How Gossip & Slander Poison the Congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses
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- Опубликовано: 4 ноя 2024
- The culture of Jehovah's Witnesses is filled with pitfalls. When your schedule every week includes another meeting in a windowless building where you listen to the same messages year after year, your mind begins to wander... and it usually wanders into everyone else's business. Despite the Bible's command to shun gossipers and those that slander, the body of elders will do nothing to stop the runaway mouths and imaginations of those in their congregation. Many times, the elders and their wives are top contributors.
Let's take a look at the damage and hypocrisy caused by the 'dynamic duo' of gossip & slander!
#jehovahswitness #exjw #watchtower #governingbody
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The elders are the WORSE gossips because they feel authorized to tell any other elder instead of only ones assigned to a case.
And they write it down and send it to Watchtower. And of course the circuit overseer will know. So if you committed a serious sin, basically everyone knows. But you cannot sue as your name was not publicly mentioned.
YES..... and if the publisher ever knew how much they share everything...... horrified
@@b1crusade384 100%
🎼🎶We're Jehovah's gossipers.
we gossip with fearlessness,
ours is the goss of true gossipy,
goss gossipy, gossipy!
🎶🎼
Now I have that song in my head LOL!
@@survivingparadisepodcast This version? or the old light version...?
@@PL-tj5sd LOL.....I can't keep up!!!
I recall a friend of mine who brought his girl friend to the congregation for the first time who was not a JW. When I got home my mother and her female friend slandered and gossiped about her so much. I could not stand it anymore an told them they should not be talking about someone like that they did not even know. My mother did not feel any remorse she just started having a go at me.
And then JWs are mystified why people don't want to become JWs. A visitor gets torn to shreds on their very first visit to a KH, and then witnesses are befuddles as to why that person didn't want to join the group. Let's get Perry Mason on the case...
And isn't it ironic!?! They should be trying with all their power to save his girlfriend....but nope, they gossip about her instead....then knock on her door on Saturday
You don't even realize how bad it is until you step away from it.
That's true on every level. Looking back in from the outside makes me shake my head everyday that I was ever a part of this organization. It's the very definition of _Bizzaro World_
SO true.... then you realize how much of an impact it has had on you :(
@adamantiumbullet9215 , or the Matrix. The elders are agent Smith. Egads! The interrogation room with the 3 agents & Mr. Anderson seems eerily familiar!
@@davidreda1211
_"Do hear that, Mr. Anderson? That is the sound of inevitability."_
I remember as a kid hearing about the elder's meetings on the way home. It was awful. I remember being 8 or 9 and repeating something I had heard from my father and he was livid with me. It was my fault as a young child for repeating it, not his betrayal of confidential matters. I also remember decades ago suicide victims families were treated without mercy. The gossip would be terrible and the family was told their family member did not have the hope of the resurrection and they reproached God for not valuing their life. I can tell so many stories but unfortunately they might reveal who I am. Being a victim of gossip, slander and injustice was part of our leaving. All these years I was told the KH was a place of refreshment and I know now why I never felt that. You are so right the culture of JW's not having lives fuels gossip and slander.
My god, I'm SO sorry you were exposed to elder crap as a little person!!! Your father should be ashamed of himself for getting angry at you. On suicide: it has long been a highly controversial and cruel subject in JW's!!
Gossip is condemned in the bible.(Proverbs 20:19) A slanderer goes about revealing confidential talk; Do not associate with one who loves to gossip. Gossip can lead to slander, becoming disastrous to the slanderer. The wisdom of the words at Ecclesiastes 10:12-14 is very evident: “The lips of the stupid one swallow him up. The start of the words of his mouth is foolishness, and the end afterward of his mouth is calamitous madness. And the foolish one speaks many words.” Slander can be grounds for removal and a lawsuit.
Yes, at one time the JW organization felt that if a member committed suicide there was no forgiveness as they could not have appreciated life. Mental illness was not fully understood by the medical world or by the brothers who are not medical professionals. Since those days the JW organization has learned from the medical community that the mental illness is responsible for the suicide not the individual. JWs have a different perspective on death in that the true God is a God of the living not of the dead. To Him even though a person dies he is still alive as God has the power to bring them back to life. People fear death because they do not believe in God's ability to do what he says he will do.
@@ronhansen8471 why didn't an organization that claims to be guided by god himself not understand mental illness?
Children of elders should never be privy to confidential matters. Shame on your father for being disloyal to the person/ people/ situation. I hope he was stood down
@@karenlsaunders Children of elders and especially elders wives are privy to judicial meetings. Stood down for what? Doing what a majority of the elders do? Elders rarely turn on their own. They all have too much dirt on each other. Confidential matters don't stay confidential, people's lives are ruined because of the gossip that inevitably happens.
Great video once again!! Watch the videos at the conventions. There they reveal ( not realizing what they are really doing) how miserable many are, jealous, envious, vindictive, miserable, unhappy, sad, dejected , depressed and sorrowful. But don’t forget: THEY ARE THE HAPPIEST PEOPLE ON EARTH!!!
Oh the irony.... showing how miserable they all are! Thank you beauty!!
The emotions "miserableness, jealousy, envy, vindictiveness, being miserable, unhappy, sad, or dejected, depressed and sorrowful" pretty much describes the world of mankind, doesn't it? Christians fighting a war is not fun either.
I wouldn't call JWs the happiest people on earth, but they do have a hope and God's spirit. The fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, and self-control.
@@ronhansen8471 they don’t have gods spirit! They are a man made money greedy organization , Pharisees, how do I know? I was in it since 1970. Don’t tell me things that I know, seen , felt and experienced!
@ronhansen8471 if they had the fruits of the spirit they wouldn't be nasty pieces of work gossiping and backbiting. Having been in it 35yrs and been out 6 months I can honestly say they are the nastiest disgusting vile people who walk the face of this earth masquerading as Christians
My, my, my...Did you EVER hit the nail on the head! I left because I was the congregation gossip interest. This was mainly in my peer group, but since I was a single mom with 4 kiddos, I didn't quite fit in! I was actually accused of sleeping with my stepbrother because he moved in with me and my kids--I needed the protection living in a somewhat dangerous neighborhood. After years of being mistreated by the other moms in the congregation, the stepbrother situation was the straw that broke the camel's back! Most of the "sisters" gossiping about me experienced all of their kids leaving the organization. The elders never did anything, in spite of my constant pleas for their support and guidance--in fact--most of their wives were the ones gossiping about me!
OMG Ghia, not at all surprised, but so angry for you!! Incredible! I grew up in a single mother family and the rumors were constant. If it wasn't rumors it was 'opinions' on what my mother should be doing.....so sorry for what you've endured!
Thank you for discussing this. I am POMO and moved out of state bc of gossip and slander! If I went to the elders about it, or even talked about it with my family I was counseled and told to suck it up.
I'm so sorry! Terrible....you had to change your entire life due to other people sinning and everyone joining in! I hope you're at peace now!
We had a Queen Bee in my new congregation. She and her husband ruled the roost. They made life unbearable for myself and many others. I have so many stories about her “reign of terror” that would sicken an outsider. She and her clique set the whole mood for the congregation. It was a deeply troubled and sick time for anyone she choose to target. People bowed to her. Although most saw her behavior it was tolerated. An elders wife was specifically targeted and the elder faulted his wife for not bending and being forgiving. He negated everything suffering thing she felt and experienced. Her pain and ostracism by many people was horrifying to watch. This is a VERY real thing in congregations. I observed it for over 45 years. It’s absolutely devastating to be a victim of such slanderous and cruel people because these people are all you have….
A very common story in JWs!!! The sisters truly create the culture in a congregation, especially if they're the elder's wives. I'm so sorry for how all of you were treated. It's VERY common....and terrible!
Me, my husband and my son have been through very similar treatment. These people behave in the vilest manner. Many congregations are just full of Psychopathic narcissists. I'm glad I'm out. This organisation is not backed by Almighty God
This is what happened tp me and is still happening to me. It has destroyed my life, my marriage, and my family. That cult is very dangerous and destructive.
(((HUGS))) I'm so sorry Alice! I've been a victim myself! I hope you and your family can get away from it and seek some therapy....it's very helpful for such damage!
This is one of the many reasons that woke me up to the fact the cult is not the "truth". I started missing many hours as a pioneer because I dreaded the gossip and hostility in the car groups, some worse than others, but for the most part all the car groups had the same. I hated when someone would get out of a car to go to a door, the gossip and slander was awful, and the awkwardness when the person would get back in the car was gut-wrenching. I always knew they were gossiping about me when I got out of the car, they hated that I wouldn't join in the convo, one particular person would poke at me and mock, ridicule me for staying quiet, calling me goody two shoes, I was like no I just don't feel miserable and bored with life that I need to gossip about someone.. thanks for this video , you are spot on.
YES!! Oh wow this brought back so many memories....all of this going on when the group is supposed to be saving lives. LOL. It's absurd....and it's incredibly damaging to everyone involved. The way a group would suddenly 'hush' when you opened the door to get into the car..... 🤨
@survivingparadisepodcast , the whole video brought back so many memories for me as well. For a while, I thought it was something I blew out of proportion in my head because when I would express my concern about the gossip I was dismissed or told I'm too sensitive. Hearing your take on the gossip and slander in the cult was validating, it's insane how universal it is.. Doesn't matter where you go it's the same in every congregation! so sad lol it just the culture.
@@ginagallegos4906 It's so true. It's baked into the entire culture. Outside of alcohol, I think it's the #1 problem among JW's in the west. People's lives are destroyed by this stuff. People end up single for life or for the guys, they never are appointed as elders....all due to gossip. It runs SO deep. You're NOT too sensitive. The gossip going on in JW congregations breaks so many 'bible principles' it's absurd. Even the GB do it on video now.....dropping a 'controversial comment' then moving on....leaving everyone to feed off the 'what ifs?'.....it's so bad, I'm so glad you're OUT!
@@survivingparadisepodcast I completely agree . and thank you. Keep up the great work! I appreciate your videos and the topics!
@@ginagallegos4906 Thank YOU Gina...appreciate you!
Gossip is something that I need to work on. I have a problem with saying things without thinking but I'm working on it.
I was treated as a harlot for going on my very first date at 16 with an elders son. My parents were hardly scraping by as publishers so I was not what they wanted for their son. Hence that was over ASAP and you could tell everyone knew when I went back to the hall after that. My family was treated like outcasts and the elders wanted to come over to counsel me? My parents declined this. Also, I like that myriads song reference. Hadn’t thought of that song in years! Thank you for your channel. The wounds still surface and it’s good to know I’m not alone.
I'm so glad you remember that horrific song! LOL! You and I were the same kids: I was the oldest to a single mother and wasn't seen as the 'prize' kid to marry...we were constantly left out of things until I got older. Imagine a 16 year old girl being treated like that! So sorry!
I was on the other side of the States and it was just like that. EVERYBODY knew EVERYBODY"S business. It was at every meeting! There were elders wives that even whispered about who was caught sinning too.
It's literally a part of every visit to the Kingdom Hall, isn't it?
Remember when an a prominent elders wife and her mother were both disfellowshipped for gossiping- happy memories
Wow that is VERY VERY rare!!
Gossip and slander can lead someone to a deep depression and even suicide. Group dynamics can have awful consequences while nobody specifically takes responsibility. JWs gossiping and slandering is yet another reason why they are not “God’s chosen people”. IMO, they have pretty much all the negative traits of so-called “worldly” people, while having a complete lack of self-awareness.
I was a Bible student and by the end of my studies, it greatly irked me that I would sense my conductor/teacher being condescending toward me. I get that we should feel a sense of humility when being in a position of learning something, but I was made to feel like a child that was being taught the basics of life by an adult. This is someone 14 years younger than me with arguably a lot less life experience than myself. I know this is a bit of a digression, but this teacher would gossip with another JW if we met up as 3 people. I just thought….you’re just a flawed human like I am, but I really don’t like gossiping, knowing that if I’m in a group that gossips, it means they are gossiping about me too. The gossiping just made me think “who are you guys, really?”
You're VERY correct! It's potential for tragedy is VERY high! Your bible study sounds all too familiar. ...I'm so sorry you went through that and thankful you're free!!
@@survivingparadisepodcast thanks for replying (I'm logged into my other account here!), I really enjoy your podcasts. There was always this duality between JWs acting all pious, prim and proper....and then just completely dropping that act in a heartbeat. In one moment, my conductor is trying to convey that I'm essentially climbing a vast, moral mountain with him as my guide, the lead climber. There will be easy sections of the climb, there will be difficult sections. However, with enough faith, I can leap the chasms and rope-swing to the correct footholds when required. That kind of talk. And then...within SECONDS of all of these edifying words, he can turn to his fellow JW and say..."oh, did you hear about brother X? He's moving to another cong. Not sure why, but sister Y thinks it's because of Z". To use your wonderful, never-gets-boring, I-always-look-forward-to-it catchphrase: What?!?! WHAT?!?! I would experience this whiplash constantly between what I take now to be an act of piety, and a complete dropping of the act. This happened CONSTANTLY, and not just in bible studies, but in meetings. The inauthentic nature of this bizarre gear-changing between practically two personas was head-spinning to me, and so many JWs did it. It's like they have two modes, and they can't integrate them together, or that perhaps one is real, and one is contrived. I actually left some meetings thinking "shit, am I taking this too seriously?". Looking back, imagine going to a place of religious worship, and then asking yourself that question.
It's really in the last 10-15 years watchtower has started to focus much more on agape and gossip. Especially when watchtower study magazine for congregations came out. They should have focus hard on this subject about 50-60 years ago. Typical of watchtower, always to late and too little.
@@newcoloursmusic1255 thanks newcolour!! You get whiplash inside JWs, between new light and counsel changing within sentences of each other....LOL...what?? Yeah, even now I'm still consistently amazed at the depth of cognitive dissonance!
What are you doing right know but spreading malicious gossip. Slander and even gossip can be a cause for disfellowshipping. led
Oh boy where do I begin? I have stories of stories for days and ain't even know how I know them. 🤦🏿♂️
You could fill a library. You're not alone!
The one's that gossiped or slandered the most, usually did it to distract from their own unhappy, miserable lives.
There is a word in the German language, "schadenfreude" it's used to describe people that derive pleasure from the misfortune of others. No shortage of that in a kingdom hall.
Another good German word to describe these toxic JWs is *schweinhund.*
They're all so generally unhappy that they all join in....it's truly sad
Oh yes I remember well. In my hall there were 2 sisters....both elders wives who were the gossips. They were terrible. I fact one got so bad that her husband had to step down as an elder because of her gossiping.
I have been a victim of this gossip too. I was in a divided household.... Mum in the so called truth and Dad not. So I often had worldly ways or cos my dad put up Xmas decorations etc I would be the hot sugject of the often very hurtful gossip. I was often seen as a bad one and I think it's one reason I pushed hard and became a pioneer etc to prove to the rest I was as good as they were.... Elders wives are the worst for gossip.....
Agree! If the elder's wives are involved, it's gossip on steroids. I'm always uncomfortable singling out either gender, but the fact is, the poor sisters are left with nothing to do and are so beaten down......gossip becomes a part of their lives.
If u’re a bordering PIMI drifting into PIMO status, pls take heed to this week’s podcast. Fact is, if u share anything w/ Elders, there’s a 98% chance w/in a month others in the congregation will know outside that Elder’s Body.
The culture that was talked about was spot on. I used to be on a body w COBE that would salivate when a judicial matter pop up. It became the 8, 9, 10, & 11 O’clock news for him & others. What should’ve been a short meeting to discuss who would be selected for the committee would turn into a gossip fest, not just about the subject, but other folks who “needed spiritual help.”
The reason why others would know is b/c either:
A. The wives would find out & they would tell a “confidential” source who would then tell their “confidential” source.
B. Elders r close to certain brothers outside the body, have a couple of drinks & voila.
C. It’s publicly announced, and then the rumor mill circles.
These boring lives lead to getting their kicks from gossip. I’ve been a victim of slander from a sister making up an outrageous story about me b/c she had interest & I wasn’t remotely interested, to being called materialistic & not spiritual minded for the new car I bought myself. Crazy, miserable culture.
That is a spot on description of how it all happens!!
Man, I have so many stories about this, I can write a novel. This video brought back memories.
A novel worth writing, but I'm not surprised. It's a MASSIVE problem with JWs...and the elders won't do anything, in fact, they contribute to it
@@survivingparadisepodcast This is so true. I remember a brother's wife left him for another man and she was disfellowship. After they announced her, df there was an elder and a group of women gossiping about it after the meeting. The brother was so embarrassed he left the Congregation to go to another one.
That happens ALL the time. Especially with cheating. No one will let you forget and people are forced to move far away. Happened to several people I knew for years...they swapped wives.....a disaster....they all had to leave to other ends of the country!@@angelac2228
Right on .. let’s get this party started. 😂😂
And it's a large party! Has anyone heard of the protest march in October for CSA on the White House and Congress? I hear it will take place October 31st? Does anyone have info they can share!
Look up Be free 2023
PARTY!!
@@ingramwright5399 should be interesting 🤔 being I am in Africa this year will not be able to attend unfortunately! Reminds me of the 60's Sit-In's! WOW! Memories for sure!
Great video. Gossip/slander was so inbuilt in my upbringing that I struggle to recognize it as "bad" to this day. I mean, ofc I understand that outright slander, spreading malicious lies, is terrible, but where it gets to the "human interest" side, talking about people; where lines get fuzzier. Where it's "stories," whether or not it's ANY of my business. Honestly I struggle.
But in my congregation. I knew who had had an affair. I knew how one guy had had a vasectomy, and how people wondered how fertile the couple were to just. Keep. Having. Babies. Anyway? 😬 I knew whose brother had committed suicide and how the remaining brother ALSO had mental health issues. The list goes on and on. Oh, and these things I knew IN MY TEENS. 🤦♀️
My only JW friend, she was depressed - we were in our late teens - and she was starting to try and get help. She confided in me, showed me the scars she had up her arms, on her legs. 😔 Well, I was inactive at the time already, so my friend decided to do the "proper thing." She sought help from a "spiritually mature sister." This sister was a member of my friend's extended family, very respected in the congregation, her husband was either an elder or MS at the time. I don't know what help the sister could provide, but come next meeting, my friend found herself to be a pariah. Her friends told her they couldn't sit with or spend time with her any more; their parents had been "warned" about the cutting. That's the help my friend got. Her problem spread all over the congregation, her sitting alone now. 😢 Breaks my heart. 😔
Thank you Elecyah! Wow, that all sounds so familiar and tragic. All terrible trials for those people and yet they're all out there for public consumption. I'm not surprised, I heard much of the same stuff as a kid!
Stacey, EVERY WORD YOU SAY IS TRUE. I decided to go to college because during my old age, i did not want to walk around picking up bottles for my survival. I was slandered in the worse way by the princes' wives and pioneers because apparently, as some stated, they got scholarships as youths but could not attend because during that time the GB strongly discouraged higher education. And how dare this single parent of 5 get up and go to college. I will not go into what happened to me. PURE EVIL! It was so bad that I decided to talk to the circuit overseer, and what a bad move that was. With a smirk on his face he said, "you know, we do that sometimes." Little did I know, he had lunch with these gossipers who greased his palms, discussed me being a single parent and very sensitive, and that was the end of that. As long as I live, as old as I get, I WILL NEVER FORGET THESE EVIL PEOPLE. Sometimes I see some of them, and if I don't turn my head, I will NEVER speak to them. THANKS TO THE GREAT I AM I SURVIVED.
@@Coral-lu5hi :( I'm so sorry you endured that!! Terrible.....there is no natural love or affection and single parents can take a beating inside JWs. The CO's deserve an entire show!!
I love your comment about the ala carte belief system of JWs. They've never ordered a Biblical entree in their entire lives. Here's a prime example:
"Significantly, the Mosaic Law forbade God’s people to *tattoo* themselves. Said Leviticus 19:28: “You must not make cuts in your flesh for a deceased soul, and you must not put tattoo marking upon yourselves. I am Jehovah.” Awake! 2003 Sep 22 p.26
However, notice a mere *one* verse up at Leviticus 19:27:
“You must not cut your sidelocks short around, and you *must not destroy the extremity of your beard.”*
So, WT uses a single Bible verse to justify a tattoo ban, but seems to be blind to the verse _just prior_ to that edict that decimates their beard ban. WTs policy completely overlooks the fact that Christians are not under the Mosaic Law. Duh! Welcome to the Buffet of Buffoonery.
Great stuff Adam! I actually covered this EXACT example in a past episode, it's a favorite! The irony and insanity.....within a verse of each other! It's a huge reason I left!
Right on point about gossip and slander. They are a so-called 'dynamic duo", albeit a dangerous duo. This reminds me of the old saying, "Loose lips sink ships". They wreck more lives and reputations than we can imagine. That is why it behooves each and every one of us to think before talking about others. Otherwise, it is best to hold our peace and simply stay away from all gossip. Thank you for warning your viewers about the dangers of gossip and slander, which is a very timely and wise message. Keep up the good work.
By the way, here is what I would say to all gossipers and slanderers; Shut your mouths! Stop meddling in the business of other people, and keep your mouths shut.
Great reminder george....easy to slip into this stuff!
@@georgebrown8312 And from me: GET A LIFE.... lol
I once confessed some matters bothering me about myself and trying to shore up my spiritual fort. The Elders wife's threw in there 2 cents worth about my confession on the next Watchtower study through there comments. I couldn't prove it but I'm not stupid. It was twisted a little off subject and directed towards me. Last time I ever talked. You can't sell me out. What an insult.
😮....unbelievable, but yep, I've seen this happen more than once. With all the other elders wondering how she could make such a 'timely comment'.......ask her husband!
& THAT is what Mark Twain meant-"A lie can travel around the world before the truth puts it's shoes on"😅😅
LOVE that quote!!
Danke.
It's funny my mother who is 45 years strong in the cult calls me to gossip about people in her congregation that I don't know. I want to go to a meeting just so I can see all these people.
LOL, oh no! She has created her own JW reality show!
Policing the congregation and not shepherding so true and extremely sad
All EGO driven
:( it's truly tragic, people need help....but they won't get it
In the 22 years I was a JW after recruited at age 14, my life was full of tears and despair over the gossip and slander I was subjected to because I married someone who wasn’t baptised when I was. Even when he did eventually got baptised people held it against me anyway. Where’s the mercy? Humanity and love? In the end I didn’t even like myself.
(((HUGS))) don't let ONE thing those people said about you stay in your life! You're a baby at 14!!! There is zero love in this insane world of JWs
Please don't let what others think or say about you define who you are. People gossiped about you to fill a void in their life to justify their inadequacies.
@@davidreda1211 Yes! This!!
Good video thx.
So true, dangerous group, so glad im out.
Thanks Elaine, I'm so glad you're out too!!
'... 🎵🎶each one a fairhful witness...
keeping integrity '
Havent heard that song in 30 years
LOL, oh the memories....
Stacey, you must have been one hell of a orator when you were active in the cult of JW’s. Your speaking, reasoning, and delivery are second to none. I always look forward to your new videos to appear so that I can relish in them. Thanks a million for all of your hard work getting these videos out to us!
You're too kind Super Dave and thank you!! I appreciate you listening more than you know!
Great video! Haven’t been commenting recently because I’ve been listening on Spotify! Some days I just shuffle your episodes for the whole work day they are so great!
Thank you so much! I love the podcast platforms, especially Spotify....thank you if you're one of those fine people that have left a review, you're appreciated!
Moving to another congregation no matter how far away won’t stop it. The elders send a “letter of introduction” to the new congregation that will likely include anything negative.
100% true....those letters can make or break you ...and they're all personal opinion!!!
As exjws we expose, flaws and corruption of the org.
It's justified in my mind to expose criminals.
Your thoughts?
It's harmful gossip . It's keeping a extremely harmful man-made organization going why don't you talk about the word SHUNNING that's real harm and keeping the members ruled by FEAR ITS A POWERFUL CONTROL TACTIC IT WORKS AND CAUSES SUUICIDE 😮😢
I do agree Elaine.....the rub can sometimes be 'who' is exposed and I try to focus on the leadership because I believe THEY are responsible and know what they're doing. I fully believe in exposing this organization, particularly when it comes to how children are in danger!
I knew a "sister" who had full-on hatred for MANY people in the Org. The MOST slanderous person i believe I've ever met in my life. But, her husband was an Elder. This woman used to be on every drama performed at the assemblies. She was always in the backroom about slandering someone. But was always considered 'spiritually mature". Once again a proven winner that this is not an organization approved by any loving God.😢
Unfortunately, I knew several sisters just like her. One in particular. She was horrible to people!
Interesting Gossip Stuff !
There was this Family in the Spanish Congregation I attended, a Daughter belonged to the Mother’s 1st marriage… or so the entire Cong was made to believe. Well, someone got wind that this was a LIE, and that the Daughter wasn’t a legitimate Child of the first marriage but rather that the Mother was a serial Adulterous and Her 3 Children were from 3 different Men…. It got to a desperate point that the entire Family, all parties involved, had to relocate out of town, some even out of State. Gossip and slander are the order of the day in JW world. There were sooo many JWs involved in this case that the Elders just let it die out on its own.
HORRIBLE! And all too common! People literally have to leave the area to try to rebuild their lives from their time in the 'loving organization on earth'
A few years after we had moved to a different congregation, the rumor was spread that out apartment was destroyed by fire which of course wasn't true. Imagine our surprise when at the next circuit assembly a family approached us telling us: "I heard you were burned out." The sister, wife of an elder said to me with a big smile on her face.
"No, we are not!" I said.
Her most stupid reply was: "Yes, you were."
She said it grinning all over her face. Seemed to me she and her husband actually started the rumor since she enjoyed the thought so much and actually wished something bad had happened to us.
I didn't realize until then that family must have hated us very much. Or it was envy.
Didn't know why.
I'm so sorry not surprised at all! I've seen and heard terrible things at Kingdom Halls....and often times it's with a very evil motive
If I had 5 thumbs on each hand, they would all be thumbs up. As always straight to the point and saying it as it is. Thank You. 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍 Meetings? arrive late, leave early, come to think of it, why bother at all. Thank you Stacey.
So true!! I actually know JW's that now 'limit their association'....they believe the insanity, but struggle with the people!!
I tried telling a friend who is a victim of her reputation being destroyed that gossip and slander is a part of jw culture, but she denied it being cultural. Instead she said it's because of where we are, it's a regional thing but not everywhere because "you can't judge the entire group". Like jw life is based around judging an entire group of "worldly" people first of all and YES gossip and slander IS the culture.
I'm so sorry for your friend, they're not alone! The culture of JW's is poisoned by this stuff.....and the everything about their lives feeds it!
When I was studying, I wasn’t even a JW yet a JW at my employment warned me that because I was not the type of person telling everyone my business that I would be at the centre of gossip and rumour and to be prepared.
The man wasn’t even in my congregation or circuit. In fact he’s from Africa and we are in the U.K. When I asked him why that would be he said it’s because JWs have nothing better to do that’s their form of entertainment.
So inform your friend that it’s the culture in Africa, Europe and the Caribbean😂 I think there’s enough testimony in this comment section that confirms it in the States!
@@broncosbest6441 So true, it truly is their biggest form of entertainment. Who needs soap operas or reality TV, they live it and tell the world about each other!
I remember growing up with an elder father and I felt it was a position that was all about gossip/slander and relishing punishing people who you didn’t like. I wanted to say to him “if JW friends were the most loving and true friends, but you are gossiping and pointing out all their faults then why are you pretending to like them ?!?” The two faced culture is very rampant. I mean they claim to hunger for the truth but complain about the taste….
Agree, absolutely rampant!
You made me think of a situation... I was 17, I think, and there were 2 other girls in my congregation. 1 of them was a close friend, the other was a few years older and had a different group of friends. After the older one had broken up her engagement, she connected with my friend and ’suddenly’ they were best friends, doing everything together and leaving me out.
One day my ’friend’ asked if we could meet to chat. Turned out that our situation was causing a devision in the congregation. I had no clue, but she was a daughter of an elder, so probably heard via ”the circuit”. I was naifly stunned that it was possible to have that effect on a congregation
So many similar stories. Engagements deserve an entire show....breaking one back in the day was highly controversial. I'm not surprised by your story, but I'm sure glad you're out!!
@@survivingparadisepodcast same! Never to go back ❤ They couldn’t be able to accept my free spirit 😆
I remember when my sister was engaged and there was trouble in paradise, they weren’t allowed to break it off. It made an impression on me and I suspect it made me even more determined to not date guys. Ah well, even after holding hands for the first time, weddings are being arranged already...
@@naomiwillemsen9836 Ugh....imagine forcing people to get into a marriage they don't want!
Every word true. I've seen it all in 30 years.
Yep....same!
Newby here. Never been a JW but had a few friends & extended family who were. Lovely neighbor hood knocker fam used to visit. Being a Bible reader I felt to enjoin them kindly, as I'm an over 60 grandma..went to that big meeting and noticed the under script of some rather horrible prideful weirdness amongst "leader" men as I've been around the block a few times. The little family I went with exuded a delightful limerance - they were lovely people, 2 darling very intelligent nerdy young ❤daughters. One day I finally broke it quietly to the dad, look sunny Jim, the Bible says you are the head of your household and bear all the responsibility before God, not some men who live far off in New York (we're in Australia) and when you finally really study the Bible for yourself you will no longer be a Jehovah's Witness. It was good. They never returned, hot or cold but not lukewarm. I wish them the very best.
I love that you did this!! It's literally the only way to help people 'turn their brains' on again! Basic logic! Thanks for being here!
I grow up on South Beach Fl fishing and surfing and hanging with my non JW friends. Even through my father was an elder, most of the congregation viewed us a bad association, when we became ministerial servant the Gossip and slander continued and we never , ever had good standings in the congregation. When we started our College career it was even worst for us , almost every week the elders started talking to us about the danger of college and how they notice that we were spiritually weaker now. Finally , my father had to move congregations and when we tried to move the elders did not want to transfer our cards or recommend us as ministerial servants. I gave up and left the JW in 2000 and never looked back.
Unreal! I'm so glad you RAN AWAY.... I've seen so many people have to move just to change their lives after all of the damage done in 'god's organization'
Great episode!
In one paragraph of the same article they write that rumors are bad, in another that they are good, and in the third that it depends :D It's crazy, and it's even crazier that there are people who think it's the organization of God who is unchangeable :D
LOL, isn't it comical??? Do three different people ;write these juvenile articles??
My congregation had 11 elders at one point. The in fighting was awful, there were about 20 kids that were elder kids all within a 7 year age gap. If elder families had beef with each other their elder fathers would target other elder kids that "wronged" their children. I got sucked into it because I was dating a guy that another girl wanted so she started rumors that I had made inappropriate advances to my then boyfriend. I was publicly reprimanded.
My cousin in another state was disfellowshipped over gossip, a few years later it was uncovered that it wasn't true and they were reinstated and nothing happened to the gossip starter and they were never apologized to. When I was 8 I remember going door to door with two pioneer sisters and they were openly talking about another person that was having a affair with her co worker, at least they thought it was true. Yeah it turned out to be true but I was EIGHT! That was not something they should have ever been talking about in front of a child.
There was a announcement that two couples (not named) were under investigation for sexting, but they didn't say who. It started a shit storm of gossip that ripped through the whole circuit. So many people were implicated over it and it ruined some people because they were singled out. Two years after it happened it turned out to be two couples that were all elders kids who never had mud thrown on them.
It was always a joke in my area that if someone did something our entire circuit A and B would know within 2 weeks. And it wasn't wrong as far as I could tell. Our congregation was one of the worst because the secretaries wife was told everything by him and she was notorious for spreading gossip to anyone that would listen. Sadly I could go on and on, but yeah this stuff is really prominent in the JWs.
UGH! Doesn't shock me at all! It's a 24/7 gossip mill and NOTHING is private, even if it is true. Elders and their wives are often the worst perpetrators of all of it...and wow, if the secretaries wife has access to the info, stories and publisher cards,.....look out! I wish I could say that those stories were rare, they aren't!
@@survivingparadisepodcast Yeah she was awful, a SAHM that had nothing else to do. She ended up getting me pushed out of my friend group. I asked her why she did it and she straight out told me she didn't like that I was competition for her daughter and she didn't regret it.
Karma came for her though, her husband got sucked into a catfish years later cause he was bored with her. He secretly remortgaged their house to send all the cash to some "girl" in Jamaica. She ended up coming to the states and he was housing her and having an affair. She was about 20 years older than she said but ok. His wife finally found out, found out she was broke and he was disfellowshipped and had to work at a gas station after retiring from John Deeres cause he was so freaking broke. She ended up having to move in with her sister because she went from pampered house wife with all the disposable income to zero moneies. Worth the wait, my popcorn was popped and I was happy. You cant make this stuff up.
@@tinycowz WHOA!!! That is a truly horrific story!! I think we need to talk about 'karma'..... :)
Few minutes in and this one already hits a nerve. A big reason why (before I woke up to the JW BS machine) that I felt I could never go back was the high likelihood that not only the reason I was DF'd but also a very serious untrue allegation made would have spread through like wildfire and would have made things an absolute living hell. And that is not a light thing - it nearly cost me my life, literally.
Even now it has stunted my ability to talk freely to the people now in my life that I care about. And it's very hard for them to fully understand just why it's a challenge ; why I naturally clam up, don't want to share my thoughts.
The absolute damage slander and gossip does is total evil.
I'm sorry sound! We have all had it hit a nerve in one way or another as well! I'm sorry for what you've been through, but I'm so glad you got out! Therapy can help reclaim a sense or normalcy from all the PSTD a JW faces
@@survivingparadisepodcast thanks man. Now if me and my wallet cam just agree on therapy...lol
Seriously though, definitely something I've been looking into
@@soundthealarm83 It is just a ton to unpack once you leave....there has been so much damage you don't realize, be good to yourself!
@@survivingparadisepodcast oh for sure. I'm 144,000% sure we all carry damage we don't even know we have until the right moment reveals it from all this. It's almost crazy to even try to comprehend.
@@soundthealarm83 It rears it's ugly head down the road! It's so damaging
My mother, an 'elder-ette' who also was a regular pioneer was a BULLY and a gossip
Horrible cAuAnAtA
They often are the worst
Yes more than one name! Judgers! We called it the theocratic grapevine
Ha, I forgot that phrase!
I agree that most JW are unhappy people with repressed anger, especially among sisters. One aspect you didn't mention is that many sisters want to date, marry, or remarry, and are limited to an extremely small number pool of "qualified" brothers. I seen sisters compete and once even fight over these men. I had older single sisters how they regretted not dating and marrying "worldly" men who had expressed interest in them. One pioneer sister said she wished she had married and then moved away to a different congregation where no one knew her.
As a "obedient" JW I didn't gossip but reported a wrong doing i witnessed by an elder. What i didn't know was that the other elders already knew but were covering for him . Not only did they him, they told their wives and others in the congregation. What was gossiped about me was not the truth but no one asked me anything or if it was true, they just marked and shunned me.
Eventually I left, which was the best that could have happened. I should send them a thank you card.
Every last one of the jehovah witnesses gossip and murmuring about people. Then after that, they want to disfellowship you. I'm so glad I never got disfellowshiped, but I never under gone Johns baptism either.
Very true Jonathan!
Most of the sisters
Unfortunately true
Gossip has been a big problem there
Everywhere among JWs!
Thanks for sharing your experiences.
Thank YOU for being here :)
I didn’t gossip so of course according to the congregation that was because I had something to hide😂. When I had done nothing! So when one of my children had done the elder’s wife came to me and said so quiet are we hiding something! Letting me know she knew😂. Even though I was the subject many a time this podcast should have come with a warning I laughed that much almost choked on my ☕️ . My comment does recognise this subject has hurt a lot of people deeply (including myself) but I did 😂 all the way through it!
Wow Bronco....bringing the heat with real world experiences!!! LOL, glad you laughed.....I really need some of that laughter.....and wow on the elders wife!
@@survivingparadisepodcast I didn’t laugh at the time though! Ironically because I didn’t gossip some in the congregation confided in me saying you keep your 👄 shut so it’s safe to tell you! As you gave your account I said I thought he said he was American how can that be he’s obviously from the three congregations I’ve been in the U.K. He describes them so accurately😂.
@@broncosbest6441 🤣😎
The most messed up part is they low key encourage this there is nothing to do u can't watch any good movies listen 2 any good movies even they police your bedroom so what's left to gossip and slander it's kinda the only thing they have left that makes them not in a hcg
VERY true....it's absolutely encouraged!!
If u let them police your bedroom, more fool you. !
@@antonypelling9194 They will sit on the bed!
One of the last mtgs I attended.(never baptised-thank goodness)
I was called out from the Stage & 1 of the "pious sisters" included in her comment a sly way to comment on my dress.(can we say passive/aggressive?)
Was still working midnights (retired nurse) & had stopped by my parents house on my way home. My Dad implored me to please go with him that Sunday morning.
Told him I didn't have anything to wear. He said,"You have that green dress hanging in the closet & those shoes you left here."
It was NOT a slut dress, but had a 3" slit at front bottom right hem. OMG! right?!?😅not low cut - not tight. Just a dress.
Went with my Dad because I loved him so much. Was EXHAUSTED after working 12 hr shift, but I went.
That was my reward. My Dad was so embarrassed by the false piety displayed by those "Godly" people. He never asked me to go again. HE KNEW!
WOW Cindy! Instead of welcoming you and being happy you made such a huge effort......they took shots at you?? SO COMMON......and I'm so sorry :(
Thanks ever so for your reply. No sorry needed! Those are the things that make me stronger, wiser & more beautiful than even I imagined possible😊🌟the most beautiful things are sometimes wrapped up in all kinds of ugly. 🌟Just have to be courageous enough to unwrap them...don't quit - EVER💪‼️
@@Cindy-yq1cy Love it, never quit!
Thank you, kind sir🌟🌟☯️
Gossip and slander are rampant in the halls. Another thing I saw in the halls...seemed to be a big wife swap organization.
The amount of divorce and remarriage in the org is astounding.
Very sad.
Both very true! Gossip is a given.....everywhere. Wife swapping has really become common in the past 20 years, pretty shocking. Divorce used to be a scandal....not at all anymore....many plan adultery just so they can divorce
I can't get tired of telling you how I admire your creativity and intensity Stacey,,,, when you mentioned about brother's moving across the country because of gossip ok this happened in a congregation close to mine in the mid 90s,, and back then there was no Cialis or Viagra, this brother was in his early 40s and at that age very sad I say he couldn't get his soldier up for battle,,, so he was working overtime to put the money for an operation and also busy in the preaching and the service,,,, in all the mean time he was doing that the horny sister his wife found someone to handle her craving,, he found out filed for divorce she was disfellowedship and everyone else in the meantime found out,,, he ended up moving to another state because of like you say the dinamic duo, "gossip and slander" so sad,,, when you can respond to me and tell me what you think of that one and last week episode was great also I will steal your line till next week and be well.
Thank you David! You're too kind......and I have to say, I'm sort of horrified. I have an exact same story about a couple I knew since they were kids......exact story. I'm wondering if we know the same people!!!?
@@survivingparadisepodcast LMAO 🤣🤣🤣 now wouldn't that be something 😂
Stacey in our KH the elders made women feel important by flatteringly telling her she sees details others miss. The elders used the sisters to know what’s going on in secret.
I have a girlfirend from JW when i was a child. Since i am not a Jehovah Witnesse. She refuse to see me and have activity with me and rarely contact me on Messenger.
All the pioneers are the masters of gossip
Absolute masters....their lives are so miserable
😂🎉 just found your podcast on Spotify. Thank you so much
Thank you for hanging out with us!!! Warning: We are bad association 🤭😂
I had an elder discuss private information with a group around a campfire. When confronted, he said, " it was out of love and to help me." So it wasn't gossip. I was being dramatic 🙄
I haven't watched this yet but have a story. My uncle is a JW , his son converted . Now you'd think his son who converted would be his favourite child right ?
His converted son has been unemployed eight years or longer , little ambition but both his parents have been unemployed for over 15. So they're on the coach to the assembly , my cousin and his JW dad and on the coach my uncle starts having a go at him " I've never even known you to look for a job " in front of all the JWs
Now at the Kingdom hall after this my cousin would have sisters coming up to him degrading him " you haven't got a job " they'd say to him. Absolute ";*;;'+& . If my uncle wanted to have a go at him for being unemployed with no ambition , ( bear in mind he had been unemployed longer ) in public in front of Snakes is NOT the place to degrade and humiliate him
:( wow, I'm so sorry to read this. This is what they call 'love' in JWs. They claim to follow Jesus, but here is an example of some that don't!
@@survivingparadisepodcast too many are like this.
Finding life & death issues in the JW cult is like shooting fish in a barrel, isnt it? Lol! Every point you made here is profound, as usual. While not a one of us is innocent, some take it to an epic level. The JW life creates a microcosm of people who have no life, no joy, no outside interests or personal hobbies, to the point that they are completely robbed of humanity. As a quiet, painfully shy person, I came close to losing my life b/c of gossip & slander more than once, it was that severe. It was huge in causing me to leave. Much damage & pain could have been avoided if I had left the 1st time. If you think its bad in a big city congregation of 150, & it is, try a congregation of 30 in an isolated town. Slander can go both ways. It can be false & it can be true. Ive both been falsely accused by someone seeking revenge on another person...& threathened that if I reported true crimes to the police, that I would be DF'd for slander. Its been the sweetest peace in the years since I left! I love good quotes, so enjoyed your reverence to Bertrand Russell. As a result of what I have experienced, I have made a quiet practice of trying to point out other peoples virtues, when I find them. And you are the best! Thanks!
So true Heather!! None are innocent, but to create an environment where it is actually encouraged... that's another matter. And it can be deadly! Smaller congregations are often worse! When I left I felt such a sense of RELIEF just like you did.... like a hundred pounds was off my back. Best feeling ever! I'm glad you enjoy quotes, so do I!
On point, on point 💯. Personally i still believe in the bible , not their doctrine however
Thanks Tim, completely respect that....glad you're free of this org!
Gotta love those gossipy elderesses 😂
They never stop
Can someone help me?( Answering l mean) I was One for 30 years going to college they made such a big dea
Satan was on campus blabla bla.
But l was so so gullable l believed
They printed those artcles to prevent the problem to start not because there actually was a problem .
Even now l find hard to believ3 there Is gossip among them
happy to help if we can! Gossip is a way of life with JWs
I think you are wrong - elders are very interested in stopping gossip and slander, for example when a child is raped and tells the elders and because the rapist forgot to invite an audience, he / she will be told that if they speak about it or tell police then it would be 'slander' and the child will be for the 'chop'. (but it would stop 'reproach' on God's name - so that's ok then).
I see what you did there! A valid point...protecting the 'truth' surrounding something that is very dangerous to others. It's unreal isn't it?
Dovey fuzz
Fuzzy duck...
I wouldn't compare elders with the police, they're just the opposite: they don't want justice... sorry CSA victim here.
I was named the girl without a smile...
I'm SO sorry Natasha.....I cover the heinous crime in several episodes and often get very emotional. I agree, they're not remotely qualified to help victims and we all know the horrors of how the protect the abusers! I'm SO sorry....and I hope you're getting comfort and help.... ((((HUGS)))
Has anyone ever told you how much you sound like Patrick Warburton? (Puddy) That's who I'm picturing as I listen . . .
Thanks evil buddha!! LOL, I've been told that and I had to look up who that was, I don't watch much TV....that's a compliment, thanks!!
@@survivingparadisepodcast compliment intended. I probably should have added that the CONTENT is also a good listening experience. Two thumbs up! (That's the rating system the kids are using these days, isn't it?)
@@evilbuddha7819 Thanks Evil!! I appreciate you!