Strong Floating Shelves - Responding to Questions and Comments
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- Опубликовано: 1 июн 2024
- I had a lot of questions and comments on my video, Strong Floating Shelves, The Strongest Option. I answer a number of them in this video along with building a couple of lighter duty floating shelves using 1/4" and 5/16" all thread rods instead 5/8" rod like in the earlier video. The thinner rods are easier to work with but are also surprisingly strong as well when I strength test them.
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Over engineering is a wonderful thing. I am a huge advocate for over engineering whenever possible. So long as it doesn’t affect the overall appearance. This way I trust that my project will remain the same for years to come. Great job 👍🏽
I just found your channel an hour or so ago… amazing skill, knowledge, and craftsmanship!!! You are one of those rare teachers that, even though I don’t understand most of the finish carpentry stuff, I feel smarter after watching 😁 I recently got into building shelves of various types and these floating shelf videos are perfect for some of my hopeful projects. Thanks and keep it up bro 🥳
Just saw your second post, Justin! Thanks again for your comments and for watching! Sounds like you are on a good path to building on your woodworking skills. You keep it up, too!
Thanks Rusty, great tutorial.
Ignore the naysayers, your methods are an intelligent belt and braces way of getting a reliable job done.
Thanks Greg and I don't mind people disagreeing with me. If their comments cross lines of
decency and appropriateness, I rarely even finish reading them. RUclips has tools to delete the comments and ban a viewer, if necessary. So, the comments I included in the video were not problematic. I mainly used them to show the contrast in viewpoints. Most comments were very positive on the all thread methods. I have never heard the phrase "belt and braces way" of getting something done. What's the backstory to that?
Your work is appreciated and valued.
Thanks again, Purple! I always appreciate your positive comments. You too are appreciated and valued, my friend!
I just finished up my first floating shelf based on your last video. This shelf is going to be used to display my segmented bowls and vases. They are very light so I decided to use the 5/16" threaded rods. All I can say it works perfectly and is definitely strong enough for my needs. Thanks for all of your videos on floating shelves. I like the options!
I have been waiting for a conclusions video. Thank you for delivery. The store bought kits never held well in my opinion. You have taken this along way from the first customer project video.
Thanks, Joshua! Yes, this video pretty much covers the rest of the spectrum of ideas I have had about floating shelves. Definitely a journey from the first video. Thanks for watching and for your comment!
Hey Rusty, I just wanted to drop a thanks for these floating shelf videos! I tapped 5/16" about 3" into the studs, threaded some 12" rods in to it, and locked it in with a washer and nut. Drilled out (2) 2x6's as my shelf and it worked like a charm. 13/16" paddle bit gave me plenty of clearance for the washers, and let me hide the nuts. Plenty sturdy for a shelf under our TV, and I'm excited to finish it out with sanding and paint!
Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts and ideas, J! Sounds like you completely know what you are doing and should have a very solid installation. I always appreciate folks like you filling me in on how you are doing things! Glad my stuff was a little helpful!
Great video! Glad to see someone who thinks through the process and has pride in their work.
Thanks, Brian! I appreciate your comment and thanks for watching!
Love your videos Rusty!! Keep it up!
Thanks Jentonio! Will do! I appreciate the encouragement!
Another home run Mr Dobbs...thanks for sharing!
Thanks Mark! I appreciate you watching!
Enjoyed your interaction and intersection with your viewers’ comments and how you’re thinking with them. I had a few of the same questions, and you explained your rationale well. Definitely an expert with this craft. IKEA no more. Ready to crank on the drill press & fire up another excuse for a domino joiner
I appreciate you watching and your comments, Robert! I do understand trying to come up with an excuse to buy a domino cutter! I bought my Festool domino cutter probably 5 years ago to build some gates for a customer. I did not pocket the profit on that job but ended up with the domino cutter which I love, so it was worth it!
your commentary is so helpful!
Thanks, m b! I appreciate you watching!
I enjoy your videos Rusty. I also have 1 question. What if you used your 2 X 2 back support and countersink enough depth into the wall side to accommodate the head of a 1/4" X 6" lag bolt going into your support arms. Drill into the support arms to the depth needed. (Instead of using dowels) Mount to the wall the way you do.
Hi Rusty! I came across your videos after I built the first of 3 floating shelves I'm making for a friend. All 3 when finished will be 8' wide, two of which are 8" deep and one will be 12" deep. I have constructed the mounting bracket out of 2"x2" pine and used a Kreg jig to drill the holes in the smaller perpendicular pieces that will stick out. So there is 2 screws in each of the five 2"x2"x5" that are mounted to the longer 2"x2"x7'10', which attaches to the wall. The shelf that slides over the bracket is constructed entirely out of 3/4" pine (I realize now I could have made the "shelf sleeve" lighter). I feel pretty confident that these will hold a lot of weight, but I wanted to run this by you for your opinion. The items to be displayed on the shelves will be antique sewing machines... all metal. The 12" deep shelf will hold the machines that are a bit bigger, each one weighing around 50 lbs.. I want to feel better about knowing the shelf won't crack under the weight, especially since these will be displayed in a cafe. My thought is that as long as the weight is spread out over the 8'that the shelf should still be very sturdy. The building is older and the walls are plaster, which I hope will help with strength. In this situation I would prefer not to use metal rods, but could use a couple L-brackets on the 12" deep shelf if I need to. In your opinion do you think the shelves will be strong enough? For my peace of mind I would appreciate any comments. Thank you!
Hey, Angela! It certainly sounds like you know what you are doing and I'm sure you understand that it's difficult for me to speculate about how much weight these might hold. I have not used pocket holes for this type of floating shelf construction but I have seen others use them with good success. I think the fact that your shelves are made out of 3/4" material is probably a good thing in this case and should take some of the pressure off the pocket hole screws to carry the weight. I don't think you mentioned how you are attaching the shelves to the walls, as in are you going to try to find the studs through the plaster or use something like toggle bolts to hold your brackets to the plaster walls? But yes, I think the plaster walls will help your overall assembly be stronger. The best way to know how they will hold up is to try them out. Obviously, the closer the sewing machines are to the wall, the more downward force you have on your brackets as opposed to a cantilever effect on the assembly if the machines are closer to the front edges of the shelf. And as you've already suggested, if you have any concerns when you're done, install some L brackets to give you the peace of mind you need. Glad you ran across my channel and thanks for your question. I always enjoy hearing from people like you! Good luck with this project and future projects I know you have in the works!
thank you, interesting
you used a method called post-tensioning usually applied to concrete pre-fab slabs or even stone slabs.
Thanks, Roberto! I appreciate you watching and your comments!
I'm not an engineer, but I do understand basic engineering principals. Ideally, if you move the rod closer to the 2x which is parallel to it, (inside it would be best, or sandwiched between two of them) then you will put that wood in compression, and the rod in tension, and the shelf will be much more solid. Additionally if the rod is closer to the top of the shelf, rather than the bottom (as you did) then it will also help strengthen, because the angle will be better and you'll gain more tension when it's loaded.
Thanks for the explanation, Jim. I'm more familiar with post tension concrete pours, but the concept is similar to what is happening with the rod, I think. I was surprised by the effect of tightening the nuts on the rods to the overall rigidity of the shelves. Amazing sometimes what tweaks in designs of projects can produce in overall performance. Thanks again for your explanation!
@@RustyDobbs Ha, ha, well it's my best guess.
Yeah, it's the same concept as with a concrete footing and where the rebar is placed(lower 1/3 of the footing or so) to provide tension, which is what I thought about when I saw your shelf flexing a bit.
@@RustyDobbs Hi there, structural engineer here! The post-tensioned concrete analogy is a really interesting observation and actually pretty accurate. When you tighten the nuts, the washers clamp down on the wood and put it into compression and the rod is pulled (equal and opposite) into tension. I'm not sure if the rods are really behaving like rebar in a concrete beam here. But I think tightening the washers at least takes some slack out of the rod and forces the steel and the wood to behave compositely, which makes the cantilever shelf stiffer overall. And the compression drawing the shelf back into the stud wall has to help with the deflection and rotation too. Neat design!
You’re in good shape, rusty. I’m a use some 5/8 all threads. When I build mine.
Hope that works out well for you, Charles! Thanks for watching!
Your ideas and videos are awesome. Don't listen to the naysayers. Haters are always going to hate.
Thanks, szkrcd, and I don't mind a little disagreeing with me if it is done without being inappropriate. The comments I included in the video were added to show the biggest contrast in views from my own but I didn't take any of them to be out of line. The vast majority of the comments overall on the video were completely supportive of the design ideas and I don't think there was a single comment that I deleted because it was over the top. I do get one of those every once in a while, but I typically never finish reading them before they are deleted. I can usually tell in the first sentence where a comment is heading. Thanks for watching and I appreciate your support and encouragement!
Hey Mr Dobbs! Great follow up! I think you've successfully defined the last word in all-thread-mounted floating shelves, not only as to design, but presented in a clear format enjoyable to watch.
Now let me toss out something completely new that you may find intriguing. What about a simple hardwood 2x2 stick (1 1/2" square thickness), projecting from a hole in the drywall as a floating shelf bracket? Mount one to each stud, for as long as the shelf needs to be. The mounting would be to cut a 1 1/2" square hole through the drywall alongside the stud, insert the bracket into this hole as far as it will go until it touches the opposite drywall, and then drill pilot holes and drive 2 screws at an angle through 2 extra holes in the drywall (off to the side), through the hardwood stick, and into the stud, so that the bracket is secured to the side of the stud by 2 screws inside the stud cavity. A drill guide jig to achieve the correct angles and locations for the screw holes could easily be designed and fabricated at the workbench from scrap, and used to install it. And the screw holes in the drywall would be hidden behind the rear edge of the shelf. If the shelf is later removed, these holes would provide easy access to the bracket/stud screws.
I imagine a 1 1/2" hardwood stick, screwed to the side of the stud and projecting out through the drywall, and supporting the floating shelf from front to back as part of its internal structure, would be able to carry a lot of weight before starting to bend or break. And if extra strength is needed, install 2 of these brackets per stud, one on either side. What do you think?
Hey, JusBidniss! Yeah, I think your new idea is a good one. Seems like it changes the focus of where potential failure occurs to the lateral strength of the screws and the shear strength of the sheetrock doesn’t it? On the one hand, it seems like more effort than other methods, but then again, all you are doing is cutting small square holes in the sheetrock and coming up with a simple way to run a couple of screws into the brackets and side of the stud. Doubling the brackets to each side of the stud, effectively doubles the strength capacity, it would seem. Add some adhesive to the brackets and studs and you have increased the strength by some other factor again. The only thing that bugs me a little is the screws potentially being the weak link if the shelves were pushed to the point of failure and I have no idea how you would begin to estimate what the weight capacity might be. If it failed, it would be an epic one to see! I can see something like that for stacking lumber on a wall in a shop or garage. Is that a design you are considering trying out?
@@RustyDobbs Hey Rusty, thanks for the reply and the feedback! I don't have a need at the moment to install floating shelves, but my next one I am planning on doing it this way. It was just an idea I had, since you've gotten the all-thread approach down to a science now! 😎 You're right that the weak link is the shear strength of the 2 construction screws (I don't think the bottom edge of the hole in the drywall would provide much support), and also if they are in the same line of grain in the 2x2, the 2 holes could split the stick, under enough load. It is similar to those lumber racks on an unfinished wall where you just screw lengths of 2x4 right to the sides of the studs. And adding glue to the side of the 2x2 before inserting through the hole in the drywall and screwing it to the stud would definitely increase the strength of that joint. In fact, if you wanted to do that much drywall patching, you could open a larger hole and screw a chunk of 2x4 to the stud below the 2x2 bracket to support it, like a small jack stud. And another one above the 2x2 would really sandwich it in, and then the only point of failure would be the strength of the hardwood stick. But I do think a couple of 3" construction screws would be a sufficient diameter and hardness, that they shouldn't shear off, leastways under any load that could be put on 16" of the shelving (just going by gut on that, though). Anyway, once the 2 (or more) brackets are in place, then the shelf could easily be assembled to slide onto them, maybe 1/2" plywood as a top, 1/4" bottom, 2x2 internal frame glued to the top and bottom skins, with gaps for the brackets, and edging all around. A small set screw in the bottom could lock it to the bracket and retain it from sliding off, but I'm thinking that won't be necessary. Studs are notorious for twisting a bit and not being perfectly square to the drywall surface, so fastening the 2x2 to the side of one would make it slightly not perpendicular, providing some friction sliding it into the floating shelf frame. I am looking forward to trying it. If you like it and beat me to it, I'd love to see your take on it in a future video (just because I like your video content, production values, and your approach to design and fabrication). Anyway, thanks again Rusty!
Ouch no wonder creaters menton mean and snarky comments! I really like your approach allowing floating shelves using what any one can get at any hardware store.
Thanks for watching, Marty!
Hey Randy,
Love you videos! How would you attach these floating shelves to metal studs?
Thanks!
- Jim
Thanks, Jim! Hate to say it but metal studs are more of a challenge. The best way would be to cut access points in your wall to slip 2x wood studs into the metal studs where the shelves are going to be attached. Then I would limit the amount of weight I put on the shelves. You would need to practice your skills on patching sheet rock as well!
How would you go about installing a floating desk or small bed? Something like 6ft or 8ft wide and 3ft deep? Would the larger rods handle something like that?
I think the problem wouldn't be the rods, though an inch thick (at least) would be necessary, but the strain on your studs would be colossal and they'd likely break.
@@GregWallis thanks for the reply. I was initially going to try a French cleat method so the force is distributed along the studs better instead of just a single spot. After watching these videos it seems the rods would work but put a ton of leverage on the studs.
Hey Christopher! I'm kind of with Greg on his comments. I think if I were doing something like you are talking about depth wise, I would go to flat bar steel welded in an "L" bracket that is mounted to the face of the studs, then sheetrocked, taped and textured to cover that leg of the bracket. Depending on the depth, I might even weld on a 45 degree piece to the bracket to take the bounce out of the steel. Good question!
How would i secure one to a brick wall?
I would like to install a 30 pound live wood floating bar shelf in my basement. The problem I have it is an exterior foundation wall which only half inch studs against concrete block foundation. The basement is also drywalled . Should I be thinking of drilling a full thread rod into the concrete block? You comments would be appreciated. Thank you
Yeah, Jeff, you are heading in the right direction with your thoughts. I would plan on setting your rods into the concrete blocks and using an appropriate adhesive to glue them in place. You can disregard the studs and drywall for providing any structural value to your floating bar shelf. Good luck on your project!
0:50 ... secure the lag bolts with adhesive?? Why? Is there a danger that they would unscrew from the stud?
For many contractors, you can never use enough adhesive, Mike! More adhesive means less chance of being called back because something came loose! 🙂 I actually understand that mindset and have on occasion made sure there was an abundance of adhesive on something that was for sure a permanent installation. On floating shelf installs like these, using adhesive on the threads reflects that intention that you don't ever plan on pulling the rods and is overkill, but there are some circumstances where I would add some adhesive to the threads, just because. Do I think there is a chance they would unscrew from the stud? Not a chance... 🙄
If you flex a rod, it's linear length is reduced (measured in a straight line, it's now shorter). If you fix its linear length, by tensioning it, then you inhibit flexion.
Simple and to the point explanation, Justin! Makes perfect sense. Thanks for watching!
Pleases can you do a video doing these in concrete walls.
About the only thing you can do for concrete walls, theandroids, is to drill holes in the wall and use either manufactured anchors or drill holes to be able to epoxy steel rods into the holes in the concrete walls. People do that sort of thing all the time so there are a lot of options out there for ways to pull this off.
@@RustyDobbs Thanks. Was going to use concrete screws or bolts for easy removal.
The force is actually tension, not compression if you go to about 6:00 into this video m.ruclips.net/video/cZINeaDjisY/видео.html
He explains it
Now, I'm no structural engineer, but I've certainly watched many hours of youtube videos about it, lol. My training is mathematics, and amazingly it doesn't seem to hinder my understanding of it. :-)
As you tighten the nuts, you're applying tension to those rods. If the rods are placed through channels in concrete forms, then you have post-tensioned concrete. Pre-tensioning would be when you apply tension to the rods before the concrete is poured over the rods to make the concrete forms you need. Concrete is much stronger in compression (where the forces are pressing into it) than in tension (where the forces are pulling it apart), The rods add compression forces into the concrete, which increases the tension strength of the concrete.
The same principle applies here. Wood is also much stronger in compression than it is in tension. However, wood is stronger in tension when the force is applied with the grain (where it's trying to rip wood fibers into two pieces) than when it is applied perpendicular to the grain (where it's just trying to pull wood fibers away from each other). Most of the force on the rods in this case are tensional, so to maximize the strength we need the rods to go with the wood grain. Tightening the bolts at the end of the rods "post-tensions" that wood, which gives the whole structure even more tension strength.
LOL, come to think of it, applying "pre-tension" to wood would mean tensioning rods and growing a tree around it!? Ain't nobody got time for that.
Ok, Rino, when I get comments like yours, I know I’m going to have to scratch my head and think really hard, which doesn’t come as easily for me these days. By the time I finished reading your comment, I did understand your last sentence about pre-tensioning a rod and growing a tree around it! Better stop while I’m ahead! I think I’m ready for Jeopardy! Thanks for taking the time to comment and for watching! 🙂
As you probably already know, everyone on the internet has a "better way" of doing it than you do. A lot of those comments just come with the territory.
Way too much effort. However, it is good to learn different approaches.
I get that comment at times, Thomas. Not sure I understand it because all that’s really happening is you are drilling a hole in the stud and spinning a threaded rod into it. But, yes, there are lots of ways to accomplish things like this. Thanks for watching.
Nice work sir, but for Pete sake, your average human being has no time or patience to try this type of project. Know your audience sir and create something the less skilled person can accomplish with “simple” tools. I think you forget the amount of tools accessible to you in order to complete something this detailed. Nice job regardless.
No, Shawn, I haven't forgotten that different projects require a lot of different tools depending on how complex they are. We all start somewhere and I didn't have much many years ago when I started making things. Here is a link to a video I did a couple of years back about the first shelf I ever built where I pretty much used a cheap jigsaw, hammer and nails to put it together. I get your point anyway and consider myself very fortunate to have accumulated the number of tools I have over time. Thanks for watching and I appreciate your comments. ruclips.net/video/pD7c1w92Q1c/видео.html