Why Was Dracovish Banned in Competitive Pokemon? Smogon
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- Опубликовано: 8 фев 2025
- Why Was Dracovish Banned in Competitive Pokemon?
Pokemon can be crazy sometimes.
Competitive Pokemon refers to Smogon's competitive singles played on play.pokemonshowdown.com The tier is SS OU.
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"The crack heads at Game Freak gave Dracovish Strong Jaw" that made me laugh very hard.
Yep.
While making rend get boosted by strong jaw and doubled when moving first
But then gave dracozolt hustle, so vish can get strong freakin jaw but Zolts boosting ability is the trash hustle...
I remember when megas just dropped in gen 6 and people saw Megas Luc and someone said "it looks like GF took our suggestions about Huge Power Slaking literally
@@HotFootBunny hustle isnt trash, just ask durant
I was gonna say "we all know" and yeah he acknowledged that at the start
When I saw the video the first thing I said out loud was “we already know” 😭
The additional info was still interesting.
I for one had no idea, I barely even knew Dracovish was a Pokemon at all lol
It changes things, not playing for a few years.
funny fish bite hard
oh hey dj
Still find it funny how Gamefreak found a way to make a non Kyorge Water Pokémon that can somehow still 2HKO some of the best Water resists in the game. Even a Pokémon like Ash Gren had to rely on Spikes, and needed to pick up a kill to transform
Meanwhile Regigigas still has his awful ability lmao
@@piratebear3126 True, except simultaneously false. In Legends Arceus, a SINGLE PLAYER GAME with NO ABILITIES, they went out of their way to program in slow start for it. Seriously. There are genuinely no mons with anything resembling an ability other than maybe Arceus itself, and they still had to make regigigas suck even though it's postgame exclusive. Golem fans always losing (unless you count eleki I guess, I traded mine to a friend and still haven't done a second playthrough for another one so I'm just SoL).
@@stargobble4342 Cherim still transforms during heavy sun ,which in normal games is due its ability.
I believe there’s also pressure
I had some succes running Assault Vest Regigigas alongside cofagrigus in singles. Sending out Regigigas after turning the opponents ability into Mummy, either guarantees a switch or intstantly gives you a bulky sweeper after a power up punch. I also ran Facade, since opponents very often Burned or Poisoned my Regigigas.
I feel Slow Start should be bulked so it slows the Pokemon the first three turns, then it goes to normal, then it raises the stats one stage. It would be brutal.
keep in mind: STAB *Explosion* has a base power of only 375, can't be made even stronger with weather, can't hit for super effective damage and causes your own pokemon to instantly die.
V Create combo Vintini does 407 damage with STAB plus Sunny Day/Drought setup
@@Kali_Krause vcreate also has a drawback, while first move fishious rend doesnt
u could use galvanise explosion in electric terrain ngl
@@loomianlagacy9865 Or Refrigerate Explosion
@@InductionMagnet It has a drawback, just a different one.
Some say the Regi puzzles are hard.
Some say the Abyssal Ruins are hard.
But I think "How in the world Dracovish got past testing" is the biggest puzzle this series has ever seen.
I dont think Game Freak do any testing since they don't have to worry about 6v6 singles
Testing was probably done in vgc format, where it was mid tier at best and nobody used it after the first few months
Cinderace, Galar Darmanitan and Zacian: Allow us to introduce ourselves
@@UltraAryan10 I would still expect them to have done some given that 90% of most peoples time playing pokemon is in singles
This gen had alot of pokemon that were just comically overpowered
Just a reminder that the guy who gave us Dracovish also was the same guy that gave us Aegislash. He also gave us one of the most frustrating mega man robot masters too(Burner Man from MM&B.)
Give that man a payraise, I say!
He just wants to watch the world burn...
whats your link? How do you know who created which pokemon?
@@JML689 source: trust me bro
The same guy who created Cazadores in new vegas
Honestly, this somehow reminds me of Soul Dew Latias/Latios. And I think that might be a fun topic to talk about for a video, as I remember Soul Dew is probably one of the only items to actually be banned from PWT in BW2. So talking a little about Soul Dew Latias/Latios would be nice and give a sense for how powerful it was back then.
I still think they should've made it either a 1.3 boost when they nerfed it, rather than a 1.2, or also given some defensive boost (even just have it so that it can't be knocked off and doesn't give the boost to knock off, like if it was a z crystal or mega stone), since as is it's a signature item of two legendary pokemon that is basically never run, even in the rare occasions that they're used in OU. Boosting Psychic and Dragon moves isn't exactly that big of a deal in a metagame where everyone has to be running a steel type anyway, not when your steel coverage options are the 80 bp aura sphere (which doesn't pickup key 2HKOs on things like Heatran without specs) or the 75 bp mystical fire (which doesn't touch Heatran, and doesn't even OHKO ferrothorn without specs, only a 50% chance to with them, meaning that you can still potentially have your item knocked off) for steel coverage
@@auroraourania7161 maybe change the item to a percent increase in Special Attack and Special Defense, rather than just Dragon and Psychic moves.
Yeah didn't it give you 1.5x special attack and special defense? It was an assault vest and a choice specs at the same time without the drawbacks of either, that was so broken
@@someone-cs1ix yep up until gen 6 it was just free calm mind upon switch in
@@ArceusX300 damn, autocorrect be like
Honestly if they just flipped Bolt Beak and Fisheous Rend to only give the boost if the user moves *last* instead of first, it would be much more balanced, albeit still pretty scary for anything that tries to switch into it.
Nah, it’s be even more busted because you’d only ever run choice band. You wouldn’t ever invest into speed, so you could go all in on bulk, and revenge kill every single offensive non in the game
@@Kosecant or get hit pretty hard. There would be way more counterplay to it boosting if you’re slower, because slow, strong pokemon could likely ohko/2hko it if you decide to lock yourself to it fisheous rend/bolt beak. It would probably only be good on trick room teams and against fast, frail, opponents if it were to become like that.
Edit: also it has middling speed and defensive stats, so it’s not slow enough to beat Hatterene in trick room, and not bulky enough to withstand a freeze dry, or moonblast from a decent special attacker.
@@SunshineRey except slow pokemon arent offensive pokemon in ou, and you would have 5 other members of your team to take care of them. there are pokemon in ou that can kill kyogre, that doesnt mean we need to bring it down
@@SunshineRey like yeah it isnt the tank of the century… but why would you keep it in on hatterene trick room(something hatterene could already do). idk why that makes you think it would be bad
Draco would go down but actrovish can be more threatening then...not as much as Draco due to its typing but still quite much
That’s not even getting into the ethics of making and owning a Dracovish.
turns out that committing atrocities of nature births horrifyingly powerful beings
@@shiny9690 we already knew that. Mewtwo.
Arctovish is even worse lol, the poor thing cant even breath/eat properly.
@@Skullhawk13 The Gen 8 fossils are quite arguably far less ethical than Mewtwo.
@@GraceOfJarvis was replying to a different comment that’s deleted now
I'll never forget the blunder vid with the thumbnail of dracovish doing 100% to pex. This is a real calc: 252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Toxapex in Rain: 277-327 (91.1 - 107.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
i mean it still isnt doing 100, and the toxapex has to be no defense, and it has to be rain, and it has to be choice band. but still
@@azu1394 its the fact that a RESISTED hit can 1 hit a TOXAPEX of all things, that's just insane
@@creativename7021 i mean yeah under the perfect conditions it has a chance to
@@azu1394 the stars do need to align and no good player was running a zero defence pex with the vish around, but the fact its possible and did happen in a real game (prior to everyone using dracovish that is) is proof of how broken dracovish is
People often underestimate the importance of BP. Despite it's abysmal 50 BS in SpA, swellow was really threatening in lower tiers thanks to it's 140 BP move. So I knew before the start that a 170 STAB move would go to be devastating, but if we add the strong jaw boost and the potential rain, yes, it may be a little too much for OU
Then they buffed Swellow's Sp. Atk to 75
People forget BP power but then run things like Crobat or Talonflame without Brave Bird and wonder what is going on.
As a wise man once said: "If Talonflame has taught me anything is that 120 BP moves do big damage even when coming off a base attack stat of 81"
@@madjester9844 If talonflame has taught me anything it’s that giving priority to a move over 100 BP+STAB and then giving priority recovery is insane
What does BP and BS mean?
382.5 without items or weather is insane. In rain with a choice band, it becomes an 860 power move!!
Wtf
Does it also come with a belly drum boost?
Calculated everything...
Rain, +6 atk, choice band, crit, -6 def on opponent...
A neutral hit costs 22500 damage...
Yea, not even BLISSEY can handle that...
I'll edit this on a lvl 1 numel. Hold on.
Edit: same set on lvl 1 numel...
64664 damage...
@@MisterSleep1123 I feel like that's just spiteful at this point lmao. Another fun calc is that specs Charizard 2HKOs blissey with weather ball in sun. I realize that that's a lot of support needed, since you also need multiple hazard removers since a 4x weakness to stealth rock without HDBs is brutal, but anything being able to 2HKO blissey with a special attack that's not psyshock or a move like it, let alone one that isn't super effective, is crazy to me. It also gets very solid coverage for any real switch-ins (solar beam for tapu fini and other bulky water types, scorching sands for heatran (focus blast is also also available, but is focus blast so eww), there's basically nothing other than chansey that can switch into it without fear in OU, even in Ubers specially defensive Palkia has a 50% chance of being 2HKOed after stealth rock, although Kyogre and less hazard removal options means it would be pretty bad there anyway
Choice Band does not affect base power.
Somewhere, I bet rampardos is flipping a table after this misassembled mishmash ended up being the fossil 'mon to be OP.
"It's hard to remember a Pokemon so directly overpowered"
Literally in the same generation you have Galarian Darmanitan, both Zacian forms, and arguably Spectrier
But zacian and spectrier are Legendary so they were meant to be that way
I actually freakin' hate galarian darmanitan for not giving me the choice of not using choice items.
@@Ultra289 Both Zacian forms were banned from Ubers. Not just the Crowned form. Even the beat-up looking one. And I did say Spectrier was arguable, I'd wager it was on the level of something like Landorus-I or Genesect, but it is pretty funny how stupidly good it was in OU in spite of it's terrible coverage
@@StarshadowMelody paralyze it, mud slap it, Spore it, use double team, minimize, flash it...
Spectrier isn't even close to dracovish
It was really fun using Dracovish early in the meta game when everyone hadn’t caught on to it’s ridiculous power yet.
ah the good ol OHKO spdef toxapex in rain then opponent proceeds to type !dt fisheous rend combo
@@yoshiiyosh You just awakened some great memories. God I miss my precious little Dracovish.
"you already know this answer but i thank you for clicking anyway" LMAOOOO
"the crackheads at GameFreak" made me almost spit out my water, thanks Freezai
I looked at Dracovish's stats and I didn't think it could possible even survive in UU.
That was before I learned the sheer power of Fishous Rend
add in the fact that its typing is water dragon and the small number of mons that can survive a hit from it have no chance to oneshot it unless they have access to freeze dry.
Yea honestly rend carries this to the point where its a mon with PU/ZU stats that viable in ubers
A video on Shaymin and the fact it was the first truly unanimous ban would be neat.
(I know it was Shaymn-Sky that was the issue, but still. Serene Grace + Strong special effects is a strategy that never goes out of style, as proven by Togekiss.)
the shaymin ban is sort of half misunderstood as being entirely the result of air slash when seed flare is arguably much more problematic
like 60% flinch is annoying, but a 100bp 100% accuracy move with no downsides AND an 80% to halve the opponents special defense makes switching in completely impossible, everything excluding blissey and chansey would get 2hko'd after one seed flare drop and even for those two you could rely on stupid flinches.
@@helvetica6189 I know Shaymin-Sky was banned for Seed Flare or w/e, not flinching, just that Togekiss seems to be running with the same general idea of harassing people using Serene Grace.
@@DeisFortunayeah i know serene grace flinching is really good, i just dont like how shaymin-s is really only remembered for the flinching when there was a bit more to it (at least compared to pokemon like togekiss and jirachi where their entire reason for being good half the time is flinching lol)
@@helvetica6189 I though seed flare wasn't 100% accurate
@@camoking3609 yea i got it wrong its 120bp 85% accuracy
I think it’s also important to note why dracozolt was not banned. With hustle and a higher attack stat Zolt is actually a bit stronger than vish, but because electric is an extremely common immunity and the inherent unreliability of hustle, dracozolt could never be as good as dracovish
You forgot two things : No rain buff, and I think strong jaw > hustle in term of damage
Ground types are much easier to slot in a team than Water Absorb and an anti-Vish Toxapex, and Strong Jaw is just fucking nuts. 10 more base attack doesn't count as much as 1.5x. Hustle spreads the 1.5x love to the other move slots (assuming those moves are not bite moves), but giving the opponent a free Double Team is potentially crippling, and if you're using moves besides Fishious Rend/Bolt Beak on these guys you're probably doing something very, VERY wrong.
Hustle is so bad that Arctozolt is just better overall
@@ShaunzJenkins Hustle grants the same damage boost, the problem is the accuracy drop.
@@DamonDraven Oh alright then, thank you :)
Funny, day 1 of sword and shield I was telling all my friends "this thing is fucking broken this shits getting sent to ubers so fast" and they all just said "you're overreacting it's not that good" how right I was
I've always loved non-legendary pokemon being straight banned to ubers, the concept of an overpowered "underdog" is really intriguing.
Thanks for the vid, wonder if anyone has compiled more uber pokemon like this in previous gens.
off the top of my head
garchomp gen 4
wobbufett wynatt gen 4
blaziken gen 5
aegislash gen 6
greninja gen 6
lucario, mawile, salamance, kangaskhan, and sableye gen 6(all mega)
mega metagross gen 7
cinderace, darmanitan, dracovish, for gen 8
probably forgetting a few but this us MOST of them
@@azu1394 excadrill in gen 5 as well
Dracovish is kinda inspiring to me. It had such mediocre stats and ended up being overpowered because of only one move. Who knows, maybe we all just need one little piece to fall into place to change ourselfs or something like that
Well, a move, a synergistic ability, STAB, and not-terrible offense. Any two of these together tends to result in at least viable pokemon. The more you get at once, the better it gets. Kyogre gets the whole shebang with Water Spout, rain-summoning, and being a Legendary Water type. Granted, it'd still be in Ubers even without Water Spout most likely (Surf and Hydro Pump still hit like trucks with rain, STAB, and 150 SpA backing them up), but with it it's definitely never gonna be allowed outside of that tier until at least 5 more generations of power creep, and possibly not even then.
Exploud used to be an un-mon until it got Boomburst which propelled its success and bans in lower tiers. It even had OU success for a little bit early gen 6 before it went to lower tiers.
Moves are just as important as the pokemon behind them. Give a pokemon the wrong move and that could be enough to break
@@tripleaaabattery8480 right move*
@@user-fe8gx3ie5v depends on who you ask I guess. Still means the same thing in the end.
@@tripleaaabattery8480 "Right move" makes more sense, in this context.
Just wanna say, I'm subbed partly because you keep your videos as long as they need to be. I click a 10 minute Freezai video, I know it actually has 10 minutes of content because it needs it, instead of every video being padded. When it only needs to be 3 minutes, it's 3 minutes. When it's 93 seconds, you get my click anyway.
You're the LockpickingLawyer of competitive pokemon vids and I love you for it.
I remember smogon doubting about this mon at first due to poor translation. The name of the move is GILL BITE and most countries respected that: Español with "Branqui-bocado (Gill chomp; a bit of flavour witout losing meaning)", Italiano had "Branchio-morso (Gill's bite)", and -Aleman- german has Kiemenbiss (Gill bite) and French is branchicrok (Gill's... idk, i'm not french). And in english FISHIOUS REND, forgetting both the bite and the gill... english on its finest.
Hi french here, Crok is a play on words for Croque or the verb to bite, so it still lands in whole Gill Bite category!
Croque means bite in French so yeah, Branchicrok is pretty much Gill Bite
Randomly forgetting the english word for german.
A rend is a type of bite or action to bite I believe, and fishious is just weird
The English translation seems to be a pun on Spacious Rend, Palkia’s signature move for some reason.
I remember when this was still legal in the tier and when I built teams, I always was like "Okay, what team slot am I making my specific scarf Freeze Dry Pokemon with at least 80 base speed"
"You already know the answer, but thank you for clicking anyway". I mean... that's how I found this channel a while ago lol.
You're right about people needing counters... but Jellicent has been a top favorite of mine in forever in most of my teams so to me... Vish and Urshifu-Water were never a problem...
- Scald
- Hex
- Strength Sap
- Toxic
- Leftovers
*Does the Squidward thing from that future episode*
Urshifuuuu...
Urshifuuuuu...
Urshifuuuuuuuuuuuu...
See I had a jellicent on a couple teams when this was out. Then it died to strong jaw crunch and realized it wasn't actually an answer.
love your vids bro! thanks for keeping us informed
it's weird because sometimes gf seems really worried abt power creep. like how in s/m, besides ribombee, day lycanroc and a couple UBs, like every fully evolved mon had 60-70 speed, but then they go and do shit like this. i think that's what it is. they got one crackhead on a flexi contract, he comes in, fucks shit up and then dips. the absolute madlad
I do wonder what tier he would be in if fisheous rend was banned instead
He is basically a one trick pony, albeit an ubers bl worthy trick
he's not bad with Sand Rush either, even tho it prevents an otherwise possible rain boost
I'd give it about PU tbh
Kingdra would be better
Zu
Choice Scarf Dracovish + Kyogre Rain is nasty in Ubers. You're either spamming Fishious Rend or spamming Water Spout/Origin Pulse.
Its really interesting to think about the field day vish would have today with all the defensive lando, heatrans running around
A lot more things in the tier outspeed it now though.
@@Coolguy98765 True but most teams don’t pack water absorb anymore so Vish coming back would basically slaughter everything, Heatran and Landorus, Toxapex again if it’s not Anti-Vish, hell even Melmetal has trouble with Vish and that thing has the highest physical bulk in the game next to Buzzwole.
If Vish comes back then all you’re gonna see on teams is Physically defensive Volcanion with Boots and Will-O-Wisp as it’s the only hard counter to Vish and even then it’s unreliable since Volcanion loses to a lot of OU Pokémon, especially Eleki, Koko, and Landorus.
@@Coolguy98765 yeah amd with lando and heatran. They are forced to switch out which would mean something else is taking a really big hit.
@@browserjunior4707 I'd say the closest thing to a true counter in all reality is lapras since it has water absorb and can get an easy freezr dry ohko, but lapras is far from a good mon, so...
@@tripleaaabattery8480 Lapras isn’t a hard counter since Dracovish has access to Low Kick. While most are choiced they’ll just switch out but Volc can actually status it constantly and has more utility when physically bulky than Lapras. It can still defog, absorb water moves, stop rain teams, and kill Ferrothorn and status defensive Landorus with Steam eruption. Lapras at most can freeze dry Pex and Pelipper.
I still think to this day that the fact that one of the most feared attackers in competitive history is a joke mon about fossils being haphazardly thrown together in ways that make no sense is the funniest thing.
even funnier is that these abominations that were cobbled together with parts from different creatures and are begging for death are stronger than mons that are healthy and are battle capable
I still have no clue what they were thinking casually giving the Galar fossils a 170 BP stab move.
Gamefreak employee #1: Hey guys, apparently people hate our fossil pokemon designs
Gamefreak employee #2: You know, I think it'd be funny if..
Its an 85bp move that gets doubled if they *go 1st*
Besides, its speed isnt too fast and choiced gets countered hard by Storm Drain Gastr
Scarf and Slush/Sand Rush are a thing. Plus it pretty much always does 2x damage to slower, tanky mons.
@@zad_rasera yeah. I really hate GF for giving these abominations that are begging for death moves that made players use them since they're OP, while pokemon with cool designs like Luxray get awful movesets, or awful abilities that nerf them since they'd be OP otherwise (Archeops, Regigigas)
I do wonder if Fishious Rend was some type that had type immunity Dracovish may not have been as broken, Regieleki is in a similar boat with just how powerful it is but due to all ground types being immune to electric it isn't overpowered.
why wonder? there's literally an answer in dracozolt and it's bolt beak. it's not banned so you got your answer
@@SceptileScythe dracozolt has more reasons to be weaker than dracovish than just the ground immunity tho
@@SceptileScythe That is fair but at the same time Arctovish also has the move but it is easily the worst of the fossils.
Unlike eleki tho dracovish gets hella coverage options
Regieleki hasn't a single way to got past his checks while dracovish could wear them down pretty easily, and of course ground types are on absolutely every teams while water immunity were only there because of vish. Not to mention the abysmal bulk of regieleki, while vish has a really good one meaning he doesn't necessarily need a safe switch to go rampage, and he is way harder to revenge kill.
"Crackheads at GameFreak" LOL. i love this channel
Worth mentioning 90/100/80 defenses on Water/Dragon is pretty sturdy. The overlap between things comfortable taking Fishous Rends and things that can deal significant damage back is just Lapras and Arctovish, with Freeze-Dry and Water Absorb, and they aren't stellar in any other circumstance.
I remember seeing banded Dracovish one-shot a Toxapex in the rain and I knew it was over
Might have been a crit actually. Still tho
@@JoelDZ If Pex is specially defensive then it's a range - something like a 45% chance to OHKO.
I remember running a Dracovish in rain and it was able to 2HKO Ferrothorn.
Imagine it with swift swim instead of sand rush, now it can freely run banded adamant and get the rain boost, although it would have to give up the strong jaw boost in exchange
Crazy how I never see vish in VGC anymore but yet it’s completely broken singles
It's much easier to fight in vgc. Prankster tailwind lets you outspeed and you can double into it, especially since it can only attack one mon at a time.
Shows how different singles and doubles truly can be
also rillaboom and regieleki r In the format as well as so many intimidate users
Yeah because you don't have to worry about something smacking you back when you OHKO a mon in Singles like you do in Doubles
Even in battle stadium singles, Dracovish isn't that great. 'That great' being in comparison to OU, because while it's a great mon, it doesn't have a comparable level of dominance
damn this thing has more power than a 1 health reversal
Was just viewing your page seeing if I missed anything. Went back to the homepage and this showed up. Really enjoy the content!
Imagine Ash vs leon and dracovich just sweeps leons whole team making ash the stronhest trainer in the world that woul be hilarious
I miss the dracovish days because they were hilariously broken
Nice video as usual! Maybe you could make a video on why Naganadel got banned back in gen 7? I think it would be interesting for those who don't know
Neat analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
During this time i was having fun using meteor beam Cradily. A great switch in that could potentially pose a threat boosted, but not the best counter if dracovish wasn't scarfed. Unfortunately Celesteela started becoming more common so i couldn't even use it after dracovish was banned.
???
Dracovish was banned 4 entire months before Cradily was added to the game
@@Dankfort natdex is a tier that exists
@@paperquagsire3431 OP shouldn't have said "during this time" then. During the time of the fish ban cradily and meteor beam weren't in the game.
Oh wow TIL vish was banned in natdex even though more potential checks to it exist in the format.
ya i meant natdex, i thought the gen 8 ou was a bit boring when it first started out
Even the anime acknowledged how OP Dracovish was.
Ash’s like, *level 20 Dracovish EASILY* killed Iris’ like level 60, killer Dragonite.
This man should’ve stayed extinct.
Before watching: Dracovish is super broken lmao/hj but also yeah this guy was one of the most meta-centralizing pokemon in gen 8 with basically 1 move. It did 1 thing but that 1 thing made it 1 of the most destructive pokemon out there.
Fishious Rend’s already respectable 85BP (Basically the highest physical water move u can get outside of crabhammer) had the additional effect where it’s power is doubled if it attacks first. Along with that, strong jaw gives fishious rend a 1.5x boost effectively making the move 255 BP if dracovish can go first. And that’s not accounting for STAB or if u want to use it in rain, which would boost it significantly further.
Dracovish sits at decent speed tier where with choice scarf, u outspeed all the way up to base 120 max speed (as long as they’re not scarf themselves). That basically guarantees fishious rend’s double power aside from threats that don’t want to switch into a fishious rend anyway. Even if 90 base atk isn’t that great for today’s power creep (not terrible but nothing significant), 255bp STAB more than makes up for that.
Water/Dragon defensively is really good as it only is weak to fairy and dragon. However, where Dracovish really shines is offensively. Water type is great offensively as there’s only 3 resists and no natural immunities, making dracovish’s 255 STAB an easy spammable move as water resists like toxapex are still threatened with the chance of a 2HKO and at best can only stay in for 2 turns even on the lowest rolls.
However, it’s not that water has no immunities at all tho. With the abilities water absorb, storm drain, or dry skin, pokemon are able to freely switch in on an incoming fishious rend easily. This is where Dracovish becomes over-centralizing. Because Dracovish is such a dominant threat, players are forced to run one of the limited water immunity to counter specifically dracovish.
If u ran dracovish urself, u could give up the extra power in strong jaw to effectively make Dracovish the ultimate counter to itself. Seismitoad was a really common pick for its utility such as stealth rock toxic and knock off, especially pre-dlc.
Even then if u lose ur water immunity too early dracovish could come in later in the game and still sweep through teams or break through even walls that resist it.
All based around 1 move really. It had other moves ofc, because the only reason to ever run less than 4 moves is for something like last resort. But all it ever really needed was fishious rend. Outrage was another good stab but it also forced u to stay in and can be switched into easily with a fairy type. So unless absolutely necessary it wouldn’t really be used over fishious rend. All other moves are situationally useful, but overall aren’t what ur using dracovish for if ur using it.
tldr: Ultimately, Fishious Rend Dracovish breaks easily by clicking 1 move. And really 1 type of counter play against dracovish is to use dracovish itself. Water immunities became a must have on each team because dracovish did too much damage to everything.
EDIT: Yeah…
I always look forward to your thoughts on this comment as well king 👑💪
literally the only reason dracovish even has 4 moveslots is to use other moves that deal with the extremely niche interactions where a Pokemon both resists water and is weak to another type dracovish has access to, and *even then* it's really only necessary when one of those is a quad, or if the target has a Water Absorb equivalent
@@misirtere9836 Exactly because if u hit first, that’s already 382 BP without taking types and immunities into account.
For its other stab, outrage, to be useful, it’s 180BP after stab which is still weaker than a x2 resist or a slow fishious rend. So it’s already in a very niche scenario where fishious rend’s power is cut by 4 at least. And then u have to take into account whether the opponent has a fairy type they can safely switch into, or even a steel type and overall there are still scenarios where ur not clicking outrage.
For something like psychic fangs to be useful in comparison, fishious rend is already x3 as strong as psychic fangs right out front because of STAB and fishious rend’s x2 power. So again u need more than a x2 resist or a x2 super effective to even make these moves worthwhile.
@@ryansanagustin6553 yep. You pretty much forget it has these moves until you use something like Jellicent and you get hit by banded crunch on the switch in. Then you're screwed the rest of the match.
@@tripleaaabattery8480 This sounds like a very personal experience. I’m here for u. The monster’s gone now
Would you ever consider doing a spotlight on a pokémon that moved from maybe like a low tier like clefable moving to the top?
I think that's an interesting idea seeing how Articuno got banned to Uber based on a technicality
Fishious rend should be given as an egg move to more pokemon, while receiving a nerf, make it so it deals 1.7 damage and if the user moves LAST (or keep the 2.0 damage or make it just 1.5 damage if move first), and it should only be given to fish pokemon (obviously)
I appreciate the upfront honesty in revealing the answer to the clickbait. Refreshing.
I love how he causally shows a clip of a Kyurem just getting fucking one shotted from an ineffective move. Dracovish do be like that
Could you go over the mons banned with the biggest majority? I think it'd be interesting to see how that evolves over time.
I think the winner of all time has to go to Shaymin-Sky, who got a 100% Ban vote. Serene Grace Air Slash combined with any form of Paralysis support is extremely obnoxious curtains, not to mention the Seed Flare backup with an 80% chance to halve the opponent's Sp.Def. And this was back when Paralysis quartered your Speed, making outspeeding its base 127 literally impossible. Oh, and all that is on HALF its moveset. It can run 2 other moves. Like Substitute! You know, just in case you actually get an attack off.
@@misirtere9836 Which wasn't unreasonable considering it was the time Swift swim was unrestricted. I can imagine a swift swim kingra trying to check that monstruosity only to get sub on and destroyed by Seed flare.
@@N12015 Swift Swim could be as unrestricted as it liked. Drizzle was banned because it was still exclusive to Kyogre. To get the rain in play would require spending a turn on using Rain Dance.
The simplest answer in Pokémon history.
"Strong Jaw Fishious Rend"
Fun fact in rr they made fishous rend not
boosted by strong jaw and it still got banned
Me, clicking on the video: fishious rend, right?
You, immediately: you already know it’s fishious rend
Me: 😮
You should make a video on why Shaymin Sky was banned with a 100% majority in gen 5.
I was completing a living dex recently and while soft resetting for a jolly nature, I found a shiny dracovish, this Pokemon is now a favorite of mine.
And it's design really grows on you!
Amazing Pokemon.
I have no idea how a move like Fishious Rend made it past testing. It’s a power level stronger than Draco Meteor by an order of magnitude with no drawback.
I used to see someone have a full team of Dracovish in Pokemon Showdown, then I found myself a strategy to overcome this. I make my Dubwool use cotton guard, then thunder wave, and then baton pass to switch within another pokemon in my team. I switched in a Calyrex (spectrier) and made it use nasty plot and then... BOOM, I used astral barrage & then my opponent decided to forfeit.
(Fun Fact: I nicknamed my (male) Dubwool as Shaun The Sheep because this was my favorite cartoon since when I was a 7 year old.) (Keep in mind that my current age this year is 14 years old.)
Thank you, Mr. Fish.
No problem bro just keep putting out the good content and Ill keep clicking.
"Thank you Mr. Fish."
The 15 who didn’t want it banned want to watch the world burn
As someone who skipped Gen 8 and thus didn't really keep up with its competitive scene either, I didn't know this, so thank you~
As someone who doesn't play competitive Pokémon but enjoys videos discussing the meta, I appreciate this explanation.
I actually didn't know because Im a very casual player, I don't follow every aspect of the game way less pley the og games, I play showdown for one month and then leave for a year sometimes, I just go to showdown, read a mons analysis in a tier and base my choices from there.
"The crackheads at GameFreak" that already made me laugh
Vish actually just 4x resists itself and returns the ko on outrage.
Doesn't surprise me after seeing how much the tapus wreaked havoc.
I've seen Banded Dracovish with web and rain support. Nasty
That is a satan locked by arceus in a mortal bodies
Love the opening sentence.
Also uh... yeah... when you got something that, even without factoring STAB, is just slightly stronger than Explosion, with 0 risk... It's fucked.
“It’s cause of that thing alpharad showed off that one time right?” Yep
I refuse to believe the storm that is Dracovish and Garmanitan were already 2 years ago.
We're old...
Rain liked the Scarf set, but let the record show that memesters willing to run the Banded set in rain could 2-hit KO full physdef Pex and Ferro, bunker/protect be damned
Of course I'm still gonna click on these videos. They're amazing.
Fishious rend is literally the water type equivalent of spacial rend, the signature move of Palkia.
Game freak definitely had fun making this one
as alpharad would say, thank you mr fish.
Goodbye Mr. Fish :(
Dracovish is a hilarious pokemon idk what they were thinking making that thing.
Dracovish was 1 of dracovish's best checks
Thank you Mister Fish
I didnt know any of this! Very cool
Thank you Mr Fish
I did not know this. Thank you
I know the answer is because it was a dead meta before we got a proper simulator, but a video idea is why snorlax isn't banned in GSC (despite being ranked higher than the ubers)
Keep in mind Explosion is 400BP, doesn't work on Ghosts, and knocks you out after you use it.
Explosion is 250
@@leavemealone8534 I stand corrected. Doesn't make vish any less broken lol
It used to be 500, but that was before Gen 5 when it also halved the enemy's defense before calculation.
@@The_Mister_E it didnt *also* half defense, it was 250 bp and halved
fishious rend should have the limiting ability of halving the attack IF IT ATTACKED FIRST to balance the move
So long and thank for all the fish. So sorry it have to come to it. -Dracovish
Hmmm Prankster Pokemon with Memento, maybe level 1 cottonee holding focus sash to also hit an Endeavor beforehand too.
Switch in to Incineroar with Intimidate to lower the attack another stage, have Incineroar hold a Weakness Policy, if they don’t switch out, use Flame Body to increase speed to 1.5x, then Dmax and use either Max Darkness if you think you can then kill, or use Max Flare to bring the sun out and lower Fishous rend’s damage to a laughably small amount of damage.
If they did switch out Dracovish instead of attack, maybe Bulk Up after your free Flame Body speed boost, to set up a Power Trip or worst case, Drain punch/second flame body.
If anyone wants a good original counter against dracovish, eiscue is a great choice, if you don't like legendary spamming either. With a special set and freeze dry, Max speed naive build eiscue in Its noice form can outspeed choice scarfed dracovish with max spe as long as it isn't jolly. With freeze dry Max sp. Atk, eiscue can always one KO dracovish, and with its ability ice face, it also presents a good change of block a possible fishious rend against other pokemon
What if Vish just switches out of Freeze Dry? You don't have your ice face then to come in against it a second time.
@@nicolaistuhlmuller8718 people usually expect a belly drum set, so they won't switch out, and even if they switch, you can either hail, or max hailstorm to get the ice face back, and wait for other opportunity
@@magickarp_lol_3374 max hailstorm is only an option in dmax metagames where Vish isn't that strong anyways, and wasting the most broken tool in the entire game to restore an ice face isn't that good either. You could predict it to switch out and use Hail, but then all you did was give a free switch to your opponent.
@@nicolaistuhlmuller8718 calm down like nothing is perfect and I can assure u that most of the time, they won't switch out dracovish, also eiscue isn't going to fit in every team so if u need dynamax so max then that your thing
@@magickarp_lol_3374 as I said if you play in a metagame where Dynamax is allowed, Vish isn't that strong anyways and definitely doesn't need a counter. And yeah, Seismitoad definitely does the best job at countering it, and it's not legendary either.
I still can’t believe Fishious Rend is counted as a biting move
Its in the Japanese name. Gill bite. Never just go off of the localizations
6 months later and i continue to hope it stays in ubers when its released in gen 9
I remember the first time wolfy made a set with this fish.