Tyres and wax for sure. Socks I would never have guessed in my life. My first foray in latex lasted 30 kilometres with a tube stem failure resulting in a near crash. The bike shop said that happens sometimes with some rims and well, bad luck. I want to like them from what others say. Aside from that you surprised me crediting others which shows a lot of respect. Thanks again for your insights again Josh.
Rick, yes, latex takes some extra care in the setup, rim tape and installation, but is certainly worth it in the long run, for the feel alone , I'd say worth it, and when you factor in the efficiency, even more so!! Yes, the socks were a real eye opener for me.. we literally re-ran the tunnel test as I was SURE something was broken the first time I saw it! There will be a couple more of these examples in future Top 5 episodes, all very fun. Thanks for watching and please share us with your riding partners! - Josh
I just "found" your channel and thought it was really good. Then I read all your answers to questions. This channel is best. I really appreciate that you offer alternate brands, and it is not all about sales. I don't even know where to find Silca around here.
Great video thanks. Aero socks for Ironman have to make sense. I’ve always gone without socks but put running socks on after the bike. From now on I’ll put aero socks on for the bike and leave them on for the run. That way I lose no “changing” time but gain the aero advantage. I’m still struggling to understand the marginal gain of the bar tape though? I get the comfort but what am I missing?
Good luck trying to put on aero socks when your feet are wet... They are so tight, you need to remove every microgram of water from the feet before you manage to slide them. And even then, they take forever to put on. I don't know if it might still be a win, but I would expect several *minutes* of extra time at T1.
@@luc4662 I just did Ironman Kazakstan and used Silca aero socks. Knitted socks and instantly pull on, no delay. 2nd in AG and qualified for the worlds so I’ll take it as a win. Might have more to do with the silly amount of training I did though. Hahaha
Great video, I could watch this sort of thing all day. Couple of questions for you: 1. Aero socks seem like a no brainer to me, but why don't pro triathletes wear them? There's no rules from UCI and the gains extrapolated to an ironman must be minutes rather than seconds - easily offsetting the 20 sec it takes them to put them on. 2. How important are shoe aerodynamics and which models are good to look at? 3. OK so it's three questions, do any overshoe companies incorporate the ribs on the calf for similar gains?
@@anhduytran7981 yep, I wear socks during triathlons. If you turn them 75% inside out pre race and then in T1 you can just poke your toe in and then "milk" the sock onto your foot and lower leg and its a walk in the park, you never have to slide the material over wet skin. With standard cotton socks it takes about 5 sec per foot.
You don't attempt to patch either during a ride. Glue less patches will get you home but don't stretch with the tube and fail. Once glue less is on, regular patch won't stick anymore! Traffic and wind noise make finding leaks harder. You can't use CO2 cartridge to find leaks either!
Great list! Would love to try your chain wax products. Well fitting aero jersey is another I would say. 10-20 watts there over a looser fitting one. Doesn't have to cost that much either.
Great video Josh. Long time fan of your work and reader of your top input on Slowtwitch. A few questions: 1. How does the Wipperman Connex chain compare to the Dura Ace 9100? I'm a DA fan, but heard good things on the Connex. 2. Where would a cronically under-waxed, or completely bare chain sit in terms of wattage losses at, say, 250w rider output? 3. It not an 'upgrade' or strictly UCI legal perhaps, but what about adding silicone sealant to the tire/rim interface 'crack' to smooth out the airflow? Could easily be removed? Surely a big saving, especially if interface isn't neat beforehand...? 4. My addition would be aero skewers... but not great for wheel changes.
Ok if there isn't a team car following you. Pinhead skewers more aero than standard. Delta far cheaper. Like to go fast but no team car will ever follow me!
1.The Wipperman is a really beautiful and amazing piece of kit. I use Wipperman quick links on all my chains, but the DA chain shifts a bit better and runs about 0.6 watt faster. 2.A waxed DA chain can run sub 4 watt loss on 250 and a chain with White Lightning dry lube can run at 12w+ loss after just an hour of riding it. A squeaky dry chain will run at 15+ watts of loss depending on what it had been lubed within initially and how much is left, and a totally dry, stripped chain will run at 25+ watts of loss! 3. Silicone can work and we used to do it for key events like the TdF way back in the day. To really work properly, the tire/rim widths have to be equal or better, obey the rule of 105.. unfortunately, this also adds Crr to the system which can offset some of the gains if not all of them. 4. This is a great one for TT or if you have a team follow car!
I know latex is more efficient but I converted to TPU on size alone. I can fit 2 spare TPUs in the same space as a single latex or butyl tube. And if I only carry 1 spare, that's extra space I can use for my car keys or a tube of sunscreen or something similar size.
Hey Josh, what about a video on hubs and hub bearings? I have some Chris King hubs that I tear down 1-2x a year to clean and lube and man these things feel like they roll so fast compared to other wheel-sets of mine where I've never replaced the bearings. I would love to see some data though...hub mfg, design, freewheel efficiency, bearings, etc. I think new wheel bearings would fall into your
We are working on a show about bearing losses now, but your specific situation is a little bit real and a little bit placebo! So the total losses from a subset are at most a couple of watts.. which is why at best, ceramic bearings can save about 0.8 watts when compared to REALLY poor hub bearings. So you King hubs probably absorb 2-3 watts at baseline and as they get dirty drift up to maybe 3-4 watts, but the clutch mechanism is much more sensitive.. it might absorb 3-5 watts when coasting and then when dry or dirty as much as 7-8 watts.. so cleaning and regressing the clutch can make a really notable difference in feel. To put all of it in perspective though, removing ALL hub frictional losses combined is only about equivalent from moving from a Continental Gatorskin to a GP5000 rear tire.. and moving from butyl to latex inner tube in a rear tire is similar to elminating ALL hub bearing drag.. so the placebo piece of this is the sound. Whenever I rebuild my hubs or BB, I feel exactly the same way.. the sound just makes you feel so unbelievably fast! - Josh
Have you ever tested anything regarding wheel balancing? The only bike related thing with numbers I could finde was from ride now, and that was a ca. 20 sec video without any explanation ^^ i would really love to get more insight, as it is fairly easy to do a fine balancing job with golf club wheigts
Great insights Josh. Love the new drip chain wax. Questions: can you or anyone comment on the expected life of an 11 speed Dura Ace chain v. Ultegra? In my case, recreational road riding in varied weather conditions. Rest of drivetrain is like new. Thank you!
hmm..about that chain. One could learn a lot by testing the Rockwell hardnes of the plates & pins and figurinig out what the metal finish is for the pins and plates. I think about all the things I've seen precision machinists do and I think mabye Shimano's manufacturing process allows for better surface finish and or special coating that afffects the side-plate to aluminum interface of the chainring. The Ceramicspeed dudes were claiming significant improvement in efficiency using a factory-applied (PTFE?) coating which would last 500 miles. They claimed they were supplying to several pro teams a while back (don't know if that's still true). I'm using parafin mixed with PTFE powder on my chains but I'm not a racer and don't have any way to test it. A long while back Campagnolo had a video of their chain assembly machines in action.
Great video thanks Josh- What's you opinion in regards to the best rubber to pick for a 650c wheels. I have a Zipp 2001 on 650 wheels and I am running short of options. Cheers
Try Shimano 12 speed chain on 11sp. drivetrain. You would be astounded, but first I recommend to read the thread on Weight Weeenies about it. Ur drivetrain will be totally silent, same shifting and longer chain life, combined with SILCA secret chain lube, total silence. Try it you won’t regret it
Question about chains. Do chains work more efficiently (saving watts) if the chainring, cassette and chain are all of the same make? Or, does mixing makes not have any effect?
You recommend the Nastro handlebar tape, but not the specific model. You show a roll of Cuscino which seems to be the pick of the Tour magazine you referenced. Can I expect the same from the Fiore or Piloti or should I get the ESI to get the color I want?
For our tape lineup, we have different texture and thickness for each model, but all are made from the same exotic foam and TPU which is incredibly cushioning while being low damping (foam developed for NIKE 2 hour marathon shoes..) and the TPU top later is the same stuff you find in Oakley nose and earpieces, so very soft with almost equivalent wet/dry grip.. so between models you are just getting a different thickness and look, but same tech
Sorry if this sounds weird, but I am so curious why doesn't hair on the legs "trip" the air in the same way aero socks create micro turbulence to keep the air around the leg for longer and a wake with less drag, yet shaving the legs in your other video was one of the free marginal gains?
It's all about boundary layer thickness and location of the trip zone. For flow on the lower leg, the boundary layer thickness for tripping is about 1mm, and you only need it right in the separation zone, so with hairy legs you have ~1cm long hair everywhere making a big mess of the airflow. Theoretically you could leave 2 thin stripes of leg hair at ~+/-40 degrees of the center of the shin, and then keep those stripes trimes to ~1-2mm max and have a similar effect to aero socks.
Thanks for puting such a great video together, for those of us still on a 10 speed drive train, have you had the opportunity to test a dura ace chain in 10S ? If so what does the data says in terms of Watt gains? ⏩⏩⏩
Josh I love all your science and deconstruction on these marginal gains fronts. You have made me a fan of chains, lubes, and tubes brother. ✊🏾 🚴🏾♂️,,,...
Considering that latex tubes are more resistant to puncture flats and pinch flats than butyl tubes, it will always faster to run the latex tube. They can also be run with sealant in them for key events and will seal better when used with sealant than a butyl tube used with sealant. Really the only downside of latex tubes is that they take considerably more care when installing as they are so easy to pinch between the rim and tire, and also require nicely fitted rim tape as they can really get into all the little nooks and crannies otherwise. But overall, 5 extra minutes installing at the outset will pay dividends for years afterwards.
Is there a psi point where tubeless (and in particular sealant) is no longer as effective, and that latex should be the go to for better road feel? Based on my weight and tire size (roughly 28mm measured), I should be riding somewhere between 80-85 psi. How much less effective is sealant as this pressure? I’m trying out tubeless, and while the installation has been pain free, I’m dreading having a puncture that doesn’t seal and having a messy tube installation.
single large water bottle (non aero) placement on a aero road bike and a non aero road bike at CAT 1-2 race speeds, better on the seat tube or downtube?
MSpeedWax has their race powder. I don't see anything similar at Silca. Does this really make a difference? They claim an additional 6% less friction. Thx!
No, it doesn't. If you look at the data from Tour Magazin or ZeroFriction cycling you see that SILCA hot melt is ~1 watt faster than a MoltenSpeed + RacePowder chain, which makes sense as the race powder can't get inside the chain where you'd really need it to be to reduce friction.
I use the YBN SLA110-Ti chains because the testing i saw says that after only just 100 miles, the YBN is faster than a dura ace chain. Yet the YBN chains last 50% longer. PLUS I wax my chains, so theoretically my chains should run for like 10,000 miles at least!!
Our testing has shown the YBN SLA110-Ti to start out about 0.4w slower than a DA and then get within 0.2w of matching the DA in speed over the first few hundred miles.. We have also seen it get within 10% of DA longevity, but not beat it. I grant you that the YBN Ti is a fantastic and really stunning piece of kit considering the materials involved and that it weigs about 35 grams (14%) less than the DA chain, but it also can't be considered for this video as it runs ~$200, more than double our $100 limit.
@@SILCAVelo i only use them because i wax, so I feel like I'll get my moneys worth out of the chains!! Haha the testing i saw was done by zero friction. I'm sure testing chains and drivetrains is hard enough to where there's going to be some variances between tests.
It's safe with a good rim tape that covers the entire tire bed. We recommend 2-3 wraps of tubeless tape which serves as an insulator between the rim and tube.
I wonder the difference between a latex inner tube and the new Tubolito inner tube. Those are as light but no need to pump up as much. Double resistance and only 1/3 of the weight of a normal inner tube. I use them in combination with the new GP5000 tyre and runs fast and smooth.
So tubolito tubes are more or less equivalent to butyl or light butyl (for the super light version) which is to say that weight doesn't necessarily equal fast. I like them for spares as they are so small.. but for pure speed, you definitely want latex or the top 2-3 models of tubeless. - Josh
This is also a good point.. tuning pressures before each ride depending on terrain/surface conditions can save you almost as many watts as fast tubes or tires.. - Josh
If you want to kind of split the difference on the ease of use of a butyl tube and the speed of a latex tube, it seems that many of the lightweight butyl tubes out there are performing in that middle ground (at least if the bicyclerollingresistance data is anything to go by) and you don't have to deal with overnight air leakage.
This is almost true in pure rolling resistance terms, but remember that latex tubes are more resistant to both punctures and pinch flats than standard butyl tubes, while lightweight butyl tubes are disproportionately MORE likely to puncture or pinch flat than standard. If you want to go fast and keep punctures to a minimum, latex or tubeless are your best options as I'd rather inflate my tires before each ride (should be doing this anyway..) than deal with flats. - Josh
This would be greater than $100, but what about hysteresis improvement using a stem that flexes like the redshift shock stop? Or if you have a Specialized bike with the future shock.
For me, nothing slower than pinch flats. You know my plight. Fixed free! Had 28mm tire on unused wheel. Not recommended for this track bike. Fits handily. Almost rebuilt wheel with DT swiss 22 mm id rim but profile only 24.5mm. Would need longer spokes for sure. So I chose the free easy solution. Light bulb effect is noticeable but not like mismatched rims. Cheaper solution first!
TP tubes are very light, but don't offer real rolling resistance advantage unless you are using the super thin ones meant only as short term spares. From an overall performance perspective, latex still wins.
Tubolito tubes are similar to butyl in terms of Crr performance and the light tubolito tubes are about halfway between butyl and latex in terms of Crr..
Problem with Latex tubes is that they only come in sizes for skinny race tires. But maybe I'm not the type of rider who needs or would notice marginal gains. The links are helpful though.
Probably because tubeless is so much more practical on larger tires. Get a flat with 23mm tires and they'll be off the bead before the sealant works. Then you'd have to put a tube into that slimy skinny tire mess!
The SILCA latex tubes work well up to 34mm and wider than that, I'd recommend tubeless+sealant as those tires are getting ever faster and the sealant works so much better at those lower pressures. - Josh
I have used latex inner tubes for over 20 years now. They offer such a great smoothness while riding and low rolling resistance in addition. In only two occasion tubes exploded due to my bad mounting. Ever since I shake latex tubes in a plastic bag with baby powder before mounting, do not use levers for mounting and take really really dillgent care that the tube is within the tire there was not problem any more. Pressure loss is significantly reduced with 30-60ml of Stans sealnant (23-35mm tires). I have very few punctures (10-15.000km/y). Repairing is easy and durable with TipTop patches if done properly. Be very cautious with even a small cut in the tire. Latex is so flexible, it will creep out even of the smallest cut and cause a flat. You have to cover cuts from the inside of the tire! And carefully check your inner rims and rim tapes before mounting!
Yes, they are smaller, but they do exist even at those lower speeds. Also remember that you can ride 14mph into a 10mph headwind and aerodynamically that's the same as riding 24mph with no wind, so airspeed and ground speed are not always equal.
We do them in limited runs that tend to sell out pretty quickly! You can get on our mailing list over at www.silca.cc to be notified when new ones come out! Currently have an awesome vintage Molteni team car shirt selling fast
We actually sell them for use as spares.. they are amazingly light and small, so you can fit 2 in the space of a normal tube. However, they are no faster than butyl in terms of rolling resistance so you would be giving up watts compared to latex. We've also found them to have long term issues at the valve stems so would not recommend for daily use.
At the moment TPU tubes are the lightest option, but aren't yet competitive with latex in terms of rolling resistance. Testing we've done on Tubolito tubes shows them to be about halfway between the Crr of latex and butyl making them advantageous for climbing with latex being much faster on the flats.
Josh, thank you for you as usual sharp observations. Just yesterday was maintaining my bike, when I began to notice the free wheel hub noise louder than usual. Had to open it, for the first time. After cleaning and checking if everything is ok, oiled And greased all the moving parts. Long story short, free wheel hub noise got reduced for a good 70%. Add to that the wheel is spinning much more smoothly and easily. Went out to test it, voila, I was flying. To me, a Very noticeable change in the behaviour of my bike. Noiseless and flowful. So yes, Noise is Friction. No matter where it comes from. Peace and thank you for you Great work. ~ Rinoni
Wheels are a topic that is currently in the works! Please let me know your questions and thoughts (and please send your friends here to leave their questions and comments) to help guide us as we're working on it!
Tyres and wax for sure. Socks I would never have guessed in my life. My first foray in latex lasted 30 kilometres with a tube stem failure resulting in a near crash. The bike shop said that happens sometimes with some rims and well, bad luck. I want to like them from what others say.
Aside from that you surprised me crediting others which shows a lot of respect.
Thanks again for your insights again Josh.
Rick, yes, latex takes some extra care in the setup, rim tape and installation, but is certainly worth it in the long run, for the feel alone , I'd say worth it, and when you factor in the efficiency, even more so!! Yes, the socks were a real eye opener for me.. we literally re-ran the tunnel test as I was SURE something was broken the first time I saw it! There will be a couple more of these examples in future Top 5 episodes, all very fun. Thanks for watching and please share us with your riding partners! - Josh
Thanks. Great video. Please stop with the music in the background. You don't need it. The content is good enough to stand alone.
Was just about to say how much I liked the music...
I just "found" your channel and thought it was really good. Then I read all your answers to questions. This channel is best. I really appreciate that you offer alternate brands, and it is not all about sales. I don't even know where to find Silca around here.
Where are you located?
@@SILCAVelo Victoria B.C. Canada.
Wish you’d sold me your stuff earlier. Super secret on my bike was like riding a completely different bike. Love it.
Great video thanks.
Aero socks for Ironman have to make sense. I’ve always gone without socks but put running socks on after the bike. From now on I’ll put aero socks on for the bike and leave them on for the run. That way I lose no “changing” time but gain the aero advantage.
I’m still struggling to understand the marginal gain of the bar tape though? I get the comfort but what am I missing?
Good luck trying to put on aero socks when your feet are wet... They are so tight, you need to remove every microgram of water from the feet before you manage to slide them. And even then, they take forever to put on. I don't know if it might still be a win, but I would expect several *minutes* of extra time at T1.
@@luc4662 I just did Ironman Kazakstan and used Silca aero socks. Knitted socks and instantly pull on, no delay. 2nd in AG and qualified for the worlds so I’ll take it as a win. Might have more to do with the silly amount of training I did though. Hahaha
@@scpromark Good to know ! I should try the Silca socks.
+1 latex. Feels nicer to ride too and reputedly works better with ‘after the event’ sealants.
Great video, I could watch this sort of thing all day. Couple of questions for you:
1. Aero socks seem like a no brainer to me, but why don't pro triathletes wear them? There's no rules from UCI and the gains extrapolated to an ironman must be minutes rather than seconds - easily offsetting the 20 sec it takes them to put them on.
2. How important are shoe aerodynamics and which models are good to look at?
3. OK so it's three questions, do any overshoe companies incorporate the ribs on the calf for similar gains?
Did you ever put a Sock on with wet feets? Or a latex glove with wet hands.
I think the Benefit is very very marginal
@@anhduytran7981 yep, I wear socks during triathlons. If you turn them 75% inside out pre race and then in T1 you can just poke your toe in and then "milk" the sock onto your foot and lower leg and its a walk in the park, you never have to slide the material over wet skin. With standard cotton socks it takes about 5 sec per foot.
Socks take time to put on. especially on wet skin - I suspect that's a deal breaker during transitions.
You don't attempt to patch either during a ride. Glue less patches will get you home but don't stretch with the tube and fail. Once glue less is on, regular patch won't stick anymore! Traffic and wind noise make finding leaks harder. You can't use CO2 cartridge to find leaks either!
Great list! Would love to try your chain wax products. Well fitting aero jersey is another I would say. 10-20 watts there over a looser fitting one. Doesn't have to cost that much either.
Great video Josh. Long time fan of your work and reader of your top input on Slowtwitch. A few questions:
1. How does the Wipperman Connex chain compare to the Dura Ace 9100? I'm a DA fan, but heard good things on the Connex.
2. Where would a cronically under-waxed, or completely bare chain sit in terms of wattage losses at, say, 250w rider output?
3. It not an 'upgrade' or strictly UCI legal perhaps, but what about adding silicone sealant to the tire/rim interface 'crack' to smooth out the airflow? Could easily be removed? Surely a big saving, especially if interface isn't neat beforehand...?
4. My addition would be aero skewers... but not great for wheel changes.
Ok if there isn't a team car following you. Pinhead skewers more aero than standard. Delta far cheaper. Like to go fast but no team car will ever follow me!
1.The Wipperman is a really beautiful and amazing piece of kit. I use Wipperman quick links on all my chains, but the DA chain shifts a bit better and runs about 0.6 watt faster.
2.A waxed DA chain can run sub 4 watt loss on 250 and a chain with White Lightning dry lube can run at 12w+ loss after just an hour of riding it. A squeaky dry chain will run at 15+ watts of loss depending on what it had been lubed within initially and how much is left, and a totally dry, stripped chain will run at 25+ watts of loss!
3. Silicone can work and we used to do it for key events like the TdF way back in the day. To really work properly, the tire/rim widths have to be equal or better, obey the rule of 105.. unfortunately, this also adds Crr to the system which can offset some of the gains if not all of them.
4. This is a great one for TT or if you have a team follow car!
SILCA Velo Fantastic detail and insight, particularly on the stripped/almost dry chain! Thanks Josh!
I love Silca products. Such great quality. Just get what Josh makes unless you are racing against me.
Very Interesting video ! have you got any recommendation for 12 speed chains?
I know latex is more efficient but I converted to TPU on size alone. I can fit 2 spare TPUs in the same space as a single latex or butyl tube. And if I only carry 1 spare, that's extra space I can use for my car keys or a tube of sunscreen or something similar size.
Agreed, TPU are great for spares, they're just slower and a bit more fragile for regular use.
Hey Josh, what about a video on hubs and hub bearings?
I have some Chris King hubs that I tear down 1-2x a year to clean and lube and man these things feel like they roll so fast compared to other wheel-sets of mine where I've never replaced the bearings. I would love to see some data though...hub mfg, design, freewheel efficiency, bearings, etc. I think new wheel bearings would fall into your
We are working on a show about bearing losses now, but your specific situation is a little bit real and a little bit placebo! So the total losses from a subset are at most a couple of watts.. which is why at best, ceramic bearings can save about 0.8 watts when compared to REALLY poor hub bearings. So you King hubs probably absorb 2-3 watts at baseline and as they get dirty drift up to maybe 3-4 watts, but the clutch mechanism is much more sensitive.. it might absorb 3-5 watts when coasting and then when dry or dirty as much as 7-8 watts.. so cleaning and regressing the clutch can make a really notable difference in feel. To put all of it in perspective though, removing ALL hub frictional losses combined is only about equivalent from moving from a Continental Gatorskin to a GP5000 rear tire.. and moving from butyl to latex inner tube in a rear tire is similar to elminating ALL hub bearing drag.. so the placebo piece of this is the sound. Whenever I rebuild my hubs or BB, I feel exactly the same way.. the sound just makes you feel so unbelievably fast! - Josh
Have you ever tested anything regarding wheel balancing? The only bike related thing with numbers I could finde was from ride now, and that was a ca. 20 sec video without any explanation ^^ i would really love to get more insight, as it is fairly easy to do a fine balancing job with golf club wheigts
Great insights Josh. Love the new drip chain wax. Questions: can you or anyone comment on the expected life of an 11 speed Dura Ace chain v. Ultegra? In my case, recreational road riding in varied weather conditions. Rest of drivetrain is like new. Thank you!
Hey Josh, any chain recommendations for 10 and 9 speed chains? Thanks!!
Very cool Paris-Dakar 959 T-shirt!
Thanks! We might have to bring that one back, they were limited edition and sold out very quickly!
hmm..about that chain. One could learn a lot by testing the Rockwell hardnes of the plates & pins and figurinig out what the metal finish is for the pins and plates. I think about all the things I've seen precision machinists do and I think mabye Shimano's manufacturing process allows for better surface finish and or special coating that afffects the side-plate to aluminum interface of the chainring. The Ceramicspeed dudes were claiming significant improvement in efficiency using a factory-applied (PTFE?) coating which would last 500 miles. They claimed they were supplying to several pro teams a while back (don't know if that's still true). I'm using parafin mixed with PTFE powder on my chains but I'm not a racer and don't have any way to test it. A long while back Campagnolo had a video of their chain assembly machines in action.
Great video thanks Josh- What's you opinion in regards to the best rubber to pick for a 650c wheels. I have a Zipp 2001 on 650 wheels and I am running short of options. Cheers
Hey Josh! Another great video and I'm a big Silca fan! What are your thoughts around the KMC 11s DLC chains with Silca Wax vs the Shimano DA 11s?
Try Shimano 12 speed chain on 11sp. drivetrain. You would be astounded, but first I recommend to read the thread on Weight Weeenies about it.
Ur drivetrain will be totally silent, same shifting and longer chain life, combined with SILCA secret chain lube, total silence.
Try it you won’t regret it
Question about chains. Do chains work more efficiently (saving watts) if the chainring, cassette and chain are all of the same make? Or, does mixing makes not have any effect?
Where can I get an over the calf aero sock? Most I've found are UCI compliant and therefore only go to mid calf at best. I want a much taller sock.
What about the area between the top of the sock and where the bib's leg ends? Fully shaven to improve aero?
Super content. Keep it up!!
You recommend the Nastro handlebar tape, but not the specific model. You show a roll of Cuscino which seems to be the pick of the Tour magazine you referenced. Can I expect the same from the Fiore or Piloti or should I get the ESI to get the color I want?
For our tape lineup, we have different texture and thickness for each model, but all are made from the same exotic foam and TPU which is incredibly cushioning while being low damping (foam developed for NIKE 2 hour marathon shoes..) and the TPU top later is the same stuff you find in Oakley nose and earpieces, so very soft with almost equivalent wet/dry grip.. so between models you are just getting a different thickness and look, but same tech
Hi thank you for getting me in hot wax. What is the minimum width & depth rim for a 28mm gp5000?
Great video, Josh! What are your thoughts on oval chainrings like Absolute Black versus traditional round rings?
We have a video in the works on this now, but I'll say: mostly snake oil, and also that I can be a fan of snake oil..
@@SILCAVelo looking forward to your video on it!
Sorry if this sounds weird, but I am so curious why doesn't hair on the legs "trip" the air in the same way aero socks create micro turbulence to keep the air around the leg for longer and a wake with less drag, yet shaving the legs in your other video was one of the free marginal gains?
It's all about boundary layer thickness and location of the trip zone. For flow on the lower leg, the boundary layer thickness for tripping is about 1mm, and you only need it right in the separation zone, so with hairy legs you have ~1cm long hair everywhere making a big mess of the airflow. Theoretically you could leave 2 thin stripes of leg hair at ~+/-40 degrees of the center of the shin, and then keep those stripes trimes to ~1-2mm max and have a similar effect to aero socks.
@@SILCAVelo like built in aero socks all up the leg then UCI can't ban it??
Thanks for puting such a great video together, for those of us still on a 10 speed drive train, have you had the opportunity to test a dura ace chain in 10S ? If so what does the data says in terms of Watt gains? ⏩⏩⏩
The chain is most likely not compatible.
Josh I love all your science and deconstruction on these marginal gains fronts. You have made me a fan of chains, lubes, and tubes brother. ✊🏾 🚴🏾♂️,,,...
ok heres the big question for me. When you flat on a latex tube which is faster, patching the latex tube or running butyl?
Considering that latex tubes are more resistant to puncture flats and pinch flats than butyl tubes, it will always faster to run the latex tube. They can also be run with sealant in them for key events and will seal better when used with sealant than a butyl tube used with sealant. Really the only downside of latex tubes is that they take considerably more care when installing as they are so easy to pinch between the rim and tire, and also require nicely fitted rim tape as they can really get into all the little nooks and crannies otherwise. But overall, 5 extra minutes installing at the outset will pay dividends for years afterwards.
Is there a psi point where tubeless (and in particular sealant) is no longer as effective, and that latex should be the go to for better road feel? Based on my weight and tire size (roughly 28mm measured), I should be riding somewhere between 80-85 psi. How much less effective is sealant as this pressure? I’m trying out tubeless, and while the installation has been pain free, I’m dreading having a puncture that doesn’t seal and having a messy tube installation.
Thank you Josh this is awesome.
You're very welcome!
single large water bottle (non aero) placement on a aero road bike and a non aero road bike at CAT 1-2 race speeds, better on the seat tube or downtube?
MSpeedWax has their race powder. I don't see anything similar at Silca. Does this really make a difference? They claim an additional 6% less friction. Thx!
No, it doesn't. If you look at the data from Tour Magazin or ZeroFriction cycling you see that SILCA hot melt is ~1 watt faster than a MoltenSpeed + RacePowder chain, which makes sense as the race powder can't get inside the chain where you'd really need it to be to reduce friction.
Would using a latex inner tube help at all if using a slow / puncture resistance tyres?
I use the YBN SLA110-Ti chains because the testing i saw says that after only just 100 miles, the YBN is faster than a dura ace chain. Yet the YBN chains last 50% longer. PLUS I wax my chains, so theoretically my chains should run for like 10,000 miles at least!!
Our testing has shown the YBN SLA110-Ti to start out about 0.4w slower than a DA and then get within 0.2w of matching the DA in speed over the first few hundred miles.. We have also seen it get within 10% of DA longevity, but not beat it. I grant you that the YBN Ti is a fantastic and really stunning piece of kit considering the materials involved and that it weigs about 35 grams (14%) less than the DA chain, but it also can't be considered for this video as it runs ~$200, more than double our $100 limit.
@@SILCAVelo i only use them because i wax, so I feel like I'll get my moneys worth out of the chains!! Haha
the testing i saw was done by zero friction. I'm sure testing chains and drivetrains is hard enough to where there's going to be some variances between tests.
Is it true that latex tube are not recommended to use on Carbon wheels with rim brakes?
Yeah, they can blow up easily with the heat from braking.
It's safe with a good rim tape that covers the entire tire bed. We recommend 2-3 wraps of tubeless tape which serves as an insulator between the rim and tube.
NFS chain lube is not easy to get in America,, can you recommend another easy drip chain lube
I wonder the difference between a latex inner tube and the new Tubolito inner tube. Those are as light but no need to pump up as much. Double resistance and only 1/3 of the weight of a normal inner tube. I use them in combination with the new GP5000 tyre and runs fast and smooth.
You should be checking your tire pressure before every ride anyway.
So tubolito tubes are more or less equivalent to butyl or light butyl (for the super light version) which is to say that weight doesn't necessarily equal fast. I like them for spares as they are so small.. but for pure speed, you definitely want latex or the top 2-3 models of tubeless. - Josh
This is also a good point.. tuning pressures before each ride depending on terrain/surface conditions can save you almost as many watts as fast tubes or tires.. - Josh
What tyre models do you recommend?
What about using Velotozes vs. wearing socks
That's a great one, but would definitely need the right weather.. 7 hours in Velotoze would not be easy on the feet!!
If you want to kind of split the difference on the ease of use of a butyl tube and the speed of a latex tube, it seems that many of the lightweight butyl tubes out there are performing in that middle ground (at least if the bicyclerollingresistance data is anything to go by) and you don't have to deal with overnight air leakage.
This is almost true in pure rolling resistance terms, but remember that latex tubes are more resistant to both punctures and pinch flats than standard butyl tubes, while lightweight butyl tubes are disproportionately MORE likely to puncture or pinch flat than standard. If you want to go fast and keep punctures to a minimum, latex or tubeless are your best options as I'd rather inflate my tires before each ride (should be doing this anyway..) than deal with flats. - Josh
Personally, I'd just use TPU tubes.
This would be greater than $100, but what about hysteresis improvement using a stem that flexes like the redshift shock stop? Or if you have a Specialized bike with the future shock.
I have this question too. Does the dampening effect of the future shock decrease effeciency?
UCI started regulating sock height last year (cf. 1.3.033 bis), probably for aero boosting reasons.
And because it looks a bit silly IMHO ;-) Josh
@@SILCAVelo That's true. But, um, to be fair, isn't that also true for most of the stuff we wear?
For me, nothing slower than pinch flats. You know my plight. Fixed free! Had 28mm tire on unused wheel. Not recommended for this track bike. Fits handily. Almost rebuilt wheel with DT swiss 22 mm id rim but profile only 24.5mm. Would need longer spokes for sure. So I chose the free easy solution. Light bulb effect is noticeable but not like mismatched rims. Cheaper solution first!
Did you know that of the 11 sentences in this comment, 9 of them have no subject or no verb? I actually have no idea what you’re trying to say
953 (or is it a 959)+ bikes tshirt for the win Josh!
Paris-Dakar 959.. the OG (original gravel) IMHO - Josh
Also, in stock right now (as is our BMW 2002 shirt): silca.cc/collections/soft-goods
which aero socks do people recommend
How about thermoplastic tubes versus latex?
TP tubes are very light, but don't offer real rolling resistance advantage unless you are using the super thin ones meant only as short term spares. From an overall performance perspective, latex still wins.
This guy: 'Sneak it up just a little bit more'
Me: that's 100% more, literally.
Salesmen...ffs.
how does the latex tubes compare to say the Tubolito tubes?
Tubolito tubes are similar to butyl in terms of Crr performance and the light tubolito tubes are about halfway between butyl and latex in terms of Crr..
tubes and tyres are better than marginal for not that much and they need replacing eventually anyway
do they make aero helmet for mtb?
Problem with Latex tubes is that they only come in sizes for skinny race tires. But maybe I'm not the type of rider who needs or would notice marginal gains. The links are helpful though.
Probably because tubeless is so much more practical on larger tires. Get a flat with 23mm tires and they'll be off the bead before the sealant works. Then you'd have to put a tube into that slimy skinny tire mess!
The SILCA latex tubes work well up to 34mm and wider than that, I'd recommend tubeless+sealant as those tires are getting ever faster and the sealant works so much better at those lower pressures. - Josh
I have used latex inner tubes for over 20 years now. They offer such a great smoothness while riding and low rolling resistance in addition.
In only two occasion tubes exploded due to my bad mounting.
Ever since I shake latex tubes in a plastic bag with baby powder before mounting, do not use levers for mounting and take really really dillgent care that the tube is within the tire there was not problem any more.
Pressure loss is significantly reduced with 30-60ml of Stans sealnant (23-35mm tires).
I have very few punctures (10-15.000km/y). Repairing is easy and durable with TipTop patches if done properly.
Be very cautious with even a small cut in the tire. Latex is so flexible, it will creep out even of the smallest cut and cause a flat. You have to cover cuts from the inside of the tire! And carefully check your inner rims and rim tapes before mounting!
So are you adding sealant with latex tubes? In btwn the tube & tire? Or inside the latex tube?
Can I get aero gains from riding an MTB at 14 mph?
Yes, they are smaller, but they do exist even at those lower speeds. Also remember that you can ride 14mph into a 10mph headwind and aerodynamically that's the same as riding 24mph with no wind, so airspeed and ground speed are not always equal.
great point. thank you @@SILCAVelo
Josh! Where can I find that shirt?!?
We do them in limited runs that tend to sell out pretty quickly! You can get on our mailing list over at www.silca.cc to be notified when new ones come out! Currently have an awesome vintage Molteni team car shirt selling fast
thoughts on tubolito type inner tubes?
We actually sell them for use as spares.. they are amazingly light and small, so you can fit 2 in the space of a normal tube. However, they are no faster than butyl in terms of rolling resistance so you would be giving up watts compared to latex. We've also found them to have long term issues at the valve stems so would not recommend for daily use.
Wath about TPU tubes
At the moment TPU tubes are the lightest option, but aren't yet competitive with latex in terms of rolling resistance. Testing we've done on Tubolito tubes shows them to be about halfway between the Crr of latex and butyl making them advantageous for climbing with latex being much faster on the flats.
Thanks
Josh, thank you for you as usual sharp observations. Just yesterday was maintaining my bike, when I began to notice the free wheel hub noise louder than usual.
Had to open it, for the first time. After cleaning and checking if everything is ok, oiled And greased all the moving parts.
Long story short, free wheel hub noise got reduced for a good 70%. Add to that the wheel is spinning much more smoothly and easily.
Went out to test it, voila, I was flying. To me, a Very noticeable change in the behaviour of my bike.
Noiseless and flowful.
So yes, Noise is Friction. No matter where it comes from.
Peace and thank you for you Great work.
~ Rinoni
So good to hear! Smooth, Quiet bikes make me happy! - Josh
But this gain is only a gain when coasting. When pedaling, there's no difference
What about wheels? I know they are way more than $100.00 but let's talk wheels.
Wheels are a topic that is currently in the works! Please let me know your questions and thoughts (and please send your friends here to leave their questions and comments) to help guide us as we're working on it!
👍
Here's another marginal gain: Clean discs AND Pads at the same time!
Faster stopping, faster rolling:
ruclips.net/video/_qzs_Pe18b4/видео.html
This thumbnail is a carcinogen.
you spent more time plugging your bar tape so this is the reason for this video you get thumbs down