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What's Wrong With Wakanda?
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- Опубликовано: 2 май 2018
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Wakanda could never exist in the real world.
Wakanda is frustrating because it perpetuates the myth that an abundance of a really valuable natural resource is all you need to create a prosperous and extremely advanced society. This is simply not true. Matt Ridley, author of The Rational Optimist, wrote about how isolationism actually leads to a regress in technology.
Check out these other articles to learn more about isolationism and protectionism:
The Case Against Protectionism by Larry Reed
fee.org/articl...
Herbert Spencer Was Right: Protectionism Is Really Aggression-ism by Gary M. Galles
fee.org/articl...
A lot of commenters here seem to think that it's possible to replace the effects of open trade and entrepreneurship with spies and corporate espionage.
It's not. Here's why:
While it's true that spies can potentially acquire useful information from other parts of the world and bring that information back to their home countries, the knowledge they bring back is severely limited in several ways.
1) It's limited because any individual only has the capacity to learn and retain a tiny fraction of the overall sum total of knowledge available to an entire society. There is an epistemological problem at the core of the spy theory that cannot be overcome.
Knowledge is dispersed and decentralized across society. We each have a lot of specific knowledge that no one else has or will ever have, including information about what resources are available in different places, what skills we have and how to apply them to various resources, what's valuable to us and why, etc. Everybody is unique in this regard, and no individual can ever hope to gain access to all this knowledge at once. Not even the best spy in history.
The way we all get to benefit from all these unique bits of knowledge is through the free exchange of ideas, goods, and services mainly via markets.
What happens in market economies is that inventors and entrepreneurs -- aka, innovators -- look at problems that people have in the world and apply their unique perspectives and knowledge towards solving those problems. Then they gain feedback about whether or not their solutions are effective and valuable based on whether or not other people (who are free to choose among myriad alternative possibilities) purchase their products/services or not.
It's a little cliched, but let me use the iPod as an example.
Apple looked at a problem: People enjoyed listening to music, but the only portable options at the time (mainly portable CD and cassette players) were bulky, skipped regularly, and were limited to playing a maximum of about 15 songs.
They then used their unique set of knowledge about computer systems and design, and brought in other experts in electrical engineering, software engineering, audio engineering, manufacturing, etc. and got everyone together to produce a product that allowed people to enjoy hundreds of songs in a device that didn't skip and was smaller than anything that had existed before. They paired this device with a first-of-its-kind service that allowed people to download digital versions of individual songs legally at a low cost. They then offered this product to potential users and were rewarded for their bet with substantial sales revenue and profits.
Many other companies were attempting to do something similar around the same time -- Creative, Microsoft, Sandisk, etc. -- but consumers had a choice which music player they selected and predominately chose the iPod as their device of choice. Apple and all the other companies gained feedback from the market on whether or not what they were producing was valuable. No centrally planned system has access to that kind of feedback.
It's possible that someone could have spied on Apple during this process (in fact, I'd bet that many people at other companies absolutely made the attempt), but without the combined knowledge of the specific individuals working at Apple and the vision of Steve Jobs and the iPod team, whatever information they would have been able to capture would not have been useful in the same way.
And that brings me to...
2) Spies can only collect designs or plans, or other knowledge of technology once it's already been developed, and without the feedback mechanisms and the skills/knowledge of the people who developed that technology to begin with, it's highly unlikely that they would ever be able to do that much with the knowledge they collect. This means that inherently any knowledge gained from spy efforts is already out of date. It's an inherently reactive process.
Spies also tend to work for governments, which means that they tend to direct their spying efforts towards only those technologies and bits of information governments think are useful -- in other words, atom bombs instead of iPods. Because there's a highly limited set of knowledge any spy can collect, their mandate tends to be to go out and capture information relevant to national security or military concerns.
They don't -- and can't -- go out there and collect knowledge on every possible area of technology that's currently being developed because that process is being driven by the individual, unique actions of millions of people all at once.
In a decently large market, there may be thousands of people all working on different types of solutions to one problem, and over time, the ones that simultaneously work effectively, are reasonably affordable, and can actually be produced and distributed to the masses succeed while the ones that don't work, aren't affordable, or cannot be efficiently produced fail. No spy can possibly collect information from all those people and without the market feedback they have no way to know which entrepreneur is going to hit on the solution that everybody actually values.
3) This whole theory has played out in the real world dozens of times, and it's only ever produced poorer quality technology.
This whole approach was essentially how the USSR operated for decades. It sent innumerable spies to the United States and capitalist parts of Europe looking for ways to learn from our more advanced technology. They made versions of radios, cars, farm equipment, tanks, and other war machines, and with few exceptions what they came up with was considerably worse than the market alternatives. If you ever want to experience this firsthand, go to Russia and ride in a Trabant. It's not that fun.
And to the other points I made in the video itself, if you look at places like Cuba which were seriously isolated, there's a reason why most of their cars are 60 years old. In isolation, their level of innovation stopped and skill development lagged behind the rest of the world. They have access to all the resources they'd theoretically need to have better technologies, but they don't have the knowledge or skills... Even when they had the entirety of China and the USSR backing them.
The spy theory has been tried. It does not work.
For more on decentralized knowledge, I strongly encourage everyone to read FA Hayek's timeless essay "The Use of Knowledge in Society".
fee.org/articles/the-use-of-knowledge-in-society/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw9NbdBRCwARIsAPLsnFY76ltRi5SItnoonrsf2mlX676S_RzeHSmV8ER7tOiOegqvNRB9m1MaAs4fEALw_wcB
@@felixvasin758 the world is filled with tribes. While internally collaborative to a degree, they also tend to be extremely hostile to other tribes and outsiders, and the rest of this comment largely just ignores the point of the video.
In isolation, small groups of people don't progress... They regress.
They laid it on waaaaaaay too thick with the future technology. In the comics i don't think they portrayed them as being several generations ahead of the rest of the world. More like they were on the cutting edge by stealing tech from the rest of the world and holding monopilistic control over the world's rarest and most valuable resource.
I think they played this down in the movie for obvious reasons. They wanted to portray the Wakandans as developing their tech on their own, not by stealing it and manipulating prices. It's clear that they were trying to make a political point and found the former narrative unsuitable.
Still, it would have been great to learn more about what society is like in this magical untopia. Beyond the throne rooms, ritual combat arenas and secret high tech laboratories, we see very little of wakanda up close.
how about the fact that the vibranium already altered the properties of plants AND ANIMALS(people included) and therefore could be the reason the small population was able to have extremely high innovation in their smaller society.
also theres something missing, wakanda's society it's advance also becose vibranium on the ground enhances any form of life around it, so wakandians are all smarter than normal humans, his animals are stronger and smarter, so it's a society of at least very smart people
culture takes generations to develop, an identity standards etc, poverty is overcome by what role you play in the market and political sphere of the globe, generally those who are the major players tend to be rich, those who are the minor players or new comers tend to be poor, isolationism means you aren't even on the table. a country has to be relevant to be rich,
What makes no sense is that the metal is what makes them rich but they don't export it... So how are they rich? It's like owning a Diamond mine but not selling any diamonds.
There are five tribes that live in wakanda, one tribe farmsand fishes, one tribe trades and travels, and one tribe mines and develops, i imagine they trade with each other for whatever they need, and the movie showed open marketplaces on the streets where people buy stuff.
they use voodoo
@@GoldLove21 Internal trading cannot sustain economic growth of that magnitude, because at the end of the day the country isnt gaining anything, just shuffling around their resources.
Eaxactly. And if they reject all trade with outside world, how do they train their scientists? In the movie it seems like the king's sister is the only scientist. How do you actually advance your country when there is only one science dude?
you mean the kings sister is actually a science dude? thats a plott twist there, but it makes sense. Also this makes their soceity more advanced if the leading scientist is a transwomen.
This really ruined the movie for me
They are rich because of a monopoly on a resource... That they do not sell...? Wtf?
unexpired1 it not true that they don’t sell it. Howard Stark procured some for Captain America’s shield. In the tie-in comic to the first captain America Howard claims he found it near Africa. But many speculate that he made contact with the Wakandan and they sold him some. Also in the film there was a vibrainium pick in the museum. So the metal has founded it s way out in small quantities.
Still, though, a sale of a small quantity of the stuff here and there through the years is not enough to sustain such an advanced society. Unless they're selling it for like 5 trillion dollars an ounce. It just doesn't make much sense not to sell it. If the government refused to sell, there would likely be insurrectionist factions popping up all over the place trying to topple the government for a chance to sell the stuff and become mind-bogglingly wealthy. Just the civil wars alone would keep the nation perpetually destabilized.
@@Aldrnari it is shown that Wakanda has self fulfillment for stuff like food and all other necessities so it doesn't need to trade it's that simple what's not to understand they have advanced fast enough to be able to sell sustain while having a simple primitive lifestyle for normal ppl like shown in the movie
@@veerdhawal24 So they essentially are a post-scarcity economy. Got it. It's just essentially magic, so they don't need money to get stuff.
@@Aldrnari yup they make whatever they need
the thing about dictatorships like Fascism and Communism is that people assume that the organization is going to choose their best and brightest to run the political engine. the truth is people are rewarded for their loyalty to the regime rather than their competence.
China is a meritocratic dictatorship, just saying.
@@niktan606 I think the current pandemic crisis, and how their rulers tried to conceal it as long as possible in order to avoid embarassment (only making it worse in the end, naturally), rather gives the lie to that idea.
Unlike USA where they choose an very literate, intellectual and stable minded person to run the polytical engine. Oh wait...
@@niktan606 no it's not
@@Hardzinho_Yay democracies aren't perfect and we need to be wary of rabble-rousers and of histrionics. However, we must keep in mind that the US is not a direct democracy. Trump's election could have been avoided if the voice of the people had been heard.
It's funny because there is actually a storyline in the comics where vibranium is rendered useless and wakanda suffers so much as a result
You mean when Dr Doom wanted all of it, but T'Challa just flipped th switch
Would make a good "what if" episode
Name
@@lordtabs Doomwar
@@verbalspray3003 thank u
Yeah the movie immediately lost me when they tried to sell a beautiful advanced civilization that chose its rulers by ritual combat.
@Nick Moore I wanna say something, but I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.
@@factfraud9437 say it? Lol
@@ayandak47 I mean, assuming he's not being sarcastic, then I totally agree with him. But I just get sarcastic vibes from this.
@simon nzioki wtf has that got to do about anything? You hate it because it was written by white people?
@simon nzioki so your saying if a white person spoke African you hate it racist
The basic problem is that the movie deviated too far from the comics. In the comics Wakanda:
-Defended its borders from invaders since its inception, providing them with a need for advanced weaponry and an ability to research the tools used by the outside world
-Traded very small quantities of vibranium throughout the centuries, which allowed them the insane wealth to produce its technology while preventing the Vibranium from being weaponized in any meaningful way
-Sent its greatest intellectuals all over the world to learn from other civilizations and thus surpass them
-Only stopped interacting with the outside world during T'Chaka's rule
-Has a very active council that handles most of the tasks of the kingdom. The king can oversee things as he sees fit
-Has a process to becoming the Black Panther and king. Ritual combat is just one of several, including a test of Wakandan law and a blessing from the Panther God. As a caveat, if the king acts in a way that displeases said god, she removes his powers, making him much easier to overthrow
Lol is everyone here on crack or are they forgetting its a comic book movie that shouldn't make sense with real world appliance. Obviously if everyone wants to be so technical and apply our world to Wakanda... a comic book setting... then
Wakanda easily uses satellites and simple methods of using global information out to the public of the world. They are everywhere in the world spying and working. They bring back things they learn and ways to improve the land right... that is how science grows etc. etc. StarWars itself doesn't make a lot of sense. Its all scripted for fans of the genre and meant to be entertaining and not academic nor believable. Have you read the stories... yes children in comics have created some of the most modern tech. Its not supposed to be believable. Its ludicrous to believe any man could create a flying iron suit too.
@@Crucial_4orce THANK YOU!! The only person who makes sense. Also I notice no one made a video about how and why Atlantis is so rich and manage to be so advance let alone gorilla city
Ampocalypse W it’s simple. It’s not a movie for people to break everything down and compare it to real life. It’s just like how Fanboys say Batman beats everything but does he really beat a nuclear weapon shot at him? Or a real life world where it’s easy to find out who Batman is.
@@Crucial_4orce it's super weird how some people take things from a fictional world to only say it doesnt make sense in our world. Its fiction for a reason, it's cool if people want to try and break down the the story or even the metal but to go so far to just try and find flaws in it is a waste of time and energy
Ampocalypse W is the Dark Knight makes sense as many people agree. Why doesn’t Batman put a tracker on Joker? How can he just disappear and appear whenever he wants. Why do people even follow him if they could easily kill him and shoot him in the back? How hard is it to really catch a guy in public with witnesses for terrorizing and blowing stuff up. I mean obviously the materials for all these crimes can be traced to suspects. Batman can be traced and thrown in prison sooner or later. All his gadgets and riches disappear too
Switzerland and Japan are good examples of countries with few natural resources.
And Japan was ass poor while it maintained its Isolation.
@@ElzariusUnity And Today they are super rich
@@reckergamer1879
After losing a war and opening up as an American vassal
@@ElzariusUnity Not necessarily. Although Japan was pre-industrial during the Edo era, it was largely a time of artistic and economic growth. The economy began to coalesce around larger cities, and there was still a fair amount of trade with the Dutch and Portuguese, hence the mutual influence between French impressionism and Ukiyo-e printwork.
Dillon Blair, Japan has outside trade for everybody in the world including the United States because their manga, anime, and video games are insanely popular in the Middle East, the East, and in the West, and Japan’s economy is better now than what it was going through the Feudal/Great Depression Era of Japan.
Also, it’s amazing they managed to learn how to mine the vibranium without tools based on kinetic force. Since the metal reacts violently when it absorbs energy, why did they not think it was cursed when they tried to mine it? The amount of free information given to these tribals is astounding.
Wakanda has been a settled thing since the first Black Panther; depending on the time you want to assume, we're talking about a unified Wakanda that's 300-500 years old by the time the movie comes around (war and the slave trade in the "story of home").
Was it terrifying when shaman Bashenga ate a basically toxic plant to become a supersoldier? Sure, probably.
50 years of using the stuff later? Not so much. 100 years? 200 years? The stuff likely doesn't phase folks who work with it anymore
I mean cant they teach them selves
@@dominicpersaud1155 wasn't one of the points of the video that because of their small population and isolation, it would be highly unlikely for them to be able to teach themselves?
Perfectly encapsulates the "gibsmedat" mentality.
If I remember correctly the whole kinetic thing was created by shuri and the suit wasn't originally like that if you watch civil war u see that the suit isn't doing the whole kinetic energy thing.
The way Wakanda is presented is also morally corrupt. We are expected to believe they have sat there for hundreds of years, more advance scientifically and more wealthy than any nation on Earth, while around them Africa was first colonised by the Europeans and then, more recently, has experienced massive poverty and starvation. Way to go, what a wonderful people. Where were they when Bob Geldoff was begging for our cash to help save lives in Ethiopia?
@Greg Elchert I'm not sure wanting to start some kind of Global race war (Wiki - 'planned to share Wakanda's technology with people of African descent around the world to help them conquer their oppressors' and [Killmonger] 'prepares to distribute shipments of Wakandan weapons to operatives around the world') actually improves Wakanda's moral standing.
One faction selfishly hoarded it's wealth/technology while Africa starved, the other wants to use it to conquer/dominate the World, or at least create Global civil conflict. What a beacon of hope.
Yeah that was the point. That was the whole moral struggle.
@@deskryptic Yes, I realise. But the 'struggle' was between people who (presumably) sat by and watched Africa colonised, sell each other as slaves and then suffer terrible starvation, and the 'bad' guys!
Talk about a the least worst option.
@@petern1938 You don't have to go straight to insults dude. Yeah Wakanda was selfish (like many kingdoms- look at us. We let people die all over the earth. Or maybe its more difficult to help than we think). That's why Killmonger was kinda of right (int he way that evil often is). He showed Wakanda what they were rejecting.
@@petern1938 Uhh.the global race war started along time ago...
I couldn't help but notice the irony of Wakanda portrayed as super advanced, wealthy, uni-racial, isolationist, and guarded by a virtual wall.
And the entire point of the movie (well, one of the main points anyway) was that the isolation is wrong and Wakanda should've helped others and be opened up.
Africans can be just as fascist as everyone else, but a lot of people in here are using that as justification for a black ethnostate
cough cough*china
bill johnson I've lived there for 6 years, trust me, it's not what the news says it is
Like Asgard?
Okoye: "Guns.....so primitive....."
Me: You're literally running around killing people with a stick.
What does Captain America and Hawkeye use?
They've still used fire arms as well, and they never made fun of others for using guns either.
@@michaeldorsey9231 when was the last time you saw Captain America shooting at anyone?
It's been Cap working on his boxing, doing more with his shield, and now navigating his gauntlet shields.
@@scipio2009
Last I can remember, it was Avengers on the helicarrier. I haven't seen Winter Soldier, Age of Ultron, or Civil War in a while though, so he may have used one in any of those films.
@@scipio2009 his first movie he does alot actually
Its a secret ethnostate that doesn’t help its neighbors at all even when it would be really easy to do so?
Sounds like Switzerland.
@@SoloTravelerOffTheBeatenPath Switzerlands neighboors are fine and not starving idiot.
polifatts
Sounds like Israel lol.
@@RedVelvetBlackleather Yes, but Israel has a reason. Mostly, that said neighbors want to, and have indeed tried, to end Israel's existence.
@@aungminthant111 "...accepting refugees... almost destroy Wakanda..." it sounds something Alt-right would say.
The thing that bothers me about black panther is the idea that the warlike Wakandan's only conquered Wakanda and stopped. It is completely unrealistic to think a culture that values strength as much as it does didn't decide to keep going and conquer all of Africa.
I think you should read the comics and if you did reread them because it tells you why
My issue with the film is how fragile it all is. It took one man to turn the entire system on itself and risk evrything. But at the same time saying wakanda is string enough to save the world.
the wakandans did not "conquer wakanda... the 5 tribes agreed to a truce!
@@kuraikenshi2349 welcome to the problems that monarchy brings. Just takes one bad ruler to completely ruin hundreds of years of development.
Daenon Janis it was even because of a ruler but just a flunkie who was close to the king.
The economy wasn’t the unbelievable part for me, the unbelievable part was that a child from the royal family had single-handedly invented all the modern tech in the kingdom. Um, no. It takes teams of scientists to do research and teams of engineers to build what scientists come up with.
Doubt she singlehandedly built all the country's technology, because surely she succeeded someone. Tony Stark more or less plays a similar role at his own company.
Maybe the corporate culture for scientists and engineers over there is such that the head honcho of the operation can take all the credit for all the things done by the organization.
if you thought she did it alone you might be insane. Everywhere she went there were a team of scientist. She just heads them because she is part of the royal family and she is also one of the brightest minds.
Lynette, those flying ships were there when Killmonger was a kid, so Shuri wasnt even born yet. And that is in the movies. Wakanda is been flying for centuries in the comics. You are missing the same point this video is missing, what is so advanced about Wakanda is not the mineral or the technology, is ITS PEOPLE. And they been for thousands of years. Yes, thousands. When humanity became more advanced (Say, societies, states, even countries) Wakanda started fearing that this would led to someone powerful enough to take their vibraniium, so they closed their borders, acted the whole "we are very poor" thing up and thats it.
They have teams of scientists, Shuri was highlighted for the MCU.
Don't forget that in the movie a CIA agent helps overthrow the gov't of an African nation. A little too real! Haha!
Never thought about it like that! Now I've got a new entry to use when my friends and I play "Explain a film poorly"
@Usuário Sarcástico Libya. Country torn in half, economy f*cked up, women now under the veil in one half, and new slave trade there. Afghanistan. Iraq. Syria. You sure about that?
live oak ‘new slave trade’, yeah cus it hasn’t been there for 3000 years. The word barbary literally comes from libya
@Usuário Sarcástico : -- ) thanks for the reply.
@simon nzioki Dude they weren't assasinated only by France. Most of them were assasinated by the US army and CIA. But as you people say "america is a free country". Yeah ask these people.
The Marvel universe also has a large vibranium deposit in Antarctica.
wait what?! - now i have trim my antlers!
@@argon1611 Never heard of the Antarctic vibranium in the Savage Land?
We’re going to Antarctica, boys!
But it's a slightly difrent aloy so it doesnt have the same efect as wakandin vaibrainum
@@demi-fiendoftime3825 Agreed. Wakandan Vibranium absorbs sound. Antarctic Vibranium causes metal to liquefy. It can only be safely transported when packaged in stone containers.
The biggest reason that Wakanda would not be wealthy despite it's valuable resource...is that it does absolutely no TRADE in that resource. HOW did it accrue wealth in a resource it doesn't sell?
1. Have Vibranium
2. ????
3. Wealth !
Umatsu Obossa it has no worth. It developed everything itself. This is what is dumb
Given that Dr. Stark had some vibranium in Captain America: the First Avenger, they probably do trade it, but in small amounts while saying "sorry, that's it, maybe come back next year and we'll have mined more".
The idea is that vibranium has a lot of uses, they don’t need to sell it to put it to use themselves.
Umatsu Obossa Money is just paper/number in a computer, that you use to buy things. If you have a magic material that ignores laws of physics and can be turned into anything, it's more valuable than anything you can buy around the world. Because you can use this magic mat to produce anything you want.
Good to find out that I was not the only one over thinking the economics of the movie.
Suraj Shaw the only thing I thought about was the isolation, cuz I'm not political
Jason tch Yeah... Even I try to stay away politics. But Shemas was talking about the Economy (with a little bit of politics) of the country.
Suraj Shaw actually he talked most about institution which is what is required for an economy to function but less economics
Jason tch True, but it was about economics or how Wakanda's economics does not make sense.
Suraj Shaw due to its institutions , which explains institutions not economics... Just trying to clear out the difference here
For me, a core issue with Wakanda is the fact that it has been content to sit on its resources and simply maintain its borders for centuries, if not millenia.
Because history has shown that such things never happen almost never happen. Especially when a nation has the edge over whoever they are aiming to conquer. There are reasons we have had a fair number of empires throughout history as opposed to mere kingdoms.
If Wakanda were real they would've 100% had a rule that would conquer most of Africa or potentially all of it and Europe/the Middle East with just how insane vibranium is
That was the problem I always had with the concept of Wakanda. If they had all this vibranium, but never actually shared it with anyone, how did they become so wealthy?
Because Vibranium also makes people super-geniuses... duh!
@@ubersham how can u become wealthy with nothing but knowledge they aren't coming out of their small place they won't have any other practical knowledge, also how ever cool u think primitive weapons are guns are the damn improvements over those so actually wakanda is a kind of regressive society
@AbhijeetKunduno
How to make wakanda work:
1: make it so the monarchy was technically abolished generations ago and they are actually ruled by a sort council (the royal advisors from the movie would fit this role best). This not only removes the dictator vibes, but frees up the royal family to more realistically tend to their other interests (being diplomats, scientists, and the black panther) without shirking their royal duties.
2: instead of total isolation, make it to where their trade has always been very limited, thus keeping vibrainium rare, explaining the country’s wealth better, and keeping them up to date on new technologies created outside of wakanda.
3: the royal “election by combat” is only for the title of black panther, and not for rule of the kingdom.
These are just a few things that immediately popped out to me, and of course the movie would have to be changed a bit for certain story beats to work with these changes (like killmonger having to overthrow the council once he becomes the black panther)
I also suggest the possibility of trade/influence from aliens like the Kree.
Foundation for Economic Education great idea! That would really explain why they have all of this weird and advanced tech (force field cloaks, EMP-magnet-balls, and programable black sand displays) better than “oh, the smartest people on the planet have always been wakandans for some reason. In fact, the current smartest person on the planet happens to be the teenage Wakandan princess who makes out of date vine references!”
1: There is a large council for running the country, but the monarchy can dissolve it. Most kings don't do it because handling every aspect of government would be a nightmare, and it could collapse their economy. T'Challa does it on purpose in the comics.
2: That's how it works in the comics.
3: This is "sort of" in the comics. You win the Black Panther title. If you survive eating the herb (which is highly toxic) and receive Bast's blessing, you become king. If Bast doesn't think you're worthy, she kills you.
Basically, everything works in the comics. Coogler screwed up by not including any of it.
What about an elective monarchy to replace ritual combat and a senate?
@@porchofgeese_crockpot would an elective monarchy actually work in real life?
I couldn’t have been the only person who thought that the Vibranium was ridiculously versatile to the point where it was basically a magic McGuffin
Well, Carbon is also ridiculously versatile in the same way.
Jasc Random we can't make super weapons, light bending technology, or force fields out of carbon tho
Weeeeeell... we kinda are getting close to doing that though.
Yea nah
I guess the question is...
*Wakanda place is this?*
I'll see myself out
*GET OUT*
LMA9
Somthing that bugs me is you have this wonder metal okay cool is everything made from it? Like from conductors to plates? Cause even if you have all the magic metal it can't be made into everything you would need.
And how is it able to be so durable, but still workable by almost stone age methods?
@@zacharyrollick6169 Voodooo!!
@@zacharyrollick6169 Like, how did they even mine it? All mining methods they have now involve vibranium, so how ancient tribes with sticks and stones mine it? How did they understood that it was useful? I mean unprocessed vibranium is quite dangerous, so wouldn't they be afraid of giant landmine?
We are talking about a metal that can absorb kinetic energy, then shrink to fit in a necklace and weigh like one. You can make an indestructible-invisible-image- projector-forcefield-wall-dome all around a while city. And you find weird that they make wires out of it?
@@somethingoriginal390 bro they make mesh suits out of that shit, its a superhero movie where a small ball fixed a man's vertebrae stop takking everything so seriously
he didnt even mention how Wakanda got its other resources to build those huge cities. Not everything is made of Vibranium, and considering that they are isolationist leaves a huge mystery as to how they get the other needed technologies such as large amount of steel and the electronics.
I assume it's only indestructible if made to be that way via composition, especially considering how vibranium would've been extracted raw like a lot of metals, also, they can make pickaxes, the thing u use in minecraft that anybody can make
edit - Source: marvelcinematicuniverse.wikia.com/wiki/Vibranium Cpt. America's Shield section
Extremely good point. And what about soft skills like wide technological expertise, command of advanced telecoms and medical / surgical competence? How can they develop them without any contacts with the rest of the world? Black Panther is only good for enetertainment, but its basis are really fragile and nonsensical.
@@marcobiral2883 they built all the stuff themselves so know how they work?
@@marcobiral2883 dude this has been a thing in the real world for years. this dude isn't that bright.
here is my question, how does a highly advance kingdom surrounded by resource rich land filled with far less advance societies not become a oppressive and expanding empire? Especially when its leader has absolute power and is chosen by physical might.
They should have made the romans look like loving care givers in comparison.
That would defeat the point that Black Panther is trying to make. . . . Roman history is full of blood, conquering, and murder and for nothing more than this guy in charge wanted more power.
Wakandan's may be a fictional society? But rather than conquer, they decided to invest in themselves.
I guess what I'm trying to say is : We're not like you, colonizer. :/
Matthew J Canty-Barnes
But they are like us/them, they are human and have the flaws that comes with it.
And let's not forget it was the coastal African kingdoms that forcibly kidnapped the weaker interior people and sold them as slaves to whites for profit.
African nations clearly aren't above subjugating other Africans, despite what the message was.
We are all equally pieces of shit no matter your color. We have all fallen short.
I guess my point is that even though they wanted to present an advanced good natured society, I found it completely un-realistic
Matthew J Canty-Barnes The 'white men' did not create the institution of slavery, they just used it like any other culture, and were simply better at getting others to sell out their people or their enemies people. But the slavery was always there in Africa, even a society similar to Wakanda in Africa like The Mali Empire who had once had 2/3 of the world Gold and incredible amount of salt as their resources is mine by the slave they control. So it is not the white men that introduce the institution of slavery, slavery was just part of almost every culture that once existed. So for Wakanda to not have had slave nor expand is just plain ridiculous and in fact if they had expanded instead of probably just watching the scramble of Africa happen and did nothing to stop people from getting enslaved despite having the power to do so. There would be no need for their King or T'Challa fiancee to stop those human trafficker in the beginning of the movie because if they have such a powerful countries with their Vibranium, then the military would have taken care of the human trafficker with no problem.
The white man did not introduce slavery, and they weren't the first to ship massive amounts of black slaves either. Arabs did that long before Europeans even had proper connections to sub-Saharan Africa.
"Let's not try to blame this on Africans"
I'm not, both whites and Africans were equally responsible. Its like trying to judge who is worse, the guy who beats the prostitutes he buys or the guy who pimps them out. Both are responsible for her getting beaten.
here is how it went down
Europeans: huh look slaves for sell, you know we could use some cheap labor on the colonies... Hey Africa, if you sell us lots of slaves we'll make you rich.
Africans: Okay but we aren't fools, we'll give you slaves in return for the guns that make you so powerful.
Europeans: wait you want to be paid in guns? cool, that's actually cheaper for us.
Africans: wait, what was that?
Europeans: uh nothing.
You just have a very Euro-centric view. Japan and China for a very long time were the most advanced nations and became very isolationist. Not that this is a good thing, but there you go. Wealth and power does not mean you want to conquer everything.
"isolationist", but its cities look like any other globalism-homogenized modern cities. we've got our guggenheim sculptures and commissioned office buildings, they've got theirs
I mean to be fair it’s set in a world where norse mythology is real, A billionaire flies around in a super advanced suit, a super soldier from WW2 frozen in ice exists, a guy with a bow and arrow can do more than Special forces, Wizards that control time and pretty much every Friday aliens invade earth
Yeah but all that stuff is excusable for it's implausibly because the moral lessons that the writers are trying to make outweigh the weight of the surrealism.
Wakanda doesn't deserve such a pass, because ultimately Wakanda is an utterly barbaric nation where the Monarchy has no constitution save for one that recognises violence as acceptable means to acquiring a throne to simply whoever is violently skilled enough, and the monarch can order the people to do whatever the hell is wanted no matter how much death and destruction is wrought on innocent people.
Where's the valuable moral lesson in that? T'Challa himself is a good man, but the system of government of Wakanda and the willful refusal of its people to have the spine to say "no" to it's leaders when they're monsters, unlike Asgard, is really the makings of a barbaric nation.
Is that what kids should be taught in schools? That dictatorships based on violence are better than democracies?
Sorry, but I'm one of the three people who never saw the movie or comics, and I have no idea how the economy works. So, am I just misunderstanding this, but... vibranium is a metal that only exists in wakanda. But it's plentiful there. And because it is plentiful, they are rich. But, that doesn't make sense, because if it is plentiful, wouldn't it be super cheap? Since they don't trade it, they can't make huge bank off having a monopoly on the only suppy, so they would just trade among themselves. That would make it super cheap though?? They don't have a monopoly, and it's plentiful, so why would it be worth much?
That’s probably how it would happen,like when the Spanish started bringing loads of silver in and it made the silver worth very little
I assume there's no local demand from the peasentry but a lot of demand from wealthy international corporations.
Supply and demand and all that -- so due to a low supply and high demand, high prize.
Diamonds are only expensive because of artificially low supply, and it'd the same with vobranium imports. They restrict the market since they have a monopoly to get more money.
Vibranium would still be valuable because its basically super magic. It does EVERYTHING. Their wealth makes sense if you consider the reality that vibranium basically can become anything and do it better than anything else. Its like atomic engineering. Any nation that finds a way to create new materials by printing them atomically would immediately be capable of total independence for actual resources. It would be IDEAS that they would be missing out on at that point. We only consider the things we own materially as wealth because it costs something to make them. If you can produce an infinite amount of them, no matter what they are, instantly, you create a new society with a new economic structure than any that actually currently exists.
In such a society they may not even have to charge money or labor for anything and everyone just works voluntarily if at all. Even though it costs them nothing to make anything, to any society where things do cost such a nation would appear as the epitome of wealth.
That's actually how the vibranium market works in the comics; Wakanda controls the only readily available stock of the material (while keeping the true extent of their own technological advancement largely to themselves) and only periodically sells off small quantities to foreign entities they [limitedly] trust not to turn said resources against them. They then use the money to fund their own infrastructure and send their noble class children out into the world for schooling in the hopes that they come back to further develop the country. The movie version doesn't seem to do that, at least not explicitly, although it is hinted at in other movies that there has been some measure of vibranium trade between Wakandans and other Africans and possibly even the U.S. government (or at least, someone who ended up getting Captain America the vibranium for his shield during WWII).
This video kinda reminds of Mansa Musa.
In 1312 C.E Mansa Musa became the emperor of the Mali empire in West Africa. Mali was a very powerful empire; it was very big, had a great army, but most importantly, it had good trade routes. During that period, the Mali Empire flourished thanks to ample natural resources like gold and salt. Back then, salt was very important to preserve food, making it tremendously valuable. Mali happened to control the largest supply of salt in the world and, because of such amazing trade routes, Mansa Musa accumulated so much wealth that some estimates would say it would be worth a modern total of about $400 billion.
A devout Muslim in a majority Muslim community, Musa set off on a journey to Mecca for his Hajj pilgrimage. The voyage, which would span an estimated 4,000 miles, was travelled by Musa and a caravan that included tens of thousands of soldiers, slaves and heralds, draped in Persian silk and carrying golden staffs. According to texts from the ancient historian Shihab al-Umari, when Musa arrived in Cairo, Egypt, he was greeted by a subordinate of al-Nasir, who invited him to meet with the fellow monarch. Musa declined the proposition, claiming that he was only passing through on his pilgrimage to Mecca. Following a conversation between the two men, al-Nasir offered lodging to Musa and everyone accompanying him, and Musa, in turn, left a piece of his incomprehensible wealth in Egypt.
From the markets of Cairo to royal offices to the impoverished people that crossed his path in Egypt, Musa’s generosity and purchase of foreign goods left the streets littered with gold-a resource that was greatly appreciated and in short supply. The people were thrilled-at least at first. Though well-intentioned, by spending all of that gold, gold was suddenly devalued to near worthlessness for the Mediterranean and Middle-Eastern area. Prices of other goods also inflated, for some places gold remained devalued for as long as 10 years.
Mansa Musa is the only human in history to single-handedly devalue gold.
EmperorTigerstar
has a great short video on him.
Weird that you forget to mention that his caravan also included 12.000 slaves and a big part of his wealth was due to the Slave Trade with the Islamic countries.
@@bellcross9985 "The voyage, which would span an estimated 4,000 miles, was travelled by Musa and a caravan that included tens of thousands of soldiers, slaves and heralds, draped in Persian silk and carrying golden staffs. "
I did mention them, just very briefly.
@@bellcross9985 He mentioned the slaves that travel with the caravans
I once read that the Spanish also gorged themselves on South American gold that it almost bankrupt Spain.
What r u trying to say?
finally a well respected video that deals why wakanda cant exist is due to the conception on not based on the people's skin color
Its fiction omg smh it was never real to begin with
@@ampocalypsew3883 think you missed my point of the rant
Wakanda is not based on skin color idiot. It's based off of heritage, learn the difference idiot.
@@booneboone9705 its the same
@@booneboone9705 WE WUZ
I am from Venezuela and those examples using Venezuelan situation cannot be more spotted on. Excellent work
I knew Wakanda didn’t feel right. It was a very unbelievable utopia. Somehow I’m supposed to believe that this nation is so beautiful and wonderful and advanced and everyone is happy af and gets along BUT btw rulers are chosen via barbaric death matches and nobody else knows this utopia exists.
InterstellarCat not everyone got along as explained in the movie over time relations got better
The Other movies seem to contradict the whole isolation and hidden tech message in the Black Panther movie. In Civil War the Black Panther shows up in a High tech suit no one bats an eye that a poor country can field even one of these suits and later that Cap is not phased at all about what he sees when freezing Bucky. And lastly Avengers Age of Ultron hints there is some trade in Vibranium but limited which is why there is smuggling of vibranium.
Mr Manceres why would be honestly be surprised at anything at this point especially the avengers Steve has fought aliens along side a god , and a big green monster after being frozen for like a100 years
Kilaw Leunam Yes but Aliens and Gods are not of Earth so you just roll with it. But here was have him in Wakanda a country that is known to the entire world as a dirt poor country with no industry and hes not even going " So I have a question or two".
Tony stark created a new element, people made a serum that makes a buffed up bro. Why get hung on this one. Not to mention Hulk, Strange's magic, Spider man probably being the strongest being on the planet etc.
Vibranium is a broken plot device that can basically do anything the writers say it can. Just like many other marvel plot device objects
Puff'n Stuff just like most stories and movies*
TheSlimmshadyy not really, it's just lazy writing to make something interesting.
but the same could also be said if they used Steel.
the properties of vibranium are not vague... they are very well detailed and while we don't know some basic metalurgic facts like melting point and conductivity, we do know all of it's "mystery" properties.
Vibranium absorbs and attracts energy. everything from the kinetic energy of bullets being attracted to it like a magnet to the sound waves caused by nuclear bombs. it dissipates this energy throughout its molecular bonding so to much energy can cause the bonds to break down and the bonds to release and the wrong types of energy can cause a "wrong" vibration within the vibranium giving it cancer.
this gives it it's "bulletproof" ability. it doesn't really matter the suit he's wearing is 1 nanometer or 1 kilometer thick.... if the bullet doesn't have any energy it isn't moving. though obviously thinner mesh means it requires less force to break but that's not really the issue here.
Vibraniums ability to absorbs and attract energy make it good at both defending against and enhancing magical abilities, it is also a powerful mutagenic... the reason the citizens of wakanda are so smart isn't because "they have magic metal that can do anything" but because "the magic metal evolved them into superior humans" this is true about a lot of wakanda's fana.... their plants don't just have some medicinal properties, they can cure cancers, the heart shaped fruit literally gives you magic powers just by consuming it once. eating the flesh of a wakandan gorilla does exactly the same thing as the heart shaped fruit but in exchange for some of your intelligence just gives you more of that juju. (man-ape, a villan who is basicly just a bigger stronger black panther who wears a white gorilla body suit)
but this forced evolution and mutation of the wakanda people makes them not quite humans, while they are closer to modern man than they are to inhumans or mutants, they are different enough that the children of wakanda by the age of 11 are smarter than normal humans nearly double that.... just look at nakia who is 14 with multiple PHDs and while she is a prodigy she isn't a sole exception. (also fun fact she's a villian in the comics) but this enhanced mental capacity allowed them to progress their technology leaps and bounds.
The Spinal surgery comes in here because they could have used plastic of iron or anything to do this. fuck, IRL we use stem cells and while we aren't efficient with it yet, we have progressed from no clue to being able to regrow axons within the last few years. The same with sending the car, it's a self driving car that builds itself using nano tech.... we have that IRL right now.... not nearly that controlled, accurate, or powerful... but we still have that.
P.S. while wakanda is an isolationist country on earth.... the forced evolution of the citizens and leaps in science led wakanda to space hundreds of years ago. they had a thriving intergalactic empire and active trade with hundreds if not more alien worlds. they just did the whole "no technology to lesser species" thing... to their own species.
They're still vague.
They are defined but not to the extent that it is possible to nail down what the limits are for its properties.
Store and release energy could apply to literally fucking everything, which is why they use vibranium for literally fucking everything. Magic shouldn't even apply to it but it does because the writers dont give a damn. Vibranium does whatever the hell the writers need it to do.
Wakanda has no major material resource other than Vibranium. They shouldnt' even know what space is because they would have never developed the telescope or bothered to ponder what it would be like if the Sun wasnt just a big lamp hanging on a glass dome. That "mutation by vibranium" bullshit doesnt even make any goddamn sense with the property you stated. What, does the stuff store and emit magical "x-men mutant rays"?They shouldn't know what a car is or how it works, or the concept of nanotechnology or anything because they never went outside. Sending ships in to space requires complicated computer programming, something Wakandans could have never accomplished since they dont seem to have any sources of the materials needed to create transistors or any other component needed to build a computer more advanced than an abacus. Except they can, because Vibranium can supplement for literally every element on the planet. Nuclear reactors? Vibranium. Semiconductors? Vibranium. Everything can be made from vibranium because lol plot device.
You can't say the same with steel because we know exactly what steel does and what it doesnt. Steel doesnt magically evolve humans or make for good body armor.
Nobody knows what Vibranium doesn't do because it's deliberately set up that way so that Marvel can milk it for all its worth. The heart shaped fruit makes literally no sense biologically, physically, or even theoretically within the bounds of Vibranium's "stated" properties, it does what it does because the writers wanted it to.
Puff'n Stuff isn't batman a plot device?
Couldn't stop laughing every time when the caption spelled Wakanda as "what condom"!
You left something out and I don’t know if that was on purpose or just an oversight. Bast. The Wakandan black panther deity. Whenever I go looking into Wakanda from a comic books and mixed media perspective, looking at the entire Marvel universe, consistently, and I mean consistently it is pointed out that Wakanda is a spiritual kingdom that is upheld not simply because of possession of vibranium, but by its devotion to the large black panther statue and the deity it represents. Vibranium is considered to be a secondary result of the first status, The connection covenant with Bast.
It’s for that reason that they hold out when everyone else fails. In a way it’s a fictional typification of Israel. Whatever corrupt people who would destroy the fortunes of Wakanda or take it over, they are always people who are rejecting the old way, not the old ways, the old way which is devotion to the panther. It was based on an ancient covenant with this panther that the tribe was founded that they would never be defeated and they would always be well run. The vibranium was only considered to be a secondary benefit of that positive relationship. Whenever bad guys get ahold of the metal, the black panther must call on his spiritual connection to give him the upper hand to get it back.
While I agree with you and king Tchalla of Fiction that isolation from others is not positive, it’s not logical to try to explain the plot line and account for all this positivity and blessing that’s pouring through the country, and criticize it as bad writing. To criticize it as bad writing because there’s no way that a mere physical resource can account for the culture and nation of the Wakandans is misrepresenting the story itself. You’re right: of course the physical can’t cause this.
Of course it cannot. The story does not present it to be that way. The story is always making a point or at least making a mention of the fact that all the positivity is a result of a spiritual basis.
Of course a physical resource can’t account for all of this extra stuff going on. It’s not meant to. It was never presented that way in the stories; it’s being presented as a spiritual result of the nation choosing the black panther deity, Bast.
Including the movie, I have never seen a rendition of Wakanda that does not mention it. Therefore I think it is illogical and unfair to criticize the writing of Marvel while excluding the central pillar of this particular storyline.
Thank you!
But everything u say dies with vibranium. Since it was the vibranium and not bast that created the heart shaped herb. This suggests they arent bein protected by a deity
I have a hard time suspending disbelief in many movies but this one was my hardest. There were some good messages, but .... just say its Hollywood... we are a peaceful nation but our kings are chosen by mortal combat. We dont have guns in Wakanda but we have wrist cannons... please.
Shawn Vargas exactly. I had a hard time ignoring so much too. Not to mention the fact that vibranium stuff is told about as "technological" but its actually just plain magic, physically impossible (just like Iron Man's new suit on infinity war, by the way)
Most of marvels movies make no sense
*superheroes movies
Kilaw Leunam somewhat but they are superhero movies they are fantasy
Captain Raz no iron mans new suit makes sense
Well this movie isn't Spice and Wolf. I wasn't surprised that there were flaws in their economic system and how their country works as a whole.
you
Holy shit, you are the OG justin :O
just saw u on captain disillusion
Justin, y u everywhere?
Do you use bots?
Here is the way I have always seen it:
The vibranium meteor not only imbued the land and plant life with all kinds of fabulous properties but also enhanced the locals intelligence and physical stats which allowed them to develop extremely fast.
And yet they choose their leaders with ritual mortal combat? How does physical prowess serve as a measure of being a competent leader? You would think that a highly intelligent population would immediately see the problem with that system.
We don't see that in the movie, though.
To me what's most unrealistic about Wakanda is its ability to remain isolated for so long. It portrayed itself as one of the poorest countries on Earth, but was heavily forested, has navigable rivers, and apparently never colonized by European powers? Just, how?
Wakanda used their Vibranium science and technology to hide how big the country is.
As venezuelan can confirm, this sucks.
@The Liberal Capitalist Philippines is Eastern European countries?
@1984 is not a handbook Do you know what this channel is? Being anti socialism is LITERALLY their entire shtick! In this video they explained that letting the state seize the means of production will hurt the country in the long run, and that's one of the main principles of socialism! Its like saying "don't listen to this guy who says Hitler was bad because he was a white supremacist, he was bad because he was a Nazi!!! "
@@it5351 well? Make me confused buddy
@@it5351 Socialism is evil.
@Revolutionary Communist no fucking way you're comparing Slovenia with Venezuela, lol.
Guys, ignore this troll pls, he's just kidding.
I had a really hard time suspending my disbelief about Wakanda and it's society, so much so that it seriously undermined my ability to enjoy the movie.
Everything about Wakanda is ludicrous.
Yes but all the white fictional movies TOTALLY make sense right? 🤡😡 Star Trek, Lord of the Rings, Star Wars etc are BRILLIANT!
@@blackgirlsrock264"Yes but all the white fictional movies TOTALLY make sense right?" No, not at all, NONE of them make sense.
All the same, LoTR is set in a mythical universe where the rules of the real world don't apply (there's magic and talking birds for goodness sake), and Star Wars and Star Trek are set thousands of years in the future, by which time, it is presupposed, that slow advances made by the whole human race, as well as contact with aliens, has brought about the technological societies portrayed in their storylines. It's fiction and we suspend disbelief. As we do with all such stories.
However, the premise for Wakanda, is that a lone tribe in an isolated valley in the middle of present-day Africa, go (almost overnight) from a primitive to a highly advanced culture, merely because some metal happened to fall out of the sky. This metal apparently enabled them to make, single handedly and with no outside influence, all the technological, scientific, and medical discoveries known to man. And then some. They also became Rich. This, even though they don't trade with the outside world in either vibranium or manufactured goods. Where does the wealth come from?
And please, don't play the race card. Skin colour has nothing to do with it.
@@blackgirlsrock264 no, but the expanse is cool tho, Avatar too, the story sucked tho
@@alaric_3015 nah you just hate it because it’s in africa and blacks live there
love you. No pretentiousness in your voice, yet you speak at just the right tempo for anyone to understand
others talk pretentiously slow (you can hear it in their tone), or pretentiously fast
One thing that was expressed in wakanda as a byproduct of isolationism had to do with basic seige warfare involving combat engineers... sappers .... miners if you will. Something dating back to at least as early as the ancient greek era. A tactic that the amazing wakanda genius Shuri never even considered, yet she's the head of technological advancements which directly relate to the defense of wakanda in the form of the energy shield surrounding the nation.
But somehow, at a glance, she is familiar with the technology employed by stark, banner, jarvis, and ultron, which was used or developed by no one else on earth, and knew how to do it "better" in an instant in a one liner that felt entirely out of place in the infinity war movie.
Shawn M that’s the power of leftist plot armor
Why get political...
Ledabot because the left made it so
#Shawn M
That's the global Zionist's agenda pushed by SJW zombies and the child rapist elites in Hollywood.
Introducing a new teenage character that is smarter than Banner and Stark is political.
How did a tribal people originally work the vibranium when they barely had metal technology at the time? How did they keep the colonial powers out or are we to believe they had forcefields even back then? If so are we to believe that this tribal society who fights combats to the death to select a leader was for some reason benevolent towards its primitive neighbours. Or not really benevolent as it let the European powers invade and take them over.
Huge plot holes in its existence. Then again, the whole Tony Stark story is full of plot holes. His technology has huge medical potential but he flicks from weapons manufacture to freedom fighter while he could save more lives by investing in medical devices. He also seems to be the only one with access to the nano tech he uses and this is probably the biggest issue with these superheroes.
The rest of society is ignored as far as technology goes, only the good or bad guys have this stuff. The bad guys get away with so much because the military and law enforcement are never given advanced tech to match them, it's always left to organisations like SHIELD or the Avengers while the traditional defenders of society are left behind in a comparative stone age.
Catubrannos Good point about the metallurgy. Working vibranium would have a massive learning curve to it. They'd progress in a primitive tribal society for awhile and even then, working the vibranium wouldn't fuel their science, just their resources. The 20th century took a large part of the world to make yet we're expected to believe a slice of Africa did much more in less time?
IDK how did anyone ever learn to develop any resource ever? Maybe EXPERIMENTING with it? It’s easy to do when you aren’t caught up in wars. And between the unification of 4 large tribes I’m sure they could have figured out how to defend themselves during the early days of having vibranium centuries-millennia ago
@Luke Drinking from Alien Titty yes this is it, it must be because theyre racist! not like there were a lot of chinese historically speaking (which werent some bunch of literal primitive tribes) and that they traded with the europeans or either. To say the enlightenment couldnt come out of some tribe in the congo is wrongthink!
The trick is to figure it out before you are discovered by someone with superior technology to you and conquers you, taking the vibranium. Once you figure it out, YOU are technologically superior and can repel puny outsiders trying to steal it.
As for the governments having access to Tony Stark's stuff.. maybe Stark feels that if he gives everyone his tech, they will use it to kill their enemies and accidentally destroy the world in the process. That's a very common issue brought up in Scifi when a technologically superior alien/faction encounters primitives. They don't want to give their technology because the primitives would kill themselves with it through sheer stupidity and selfishness.
Historically tribal people developed metallurgy for three reasons: 1) to develop new weapons for war 2) to create art or articles of beauty for their oppressive King 3) to use in farming/ agriculture. If they didn't have wars, an oppressive king and/or a large population that needed a ton load of food then they wouldn't have thought of harnessing the power of vibranium.
From the movie, the King wasn't that oppressive, in the sense that he didn't have absolute power and dominion over his citizens. Wakandans were still allowed a certain level of freedom, except that they couldn't leave. This is oppressive. Yes, but most wouldn't want to leave because they don't know what is out there and they believe the King, whose lineage produces the black panther, looks out for their best interest. In an oppressive kingship, People would be tried for treason or simply be beheaded by his command. His word is the law and the only way to challenge his authority is through a civil war. Wakanda doesn't have this....Though I don't know if they had something similar historically.
Secondly, Wakanda doesn't fight with outside forces. There's always that "us vs them" mentality in pre-modern kingdoms. Ghengis Khan didn't even need a reason to go to war with the rest of the world. No great nation succeeded without constant warfare. The 5 tribes of Wakanda called a truce way too early. They would've fought themselves all the way to the late 19th century to develop to that level of technology because civilization and warfare are inextricably connected.
And finally, due to the specialization that arises from having a monarchy with a standby army ever ready to die at the King's commands... Some people can be farmers and of course, the soldiers (large army) and royal court would need plenty of food. This gives way to the development of agricultural systems and inventive modes of plant cultivation. At that early stage, a class system is formed and the farming class would toil day and night to meet certain quotas. A farmine would mean planters being put to death so naturally they would look for ways of making sure that never happens.
I know all of this sounds sinister but look at all civilizations... That's how it has ever happened.
People know Isolation leads to Insanity but the idea of a country that has that capability to be as such is extremely amazing.
"Guns. Such a privative weapon." *Proceeds to throw spear*
I did enjoy the movie, let me say that first. What I found interesting was that they wanted to use their technology to fight colonizers around the world rather than just start by feeding the billions of their starving neighbors or bringing in clean drinking water, or maybe work on ending AIDS in Africa.
Richard Scroggins Especially when the actual colonizers are long dead and they’d only take their rage out on innocents.
No, that was Killmonger who wanted to use the technology to fight the "colonizers". Nakia seem to be the only one who cared about helping the Africans.
The majority of Africa is a complete shit show but Wakanda and its dictatorial ruling family is more concerned about hiding away with their wealth than doing anything to help.
Shuri & other Wakandan Scientists should do some research how to destroy the damn dangerous diseases in Africa like AIDS, ebola, etc instead of isolating themselves
Derp Herpington II There no such thing as innocent whites, you people never really ended colonization. You made us pay back to get decolonized then killed African leader like Lumumba and Sankara. Then you funded brutal dictators and coups around the continent. You bribe corrupt politician, sell weapons, pollute etc
This is more or less what I've been saying. Wakanda could either be a super advanced trade city (like Singapore on vibranium steroids ), or completely isolated to the point of being a myth. YOU CAN'T DO BOTH!
Heck, they could of had it where the Vibranium forced them into isolation because it vibrated them out into another dimension that others couldn't reach and they couldn't leave. Hundred/thousands of years later they finally find a way to bring their civilization back into the real world and the story could revolve around them getting adjusted to the changes around them.
Then the idea of keeping those tribal designs could of made more sense because within those hundred/thousands of years they were more focused on figured a way back to Earth using the technology they had rather than just isolating themselves just cause. . . though. . . I have to admit there is a funny irony to a black culture isolating themselves from the rest of the world when Americans who are accused of having such thoughts are called "White Supremacist".
But we wuz kangz
They had spies on the outside world in prettyuvh any country where black people are common. That's how they learned shit.
if they hadn't stayed hidden they would have been 'bought to Christ' or 'given democracy' depending on what justification for invading them and taking their stuff was in vogue at the time.
Wakanda WAS black nationalist, T'Challa realizes this during the film.
I love how you add subtitles at your videos. I don't speak english and subtitled vides like yours helps me to learn. Great work!!!
I just found one of my favorite channels, good job
This also occurred to me, I've always thought, "how exactly are they rich if they aren't selling anything to the outside world?"
What occurred to me was how can a metal like Vibranium have so many amazing properties, but still be harness able by stone age methods.
They sold but not huge amounts which ain't a problemas since 1 gram cost 10k
In my country, Indonesia, there is a city similar to Wakanda, its name is Saranjana. An ordinary person would see the city up close as just rocks, trees, and forest. In fact, if we can pass through the magical wall, we can see sophisticated city views, luxury cars, flying cars, highways, tall buildings, luxurious houses, golden stairs, etc. Saranjana residents can reach hundreds of years old. In fact, some of the residents used to go out of college to watch human music band concerts in big cities. Saranjana is located in the province of South Kalimantan (Borneo), in the Kotabaru area, Banjar, Indonesia. Residents of Saranjana, all of their fingers are the same length and don't have a split above their lips. When they go to the human realm by riding a vehicle (motorcycle), ordinary people only hear the sound of their vehicle. Try to bring up the story of this Saranjana in your country, who knows the world can make it into a kind of film entitled "Saranjana, the real Wakanda". Thanks.
Wakanda needs some diversity. 😉
No it isn’t America keep your ideas somewhere else
The Worst part, despite the Suspension of Disbelief regarding Wakanda, is the Insane thought process of Black Panther's ex (Nakia) and Killmonger.
Taking in All the Refugees of the World, or giving away advanced technology to their Neighbors (most of whom are insane warlords) is the height of Stupidity.
And yes, despite being killed, Black panther ends up doing what Killmonger wanted Anyway. So in the end, the bad guy wins.
Rensune just more of the globalist mindset that Hollywood shoves into many of its movies.
There's such a thing as too much international connection which can result in countries becoming too reliant on each other thus causing the entire economy of all of the countries involved to collapse if one major country involved collapses. As FEE said in the video, countries need a large diversity of industries to remain stable but still require trade to remain economically and technologically competent. Too much on either side of the spectrum, isolationism, or globalism, is bad for countries.
In addition, as you said, this globalist mentality of just handing technology out to neighboring countries, whether their good or not, is the dumbest possible thing a country can do.
One: it significantly reduces the country's value to the rest of the world as instead of that country being a large producer of trade items, now neighbors can become much more independent of trade with that country. Then again this can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on exact context and again refers back to the balance of isolationism and globalism i mentioned above.
Two: as you also said. Neighbor countries, except perhaps in extremely specific cases cannot be trusted with technology/goods that can better allow them to wage war. Technology spread should happen naturally through trade thus allowing all countries to somewhat keep up and thus keep each other in check.
Erwin Rommel problem with that is that people (most likely politicians) inside the country selling the metal will get ahold of the metal and sell it for increasing lower prices on the black market to the countries that want it.
So unless wakanda could crack down ridiculously well on corruption and illegal selling of the metal, which would be very difficult if it is politicians selling the metal, this strategy would not work very well.
However it would definitely work alot better for technology associated with the metal. The only reason most third world countries today have tanks is because the soviet union collapsed and much of its military equipment was sold to these countries by whoever got their hands on the equipment.
of Killmonger did that Infinity War would be so crazy
MasterChef117 Wakanda seems to be stuck in a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” situation then.
To be fair Killmonger wanted to use their weapons to rule the world, T'Challa simply wants to trade.
This is actually a good video because the film doesn’t tell or even show us how they actually figured out how to use vibranium like they do. Like congrats you have this resource that CAN do all this stuff but how exactly did this society learn HOW to make it do all this stuff?
It’s like gunpowder being used and improved later on the make guns and other siege weapons. New things came about when trade was opened to the world.
You’re right. The Chinese knew about gunpowder and used it for centuries prior to Middle Easterns and Europeans even finding out about it. But due to the Silk Road one of the first uses of gunpowder the Ottoman Turks came up with was to use it to blast rocks at Constantinople’s walls. Thus inventing canons where the Chinese had only used gunpowder for fireworks and explosive tipped spears prior.
Trade opens up resources to new minds, and allows those new minds to create. Later, Europeans condensed gunpowder into even smaller barrels and created the first muskets.
Japanese tea culture, as well as many other of their cultural innovations and changes only came about after Europeans came knocking on their door. Now they have, in some ways, created even more technological advancements in certain areas than the West. See bullet trains, and Japanese Robotics.
Leader_Of _Datlof
Also, why hide at all when they had the best tech to begin with?! They had the advantage over steel!
Kirby and Lee really crapped out a barrel full of Maguffins when they thought this one up. It was always meant as a feel good, friendly race relations comic above all other considerations, but economically, it is as nonsensical as the existence of a creature like Godzilla. No thought was put into what would make it tick, it really was just a monstrous “God of Chaos”, nothing more needed then that.
Elder Millennial It would’ve made way more sense had the meteorite hit during a more modern age and THEN they decided to hide it. But considering that the lore is that it’s been there since ancient times, it just doesn’t make sense. I also feel like it’d be kinda insulting to people that the most advanced African society still uses tribal governments and spears and lip rings? What are they trying to say with that?
the VID is an excellent critique and one thing it has in common with all of the Comic Genre is that none of them make sense. They are escapes from the mess that people are making of what we have. One of the reasons for this mess is also the common PROGRESSIVE MYTH that wealth depends on natural resources or stolen resources, and neither are true. Resources have existed undeveloped for millennia but it is only the freeing of men's minds and ownership of their productivity that creates wealth from it.
Dean Hyatt
That technically goes without saying, except the trend has been to at least minimize the most glaring plot holes from the old comics and make what they can’t quite eliminate feel so natural that only a first class pedant who never enjoys anything would still complain.
From a story telling perspective, they had no choice but to make Wakanda isolationist. If they did trade with the outside world, the MCU would look entirely different from the world we know so it would completely screw up all the other movies.
I've only recently discovered your videos. It started with the one on Captain Marvel and then I saw ones with other interesting subjects and I just kept clicking. And I've just gotta say, I don't regret watching a single one of them. The content in them is fascinating and very well presented and, perhaps most importantly, portrayed in a way that grabs the viewers attention and doesn't let go. You deserve SO many more views and subscribers than what you've got.
The king and the Black Panther should be 2 different people. The leader should be the oldest living relative of the guy that united all the tribes in the first place. The person who becomes the BP should be the best warrior in Wakanda and that person gets the powers, the suit, and becomes both the leader of the military and the personal body guard to the king. That way what happened in the movie wouldn't have been a problem.
This of course goes into the very simple problem of if you have all the power why do you serve the king? Why not just kill him and be king? Hence the King is the Strongest Warrior is more logical.
LegendaryDreamslayer
Not really. Because even if you kill the king you still wouldn't have royal blood and you just committed high treason against the crown so even with all the powers and abilities of the BP good luck fighting off all of Wakanda and its' defenses. The BP is cool and all but he's no Superman. 😂
You've clearly never read the history of the Praetorian Guard. For centuries they were key to determining who was Emperor and in several cases they directly assassinated the current emperor to put in place one they believed was more beneficial to themselves. Although they didn't directly lead they wielded enormous power for a very long time. And these were normal humans with no magical god superpowers. Someone with the power of the black panther would have NO problem completely taking over the country, even if he had to manually kill the entire army to do so.
LegendaryDreamslayer
You clearly don't know how powerful the BP is if you think he can single handedly take on the whole Wakandan military. Violent coups didn't work so well for Kill Monger and he actually had a point and a bad system to work with. What makes you think it'll work any better in my system? GTFOH! 😂
Greg Elchert
It would be kinda hard to do that now sense they don't seem to know who the original BP even was let alone his descendants. The ruler should be the oldest living relative of the OG BP and the current BP should be the best warrior in the country. Every year the title of BP would be up for grabs and the current BP would have defend their title. A descendant *can be* the current BP or the ruler, but they can't be both.
Wakanda joke is this?
WE
WUZ
KANGZ
SHIEEEEEEEEEEET
I hate you
We are talking about a comic book , imaginary world aren't we? I mean, people fly here, shoot beams out their eyes, turn mean and green, throw a shield and bank it off objects better than Minnesota Fats, surf the cosmic winds as well as wear air conditioned suits of armor, but it's hard to believe that an all African run nation could be run in harmony in the same make believe world? Looks like Stan and Jack should have studied humanity and science a little closer.
I always just wondered how they decided who had to live in the huts in pretend Wakanda. Do they rotate people through periodically? If you’ve got people like National Geographic coming through to take pictures of the isolated and poor nation then I would imagine there are people in the hut village at all times. And you’d have to have kids there too because it would be really odd to have no children in your country. Can you imagine having to live in the huts when you know your super advanced society is just a little ways away? I can’t imagine they’re allowed to have advanced technology in the huts because, again, if National Geographic shows up and discovers them that is going to raise some serious questions. Admittedly I haven’t read the comics so it might have been covered in those but it just bugged me the whole movie.
And they've been super advanced for millennia, yet they stayed in their cut off city while thousands of people in West Africa were deported in the slave trade, and tons of wars happened. It's not very believable
Hmmm....yeah, Wakanda would have maybe made more sense if they were secretly trading with other species in the galaxy or something. They could have decided they wanted the entire planet to essentially be isolated (in addition to isolating themselves from the rest of the planet). They could have sent out cloaked cargo ships offworld this whole time without anyone knowing. This way they get to keep their isolation and still trade with the outside world(galaxy)
More believable, we are talking about a man who only uses his shield which defies the laws of physics, a man using a very primitive bow and arrow, and a guy who build a suit out of scraps. Heck how about you ask why was Altantis so rich and advance or why the fuck is Gotham so damn corrupted, or better yet why are the the people in Metropolis so retarded that they can't tell superman is clerk Kent, just saying
@@ampocalypsew3883 1: Captain America is superhuman.
2: Hawkeye is incredibly well trained.
3: The people who kidnapped Tony Stark gave him enough material to build an arc reactor, and Tony is a super genius.
4: Atlantis is also fictional, and has the same issues as Wakanda in the DC Universe.
5: Kayfabe. The villains know that Superman is still Superman when he's Clark Kent, so they never bother attacking him when he's out of costume. That's also why Batman DOES sometimes get attacked at home. It's an in universe "Kayfabe", where people just ignore it too, as anyone who realizes the similarity either figures out that Superman needs a disguise, or dismisses it. The animated series makes the similarity obvious, but there are scenes in the live action movies with Christopher Reeve that show how acting talent/skill can mask physical ability behind an outward appearance of ineptitude or weakness.
Also... yes. Defying the laws of economics and centuries old observations about the fall of various civilizations/countries IS less believable than superheroes, in the context of a superhero movie. "You will believe a man can fly... but you won't believe that he can create diamonds from coal without collapsing the diamond market."
@@hariman7727 1. Black Panther is favored by god and is granted a heart shape herb that gives him superhuman abilities
2. The nation is isolated and super advanced due to an alien metal that can do anything, the only weakness is their imagination
3. Wonder Woman was also isolated yet no one said shit about that, but like to complain on how Wakanda can maintain an economy.
4. Yes Atlantis has the same issues yet no one complained about it, only bring up BP for some odd reason even when 2 years has past
6. It's a movie its suppose to be fun and for you to enjoy it, if you cant enjoy it that's cool, but trying to dumb it down just because ppl cant understand why a fictional African nation can be so advance with the help of an alien tech is as dumb as ppl dumbing star wars (the good ones not the new shit)
@@ampocalypsew3883 3. In any point is the island of Wonder Woman advance, they live centurys, so they live like helenist greece with gods that give them just enough to keep going the same way
And The cómics of Aquaman explain that Atlantis is just the political Capital, the undersea people are like a Whole continent with independt goverment
Maybe black panther shouldnt be a part of the mcu because its canon throws the whole thing outta whack. If a panther god gave a heart shaped herb then where does that leave thor and all those guys. This ancestral plane also makes no sense in the context of the mcu. I get the creators wanted to pay homage to tribal african believes in mythologies, but it doesnt mesh with the overall theme of the mcu
Yes! Exactly! "Resource curse" should push Wakanda inside a state of constant cruel civil wars for these resources. And the isolation should make this country in the constant deep regress.
It seems like the Wakandan citizens are very happy with how things are though and none want all the space metal for themselves, for unknown reasons. If you picked a group of regular humans from anywhere in the world today, it would be likely you'd have at least some renegades in the group wanting to strip the resources and keep it to themselves but that doesn't happen much in Wakanda.
The regression can be countered by the metal that does everything. It is so far ahead of any other technology this planet has ever seen it will be ages before anyone can call Wakanda regressive. Perhaps the country sees itself as the guardian of that technology, which could end the world in an instant if given to the wrong people.
Or society could just organize in their own tribal style to let someone run things and trust them with it.... like it happened in every country that wasnt too busy getting colonized and explored to hell (which is the reason behind the cruel african civil wars)
That's not really how the "Resource Curse" works, what generally happens with the situation is that outside powers start trying to muscle in on the valuable resources that they lack and coming into conflict both with the Natives and other world powers that want the contested resources.
Wakanda would still be screwed but would not be any more likely to suffer from civil wars than any other nation.
You actually see this in the movie to some degree. Their system of succession throws the country into civil war practically overnight.
FEE said “Wakanda sense does this story make?! This city is impossible.”
I feel that Wakanda is kinda like the Hidden Leaf village - it looks glorious, decent and cool in a first glance, but the more you delve into the settings you realize how much of a desolate isolationist state it was. Thanks for the interesting video.
The Hidden Leaf Village at least goes to war every few years.
Two things that are completely realistic about Wakanda: it's an absolute dictatorship which is the rule in Africa, and it has a single resource based economy with no business diversification, also the rule in Africa. Can you imagine if this movie was about a tiny European nation where everyone was white, ruled by an absolute dictator and it became wealthy despite refusing to engage with the outside world?
newweaponsdc That would be Latveria ruled by Dr. Doom
Notice he's a villain, no white character would portrayed as a hero coming out of a country like that.
newweaponsdc Not in today's world anyway, and there was one run of BP where Wakanda wasn't this hyper advanced utopia and instead was just really responsible with its resources and had super tight border control IIRC, the only real secret it had was the mountain full of vibranium and that was a lot more believable over all
And Dr. Doom respects black panther. So the comic writers did make that connection, but the difference is one of them uses his powers for evil;
That's actually something that isn't that uncommon in comics there's also Atlantis and genosha.
Really like this video and whilst I almost entirely agree, the point was raised in the movie that other countries are catching up to Wakanda (without vibranium technology as a shortcut somehow) so an arguement could be made that Wakanda's isolationism has negatively affected its development particularly during the 21st century, and would perhaps in the future fall behind the rest of the world. A bit like an Xp boost which is running out
Yah I noticed that point made by one of the actors too, it can credited to the movies scriptwriters for being self aware of the unique situation wakanda finds itself in as they wrote that script.
But wakanda has spies they have been monitoring the entire world so they isolate themselves but they are not ignorant of the rest of the world so his analogy to Australia isn't valid
Handle this is interesting
This is what I was hoping to find in the comments! I had this nagging feeling while watching this video that there had to be some quips scattered about that hint at a subtle, creeping negative impact of their self-imposed isolation.
Regarding Andre's point above, spies are typically results of professional level training while also directly under state control, so while maybe the Australia example could be faulty to some degree, I think it would be reasonable to fault the authoritarian government for rejecting the influx of external ideas that could have possibly extended their "XP boost" of technological advancement. So it essentially had the same net effect as a legitimate landmass induced isolation. Maybe? Possibly? Idk, was a fun vid either way.
Handle that's why free to play players are generally better than pay to wins hehe
Thank you for the fantastic video, I show it to my students as a supplement to a unit on economic geography. Out of Frame is a very beneficial resource for educators!
The Black Panther comic "A Nation Under Our Feet" actually touched upon the issue of T'Challa being in absolute power!
Thank you for the education
Wakanda hasn’t been completely isolated though, considering that they participate in UN gatherings. Also, the outside world had dubbed them of some sort as ‘a country of farmers’ from there I could imagine that their front form of trade is agriculture.
empress eriu North Korea also participates in UN meetings.
empress eriu isolationism≠people not knowing you exist it just means you don't take part in anything else people do everyday unless necessary or it directly effects you
Think united states during the first part of WWI
Even so going from where Africa was to what they are now requires a complete reright of history, it is unlikely that fire arms would of existed in wakanda until the second half of the 20th century (when bans were removed) they also would be unlikely to see cars, understand magnitism ect, without some major form of trade and engagment. More over the free time to develop scientific inquiry and indeed the idea of science (science is a methodology after all) would not occur due to a lack of wealth, meaning it would have to be, at first, open to trade with europe... as a sub saharan, land locked tropical kingdom. Yeah no that is not gonna happen. Further the laughable idea of a tribe (of any kind) with advanced weapons not expanding into empire is just laughable. It shows a fundemental lack of understanding of the human condition.
Foundation for Economic Education maybe north korea too have its own hidden high tech city...
w8w0t sayitagain It looks more like it’s a Country that went into isolation only a few decades ago. I mean what possible explanation is there for the isolated wakanda and the rest of the world to both develop cars, trains, skyscrapers, firearms and aircrafts just coincidentally very similar?
I am one of 3 people who didn't watch movie.
You saved 2 hours from your life. The movie is just hype. It's pretty crap.
Same here. Sorry, don’t find the Black Panther very interesting character. Who is the third one? Show yourself!
@@marshallislandsg5630 I wouldn't say it was crap it just has flaws like everything else and besides opinions are subjective so there's no telling how he/she would've interpreted the film in the first place.
Same, I haven't even watch the last movie of Avengers
Grats, here's your cookie.
Anyone else ”randomly” getting this in their recommended after Chadwick passed? R.I.P
One problem with these movies is they pretend to be grounded in our time but then show us technology that can't possible be...Ifor example: flying aircraft carriers.
This video is great, but the only flaw is that it is never described as isolated from trade. In fact, in the comics, T'Challa's father, once he knew about the value of the metal, began to sell of the extremely precious metal in small amounts, resulting in their wealth and some of the overly technologically advanced villains in their universe.
Other than that, great video; I agree with it. If Wakanda's leaders weren't the wise, moral, Stoic characters they were, Wakanda would have gone down the drain before you could blink.
Edit: And education, too. Part of the immense wealth he made went to send qualified people from his nation, including his son, to learn in the best universities so that they could learn how to properly use it.... Yeah, yeah, I know I'm over-analyzing a comic.
@Thecontrodude proversial vibranium is 10,000 dollars per gram in the comics
Kim Jong up opened up after watching this
@Drew oml ur a sad fuck
Lol to both sanamana and Julian the guy
Wakandan army forming ranks to face the us military: …where are they?
Warrior: ha they must be scared! …what’s that in the sky-
**drone strike**
Turns out it medieval square formations SUCK in modern combat
can't expect to have a dialogue with people who only argue from an emotional stand point and not a logical one
Thor's homeworld, Asgard, is a multicultural/multiethnic place, whilst Wakanda is all black african. No SJW influence at all.
Asgard is in space. Where is Wakanda? East Africa.
Other than Hogun -- who was NOT from Asgard (his home as seen in Thor 2 is elsewhere) -- and Heimdall -- who was race-changed for the MCU, exactly who are all these multi-ethnic Asgardians? And where were all the multicultural Asgardian storylines?
Just like a racist xenophobe -- let in two immigrants and immediately claim you have a multi-ethnic society.
mystichdx all the black asgardian civilians for example, now I don't really care about this problem much, but if you've watched the movie you would have seen them
Roo Jackaroo "the movie", we talking about Ragnarok? The two or three they sprinkled into crowd scenes? I'm overwhelmed. Hey, it only took them three Thor movies to get that far.
C'mon, let's be real for a second here. Asgard was always shown as overwhelmingly white, with a completely homogeneous culture to boot. Which is perfectly fine by the way. I never said there's anything wrong with that. I'm just replying to this deranged lunatic that thinks depicting an isolated East African nation as exclusively African is somehow SJW behaviour. This is the type of person that argues that 2+2 equals 22.
mystichdx apart from Valkyrie, a character from the main cast and so many other black/brown/Asian asgardian civilians, not many others,
But ironically, the whole point of Black Panther was being more open and opening g the borders to more people, something the original commenter didn't get
In the movie, I believe it is stated that the meteorite crashed into Africa 5,000 years previously, and that the five tribes decided at around the same time, after the internecine warfare, to form a single nation, or something along those lines.
However, in the film, it is very clear that the Wakandans, judging by their physiology, are a people of Bantu extraction, e.g. the milk-chocolate brown skin to name one.
This is interesting, considering that the Bantu people only began their migration out of what is now roughly Cameroon and the Gold Coast 2-3,000 years ago, and would have likely taken a few hundred years to make it to the East Coast of Africa.
Now imagine, for a second, that during its 5,000 years as a single nation, or homeland, that the Wakandans had successfully managed to keep out all outsiders.
In theory, this could mean that the people of Wakanda are actually ethnic Pygmies....
Now wouldn't that be a more interesting film.
Also, according to Wikipedia, the Wakandan language is based on the Xhosa language of South Africa, hence why it contains clicks.
Now, in reality, Wakanda is simply far too north for it to really have click-based consonants in its morphology. The only African languages that do are the Khoisan languages, whose range is restricted largely to the Namibian desert (though I could be wrong about this).
Though additionally, it is largely believed that the earliest human languages did contain clicks, and maybe it is a sign of the static nature of Wakandan society that their language has retained them.
It is also possible that Wakanda didn't bother keeping its people "pure", ie, Bantu peoples emigrated into Wakanada and mixed with what were Pygmies. THe language could have shifted over time. Wakanda remains unconquered but there is less saying about it being unaltered by time.
That probably is what happened. But who here wouldn't now rather a film where all the Wakandans are Pygmies, with the exception of Killmonger, who is still played by Michael B. Jordan?
Pygmies? Lies everyone in this movie was tall!
Where did you get your numbers from ? The meteorite hit the continent millions of years ago not 5,000. He literally says it right in the opening scene.
This man said the word “nope” while showing a scene with Daniel Kaluuya. You sir, are a prophet
04:10 There is a great book that explains this paradox. It's called "The Dictator's Handbook"
Better yet, evolutionary game theory is the basis for new, truly scientific social studies.
Okay, I am going to put my neck out here and risk myself to being burned with hate for this, but, you are all overthinking this entire thing. Let me at least explain.
What do we see in the movie? Wakanda is an isolated region protected by a clocking shield. They possess the strongest metal known to man and have used this metal to develop a society beyond that of the Modern World. We are lead to believe that the government is run by a single king who, as far as we can tell, gets the final say in all laws and decisions. That is it.
That said, to assume that Wakanda is lacking in other aspects just because it is not "seen" is worse than nitpicking. As a small defense to these movies, movies are not always given the ability or time to world-build a proper setting with no loopholes. As a fantasy writer myself, even I am faced with this problem when writing a novel, which might I add offers ten times the amount of flexibility to world-build compared to a movie. Therefore, expecting these details to be addressed or hinted at in a single movie that must maintain a main plot is ridiculous.
Second, did anyone bother to even ask or consider how this society would function in this given state? No. You're not considering all the angels. So let's break it down.
Food: The center of every society. Without it, you can't live. After the discovery of the unique metal in the ground and its potential in developing technology, it is safe to assume that farming tech would have been a priority. First developing better plows and tools to support the need for food. Seeing that Wakanda is located in a dense forest, it is safe to assume that land is also great for farming. In fact, farms are even captioned in the movie for a short time. The biggest advantage Wakanda has at this point is that the population is small. This would lead to producing more food than is necessary and thus able to sustain an increase in population on its own.
Education: The next biggest factor in maintaining their society would be in educating the people. From day one, ALL advancements in technology would be recorded. Both failed and successful experiments. Seeing that they refused to share this knowledge with outsiders, it is reasonable to assume that it would become a requirement that ALL children would study this knowledge and be entrusted to continue research. This system would closely resemble the Rule of Two from Star Wars, as each apprentice would only ever earn the title of master after exceeding the skill of their mater and claiming the title for their own. In this case, students would be expected to learn what their parents have learned, take that knowledge and use it to further develop where they left off. The education system could then support itself without the need of outsiders.
It is also worth noting that outside the capital, tribes loyal to Wakanda still wonder the land and interact with people from the modern world. Through these people and the acquisition of spare pieces of modern tech, they would bring to Wakanda ideas and knowledge that would be added to their existing pool and use it to further their own endeavors. It would be because of this that Wakanda would be able to develop technology alongside the known world, acquiring knowledge of new tech as these tribes interact with outsiders. It is also worth noting that Wardog cells are confirmed to exist across the known world. Spies and agents of Wakanda who can also report back not only on technology but also on the political developments of the world. This would be a secondary means to which Wakanda could generate knowledge to aid in the development of their own society. All the while, staying isolated.
It is also worth noting, though unconfirmed, that explorers from the outside world may have stumbled across their secret city many times, both before and after the creation of this shield. In these rare cases, it would be reasonable that either these people would be tortured for everything they know about the outside world or a deal to let them live out their lives in Wakanda in exchange for their knowledge could also be made. This would only add another means to which Wakanda could acquire outside knowledge to advance their society.
Economy: Now this one, admittingly, is quite possibly tricky. Another benefit that Wakanda possesses is that it does not NEED a currency system. Their economy would be structured around two methods. A) All capital goods or any goods required for mear survival would be shared by the community. Thus, all residents are entitled to a home, food, and supplies to stay clean. Considering that knowledge would be shared openly between all, (at least within the early stages of development), maintaining this would not be a struggle. The people of this society are forced into a situation where they must depend on each other for what they cannot acquire elsewhere. Their whole social network would be based on this. For anyone not in a position of authority, everyone would be equal.
Government: Which brings us to the next topic. Now, before you go off and say there is no 'apparent' means to balance the power, keep in mine that Wakanda is made up of four distinct tribes. Each tribe has its own leader, and each tribal leader has a say in whether or not they support the elected king. Because of Wakanda's ability to pull information from the political structures of the outside world, even secretly, it is fair to assume that they have seen what does and does not work. This can lead to a development of different systems that were not made known in the movie that act as a means to prevent specific situations from occurring. However, it can also be assumed that the only way these measures can be taken into action is by a majority vote of the tribal leaders.
Therefore, the reason why Warmonger was not usurped from the throne was not that of a failure to recognize the man's flaws, but because he had persuaded the other tribal leaders into believing that if they did not conquer the world, they would always be a threat of being conquered. Before someone jumps at me and says this would not be possible because of their advanced tech, I would like to bring another example to the table to prove this is a valid argument. In the Star Gate Atlantis TV series, we lean the Ancient race that built the entire Star Gate network was brought down and destroyed by a lesser civilization. It is stated that the wraith rivaled their own tech advancements, but it is also made clear that Ancient Technology was still far superior to the Wraith that had they possessed a larger military, it is likely the wraith would have lost. However, to counteract the superior technology of the Ancients, the wraith relied on vast numbers, overwhelming the more advanced civilization to a point that they had to retreat from the Pegasus Galaxy all together to save their own kind from being obliterated.
Like the Ancients, Wakanda's biggest threat was not in the technological advancements of the modern world, but in their superior numbers and ability to mobilize a much larger military force compared to their own. This is a threat Warmongurer used as a rallying point to gain the support of the clans. In the end, however, it was his complete disregard for Wakandan Tradition that broke down everything he tried to start. Had he continued the single-combat dule with the Protagonist and defeated him again in single combat, he would have retained his position as the king of Wakanda and most likely, have established an empire that would truly never see the end of a single day. For as he said, the sun would never set on the Wakanda Empire.
Granted, in declaring war on every known country, he would have also made it easier for Thanos to just come in and lay waste to what he started, or Wakanda would become humanities last home, forcing the world war to end and for some treaty to establish Wakanda as the leading military power of the entire world. Either or. But that tidbit is speculation I won't dive into that.
The point is, it is NOT IMPOSSIBLE for a small community like Wakanda to thrive in an Isolated area. It is not impossible for new means of obtaining trade and knowledge to develop as the times goes on. Its clear in the movies alone that Wakanda possesses a VAST intelligence network, one that would have been developed over a long period of time and most likely have played a critical role in not just maintaining their cover but also feeding Wakanda with additional knowledge to grow the civilization to its current state.
Now, before anyone comments below on calling all of this BS and Impossible, keep in mind that when forced into specific situations, humans, in general, can pull off some really crazy shit. It takes determination, unity, and loyalty to establish what Wakanda has, and seeing that the world has always seen Wakanda as a 'third world country' with nothing of value but a possible slave market has given them the PERFECT cover to pull this off. Not to mention a damn good reason to stay isolated. Set your mind to a goal, and it is no longer impossible but inevitable. Unless some outside source stops you or you him some struggle you cannot overcome or believe you cannot overcome, there is a LOT you can achieve. It all comes down to what you are willing to standby. In this case, every Wakanda citizen was sick of dealing with the greedy and backstabbing nature of the outside world, pushing them to establish themselves as their own people and stay isolated not just to hide their tech but to spare themselves the risk of further conquest and enslavement.
That all said, please remember that, again, movies do not have a lot of room to world-build. These details are ignored for a VERY good reason and that is because it diverts away from the plot of the story. Has this been an established TV series, then there would be LOADS of room to establish these details, but it simple does not have that luxery.
Sadly alot of people were fooled by Wakanda and there was even the whole "this is how Africa would be without colonialism." Also there ws something else about Wakanda that was odd: polytheism and ancestor worship of gods that are from Egypt and India, which begs the question as to when they allegedly isolated themselves as the majority religion in the region Wakanda is, is Islam, followed by Chrisianity. Also, you make a point for Wakanda not being isolated when you look at T'Challa's sister who is the only one taking in foreign influences. As typical for an American movie it is only American influences as if no one ever did anything good who is not American.
Wakanda is supposed to be the fantasy of Africa without Colonialism, however technological skills such as mass manufacturing and metallurgy technologies, as well as resource extraction and manipulation of Rare Earth Minerals has mostly been a European advancement. Not to mention aeronautical engineering and drone technology, such as the aircraft used in the first Black Panther movie.
No way an NSA Spy Satelite or a KGB Communications satellite would pass over the area and not notice the massive regional development of Wakanda before the cloaking shield went up.
In fact the this whole fantasy of Africa without colonialism is incredibly far fetched, so much that Lord of the Rings seems more likely. Not only does that fantasy completely ignore the history of the region Wakanda allegedly is in but it basically claims that there was no evidence for Wakanda's might in centuries past, which is completely ridiculous. In fact that Eldorado line by Klaue in the movie made me role my eyes because in the Middle Ages Africa was actually presented as just that, magical kingdoms full of riches.
Actually, and I think you might be making the same mistake so many others do, you would not have needed to wait for any Western powers. Considering that Wakanda is situated right below Ethiopia you can be damn sure the Egyptians, the Greeks, the Romans, the Arabs or the Seljuks would have long tried to conquer it and would have kept record of it. The same with China. If Wakanda had really been so technologically advanced ahead of all the other countries in the world, there is no way they would have stayed secret, that knowledge, even just in myth form would have spread. But Wakanda is just African American wish-fullfilment anyway if you ask me, as you can see in how it looks, how it is depicted as a society and who is depicted in getting the help first.
maxwell adams, Estonians are white, did they make Africa do any of those things?
inotaishu1 Your kind speaks of Africa as if its a monolith but you expect me to what ? Pick through nuances in the alleged differences in whites. All white nations look at Africans as inferior regardless of the level being involved in Africas demise. An African is and African in your eyes so why shouldnt a European be a European?
It's no longer about the superheroes... it's now about race.
Wakanda reminded me of Rapture from Bioshock, a city that became advance from the rare adam resource but collapsed because of isolation
The main issue i remember was just the fact all the military technology was apparently designed by one person... His sister. Technology only half as complex takes teams of people to put together at any decent speed.
Padrae you clearly didn't watch the movie..
She had teams of other scientist who probably helped her, also there were probably others before here. Maybe tchaka/ tchalla.
@Pappy Tron Tony Stark is the smartest human in the Marvel universe, he was genetically engineer by aliens to achieve that and his technology will - eventually - be way more advanced than anything she has made.
Good point. And in fairness, audiences have been accepting the premise of one-man armies and sole renegade cops singlehandedly saving lives and punishing armies of villains when in reality elite fighters work as a team to conquer threats that big.
I disagree with the part about nations with lots of natural resources having the most problems. Western Europe at one point had the majority of the world's coal and they used that coal to dominate the world for a entire century. We see this today with resource rich nations because of imperialism and Cold War stupidity. European imperialism divided groups which made it less likely for all the groups to work together to fix their problems. There was also Cold War shenanigans where both the USSR and US toppled governments and installed dictators that bend to their will. The Congo for example would not have been a hell hole if the US hadn't toppled their democratically elected leader and install Mumbutu who screwed over their entire economy.
Other than that, good video.
Agreed! 👍 He totally got that one wrong IMO.
The reason why Europeans hadn't suffered resource traps is do to the cultural development of Europe. Many Nations around the Earth had more resources sitting in the ground than Europe, but it took the Europeans and the technology they developed to exploit those resources. A big reason for Europe's success has a lot to do with the fact Europe was a very divided continent and you had an arms race of ideas between competing states. No one could rest on their laurels like countries like China could. The Europeans had to constantly up the anti in almost all fields to keep up with competing states from Science and Economics to Statecraft and Warfare. They basically developed a culture that was conducive to wealth creation and kept corruption at a minimum. Many resource rich countries in the third world do not share the same cultural attitudes and fall into Resource Traps. Both Venezuela and Norway are oil rich nations, but have had wildly different Economic outcomes and that is they had fundamentally different political cultures that managed the countries resources differently. Norway exercised fiscal prudence and spent the money in ways that didn't disrupt the economy. Venezuela on the other hand spent all the oil wealth and then some and it often disrupted the local economy. So when oil prices crashed Norwegians didn't suffer much impact. At worst the government had to cut some spending and their pension got a little smaller. Where as Venezuela's subsidizing of foreign imports destroyed local businesses and industry while they had no money to pay for basic government services. You can even see this cultural divide between Anglo America and Latin America. Anglo America was driven by independent settlers and entrepreneurs looking to make a living. While Latin America was dominated by Conquerors and Nobles to exploit readily available resources. The land in Anglo America was not as rich and fertile as Latin America, but Anglo America is far more prosperous because of differing cultures. We have plenty of examples that were former colonies being quite economicly successful either pulling out of a Resource Trap, or avoiding it entirely.
oldedude51 this is the actual truth of the matter.. however the actual crux of the matter is the number of people. In a situation like China there is a critical mass of people thus isolationism did not effect it in the same way that it did Tasmania as China pretty much had a wide varied group of clans, territories, varying landscapes, weather systems, mountains, valleys etc.
moviedude XD Before all that imperialism, Europe was very much behind, that is why there is a coined term "dark ages".
Then they began trading with the Chinese, got silk and more importantly knowledge on how to make *gunpowder.* So the reason why they could invent effective guns and conquer the world was.... because of trade.
@@Chronically_ChiII Actually 'dark ages' didn't exist lol.
Why is it not possible?
Lets say
- you have an abundance of rare element that only you have
- the element can be synthesized with about everything as long s you keep the research and study
- you have the right mindset of developing the tech for basic daily use
- stable politics lead by a trusted person to a community where everybody agrees on the same principle
- you can casually go out to the outside world to study what's happening and bring back what you need and reverse engineer it with vibranium tech
- you have and invincible but also invisible living space
The movie portrayed that 3 basic necessities of life is met.
- Shelter, safe and livable. checked
- Food, crops and livestocks. checked
- Clothing, they are able to wear and flex their clothes however they want
I felt like a nerd writing this, but clearly Wakanda is self-sustainable and progress-able. I would isolate myself if I already have all that
If I'm bored I can casually go out to the outside world hanging out with the Avengers, and prolly say be like
"What's up cap? Vibranium shield? Cool...Cool.."
" Tony my man. Figured out how to save the world from an alien invasion yet? I heard about this force field dome.."
There are other ways of living besides democracy and capitalism.
Wakanda foreba
Would be cool if Black Panther 2 showed Wakanda's transition to some sort of democracy where T'Challa willingly gives up some of his power in order to reform the government (kinda like the Royal Family in the UK)
Wakanda: a country hidden from the world that no one can find.
Bruce banner: one google search and he funds it.
(Age of Ultron)
Wakanda presents itself as a normal Sub-Saharan nation but hides its true self behind that forcefield.
remember that city hulk smashed?it was wakanda, the hidden vibranium capital is just one city, not the whole nation
Zennim that was South Africa
Klaue wasn't talking about "Wakanda" was real, he was talking about the legend of the lost city of Shangri-la, basically it's an old legend of a super rich city hidden away in South America that the Spanish never found, made entirely of gold. Klaue was arguing that the real "Shangri-la" was Wakanda, of course, a city made of gold would have crashed the gold price irl, but still.
Agent Camtho Claw was talking about El dorado the Golden City not Shangra-LA which is a legendary city in China.
I have a vibranium in my drawer
Vibranium is better used in a vibrator.
Vibranium bondage gear - now you too, can have superhero-level rough sex without damaging your expensive toys!
*WEAPONISED CONDOMS*
If you don't start selling this, I will.
1. What?
2. Why?
4:32 "countries with fewer natural resources" *shows Hong Kong
China is triggered
Tbh, we never actually do see anyone who’s not in immediate contact with the king, we only see other wealthy families and the military. For all we know, the more ORDINARY citizens could actually be living in squalor
Add to all that, the extreme isolationism of Wakanda would also result in a high potentiality of inbreeding, severe inbreeding at that.
Also the very definition of an Ethnostate.
not with a big diverse genetic pool. Five distinct clans/tribes plus they did fight wars with neighbours and spy/trade eg in Ethiopia so i'm sure their agents were alaways bringing home baby mamas lol
the isolationism of the earth in the cosmos also results in a high potential for inbreeding if I follow your argument... I was being sarcastic there, but Africa has the highest genetic diversity out of every continent.
Wakanda is an ethnostate mainly because they are scared of what would happen if the world found out about them and the vibranium .
The Batman the population is far too large and diverse for that to happen
You can compare Wakanda to Japan when the Tokugawa dynasty took over, making them isolationist.
After closing their country, their economy blew up, and only traded with the Dutch in Nagasaki. But then they start to slowd down and started to fall, but the Meiji Restoration restarted their economy and military.
Sakoku Japan only grew because the wars stopped. In fact, less than 100 years into sakoku, the economy had begun to stagnate.
canintospace polan Japan’s economy and development sky rocketed once they opened up to trade. They went from a Simi strong Asian nation to defeating a European empire. If that doesn’t show you the benefits of trade I don’t know what will.
@@matthewhellmann5759 Yeah. They would have ended up like Chinese(opium war) if they didn't have an innovative man like Meiji.
What's wrong is the inability of people to recognize double standards
My biggest problem with this movie is that Wakanda looks so rich and technological developed yet did nothing to help their African brethren countries, that still lives under poverty. Well most of them.
True but the point of the movie was showing why that was wrong so I don't really follow.
Why is that a problem? If they are isolationist, why should they care for others?