Overcooked 2 Undercooked, Dicey Dungeons & Monotony, & Sea of Solitude | Design Frame #3
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2019
- Design Frame #3:
- Overcooked is fantastic. Overcooked 2 is half-fantastic and half-boring. Find out why!
- Does Dicey Dungeons mix up the Equipment and mechanics enough to persist at the level of Slay the Spire?
- Sea of Solitude lacks both the gameplay and any potential meaning behind its story and lessons.
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you’ve created the most perfect channel niche imaginable, i’ve been dying to hear someone talk about dicey dungeons, and it’s awesome te revisit overcooked :))
Unfortunately I wasn't a big fan of Dicey Dungeons 😅 But I'm glad you enjoyed the video regardless! Design Frame was a series that worked so well as a concept but I just have no way to reliably get the video out there or create an engaging or focused thumbnail since it's on three games instead of one. That's why the most popular of the series is the one that focuses on one topic (Transparency). However, I'm hoping to create smaller videos like these for other indie games, perhaps one per video instead of three though, kind of like my Control video. But seriously, thank you for giving this video a chance and for the kind words! It means a lot!
@@DesignFrameCaseStudies yeah i had a lot of similar frustrations, the lack of actual control over your build always felt bad, and don’t even get me started on the witch. Awesome video!
played sea of solitude recently, the message in the beginning about it 'covering sensitive topics' made me think "oh shit, this is going to be a gutpunch" but it was quite tame and more cute than anything else...artstyle was too pretty even when it was grey.
Hello. The first video I watched of you was a little nightmares. And it was nice. So I watched other videos, and couldn’t stop- until I was called for dinner. Because of this, I’ve decided to subscribe and continuing watching you.
Thank you so much for the kind words! I appreciate you taking the time to write this. I hope I don't disappoint :)
What an interesting take on Dicey Dungeons. Slay the Spire didn't grip me nearly in the same way as Dicey Dungeons did, and maybe it's because of the relative simplicity of Dicey that you were talking about. Apparently the super-late game episodes really mess with the formula, but I get why you wouldn't want to stick with it given how underwhelming the early episodes were for ya
Yeah I was told that the dev said to play at least 5 episodes per class or something but the episodes I've played didn't really change anything. I saw an episode that changed the Equipment; I think that should have been the backbone to the episodes, since there's so few Equipment. What makes Slay the Spire interesting is the amount of choices you have to make per run including enemy management, map pathing, and card drafting, and that's just not really a thing in Dicey Dungeons.
@@DesignFrameCaseStudies Totally understandable if Dicey Dungeons isn't up your alley, but I feel like it's somewhat of a disservice to compare it to Slay the Spire. The joy I found in Dicey Dungeons came less from decision-making and more from optimizing- I really enjoyed the process of creating a build that was resilient against status effects, could manipulate the randomness of the dice, and could still end up pumping out near max damage every turn. With later characters and later episodes, Dicey Dungeons reaches a level of complexity to where the optimal decisions aren't immediately obvious, but they're never so out of reach that you're unable to crunch the numbers and find them. Games like Slay the Spire feature so many decision points that adding or removing cards from your deck can pose incalculable consequences. My builds in that game feel much more freeform because many of the decisions I have to make don't feel like they have a concrete "correct" answer. If Slay the Spire is like being given a color palette and making a painting, Dicey Dungeons is like playing Picross. Both are satisfying, they just aim to create different experiences.
With that said, I do recognize that it takes quite a while for dicey Dungeons to reach even that intermediate level of depth and I can understand how the first half of the game would feel pretty pedestrian to someone who already has experience in deckbuilders or rougelites.
@@Dengarultra I may be wrong about this comparison, but it sounds like to me Dicey Dungeons is more explicit in its challenge that slowly increases in complexity over time, whereas Slay the Spire has a learning curve but the depth is there from the beginning. Slay the Spire feels freeform, especially at first, but it ultimately expects you to account for potential Elites and Bosses with the cards you choose, including the Heart, which really helps in defining decks outside of the combos that Slay the Spire is also good at. So I suppose both games have that potential depth, but go about it in different ways, and Dicey Dungeons was, at least at first, too shallow for me to be interested in continuing to play. I also remember Dicey Dungeons being pretty RNG-reliant.
I think pacing is important so it says something to me when a dev encourages to play a certain # per character (I don't think the game says this though, so the recommendation is lost on people anyway). However, I do want to give it another go 'cause I'm curious about the later challenges. I apparently have 15 hours in the game but have only played 1st episodes with a bunch of different characters. I'm curious about the optimizing gameplay that may be more present in the later episodes that you mentioned.
@@DesignFrameCaseStudies definitely agree that you discover the depth of Slay the Spire whereas you're granted access to the depth of Dicey Dungeons- I never thought of it that way. I liked what I played of StS but didn't play past ascension 1 on any of the characters. Now I want to go play it again and dedicate more time to learning it 😁
If you do go back to Dicey Dungeons I'm curious to see what you think of Episode 3 for the witch- it sort of removes RNG by making you roll dice in a fixed pattern, definitely changes the way you approach the game
@@Dengarultra Haha I'm glad this was a productive conversation then! I also have a deeper appreciation for Slay the Spire because of Jorbs' videos. He has some that go into detail on each and every card (Spire Mini Chats and Spire Chats), as well as some where he talks about some of his runs (Overexplained Runs).
Ah, that sounds interesting. I'll definitely check that out!
I liked dicey dungeon because its an exercise in max efficiency, it was fun for me to make the absolute most of any dice and by the end have an engine capable of generating 1 million dice and crushing the boss. The game quite is slow on adding modifiers, new loot, remixed mechanics but I enjoyed the variety when I got to it. I actually really liked the Halloween dlc witch, it was a straight puzzle. I think there was more depth to tease out than you gave it credit for and while its still pretty shallow, its well made and entertaining (imo) to pick up every now and again.
Lesson of the day: players need more than one step to understand your game's concept.
I'm sorry, what do you mean by step?
The "easy to learn, diffcult to master" approach, opposed to "after 5 minutes you already know how the rest of the game is going to be". Sure there are some gimmicks, but I think these 3 examples have this lack of gameplay variety in common.
Oh for sure! The only exception is Overcooked 1 (and some of Overcooked 2). That game is a legitimately challenging team game and I love it.