Flow Testing a 2BBL Carter BBD Carb for Project MISSION IMPOSSIBLE + More!!!
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- Well it's still raining here in NC and since I can't work on Casper, @DavidVizard and myself decided to work on Project: MISSION IMPOSSIBLE ( 318 Mopar trying to make 318hp with mostly stock parts even down to the 2BBL Carter BBD carb!
we also talk about the crankshaft and rods in that they are more than capable of doing WAY more than we are asking from them!
David points out some tricks we plan on incorporating in the Stock Mopar shaft rocker arm setup that will net us a better rocker ratio which will translate into more power!!
Thanks to @JustMoparJoe for shipping us the Carb so we could get started!
Stay Tuned:
#mopar #318 #smallblock
Thanks for the shoutout, Andy! And for the tip on the paint stripper. For the people following along at home, that carb came off a 1969 4 door Plymouth satellite, 318. I’m not certain if it was original to the car. Y’all can get her flowing!
Anytime Brother! I can't wait to see what we can do with it..
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage can’t wait to see it on a Bridgeport getting the venturis hogged out.
That's a pretty choice 318 core!
Use a 500 CFM 2 bbl. That's what we did back in the early 60s. (for our Ford's) bores we're much bigger 😳 had to bore the manifold holes. Dropped 1.3 seconds in the quarter.
Came from 383 Edsels if I remember correctly. Looked identical... Never got caught by the tech crews😆😆😆
The only thing wrong with that suggestion is the Holley doesn't fit in with the build criteria of Mission Impossible. Also, the 500 CFM Holley will bolt right on a 360 2BBL manifold, but the base plate is way too big for the 273/318 baseplate bolt pattern and throttle diameter.
This is really interesting, far better than watching expensive parts getting bolted together. This is true engine building.
It's going to be interesting to say the least!
Andy
The absolute best horsepower adder to any engine is knowledge on how each component functions and David is the absolute best at knowledge. Awesome. Looking forward to every video.
Thanks Mike! Glad you enjoy it
Andy
Andy, I envy you! Just meeting and saying hello to DV would be a highlight in my 57 years on this planet. You sir, are working a great project with him and spending allot of time learning on your on right from him.
Just like Uncle Tony's projects (i.e. kitchen rebuild series and Gambler car), this never got finished and just left us all in limbo. No wonder you guys are buddies.
The big block BBD carb used on 1960's Mopars had 1.5" bores. Just knowing that increased bore size, DV could probably estimate increase in CFM over the 318 BBD. Different mounting holes I think, but IMO within spirit of the Mission Impossible build. Fascinating story line here, GOOD LUCK!
If I remember correctly, they can remove metal, but not add it.
I could be wrong.
@@outlawbillionairez9780 TECHINCALLY you CAN add metal...
Pretty sure that you would not want to.
@@outlawbillionairez9780 that's the idea, but I think Tony was doing some welding in the combustion chambers.
@@scotcoon1186 I didn't know about that. The spirit, not the rule, for the project is what a guy could do to get a HP/ C. I. without spending NASCAR money to achieve that goal. I find the whole thing pretty cool!
This is what YT content has the potential to be. We need more of this 🙂👍
i got one id let go off a 1970 383-b
This is the most interesting build on RUclips right now IMO. I'm eagerly following along to see all the little details that DV implements on it. That rocker arm info is great and really want to see how you get the most from it.
Thanks for the kind words! I'm glad you enjoy the build. I'm pretty stoked about the build..
Andy
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage Andy I bet you are interested to see what kind of tricks Mr. Vizard pulls out of the bag. Yall are doing great
Ah, Vizard the wizard! I have a 1981 1400cc classic Minivan, all Vizard spec, every component & settings A la 'How to Modify your Mini', and several folders full of his articles. Next time you speak to him, give him my regards from one long standing fan in England, His contributions to engine developments here & the US, indeed all over the world, have been enormous. Any Mini rally I go to I say 'Vizard spec', and they go 'Ah!'
This project will be fun to watch. David is a wealth of knowledge. Can't wait for the final results.
This is really fun, I guess I can count myself as one that gets excited to see a 2bbl flowed out. I can only imagine you'll be pulling the choke flap and removing the horn among other things. It's just damn interesting to see what the max potential would be on a common engine!
I was thinking the same thing! I m a ford guy but molars are cool too. Even better is an “oddball” like this.
Love it!
I always pull the choke on every carb I ever get.
If the engine is too worn out to run without a choke, its time to rebuild it.
@@hunnybunnysheavymetalmusic6542 If your engine runs good without a choke when its cold its to rich.
@@tomhutchins1046 I have my engine leaned out enough that I risk burning holes in my pistons.
Even at idle, its as lean as it can run without missing.
Clearly you do not understand engines.
@@hunnybunnysheavymetalmusic6542 35 years + as a profession. Engines need more fuel richer when cold then less when warm so if it runs good cold without a choke its to rich hot. You can learn something or stick your head up your -- and argue. I think i know which choice you will take LOL.
By decking the block and making the deck height shorter, the stock pushrods will effectively be "longer" and quite possibly offer the rocker geometery David has suggested with no modifications required to the valve train. IF you find the pushrods to be a touch too long, you can shim the rocker shafts upwards for desired lifter preload and rocker geometry. Ed Hamburger offers a shim kit, but you can easily make your own out of shim stock.
That's exactly right Ron, it's going to be interesting to see how we get it there...
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage I'm not questioning your building skills, but as you and David are fairly new to the world of Mopar engines, take note of the orientation of the oiling holes in the rocker shafts. It is possible to install them backwards, resulting in smoked rocker shafts, rocker arms, pushrod tips and valve stems. I've seen it way too many times. Good luck with this project. I am looking forward to following the progress.
@@mostlyoldparts Oh no, Ron I'm a Mopar man at heart! My first ride was a '70 Duster with a 340 that I built.. worse mistake ever was selling it... I still miss that car
ruclips.net/user/shortsao3UjdsJFSI?feature=share
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage AWESOMENESS!!!
I cannot wait for this project to develop. Nice to see both of you so enthusiastic about it.
A veritable Ball & Ball patent Carter carb.
They're actually not too bad those things. I always thought one could get two and put them on a 318 dual quad Offenhauser intake instead of 2x 4bbls.
They have great throttle response.
UT says lifter preload is very important for Mopar V8s to make them rev up. He's completely correct, so ordering pushrods or lash caps to get there is very important.
Alternatively, the Mopar 273 V8s had adjustable rockers with a solid lifter camshaft. Try finding some of those rocker arms and that'll solve your problems .
They are reasonably common those rockers and shouldn't cost too much since everyone wants roller rockers and won't spend money on old rocker arms but you need the OEM pushrods too since they're cupped at the adjustor end.
And another David Vizard in Australia, was a popular television comedian.
This is the BEST! Yes! Done & seen plenty of "put a big 4 barrel on it" type builds...But I really like getting more out of the good ole" 318 by keeping the 2 barrel and using good aftermarket cam! By the way, you don't have to put a four barrel on it to fix drivability issues-- how 'bout fixing what's really wrong first! I always tell my friends that the" truest test of your Mopar manhood" is to KEEP THE 2 BARREL/BBD! Because at car show people still will look into very well detailed engine compartment and will turn to you and say "I know where to get a 4 barrel & intake for ya!!" Until I built my share of gas hog 318s it didn't compute for me either.
Only thing I might miss is the roar when secondaries open... Big difference with 2 barrel is the feeling getting almost unbeatable V8 gas mileage one can achieve.
I can regularly approach / pass 20 mpg on freeway in my 1975 D100. I've always had a hard time getting over 13 mpg with 318 & 4 barrel (yes I know theoretically should be able to get great mileage with a 4 barrel, -yada yada-- but not me!) Very, VERY peppy throaty V8 and hundreds of miles range on one tank of gas?......... Yes please! Thank you! thank you. (a nod to Uncle Tony for leading me here!--This Mission Impossible 318 shxt is GOLD...). This is the TRUEST high performance: Maximum power and efficiency Very VERY interesting to me. Mopar Dave
I Truly Love this type of content! Rock On Fellows
Thanks for watching! I'm glad you enjoyed it
Andy
Back in the day it was common to use old spark plug washers to shim up the rocker shafts.
Great stuff gentlemen. DV's little tricks are going to be priceless. Looking forward to the carby mods. Regards Greg
Thanks Greg! It's definitely going to be fun..
Andy
Andy, If a carb is gummed up bad I put carb parts in a pot on the stove full of lemon juice and simmer it for as long as it takes. Have had good luck with doing that.
I will give that a try Thanks Nolan
Can't wait to see that. Q: "Hey, Andy.... whatcha cookin'?" Andy: "Oh, just some Carter lemonade." LOL
Wooof ,prolly wanna not do that in the house as the olady is gonna flip out from the residual gasoline smell.
I gotta sneak parts into the dishwasher for cleaning as it is 😁
I’m so glad you guys are doing work on a 318 mopar .. so many made and such a under estimated motor .. I can’t wait to see what Andy and David do to this motor .. it would be great once you’ve done the 2 barrel if you would put a 4 barrel on to see what it’s maximum would be with all that effort you put in as a comparison between the 2 barrel against the 4 barrel .. can’t wait .. CHEERS … 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Request- please run with a 650 4 barrel as well, just to compare.
The team will do a 4bbl 750 CFM comparison, just to see what they are leaving on the table..
Berrymans B12 is a good cleaner, but extremely flammable.
As for the BBD carburetor, I can't wait to see what you do to it. Those things were MASS produced with ZERO F's given towards performance. Casting flash, sharp edges, misalinged boosters and venturi all contribute to air restriction. Smoothing and straightening one of these babies, along with profiling the throttle shaft and blades, should produce respectable gains.
Also.... Just an FYI, Holley produced a 2BBL carb with the exact same base size and throttle diameter for use on air-cooled VW engines. Dubbed the "Bug Spray," it produced a whopping 350 CFM. Hopefully, you and David can achieve this (or even better) flow rate.
I need to find one!
@@mostlyoldparts Many 1970s-80s Chrysler 360, 383 and 400 2BBL engines (and possibly others) came with Holley 2210/2245 carburetors that were rated in the 350-390 CFM range for most models, the throttle blades are significantly larger than any Holley 2280 or Carter BBD design I've seen.
My '78 van with the 360 came from the factory with a 2245, as did my uncle's '79.
I've never seen a 2210 sized flange on anything bigger than a 318. Based on my experience (ain't sayin' much) the 360, 361, 383, 400 and 413 two barrel carbs were of the larger Stromberg 2BBL or Holley 2300 style.
@@mostlyoldparts the Holley bug spray is a copy of a stromburg. The carter is called a dune buggy deuce.
That 2 bbl flowed more than I was expecting also, as MoparJoe has mentioned, no doubt there will be some efforts to open it up some, remove the choke, clean up the throttle shaft etc. With all of DVs abilities to maximize and minimize the gains will no doubt add up. But yeah, that carb kinds stinks. Even the smallest of 4 bbls would be such a huge improvement. When this engine is done it will be interesting to see the induction vacuum at WOT, it will probably be a surprise.
With stockers, we… (I mean Others😂) would pull the power valve completely and leave a 3/8 washer under the back of the carb between gaskets. This would make the car run like crap unless wide open. But when wide open?? 😮😮
Our tech started hearing the whistling or notice a leak and bust the guy😂
I can't wait to see how much manifold vacuum it has at WOT!
Thanks David and Andy.
Very interesting conversation.
I appreciate your sharing.
Take care, Ed.
Thanks for watching Ed, we have a uphill battle for us... But I am excited to see what we can come up with
Andy
Im willing to bet that with what you know of holleys, you can get 290-300 cfm and better fuel flow/atomization out of that carter- I believe you can do it. Your pretty good with Holleys dude, way ahead of most.
As i have measured, chrysler rockers are 1.43 instead 1.5 ratio. (lift at the valve vs lift at the cam)... Just check it out. I have done on mexican pieces...
You are right! It's going to be interesting to see how this pans out..
I love seeing this type of videos: skill and talent over wallet!
One thing that is nice about the 318, if you can get air flow in/out of the engine, the bottom end will stay together.
Yeah we won't have to worry about that!
Thanks for watching
Andy
This is going to be great!! This is the "insider" stuff that so many people just never think about. These are all many of the reasons the "stocker" drag race guys cars go so fast, with so little, is that they have maximized everything they can, including suspension, etc.!
Zep carb cleaner still works well. Also, many carb bodies are zinc castings. High PH degreasers like Purple Power work very well on zinc.
Edit: Do not use high PH cleaners on aluminum!
I've heard a lot of good things about "Purple Power", I think I'll try some!
@@Anarchy-Is-Liberty If you soak aluminum in Purple Power too long it will turn black, otherwise it's good.
I quit using the Carter BBD on my '68 Fury's 318 and first tried a Motorcraft 2150 with an adapter plate which I liked a lot more until the 2150 did the same thing my BBD which was need some serious rebushing of the throttle shaft. I ended up with a Holley 2280 which bolts up the same as the BBD and found it a much more satisfying replacement. The 2280 was the factory carb for my '79 Dodge St. Regis's 318 and they were used on a lot of 318 powered trucks and vans into the early 80's. Easy to rebuild and from my experience, more reliable than the Carter. The Motorcraft carb actually woke up my 318 a noticeable bit on an engine that's never been apart. I probably would have kept it on the car if I could find someone who would put a throttle shaft bushing in a two barrel carb.
this is going to be fun.im a ford guy,i wish it was an old 390 instead,but still very fun. great stuff guys
🔔😎
There's some bad ass 318s in the world.
Even the old poly head 318 were good but technology then left something to be desired. Came with one AFB in 60.
Two AFB in 59. Built one for my new 64.
Looking forward to this, hope its well detailed , really looking forward to this.
I love this so much, looking forward to seeing the crankshaft mods. I love 318s. I have made 240rwhp and 355ft/lb with standard bore stock pistons 1974 318
Another thing we know forsure is Andy needs a new hat lol, one that reads MOPAR lol!!!! Love these episodes and glad to see that making Mopower is right around the corner lol
I might dust off my old ('95ish) Mopar Performance hat!
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage lol they were the best anyways in my honest opinion lol... I like the old colors myself really!!! It's all in love and fun giving you heck for wearing a Ford hat being that even Ford circles the problem for you and everyone to see lol!!!!
Credit where Credits due. It wasn't Luke's ThunderHead 289 who did it first, but a similar style of Auxiliary Air By pass like the Mixture Control Solenoid on the Feedback ELB BBD, Motorcraft 2150EG and VV 2700/ VV7200 carbs works at making a stock 2bbk carb flow more. With the stock carb, the Auxiliary Air By Pass adds up to 50 CFM more. Armed with the thining down of the throttle blade and the reprofiling of the air horn( 50 CFM extra at 1.5 "Hg on a 32/36 Weber and 350 Holley) you've got another 100 CFM at 1.5 " Hg. Thats 50 hp extra. 🥝✔️
Andy also, if you go to the harbor freight and get there small detail paint sprayer for less then $20 dollars you will then have pressurized carb cleaner better then anything anyone sales with using the thinner, been doing it for years now because the carb cleaners got to be pretty crappy.
As a old fan of 60's NHRA Junior Stocks, I'm going to enjoy this project.
Normally i would agree with testing carb !t 1.5 in of vacuum because normally sizing a carb to CI thats the norm. How ever in this case you are purposfully using a carb that is too small for the application. Which will create much more vacuum at WOT peak power I feel the vacuum will be considerably higher. Of course you would have to test it on an engine first to understand how much eng vac will be present at WOT. Im guessin somewhere closer to 300 cfm when its on the finished project. If carb modified possibly more.
Good thoughts here. Can you imagine the velocity through the venturi on this thing? Atomization shouldn't be an issue.
A suggestion when using paint stripper, for stripping paint, cleaning parts, etc..
Put the item being stripped in some sort of container that can be sealed, like a coffee can with a lid, as much of the solvent action is from the stripper vapor, and containing the vapor improves the chemical action.
I’ve got a large surplus ammo can that I use and leave the paint stripper in, and occasionally add more as needed.
I'd worry that it would remove the coating such as zinc dichromate or chrome or even the polish. What is your results in this regard using paint stripper?
Good luck with that. ANDY.....
We have enough airflow to support 260ish hp as is.. so it's going to be interesting
Opps, you answered my question on the seal to the plate.
yes this is awesome content!
Thanks Sean! I'm glad you like it..
Andy
As a stock car racer and engine builder, I have been around a lot of two barrels and respect them fully. Although not really involved in racing anymore, I do have a 500cfm 2 barrel Holley on my Foxbody Mustangs 347 stroker. Always becomes a topic of discussion when someone notices it lol
I love try'n to make something work thats not suposta...cant wait for the next video.......!
STOCK 273 ROCKER ARMS ARE ADJUSTABLE they were also cast ! THERE MIGHT BE SOME ADVANTAGE to be found in USING 273,SOLID LIFTERS AND A (SOLID CAM)?!
Back in the mid 80's I got back into stockcar racing and I ran a Chrysler Kit Car. The rules called for a small block so I ran a '69 -340, .030 over, flat top pistons and we had to use a 2 barrel carb, Holley 4412 per rules. To use this you had ro use an adapter plate which was 1" thick (rules). We used stock heads but they were machined for the use of roller rockers (1.50), and the cam that we used was a .520 lift.
I don't know what exactly you're build plans are but you can obtain horse power goals and performance with a 2 brl. carb.
Another issue which could be interesting, is measuring the travel of piston at 90 degrees far TDC in "normal position" versus "flipped" as UTG says... I have found 0.040 inches in change on a stroked vw engine! It changes the rate of the speed at differents degrees of crank turning
so excited to watch this build
cool project Andy and David V, Love the goal with a 2bbl.
Bey Andygood day brother. Super anxious for content on MISSIO IMPOSSIBLE. Many of us r, that silly lil 2 bbl hahaha, b cool to c ur results
One thing I would worry about is pushrod flex if you go that much above center. Setting the rockers up so they are that much on their nose creates quite a bit of stress on the push rods to the point of the benefits may be eaten up in stress and pushrod flex. BUT, as always, only one way to find out.
Thank you Andy for this series of videos. In the early seventies chrysler used a single plane two barrel on some of their 318s. If you would like to explore this option I can see if I have one laying around.
You got rain we got snow I Massachusetts
This is one of the most interesting builds I've followed in a long time! Do you and David have a rough idea of RPM's required to achieve our goal?
Once we get an idea of the total airflow from the carb to the heads that will tell us how much overlap is needed to make our power goals. From my experience it shouldn't require much rpm
Andy
Old school paint remover and the old school carb cleaner always smelled sorta the same to me. They had a few ingredients in common if I remember right.
Actually tried original Pine-Sol not long ago, came up on DIY carb cleaner search. Dumped a 3qt bottle in a 5 gallon pail with enough hot water to a cover Carter AVS, actually seemed to work pretty well. Not as good as the old stuff though and I hate the smell of Pine-Sol. Lol
I cant wait...im gonna follow closely....im starting to collect parts....i might not do exactly the same...but its gonna be 1 hell of a stock sm. block
OMG!!!!! THIS IS SO AWSUM! I think you will definitely get at least 300cfm out of that carb.
I hope you are right!
I've never thrown a rod in a Mopar, big or small block. I can't say the same about the other american manufacturer. Never threw a Ford rod either but know friend's that have.
Alright! Getting into the juicy bits now!
There is an Australian Comedian called David Vizard too, used to have the 'David Vizard Show' on TV .. Pretty funny too, you could use that as your party trick Dave lol
It’s so humid here in DFW its like Florida in August.
Great video guys. I know this is going to take a while but I'm psyched to see more. Thanks!
Thanks! It's going to take a while since it is a side project for us but I plan on showing the build piece by piece so people can see just how we are going about it
I've cleaned a few 2bbl Carter carbs haha. I got myself a sonic cleaner. Put some cleaning solution in and set the timer. Of course, if it's covered in gunk to begin with degreaser in a pail works. Great thing about the 2bbl is that you don't need a big pail or sonic cleaner, haha. Downside, it's still a 2bbl. I can't wait to see the tricks you fellas come up with so I can try them out on my 318-3.
Love the build. I want to see the difference going from the bb2 to a different carburetor. I have found the Carter bb2 works best in the trash can. Probably what gave the 318 the bad reparation it didn't deserve.
This is very Interesting..
Also I Drive this Combo to work and actually Everywhere...
Uncle sent me here. Since I have a couple of two bbl 318 engines I'm very interested in these efforts.
Nice! This is the kinda stuff I like
When you build the heads out use 1.84" or 1.88" intake valves not sure what model heads you have but the early quench heads X or J are better than the cop car heads because the cop car heads the chamber kills the compression ratio. And if you get a pair of J heads they will accept 2.02" intake valves
These are just 71 318 heads..
Thanks for watching
Andy
I use gasoline then some brake clean it seems to work wonders on gunk
I am looking forward to this project still wish it was a 360 but like you said it translates. I say this with knowing the skill David is putting into this build, this carburetor and the modifications like the LS valves is disappointing. Uncle Tony was fixin a budget garage build sleeper 318 but let’s be real here how much would it cost for David to modify a customer’s two barrel intake and all the other modifications this engine is getting? If this was easy Tony would do it but he expects us to do what you two are doing in the machine shop in our garage. after his speech about the junkyard jet guys and Mopar Al spending money that they didn’t need to. He does this It would be cheaper to find a 318 that had a four barrel carburetor. Plenty of old 318 trucks with four barrel carburetors. don’t take the royal reds and chuck the crab seasonings and tell me you’re having a boil.
This video is awesome, really enjoying the information you guys are providing.
Thanks DH
One other thing when your flowing the 2bl make a carboard divider contoured to the shape of the area between the tops of the venturis. check the flow with and without the divider you may get a surprise. also try a 1" spacer with the exact same bore size of the carb see what that does for flow?
Cool project!! You guys will learn a ton by doing this. I be watching closely.
I would love to see what DV could do with an 80s/90s peugeot xu9j4 engine. Peugeot seriously neutered them from factory
Love this series
Thanks!
LOVE the way you guys think...so far out side the box it's getting out of sight...seems I'm not the only engine builder with OCD. Really looking forward to seeing what can be done when you chase the one hundred and first percent .
“We’re going to be hard pressed to make our 300 hp goal with the restrictions we’ve placed on ourselves.”
Ends up making 450 hp with the two barrel.
I did not know they were that much bigger. The rods are crazy big. I really can’t wait to see this. I’m going nuts trying to see when next one is coming. Really good job. Will be funny! Go to the motor shop and tell them watch DV and Andy and make my parts like that! Lol this will be fun to see it run.
Maybe DDavidVizard.This style build was on my imagination.Gearhead glory.Low rpm motor for the street which to me with that carb is like hitting the gas half way.Light springs maybe light valve lose some r.mass.polished combustion chambers and piston dome no sharp edges.and maybe a gear drive.Manual trans or auto but weigh 3180 lbs or lighter with driver and full tank that is plumbed for nitrous for those cars that want some.Looking forward to seeing that crank turn down on the counter balancers.Rev limiter like 5500.
What about moving the pushrod closer to the center of the rocker shaft? Increase the rocker ratio and should help with the geometry you want.
Dave and Andy if you weld on the rockers they will crack I've done so I know .if that's what your thinking weld and grind it they crack.peace...
No we aren't planning on welding on the rockers, there are many things we can do to increase the rocker ratio
Andy
I hope and would like you to test a larger carb like the Holley 350 and 500 two bbl carbs before you switched to the four barrel
And maybe Holley 650 two bbl those thing scream. Ran it on my 327/350hp in the mid 70's in a Chevy2. Still have the old 650. 283/2bl LOL.
It's for sure going to be a challenge! Those 2 bbl's are small.I'm thinking it will be tough getting it to flow even 300 cfm.
This is good stuff! Cool step back to how you hot rod with no aftermarket. I've hot rodded all kinds cars that have no support from the aftermarket. Box? what box? we don't need no stinking box! Keep On!
Looking forward to this build. I'm interested in the final price tag for this build. What does it cost to offset grind a crank vs a simple undercut, regrinding a camshaft vs off the shelf?....Also please keep tabs on your labour hours modifying the parts-time is money. Thank you.
On a 318 the pistons are typically around .070" in the hole.. so if we can offset gring the crank we can get close to a zero deck maybe even a positive deck height without having to take a major cut off of the block!
If the crank needs the rod ends resurfaced smaller to clean them up, that means you can NOT offset grind them for more stroke and compression. Well, you have less material to work with anyway.
Yeah it’s gonna be interesting how this mission impossible plays out. Sorry to hear you’re still having rain problems there and like I said in my last post we’re still having rain problems here in SoCal. Anyway, Andy, I wanted to let you know that on your last video, the comment I made someone answered impersonating you just to let you know.
I would like to see you do something on the Mopar 239 v6…I put about 240,000 miles on a magnum version…As I understand, it’s basically an LA motor but there is not a lot of aftermarket stuff for it…I think one in an A body would be a nice setup.
Ok i have read David's books on porting heads great source of info. A couple of errors here one lighter anything reciprocating does not increase HP. It increases potential acceleration by lightening the load on the power you are making . You can do back to back tests and a dyno will prove that.
Second playing with rocker geometry as in destroying it to get a little more lift and quicker valve action is probably not a good idea. The extra lift will gain nothing on a head that does not flow at higher lifts. All you will gain is a small increase in valve acceleration. Also lets say you add longer pushrods to make the valve ride closer to the tip of the rocker. You are also raising the pushrod side higher up in the arc were you are not getting as many degree's of rotation per inches of cam lift so you basically destroyed the durability of the valve train to get nothing in return. If anything you want a slightly shorter pushrod when using a higher lift cam to maintain decent geometry
Tom, I will try to answer your questions
1 about the lighter rotating assembly making more power it will aid in a few ways first like you said it will increase the acceleration rate BUT the lighter pistons will have less friction area on the skirts which will cut parasitic loss, the lighter crank will aid by reducing windage in the engine and these things combined will give a power increase!
The rocker geometry of the stock type rocker isn't going to be that big of a deal at the lifts we are going to use.. we can alter things such as rocker shaft height and valve tip height to get the results we want and still maintain a proper geometry!
By cutting the heads and decking the block that will effectively make the stock pushrods longer all of this will be covered during the build process!
Thanks for watching
And for Posting
Andy
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage Interesting ok knife edging crank shafts is so 80's lol imagine the counter weights spinning at oh 6000 rpm basically forming a windage disk oil is not getting in the empty areas. The only way to effect it is to make the entire counter weight more narrow or an effective smaller diameter. but then balancing becomes an issue. Heavy metal has been used. Rounding the front edges as described in the video actually makes windage worse. Callies did extensive testing on this in the 90's. Yes there are wild looking cranks out there with counter weights that look like pendulums but that is to make them as light as possible total weight for short track acceleration as in less counter weight further out has the same effect for balance as more closer. But less farther out turns out to be a much weaker crank in the throw area (main to rod journal overlap.) also increases windage drag and resistance to acceleration. Its a gimmick. Look carefully at the latest cranks available its a large diameter narrow counterweight with min rounding basically 1/2 a disk. Another version is a smaller diameter wider counter weight to turn the whole crank into a dowel when spinning at high rpm. This can work on shorter stroke engines
PISTONS Yes a slipper skirt piston used since the 60's does have less drag than a 216 Chevy 6 barrel stile piston from the 50's LOL. On a slipper skirt piston in normal running very little area of the skirt actually touches the cylinder wall and in theory there is an oil film between them. The shorter skirts are used for weight reduction and counter weight clearance. But at times with shorter skirts you can be giving up ring seal (Piston rock) and that will kill power. Very narrow rings can cut drag but in tests the gain is minimal and best left to the high end engines were every little bit counts. Low tension oil rings also help a little but your taking a chance because oil in the cylinder = detonation = boom. There are people that only replace the top compression ring during a freshen up but again that's for people that can afford to take the chance.
Reducing reciprocating weight does nothing for HP . HP is TQ x RPM divided by 5252. Reduction reciprocating weigh is the same effect as using a lighter wheel and tire or flywheel ect. It will improve acceleration not increase HP. Total crank weight as in putting it on a scale can be very misleading. ( See comments on pendulum style cranks) The effect it has on acceleration depends greatly on how far out the mass is on the diameter of the circle of the crank viewed from the end. Ask Mr Vizard about that Im sure he will understand. If you have a smaller and a larger diameter flywheel that weigh the same on a scale the smaller one will take less power to accelerate.
Rockers
Rocker ratios are not consistent during travel in how they effect valve lift. And you have to consider BOTH ends of the rocker as per what degree of travel. They are actually traveling in a partial circle around the center pivot.
Im assuming you are using a higher lift cam this will get you the effect your looking for with stock geometry it will run the valve further out on the rocker at full lift. At best fudging geometry will get you the max ratio at a different time of the valve lift. Bad rocker geometry can also FLATTEN A CAM. Bend push rods ect.
You have some time to burn? Assemble your engine put a degree wheel on it cycle it and measure the valve lift at different degrees document it. Now change the geometry measure again. repeat.
You will see what I'm saying all your doing is screwing up the geometry of the valve train.
If your just going for a number on an engine dyno . Water brake or eddy current reducing reciprocating weight will do nothing to the numbers. Unstable valve train will also really hurt the HP. Leak down tests are great for checking ring seal but they wont tell you seal at higher RPM's . I have had engines on the dyno that made really god power then it goes away like 20% loss. They still sound the same crisp ect. Even leak down the same. It turns out fresh rings and the power is back. Concentrate on stable pistons and ring pack. Unstable valve train that you really cant here engine sounds good can also really hurt power.
I really find Mr Vizards theory's on port design interesting. Have you considered coatings? Run a carefully fitted crank scraper. make sure the timing is stable as in chain flapping at rpm. Details make power not tricky sounding longer pushrods.
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage Here's another one aviad did extensive testing of wet sump systems windows in the pan ect. They came to the conclusion wet sumps don't lube with oil they lube with foam. If you want to make a bigger number on the dyno just over carburate it. Wont be a good driver but usually makes a bigger number
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage The book i mentioned that David wrote is about 30 years old at least and really is not as good for modern race heads with raised ports and deep valve bowels. But it is PERFECT for those old 318 heads what he wrote really works on those old heads. biased and swirl is nothing new if you look at some old 65 289 heads there is a crude attempt from the factory at biased and swirl. David's book just made it more clear and took it to another level. A customer brought a set of CNC ported by Roush 5.0 gt40P heads in A few years ago and either they read the book or came to the same conclusions as David because they were beautifully biased and done. They made really good power for what they were.
That and the right Cam design probably a custom design taking advantage of the bigger lifter is were you will make power. Not screwed up voodoo valve train geometry.
Heck you have the man that wrote the book right there use it.
I'm very interested in what you guys are doing I have a 1968 ford 302 that I put a 4bbl intake and stock in 1990 ford 5.0 mustang headers and 2 inch duel exhaust system and wondering what I could get out of mine
great build this will show all the little angles a guy needs, to gain an edge i use more an more of these methods and they work
Sorry for the high quantity of my responses and inquiries, Andy, but this build really intrigues me. As for the intake manifold, are you and David considering an Extrude Hone process, or will all modifications be done in house? I know Dave Dudek and other FAST engine builders have had incredible luck with the Extrude Hone mods. Also.... Will this engine utilize factory exhaust manifolds, or will it be using headers?
We will do everything in house to illustrate what needs to be done.. Extrude hone is awesome but not really in the right spirit of this build
Thanks for the questions Ron!
Andy
I’ve been wrong before. Stock mopar rockers. Cam 216-224 duration @50 mean little 318.
It’s interesting to hear the strengths of the Mopar compared to brands C & F, but I’m really looking forward to what you identify as shortcomings, and how you plan to manage them.
Besides perhaps performance the 318 has no shortcomings it is by far the toughest longest lasting american v8 made. It would be really cool to see David do a typical build on one just put in high compression pistons, port the heads and do a proper cam with a good intake and long tube headers and I bet he could get real close to 450hp on pump gas.
I can't wait to see / hear more guys! Take care.
wonder if this will be able to run on pump gas.