‘Would That Be Okay?’: Amy Coney Barrett Raises Concern About College Admissions Essays On Race
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- On Monday, The Supreme Court heard oral arguments in Students for Fair Admissions, Inc. v. President and Fellows of Harvard College.
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I imagine any applicant that wrote about being proud to be white would be immediately tossed.
And reported to the FBI, SPLC, ADL, NAACP, and the DOJ.
Yes, we would be accused of celebrating our white privilege, wouldn’t we?
This is how you know it is all a pile of garbage when some race is judged differently than others purely because of what race they are.
Funny how that works.
That was my first thought.
This pretty sums up the problem of evaluating a student other than on merit: colleges can always hide their real intentions by picking the essays they like.
yup
Or the ones they don’t like due to bias
Colleges that take federal assistance give classroom teachers say so with final semester grades . This way they can give D & F students A’s & B’s. The goal in doing this is to DISCOURAGE ACHIEVERS. LBJ started this when he said I’ll have blacks voting democrat for 200 yrs. That’s affirmative action my fellow citizens.
True! Multi-point evaluations provide plenty of cover for cultural activists.
Yes, if not struck on equal protection gound based on use of race, it should be struck on due process grounds of vagueness and/or overly suseptible to arbitrary enforcement with admissions evaluators having unfettered discretion.
Thomas Sowell said the role of the judges is best kept to uphold the constitution, and NOT to play god and decide what’s fair and what’s not. KBJ clearly tries to play god while ACB is trying to uphold our constitution and let the common people decide for themselves what justice and fairness is.
LOVE THAT DUDE...
Critical race theory suggests getting rid of objectivity and neutrality in the justice system
As a black Moderate, i agree. Thurgood Marshall was the 1st black Supreme Court Judge way before afirmative action. Bill Cosby. Sidney Poitier etc was also successful.prior. We dont need Government to step in and validate us. We are free. No longer slaves. Work hard, be smart, kind to.others and we will always be accepted anywhere regardless of race.
Nicely put.
I'm not sure I would use Cosby as your example. You might want to Google that to see what happened there.
Good God how many times do we have to fix the same freaking problems over and over. 250 years of blah blah blah and everything is still a maybe!. Or an if, or with the exception of, or I found a way to read that differently so let's re-decide the whole damn thing over again for the fifth time. So 250 years from now will be redeciding this for the 73rd time!?.
This should have been decided with the 14th amendment's equal protection clause. Preferential treatment based on race is unconstitutional.
So entrance for college education has nothing to do with best qualification but only to overcoming of hardship or desire to fulfill family dreams. How sad. Better to self educate and learn reason, common sense and critical thinking.
That is why Harvard is a joke I actually go to a college that accepted me because of my academics, and it’s a Christian college of course 😉
I think Harvard is such a joke also. They’ve lost all credibility of being a great school in the past 10 years.
Hillsdale? That school is harder to get accepted in than Harvard or Yale..
Harvard is a university not a college. There is an academic difference. I believe colleges can give diplomas in AA associates degree or BA/s Bachelor of Arts/ science but Universities can give diplomas in Masters and doctorate PhD. There is a huge difference in the academic rigor separating those institutions which is why there are colleges and universities.
@@penniroyal4398 obviously
You’re very accomplished for a wolf
So what if a college wanted to limit attendance to only white conservatives? Would race based admissions be acceptable for them? You can't have it both ways. Allow discrimination or don't.
Is there a college that wants to limit attendance to only white conservatives? I haven't heard anyone that said they wanted one either. Admission to college should be based solely on the merit of the applicant; Race, sex, political affiliation and anything else should be ignored.
There are black only colleges all across this nation.
@Cass Taylor oh, yeah that would make sense. Thanks for letting me know the proper context.
So if a white student writes an essay about white pride and a black student writes an essay about black pride, which one do you think is getting into college? 🤔🤣
Whoever essay is the most compelling
@Eric Lynch so you can’t submit essays now ?
@@9doggie12 Oh I forgot to mention, they're both applying at an HBCU. 🤣
exactly.. black pride is noble but white pride is the KKK...
(in my opinion no one should feel embarrassed about their race, but no one should feel superior because of it either... honestly race has nothing to do with you, you were born into it.. just like someone is born into money or poverty, the big city or the 3rd world. it should be all about what you did with the cards you were dealt.. did you cry about it.. did you strive to rise from difficult circumstances?)
@@jennybfoxxy you do relize there are HBCU’s with white students right ?
Colleges or companies cannot fix the ills of society. This is a societal issue that can only be fixed when children are taught personal responsibility, hard work & integrity across cultural lines.
Jim,
They have the authority of good intentions if they want to cure societal ills. But they don’t want to do that.
They want to fundamentally change the system to a new one. If they state that, then they lose the ability to claim our intentions were noble.
Not for mass manipulation
Skin pigmentation is an incidental characteristic, like eye or hair color. Furthermore, the dividing lines of culture are permeable and people cross those lines daily. If the reason for university study is to understand the world around us, why would physical characteristics, or my particular heritage, have any bearing on college admission? The question is simply this: Is that student prepared to undertake the courses of study?
So "cultural appropriation" is not a thing? I just want to hear someone else say it.
And I alsway say, how funny it is that the pigmentation is only temporary - my best example is that the Indo-Europeans are such closely related group that they still have the same language group, yet some are white (those who moved to Europe) and others completely black (those who moved to India millenia ago). Then one of those black Indo-European tribes decided to move gradually to Europe (we call them Gypsies), they came to Europe some six hindred years ago, they are still somewhat darker then whites, but a white European working outside is isually darker than a Gypsy working in the office. Just few hundred years and the skin color is back to where it fits according to a location the person lives! From my point of view, it's petty and ridiculous how some people can hate each other just because of the skin color. So ridiculous because any sane person must be able to see that the hatred is artificially created by the media, who are doing the woke groups bidding. Before Obama was elected, I kept my fingers for his election (I couldn't vote as I am non-US person and non-citizen, living in Europe), because I thought he would be the final proof that the racism was dead in the US. But instead, he weaponized the government, nurtured the deep state, he was an instrument of the dark forces in the background, who are trying to destroy the USA.
We have allowed this to go on for too long. Decades long.
It’s stupid to take pride in things that aren’t an accomplishment. I didn’t even choose to be born, let alone what race, sex, nation I’d be born in. I might as well be proud of my back hair. 🥴
Well put! 👍
I'm EXTREMELY proud of my back hair, and my chest hair, and my brow hair, and my beard hair, and my arm hair, and my leg hair, and me arse hair.
Just wish it would grow back in at my bald spot.
But I'm so damn proud of ALL my hair, but it never got me into college.
I love your analysis of this. 😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣
Back Hair Matters
@@tar170 Haha 😄 👍
It's called race baiting. Get into school on your own merits. What a freaking concept.
The average American is mixed with so many races how can we still be here?
Government intervention with good intentions - gets us every time, that's assuming you're talking about affirmative action.
If you're talking about the race stuff we're not really that bad as a nation. It's like anything else in the world it's blown up and dramatized to make money
Is this guy delusional? If an applicant wrote about their racial pride and heritage, how could you not come away with the fact the applicant is Hispanic, Panamanian, or …? You can’t. To say it does not affect the racial aspect is ludicrous.
That’s not what he said. He said you can’t credit them for being a minority if they write about it. You can only credit them for the essay itswlfn
@@9doggie12 listen to the question posed by Justice Barrett
@@Dk-qf8dd he is clueless . Pride fKn with him .
You can tell Harvard knows they are SCREWED
This should all extend to Job interviews/applications as well.
Blind admissions tests or open enrollment are the only fair admission policies.
What is wrong with having open enrollment and weeding out courses? Where is it written that everyone who begins at a university has to succeed? Imagine what it would mean to get a degree from an elite university in which only the top, say, 1% who enter can meet the standards to finish a degree.
it would mean that only kids of politicians amd ultra wealthy end up in that 1%, that's an obvious answer. It's the same reason as to why purely meritocratic solution won't even be considered as it would bar many of those kids from getting an Ivy degree
unfortunately, affirmative action removed the blindfold of lady justice
I think this would lead to more un or undereducated people with massive debt and richer schools. Complicated topic, but the days of people having to go to the big city and beg those elites in the ivory towers to kindly bestow their knowledge is over. With the internet, anyone with the ability can learn anything. Trouble is how do professional schools or businesses qualitate and quantify that knowledge without the seal of approval ( i.e degree) from a college/university. ( and with grade inflation from elite schools what is that even worth?) it's all a scam.
The 99% will likely "bad mouth" the university even take legal action. If there is less demand for the school because of extremely high standards it cannot easily raise fees which in turns adversely affects its revenue.
@Cass Taylor You make an interesting point. You do need difficulty for the sake of difficulty if you want to choose winners of a fair competition. Whether that should be the goal is another question.
I want a refund
From Affirmimative action to mutual exclusion and cancellation.
How about eliminating any references to race , religion, gender or social status to the selection process and base it solely on academic aptitude
Because the professors out there do not want to teach students that are actually smarter and better educated than they are
@@Poetmurf You might be right lol
Why don’t they just take the highest academic scores? End of story.
I remember when Amy Coney Barrett was confirmed a girl in my Geometry class got up and literally screamed in our classroom the next day at school.
That is absolutely fantastic! 😂
LoL the fragility
Where is she being treated these days?
@@ttaylor758 Was gonna say something but it would not have topped this. Nice one, Dan. XD
lol
She brings up good points that should be considered deeply.
She need to be in kitchen and clean the floor
You’re right about that
Best point made by this Attorney. They can look at an individual who can bring that up in trying to enter. If that's what they choose to use as their best case for entrance then so be it and based on how they present that is most important. Just being proud of your ethnicity is not enough. Therefore, deciding to make things harder for one group of people than another merely based on ethnicity for which they have no control is racist. It's not "institutionalized racism" it's not a "dog whistle". It is racist. Period.
Amy Coney is pretty sly here, she is asking the question we're all thinking without actually asking it.
Her real question is what not require an essay on "diversity".
She's very intelligent and shrewd
The questions from Justice ACB are concerning to me. Hopefully she will not eventually side with Harvard to discriminate against “privileged” Asians.
Concerned me as well
I think ACB was asking the question to indirectly expose the flaws in KBJ’s line of thinking
I listened to about 75% of the hearing and I am under the assertion that all of the judges aside from KBJ (who to my knowledge is recusing herself from the final vote due to past connections with Harvard) are leaning towards overturning race-based admissions policy/ affirmative action.
@@logicking3765 A blind and deaf gerbil could do that with little effort.
@@logicking3765 yeah, to reiterate, the question was how does racial pride differ from say someone being proud of their music? Why is it that one holds more weight than the other?
its all about money at this college,more the family has , the faster your in?
It’s subsidized they don’t care if your fam has money they get paid anyway by the government if u default on your student loans.
Every justice who attended Harvard should recuse themself from this case.
Then this is going to be a straight 3-1 lol.
That's ridiculous. Where's the conflict of interest here. What involvement do they have with Harvard admissions? They attended Harvard, so what?
Just like we can switch man and woman anytime we should also be able to switch colors. Those who want special treatment put black and if university questions you sue them. You get to feel whatever color you want. Just like ubare now allowed to feel whatever gender you want
Yes, I would love it!
If you have equally qualified students and limited slots, a lottery is the only way.
Now there's a rule to be politicized and relaxed to create division .
Isn't it an interesting conundrum - we know instinctively that merit is the only fair metric, but we keep dancing around it because we just refuse to accept that merit alone will not result in a racial disparity that is craved by the social justice warriors. There is no way to artificially lift a demographic beyond its natural anthropological hierarchy without discriminating against those above. That is the simple fact. So, we soldier on, attempting to justify the discrimination into a never-ending future, never answering the fundamental question - how long will it take before merit can be the sole metric? Three more generations? Four? How many?
The question is… why the hell are they going to college? To put themselves $100,000 + into debt to start out their adult lives?
Amy is beautiful 😍
Would a white student writing about how proud they are to be white, and how integral being white is to their culture, would they be more or less likely to be admitted?
Skin color isn’t a sports jersey. People aren’t hard-locked to stereotypes.
She "makes up" for the recent Court appoinment of another "person" who cannot say if she is a woman.
An admission essay on race is not very smart. Why? Because it shows the fixation of the admission committee on race. A "better" topic is "diversity". An applicant would know the he/she takes a big risk not agreeing to diversity if the school clearly shows it favors it. The schhol can then point out that most applicants support diversity..
I'm very proud of my European heritage (British ancestry) and the amazing things that an Empire of such a small island nation achieved around the world. I'd love to submit this as my admission essay. I wonder how it would be received?
There’s no such thing as hispanic or Native American mixed race writing their failure not being black enough
Requiring an essay for admissio is actually useless because there is no proof the applicant actually wrote it.
Teach the gifted don't waste it on the hopeless. It is a competitive real world.
Lots to be said for the difference between pride and false pride.
ALL COLLEGES SHOULD TAKE IN CONSIDERATION THE DEMOGRAPHICS OF THE COUNTRY, ALL BY PERCENTAGES SHOULD ALL CULTURES BE ADMITTED,
Be proud of your accomplishments nothing else
She's definitely. Not Hispanics if she's mentioning quinceenera, or a Iain if mentioning the Chinese new year. In a essay. There's no way to tell the race if an essay writer. Lol
What if a white student thinks they have black pride? Nkechi Amare Diallo
They need to write something unique and individual...thankyou yes 👍
From if you see something, say something...to ya can't say hardly anything at all.
Might as well just make all colleges identical, and let anyone who wants to take classes do so. That would erase all this nonsense.
God have mercy on us
I want to see Harvard sued into oblivion.
What if the person was proud to be white?
What a big fat lie.
Schools colleges should never see color but everyone a human who's soul belongs to GOD
Could a white student write an essay about how proud he is to be white? How would that be received?
Badly. He will likely be branded a "white supremacist".
Why no diversity in sports
Color has nothing to do with the ability to learn but the atmosphere and opportunities and access to resources that facilitate success. The latter is what affirmative action was meant to achieve. But admitting student based on race or ethnicity alone leads to failure if the other aforemention needs aren't met. If education is not supported in the home, if the home life is chaotic, if the neighborhood schools are bad the student fails. We need mentoring programs, safe after school places for kids to study,and resources to teach tech skills that many schools lack. These things are more important than laws. And let's take a second look at skilled jobs that earn good money that don't require college but trade schools or apprenticeships. I spent six years in college but my cousin's husband studied to be a plumber and is rolling in money with his own business. Lol!
Your comment makes you seem dumb. But then again, I may be wrong.
@@tedkeenan3341 Try reading what I said. My family were civil rights activists and no laws helps if education is not set as a goal, without a strong family, and without strong morals as a base in a child's life. Don't pretend otherwise. Stop being tone deaf. Listen before you comment.
Genuine question! The lawyer admits that race can’t be used as a criteria in the admission!
So…. Lie
shes not doin any for #TRUMP hyst. . .
That exchange confirms the view that Judges should stay out of AA, and it should be up to each State to establish admission procedures for State Colleges. Private Schools should be free to admit whomever they want with the following caveat: In our 21st century wifi high speed society, any Institution -private or public- practicing outright discrimination or racism will be called out publicly.
Don’t be so confident, the narrative and violence has largely been one sided and in fact “minority” groups are hurt when they’re accepted and fail out or struggle to succeed while those with loads of money and donations or parents as alumni get a ride straight to the top
I think the issue is about a federal law.
I agree..it should be based on constitutional law though..
@@JSomerled I would agree, however title 6 (I think) is a federal law.
@@magnasquids7864 Title 6 falls under the civil rights act of 1964 I believe. It supports the US Constitution on Equal Rights,not equity,which has been found unconstitutional in the California Supreme Court.
This is why college is a joke
Mr Satan 😢🎉🎉eeee
Race baiting
government should simply not be involved in the admissions process. let them pick their applicants on the criteria they decide upon. harvard is the most prestigious school not in the United states but worldwide. They churn out the most combined nobel prize laureates, ceos, founders, patent innovators.
Does any other country besides the US practice affirmative action?
Yes
There are ongoing concerns and issues that should be addressed throughout both the Biden and Trump administrations. Russia play a role on both sides of the isle.
Russia Russia Russia! It’s Ukraine! The USA forcibly performed a coo in Ukraine in 2014. The Obama admin had more wars than any other and bombed more than any other. Biden is not in charge it’s Obama, the not so secret shadow gov that never stopped operating
HOW ABOUT STUDENTS WHO PAY
SOMEONE TO WRITE ESSAY FOR COLLEGE
ENTRANCE
Right. That is why essays are useless.
I know a girl who has a company doing just
That..she writes hundreds of papers so
Students can get in..according to her
Most of them can hardly spell
Their english is so bad they can "t write
A paper ...isn't this against the law
CHARTER OAK IS HER COMPANY
NOW IN SALEM OREGON..