He should be signed for next year... as the reserve driver (and get him back in F2 to rebuild confidence). If he's not succeeding in F2, and not showing FP1 promise, it will tell Williams what they need to know.
A few months back Logan was on the Beyond the Grid podcast and that was one of the takeaways I had gotten from the episode. He seems very timid, almost like the desire to fight just isn’t there and he’s just happy to be there. Like he’s missing that cutthroat, killer instinct mentality top tier athletes have. At some point they were talking about Alex and he was asked if he’s been able to utilize him as a resource to learn from. He said that they don’t really talk like that. I kind of got the impression that Alex intimates him or that he’s too shy to to ask him for help.
Stroll needs to go, not being able to finish in the top 10 in points which it’s looking like right now is completely unacceptable when your teammate was getting podiums and the maximum out of the car when it was competitive
He really does crumble under pressure. In Monza, he was overtaken by Bottas, but it wasn’t over because he still had the inside line. His engineer got on the phone to say “Come on you can get him back”, and Sargeant immediately choked and crashed into Bottas.
As an American I’m pissed off they rushed him so hard through the junior formula. He obviously had talent, but like we see in NASCAR quite frequently, what do you expect when you rush a driver through the junior series
I agree as an American I would love to see him excel and be one of the greats. But at the moment I’m telling you he is embarrassing to watch, and to say that he represents our country as a Formula One driver. I don’t know whether it is rushing him through the ranks, or just the lack of skill or what, but he just doesn’t have IT at the moment.
@@kendrox0994 yeah everybody says talent this and talent that. verstappen didn't even do f2 and look at how well he performed in his rookie season. why can't logan replicate that?
@@no1washerezz Because Verstappens a different breed. Logan obviously has something about him, that's the reason why he's even in f1, Williams saw a chance in him. But not everyone can just do what verstappen does.
But is he talented enough? Life's unfair, and F1 is worse, so it doesn't matter whether or not he was ready to make the jump to F1, what matters is _he's getting what's likely to be his one and only shot,_ so he's got to figure out how to make it work.
@@aberamagold7509 vowels has gaven credit to Logan for basically matching albon in a less developed car I think he is indirectly saying he has shown enough potential for us to give him a second year to prove himself. A new car, new year, fresh start. If he doesn’t have anything to show by next year then I’d say they’d sack him at that point for sure
Some falter under the pressure of getting to the highest level of a sport and never end up making it despite looking so promising in the beginning. This will be the story of Logan.
I think Logan is struggling because Williams admitted they promoted him a year too early, and I think he is trying to prove to everyone and himself that he is good enough to belong
Which again should never be a choice in what's supposedly the pinnacle of motorsports... There are people better than both being sidelined year after year because they brought less funding or was somehow considered difficult to work with.
James Vowles has repeatedly said they plan on continuing to develop Sargeant since they know he was rushed a bit, so I don't know why everyone insists they are going to replace him with someone outside their development program or with someone who spent 3 years in Formula 2 before winning the championship Edit: 4 years to 3
Interesting comment regarding the development curve for new drivers ‘you won’t really be able to tell until midway through year 2’. Thus Liam Lawson being remotely competitive is then notable, and this is surely a good yardstick for Logan. Close the gap to Alex, keep the car intact, finish the race. Yuki was rubbish in his first 2 years with a few glimpses of his ability, but is seemingly strong enough now to command a seat. Sargeant will get better.
@@pokeboi5438 Piastri yes. Full development program with Alpine as a Reserve, then pre-season with McLaren. Lawson no. His prep has been geared to SF, not F1 .. and Logan had a full work up to F1 with Williams pre-season. Lawson had almost no Sim time in the AT, and just installation time prior to the season. Pretty remarkable effort.
@@Pedro285Super Formula is probably the closest category to F1 in terms of how the cars actually drive. That matters quite a bit considering how limited testing is for F1 these days.
Williams don't want Liam, Sargeant is from a family that is super wealthy and has the ability to bring in sponsors from the USA, Liam is just a driver. Also Williams was bought by an American company, I doubt they'd support removing the only American driver.
@@Septimus_iiyeah very true I wouldn’t either and I’ve supported Williams F1 since the Mansell days And especially with the freight train known as checko having questionable decisions He’s probably holding his breath for that seat
And yet they haven't offered him a contract yet and the season is almost over, literally every other seat bar his is locked down by contract at this point. If they really wanted him there, they would have finished a contract for another season with him by now. They're clearly looking around and exploring other options. They might end up taking Logan for another year after all, but it won't be because they want him so badly.
The problem is that there’s a lot of more talented and promising drivers behind, for example, Lawson, Pourchaire, Vesti. He is a very good f2 driver, but he never won the championship and that also proves that there are better options.
Lawson generally deserves a drive. Multiple good races (unlike Nyck De Vries, who had just one against latifi), and lets remember he knocked MV outta Q3, and has scored points.
@@Hashd0gg talent is there from Lawson and pourchaire but Logan is not as fast as the two that you mentioned; ultimately Williams is not going to sack him unless he underperforms again in 2024
@@Hashd0gg but Williams is also a hard car to drive for a rookie and his teammate is Albon who is more experienced and capable of extracting speed put of a nicely put package.... Hard to define who is better
i think Williams brought Logan into f1 too soon. also some drivers need a lot of hand holding to achieve their best performances. i think he will be capable given the right circumstances.
Ok tbf at Jeddah he would’ve had a time good enough for Q2 had he not crossed the pit lane at the end of the lap. Obviously he hasn’t been improving enough and binned it on the next lap, but I think it’s a bit more complicated than “no clean laps” at Jeddah
F1 had its fair share of what Murray Walker used to call “mobile chicanes” Andrea DeCesaris, Rene Arnoux, Eric Bernard, Emanuelle Pirro, Aguri Suzuki, Saturo Nakajima, Olivier Grouillard. To be fair to Arnoux, he wasn’t particularly slow however his tendency to trundle around in an uncompetitive Ligier and not use his mirrors and seemingly inability to move off the racing line tarred him with that brush, he was a reasonable Ferrari driver.
@@superchacho777 well it’s too late to ask Murray Walker but there is a famous piece of commentary (words to the effect of): MW “Arnoux said the reason I appear to drive slowly in todays Formula 1 cars is because I’m used to the turbo engines.” JH “I have only one thing to say to that, bull shit.” That commentary was broadcast and you can find it on YT. To address your point Arnoux was a reasonable driver at Ferrari and if you notice my OP you’ll see I say he wasn’t particularly slow knowing he had several wins for Ferrari. I don’t think he’s actually referencing the driver’s ability, it’s more about the cars lack of speed and their reluctance to use mirrors.
I'd love to see him get better, but it's hard to have a lot of sympathy when other rookies like Piastri and Lawson seem to be showing more promise. And Lawson doesn't have a seat at the moment.
@@Septimus_iiif you listen beyond the grid podcasts you can see the difference between them.Logan said he doesnt learn from Alex(he thinks he is good enough),while Oscar said he learns alot from Lando on amd off the track. Thats why Ocsar will be WC and logan will be forgoten this December.
He has potential, but the question is can Williams afford to surrender so much of their budget cap to rebuilding his car as they wait for him to develop.
By the end of 2021 Mazepin had cost HAAS $2.8 million in repair costs. Currently Sargent has cost Williams $3.8 million in repair costs and the season hasn't even finished yet.
He is fast, got into Q3 and kept up with Albon in Singapore. Rough around the edges in car control but to be expected given the limited exposure he has in F1. Another Season he deserves to prove himself.
I had high hopes for him, as an American myself. I was excited to see another American in F1. Pretty consistently disappointing performances and I feel embarassed for him. It's still no joke just to race in F1, so he deserves credit there
There is no such thing as a bad F1 driver, by comparison with the average driver they are all exceptionally talented it’s just that some are marginally better than others.
Half the problem is the fact that you have rookies like Piastri and Lawson performing as well as experienced drivers on the grid at the same time as Sergeant. We have to remember it’s actually normal for rookies to be pretty shabby in their first season and people like Piastri and Lawson are the abnormalities.
And yet, it's very rare I think for the best drivers to be this shabby in their first season. Yes, Yuki was all over the place but had blistering pace once in a while. Albon had pace and race craft but cracked later on, Leclerc was solid, Russell, too. So, yes, Sergabt may improve but I'd be surprised if he will ever reach their level. So, that's the question, really. Will they take the money and keep him 1-2 moe seasons and then let him go.
@@AntiVaganza fair point, I guess they’ll need to weigh up if his sponsorship money is worth more than the cost of rebuilding his car every time he drives it
Yes, I wouldn't be surprised if they have accountants doing exactly that;). Also, it's a real issue when a driver bins it as much as he does because it means the team may not get enough time/data to see if new parts are working as intended. Supposedly, his car is rarely at the lastest spec because he breaks parts so often which means direct comparisons in terms of setup with Albon is harder. At at time where the team is working on next year's car and concept this is far from ideal. I speculate that could really be bugging Wowles and the engineers. @@ewan5018
Will, James Vowles has stated several times that Logan is running an older Aero package than Albon. Which would kind of explains a lot of the problems Logan has been having with the car.
I think Albon is just a tough act to compare to. It’s not easy to get a good read on Sergeant and if they’re both gonna be teammates next year (which is all but confirmed at this point, I thought?) then we’ll never really understand just how good either of them are, only the difference between them. So Sergeant could actually be driving incredibly well for a rookie if that car’s really hard to drive, and yet Albon would still most likely make him look bad by just being fast. We might find out though if one of them gets injured in a crash and they get someone to step in, finally giving us something to compare either/both of them to.
I could honestly care less about Logan. American. Yes. Natural Talent. No. First off, the naturally gifted American drivers (Bell, Ty Gibbs, Byron) pursue NASCAR. It’s massively competitive from a very young age. Secondly, the very few naturally talented that don’t go Nascar like Kirkwood and Herta can’t get a bogus Super License.
Recently saw a graph showing how much Logan has cost the team in crashes over the year. It has increased SO much over the past few races - the pressure is clearly getting to him. He has talent, I think he’s just overdriving like crazy.
The thing with him not having fan support in the us is because there's no real US media covering F1. Watching F1 in the US means watching the Sky Sports broadcast (this is why you can make all the comments you want about Croft and others and your American followers aren't going "Who the hell is Crofty?"). And outside of that, there's not much. And Liberty Media is run by the sort of people who don't actually understand the issue there.
Its really a shame that the American drivers have mostly always failed once in F1. I remember watching a young Michael Andretti leave Indy and was cocky as heck and failed terribly in F1. Maybe one day we can produce someone who has the talent needed to compete with the best in the world! Logan isn't it. Getting closer to that 100k bud!!!
Unless the driver is a former F1 champion, I don't think that American F1 fans really care too much who is driving a specific car. Logan has no history yet that would gather an audience to care too much about his results. Being an American and driving in F1 isn't by itself a guarantee of a substantial following.
Something important to remember I think: Williams doesn't really have any replacements for Sargeant. They apparently don't like Schumacher, all their academy drivers are still in F3 (or are Jamie Chadwick), and hiring another rookie will just put them in the same position again without the year of training that Sargeant now has had. Even Lawson isn't an option: yes, he'd probably do a lot better than Sargeant, but he'd also be gone again in 2025, meaning that Williams will have essentially trained a driver for a direct rival and they would have to once again find a new inexperienced driver to fill that seat.
@@kikiv1993 Liam Lawson has been the reserve driver for Red Bull and has had numerous previous occasions before this year to drive an F1 car, had time in the F1 simulator, and has been working directly with an F1 team ON TOP of driving in Super Formula. Its not the same comparison
Well here’s a fact for you. In Lewis’s first five years in F1 he was called to the stewards room over 35 times for driving like a balloon. Google it and weep. That’s almost every other race Lewis crashed into someone or broke the rules. Sargent is like a virgin compared to Lewis “ my spine is broken from a bit of bouncing” Hamilton. 😂😂😂
Honestly he does not have much experience actually driving in races so maybe next year he can start to end races behind the finishing line. "One step at a time" and all that.
I can't remember who said it, but somebody pointed out that Logan was probably promoted from F2 too early. The argument could be made that he's inexperienced and just needs more time. It probably doesn't help that the other two rookies from this year have had memorable seasons, albeit for *very* different reasons (Oscar consistently keeping up with Lando and scoring his first podium in his rookie season, vs De Vries being kicked out for underperforming).
As an American I’d love for us to get a legit driver in there and we have plenty of them but the FIA super license structure makes so there is only really one way. Most of the best American drivers come up in a different system and the FIA basically gives half points for those drivers experience. Unless the family wants to move to Europe so their kid can come up in European karting so they can be shuttled into F4, F3, F2, etc. Which most wealthy Americans just aren’t interested in doing. The other issue is drivers need sponsors to get to F1 and there isn’t a big system for that here where corporations found value in F1 notoriety, until recently. Now that it’s mainstream in the states, you’ll see some well backed talented US drivers come in the next decade.
@@salamipitza Your lack of grammar matches your understanding of F1 as a business. Lawrence Stroll didn’t pumped $500M into A-M so Lancypants could be an unmitigated disaster. Your comment is foolish.
Williams wants to keep him next year...Part of his problem is that he is not driving the same car as Alex Albon...Albon's car is getting all the upgrades while Sargent has only about 1/2 of them at the moment...Driving 1/2 the car that your teammate has is bound to make you look bad, can't accelerate or corner the way Albon can at the moment...Williams knew what they were getting and figured he was worth spending the time and money on him to develop his skills...Sargent will get better...
Sink or swim and he needs to build really strong mental fortitude to not out drive the car. He has glimpses of speed. Lets give him another full season. Mick and goatifi got way more time.
I think there is a good argument to made for him to stay but at the same time the calendar is as big as ever has been. I think it might be enough time to evaluate but I'm not sure
Who cares what the drivers origin is he races for a British team. If the only reason they are keeping him, is because they think Americans will root for one of there own they should let him go. I’m an American and all the American’s I know that watch formula one are more of a brand follower then patriotic. If they want an America team it needs to be something like Ford.
He is under to mich pressure they should give him a signed him earlyer, so the pressure of driving next year isnt so much there, than the team should go little bit more easy on him, like james on the media, he never talks bad about him. Something steiner by haas and mick failed to do. But yeah if he had a seat for next year and little bit less pressure then they could watch if he gets better, and if not he has the next year where we know for sure. Look at mick and f2, halfway to his secound year (with the same car) he got way better, its a shame that mick got two years but not with the same car because f1 thought lets change the cars. A thing they should stop to do because yeah overtakimg is easyer but everytime the team get closer to eachother they change the rules and we have a runaway team again, it really doesnt matter if the cars couldnt follow as well, like 2021 the teams where so close we had good racing, 2022 we had good racing but one team runs away and when the others catch them the cars create again so mich dirty air that you cant follow. Ofc. Like nobody cared about the overtakimg thing, we all where pissed that micheal, sebastian and lewis just dominated the seasons. And f1 keeps creating Situations where one team runsaway for a couple of yrs. Change every year the rules slightly or just let it be. But this one big rule change thing when everyone gets close to eachother is stupid
i can assure you that the vast majority of americans couldnt care less about watching F1. Logan would have to beat max for the drivers championship for the american public at large to take notice of F1 lol
If Latifi was allowed to drive the Williams into pieces for 3 years in a row, then he is too. (Although i hope for him that he becomes more competitive and skilled over time)
You would think "the world" would understand that no one cares about an American driver who's never raced in America. If they want Americans to have interest because it's an American they need to grab someone like Newgarden or Herta.
As much as I think Logan probably just isn't destined to be an F1 driver, I do think it's fair to give him another year, assuming he's not financially impacting the team too badly given how often he wrecks the car. It took Mick a while to get used to the car (that year with Mazepin as his teammate probably did him no favors) and I think Haas were stupid to let him go and keep Magnussen just as Mick had started to outperform him. So I'm definitely sympathetic to giving a driver a fair chance. But with lots of talent waiting in the wings, like Liam Lawson, it can be hard to watch someone struggle the way Logan has.
Wow this has more comedy in it than the typical comedy reviews Jkjk keep up the great work Will I always try to remember to toss u a like on each video
Americans don't cheer you on just because you're an American. You also have to be good, and ideally, win. It's why no one in America (or frankly, anywhere, gives a shit about Hass). And one other thing. You know who Americans would cheer for? The extremely not America Alex Palou. Whom I don't understand isn't courted by teams like Williams, Hass, and Alfa Romeo.
They all have great junior careers thats how they get a seat but this guy is clearly not cut out for F1, there must be at least a handful of other drivers that would be better suited to F1
I feel like Sargeant is kind of the polar opposite result of someone like Zhou. Zhou entered F1 after finishing P3 in F2 and there were a lot of doubts as to whether or not he's good enough, especially given the money. Yet right now he's more or less an established driver already because of performances. And then there is Logan who kind of entered F1 in a similar way after ending P4 in F2. He had a point to prove just like Zhou, then blew it. I mean no one is probably expecting him to score as many points as Albon but at the very least a point will be good to lift his stock. I think Zandvoort's qualifying session just about sums up his career in F1. He'd have the speed then something happens that causes him to go back to square 1. I've always had some reservations about not including a driver who isn't an F2 champion or at least runner up like him, and it's kind of sad to see him make mistake after mistake. Personally I think the rookie excuse also fell through already when Liam got points in Singapore, I feel like Williams already looked at Lawson's performances in Singapore and Japan with some interest after their own driver had a mess in both those weekends. At the moment it just looks like he wasn't ready for F1 at all.
And he indeed isn't ready for F1. James already said it, his first running with a F1 car is the few FP1 sessions last year, he then drove in Bahrain testing, and then thrown into the deep end and expected to be the american Max Verstappen. He is the prime example of someome who is woefully unprepared and Williams knows this, thats why they are giving him the time and space he needs to grow.
@@junsengjs You enter F1 with the immediate expectation to perform and impress, not use it as another training ground. Feeder series and other racing categories and simulator work are there to serve that role. No one is expecting him to be a Max Verstappen, but all the same being a rookie doesn't mean he gets a free pass for crashing just because he's still growing. Estimates already put him as being the highest in terms of costing a team in damages. How does that factor into Williams' budget? All that money he's costing the team is money spent on repairs, not upgrades. Factor in the budget cap and there's a good case for trying to find a rookie that's able to keep their nose clean from the start.
Tbh I think he's not as bad as people seem to make it out to be, he's managed to out qualify Sergio Perez in a frontrunning RB six times now and even though he's likely to lose his seat to Sainz next year (unless another team offers a better spot) I don't think it would be the last we'd see of him in F1 if he continues to improve like he has done this season.
I think there are more than enough better options for that second seat. Besides, Williams banked on popularity and commercial income from the US. That did not happen either. So money is not really a reason to keep him either. Considering that RB will probably pay to get Lawson a seat, same for Merc and Fred Vesti
What family money? He literally couldn't promote to F2 because he ran out of money and had to repeat a year of F3. Williams picked him up after that year and funded his F2 season. Whatever wealth his family had, it sure isn't going into his career. His F2 car is notably barren of any personal sponsors just had the Williams livery with Williams sponsors.
@@junsengjs the lack of sponsors speaks for itself. He was paying to be there. Any series where a blank car is running means the money has to come from the driver, his family is worth BILLIONS. Look it up.
@@goodshipkaraboudjan What part of "Williams was funding his F2 season" did you not get? All that wealth clearly weren't going into his career, because the only reason he got into F2 was because Williams picked him up after his excellent performance in F3. Go look up Charouz's F3 results, Logan alone scored more points than all of their drivers past and present combined in that one season he was there. He scored their first F3 win and a few podiums.
I don't buy into the whole Americanizing F1 thing. Yes, we have three GPs in the US now (but that happened in the 80s as well). If anything, more thought has been put into designing and building the tracks they'll be driving on this year (compared to the Ceasar's Palace, Detroit, Dallas and Phoenix tracks). But let's not forget, the US is a huge market (330M people), so compared to the amount of races in Europe and it's size (750M people), three races is not all that much. Besides, if they really wanted to convenience the US market, there would be a lot of night races in Europe. I think it's more worrisome that we now have four races in countries like Bahrain, Saudi, Qatar and UAE. I'd gladly trade those four races for a single one at Indy.
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I see you made a decent grow spurt...just a few k to go.....
Logan's problem is his mental strength, in my opinion. Right now he is amplifying the pressure trying to outdrive the car, and himself.
He should be signed for next year... as the reserve driver (and get him back in F2 to rebuild confidence).
If he's not succeeding in F2, and not showing FP1 promise, it will tell Williams what they need to know.
actually not a bad idea
With each crash, his car becomes more inferior since Williams are running out of parts.
A few months back Logan was on the Beyond the Grid podcast and that was one of the takeaways I had gotten from the episode. He seems very timid, almost like the desire to fight just isn’t there and he’s just happy to be there. Like he’s missing that cutthroat, killer instinct mentality top tier athletes have.
At some point they were talking about Alex and he was asked if he’s been able to utilize him as a resource to learn from. He said that they don’t really talk like that. I kind of got the impression that Alex intimates him or that he’s too shy to to ask him for help.
This is the American way. Brute force your way through any problem
For now he has to stay. Lance Stroll need someone to chat with during the second half of the race.
oof
Fuck me that took a lot of effort not to spit out my drink laughing reading this one :D
Lance is still the last driver to get a podium in a Williams
Lance has Perez.
Stroll needs to go, not being able to finish in the top 10 in points which it’s looking like right now is completely unacceptable when your teammate was getting podiums and the maximum out of the car when it was competitive
He really does crumble under pressure. In Monza, he was overtaken by Bottas, but it wasn’t over because he still had the inside line. His engineer got on the phone to say “Come on you can get him back”, and Sargeant immediately choked and crashed into Bottas.
tbf something like that can be distracting
As an American I want him to succeed but jeez the amount of crashes and mistakes this man is made.
Ditto
As an American I’m pissed off they rushed him so hard through the junior formula. He obviously had talent, but like we see in NASCAR quite frequently, what do you expect when you rush a driver through the junior series
I agree as an American I would love to see him excel and be one of the greats. But at the moment I’m telling you he is embarrassing to watch, and to say that he represents our country as a Formula One driver. I don’t know whether it is rushing him through the ranks, or just the lack of skill or what, but he just doesn’t have IT at the moment.
@@kendrox0994 yeah everybody says talent this and talent that. verstappen didn't even do f2 and look at how well he performed in his rookie season. why can't logan replicate that?
@@no1washerezz Because Verstappens a different breed. Logan obviously has something about him, that's the reason why he's even in f1, Williams saw a chance in him. But not everyone can just do what verstappen does.
Logan will prove next year that he deserves a seat in F1.
This will either age horribly or fantastically
or it ages just fine and he improves a bit while lowering the amt of crashes
Last dude to sign for 2024 - I think he outty.
Just depends if his family cheques clear.
@@LivJust agreed, just stop destroying equipment
If he makes it to next year. 🤔
Everyone forgets that Logan went toe to toe with Oscar in f3. And he dragged that charouz up the charts last year. He is talented
But is he talented enough?
Life's unfair, and F1 is worse, so it doesn't matter whether or not he was ready to make the jump to F1, what matters is _he's getting what's likely to be his one and only shot,_ so he's got to figure out how to make it work.
@@aberamagold7509 vowels has gaven credit to Logan for basically matching albon in a less developed car I think he is indirectly saying he has shown enough potential for us to give him a second year to prove himself. A new car, new year, fresh start. If he doesn’t have anything to show by next year then I’d say they’d sack him at that point for sure
Everbody seems to forget that Lance stroll absultally smashed f3 back in 2016
Some falter under the pressure of getting to the highest level of a sport and never end up making it despite looking so promising in the beginning. This will be the story of Logan.
nope
all rookies (except mazepin) deserve 2 years.
I think Logan is struggling because Williams admitted they promoted him a year too early, and I think he is trying to prove to everyone and himself that he is good enough to belong
I'll take Logan Sargeant over Nikita Mazespin anyday of the week
Which again should never be a choice in what's supposedly the pinnacle of motorsports... There are people better than both being sidelined year after year because they brought less funding or was somehow considered difficult to work with.
James Vowles has repeatedly said they plan on continuing to develop Sargeant since they know he was rushed a bit, so I don't know why everyone insists they are going to replace him with someone outside their development program or with someone who spent 3 years in Formula 2 before winning the championship
Edit: 4 years to 3
It was 3 years💀
@@RdeCGamingmy bad, I'll correct it
_Colapinto would like a word..._
He just needs time he's a rookie still with not that much testing as Oscar
Tbf Logan still had 4 fp1 sessions
@@RdeCGamingso 4 hours of f1 experience?
@@ZacharyVidyasagar and a day and a half in Bahrain. Thats it. Thats nothing before being thrown on to the grid in a shitbox with terrible aero.
The season is almost over and nothing is improving, in f2 he wasn’t special either.
@@Tvl010nothing is improving is a laughable take, have you even listened to the team communication or looked at the lap data?
Interesting comment regarding the development curve for new drivers ‘you won’t really be able to tell until midway through year 2’.
Thus Liam Lawson being remotely competitive is then notable, and this is surely a good yardstick for Logan. Close the gap to Alex, keep the car intact, finish the race.
Yuki was rubbish in his first 2 years with a few glimpses of his ability, but is seemingly strong enough now to command a seat.
Sargeant will get better.
Lawson and Piastri are both showing real potential in their first years. I don't know that we can hold that against the other rookie drivers though.
Lawson and Piastri have also had far more extensive testing programs making them far more prepared
@@pokeboi5438 Piastri yes. Full development program with Alpine as a Reserve, then pre-season with McLaren.
Lawson no. His prep has been geared to SF, not F1 .. and Logan had a full work up to F1 with Williams pre-season.
Lawson had almost no Sim time in the AT, and just installation time prior to the season. Pretty remarkable effort.
@@Pedro285Super Formula is probably the closest category to F1 in terms of how the cars actually drive. That matters quite a bit considering how limited testing is for F1 these days.
Yuki wasn't rubbish in 2022, way closer to Gasly.
If Lawson wasn't on the sidelines, I would've supported retaining Sargeant.
As it is, Lawson is. And he has proven he deserves a seat.
It depends whether he's willing to give up on the Red Bull family. I reckon he probably isn't yet.
Williams don't want Liam, Sargeant is from a family that is super wealthy and has the ability to bring in sponsors from the USA, Liam is just a driver. Also Williams was bought by an American company, I doubt they'd support removing the only American driver.
@@Septimus_iiI can confirm from Lawson's words and with Alphatauri retaining him still he isn't likely to put on loan to Williams.
@@RBMapleLeaf I also think that RB want to retain him in case they swap out Perez
@@Septimus_iiyeah very true I wouldn’t either and I’ve supported Williams F1 since the Mansell days
And especially with the freight train known as checko having questionable decisions
He’s probably holding his breath for that seat
'We want him in the car next year' - Vowles says Williams want Sargeant 'to succeed' at the team
"We want the money"
@@goodshipkaraboudjando they get a premium for retaining him?
@@patrickwontor2061 his family money is the only reason he is there
@@goodshipkaraboudjan had no idea, thanks
And yet they haven't offered him a contract yet and the season is almost over, literally every other seat bar his is locked down by contract at this point. If they really wanted him there, they would have finished a contract for another season with him by now. They're clearly looking around and exploring other options. They might end up taking Logan for another year after all, but it won't be because they want him so badly.
The problem is that there’s a lot of more talented and promising drivers behind, for example, Lawson, Pourchaire, Vesti. He is a very good f2 driver, but he never won the championship and that also proves that there are better options.
Lawson generally deserves a drive. Multiple good races (unlike Nyck De Vries, who had just one against latifi), and lets remember he knocked MV outta Q3, and has scored points.
@@BLENDITE Albon is a terrible teammate to be used as a benchmark..
lawson and pourchaire havent won the championship, what makes them different?
@@Hashd0gg talent is there from Lawson and pourchaire but Logan is not as fast as the two that you mentioned; ultimately Williams is not going to sack him unless he underperforms again in 2024
@@Hashd0gg but Williams is also a hard car to drive for a rookie and his teammate is Albon who is more experienced and capable of extracting speed put of a nicely put package.... Hard to define who is better
i think Williams brought Logan into f1 too soon. also some drivers need a lot of hand holding to achieve their best performances. i think he will be capable given the right circumstances.
Williams even admitted they brought him in too early
Ok tbf at Jeddah he would’ve had a time good enough for Q2 had he not crossed the pit lane at the end of the lap. Obviously he hasn’t been improving enough and binned it on the next lap, but I think it’s a bit more complicated than “no clean laps” at Jeddah
F1 had its fair share of what Murray Walker used to call “mobile chicanes” Andrea DeCesaris, Rene Arnoux, Eric Bernard, Emanuelle Pirro, Aguri Suzuki, Saturo Nakajima, Olivier Grouillard. To be fair to Arnoux, he wasn’t particularly slow however his tendency to trundle around in an uncompetitive Ligier and not use his mirrors and seemingly inability to move off the racing line tarred him with that brush, he was a reasonable Ferrari driver.
Rene Arnoux?
He won 7 races and got 22 podiums how in the hell is he a mobile chicane
@@superchacho777 well it’s too late to ask Murray Walker but there is a famous piece of commentary (words to the effect of):
MW “Arnoux said the reason I appear to drive slowly in todays Formula 1 cars is because I’m used to the turbo engines.”
JH “I have only one thing to say to that, bull shit.” That commentary was broadcast and you can find it on YT.
To address your point Arnoux was a reasonable driver at Ferrari and if you notice my OP you’ll see I say he wasn’t particularly slow knowing he had several wins for Ferrari. I don’t think he’s actually referencing the driver’s ability, it’s more about the cars lack of speed and their reluctance to use mirrors.
Maybe he just needs to learn the kilometer unit.
If you are going to seat a Rookie, you gotta accept the Risk. Don't forget, Merc left Russel out for another year to gain experience. It worked.
I'd love to see him get better, but it's hard to have a lot of sympathy when other rookies like Piastri and Lawson seem to be showing more promise. And Lawson doesn't have a seat at the moment.
I think Piastri, and maybe Lawson, are more the exception than the rule. They've both been superb right out of the gate
@@Septimus_iiif you listen beyond the grid podcasts you can see the difference between them.Logan said he doesnt learn from Alex(he thinks he is good enough),while Oscar said he learns alot from Lando on amd off the track.
Thats why Ocsar will be WC and logan will be forgoten this December.
@@Septimus_ii Piastri is in another league, Formula Renault, F3 & F2 championships in consecutive seasons and he is the same age as Sargeant
He seems to be able to give some good performances but I do think he needs to mature mentally to not be overwhelmed by just the fact he's in F1.
He has potential, but the question is can Williams afford to surrender so much of their budget cap to rebuilding his car as they wait for him to develop.
By the end of 2021 Mazepin had cost HAAS $2.8 million in repair costs.
Currently Sargent has cost Williams $3.8 million in repair costs and the season hasn't even finished yet.
You know you're shit when you have caused more damage than MAZEPIN.
I think it's worth giving him another year. But if he fails, I hope he can find a ride in indycar or imsa gtp.
NASCAR
He is fast, got into Q3 and kept up with Albon in Singapore. Rough around the edges in car control but to be expected given the limited exposure he has in F1. Another Season he deserves to prove himself.
LOL Fast? Hes literally last all the time
I had high hopes for him, as an American myself. I was excited to see another American in F1. Pretty consistently disappointing performances and I feel embarassed for him. It's still no joke just to race in F1, so he deserves credit there
There is no such thing as a bad F1 driver, by comparison with the average driver they are all exceptionally talented it’s just that some are marginally better than others.
You can be a great driver and still be a bad F1 driver.
I think rookies need to be given at least 2 years. Bottas have been quite disappointing for 2 years now, nobody is saying he should move on.
Half the problem is the fact that you have rookies like Piastri and Lawson performing as well as experienced drivers on the grid at the same time as Sergeant. We have to remember it’s actually normal for rookies to be pretty shabby in their first season and people like Piastri and Lawson are the abnormalities.
And yet, it's very rare I think for the best drivers to be this shabby in their first season. Yes, Yuki was all over the place but had blistering pace once in a while. Albon had pace and race craft but cracked later on, Leclerc was solid, Russell, too. So, yes, Sergabt may improve but I'd be surprised if he will ever reach their level. So, that's the question, really. Will they take the money and keep him 1-2 moe seasons and then let him go.
@@AntiVaganza fair point, I guess they’ll need to weigh up if his sponsorship money is worth more than the cost of rebuilding his car every time he drives it
Yes, I wouldn't be surprised if they have accountants doing exactly that;).
Also, it's a real issue when a driver bins it as much as he does because it means the team may not get enough time/data to see if new parts are working as intended. Supposedly, his car is rarely at the lastest spec because he breaks parts so often which means direct comparisons in terms of setup with Albon is harder.
At at time where the team is working on next year's car and concept this is far from ideal. I speculate that could really be bugging Wowles and the engineers. @@ewan5018
As American I don’t care about Logan
Update, He's P3 in FP3 on Las Vegas
F1 doesn't want a winning American driver. They want the money, not the competition; otherwise, Andretti would already have a team.
Will, James Vowles has stated several times that Logan is running an older Aero package than Albon. Which would kind of explains a lot of the problems Logan has been having with the car.
Because he keeps breaking them.
I think Albon is just a tough act to compare to. It’s not easy to get a good read on Sergeant and if they’re both gonna be teammates next year (which is all but confirmed at this point, I thought?) then we’ll never really understand just how good either of them are, only the difference between them. So Sergeant could actually be driving incredibly well for a rookie if that car’s really hard to drive, and yet Albon would still most likely make him look bad by just being fast.
We might find out though if one of them gets injured in a crash and they get someone to step in, finally giving us something to compare either/both of them to.
I could honestly care less about Logan. American. Yes. Natural Talent. No.
First off, the naturally gifted American drivers (Bell, Ty Gibbs, Byron) pursue NASCAR. It’s massively competitive from a very young age.
Secondly, the very few naturally talented that don’t go Nascar like Kirkwood and Herta can’t get a bogus Super License.
Fax I can list a couple indy drivers that I feel will do good in F1 if given the right time/ circumstances
Recently saw a graph showing how much Logan has cost the team in crashes over the year. It has increased SO much over the past few races - the pressure is clearly getting to him. He has talent, I think he’s just overdriving like crazy.
The thing with him not having fan support in the us is because there's no real US media covering F1. Watching F1 in the US means watching the Sky Sports broadcast (this is why you can make all the comments you want about Croft and others and your American followers aren't going "Who the hell is Crofty?"). And outside of that, there's not much. And Liberty Media is run by the sort of people who don't actually understand the issue there.
Its really a shame that the American drivers have mostly always failed once in F1. I remember watching a young Michael Andretti leave Indy and was cocky as heck and failed terribly in F1. Maybe one day we can produce someone who has the talent needed to compete with the best in the world! Logan isn't it. Getting closer to that 100k bud!!!
I'm sure you have produced drivers of that calibre, but most of them don't want/get a chance in F1
Phil Hill, Dan Gurney and Mario Andretti all say hello. The first and last both being World Champions.
@@simonkevnorris And Dan's fabulous AAR Eagle was the first American-built car to win an F1 race!
@@Septimus_ii There has already been a champion from the USA, we know we've got the same capabilities as everyone else.
2 and how long ago was that?@@simonkevnorris
I genuinely don’t think he is that bad. There is just no Mazepin or Latifi to compare to him. Every driver on the grid deserves to be there
Unless the driver is a former F1 champion, I don't think that American F1 fans really care too much who is driving a specific car. Logan has no history yet that would gather an audience to care too much about his results. Being an American and driving in F1 isn't by itself a guarantee of a substantial following.
Literally fallen asleep during the last 2 F1 races they really just ain’t as exciting as IndyCar races with cars like the red bulls always winning
Things like finishing your first race getting the 2.5 second treatment makes this feel kind of harsh.
This is not automatic in formula 1.
Something important to remember I think: Williams doesn't really have any replacements for Sargeant. They apparently don't like Schumacher, all their academy drivers are still in F3 (or are Jamie Chadwick), and hiring another rookie will just put them in the same position again without the year of training that Sargeant now has had. Even Lawson isn't an option: yes, he'd probably do a lot better than Sargeant, but he'd also be gone again in 2025, meaning that Williams will have essentially trained a driver for a direct rival and they would have to once again find a new inexperienced driver to fill that seat.
Man got thrown into F1 with no prior experience unlike the other “rookies” on the track. He deserves another year.
Liam Lawson has only completed 4 races and he is better than Sergeant. And Alpha Tauri is a worse car than Williams.
@@kikiv1993 Liam Lawson has been the reserve driver for Red Bull and has had numerous previous occasions before this year to drive an F1 car, had time in the F1 simulator, and has been working directly with an F1 team ON TOP of driving in Super Formula. Its not the same comparison
Chip Ganassi says it perfectly as to the attitude of America, he/we like winners.
Nice toutch, the use of the Lollypopman comics theme in the back ground.
Atleast he's been in Q2 and Q3, unlike Mazepin
I blame the team on this one, he is a good driver and he was thron into the jumpseat and said here you go, no chance to go well.
😂😂😂😂 clown
Well here’s a fact for you. In Lewis’s first five years in F1 he was called to the stewards room over 35 times for driving like a balloon. Google it and weep. That’s almost every other race Lewis crashed into someone or broke the rules. Sargent is like a virgin compared to Lewis “ my spine is broken from a bit of bouncing” Hamilton. 😂😂😂
Honestly he does not have much experience actually driving in races so maybe next year he can start to end races behind the finishing line.
"One step at a time" and all that.
I can't remember who said it, but somebody pointed out that Logan was probably promoted from F2 too early. The argument could be made that he's inexperienced and just needs more time. It probably doesn't help that the other two rookies from this year have had memorable seasons, albeit for *very* different reasons (Oscar consistently keeping up with Lando and scoring his first podium in his rookie season, vs De Vries being kicked out for underperforming).
Bro is the American Latiffi without the 30m backing let's be entirely honest here
Bro rockin the deus ex - unatco theme in an F1 video.
Respect 👍👀
The lack of proper testing that drivers enjoyed up to the early 2000s is cruel.
Well he certainly isn't the worst. Always remember Mazepin and Stroll. He's not championship material, but I think he has potential.
As an American I’d love for us to get a legit driver in there and we have plenty of them but the FIA super license structure makes so there is only really one way.
Most of the best American drivers come up in a different system and the FIA basically gives half points for those drivers experience.
Unless the family wants to move to Europe so their kid can come up in European karting so they can be shuttled into F4, F3, F2, etc. Which most wealthy Americans just aren’t interested in doing.
The other issue is drivers need sponsors to get to F1 and there isn’t a big system for that here where corporations found value in F1 notoriety, until recently.
Now that it’s mainstream in the states, you’ll see some well backed talented US drivers come in the next decade.
Logan deserves that spot in Williams
Sargeant has got to go. I’ll be baffled if he gets a contract for next year.
Lance Stroll Is Comedy (Au) tistic.
stroll has the aston seat as long as he wants it to have
@@salamipitza Your lack of grammar matches your understanding of F1 as a business. Lawrence Stroll didn’t pumped $500M into A-M so Lancypants could be an unmitigated disaster. Your comment is foolish.
Williams wants to keep him next year...Part of his problem is that he is not driving the same car as Alex Albon...Albon's car is getting all the upgrades while Sargent has only about 1/2 of them at the moment...Driving 1/2 the car that your teammate has is bound to make you look bad, can't accelerate or corner the way Albon can at the moment...Williams knew what they were getting and figured he was worth spending the time and money on him to develop his skills...Sargent will get better...
Sink or swim and he needs to build really strong mental fortitude to not out drive the car. He has glimpses of speed. Lets give him another full season. Mick and goatifi got way more time.
He isn’t even bad. Everyone is just jumping on the bandwagon trying to make him a meme.
what is the song at the start
After a lot of research: Deus Ex Soundtrack - UNATCO
I think there is a good argument to made for him to stay but at the same time the calendar is as big as ever has been. I think it might be enough time to evaluate but I'm not sure
Who cares what the drivers origin is he races for a British team. If the only reason they are keeping him, is because they think Americans will root for one of there own they should let him go. I’m an American and all the American’s I know that watch formula one are more of a brand follower then patriotic. If they want an America team it needs to be something like Ford.
With red flags and SC for just about any reason you won't sell to the Americans...
He is under to mich pressure they should give him a signed him earlyer, so the pressure of driving next year isnt so much there, than the team should go little bit more easy on him, like james on the media, he never talks bad about him. Something steiner by haas and mick failed to do. But yeah if he had a seat for next year and little bit less pressure then they could watch if he gets better, and if not he has the next year where we know for sure. Look at mick and f2, halfway to his secound year (with the same car) he got way better, its a shame that mick got two years but not with the same car because f1 thought lets change the cars. A thing they should stop to do because yeah overtakimg is easyer but everytime the team get closer to eachother they change the rules and we have a runaway team again, it really doesnt matter if the cars couldnt follow as well, like 2021 the teams where so close we had good racing, 2022 we had good racing but one team runs away and when the others catch them the cars create again so mich dirty air that you cant follow. Ofc. Like nobody cared about the overtakimg thing, we all where pissed that micheal, sebastian and lewis just dominated the seasons. And f1 keeps creating Situations where one team runsaway for a couple of yrs. Change every year the rules slightly or just let it be. But this one big rule change thing when everyone gets close to eachother is stupid
Albon is doing good in the Williams but I'm guessing it's still pretty tough to be competitive. How would Sargeant do in another car?
i can assure you that the vast majority of americans couldnt care less about watching F1. Logan would have to beat max for the drivers championship for the american public at large to take notice of F1 lol
The Smash Bros music in the background distracted me so much watching this lol
If Latifi was allowed to drive the Williams into pieces for 3 years in a row, then he is too. (Although i hope for him that he becomes more competitive and skilled over time)
You would think "the world" would understand that no one cares about an American driver who's never raced in America. If they want Americans to have interest because it's an American they need to grab someone like Newgarden or Herta.
Just the problem that Newgarden is allready 32 years old and Herta was not good at all in the last 2 years.
@@hanswurst6712 I mostly agree on both.
I know he’s one of the only Americans in a while to even make it to F1 but his crashes are too consistent
It's ridiculous that the super license system refused to recognise Colton Herta when AT were looking at him. He's far more talented than Sargeant.
I think some people forget that in the US we have to wake up at 5-6 am to watch the race
A real F1 fan will watch at whatever time it is on at.
woo hoo cry about it
or just buy a tv recorder
As much as I think Logan probably just isn't destined to be an F1 driver, I do think it's fair to give him another year, assuming he's not financially impacting the team too badly given how often he wrecks the car. It took Mick a while to get used to the car (that year with Mazepin as his teammate probably did him no favors) and I think Haas were stupid to let him go and keep Magnussen just as Mick had started to outperform him. So I'm definitely sympathetic to giving a driver a fair chance.
But with lots of talent waiting in the wings, like Liam Lawson, it can be hard to watch someone struggle the way Logan has.
As an American I was hopeful he would drive well, while knowing full well he wouldn’t
Wow this has more comedy in it than the typical comedy reviews
Jkjk keep up the great work Will I always try to remember to toss u a like on each video
Remember that this is the same F1 that is hellbent not to let Andretti in who also wants to field in the likes of Colton Herta or Kyle Kirkwood.
The FIA also knocked back Herta when AT were looking at him.
thats lit every team except mclaren. mclaren is the only team that supports andretti. toto is hell bent on it, haas as been a big opponent as wel
Sargent climbed too fast from private it seems.
Americans don't cheer you on just because you're an American. You also have to be good, and ideally, win.
It's why no one in America (or frankly, anywhere, gives a shit about Hass).
And one other thing. You know who Americans would cheer for?
The extremely not America Alex Palou. Whom I don't understand isn't courted by teams like Williams, Hass, and Alfa Romeo.
His car commited sepuku 😂😂😂😂 bro you are killing me.
Smash bros music in my F1 content?? YES PLEASE
Sargeant deserve one more year, if nothing changes, then we move on
He's not that bad. There have been some majestically awful drivers in F1.....and Sargent isn't one of them.
They all have great junior careers thats how they get a seat but this guy is clearly not cut out for F1, there must be at least a handful of other drivers that would be better suited to F1
I feel like Sargeant is kind of the polar opposite result of someone like Zhou. Zhou entered F1 after finishing P3 in F2 and there were a lot of doubts as to whether or not he's good enough, especially given the money. Yet right now he's more or less an established driver already because of performances. And then there is Logan who kind of entered F1 in a similar way after ending P4 in F2. He had a point to prove just like Zhou, then blew it. I mean no one is probably expecting him to score as many points as Albon but at the very least a point will be good to lift his stock.
I think Zandvoort's qualifying session just about sums up his career in F1. He'd have the speed then something happens that causes him to go back to square 1. I've always had some reservations about not including a driver who isn't an F2 champion or at least runner up like him, and it's kind of sad to see him make mistake after mistake. Personally I think the rookie excuse also fell through already when Liam got points in Singapore, I feel like Williams already looked at Lawson's performances in Singapore and Japan with some interest after their own driver had a mess in both those weekends. At the moment it just looks like he wasn't ready for F1 at all.
And he indeed isn't ready for F1.
James already said it, his first running with a F1 car is the few FP1 sessions last year, he then drove in Bahrain testing, and then thrown into the deep end and expected to be the american Max Verstappen.
He is the prime example of someome who is woefully unprepared and Williams knows this, thats why they are giving him the time and space he needs to grow.
@@junsengjs You enter F1 with the immediate expectation to perform and impress, not use it as another training ground. Feeder series and other racing categories and simulator work are there to serve that role. No one is expecting him to be a Max Verstappen, but all the same being a rookie doesn't mean he gets a free pass for crashing just because he's still growing.
Estimates already put him as being the highest in terms of costing a team in damages. How does that factor into Williams' budget? All that money he's costing the team is money spent on repairs, not upgrades. Factor in the budget cap and there's a good case for trying to find a rookie that's able to keep their nose clean from the start.
Williams second driver is always prone to crash/bad since 2018 with Sergey except Robert he's literally driving with 1 hand I don't blame him
Don’t think I didn’t hear those Deus Ex audio references you cheeky minx
Tbh I think he's not as bad as people seem to make it out to be, he's managed to out qualify Sergio Perez in a frontrunning RB six times now and even though he's likely to lose his seat to Sainz next year (unless another team offers a better spot) I don't think it would be the last we'd see of him in F1 if he continues to improve like he has done this season.
Perez is bad at qualy, logan has 30-0 with albon
UNATCO theme goes hard will
Thanks mate 🙂
I think there are more than enough better options for that second seat. Besides, Williams banked on popularity and commercial income from the US. That did not happen either. So money is not really a reason to keep him either. Considering that RB will probably pay to get Lawson a seat, same for Merc and Fred Vesti
There are lots of better options but none with the family money he has behind him.
What family money? He literally couldn't promote to F2 because he ran out of money and had to repeat a year of F3. Williams picked him up after that year and funded his F2 season.
Whatever wealth his family had, it sure isn't going into his career. His F2 car is notably barren of any personal sponsors just had the Williams livery with Williams sponsors.
@@junsengjs the lack of sponsors speaks for itself. He was paying to be there. Any series where a blank car is running means the money has to come from the driver, his family is worth BILLIONS. Look it up.
@@goodshipkaraboudjan What part of "Williams was funding his F2 season" did you not get? All that wealth clearly weren't going into his career, because the only reason he got into F2 was because Williams picked him up after his excellent performance in F3.
Go look up Charouz's F3 results, Logan alone scored more points than all of their drivers past and present combined in that one season he was there. He scored their first F3 win and a few podiums.
@@junsengjs I'm guessing Netflix brought you to motorsports. Not saying he isn't talented, he is just there because of money. He's the new Sirotkin.
Choosing to be car #2 was a bold choice...
4:40 a red what now?
Mazepin being kicked out of F1 raised levels US interest in the sport?
I don't buy into the whole Americanizing F1 thing. Yes, we have three GPs in the US now (but that happened in the 80s as well). If anything, more thought has been put into designing and building the tracks they'll be driving on this year (compared to the Ceasar's Palace, Detroit, Dallas and Phoenix tracks). But let's not forget, the US is a huge market (330M people), so compared to the amount of races in Europe and it's size (750M people), three races is not all that much. Besides, if they really wanted to convenience the US market, there would be a lot of night races in Europe. I think it's more worrisome that we now have four races in countries like Bahrain, Saudi, Qatar and UAE. I'd gladly trade those four races for a single one at Indy.
At least Williams didn't sign Sting Ray Robb...
"I live my life a quarter mile at a time" - Logan Sargeant
Stroll is on his seventh rookie season, so its early days.