. I lived in Crosby until I was 21, then moved to Loughborough,where I quickly found the GCR, which is a frequent visiting place. We are so very blessed to have such a wonderful facility on our doorstep! I’ve always loved steam traction, and can still remember ‘steamers’ coming into Lime Street Station!
@@chrisberry9017 thank you. I live not far from where you did . Am now in Litherland before that Bootle. The Great central is a fantastic line, was there again recently at the Quorn bus rally
Absolutely fascinated by 06:10 and that tunnel under Hamilton Square. I have worked in that area in the 90s and was in and out of electrical substations. I never even thought what was behind the yellow doors.
I like anything like this, especially subterranea. There is so much beneath our feet we never know about as it is lost through the generations.
The exit was once in regular use, for worker's in that part of Birkenhead docks. It is rarely open these days, usually when maintenance is being done on the lift's. There's lots of Hidden tunnels in the area. The most famous being the Williamson tunnels. There's also countless ’lost rivers' around. They aren't lost as such but have been placed in culverts. If you're interested in subterranean subjects you would like Martin Zero's channel. Mostly Manchester area, but he goes to some fascinating places.youtube.com/@MartinZero?si=9ZkiOmV4uOz4fkQs
The B&W photo of Mersey tank loco "Liverpool", that loco ended up in Australia. After the locos were retired from Mersey Railway service they were sent to Beyer Peacock who overhauled them and removed the condensing equipment. The Major, Liverpool Connaught and Gladstone were bought by John Brown a mining magnate who had a large private colliery railway system called the Richmond Vale Railway. The Mersey tank locos were numbered 5,6,7 and 8. Number 5 lasted the longest ending her days at the Hexham depot where she was in use as a buffer stop. All the locos on that railway came from England including 13 ROD's of which three still survive the last one dropping it's fire for the final time in 1973. The loco had a long a varied career having served in France in WW1. Unlike the preserved ROD the RVR ROD's were never altered from their Great Central design. The RVR used steam right to the end in June 1987.
Thanks for the information on the ex Mersey railway locos. The Major & Cecil Raikes are preserved. Though Cecil Raikes is in the care of Liverpool museums its sadly not on public display
@@Merseywail The Major out here isn't fit for display as it's a rusty brown colour.
@@Merseywail Here's a video filmed in 1987 on the Richmond Vale Railway and it's history
ruclips.net/video/b0NVFDX464Q/видео.htmlsi=MEuBZzBM084XzeIv
@@AussiePom that's a real shame. Cecil Raikes was briefly on display outside. But it deserves a place in a museum. We have a lot of items hidden away in store that should be on view to the public.
@@Merseywail Well that's what happens here when a museum is run by the state. It wasn't always run by the state but all the engines that ran on the state's rail system were given to the museum under a deed of gift arrangement whereby the state retained ownership but the upkeep and day to day maintenance was down to the museum. Then the state decided to muscle in and take over the whole operation.
The Major was bought by museum members so they own it but the state isn't interested in private railway exhibits and the Major has been left outside to rot. The side tanks look like Swiss cheese for there's that many holes in them.
Thank you, I really enjoyed that, brought lots of memories back!
@mikeg3293 thanks. Are you the guy that used to work down there that commented on billys liverpool of yesterday Facebook page?
I had never even thought about the Underground before the electric trains, so I learned a whole lot this evening. Well researched, produced and written. Some really good pictures as well, which has been a consistent theme throughout your videos; much appreciated. Well done, sir!
Thanks for the kind comments. I find the research an enjoyable part of the process.
Brilliant informative film. Many thanks
Thanks Andrew, enjoyed the research putting it together. Am gathering whatever I can for the next part
I have that issue of Punch and Linley Sambourne's emgraving, with Edward Watkin saying "Oh Mersea, why can't I have a tunnel" as he was proposing a Channel Tunnel at the time. In the 1960s, the remains of a Beaumont machine were still half buried in the chalk at the entrance to one of the Channel trial bores.
Shame it can't be retrieved and put on display
Well-done Merseywail, another well researched and presented documentary. Very enjoyable, look forward to your next production. Thank you. 😊
Thanks John, doing the research is part of the enjoyment. The hardest part is making sense of it all & putting it together
@@Merseywail I know what you mean Merseywail. I am doing a family tree search presently, it's one thing collecting the information, it's another to present it meaningfully. All the best to you. 😊👍
Brilliant content mate, been binging this channel it’s so informative
Cheers glad to hear you're enjoying the content.
Really enjoyed that and learned a lot! Thank you
Cheers for that. It's a subject that hasn't had much attention. Hope this has redressed that a little
11.00 Use to be one of those boxes in Rotherhithe, it was called the punishment box. They said Bobbies would have 2 months leave or worse.
I imagine it would have been very grim working the box. There is a ventilation shaft close by but I doubt it would make much difference
Thanks for this as its very informative
Cheers David
Enjoyable video, thank you
Thanks for the kind comment
Before everything was remodelled in the late 1970's you could still smell stale soot and coal at James Street and Central. It must have been horrendous in the steam days.
I once read that another reason for its bad reputation in the 19th C , was because prostitutes were taken by their clients in some of the carriages, during the journey through the tunnel.
@flunkyminion thanks, I've not heard that before, but it wouldn't surprise me 🫣 . The carriages were so disgusting they couldn't sell them on & they were scrapped
Really interesting and enjoyable to watch and listen to thanks
Thanks Steven, it's a subject that doesn't get much coverage. Hopefully this video has redressed that
Many thanks for a good informative video
Thanks, not a subject widely covered. The road tunnel gets all the glory
Really interesting local history ❤️
Thanks. The Queensway Road tunnel always seems to get all the attention. But the Mersey railway was THE first mersey tunnel
The 0-6-4 ''Cecil Raikes' worked on for many years as a colliery engine. It still survives but I am out of touch these days as to its present home.
It's currently in storage in a warehouse in Liverpool docks.
#1 'The Major' also survives in NSW Australia.
@@maxtivey32 it does yes. To have two of them still surviving today is great. Hopefully Cecil Raikes will soon be on permanent display. It would be great if it could do a run from James st to Rock Ferry, but its highly unlikely that would ever happen
Interesting video. I never been to Liverpool but I do want to go there. Probably I might go to Liverpool next year.
It's a great place to visit. If you come be sure to visit the museums we have here, and you can have a tram ride at the Wirral transport museum over the water in Birkenhead. www.visitwirral.com/things-to-do/wirral-tramway-and-wirral-transport-museum-p18340
@@Merseywail Ok. Thanks anyway 🙂
Was a cable trolley system ever proposed? Seems obvious steam engines would be a problem in a tunnel.
It would have been a limit on capacity, not as bad on the pneumatic system though. Its fairly obvious the promoter's were gambling on being bought out by a bigger company. My guess is they were hoping for the GWR. Though they had gotten their fingers burnt with the seven tunnel & would also have had a fight on with the LNWR
huh? this guy's voice is also featured in theirtube's commercial introductorily preceding it, no?!
I’ve been after the footage and details I’m this video since I was a kid some 40 odd years ago … where was all this info hiding? I would love to know where these images came from. Is there a book ?
There has been two books published on the Mersey railway. "The line beneath the liners" by John W Gahan. Countyvise & Avon Anglia, 1983 and the more accurate "The Mersey railway" By G W Parkin, 1965 & 1970. I also used the highly accurate "Fox on the Mersey railway and Rich on the Mersey railway lifts" by Francis Fox & William E Rich. The Institution of civil Engineer's 1886. I also used a collection of parliamentary acts from 1866 to 1920. These were the main sourses. As well as my own collection of photographs and postcards from over the years. The tunnel pictures were from a guy who works on the tracks
@@Merseywail thank you so much for all of that info. I will have a look and see if those books are available. You know, concerning those 2 abandoned headings, the one for the proposed dock extensions in Birkenhead and Liverpool I first became aware of them back sometime around 77 when I first started riding the trains with my “Merseyrover” ticket £3:10 and stamped with LMS for some reason. I bought them from Meols station station as Hamilton Square which was my later point of joining the system didn’t seem to see, them. This was before zone tickets. Anyway I used to crane my head against the window and shielding out the light would try and see anything interesting as we sped down the tunnels. I saw the one as we approached James street end first and later on the Birkenhead north one.
For years I asked staff drivers and no one could tell me anything. Most looked at me like I was stupid. “Why would anyone be interested in a dirty old black hole in a tunnel ?”.
It was only recently when I joined the FB group Merseyrail group that after many questions asked that a few folk with the answers helped me out but no one had any pictures.
About a year ago, I decided to revisit the issue and I rigged up my GoPro and strapped it to a very powerful LED torch and the plan was to point it through the Windows in the carriage and hopefullly illuminate the tunnel wall hoping that with a nice long view with a narrow angle, I reckoned I’d get some great footage that should look down the old headings. Unfortunately I didn’t realise that the Windows had been modified with brackets that barely allows them to open more than about 4 cms and it was impossible for me to position the camera. I hadn’t been on the trains for years and I seemed to remember that those top windows would incline to about 30 degrees and there would have been plenty of room.
… and then along came your good self sir! I am eternally grateful. Thankfully in the days if the internet these things are gradually surfacing. Similar areas of interest like the Woodside station, Tranmere and bidston civil defence bunkers and firstly, prior to the internet and thankfully down to the publishing of those fine books on the Wirral way and what the railway looked like. I’m now looking at finding details about the old, what I think, was the old RAF installation that used to be at the top of lever Causeway which I believe had a communications system and could have been chain home (less likely) but. Probably HF comms for coastal aircraft defending the Atlantic convoys … but that’s another story…
Oh yes and inside Bidston windmill too… I could go on … hahah
Anyway thanks again for all the gen !! please publish some more stuff soon hahah
@@Merseywail do you reckon the track workers have any more interesting photos? I’m keen to find out more about the underground lake with the boat on it… 😳😳
@@buffplums yes I used to get the same looks whenever I asked about the railway. The windows of the train were modified because passengers kept smashing their heads on the open windows. It's possible I might be able to find out about the RAF installation. Am in a group that has preserved buses at Hooton Park. The aircraft guy's might know, though they can be a difficult at times
@@buffplums I think the underground lake is a myth. Such a lake would have completely flooded the tunnel workings as happened to the GWR Severn tunnel. A boat may have been used in the drainage heading, but when the pumps are turned on full its quite possible to walk through them. As a Blue Peter presenter did in about 1986. The two published books regularly appear on Amazon or Ebay and I think there is a digital version of the 1886 book available for download somewhere. I have an original