I hope you don't mind someone disputing your theory. 1:15: You seem to forget that the Night Elves have worshipped the Light - personified as Elune - for thousands of years even before the War of the Ancients. It's quite likely that the nocturnal trolls that discovered the Well of Eternity were already worshippers of the Moon Goddess, even before the powers of the Well evolved them into elves. Keep in mind that Velen himself believes Elune to be one of the Naaru, while Blizz sources claim that she might be even older and more primal than these beings. In fact, she may be the creator of the Naaru, in a parallel to the judeochristian God and His angels. Also, while the Sunwalkers were introduced in Cataclysm, we can easily assume that the cult of An'she, the Tauren Sun Goddess, is also ancient. The Tauren also recognize Elune (called Mu'sha) as a deity, although she and An'she seem to play second fiddle to the Earth Mother. Humankind, on the other hand, emerged post-Sundering. Their understanding of the Light may be more enlightened (pardon the pun), since they see it less as a "god" and more as a primordial force of the universe - but they were hardly the first ones on Azeroth to harness its power. 2:58: Actually, even before the Sunwell was reignited, the Blood Knights were forced to undergo a major change of their dogma. When Kael'thas raided Silvermoon and abducted M'uru, the Blood Knight hierarchy realized how misguided they were. Desperately surviving on the remnant's of M'uru's energy left in their headquarters, they made contact with A'dal and pledged themselves to the Sha'tari cause, which in turn led to the reignition of the Sunwell. This was not a purely utilitarian decision, however - after facing such betrayal, Lady Liadrin truly regained her faith in the Light, and proactively sought redemption for her order. Ever since, they have - at least officially - returned to their traditional ways. In fact, their direct involvement with the Naaru may have brought them closer to the Draenei understanding of the Light than their old, human-inspired "worship". 3:12: Calling the Sunwalkers "druids of the Sun" is a common, but irritating misunderstanding. It's about as accurate as calling Moon Priestesses "druids of the Moon" (which they obviously are not). The Sunwalkers are closer to shamanism than druidism, but, as I said above, their object of worship is not a mere elemental lord, but a sun deity. This would put them somewhere between shamans and priests, with a decidedly militant approach - basically, they are paladins in service of a more primal, less abstract religion. To dismiss them as "druids of the Sun" as insulting as dismissing our own world's non-dominant religions for not being "mainstream". 3:38: In the vein of your dismissal of the Sunwalkers, but with full understanding of what I'm doing: isn't it the same way that some shamans can lose their elemental powers? (I'm looking at you, Thrall. *Twice already.*) 3:59: Actually, the Broken and the Lost *were* forcefully severed from the Light by Fel magic and exposure to the Twisting Nether's energies after the sundering of Dreanor. Their affliction is not just psychological - it's holistic. Even in the alternate timeline of WoD we can find an example of such a Draenei (although he seems to have been corrupted mostly spiritually, without the physical shrivelling of the Broken and the Lost, but in the end he still wasted away as if mortally ill) - a Vindicator whose connection to the Light was severed by an Arrakoa sun priestess. You can encounter and free his hostile spirit in Talador, allowing him to transcend his taint and reconnect with the Light through final death. 8:59: It was recently confirmed that demons are not that vulnerable to the Light. In fact, there are demons that actually wield it in a subversive, blasphemous way. The Light's opposite is the Void, not the Fel. This is probably the reason why paladin abilities are no longer designed in-game to be as effective against demons as they are against the undead (at least since WoD, if not earlier). *[!!!SPOILERS!!!]* In fact, the first and most fel-infused demon hunter, Illidan, was marked by the Light as its champion, and while he expected it to be painful, it did not actually hurt him *[/SPOILERS]* - so we can assume that the Light isn't specifically destructive to demons, at least not any more than it would be to regular mortals. (Any previous "extra damage" can be chalked up to either Early Installment Weirdness or Gameplay And Story Segregation... pardon my tropish). 10:50: Actually, it was confirmed that despite being animated by dark magic, the Forsaken are not more vulnerable to the Light's power than most mortals. In fact, the healing powers of the Light cause them more pain than the damaging applications thereof, because they revive their dead flesh, causing them to actually register the pain of rotting, smell and taste their decay etc. All in all, while you try to be thorough in your analysis, I think you make too many assumptions, and your analysis is human-centric to the extreme. Awesome piece of work, but you could do better.
Wake of Ashes still stuns both Demons and Undead so they are still vulnerable to the light. Which is crazy because no void aligned creature has any weaknesses against the Light even though they should. Back in Classic the Forsaken would actually take extra damage from Paladins which is one of the reasons why it had to be nerfed, Forsaken players were complaining about how strong they were so it forced a nerf and through that a retcon so that characters like Calia could exist.
they were always described in the novels as being of equal to each other. I don't believe there is any instance where one overpowers the other. That being said, the new generation of death knights are far more powerful than the ones Gul'Dan created
The paladins were created to combat the ORIGINAL death knights, and definitely did kick their asses. Mostly because the original death knights were simply warlocks put into the bodies of dead alliance warriors. However, the later death knights, such as Arthas and the playable death knights were designed to be on equal footing, if not superior to paladins. As that was what the Lich King intended to combat. Paladins and the Light.
Tirion: "Champion... You must.. take the Ashbr-" *Random Paladin used Lay on Hands* *It was super effective* Tirion: "Nevermind, let's go kick that warlock orc's ass. (Kinda forgot I even had that spell...)"
*Stabs tirion* You aint killing shit. I've already had enough of you stealing my kill ONCE, but for 3 more expacs after? FUCK THAT! Now go back to that toilet hole you call a house, hermit, i'm the highlord now. And I am gonna show you, along with the rest of the universe, what the strongest...class...is?!
*Suddenly, all three are cleaved by Saurfang* Saurfang: "Ain't nobody stealing kills in MY game." Crowley: "YOUR game?" *You feel an insane amount of cleaving intent*
Paladin in average is below Warlock, Mage and DH and DK. But the strongest ones can definitely reach insane level of power just like Druid, Shaman and Priest. But to be fair, there isn't any bad DK because it's an elite, paladin aren't. The elite of Paladin are as strong as DK, they maybe even have the match-up advantage due to the light.
Doron, you are comparing a godly creature (which took both the horde and the alliance fighting together with the nameless heroes to defeat) with your average Warlock. Just because that creature could break Tirions shield, doesn't mean a random Warlock could destroy a random Paladin's shield.
I always found that a Paladin's strength was based on their faith in the Light. The greater their faith, the more powerful they were. I acknowledge that Warlocks and Mages can unleash more destructive power than Paladins, but I felt that it's cause a Paladin is more honed and trained in their power. They aren't out to destroy everything through shear power, but tap into what they needed to overcome their seemingly impossible foe.
Peoples are now geting upset about how everyone is special with artifacts but I was always upset about every one can be paladin or mage while they are fewer than warriors and hunters in lore.
I think paladins are one of the strongest classes since they are "heroic class" in lore, f.e. warriors and hunters are generic cannonfodder (like city guards), mages, druids, shamans, monks and priests are also common and most of them are rather weak. However, classes like demon hunters, paladins, death knights and warlocks are rare and elite, carefully chosen to be inducted in this organizations (in case of warlocks, these are powerful mages who want even more) , so average paladin is much stronger than average warrior (in lore).
Not really, maybe the initial order of the Silver Hand but that doesn't apply to all paladins. In the recent times with the Argent Dawn, Argent Crusade and the reformed Silver Hand many can go through training to become a paladin. I wouldn't call other classes cannon fodder as almost all of them require intense practice. It's not like anyone can become a mage, priest, druid or a shaman. There are varying levels of power with any class, a mage that just began his training would be weak but at his full potential he would be very powerful. Just looking at the warriors, even though regular soldiers are technically warriors there are special orders such as the Blademasters that are much stronger than an average warrior.
Those generic city guards right now are the mini sargeras of the Titan Keeper Odyn lorewise. Yeh, they're 3 at max, but atleast it finally we're not just random ass guy who is good at using weps. IMO Cataclysm war really felt like a war. It just shown how much destruction a Weaponmaster can do (Shattering Throw).
Tirion also had a territorial disadvantage when his shield broke (noted by Guldan) and when fighting Arthas at ICC (noted by Arthas). Tirion also had the advantage at Light's Hope (as noted by Tirion himself) - so it seems the ground you fight on had a role to play. And I thought Arthas brought greater numbers to the fight against Uther.
Remember when Death Knight and Paladin fights used to take forever to end? I'd say they were pretty equal originally. It's one thing to see two people of the same class duke it out for a long time, but I think these two classes are the only case I can remember of two different classes being almost equally matched in a fight. Might be seeing a change to that though with the new Outlaw Rogues going up against Demon Hunters.
One of your arguments makes 0 sense. How can u honestly say that paladins have no shields that stand up to the destructive power of a warlock or mage? They are the only class with a shield that grants complete immunity from all sources of damage. Using Tirion as an example to dispute this is not even legit since it is not just a random warlock or a mage who breaks his bubble, but rather a strong demon summoned by Gul'dan (who is not your average warlock). You are right in the sense that paladins do not posess major destructive force, but you kind of skip over the fact that they offer utility that is unmatched by any other class, except maybe druids, with abilities for just about any situation. From a lore perspective paladins are just as much a prestige class as death knights and demon hunters, so how can you say that a demon hunter would win the matchup for sure?Arthas preferred to convert paladins specifically because they are elite compared to your average fighter. That and he probably found it ironic and amusing.
Mages, priests and demon hunters also have immunity shield paladins arent the only ones. His ideas are based lorewise not how you play that class in-game. Tyrion was using divine shield and the demon was so powerfull that he broke through it. Warlocks are the only ones who has that powerfull destructive force. But again, based on lore not how you play in-game otherwise it would be broken
When did I ever say the other classes had no shields? What I said was: He cannot simply ignore the fact that paladins do have a shield that blocks magic, based on Tyrion's bubble bursting vs. a very powerful demon. If an average lock/mage vs. an average paladin, the shield is likely to hold, both lore and gameplay suggests this. That does not mean the paladin wins by default, in fact i'd say it wouldn't change the outcome in most cases, but it sure as hell is different from dismissing the shield as being of no consequence. Basically, saying that any warlock and any mage could fry a paladin's shield is wrong that is what i'm getting at, that was my point. Regarding the demon hunter vs paladin I consider them evenly matched.
Of course that is an extreme, but the power of Tirion is also an extreme. An average paladin would be way below him, especially since he had the Ashbringer. With the sword he was the strongest paladin around with a great protection of the Light. I'm comparing extremes with extremes. On an average level of course a paladin could block but if a powerful paladin was faced with a powerful warlock the magics could overwhelm him. Why am I saying that a demon hunter would win in a match up? The Illidan novel. Demon hunter have an essence of a demon inside them and their reflexes, speed and abilities are super human. There is no melee class that would be able to outmatch a demon hunter in hand to hand combat, without some legendary weapon or magical powers.
If recall in fight did technically die arthas about raise us into undeath ( if do fight in wrath after wrath mechic kinda breaks) tirion broke frost Mourne and brought us back to life so I say fact did that in let him have kill just sheer fact he broke frostmurne and res us resurrection like Rare thing in lore. If not out right almost unheard of even most powerful characters struggle bring someone back from death
I don't think Paladins are "warrior-ish" as for the melee combat sector. A warrior is a man devoted to a life of war and carnage, and it comes in mind a germanic barbarian, rushing at enemies while enraged, mad and blowing their many weapons. Paladins, by the other hand, are, in the melee aspect of the fight, knights, cavaliers, these historical european soldiers who carried more the status of "elites", they trained really well also on martial combat, but I'd say that paladins aim towards a more specific weaponry combat and discipline, as well as warriors are multi-weaponry users. Paladins remind me of roman pretorians, king's guardsman and the aforementioned knights. In WoW's perspective, we can say also that a paladin would abandon much of the ways of a warrior's melee moves to favor his energy in using the stronger and more effective holy light to damage enemies. As for a warrior, good armor and defencive combat will mitigate damage, you can't do much thing against one holding the power which created the universe.
The only other class that I say could stand up to a paladin are Shamans. They are similarly empowered and martial in nature. Keep in mind, a paladin is an elite warrior WITH divine powers. With lore in mind: Warriors are basically just a guy with a melee weapon. Priests have divine powers but are not primarily geared for combat or paladins would not have been needed in the first place. Warlocks, Deathknights and Demon Hunters all rely on demonic, shadow or undeath to empower them. To the paladin, this makes them prey, for paladins are empowered specifically to fight such foes. Rogues are just a guy with a knife. Monks are just a martial artist. Mages have powerful arcane abilities but the paladin at one point or another has abilities to hose such things such as Fire and Ice resistance auras. Yes they were fairly weak but that was for balance purposes. Realistically speaking, they would be far more powerful. Hunters? Just a guy with a bow and a pet.
Knightstruth I main a ret. paladin and agree ...in PvP the only real problems come from good casters... I can usually handle everything else ....of course the only good warrior is one with pocket healers and even then I give them problems ....
I have to agree with some other commenters on a few points: 1) You seem to be placing the average mage too high on the scale. The average mage afaik isn't insanely destructive and could have their attacks deflected by a paladin and other classes. I think you're right about warlocks, warlocks (like demon hunters) are exceptional in every case. 2) You do too much of the "a good paladin is good and an ok paladin is ok". Yeah, we know they vary. That's obvious. Tell us things we don't necessarily know, like how an average paladin (or whatever class) performs in their intended role and compare with them in an intended role.
I remember thinking, back in the day when WoW was released, that paladins didn't really sit on the level of the other classes, since they were a Hero in WC3 (although they were also upgraded knight units in WC2). If only we'd had the concept of a hero class back then, but alas.
I like how you make mentions of the case by case basis rule. Many try to search for a final and ultimate answer instead of acknowledging mitigating factors and different scenarios.
There is something to keep in mind. Tirion was being tortured for a while before we got there. Secondly, Gul'dan is insanely empowered by the Legion and Kiljaeden.
The order of the silver hand was created long before the first war, it was an order created to protect the secret of the hand of tyr. This is verified by playing the holy paladin artifact quest, needs an update.
i feel like ur just saying "well it really depends on the duel and the power level" for every single comparison, but u also gave some good examples, keep up the good work.
I think in a 1v1 rogues are reaaaally strong, because they are basically assassins. So they know how and where to strike to land a single fatal blow. They also excel at finding a weak spot in a blink of an eye, so for example, a paladin vs a rogue: The paladin would see a poisoned huge ass dagger in his chest before he could cast a bubble. Threats for rogues: DH, because of their cheating sight and their swiftness, giving rogues a hard time Mages, because their magic can also detect invisible things and may blink away if they look behind them swiftly enough DK, because one does not simply stab something that was already dead before
I have to say I really hate what blizzard has done to Blood Knights. They went from Badass Battle-mages who drain power from the Sunwell to boring ass Silver hand paladins.
back in 2004-2005, i had 2 guildmates (lvl 60 paladin and lvl 60 warrior), both were decked with complete set of Tier 0, the best pre-Ragnaros items one can wear (Lightforge and Valor). Then they had duels and all the time the Paladin won. The paladin had shield and heal spells while the warrior didn't have means to replenish health. Each round took quite a while though, as Paladin at this stage had only a few high damage offensive capabilities, and this made people say it's the most boring class to play
I actually plan on creating a world of warcraft fanfiction that focuses on human paladin that was initially a strong believer in fighting for the alliance until he eventually finds reasons to doubt the alliance and goes rogue and perhaps his powers might atrophy due to his doubts
I heard that in the old RPG books, experienced paladins were described as getting physically larger and more powerful over time, because channeling the light through their physical attacks and defenses, and buffing and healing themselves all the time, caused their bodies to get sort of "supercharged" and develop to greater health and strength. Of course, they were old, and based on WCIII lore and not WoW lore (I suspect that the idea of them getting bigger and buffer was partly to explain why paladins in-game looked so huge and square...), but I'm not sure if it's ever been explicitly refuted, and most paladins DO seem to be particularly athletic. Is there any lore anywhere that's currently canon and that either refutes or supports the idea of the Light enhancing paladins physically, in that cumulative, passive way?
You say there were no recorded duels between paladins and DHs but even if there were you would probably just say ''However this was just one duel/specific scenario'' like you usually do
They significantly lowered his power in Legion though. In the Shaman quests he says that since he killed Garrosh he's lost touch with Doomhammer and the elements. Plus he gets 1v1ed by a regular demon at the Maelstorm .
Something that is noteworthy though, Paladins were trained to counter Warlocks (which in turn, also "old" death knights since they were just souls of warlocks who were put into the bodies of the deceased".
I've always loved Paladins. Started with WC3 Arthas then Tirion. Now both dead T.T. Playing Pala in Legion taking over Tirions legacy/Reign. Keep it up. I love lore videos like this. Paladins forever! For the Light!
Never will but he wasn't iconic for me as Arthas or Tirion was. WC3 was all about Arthas for me then WoW was Tirion in the Wrath of the Lich King. I would still rate Uther high though.
One thing about tirion's shillelaghs is that guldan gets a little power from sargarus as he is basically what is letting the burning legion terrorize Azeroth
Nevermind the lore and what would/could happen. I know my personal experience as a Holy paladin, and I absolutely hate fucking with priests, mages, DKs, and warlocks. There was a time when I had zero fear against any other class, but now with all the "balancing," I'm not sure how 1v1 duels will be. If I get fucking mana burned one more time, I'm going to unleash my Navy Seal sniper skills and on somebody and hack their location. Seriously. No more mana burn. You have to just put up with my limitless mana pool or you're fucking dead, kiddo.
Technically the trolls, particularly the Zandalari, were using the light before the Humans were. Also unlike the Draenei the races of Azeroth seem to have a natural ability to use the light while the Draenei were given this ability from the Naaru.
I’ve been stuck in combat with a warrior for a while because we both can heal ourselves. We just stoped after like 45 minutes of combat and just waved and walked away.
I think it's important mentioning that 'blood elves' can be paladins, just like a human, although its just a lot more uncommon. A lot of the previous blood elves, became high elves and therefore disconnected to the new Sunwell, but they are still paladins through faith only. As well as some blood elves the same!
IMHO An average paladin would kick an average warriors ass. They are both SKILLED in martial combat and a warrior may be more skilled in theory, the paladins light powered are a force multiplier. Yeah it wouldn't be effective offesnively but defensivly it would protect and heal them. Imagine fighting a guy in plate, already Hard to hurt, but everytime you do succeed he heals or simply uses a shield to block it. Furthermore I doubt paladins are far prowess is great, but super
There is a problem... light magic DOES NOT do more damage to undead, or demon beings in Legion. So paladins are on the same efficiency level as any other class in that matter. During vanilla light magic was doing more damage to undead or demoninc beings, I dont remember but I guess same was on BC too... but after Lich King all that have changed and light magic was not affecting the way it supposed to be.
So Doron who do you think would win in a duel between Illidan and Tirion Fordring? Illidan would be at his Black Temple power level empowered by only himself and his main weapons. Tirion would be at his ICC power level. I think Illidan would not be able to kill or even mortally wound Tirion due to his sheer defensive might and tenacity as seen in ICC and the Broken Shore surviving days being submitted to fel torture. I do think Illidan would have no problem getting close and personal though. There is also the case of how the Ashbringer would react to touching fel blood or even the Twin Blades of Azzinoth as they are inferior weapons. The Ashbringer shattered Frostmourne and I believe it would do the same to the Twin Blades of Azzinoth.
Hmm, it would be very hard to say really. I think that Illidan would definitely outmatch Tirion in melee combat but I don't think he would be able to kill him. His protection of the Light is too great and he could definitely be capable of shattering the warglaives of azzinoth.
You really need to read the Illidan novel and Arthas: Rise of the Lich King if you think that comparison makes sense. Just because someone defeated someone doesn't mean he is stronger than an opponent the other one fought. By your logic Maiev defeated Illidan therefore she is stronger than him and even Magtheridon. However in the book Illidan defeats Maiev and her army and she was already defeated previously by Kael'Thas and Lady Vashj in Warcraft III. Another example of the same logic would be saying that the fel monster that defeated Tirion is obviously stronger than the Lich King.
I'm just going to point out a little flaw in all of this. One about Paladins not being as great in arms as general warriors. Theres honestly no reason that they couldn't be and remember that Knights of stormwind were losing to Orcs, until Paladins came along by your logic a knight should be far superior in arms to a paladin but that's just not the case and also I feel that you brushed off the whole empowerment thing as if it was nothing. This empowerment of the light throughout their bodies is a major factor in what makes a Paladin able to stand up to things so much bigger than himself in ability or size.
I feel that what paladins lack in overwhelming power like with warlocks they make up for in overwhelming stubbornness to die or having their will broken.
Interesting comparison. But after seeing all your other videos, what got me intrigued are the priest. They have been mentioned as a counter to most of them, but I can't remember many powerful priests in lore.
Because priests are mostly healers. They are the goalkeepers in football (soccer). When they are on the team no one gives a fuckk about them but if there is none the team is dead.
doron i mostly agree with your video (and i imagine comparing classes lore wise must be a pain in the a**) but you have to remember that paladins were created to fight orcish warlocks during the second war, so i think in a purely lore-wise scenario paladins would have some counters to defend and fight against locks...
I just have to bring this one up. You say around 4 minute mark how broken have had similar thing happen to them (as in they lost their faith/resolve and therefore lost the light) but based on the short story Unbroken that is available at the official site (which I would therefore rate quite high on the lore accuracy) broken actually have quite the opposite happen to them. worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/story/short-story/unbroken To give short version of what happens with light and the broken: Nobundo is wielding light without any trouble. He inhales some weird miasma and this miasma has demonic magic in it at some levels, which (based on description and story) permanently severs his and others like him connection to Light. Based on description draenai have their connection severed forcibly from the Light and this causes them to become broken. So at least in this or these cases, the paladin losing their connection with the light happens first and the loss of this connection causes doubt in them, rather than the other way around as described in the video. As for the DH versus paladin and what happens with Tirion, I would say that the demon/fel magic is close to that of void magic, but at the same time different. Paladins could be thought to be best against void magic (i.e. shadow priest) and undead. Fel magic could be thought to be amalgamation of Fire and void magic and therefore to be slightly more efficient against paladins, though at the same time more easily countered than pure fire magic. Warlock would have most likely more trouble with paladin than a mage, as mage just wields quite powerful arcane powers and could just most likely (provided strong enough mage) overwhelm a paladin, where as warlocks magics either have affinity or are purely based on void magic. Paladins more often have their light magic being defensive, restorative and enhancing which in sense again would suggest that their ability to protect themselves from void magic would be the excelling effect, rather than smiting their foes. These are obviously not in game things that are being talked about but the lore behind what the game is based on.
During the broken shore scenario Tirion wasn't on holy ground. Also he was under constraints placed by an empowered Gul'dan and was fel blasted by what looked to be a pretty powerful demon. Just sayin.
There was a time when paladins were probably the most powerful class in WoW. So powerful that a single blood-elf paladin could last 15 minutes or more of onslaught in Stormwind. Back in the old days of BC, beginning of WoTLK. Peasants and low-levels were enraged, chats were full of rants and whines "Paladins are OP! Blizzard do something!" and it was good :)
tier 2 on a 3 tier system warlocks been tier 1 but only if they let it all go, then tier 2 been mages, druids, paladins, sharman's and DK and lastly tier 3 been warriors, rogues, monks, hunters and priest. now shadow priest and demon hunters i don't know about id likely put them in tier 2.
Hey Dorons, are you going to do only the main classes, or are you going to mention weird sub-classes like spellbreakers and necromancers? Not bitching but it would be interesting to see how you think they pair up to our regular main classes.
I actually think shadow priests could best paladins because shadow priests are not absent of the light, they basically use the light the same way that Jedi's use the dark side. The light is basically "the force"
Not exactly. The "dark side" doesn't exist as a thing or something usable. The only thing that exists is the force and the difference is how it is used. Think of the Force as a scalpel. In the hands of a surgeon it saves hundreds of lives. In the hands of a serial killer it will kill hundreds of lives. Anyway a shado2 paladin is useless. However the Light and the Void are 2 really different things/entities.
Holy fuck the amount of misinformation in these videos is astouding. I haven't even gotten to the part where he attempts to pit paladins against the other classes but wow. EDIT: I finished the video and I'm happy to report that at least he was very fair in judging their relative power levels to other classes. Although, I think Doronsmovies is way to biased towards mages and warlock casters. The likes of Gul'dan and Jiana, the type of mages that could crush every other class are of heroic power levels. The average mage would be utterly destroyed by an average or either weaker paladin as they cannot rely on summoning meteorites or colossal demons but, instead usually have to rely on small projectiles or direct magical attacks, both of which can be blocked by the paladin's defensive magic. The strongest mage would be able to kill the strongest paladin, but that's it.
Interestingly, tauren ''paladin'' NPCs in game themselves talk about the ''Light', back in MoP and WoD, while we know they are ''sun paladins'' technically, we don't really know much about their Earthmother, except they worship its other part in counter to Night elf worship of the moon. By that we could say that its just Elune both races worship even if the tauren themselves don't know it., high possibility since the tauren have had a high affinity for all things Nature long before night elevs even existed and even had relations with Cenarius before aswell.
Tauren existed when elves were still trolls, they were one of the primitive races on Azeroth along with trolls and others. When you read specifically about druidism, the tauren befriended Cenarius when they were still primitive due to their love and care for all things nature, they are the children of wilds, after a while Cenarius left em and later on gained connection with the highborne elves, teaching Malfurion Stormrage druidism who became the first mortal druid. We do not know if Cenarius taught tauren any druidism during their time together, but since Malfurion is considered the first mortal druid, then we have to assume he didn't and they were just friends. But the point is, Cenarius has a great respect for the tauren race because of their affinity to nature since the beginning of their existence.
From the gameplay perspective Demon Hunters (depends on the player) could be really easely defeated by Paladins,but also sometimes they can be really hard. From my experience - I play random BG as Pally and two Demon Hunters jumped on me it was 1v2 duel,but with the help of the healing spells and the power of the light i survived (barely) but i did :D So for the Pally vs DH thing i think it depends on individual (btw i had pretty much same health and ilevel as the DH had)
IMO night elfs were tuned to priesthood long before vrykul evolved/devolved into humans and coming to the Light. We even see that in the Well of Eternity dungeon with Tyrande using the Light. Not trying to be rude or anything. But I do agree that humans seems to be the most attuned to the Light, well expect from the Draenei.
Oguzhan kaygısız Not just a vs. battle but also the main differences and similarities between them. Can a night elf be a holy priest or can a human be a Priestess of Elune?
With priests of equal power, the Elune priestess is going to get rekt during day, because while Elune's power in lore is usable during day, its less so during day. While during night, both are at an equal footing/fighting chance since as far as the lore is concerned, Holy Light's power is not dependent on night or day (atleast if you're not a Tauren sun-priest?). Plus Elune's power is probably limited to Azeroth (makes you wonder how they explain them using it in outland, in wow). Whereas the Holy light is a universally present phenomenon, which existed even before the universe did. You can wield the Holy light just as effectively (can do it even more effectively on holy ground) even if you're in the twisting nether.
According to the new lore Elune created the Naaru which are the Gods of the Light so yeah. Also while both Elune and the Light rely on faith, with Elune she chooses whether or not to aid, so there's that.
Katrina Syndae " According to the new lore Elune created the Naaru" And what lore would that be? I read the chronicle top to bottom. Never saw that. Whereas it was mentioned quite clearly that the light was a universal force that existed way before even the universe existed, leave alone Azeroth and its deities. Rather, it would make more sense if Elune derived her powers from it, as Velen actually speculates in the Wolfheart novel.
If we base it on the concepts/text/lore and not the in game stats, I think that Paladin's would make far better infantry than warriors. Warriors as a class are very powerful and certain lore characters are very special-case powerful warriors, but the actual concept is far too human and is outdone by rogues, when you consider that an accomplished rogue can kill anyone at any time, without them realizing. Rogues would not make good footsoldiers however on a field of battle because... where the hell are you going to find an army? But yeah, with how you call Paladins a really well-rounded class, they would make for a great army. facilitate them with holy priests and fire/arcane mages, and I think you have a nicely themed, well rounded and versatile army. Warriors are just men. Or women. or non-human men and women. Which makes their accomplishments so damn impressive. But there are very few who can number among the truly impressive warriors... that aren't already jacked up powerful races.
Agreed. I feel like paladins can be considered an evolution of the warrior. While not neccessarily stronger across the board, their advantage is that they become just so much more flexible. Literally all of them are turtled up in heavy plate, and in a pinch fulfill any role (You'll never catch a paladin army without healers, even if none of them are specialized in that field). They're extra resilient against disease, which is REALLY important for any army, and their use of the light would make them god-tier shock troopers against undead and demons.
The only downside is the stigma the light carries - you can only wield the light if you believe in your purpose. Because of the way the Azerothian religions work, that means that even though you don't necessarily have to worship the light to wield the light, you would essentially need to be a zealous worshipper of the light to truly believe in your ability to wield it. Anyone not part of the religions would have trouble being able to find confidence in their use of the light, since they would be under the impression that the light is a religious tool (Personally with the abilities of the light, I think that the light is just an energy, and is in essentiality psionic power like in the starcraft series. Its uses are just far too similar to the functions of most protoss units for me to not see it that way.) Thus the reason I think it is not religious but is in fact mind powers that the priests/paladins and shadow priests awaken in themselves through their confidence in their beliefs. So Paladin's are essentially psionic warriors
+Mikazuchi Yes, I have always seen the paladin as the Superman of Warcraft classes. Not the strongest, not the most durable, not the fastest and not the most agile. But they have all their traits in such an extreme level that they can't be outmatched. Lorewise just take a look at the ones that kept the Legion at bay in their own world (Argus) where they are most powerful: Turalyon and the draenei paladins. I don't know if you're still playing but at this point this won't be a spoil (I hope), Turalyon is alive and kicking the Legion's ass. Meanwhile the "powerful" Demon Hunters were struggling to fight lesser demons in the Broken Isles.
It would be more accurate to say sunwalkers are Shaman of the sun, rather than druids of the sun. Balance druids actually use the sun and moon. Druids are important parts of tauren society thanks to night elven influence I believe, but Shaman are spiritual leaders and that extends to sunwalkers as I see it.
Despite you not responding to others who proved my points in the DK video something i gotta say here: DKs were NOT made to counter Paladins. DKs existed quite a bit before Paladins were created and paladins were created specifically to counter DKs (WC2) that Paladins proved to be usefull against the undead of the scourge was also quite logically but thats not what they were made for. And while a DKs powers can surpass that of a Paladin, in most cases the Paladin will win against the DK. Thats what they were made for and their powers greatly hurt Undead (and thus most DKs but MOST! Not all DKs are undead there are also unliving ones which is quite a difference) and their powers counter fel magic (as the first DKs were warlocks) so they also kinda counter Demonhunters. And against your DH fanboyism DHs are not as good in melee as warriors are and are not used to fighting against armor. They are specialised troops against demons - anything not demon has a rather good chance against them. A warrior will usually win against a Pala as he has a lot more combat training and experience in special also fighting armored enemies and he wont be, other than DKs or DHs, in special hurt by the powers of the Paladin.
I guess it unliving would be something that didn't actually die, but is just displaying the traits of an undead character... kinda like Arthas? That's my best guess lol
Baconman161 Undead have all the benefits and disadvantages of undeath while unliving basicly are still alive, they still have bodily functions, needs and capabilities but to a lower degree than alive beings and also share some benefits of undeath like theoretical immortality. Basicly unliving DKs are not in special affected by lightmagic but they also still can run out of stamina. For this scenario an unliving DK would have a much better chance against a Paladin than an undead one.
Matthew Cohn that is very correct and Arthas is a good example. Unliving DKs are basicly still alive and slowly degrade into undeath - they share a few traits of being alive and a few of being undead, kinda having the benefits of both worlds to a lesser degree
Orkar Isber Arthas may have never died and been raised as a Death Knight. But after his fight with Illidan he cut out his own heart so he wouldn't be held back by human emotions and stuff. And you have to think that all that necromantic power would've pushed him into being an Undead. And unliving by definition means dead just so you know. lol
I really liked our video; the only disagreement I have is that Paladins are much better at controlling the Light than Priests. It's said by Blizzard that while Priests can wield the light, Paladins are a beacon of light.
I'd switch that around, Paladins are better at wielding the Light (as in against others), but Priests are the beacon of Light (they more purely channel it, potentially enough to overpower a Paladin if they would somehow clash, but more likely not win). An apex Priest likely has more Light power but Paladins are generally the ones to put it into effect in battle more often, more capably. This isn't so bad for Priests though since they can still be capable *casters* (so they don't need to just clash all the time) and they have better concentration to use the Light to heal themselves/others.
A shadow priest turns a paladin into a warrior with less skill, because the light relys on conviction and a shadow priest attacks the mind, instantly stopping the paladin from being able to use the light at all. this is of course lore wise as game play cant allow this or it would make shadow priest far too op mind controllers.
Well, there is a reason why the Burning Crusade has defeated so many worlds. The fel is a strong power source. But looking at the other videos, it looks like Priest is a good contender since they can use two extremely opposite force. No powerful priest in lore though
Why do you think that is? That there are on powerful priests in lore. You said they use two extremely opposite forces. Priests are like the balance. Maybe there are no power lore priests because they are what keeps the balance between good and evil. For there to be a powerful priest on one side being shadow or light would go against their very existence. This is all just my idea of course. But I think priests are the most powerful out there but they keep the balance so you will never see the strongest ones in lore.
What you mention is the discipline priest, the one that balances light and shadow. Holy and shadow priest go all the way in and currently can't even use spells from the other aspect.
between paladins and Demon Hunters? Sandor sums it up. Paladins would win because they have plate armor and a big arse sword. the effects of plate armor are so underappreciated in these lore scenarios. Paladins were drawn mostly from the knightly class. They werent amateurs to combat, it was the back bone of their identity. Light usage was added to that.
That is true. I do my best to generalize but every duel is on a case to case basis. A class that would be considered weak on average would be able to take down the strongest one dependent on the circumstances.
![Megan Thee Stallion - Roc Steady (feat. Flo Milli) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/HozPPyqW0dY/mqdefault.jpg)
"The light will abandon you hero, just like it did to me" -Arthas. Saddest line
And the truth is that the light didn't abandon arthas. He just stop having faith in it and that is why his power started to fade.
D:
Every shadow priest ever
“No, you chose your own destiny.” - thrall
when did he say this ?
I hope you don't mind someone disputing your theory.
1:15:
You seem to forget that the Night Elves have worshipped the Light - personified as Elune - for thousands of years even before the War of the Ancients. It's quite likely that the nocturnal trolls that discovered the Well of Eternity were already worshippers of the Moon
Goddess, even before the powers of the Well evolved them into elves. Keep in mind that Velen himself believes Elune to be one of the Naaru, while Blizz sources claim that she might be even older and more primal than these beings. In fact, she may be the creator of the Naaru, in a parallel to the judeochristian God and His angels.
Also, while the Sunwalkers were introduced in Cataclysm, we can easily assume that the cult of An'she, the Tauren Sun Goddess, is also ancient. The Tauren also recognize Elune (called Mu'sha) as a deity, although she and An'she seem to play second fiddle to the Earth Mother.
Humankind, on the other hand, emerged post-Sundering. Their understanding of the Light may be more enlightened (pardon the pun), since they see it less as a "god" and more as a primordial force of the universe - but they were hardly the first ones on Azeroth to harness its power.
2:58:
Actually, even before the Sunwell was reignited, the Blood Knights were forced to undergo a major change of their dogma. When Kael'thas raided Silvermoon and abducted M'uru, the Blood Knight hierarchy realized how misguided they were. Desperately surviving on the remnant's of M'uru's energy left in their headquarters, they made contact with A'dal and pledged themselves to the Sha'tari cause, which in turn led to the reignition of the Sunwell. This was not a purely utilitarian decision, however - after facing such betrayal, Lady Liadrin truly regained her faith in the Light, and proactively sought redemption for her order. Ever since, they have - at least officially - returned to their traditional ways. In fact, their direct involvement with the Naaru may have brought them closer to the Draenei understanding of the Light than their old, human-inspired "worship".
3:12:
Calling the Sunwalkers "druids of the Sun" is a common, but irritating misunderstanding. It's about as accurate as calling Moon Priestesses "druids of the Moon" (which they obviously are not). The Sunwalkers are closer to shamanism than druidism, but, as I said above, their object of worship is not a mere elemental lord, but a sun deity. This would put them somewhere between shamans and priests, with a decidedly militant approach - basically, they are paladins in service of a more primal, less abstract religion. To dismiss them as "druids of the Sun" as insulting as dismissing our own world's non-dominant religions for not being "mainstream".
3:38:
In the vein of your dismissal of the Sunwalkers, but with full understanding of what I'm doing: isn't it the same way that some shamans can lose their elemental powers? (I'm looking at you, Thrall. *Twice already.*)
3:59:
Actually, the Broken and the Lost *were* forcefully severed from the Light by Fel magic and exposure to the Twisting Nether's energies after the sundering of Dreanor. Their affliction is not just psychological - it's holistic. Even in the alternate timeline of WoD we can find an example of such a Draenei (although he seems to have been corrupted mostly spiritually, without the physical shrivelling of the Broken and the Lost, but in the end he still wasted away as if mortally ill) - a Vindicator whose connection to the Light was severed by an Arrakoa sun priestess. You can encounter and free his hostile spirit in Talador, allowing him to transcend his taint and reconnect with the Light through final death.
8:59:
It was recently confirmed that demons are not that vulnerable to the Light. In fact, there are demons that actually wield it in a subversive, blasphemous way. The Light's opposite is the Void, not the Fel. This is probably the reason why paladin abilities are no longer designed in-game to be as effective against demons as they are against the undead (at least since WoD, if not earlier). *[!!!SPOILERS!!!]* In fact, the first and most fel-infused demon hunter, Illidan, was marked by the Light as its champion, and while he expected it to be painful, it did not actually hurt him *[/SPOILERS]* - so we can assume that the Light isn't specifically destructive to demons, at least not any more than it would be to regular mortals. (Any previous "extra damage" can be chalked up to either Early Installment Weirdness or Gameplay And Story Segregation... pardon my tropish).
10:50:
Actually, it was confirmed that despite being animated by dark magic, the Forsaken are not more vulnerable to the Light's power than most mortals. In fact, the healing powers of the Light cause them more pain than the damaging applications thereof, because they revive their dead flesh, causing them to actually register the pain of rotting, smell and taste their decay etc.
All in all, while you try to be thorough in your analysis, I think you make too many assumptions, and your analysis is human-centric to the extreme. Awesome piece of work, but you could do better.
Thank you! I prefer your lore way better. The in game stuff is just to not confuse players with the in depth lore.
damn what a comment
Wake of Ashes still stuns both Demons and Undead so they are still vulnerable to the light. Which is crazy because no void aligned creature has any weaknesses against the Light even though they should. Back in Classic the Forsaken would actually take extra damage from Paladins which is one of the reasons why it had to be nerfed, Forsaken players were complaining about how strong they were so it forced a nerf and through that a retcon so that characters like Calia could exist.
Paladins are the super saiyans on Azeroth.
Nicolai why ?? No
Lol super Saiyan lol nah you wrong Nicolai
@@abdualrhmanaljasmi2107 I would make you both sit with my paladin!
The reason Tirion's shield was broken by Krosus was because of the 7.0 patch. He got his bubbles mixed up and used his vengeance shield in accident.
Personally I believe that Paladins are much stronger than they think they are... if they know how to control The Light.
Same goes for all casters.
Paladin will always be my favorite class. I may stop playing them for a time, but I always come back and have the most fun when playing them.
Sam Burris once you go pally you are in it for life ^^
correct me if I'm wrong but the paladins were created to counter the death knights of the horde and they pretty much kicked their ass
they were always described in the novels as being of equal to each other. I don't believe there is any instance where one overpowers the other. That being said, the new generation of death knights are far more powerful than the ones Gul'Dan created
The paladins were created to combat the ORIGINAL death knights, and definitely did kick their asses. Mostly because the original death knights were simply warlocks put into the bodies of dead alliance warriors.
However, the later death knights, such as Arthas and the playable death knights were designed to be on equal footing, if not superior to paladins. As that was what the Lich King intended to combat. Paladins and the Light.
The original "death knights" don't compare to the death knights created by the Lick King.
If you only go by the novels, then sure but in Warcraft 2 A Paladin could one-shot a DK or any undead with exorcism when he was at full mana
I'm pretty sure the first paladins were draenei.
Tirion: "Champion... You must.. take the Ashbr-"
*Random Paladin used Lay on Hands*
*It was super effective*
Tirion: "Nevermind, let's go kick that warlock orc's ass. (Kinda forgot I even had that spell...)"
*Stabs tirion*
You aint killing shit. I've already had enough of you stealing my kill ONCE, but for 3 more expacs after? FUCK THAT!
Now go back to that toilet hole you call a house, hermit, i'm the highlord now. And I am gonna show you, along with the rest of the universe, what the strongest...class...is?!
*Tirion starts crying*
Tirion: "Okay, I'm going to sit in the corner with Thrall and Maiev then..."
*Suddenly, all three are cleaved by Saurfang*
Saurfang: "Ain't nobody stealing kills in MY game."
Crowley: "YOUR game?"
*You feel an insane amount of cleaving intent*
MrAyeSir *Sargeras destroys azeroth then after cause no one decided to LOOK UP*
*Theldurin the Lost saves Azeroth by punching Sargeras in the face!*
Love the video but have to disagree. Paladins are some of the most powerful classes lore wise.
Just behind Warlocks, Druids ,Shadow Priests, Mages , shamans and DH/DK
@@klapacjuszanimomon8501 Shamans??????????????? XDXDXXDDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXD
shadow priest=paladin/ofensive holy priest
Paladin in average is below Warlock, Mage and DH and DK. But the strongest ones can definitely reach insane level of power just like Druid, Shaman and Priest.
But to be fair, there isn't any bad DK because it's an elite, paladin aren't. The elite of Paladin are as strong as DK, they maybe even have the match-up advantage due to the light.
from 3:39 to 3:42 that dwarf must have enjoyed eating his shoulderpiece
LOL
XDDD
he was obviously sucking it off
According to the lore:
arcane < fel < light = void.
So paladins and whoever controls void are the strongest in the Warcraft's universe.
Khennu shadow priests control void
Fel is stronger than Light and Void...
DrumsandOther
But death knights, especially in the second war, were void and fel users. They were no match for Turalyon using the light.
DrumsandOther No is not. Light and Void overpower everything
@@DrumsandOther i thought fel was a corruption of both the light and void?
Doron, you are comparing a godly creature (which took both the horde and the alliance fighting together with the nameless heroes to defeat) with your average Warlock. Just because that creature could break Tirions shield, doesn't mean a random Warlock could destroy a random Paladin's shield.
Sky Chaser but he’s no average paladin. He’s a a beast of a paladin.
Tirion is an upjumped above average paladin witha good sword/ location.
Tirion was famous for actually shattering Frostmourne
I always found that a Paladin's strength was based on their faith in the Light. The greater their faith, the more powerful they were. I acknowledge that Warlocks and Mages can unleash more destructive power than Paladins, but I felt that it's cause a Paladin is more honed and trained in their power. They aren't out to destroy everything through shear power, but tap into what they needed to overcome their seemingly impossible foe.
"few exceptionaly powerfull ones" - the whole playerbase...
lol
But if everyone's exceptional.... no one is!
+Opressor Oprimido what I said about the warswords of the valuable I looked around and said the rest of these ppl are wannabes
Peoples are now geting upset about how everyone is special with artifacts but I was always upset about every one can be paladin or mage while they are fewer than warriors and hunters in lore.
Baran Duman well what would you have them do? only first few people on server can create a mage?
Paladin is the best class for me!
I think paladins are one of the strongest classes since they are "heroic class" in lore, f.e. warriors and hunters are generic cannonfodder (like city guards), mages, druids, shamans, monks and priests are also common and most of them are rather weak. However, classes like demon hunters, paladins, death knights and warlocks are rare and elite, carefully chosen to be inducted in this organizations (in case of warlocks, these are powerful mages who want even more) , so average paladin is much stronger than average warrior (in lore).
the thing is druids and shamans are still not a "normal" class
Not really, maybe the initial order of the Silver Hand but that doesn't apply to all paladins. In the recent times with the Argent Dawn, Argent Crusade and the reformed Silver Hand many can go through training to become a paladin. I wouldn't call other classes cannon fodder as almost all of them require intense practice. It's not like anyone can become a mage, priest, druid or a shaman. There are varying levels of power with any class, a mage that just began his training would be weak but at his full potential he would be very powerful. Just looking at the warriors, even though regular soldiers are technically warriors there are special orders such as the Blademasters that are much stronger than an average warrior.
Those generic city guards right now are the mini sargeras of the Titan Keeper Odyn lorewise. Yeh, they're 3 at max, but atleast it finally we're not just random ass guy who is good at using weps. IMO Cataclysm war really felt like a war. It just shown how much destruction a Weaponmaster can do (Shattering Throw).
P sure generic town guards are considered "fighters" not "warriors". Same way Illidan was a "sorceror" not a "mage". Maybe this was retconned.
Tirion also had a territorial disadvantage when his shield broke (noted by Guldan) and when fighting Arthas at ICC (noted by Arthas). Tirion also had the advantage at Light's Hope (as noted by Tirion himself) - so it seems the ground you fight on had a role to play. And I thought Arthas brought greater numbers to the fight against Uther.
"It takes great practice and training to get to a level where you could actually start control there powers." -> queing LFG
Remember when Death Knight and Paladin fights used to take forever to end? I'd say they were pretty equal originally. It's one thing to see two people of the same class duke it out for a long time, but I think these two classes are the only case I can remember of two different classes being almost equally matched in a fight.
Might be seeing a change to that though with the new Outlaw Rogues going up against Demon Hunters.
Eh... outlaw rogues are nothing like demon hunters lol
MastaGambit I didn't say they were.
Arthas used the whosyourdaddy to kill Uther xD
LOL
It's not as easy, because he becomes invulnerable after the first hit. Had to go that route for the video recording. :D
Lol nice itisagooddaytodie indeed
He didn't, he just lets his Ghouls do all the work.
One of your arguments makes 0 sense. How can u honestly say that paladins have no shields that stand up to the destructive power of a warlock or mage? They are the only class with a shield that grants complete immunity from all sources of damage. Using Tirion as an example to dispute this is not even legit since it is not just a random warlock or a mage who breaks his bubble, but rather a strong demon summoned by Gul'dan (who is not your average warlock). You are right in the sense that paladins do not posess major destructive force, but you kind of skip over the fact that they offer utility that is unmatched by any other class, except maybe druids, with abilities for just about any situation. From a lore perspective paladins are just as much a prestige class as death knights and demon hunters, so how can you say that a demon hunter would win the matchup for sure?Arthas preferred to convert paladins specifically because they are elite compared to your average fighter. That and he probably found it ironic and amusing.
Mages, priests and demon hunters also have immunity shield paladins arent the only ones. His ideas are based lorewise not how you play that class in-game. Tyrion was using divine shield and the demon was so powerfull that he broke through it. Warlocks are the only ones who has that powerfull destructive force. But again, based on lore not how you play in-game otherwise it would be broken
When did I ever say the other classes had no shields? What I said was: He cannot simply ignore the fact that paladins do have a shield that blocks magic, based on Tyrion's bubble bursting vs. a very powerful demon. If an average lock/mage vs. an average paladin, the shield is likely to hold, both lore and gameplay suggests this. That does not mean the paladin wins by default, in fact i'd say it wouldn't change the outcome in most cases, but it sure as hell is different from dismissing the shield as being of no consequence. Basically, saying that any warlock and any mage could fry a paladin's shield is wrong that is what i'm getting at, that was my point. Regarding the demon hunter vs paladin I consider them evenly matched.
Of course that is an extreme, but the power of Tirion is also an extreme. An average paladin would be way below him, especially since he had the Ashbringer. With the sword he was the strongest paladin around with a great protection of the Light. I'm comparing extremes with extremes. On an average level of course a paladin could block but if a powerful paladin was faced with a powerful warlock the magics could overwhelm him.
Why am I saying that a demon hunter would win in a match up? The Illidan novel. Demon hunter have an essence of a demon inside them and their reflexes, speed and abilities are super human. There is no melee class that would be able to outmatch a demon hunter in hand to hand combat, without some legendary weapon or magical powers.
Chaos bolt went through all shields in Wrath of the Lich King. No paladin was safe from my destruction warlock!
Well, doron, let's face it...my paladin is now WAY above tirion.
Also, I am soloing HFC normal....and I am at mannaroth...so....PROGRESS!
Tirion didn't kill arthas, we did it, he just got the statue...
If recall in fight did technically die arthas about raise us into undeath ( if do fight in wrath after wrath mechic kinda breaks) tirion broke frost Mourne and brought us back to life so I say fact did that in let him have kill just sheer fact he broke frostmurne and res us resurrection like Rare thing in lore. If not out right almost unheard of even most powerful characters struggle bring someone back from death
@monkeyjames9285 i get what u mean, but by that logic if king terenas wouldn't have had mass.resurrected the raid, tirion would died as well
I don't think Paladins are "warrior-ish" as for the melee combat sector. A warrior is a man devoted to a life of war and carnage, and it comes in mind a germanic barbarian, rushing at enemies while enraged, mad and blowing their many weapons. Paladins, by the other hand, are, in the melee aspect of the fight, knights, cavaliers, these historical european soldiers who carried more the status of "elites", they trained really well also on martial combat, but I'd say that paladins aim towards a more specific weaponry combat and discipline, as well as warriors are multi-weaponry users. Paladins remind me of roman pretorians, king's guardsman and the aforementioned knights. In WoW's perspective, we can say also that a paladin would abandon much of the ways of a warrior's melee moves to favor his energy in using the stronger and more effective holy light to damage enemies. As for a warrior, good armor and defencive combat will mitigate damage, you can't do much thing against one holding the power which created the universe.
But I agree, that a warrior might become a paladin, with proper training and faith.
How powerful are druids?
You should do a video on Undead Paladins and Sir Zeliek and whether or not Undead can channel the light if they are faithful enough.
Thanks for doing this vid (keep up the good work)
Thank you.
thanks for the video :) keep the good work :P
The only other class that I say could stand up to a paladin are Shamans. They are similarly empowered and martial in nature.
Keep in mind, a paladin is an elite warrior WITH divine powers. With lore in mind:
Warriors are basically just a guy with a melee weapon.
Priests have divine powers but are not primarily geared for combat or paladins would not have been needed in the first place.
Warlocks, Deathknights and Demon Hunters all rely on demonic, shadow or undeath to empower them. To the paladin, this makes them prey, for paladins are empowered specifically to fight such foes.
Rogues are just a guy with a knife.
Monks are just a martial artist.
Mages have powerful arcane abilities but the paladin at one point or another has abilities to hose such things such as Fire and Ice resistance auras. Yes they were fairly weak but that was for balance purposes. Realistically speaking, they would be far more powerful.
Hunters? Just a guy with a bow and a pet.
Knightstruth I main a ret. paladin and agree ...in PvP the only real problems come from good casters... I can usually handle everything else ....of course the only good warrior is one with pocket healers and even then I give them problems ....
I have to agree with some other commenters on a few points:
1) You seem to be placing the average mage too high on the scale. The average mage afaik isn't insanely destructive and could have their attacks deflected by a paladin and other classes. I think you're right about warlocks, warlocks (like demon hunters) are exceptional in every case.
2) You do too much of the "a good paladin is good and an ok paladin is ok". Yeah, we know they vary. That's obvious. Tell us things we don't necessarily know, like how an average paladin (or whatever class) performs in their intended role and compare with them in an intended role.
I remember thinking, back in the day when WoW was released, that paladins didn't really sit on the level of the other classes, since they were a Hero in WC3 (although they were also upgraded knight units in WC2). If only we'd had the concept of a hero class back then, but alas.
Hero and Prestige classes are as old was wargames. The Paladin was a prestige glass of the Chainmail and AD&D Fighter-man.
Thomas Paglione I was thinking about WoW in specific, but true.
I like how you make mentions of the case by case basis rule. Many try to search for a final and ultimate answer instead of acknowledging mitigating factors and different scenarios.
There is something to keep in mind. Tirion was being tortured for a while before we got there. Secondly, Gul'dan is insanely empowered by the Legion and Kiljaeden.
In Azeroth, world where magic reigns, many warriors have no choice but shed bitter tears
The order of the silver hand was created long before the first war, it was an order created to protect the secret of the hand of tyr. This is verified by playing the holy paladin artifact quest, needs an update.
i feel like ur just saying "well it really depends on the duel and the power level" for every single comparison, but u also gave some good examples, keep up the good work.
The next one should how powerful rouges are in the lore. Love your work.
Thank you. I still don't know which one I will do next but I will cover rogues at some point.
Agreed.
Honestly, lorewise an unexpected backstab can beat anyone. Now 1v1 would depend on the smartness of the rogue.
I think in a 1v1 rogues are reaaaally strong, because they are basically assassins. So they know how and where to strike to land a single fatal blow. They also excel at finding a weak spot in a blink of an eye, so for example, a paladin vs a rogue:
The paladin would see a poisoned huge ass dagger in his chest before he could cast a bubble.
Threats for rogues: DH, because of their cheating sight and their swiftness, giving rogues a hard time
Mages, because their magic can also detect invisible things and may blink away if they look behind them swiftly enough
DK, because one does not simply stab something that was already dead before
I have to say I really hate what blizzard has done to Blood Knights. They went from Badass Battle-mages who drain power from the Sunwell to boring ass Silver hand paladins.
back in 2004-2005, i had 2 guildmates (lvl 60 paladin and lvl 60 warrior), both were decked with complete set of Tier 0, the best pre-Ragnaros items one can wear (Lightforge and Valor). Then they had duels and all the time the Paladin won. The paladin had shield and heal spells while the warrior didn't have means to replenish health.
Each round took quite a while though, as Paladin at this stage had only a few high damage offensive capabilities, and this made people say it's the most boring class to play
I actually plan on creating a world of warcraft fanfiction that focuses on human paladin that was initially a strong believer in fighting for the alliance until he eventually finds reasons to doubt the alliance and goes rogue and perhaps his powers might atrophy due to his doubts
9:28 "fail on the magical side"
Screaming to myself: blessing of freedom!!!
I heard that in the old RPG books, experienced paladins were described as getting physically larger and more powerful over time, because channeling the light through their physical attacks and defenses, and buffing and healing themselves all the time, caused their bodies to get sort of "supercharged" and develop to greater health and strength.
Of course, they were old, and based on WCIII lore and not WoW lore (I suspect that the idea of them getting bigger and buffer was partly to explain why paladins in-game looked so huge and square...), but I'm not sure if it's ever been explicitly refuted, and most paladins DO seem to be particularly athletic. Is there any lore anywhere that's currently canon and that either refutes or supports the idea of the Light enhancing paladins physically, in that cumulative, passive way?
You say there were no recorded duels between paladins and DHs but even if there were you would probably just say ''However this was just one duel/specific scenario'' like you usually do
Can you do Shamans next? I'm really interested in how powerful shamans are lore-wise.
im thinking they have to be one of the most powerful ones since they can basically control all the elements.
That is what I was thinking and also why I want to have a video about them :P
Just look at the green living being that appears in all expansion cinematics, he is the best example of the power of a good shaman
You mean green jesus?
They significantly lowered his power in Legion though. In the Shaman quests he says that since he killed Garrosh he's lost touch with Doomhammer and the elements. Plus he gets 1v1ed by a regular demon at the Maelstorm .
Wings (Crusade) is still the best spell in the game, which give us a fighting chance in any fight
Something that is noteworthy though, Paladins were trained to counter Warlocks (which in turn, also "old" death knights since they were just souls of warlocks who were put into the bodies of the deceased".
I've always loved Paladins. Started with WC3 Arthas then Tirion. Now both dead T.T. Playing Pala in Legion taking over Tirions legacy/Reign. Keep it up. I love lore videos like this. Paladins forever! For the Light!
don't forget uther
Never will but he wasn't iconic for me as Arthas or Tirion was. WC3 was all about Arthas for me then WoW was Tirion in the Wrath of the Lich King. I would still rate Uther high though.
yeah but he's still worth mentioning. rip tirion, uther and arthas. the greatest paladins. you'll be forever in our hearts.
One thing about tirion's shillelaghs is that guldan gets a little power from sargarus as he is basically what is letting the burning legion terrorize Azeroth
Nevermind the lore and what would/could happen. I know my personal experience as a Holy paladin, and I absolutely hate fucking with priests, mages, DKs, and warlocks. There was a time when I had zero fear against any other class, but now with all the "balancing," I'm not sure how 1v1 duels will be. If I get fucking mana burned one more time, I'm going to unleash my Navy Seal sniper skills and on somebody and hack their location. Seriously. No more mana burn. You have to just put up with my limitless mana pool or you're fucking dead, kiddo.
Technically the trolls, particularly the Zandalari, were using the light before the Humans were. Also unlike the Draenei the races of Azeroth seem to have a natural ability to use the light while the Draenei were given this ability from the Naaru.
I’ve been stuck in combat with a warrior for a while because we both can heal ourselves.
We just stoped after like 45 minutes of combat and just waved and walked away.
I think it's important mentioning that 'blood elves' can be paladins, just like a human, although its just a lot more uncommon. A lot of the previous blood elves, became high elves and therefore disconnected to the new Sunwell, but they are still paladins through faith only. As well as some blood elves the same!
IMHO An average paladin would kick an average warriors ass. They are both SKILLED in martial combat and a warrior may be more skilled in theory, the paladins light powered are a force multiplier. Yeah it wouldn't be effective offesnively but defensivly it would protect and heal them. Imagine fighting a guy in plate, already Hard to hurt, but everytime you do succeed he heals or simply uses a shield to block it.
Furthermore I doubt paladins are far prowess is great, but super
There is a problem... light magic DOES NOT do more damage to undead, or demon beings in Legion. So paladins are on the same efficiency level as any other class in that matter. During vanilla light magic was doing more damage to undead or demoninc beings, I dont remember but I guess same was on BC too... but after Lich King all that have changed and light magic was not affecting the way it supposed to be.
So Doron who do you think would win in a duel between Illidan and Tirion Fordring?
Illidan would be at his Black Temple power level empowered by only himself and his main weapons.
Tirion would be at his ICC power level.
I think Illidan would not be able to kill or even mortally wound Tirion due to his sheer defensive might and tenacity as seen in ICC and the Broken Shore surviving days being submitted to fel torture.
I do think Illidan would have no problem getting close and personal though.
There is also the case of how the Ashbringer would react to touching fel blood or even the Twin Blades of Azzinoth as they are inferior weapons. The Ashbringer shattered Frostmourne and I believe it would do the same to the Twin Blades of Azzinoth.
Hmm, it would be very hard to say really. I think that Illidan would definitely outmatch Tirion in melee combat but I don't think he would be able to kill him. His protection of the Light is too great and he could definitely be capable of shattering the warglaives of azzinoth.
Doronsmovies
Well I never said it was a deathmatch so it works for me xd
Tirion > Arthas the Lich King > Arthas the Death Knight > Illidan
Konstantin Riumin
-_-
You really need to read the Illidan novel and Arthas: Rise of the Lich King if you think that comparison makes sense. Just because someone defeated someone doesn't mean he is stronger than an opponent the other one fought. By your logic Maiev defeated Illidan therefore she is stronger than him and even Magtheridon. However in the book Illidan defeats Maiev and her army and she was already defeated previously by Kael'Thas and Lady Vashj in Warcraft III. Another example of the same logic would be saying that the fel monster that defeated Tirion is obviously stronger than the Lich King.
Loved this video man,big fan of the Paladin and Shamans. Hope you can do Shamans next time.
Yay my sort of favorite class. Always love your videos.
Thank you. :)
I'm just going to point out a little flaw in all of this. One about Paladins not being as great in arms as general warriors. Theres honestly no reason that they couldn't be and remember that Knights of stormwind were losing to Orcs, until Paladins came along by your logic a knight should be far superior in arms to a paladin but that's just not the case and also I feel that you brushed off the whole empowerment thing as if it was nothing. This empowerment of the light throughout their bodies is a major factor in what makes a Paladin able to stand up to things so much bigger than himself in ability or size.
Amazing video! TY so much for making this.
Very nice video! I can't wait to see How powerful are rogues and monks.
I feel that what paladins lack in overwhelming power like with warlocks they make up for in overwhelming stubbornness to die or having their will broken.
Interesting comparison. But after seeing all your other videos, what got me intrigued are the priest. They have been mentioned as a counter to most of them, but I can't remember many powerful priests in lore.
Because priests are mostly healers. They are the goalkeepers in football (soccer). When they are on the team no one gives a fuckk about them but if there is none the team is dead.
Are the protection paladins most powerfull class ? coz i saw a paladin that cant die 10vs1 in cataclysum expansion ???
you should do priests next, I'd like it mainly for the shadow part
Great series I hope there will be more of it
doron i mostly agree with your video (and i imagine comparing classes lore wise must be a pain in the a**) but you have to remember that paladins were created to fight orcish warlocks during the second war, so i think in a purely lore-wise scenario paladins would have some counters to defend and fight against locks...
wow i really like this videos keep up u really make great videos. what will be next class?
Thank you. Still not sure at this point.
druids ofc :D they have really good lore
or shamans maybe
I just have to bring this one up. You say around 4 minute mark how broken have had similar thing happen to them (as in they lost their faith/resolve and therefore lost the light) but based on the short story Unbroken that is available at the official site (which I would therefore rate quite high on the lore accuracy) broken actually have quite the opposite happen to them. worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/story/short-story/unbroken
To give short version of what happens with light and the broken: Nobundo is wielding light without any trouble. He inhales some weird miasma and this miasma has demonic magic in it at some levels, which (based on description and story) permanently severs his and others like him connection to Light. Based on description draenai have their connection severed forcibly from the Light and this causes them to become broken.
So at least in this or these cases, the paladin losing their connection with the light happens first and the loss of this connection causes doubt in them, rather than the other way around as described in the video.
As for the DH versus paladin and what happens with Tirion, I would say that the demon/fel magic is close to that of void magic, but at the same time different. Paladins could be thought to be best against void magic (i.e. shadow priest) and undead. Fel magic could be thought to be amalgamation of Fire and void magic and therefore to be slightly more efficient against paladins, though at the same time more easily countered than pure fire magic. Warlock would have most likely more trouble with paladin than a mage, as mage just wields quite powerful arcane powers and could just most likely (provided strong enough mage) overwhelm a paladin, where as warlocks magics either have affinity or are purely based on void magic.
Paladins more often have their light magic being defensive, restorative and enhancing which in sense again would suggest that their ability to protect themselves from void magic would be the excelling effect, rather than smiting their foes.
These are obviously not in game things that are being talked about but the lore behind what the game is based on.
please next do how powerful are the shamans
Will cover them, most likely not next though.
excelente vídeo! Amazing video, thank you from brazil!
During the broken shore scenario Tirion wasn't on holy ground. Also he was under constraints placed by an empowered Gul'dan and was fel blasted by what looked to be a pretty powerful demon. Just sayin.
ID like to apologize as I just noticed this series is new. I'm sure you got rogue, hunter, monk, priest, mage and shaman coming in the near future.
There was a time when paladins were probably the most powerful class in WoW. So powerful that a single blood-elf paladin could last 15 minutes or more of onslaught in Stormwind. Back in the old days of BC, beginning of WoTLK. Peasants and low-levels were enraged, chats were full of rants and whines "Paladins are OP! Blizzard do something!" and it was good :)
For the LIGHT !
tier 2 on a 3 tier system
warlocks been tier 1 but only if they let it all go, then tier 2 been mages, druids, paladins, sharman's and DK and lastly tier 3 been warriors, rogues, monks, hunters and priest.
now shadow priest and demon hunters i don't know about id likely put them in tier 2.
Well you have to cover the strongest class now, THE WARRIOR!
Hey Dorons, are you going to do only the main classes, or are you going to mention weird sub-classes like spellbreakers and necromancers? Not bitching but it would be interesting to see how you think they pair up to our regular main classes.
Probably not for this series but I do want to cover the lore classes that are not playable, either in a separate video or in something else.
I actually think shadow priests could best paladins because shadow priests are not absent of the light, they basically use the light the same way that Jedi's use the dark side. The light is basically "the force"
Not exactly. The "dark side" doesn't exist as a thing or something usable. The only thing that exists is the force and the difference is how it is used. Think of the Force as a scalpel. In the hands of a surgeon it saves hundreds of lives. In the hands of a serial killer it will kill hundreds of lives. Anyway a shado2 paladin is useless.
However the Light and the Void are 2 really different things/entities.
Holy fuck the amount of misinformation in these videos is astouding. I haven't even gotten to the part where he attempts to pit paladins against the other classes but wow.
EDIT: I finished the video and I'm happy to report that at least he was very fair in judging their relative power levels to other classes. Although, I think Doronsmovies is way to biased towards mages and warlock casters. The likes of Gul'dan and Jiana, the type of mages that could crush every other class are of heroic power levels. The average mage would be utterly destroyed by an average or either weaker paladin as they cannot rely on summoning meteorites or colossal demons but, instead usually have to rely on small projectiles or direct magical attacks, both of which can be blocked by the paladin's defensive magic.
The strongest mage would be able to kill the strongest paladin, but that's it.
Interestingly, tauren ''paladin'' NPCs in game themselves talk about the ''Light', back in MoP and WoD, while we know they are ''sun paladins'' technically, we don't really know much about their Earthmother, except they worship its other part in counter to Night elf worship of the moon. By that we could say that its just Elune both races worship even if the tauren themselves don't know it., high possibility since the tauren have had a high affinity for all things Nature long before night elevs even existed and even had relations with Cenarius before aswell.
Tauren existed when elves were still trolls, they were one of the primitive races on Azeroth along with trolls and others. When you read specifically about druidism, the tauren befriended Cenarius when they were still primitive due to their love and care for all things nature, they are the children of wilds, after a while Cenarius left em and later on gained connection with the highborne elves, teaching Malfurion Stormrage druidism who became the first mortal druid.
We do not know if Cenarius taught tauren any druidism during their time together, but since Malfurion is considered the first mortal druid, then we have to assume he didn't and they were just friends.
But the point is, Cenarius has a great respect for the tauren race because of their affinity to nature since the beginning of their existence.
Looking forward to the monks, especially the brewmaster!
From the gameplay perspective Demon Hunters (depends on the player) could be really easely defeated by Paladins,but also sometimes they can be really hard. From my experience - I play random BG as Pally and two Demon Hunters jumped on me it was 1v2 duel,but with the help of the healing spells and the power of the light i survived (barely) but i did :D So for the Pally vs DH thing i think it depends on individual (btw i had pretty much same health and ilevel as the DH had)
IMO night elfs were tuned to priesthood long before vrykul evolved/devolved into humans and coming to the Light. We even see that in the Well of Eternity dungeon with Tyrande using the Light. Not trying to be rude or anything. But I do agree that humans seems to be the most attuned to the Light, well expect from the Draenei.
Can you make a video on Priestesses of Elune vs. Holy priests?
it would depend on the priest i assume.But i say Elune :D
Oguzhan kaygısız Not just a vs. battle but also the main differences and similarities between them. Can a night elf be a holy priest or can a human be a Priestess of Elune?
With priests of equal power, the Elune priestess is going to get rekt during day, because while Elune's power in lore is usable during day, its less so during day.
While during night, both are at an equal footing/fighting chance since as far as the lore is concerned, Holy Light's power is not dependent on night or day (atleast if you're not a Tauren sun-priest?).
Plus Elune's power is probably limited to Azeroth (makes you wonder how they explain them using it in outland, in wow). Whereas the Holy light is a universally present phenomenon, which existed even before the universe did. You can wield the Holy light just as effectively (can do it even more effectively on holy ground) even if you're in the twisting nether.
According to the new lore Elune created the Naaru which are the Gods of the Light so yeah. Also while both Elune and the Light rely on faith, with Elune she chooses whether or not to aid, so there's that.
Katrina Syndae " According to the new lore Elune created the Naaru"
And what lore would that be? I read the chronicle top to bottom. Never saw that.
Whereas it was mentioned quite clearly that the light was a universal force that existed way before even the universe existed, leave alone Azeroth and its deities.
Rather, it would make more sense if Elune derived her powers from it, as Velen actually speculates in the Wolfheart novel.
Love this pls make more
Will do. :)
I beat a lot of demon hunters with my Paladin so I'm not so sure that Paladins can't handle them
If we base it on the concepts/text/lore and not the in game stats, I think that Paladin's would make far better infantry than warriors. Warriors as a class are very powerful and certain lore characters are very special-case powerful warriors, but the actual concept is far too human and is outdone by rogues, when you consider that an accomplished rogue can kill anyone at any time, without them realizing. Rogues would not make good footsoldiers however on a field of battle because... where the hell are you going to find an army?
But yeah, with how you call Paladins a really well-rounded class, they would make for a great army. facilitate them with holy priests and fire/arcane mages, and I think you have a nicely themed, well rounded and versatile army.
Warriors are just men. Or women. or non-human men and women. Which makes their accomplishments so damn impressive. But there are very few who can number among the truly impressive warriors... that aren't already jacked up powerful races.
Agreed. I feel like paladins can be considered an evolution of the warrior. While not neccessarily stronger across the board, their advantage is that they become just so much more flexible.
Literally all of them are turtled up in heavy plate, and in a pinch fulfill any role (You'll never catch a paladin army without healers, even if none of them are specialized in that field). They're extra resilient against disease, which is REALLY important for any army, and their use of the light would make them god-tier shock troopers against undead and demons.
The only downside is the stigma the light carries - you can only wield the light if you believe in your purpose. Because of the way the Azerothian religions work, that means that even though you don't necessarily have to worship the light to wield the light, you would essentially need to be a zealous worshipper of the light to truly believe in your ability to wield it.
Anyone not part of the religions would have trouble being able to find confidence in their use of the light, since they would be under the impression that the light is a religious tool
(Personally with the abilities of the light, I think that the light is just an energy, and is in essentiality psionic power like in the starcraft series. Its uses are just far too similar to the functions of most protoss units for me to not see it that way.)
Thus the reason I think it is not religious but is in fact mind powers that the priests/paladins and shadow priests awaken in themselves through their confidence in their beliefs.
So Paladin's are essentially psionic warriors
+Mikazuchi Yes, I have always seen the paladin as the Superman of Warcraft classes. Not the strongest, not the most durable, not the fastest and not the most agile. But they have all their traits in such an extreme level that they can't be outmatched. Lorewise just take a look at the ones that kept the Legion at bay in their own world (Argus) where they are most powerful: Turalyon and the draenei paladins. I don't know if you're still playing but at this point this won't be a spoil (I hope), Turalyon is alive and kicking the Legion's ass.
Meanwhile the "powerful" Demon Hunters were struggling to fight lesser demons in the Broken Isles.
Excellent work! I'm loving these videos. Can we expect shaman anytime soon? :)
It would be more accurate to say sunwalkers are Shaman of the sun, rather than druids of the sun.
Balance druids actually use the sun and moon. Druids are important parts of tauren society thanks to night elven influence I believe, but Shaman are spiritual leaders and that extends to sunwalkers as I see it.
You forgot to mention one of the most powerful paladins Illidan Stormrage.
Despite you not responding to others who proved my points in the DK video something i gotta say here:
DKs were NOT made to counter Paladins. DKs existed quite a bit before Paladins were created and paladins were created specifically to counter DKs (WC2) that Paladins proved to be usefull against the undead of the scourge was also quite logically but thats not what they were made for.
And while a DKs powers can surpass that of a Paladin, in most cases the Paladin will win against the DK. Thats what they were made for and their powers greatly hurt Undead (and thus most DKs but MOST! Not all DKs are undead there are also unliving ones which is quite a difference) and their powers counter fel magic (as the first DKs were warlocks) so they also kinda counter Demonhunters. And against your DH fanboyism DHs are not as good in melee as warriors are and are not used to fighting against armor. They are specialised troops against demons - anything not demon has a rather good chance against them.
A warrior will usually win against a Pala as he has a lot more combat training and experience in special also fighting armored enemies and he wont be, other than DKs or DHs, in special hurt by the powers of the Paladin.
What's the difference between being Undead and Unliving? lol
I guess it unliving would be something that didn't actually die, but is just displaying the traits of an undead character... kinda like Arthas? That's my best guess lol
Baconman161 Undead have all the benefits and disadvantages of undeath while unliving basicly are still alive, they still have bodily functions, needs and capabilities but to a lower degree than alive beings and also share some benefits of undeath like theoretical immortality. Basicly unliving DKs are not in special affected by lightmagic but they also still can run out of stamina. For this scenario an unliving DK would have a much better chance against a Paladin than an undead one.
Matthew Cohn that is very correct and Arthas is a good example. Unliving DKs are basicly still alive and slowly degrade into undeath - they share a few traits of being alive and a few of being undead, kinda having the benefits of both worlds to a lesser degree
Orkar Isber
Arthas may have never died and been raised as a Death Knight. But after his fight with Illidan he cut out his own heart so he wouldn't be held back by human emotions and stuff. And you have to think that all that necromantic power would've pushed him into being an Undead. And unliving by definition means dead just so you know. lol
One thing I'm curious about is that since there are night elf priests would night elf paladins fit
Sr Doronsmovies, When will you add the warrior?
I really liked our video; the only disagreement I have is that Paladins are much better at controlling the Light than Priests. It's said by Blizzard that while Priests can wield the light, Paladins are a beacon of light.
I'd switch that around, Paladins are better at wielding the Light (as in against others), but Priests are the beacon of Light (they more purely channel it, potentially enough to overpower a Paladin if they would somehow clash, but more likely not win). An apex Priest likely has more Light power but Paladins are generally the ones to put it into effect in battle more often, more capably. This isn't so bad for Priests though since they can still be capable *casters* (so they don't need to just clash all the time) and they have better concentration to use the Light to heal themselves/others.
+Malcolm Swoboda Read again the descriptions at the character creation mode in WoW
A shadow priest turns a paladin into a warrior with less skill, because the light relys on conviction and a shadow priest attacks the mind, instantly stopping the paladin from being able to use the light at all. this is of course lore wise as game play cant allow this or it would make shadow priest far too op mind controllers.
please do a priest one. Also could you talk about Disc priest compared to the other specs?
It feels like warlocks counter every class :D
I firmly believe the two most powerful classes have to be warlocks and Druids with shamans and DH just behind
Well, there is a reason why the Burning Crusade has defeated so many worlds. The fel is a strong power source.
But looking at the other videos, it looks like Priest is a good contender since they can use two extremely opposite force. No powerful priest in lore though
Why do you think that is? That there are on powerful priests in lore. You said they use two extremely opposite forces. Priests are like the balance. Maybe there are no power lore priests because they are what keeps the balance between good and evil. For there to be a powerful priest on one side being shadow or light would go against their very existence. This is all just my idea of course. But I think priests are the most powerful out there but they keep the balance so you will never see the strongest ones in lore.
What you mention is the discipline priest, the one that balances light and shadow. Holy and shadow priest go all the way in and currently can't even use spells from the other aspect.
More like Mages do, since vanilla, but not sure in lore dont think so.
It's here!
'' Hello guys its ?????''
I literally had no idea what the fuck he said the first few times i saw it
between paladins and Demon Hunters? Sandor sums it up. Paladins would win because they have plate armor and a big arse sword. the effects of plate armor are so underappreciated in these lore scenarios. Paladins were drawn mostly from the knightly class. They werent amateurs to combat, it was the back bone of their identity. Light usage was added to that.
"Light, Grant me one final blessing. Give me the strength to shatter these bonds"
"God, grant me strenth"
Not even close to a religion..
I feel like all of this just boils down to "Depends on the pair fighting"
That is true. I do my best to generalize but every duel is on a case to case basis. A class that would be considered weak on average would be able to take down the strongest one dependent on the circumstances.