I've commented before that I currently own Rolex, AP, Lange, FP Journe, Omega... and my last 7 watch purchases have all been GS... it's not a healthy addiction... but the quality of a GS (especially for the price) is incredibly hard to match...and its difficult for me to justify spending money on another brand at the moment.... and whenever I read comments about the bracelet I'm sincerely confused.. compared to my 116520 oyster bracelet, all my GS bracelets in my opinion put the Rolex to shame when it comes to finishing, looks, beveling, etc.. its not even close... the Rolex def wins in the clasp mechanism itself(much sturdier clasp) BUT NOT bracelet finishing, look and quality... put them side by side and its obvious.. the Rolex bracelet(and case) look like machine stamped products....in terms of thickness I have a 7.25 inch wrist and have always been attracted to sportier, thicker watches... and there is something in how GS designs their cases that make them sit comfortably on the wrist and thinner than the numbers would suggest... the new EVO 9 line has also improved this significantly... the branding does not bother me at all... as long as I know what I am wearing is special(hand finished, hand assembled, etc) is what gives me pleasure and satisfaction.. my GS watches now occupy 98% of my wrist time.. and like always.. to each their own
@r2l100 im looking at the GS currently on my wrist as im reading what you wrote.. its a titanium gs.. and literally every single link is removable on this watch... good luck to you.. like i said before.. to each their own..
@r2l100 my daytona 116520 has 3 fixed links on each side.. my GS sbgh269 has 4 fixed links on each side.. both have same removable links... how big are your wrists?!? I bought my father a GS.. he has a 6 inch wrist.. and it fits perfectly
@japanwatchconnection who am I kidding? I own both these brands and many others... i hold them side by side... my Rolex watches look very average next to GS and the other warches I own.. Rolex easily wins in clasp feel and mechanism.. but thats it.. this is my opinion after many years of ownership
I love Grand Seikos as well and that is all I have been purchasing lately! Just dont overhype them and keep it as our secret because I personally dont want everyone to start buying them because I want it all to myself especially limited editions! I really hope Grand Seiko stays under the radar because I dont like competition and have to beg an AD to get one! They can stay with there rolexes and APs and pateks!
Great video and topic for discussion! My take on the three points as an owner of 3 GS watches: 1) Thickness: While not completely unfounded, paper dimensions aren't everything and you have to try some of the watches in person to see how they wear. Some GS watches have box sapphire crystals which add to the thickness but wear as if they were thinner, and even some of the "thicker" watches don't wear super thick due to the mid-case design and curvature of the case. If nothing else, it seems GS is moving towards thinner watches in their Evolution 9 cases. 2) Bracelet/Clasp: In my experience, the bracelets are fine and you can even tell they're thoughtfully crafted (i.e. shoulder bevels). Lack of micro-adjustments, while a fair gripe, is the trade-off for having a small clasp. I wonder though, if this is a bit of a double standard, as many higher-end watches don't have micradjustments (AP Royal Oak for example) and I don't hear nearly the complaining as with GS (if a lack of microadjustments would stop you from getting a GS, but not a Royal Oak, there are other factors influencing your decision) 3) Branding: If you view luxury as extrinsically derived (i.e. brand name cache, perception), then I can't say anything here. You buy the watches you want and like, and that's that. But it's objectively wrong to discount GS as a quality watch, just because of the branding. If you view luxury as intrinsically derived (i.e. the quality, artisan/craftmanship), then you'd be hardpressed to find something close to GS quality at the price point. If the branding turns you off, then don't buy it - but it's an incorrect statement to say it's a bad watch for that reason. The good news is that this issue with GS has been becoming less of an issue as people are beginning to recognize GS more and more
Jeffrey, excellent counters that just go to show it’s not the one with a RUclips channel that makes the most sense, especially when it comes to how luxury is perceived. Extrinsic v intrinsic appreciation differentiates so much in life, with the latter usually being more fulfilling and better for us all.
The bracelet isn’t the issue technically. It’s the clasp. That’s it. Put a better clasp with micro adjustments. That’s all. Do that and silence all your legitimate critics.
I have seen and held Grand Seikos in the flesh, and like many watch nuts said, the quality is top notch. The sweeping seconds hand on the spring drive models is truly satisfying, and the case dimensions are not as big as one would think. My birthday watch this year will definitely a GS.
I recently purchased the sbga427 soko light. I feel it has the perfect dimensions in the 39 mm case. The fit and finish is great ....and the soko editions come with a leather strap with a deployant clasp. Alot of bang for 4.6 k. I have a smaller wrist
I've owned 3 Rolex. Great watches and the strongest brand in the watch industry and the resale value is second to none. That being said, I no longer own Rolex watches because I have 2 upper end Seikos .I'm purchasing a Grand Seiko for my next watch. To me, Grand Seiko is the complete package. BTW, great video.
The Evolution 9 Collection fixed two of the problems. Thickness of ~11.9mm and an improved bracelet for a very sporty yet elegant piece. However, the clasp still needs on-the-fly micro adjustment. The newer 9SA5 and 9RA2 movements are absolutely amazing! Yes, I own a GS.
@japanwatchconnection Here’s what Akio Naito, CEO of Seiko, recently said in an interview just last month. “One important event was the completion of the development of 9SA Caliber for us, a new platform for the high beat mechanical movement, and you are familiar with the [Hi Beat] 9SA5. But on the basis of that platform, we thought we were able to develop different calibers, and this is one of those options. So, even though I'm not supposed to be saying this, there are many more interesting things that will be coming.” Hopefully, Akio meant a GMT is coming later this year.
Yup. As a Grand Seiko owner and massive fan, those were the three things I thought you'd say:) With the bracelets, I've often wondered whether them being a bit thinner and more flexible than say Omega, etc., is actually a market preference in JDM---for exactly the reason as you said that they are *definitely not* cutting any corners anywhere. Absolutely love my champagne dial SGBA201, though matter of fact it gets noticed and starts conversations much more than anything else I've worn. The zaratsu and ridiculously classy dial stand out as obviously luxury, and I get a lot of "woah; what's that?". But sure, it's definitely not like a President or a gold AP or something like that...(which I don't own).
Body Language: Try watching this video with the audio off. Doesn't it look like someone trying hard to talk himself out of a sticky situation; e.g. principal's office, in front of an angry spouse, convincing a loan shark to give him another week...? So what does that say about the content of this video?
I used to own the SBGJ201 Mt. Iwate Hi-Beat GMT. The polishing was amazing and so was the dial. The thickness was an issue even for my 6 3/4" wrist. Additionally, the bracelet was fine from a fit and finish perspective, but the clasp is where it really falls down. The top heavy nature GS watches demands a good fit on the bracelet, which you can't get due to 0 micro-adjust. Otherwise, I loved the watch. This did cause me to sell it and got the Tudor Black Bay Chrono Reverse Panda and love this watch.
I just wanted to take a moment to say how amazing your video was! I was really impressed with the quality of the footage, the editing, and the overall presentation. You did a great job of explaining the topic in a clear and concise way, and I learned a lot from watching your video.
Grand Seiko bracelets on the heritage line is just as comfortable as Rolex Oystersteel bracelet. I think there is a line between comfort level and comfort derived from knowing how well you can adjust the bracelet. And I think the latter should be diminished as a molehill, rather than emphasized like the mountain. Because adjustability on a luxury watch is more of your AD's problem than your own. At least it is here; ADs will adjust watches free-of-charge and they will do it properly.
I tried couple of Spring Drive automatic Seikos and I agree with the comment about thickness. Didnt like it a lot. But then I tried the Omiwatari nd fell in love. Its thinner, elegant, spring drive but manual wind. Mesmerizing dial and finish. So I pulled the trigger. One downside of that model is the length of the croc strap, surprisingly too long.
GRAND SEIKO may be a manufacturer to AVOID! Here's why ... Bought a brand new Lake Suwa Ref 021 with the Spring Drive in Japan after hearing how great GS was. It's supposed to have a 5 day power reserve. I got the watch for a family member as a gift thinking this would truly be a watch he could enjoy for years to come. Never wore or sized the watch. Absolutely brand new from authorized Grand Seiko dealer in Japan. I just opened it up and wound the power reserve to near full and hoped to see it last for up to 5 days. Two days later I go back to see the watch that's in the box and it's stopped running! Now this can't be normal right? Since I don't live in Japan I couldn't go back to the selling dealer. So I went to my local GS dealer in my country and he said this is not normal. He said let us bring it to our Grand Seiko watch repair center to see what they say. 4 days later they tell me oh this is something ONLY Japan can repair and because this model is so new we are not equipped to repair this! I said so I paid about for a new watch and it has to go back to Japan for about a month or more to get repaired? I requested that Grand Seiko simply replace the unit with a new unit and he said they could not do that. I find this practice to be unethical, poor business sense, and a quick way to lose brand loyalty, of which they have not even yet established yet. SO basically I have to pay in full, never get any use from the purchase, and it has to go to Japan for repairs for God knows how long. Not sure Grand Seiko Marketing or Director of Sales would find this remedy to be fair. Anyways, that's my experience with GS so far and no I won't recommend this brand to anyone. If you have any suggestions kindly let me know. I'm not upset that the watch has issues because any mechanical item could go wrong, but only after 2 days and never being worn? What's annoying is how the company has not stepped up and addressed this issue but simply expects the consumer that just paid full retail to now wait several months to get a "repaired" watch back! How is this logical to any major brand bidding to get loyal clients? I decided to reach out to Grand Seiko top management and see if they will intervene and do the right thing. Just wanted to share my experience with GS with your viewers as well. Again, this could very well be an anomaly, but how they are handling this situation is very unprofessional for such a large company. Thank you
Grand Seiko and Rolex owner here, among many others, but I find myself just admiring and admiring the look, feel, finish, and craftsmanship of the Grand Seikos more than Rolex and just about anything. I think it’s definitely true that Rolexes may impress others, but Grand Seiko impresses their owners.
Having an SBGW231 that is 37.3 at 12.something it wears amazing and its incredibly clean. Not going to convince anyone if you should have one or not it is almost perfect to me. I love their watches and I also love Panerai...
I have had my black dial SBGX261G for 6 months now and I am still fascinated by the great wrist presence of the Grand seiko with it's flashing and sparkling hour markers. I love the bracelet - it is very comfortable on my smaller wrist, it sits very well and does not 'pull'. The lack of an 'extension' is a problem in hot weather but that is not often a problem in the UK. (!) However, ALL steel bracelets should have a discreet extension...it's a vital component which needs addressing. (Eg: I will not be buying another higher end GS model (or any other brand which has a steel bracelet) until this basic requirement is addressed. IWC has a brilliant bracelet extension....at the price point - its the clincher!
Another concern is having to send my GS for service at the Mahwah, NJ service center. Horrendous after purchase customer service, sloppy work, absolute incompetence with little recourse when you get back a butchered watch. It is an embarrassment that Seiko allows this place to continue as they do.
Owner of a SBGA443. Bracelet is roughly the same as the SBGR053 I owned 8 or so years ago, though the lighter titanium is great. Lack of microadjustments is still a problem. Looked into the Evo9 bracelets and they seem slightly better, but no idea what a 22mm bracelet is doing on a 40mm watch. The Japanese seem to almost make a perfect watch, but always has something funky going on to not get the perfect mark. Maybe GS will get to microadjustments sometime down the line. For now I’m waiting on the Steel Reef to provide a solution.
I don’t see many talk about this but for all the dark dials they make that are gorgeous the lack of AR coating makes them just pick up reflections like crazy.
I have Grand Seiko, Tudor, Hamilton and some others. I actually like the weight of my Grand Seiko over those two. The Tudor 41 Royal is actually really nice. I wear the Seiko over it because of the weight. I love my Hamilton but it’s heavy. So they all have their place
My GS bracelet clasp has very sharp edges that irritate my wrist. I've filed and filed but titanium is HARD and filing isn't going to work. Maybe a grinder. :)
I value the branding BECAUSE it has the Seiko name in it. Seiko watches have an X factor than I can never describe to non watch people but get two (non-mall) Seiko owners together and we can’t stop talking about them. The fact that they have this premium line that they consider even more artful than their regular offerings makes them all the more appealing to include the proud Seiko name, as if to say “even more Seiko!”
I have the SLGA009 (evolution 9 case, spring drive movement, white birch dial) that was released earlier in 2022 and I fully agree with all your points. It is on the thick side (it's a "summer watch" for me), the bracelet is very good but does not reach the best Rolex sports model (yet), and I still consider it a geek watch, brand-wise. I'm ok with all of that. However, you forgot to mention its biggest point: you can actually walk in a boutique and buy it. Try doing that with a Submariner! :D
I have the same piece, I'll say that I kind of like the thickness with this piece because it helps make the watch head proportional to the bracelet and matches the overall heft of the assembly felt on the wrist.
3 reasons are: perception problems ("you paid how much for a Seiko?!" comments), uninspired designs (vanilla or derivative), and resale values. Those would be my 3.
I prefer their bracelets to Omega, the giant Omega clasps annoy me. What I dislike about Grand Seiko is their lack of lume on non-sport models. I know traditional dress watches aren’t lumed but I appreciate even a touch on all my watches. Also not a fan of their habit of placement of power reserve indicators .
Totally agree with your point on thickness in this video - and I own four GS watches. Wear them all regularly and constantly looking for new ones. Though I find the bracelets amazing. Not one sharp edge and as nicely crafted as the rest of the watch. GS is AP and VC quality - have those brands too and GS is on par in terms of quality,
Hi John, I have a Grand Seiko SBGA283 and a Rolex 114300 Blue and they seem like almost the same watch to me. OK the Rolex has loom but the GS has a very good date complication. The Rolex cost me $8k used. The GS cost me $3800 new with box and papers. The Rolex has a beautiful blue dial (or Grape) the GS has a stunning silver dial. Pick the one you like or like me pick them both. They are both great watches.
As a Snowflake owner and use it as my daily watch, I have no issue with the thickness or bracelet. But the clasp not having micro adjustment is slightly annoying. I have to do link changes for summer and winter to adjust for the heat and wrist size change. They do need a better marketing department and need to work on their factory outreach quite a bit.
It's in the name. Lexus or Grand Toyota .... Lincoln or Grand Ford .... Porsche or Grand VW ... Ferrari or Grand Fiat ... Lamborghini or Grand Audi/VW! The other reasons are superfluous.
The GS clasp does catch the cuff but that’s not a deal breaker for me. The elegance line is fine for that especially with its thinner case (hand wind movement).
As a new owner of a sbgv245 that I bought after reading and watching a lot of positive reviews, I now find myself selling my speedmaster to a friend of mine because I no longer have the want to wear it. The GS is just absolutely gorgeous and I find myself just admiring the workmanship. I don't care if it's a quartz, even that can be discussed. I also own a reverso so I will still have a mechanical watch in my collection.
have the exact same model too amongst other GS's. Love their quartz watches look the bizz, super accurate +/- 10 sec per year. GS will probably offer tapered bracelets as an option or produced as standard and non tapered as an alternative.
You are absolutely right John P. The thickness is the problem. I only wish they would redesign the case a little slimmer and the bracelet a little sturdier.
As an sbga229 owner can’t disagree more on the bracelet. Had for over a year and a half and it’s super comfortable and the diver extension is imo the best in the game. From what I’ve noticed I received an updated clasp on mine (something that wasn’t advertised I believe) so some peoples perceptions may be unfounded based on the earlier iterations
Many of our customers who bought Grad Seiko watches online ended up putting them on consignment in our jewelry store. 6 months later not a single customer has shown any interest.
I own the sbga375, spring drive, midnight blue dial and in the 44gs case... stunning watch its a keeper for me.. I find the bracelet comfortable on my hairy arm, the thickness has never bothered me and when I went out in search of a 40th bd pressie for myself I search extensively.. tried on dozens of watches and I found the whole experience in GS boutique far more pleasant than that of omega, oris, cartier, longines etc.. those that dismiss GS for the reason of them having seiko on the dial come across as narrowminded and status driven or maybe they to busy worrying about what other people would think of them if they were to own and wear one... GS in my experience of watch hunting was by far the best quality watch, most innovative company where horology is concerned and if you can allow ones self to see past the seiko and hype of other watches they are hyperwatches for entry level prices
A lot of GS watches are thick is because of the boxed sapphire which is awesome. If they went with flat sapphire, the watch would be really thin but not as esthetically pleasing and beautiful. Boxed sapphire is the way to go.
I love the Seiko Prospex with the SPB and SLA diver lines. That dovetails into GS. GS is still not a pop culture phenomenon like Rolex and Omega. But that doesn’t make them a bad brand. It makes GS new. And I love the GS on the dial.
A fitted to case curved 21/22mm strap with a deployment clasp would be nice, but micro adjustment on a bracelet seems too much of an effort for GS. They should make a replacement micro adjust clasp available to be retro fitted.
There are a great many replicas of the more popular prestige watches around these days, as I enquired about the price of a very nice looking Rolex submariner in a Cash Converters Pawn Shop in Brisbane Australia and was informed that it was a 'fake' so even if you own the genuine article then it may be perceived as a fake by others who may even be quite interested in watches. The Spring drive would be very difficult to replicate as I can't think of any watch movement that has a perfect sweeping seconds hand to put in a cheap replica so this one feature alone puts Seiko ahead of all the others.
I just bought a grand GMT 39 mm Ione omega Rolex. Tutor And long gene and the watch was used. I got a good deal on it. It's like brand new and it Is second to no other watch Bread? Beautiful watch not too flashy. Perfect finish perfect color I love it. I also own a couple tags.
You’re right about the thickness, although some will say that it’s subjective..however almost 15 mm for a dressier piece like the SBGM221 for example is a little steep especially for a watch under 40mm. I realize it’s a GMT but it’s neither a hi beat or spring drive. The bracelets do seem like an afterthought when you look at the attention to detail given to the case and dial finishing but even if I were to give that a pass the clasps were lackluster. I would take a slightly larger clasp for more adjustability
I have an SBGM221 and as some have posted, it doesn’t wear nearly as thick as the dims on paper. My recommendation is not to get caught up in paper specs but to try the watches on in person. They truly are exceptional and unique watches at an incredible value. Like nothing else on the market IMO.
They have come a long way. I'm warming up to the branding. It's too late to make a big change now, but way back when they started Grand Seiko they could have set the GS brand apart as a luxury subsidiary in the way that Honda (Acura), Nissan (Infiniti) and Toyota (Lexus) did. That way no one can say that they're not going to pay that kind of money for a watch that says Seiko on the dial.
I think Grand Seiko is a great name. It is loud and proud. Having a different name is not fooling anyone lol. If the watch is good enough, people will buy it. Do you really think the people who say they would not pay ‘that much’ for a watch with Seiko on, were ever going to pay ‘that much’ for any watch? 😂
Hi John, I agree totally and have left plenty of comments on the braclet and clasps, GS has done all the hard work so to make these improvements are not going to be difficult, remember the Japanese are masters of copying and improveing along with being true innovators, it's just a matter of time only.
I own three heritage models: SBGA283 (Spring Drive), SBGN011 (9F with GMT), and a SBGP005 (9F). The bracelets were all difficult to fit and are somewhat ill-fitting to this day. From the beginning I wondered why GS didn't spend more on bracelet development and production, but no product is perfect. I am sure that there is a corporate reason why GS has yet to address this. In fact, they likely hear no criticisms in their major markets. When it comes to luxury watches, I think that it is beneficial to remember the Rolling Stones, and we just might find that we've gotten what we need. GS, like every other watch manufacturer, is what it is, and it is producing watches to make money. I hate to say it but buyers can either buy and adapt or buy another brand. As you say JohnP, this will change as their market share in the US and Europe grows.
"I am sure that there is a corporate reason why GS has yet to address this." I think the reason why GS bracelets are so shit, is they have been paid off by the swiss watch industry to essentially cripple their products. There's no other logical reason for why bracelet development has not moved an inch in over 10 years.
I’m not a watch expert, but I do own five Grand Seikos, so here are my thoughts. First, I agree on the thickness. All of my GS watches are very thick and you are spot on, with the smaller ones the thickness is more evident. Second, I think GS bracelets are fine. But their clasps suck. I have regular Seikos with better clasps than my GSs. Last I could care less about the branding or status. I buy watches I like. I really don’t care if someone else knows it’s an expensive or nice watch.
Thank you for bringing up these points. If you have money to collect watches such as GS, then you have money for bespoke shirts to accommodate the watch under your wrist or at least MTM shirts. Complete agree with the micro adjustment point. We need that ASAP. The world needs it! Branding, who cares.
Grand Seiko snowflake with a Colareb navy leather strap is the one watch collection I’d need. So versatile from very formal to smart casual situations and unbelievably beautiful in person. Jack of all trades and quite slim IMO. 1.5 seconds a month accuracy. Amazing shock and magnetic resistant case and movement. No batteries to leak and a watch your grandchildren can inherit. It could be had for £3400 directly from Japan during covid pandemic when none of us cared for watches. No other watch can beat that.
Thanks a lot John, for a very informative video on this brand. I’ve been collecting for about five years. About four years ago salesman in a watch shop showed me Grand Seiko. I wasn’t impressed. The watch was just rather bland looking compared to what I was used to. Since then, I keep hearing about how great they are, some even believe them to be superior to Rolex. I was in a jewelers about a month ago and I saw them again. This time my eyes lit up. I saw the very different kind of charm that they possess, very Japanese. Now I am considering adding one to my collection as the quality is hard to deny. I haven’t decided what I will buy but it will have to be used as I can’t afford the new ones. I’ve been shopping online, just looking around, not anywhere near ready to buy yet. This video is really help me to understand the brand better and to be aware of the pitfalls involved. It hasn’t eterred me in the least bit as most of the things you mention don’t bother me, but I always like to be well informed before I buy. Thanks for the help.
branding and bracelet is never really what turned me away from the brand. even before i was into watches when i first learned about grand seiko it was like "oh this is their luxury brand makes sense i assume it's good quality" and the bracelet i mean if i've never owned another luxury watch bracelet then i won't know what im missing from other bracelets. what did turn me away was what sounds like a headache for servicing spring drive movements, and the 41mm size on the snow flake since i have really small wrists
Love my GS Green Dial GMT Peacock! At first i did not like the Bracelet looking a bit like a boring Omega Seamaster Bracelet but after a While i got used to it and the Finishing is just great; the Clasp ist fairly ok. Thickness Point is also true; still the Watch is easy to wear. Finally i love my Peacock, the Dial ist incredible, in my Eyes the most beautiful Green Dial on the Market and the Polishing and Quality of Finishing is outstanding. For me its a Keeper!
Im not a fan of GS.... just adding the word Grand to Seiko feels weird for me. i do like Seiko though and have many models in my collection including Seiko LX which is the only way i can get the spring drive movement without buying an actual GS.
Another thing that really annoys me is the lack of global service centers! The fact that your GS has to go back to Japan for service is ridiculous and they are not too reliable neither. My Spring Drive went back after it stopped everything I put it down, even when the power reserve says it’s full. The White Birch went back because it was way outside the stated spd tolerance. Seriously, in terms of robustness, they are nowhere near Omega or Rolex. I have been riding my bike with my Speedie and had my Explorer 2 bumping around while riding them eScooters around Europe and neither lost or gain a second, it’s incredible.
I have been around for decades so the Grand Seiko bracelets neve felt bad to me. My 1990s Submariner certainly does not have a better one. What I love about Grand Seiko is the dials, the great movements, and the design. I own three and may own more in the future. Other watches I own are Rolex and IWC, and while I love my IWCs I think Grand Seiko has a more consistent design language and better value all things considered.
Waiting for my Roli (takes forever :( LOL... I am wearing my Sky Flake as I watch your vid. I have a 7.5 inch mid to small wrist. Not chunky at all. Not sure about the bracelet, it seems Ok so far. The thing that bugs me is that I cannot get a stainless GS bracelet back up for my stock beautiful croc strap. I called my AD in my city and he said, nope! I think Grand Seiko should rebrand and call themselves GS... drop the Seiko. It is gorgeous and blows most Suisse watches out of water when you look what's under the hood.
John, the branding is the main issue. If It wasn’t a thing, it wouldn’t be a thing. I’m not disputing the design, engineering and quality - all top notch. Seiko corporate made a decision decades ago on how far to differentiate Grand Seiko from Seiko. If branding is in your top 3 it says they didn’t go far enough. In my opinion, Seiko is blurring the lines even further by selling Seiko watches with spring drive movements.
I love all watches. I own several different brands. Each have there own likes/dislikes. Fair points you make. I have a titanium Dive watch SBGA213 and love it. I don’t love the clasp though. Still paid for it new though. Not enough to turn me away.
Let's get one thing straight, Seiko is a Japanese, Multinational Electronics company, that just happen to make watchers, just like Casio. "Grand" or otherwise, they are definitely not a luxury watch brand, more a high quality, entry-level consumer product. My main objections to GS, firstly, anything "Spring Drive". Let's be honest, technically advanced it may be, with it's quirky pseudo quartz mechanics, but a horological thoroughbred, really? Secondly, investment, or lack of. If you are okay with throwing your money down the tubes, then go for it, but if you seriously believe a GS will give you a decent return, I have a bridge to sell you!
@@spittinvenom9843 Is that so? I'll wager your investment indifferent philosophy, doesn't extend to the equity in your home, or any funds you have on deposit at the bank!
@@spittinvenom9843 if you love it enough, you should've wanted to pay a fortune for it. then why is the aftermarket performing so bad. They're all liars.
I'm an attorney and have one GS. I love how my evo 9 easily slips under my sleeve. The thin profile was one of the things I actually liked about it so funny you should mention that. By the way, nearly every GS video starts by talking about how rabid the fans are. Where do I find those people (apparently they all have samurai swords)? They sound interesting. :)
So many releases, with so much to like, but all with a bracelet that cannot be adjusted to fit my wrist. I’m half waiting for one thats perfect for me, but also dread that happening because I could not buy it unless the bracelet improves. I would love the sweep of the Spring drive, but cannot get my head around it basically being a quartz watch. If I did go for the spring drive, it would have to be one that has the power reserve on the back of the case. I think they should put the date there too 😎 I recently became aware of a watch with the Chronograph minute subdial on the rear, fantastic idea IMO.
Why are you Americans so obsessed with names? Grand Seiko sounds nice and is luxury. Period. Do you really think a different names is going to make any difference? People will still see it as a Seiko. You aren’t fooling anyone lol.
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I've commented before that I currently own Rolex, AP, Lange, FP Journe, Omega... and my last 7 watch purchases have all been GS... it's not a healthy addiction... but the quality of a GS (especially for the price) is incredibly hard to match...and its difficult for me to justify spending money on another brand at the moment.... and whenever I read comments about the bracelet I'm sincerely confused.. compared to my 116520 oyster bracelet, all my GS bracelets in my opinion put the Rolex to shame when it comes to finishing, looks, beveling, etc.. its not even close... the Rolex def wins in the clasp mechanism itself(much sturdier clasp) BUT NOT bracelet finishing, look and quality... put them side by side and its obvious.. the Rolex bracelet(and case) look like machine stamped products....in terms of thickness I have a 7.25 inch wrist and have always been attracted to sportier, thicker watches... and there is something in how GS designs their cases that make them sit comfortably on the wrist and thinner than the numbers would suggest... the new EVO 9 line has also improved this significantly... the branding does not bother me at all... as long as I know what I am wearing is special(hand finished, hand assembled, etc) is what gives me pleasure and satisfaction.. my GS watches now occupy 98% of my wrist time.. and like always.. to each their own
@r2l100 I remove the same amount of links on my GS as Rolex bracelets.. the only watch I didn't have to remove any links from is the Journe
@r2l100 im looking at the GS currently on my wrist as im reading what you wrote.. its a titanium gs.. and literally every single link is removable on this watch... good luck to you.. like i said before.. to each their own..
@r2l100 my daytona 116520 has 3 fixed links on each side.. my GS sbgh269 has 4 fixed links on each side.. both have same removable links... how big are your wrists?!? I bought my father a GS.. he has a 6 inch wrist.. and it fits perfectly
@japanwatchconnection who am I kidding? I own both these brands and many others... i hold them side by side... my Rolex watches look very average next to GS and the other warches I own.. Rolex easily wins in clasp feel and mechanism.. but thats it.. this is my opinion after many years of ownership
I love Grand Seikos as well and that is all I have been purchasing lately! Just dont overhype them and keep it as our secret because I personally dont want everyone to start buying them because I want it all to myself especially limited editions! I really hope Grand Seiko stays under the radar because I dont like competition and have to beg an AD to get one! They can stay with there rolexes and APs and pateks!
Rolex buyers buy the watch for others (to be noticed), Grand Seiko buyers buy for themselves (They are watch lovers not brand lovers)
Uhhhhh, almost true. Some of us do better
Then when you want to sell it...
@@gold9994not all people think buy watch to sell again
That's crap. I don't own a GD because I don't like The Design.
No thanks, I like keeping 95% of its value after taking it out of the box. Gl selling your POS that no one wants.
Great video and topic for discussion! My take on the three points as an owner of 3 GS watches:
1) Thickness: While not completely unfounded, paper dimensions aren't everything and you have to try some of the watches in person to see how they wear. Some GS watches have box sapphire crystals which add to the thickness but wear as if they were thinner, and even some of the "thicker" watches don't wear super thick due to the mid-case design and curvature of the case. If nothing else, it seems GS is moving towards thinner watches in their Evolution 9 cases.
2) Bracelet/Clasp: In my experience, the bracelets are fine and you can even tell they're thoughtfully crafted (i.e. shoulder bevels). Lack of micro-adjustments, while a fair gripe, is the trade-off for having a small clasp. I wonder though, if this is a bit of a double standard, as many higher-end watches don't have micradjustments (AP Royal Oak for example) and I don't hear nearly the complaining as with GS (if a lack of microadjustments would stop you from getting a GS, but not a Royal Oak, there are other factors influencing your decision)
3) Branding: If you view luxury as extrinsically derived (i.e. brand name cache, perception), then I can't say anything here. You buy the watches you want and like, and that's that. But it's objectively wrong to discount GS as a quality watch, just because of the branding. If you view luxury as intrinsically derived (i.e. the quality, artisan/craftmanship), then you'd be hardpressed to find something close to GS quality at the price point. If the branding turns you off, then don't buy it - but it's an incorrect statement to say it's a bad watch for that reason. The good news is that this issue with GS has been becoming less of an issue as people are beginning to recognize GS more and more
Thank you ! You make some great points too!
nice points
Straight facts!
Totally agree... and I own 3 GS too. I hope these complaints keep deterring those collectors as it keeps used prices down 👍
Jeffrey, excellent counters that just go to show it’s not the one with a RUclips channel that makes the most sense, especially when it comes to how luxury is perceived. Extrinsic v intrinsic appreciation differentiates so much in life, with the latter usually being more fulfilling and better for us all.
The bracelet isn’t the issue technically. It’s the clasp. That’s it. Put a better clasp with micro adjustments. That’s all. Do that and silence all your legitimate critics.
I have seen and held Grand Seikos in the flesh, and like many watch nuts said, the quality is top notch. The sweeping seconds hand on the spring drive models is truly satisfying, and the case dimensions are not as big as one would think. My birthday watch this year will definitely a GS.
I can think of 2500 reasons:
1. Cost
2. Cost
Skip...
2499. Cost of course
2500. And finally, Cost.
For Rolex skip to reason 18000.
😂 😊
Great video. I am an attorney and wear a SGBA211. I think the complaints about thickness in a suit are overstated.
My only complaint is the very mundane case. They are all exactly alike and very meh.
I recently purchased the sbga427 soko light. I feel it has the perfect dimensions in the 39 mm case. The fit and finish is great ....and the soko editions come with a leather strap with a deployant clasp. Alot of bang for 4.6 k. I have a smaller wrist
I've owned 3 Rolex. Great watches and the strongest brand in the watch industry and the resale value is second to none. That being said, I no longer own Rolex watches because I have 2 upper end Seikos .I'm purchasing a Grand Seiko for my next watch. To me, Grand Seiko is the complete package. BTW, great video.
Anything that brings competition and innovation into the watch industry is always welcome.
I now own 3 Grand Seikos and they are beautiful. I also own Omegas, Rolexs, and a Tag Heuer.
The Evolution 9 Collection fixed two of the problems. Thickness of ~11.9mm and an improved bracelet for a very sporty yet elegant piece. However, the clasp still needs on-the-fly micro adjustment.
The newer 9SA5 and 9RA2 movements are absolutely amazing! Yes, I own a GS.
@japanwatchconnection Here’s what Akio Naito, CEO of Seiko, recently said in an interview just last month. “One important event was the completion of the development of 9SA Caliber for us, a new platform for the high beat mechanical movement, and you are familiar with the [Hi Beat] 9SA5. But on the basis of that platform, we thought we were able to develop different calibers, and this is one of those options. So, even though I'm not supposed to be saying this, there are many more interesting things that will be coming.”
Hopefully, Akio meant a GMT is coming later this year.
@@tywinn5786 Can't wait for that GMT. If they can even get it to 13mm thick, it'd be so much more wearable for more wrist sizes
The picture quality in this video is really nice. Has a real soothing vibe 👍
The quartz is very innovative but can only be serviced by GS group as they make and keep the parts for it.
Yup. As a Grand Seiko owner and massive fan, those were the three things I thought you'd say:) With the bracelets, I've often wondered whether them being a bit thinner and more flexible than say Omega, etc., is actually a market preference in JDM---for exactly the reason as you said that they are *definitely not* cutting any corners anywhere. Absolutely love my champagne dial SGBA201, though matter of fact it gets noticed and starts conversations much more than anything else I've worn. The zaratsu and ridiculously classy dial stand out as obviously luxury, and I get a lot of "woah; what's that?". But sure, it's definitely not like a President or a gold AP or something like that...(which I don't own).
I own the SBGP001 and love it as a dress watch. I paid $2400 USD and duty free in Japan. No hassle with AD like with Rolex.
Body Language: Try watching this video with the audio off. Doesn't it look like someone trying hard to talk himself out of a sticky situation; e.g. principal's office, in front of an angry spouse, convincing a loan shark to give him another week...? So what does that say about the content of this video?
never understood GS. Their watches are nice but nothing special. Decent deal used as they're way over priced at retail.
I used to own the SBGJ201 Mt. Iwate Hi-Beat GMT. The polishing was amazing and so was the dial. The thickness was an issue even for my 6 3/4" wrist. Additionally, the bracelet was fine from a fit and finish perspective, but the clasp is where it really falls down. The top heavy nature GS watches demands a good fit on the bracelet, which you can't get due to 0 micro-adjust. Otherwise, I loved the watch. This did cause me to sell it and got the Tudor Black Bay Chrono Reverse Panda and love this watch.
I just wanted to take a moment to say how amazing your video was! I was really impressed with the quality of the footage, the editing, and the overall presentation. You did a great job of explaining the topic in a clear and concise way, and I learned a lot from watching your video.
Grand Seiko bracelets on the heritage line is just as comfortable as Rolex Oystersteel bracelet. I think there is a line between comfort level and comfort derived from knowing how well you can adjust the bracelet. And I think the latter should be diminished as a molehill, rather than emphasized like the mountain. Because adjustability on a luxury watch is more of your AD's problem than your own. At least it is here; ADs will adjust watches free-of-charge and they will do it properly.
The point thicknesses do not understand.
Speedmaster 13mm vs. 11.8mm SLGA009 Spring Drive.
I bought the SE SLGH009. Good or bad idea? Eye on investment side.
How does Grand Seiko compare to Ball Watch?
I tried couple of Spring Drive automatic Seikos and I agree with the comment about thickness. Didnt like it a lot. But then I tried the Omiwatari nd fell in love. Its thinner, elegant, spring drive but manual wind. Mesmerizing dial and finish. So I pulled the trigger. One downside of that model is the length of the croc strap, surprisingly too long.
GRAND SEIKO may be a manufacturer to AVOID! Here's why ...
Bought a brand new Lake Suwa Ref 021 with the Spring Drive in Japan after hearing how great GS was.
It's supposed to have a 5 day power reserve. I got the watch for a family member as a gift thinking this would truly be a watch he could enjoy for years to come.
Never wore or sized the watch. Absolutely brand new from authorized Grand Seiko dealer in Japan. I just opened it up and wound the power reserve to near full and hoped to see it last for up to 5 days. Two days later I go back to see the watch that's in the box and it's stopped running! Now this can't be normal right? Since I don't live in Japan I couldn't go back to the selling dealer. So I went to my local GS dealer in my country and he said this is not normal. He said let us bring it to our Grand Seiko watch repair center to see what they say. 4 days later they tell me oh this is something ONLY Japan can repair and because this model is so new we are not equipped to repair this!
I said so I paid about for a new watch and it has to go back to Japan for about a month or more to get repaired? I requested that Grand Seiko simply replace the unit with a new unit and he said they could not do that. I find this practice to be unethical, poor business sense, and a quick way to lose brand loyalty, of which they have not even yet established yet.
SO basically I have to pay in full, never get any use from the purchase, and it has to go to Japan for repairs for God knows how long.
Not sure Grand Seiko Marketing or Director of Sales would find this remedy to be fair.
Anyways, that's my experience with GS so far and no I won't recommend this brand to anyone. If you have any suggestions kindly let me know.
I'm not upset that the watch has issues because any mechanical item could go wrong, but only after 2 days and never being worn? What's annoying is how the company has not stepped up and addressed this issue but simply expects the consumer that just paid full retail to now wait several months to get a "repaired" watch back! How is this logical to any major brand bidding to get loyal clients? I decided to reach out to Grand Seiko top management and see if they will intervene and do the right thing.
Just wanted to share my experience with GS with your viewers as well. Again, this could very well be an anomaly, but how they are handling this situation is very unprofessional for such a large company.
Thank you
Any update?
Grand Seiko and Rolex owner here, among many others, but I find myself just admiring and admiring the look, feel, finish, and craftsmanship of the Grand Seikos more than Rolex and just about anything. I think it’s definitely true that Rolexes may impress others, but Grand Seiko impresses their owners.
Having an SBGW231 that is 37.3 at 12.something it wears amazing and its incredibly clean. Not going to convince anyone if you should have one or not it is almost perfect to me. I love their watches and I also love Panerai...
I have had my black dial SBGX261G for 6 months now and I am still fascinated by the great wrist presence of the Grand seiko with it's flashing and sparkling hour markers.
I love the bracelet - it is very comfortable on my smaller wrist, it sits very well and does not 'pull'. The lack of an 'extension' is a problem in hot weather but that is not often a problem in the UK. (!) However, ALL steel bracelets should have a discreet extension...it's a vital component which needs addressing.
(Eg: I will not be buying another higher end GS model (or any other brand which has a steel bracelet) until this basic requirement is addressed.
IWC has a brilliant bracelet extension....at the price point - its the clincher!
i have the same watch. best watch i´ve had... So comfortable, simple and versatile.
I always watch this video when I want to fall sleep.
Another concern is having to send my GS for service at the Mahwah, NJ service center. Horrendous after purchase customer service, sloppy work, absolute incompetence with little recourse when you get back a butchered watch. It is an embarrassment that Seiko allows this place to continue as they do.
Owner of a SBGA443. Bracelet is roughly the same as the SBGR053 I owned 8 or so years ago, though the lighter titanium is great. Lack of microadjustments is still a problem. Looked into the Evo9 bracelets and they seem slightly better, but no idea what a 22mm bracelet is doing on a 40mm watch. The Japanese seem to almost make a perfect watch, but always has something funky going on to not get the perfect mark. Maybe GS will get to microadjustments sometime down the line. For now I’m waiting on the Steel Reef to provide a solution.
I don’t see many talk about this but for all the dark dials they make that are gorgeous the lack of AR coating makes them just pick up reflections like crazy.
I have Grand Seiko, Tudor, Hamilton and some others. I actually like the weight of my Grand Seiko over those two. The Tudor 41 Royal is actually really nice. I wear the Seiko over it because of the weight. I love my Hamilton but it’s heavy. So they all have their place
My GS bracelet clasp has very sharp edges that irritate my wrist. I've filed and filed but titanium is HARD and filing isn't going to work. Maybe a grinder. :)
What about service costs?
I value the branding BECAUSE it has the Seiko name in it. Seiko watches have an X factor than I can never describe to non watch people but get two (non-mall) Seiko owners together and we can’t stop talking about them. The fact that they have this premium line that they consider even more artful than their regular offerings makes them all the more appealing to include the proud Seiko name, as if to say “even more Seiko!”
I have the SLGA009 (evolution 9 case, spring drive movement, white birch dial) that was released earlier in 2022 and I fully agree with all your points. It is on the thick side (it's a "summer watch" for me), the bracelet is very good but does not reach the best Rolex sports model (yet), and I still consider it a geek watch, brand-wise. I'm ok with all of that.
However, you forgot to mention its biggest point: you can actually walk in a boutique and buy it. Try doing that with a Submariner! :D
I have the same piece, I'll say that I kind of like the thickness with this piece because it helps make the watch head proportional to the bracelet and matches the overall heft of the assembly felt on the wrist.
The case is under 12mm, what are you comparing it to, to think it's thick? It's near as makes no difference the same thickness as the Datejust
3 reasons are: perception problems ("you paid how much for a Seiko?!" comments), uninspired designs (vanilla or derivative), and resale values. Those would be my 3.
What is your wrist circumference?
This video needs 2, maybe 3 more shirts than it currently has. That is all.
I think you just want to see his n.. __ipples as he changes from shirt to shirt. 🌈
Great episode. Thanks addressing these subjects.
Thank you!
Thanks for your video..I am planning to buy my first GS..
I prefer their bracelets to Omega, the giant Omega clasps annoy me. What I dislike about Grand Seiko is their lack of lume on non-sport models. I know traditional dress watches aren’t lumed but I appreciate even a touch on all my watches. Also not a fan of their habit of placement of power reserve indicators .
After owning the golden flake and touching rolexes in the metal, i would still choose a GS SD over any 10 rolexes that you counter.
@japanwatchconnection hence, one has to ask himself a crucial question. Am investing in a watch? Or am I wearing a watch i like?
@japanwatchconnection sure. If you happen to like it. But not for me.
What glasses are those?
Totally agree with your point on thickness in this video - and I own four GS watches. Wear them all regularly and constantly looking for new ones. Though I find the bracelets amazing. Not one sharp edge and as nicely crafted as the rest of the watch. GS is AP and VC quality - have those brands too and GS is on par in terms of quality,
You nailed it on all fronts. It’s the damn name and bracelets for me
Hi John, I have a Grand Seiko SBGA283 and a Rolex 114300 Blue and they seem like almost the same watch to me. OK the Rolex has loom but the GS has a very good date complication. The Rolex cost me $8k used. The GS cost me $3800 new with box and papers. The Rolex has a beautiful blue dial (or Grape) the GS has a stunning silver dial. Pick the one you like or like me pick them both. They are both great watches.
i have the shunbun.. hate the bracelets. switched it off for a strapcode
As a Snowflake owner and use it as my daily watch, I have no issue with the thickness or bracelet. But the clasp not having micro adjustment is slightly annoying. I have to do link changes for summer and winter to adjust for the heat and wrist size change. They do need a better marketing department and need to work on their factory outreach quite a bit.
It's in the name. Lexus or Grand Toyota .... Lincoln or Grand Ford .... Porsche or Grand VW ... Ferrari or Grand Fiat ... Lamborghini or Grand Audi/VW!
The other reasons are superfluous.
The GS clasp does catch the cuff but that’s not a deal breaker for me. The elegance line is fine for that especially with its thinner case (hand wind movement).
As a new owner of a sbgv245 that I bought after reading and watching a lot of positive reviews, I now find myself selling my speedmaster to a friend of mine because I no longer have the want to wear it. The GS is just absolutely gorgeous and I find myself just admiring the workmanship. I don't care if it's a quartz, even that can be discussed. I also own a reverso so I will still have a mechanical watch in my collection.
have the exact same model too amongst other GS's. Love their quartz watches look the bizz, super accurate +/- 10 sec per year. GS will probably offer tapered bracelets as an option or produced as standard and non tapered as an alternative.
Hi John, I am very impressed with the 4 seasons line. You are correct as to your observations. I can't imagine a Grand Toyota instead of Lexus.
You are absolutely right John P. The thickness is the problem. I only wish they would redesign the case a little slimmer and the bracelet a little sturdier.
As an sbga229 owner can’t disagree more on the bracelet. Had for over a year and a half and it’s super comfortable and the diver extension is imo the best in the game. From what I’ve noticed I received an updated clasp on mine (something that wasn’t advertised I believe) so some peoples perceptions may be unfounded based on the earlier iterations
Many of our customers who bought Grad Seiko watches online ended up putting them on consignment in our jewelry store. 6 months later not a single customer has shown any interest.
Thats not surprising. Consigning in a brick and mortar is probably the dumbest way to sell any watch without a crown on the dial @@Notfiveo0
I own the sbga375, spring drive, midnight blue dial and in the 44gs case... stunning watch its a keeper for me.. I find the bracelet comfortable on my hairy arm, the thickness has never bothered me and when I went out in search of a 40th bd pressie for myself I search extensively.. tried on dozens of watches and I found the whole experience in GS boutique far more pleasant than that of omega, oris, cartier, longines etc.. those that dismiss GS for the reason of them having seiko on the dial come across as narrowminded and status driven or maybe they to busy worrying about what other people would think of them if they were to own and wear one... GS in my experience of watch hunting was by far the best quality watch, most innovative company where horology is concerned and if you can allow ones self to see past the seiko and hype of other watches they are hyperwatches for entry level prices
A lot of GS watches are thick is because of the boxed sapphire which is awesome. If they went with flat sapphire, the watch would be really thin but not as esthetically pleasing and beautiful. Boxed sapphire is the way to go.
I just purchased a Grand Seiko GMT SBGN029. The bracelet is perfect. No issues!!!! The entire time piece is outstanding...
I love the Seiko Prospex with the SPB and SLA diver lines. That dovetails into GS. GS is still not a pop culture phenomenon like Rolex and Omega. But that doesn’t make them a bad brand. It makes GS new. And I love the GS on the dial.
I’m selling my date just chocolate dial everose for the slgh013 ,yes the claps aren’t as good as other brands but that’s a small thing,thanks
'Maybe you are an attorney and have to wear a certain type of shirts.' Great argument.
A fitted to case curved 21/22mm strap with a deployment clasp would be nice, but micro adjustment on a bracelet seems too much of an effort for GS.
They should make a replacement micro adjust clasp available to be retro fitted.
There are a great many replicas of the more popular prestige watches around these days, as I enquired about the price of a very nice looking Rolex submariner in a Cash Converters Pawn Shop in Brisbane Australia and was informed that it was a 'fake' so even if you own the genuine article then it may be perceived as a fake by others who may even be quite interested in watches. The Spring drive would be very difficult to replicate as I can't think of any watch movement that has a perfect sweeping seconds hand to put in a cheap replica so this one feature alone puts Seiko ahead of all the others.
I'm looking at a Heritage 40 or 42 right now.
I just bought a grand GMT 39 mm Ione omega Rolex. Tutor And long gene and the watch was used. I got a good deal on it. It's like brand new and it Is second to no other watch Bread? Beautiful watch not too flashy. Perfect finish perfect color I love it. I also own a couple tags.
You’re right about the thickness, although some will say that it’s subjective..however almost 15 mm for a dressier piece like the SBGM221 for example is a little steep especially for a watch under 40mm. I realize it’s a GMT but it’s neither a hi beat or spring drive. The bracelets do seem like an afterthought when you look at the attention to detail given to the case and dial finishing but even if I were to give that a pass the clasps were lackluster. I would take a slightly larger clasp for more adjustability
I have an SBGM221 and as some have posted, it doesn’t wear nearly as thick as the dims on paper. My recommendation is not to get caught up in paper specs but to try the watches on in person. They truly are exceptional and unique watches at an incredible value. Like nothing else on the market IMO.
How about you trying out a NivAda Grechen Chronomaster aviator Seadiver for awhile now that the company has been revived?
They have come a long way. I'm warming up to the branding. It's too late to make a big change now, but way back when they started Grand Seiko they could have set the GS brand apart as a luxury subsidiary in the way that Honda (Acura), Nissan (Infiniti) and Toyota (Lexus) did. That way no one can say that they're not going to pay that kind of money for a watch that says Seiko on the dial.
I think Grand Seiko is a great name.
It is loud and proud. Having a different name is not fooling anyone lol.
If the watch is good enough, people will buy it.
Do you really think the people who say they would not pay ‘that much’ for a watch with Seiko on, were ever going to pay ‘that much’ for any watch? 😂
They have. It’s called “Credor” or “Crête d’or” but mostly a japan only brand which make little sense as it is the most French or Swiss sounding one.
i don t like the Fraktur blackletter typeface used in grand seiko logo
Hi John, I agree totally and have left plenty of comments on the braclet and clasps, GS has done all the hard work so to make these improvements are not going to be difficult, remember the Japanese are masters of copying and improveing along with being true innovators, it's just a matter of time only.
Yes!
I own three heritage models: SBGA283 (Spring Drive), SBGN011 (9F with GMT), and a SBGP005 (9F). The bracelets were all difficult to fit and are somewhat ill-fitting to this day. From the beginning I wondered why GS didn't spend more on bracelet development and production, but no product is perfect. I am sure that there is a corporate reason why GS has yet to address this. In fact, they likely hear no criticisms in their major markets. When it comes to luxury watches, I think that it is beneficial to remember the Rolling Stones, and we just might find that we've gotten what we need. GS, like every other watch manufacturer, is what it is, and it is producing watches to make money. I hate to say it but buyers can either buy and adapt or buy another brand. As you say JohnP, this will change as their market share in the US and Europe grows.
"I am sure that there is a corporate reason why GS has yet to address this." I think the reason why GS bracelets are so shit, is they have been paid off by the swiss watch industry to essentially cripple their products. There's no other logical reason for why bracelet development has not moved an inch in over 10 years.
@@gmshadowtraders Afraid I might have to agree. The one I wear the most, the 005, sports an Erika’s Original.
I’m not a watch expert, but I do own five Grand Seikos, so here are my thoughts. First, I agree on the thickness. All of my GS watches are very thick and you are spot on, with the smaller ones the thickness is more evident. Second, I think GS bracelets are fine. But their clasps suck. I have regular Seikos with better clasps than my GSs. Last I could care less about the branding or status. I buy watches I like. I really don’t care if someone else knows it’s an expensive or nice watch.
Please give specifics in mm
Thank you for bringing up these points.
If you have money to collect watches such as GS, then you have money for bespoke shirts to accommodate the watch under your wrist or at least MTM shirts.
Complete agree with the micro adjustment point. We need that ASAP. The world needs it!
Branding, who cares.
I thought the screen of my phone had some dirt on it....I realized that it wasn't my phone at the second time I tried to clean it up, LOL.
If your perception is that Seiko is a lesser brand, you know nothing about watches. Best go buy a Hublot and tell everyone how much it cost.
Grand seiko asks minase to produce a bracelet. Die bracelets on the dividos arme amazing and you can change every link in the bracelet
7:53 "really looking forward to what. Grand Seiko. Does with them. In. The. Future."
Nice robotic vibes brah!
Grand Seiko snowflake with a Colareb navy leather strap is the one watch collection I’d need. So versatile from very formal to smart casual situations and unbelievably beautiful in person. Jack of all trades and quite slim IMO.
1.5 seconds a month accuracy. Amazing shock and magnetic resistant case and movement. No batteries to leak and a watch your grandchildren can inherit. It could be had for £3400 directly from Japan during covid pandemic when none of us cared for watches. No other watch can beat that.
I sometimes wonder how huge / populair for instance JLC would be if they would have made Grand Seiko the models.
Thanks a lot John, for a very informative video on this brand. I’ve been collecting for about five years. About four years ago salesman in a watch shop showed me Grand Seiko. I wasn’t impressed. The watch was just rather bland looking compared to what I was used to. Since then, I keep hearing about how great they are, some even believe them to be superior to Rolex. I was in a jewelers about a month ago and I saw them again. This time my eyes lit up. I saw the very different kind of charm that they possess, very Japanese. Now I am considering adding one to my collection as the quality is hard to deny. I haven’t decided what I will buy but it will have to be used as I can’t afford the new ones. I’ve been shopping online, just looking around, not anywhere near ready to buy yet. This video is really help me to understand the brand better and to be aware of the pitfalls involved. It hasn’t eterred me in the least bit as most of the things you mention don’t bother me, but I always like to be well informed before I buy. Thanks for the help.
branding and bracelet is never really what turned me away from the brand. even before i was into watches when i first learned about grand seiko it was like "oh this is their luxury brand makes sense i assume it's good quality" and the bracelet i mean if i've never owned another luxury watch bracelet then i won't know what im missing from other bracelets.
what did turn me away was what sounds like a headache for servicing spring drive movements, and the 41mm size on the snow flake since i have really small wrists
Love my GS Green Dial GMT Peacock!
At first i did not like the Bracelet looking a bit like a boring Omega Seamaster Bracelet but after a While i got used to it and the Finishing is just great; the Clasp ist fairly ok.
Thickness Point is also true; still the Watch is easy to wear.
Finally i love my Peacock, the Dial ist incredible, in my Eyes the most beautiful Green Dial on the Market and the Polishing and Quality of Finishing is outstanding.
For me its a Keeper!
Im not a fan of GS.... just adding the word Grand to Seiko feels weird for me. i do like Seiko though and have many models in my collection including Seiko LX which is the only way i can get the spring drive movement without buying an actual GS.
Another thing that really annoys me is the lack of global service centers! The fact that your GS has to go back to Japan for service is ridiculous and they are not too reliable neither. My Spring Drive went back after it stopped everything I put it down, even when the power reserve says it’s full. The White Birch went back because it was way outside the stated spd tolerance.
Seriously, in terms of robustness, they are nowhere near Omega or Rolex. I have been riding my bike with my Speedie and had my Explorer 2 bumping around while riding them eScooters around Europe and neither lost or gain a second, it’s incredible.
I have been around for decades so the Grand Seiko bracelets neve felt bad to me. My 1990s Submariner certainly does not have a better one. What I love about Grand Seiko is the dials, the great movements, and the design. I own three and may own more in the future. Other watches I own are Rolex and IWC, and while I love my IWCs I think Grand Seiko has a more consistent design language and better value all things considered.
Waiting for my Roli (takes forever :(
LOL... I am wearing my Sky Flake as I watch your vid. I have a 7.5 inch mid to small wrist. Not chunky at all. Not sure about the bracelet, it seems Ok so far. The thing that bugs me is that I cannot get a stainless GS bracelet back up for my stock beautiful croc strap. I called my AD in my city and he said, nope!
I think Grand Seiko should rebrand and call themselves GS... drop the Seiko. It is gorgeous and blows most Suisse watches out of water when you look what's under the hood.
$6k 😢 that is the part that I am having a hard time with.. love the tech of automatic + quartz.
John, the branding is the main issue. If It wasn’t a thing, it wouldn’t be a thing. I’m not disputing the design, engineering and quality - all top notch. Seiko corporate made a decision decades ago on how far to differentiate Grand Seiko from Seiko. If branding is in your top 3 it says they didn’t go far enough. In my opinion, Seiko is blurring the lines even further by selling Seiko watches with spring drive movements.
I love all watches. I own several different brands. Each have there own likes/dislikes.
Fair points you make.
I have a titanium Dive watch SBGA213 and love it. I don’t love the clasp though. Still paid for it new though. Not enough to turn me away.
Currently own an icon from most major brands, GS on my target 🎯 list
Let's get one thing straight, Seiko is a Japanese, Multinational Electronics company, that just happen to make watchers, just like Casio. "Grand" or otherwise, they are definitely not a luxury watch brand, more a high quality, entry-level consumer product. My main objections to GS, firstly, anything "Spring Drive". Let's be honest, technically advanced it may be, with it's quirky pseudo quartz mechanics, but a horological thoroughbred, really? Secondly, investment, or lack of. If you are okay with throwing your money down the tubes, then go for it, but if you seriously believe a GS will give you a decent return, I have a bridge to sell you!
If you buy what you love, and you weren’t concerned with looking at it as an investment, it’s a legacy
@@spittinvenom9843 Is that so? I'll wager your investment indifferent philosophy, doesn't extend to the equity in your home, or any funds you have on deposit at the bank!
@@spittinvenom9843 if you love it enough, you should've wanted to pay a fortune for it. then why is the aftermarket performing so bad.
They're all liars.
I'm an attorney and have one GS. I love how my evo 9 easily slips under my sleeve. The thin profile was one of the things I actually liked about it so funny you should mention that. By the way, nearly every GS video starts by talking about how rabid the fans are. Where do I find those people (apparently they all have samurai swords)? They sound interesting. :)
Why do all of they all have holes cases? That just kills the elegance for me.
So many releases, with so much to like, but all with a bracelet that cannot be adjusted to fit my wrist.
I’m half waiting for one thats perfect for me, but also dread that happening because I could not buy it unless the bracelet improves.
I would love the sweep of the Spring drive, but cannot get my head around it basically being a quartz watch.
If I did go for the spring drive, it would have to be one that has the power reserve on the back of the case.
I think they should put the date there too 😎
I recently became aware of a watch with the Chronograph minute subdial on the rear, fantastic idea IMO.
theres a very important reason why there thick and its because it makes them and the parts last longer and is more robust for every day wearing
Grand seiko does make hand wind mechanical watches that are thin… also the 9f are thin
Why are you Americans so obsessed with names? Grand Seiko sounds nice and is luxury. Period. Do you really think a different names is going to make any difference? People will still see it as a Seiko.
You aren’t fooling anyone lol.