The Limbu and Rai communities in Nepal and Sikkim have long been associated with the ancient Kirat people. However, despite the widespread belief in their antiquity, there is a dearth of archaeological evidence to support this claim. In fact, the available data suggests that these communities are not ancient Kiratas but rather refugees who migrated from China during the Mongol conquests and later sought refuge in Nepal and Sikkim. One of the primary arguments against the antiquity of Limbus and Rais is the lack of written records and archaeological sites that date back to the time period when they are believed to have inhabited the region. In contrast, there are numerous forts, palaces, and inscriptions that attest to the presence of the Sen Thakuris and Bhutias (Chogyals) in Eastern Nepal and Sikkim, dating back over 600 years. Furthermore, the cultural and linguistic practices of Limbus and Rais are more closely aligned with those of the Mongolian people than with the Kirat people. For instance, the Limbus have a significant amount of Mongolian DNA, which distinguishes them from other Mongoloid groups in South Asia. This genetic connection is a strong indication that they are not indigenous to the region but rather migrated from China during the Mongol conquests. The migration of Limbus and Rais from China to Northern Tibet and then to Nepal during the 17th century is well-documented in historical records. They sought refuge in the Sen kings of Nepal and the Chogyals of Sikkim, who provided them with protection and land in exchange for their military services and cultural practices. In summary, the available evidence suggests that Limbus and Rais are not ancient Kiratas but rather refugees who migrated from China during the Mongol conquests and later sought refuge in Nepal and Sikkim. Their cultural and linguistic practices, as well as their genetic makeup, are more closely aligned with those of the Mongolian people than with the Kirat people. Therefore, it is essential to reevaluate the historical narrative surrounding these communities and recognize their true origins and migrations.
@@ShumitraMagar Rai Limbu kirati hoina. China ko sinchuwan bata tibet chireko ra tibet bata chogyal ra Sen Thakuri ko rajya ma saran lieko saranarthi haru hun.
मैले यो लामो प्रस्तुति धैर्यताका साथ सुनें, हामीले इतिहास भनेको , मानेको भन्दा पनि धेरै धेरै परको कुरा, विषय आयो । अति रोचक र खोजमूलक लाग्यो । धेरै धेरै धन्यवाद छ सर यहाँको खोज अन्वेषणको लागि ।
किरातहरू, जो इतिहासका केही पाठहरूमा भील पनि भनिन्छ, प्राचीन काठमाडौं उपत्यकाका वासिन्दा थिए। यद्यपि, विभिन्न सामाजिक-राजनीतिक दबाबहरूको कारण, तिनीहरूलाई बसाइँ सर्न बाध्य पारियो। किरातहरूको ठूलो भाग काठमाडौंको पश्चिमतिर भागेर खसहरूसँग मिसियो। त्यस्तैगरी, किरातहरूको अर्को खण्ड पूर्वतर्फ बसाइँ सर्दै पूर्वी नेपाल र असमको क्षेत्रमा बसोबास गर्न पुग्यो। असममा, तिनीहरूले स्थानीय इन्डो-आर्यन असमिया जनसंख्यासँग अन्तरमिश्रण गरे, जसले तिनीहरूको सांस्कृतिक र भाषिक विरासतलाई अझै मिलायो। यस संयोजनले असमिया र नेपाली (खस) भाषाहरू बीचका साझा भाषिक र सांस्कृतिक विशेषताहरूमा योगदान पुर्यायो, जसले तिनीहरूको इन्डो-आर्यन सम्बन्धलाई प्रकाश पार्छ। यो संगै, भील भाषासँगका समानताहरूले पनि नेपाल र भारतका विभिन्न भागहरूबीचको ऐतिहासिक र सांस्कृतिक अन्तरक्रियालाई झल्काउँछ। राई र लिम्बुहरू मूलतः मंगोलिया क्षेत्रबाट उत्पन्न भएका थिए। ७औं शताब्दीमा मंगोलियाबाट सिचुवान क्षेत्रमा बसाइँ सरेका थिए। मंगोल आक्रमणको कारणले गर्दा १३औं शताब्दीमा तिनीहरू उत्तर तिब्बततर्फ लागे। उत्तर तिब्बतबाट, अन्ततः तिनीहरू १६औं शताब्दीमा पूर्वी नेपाल र सिक्किमतर्फ शरणार्थीका रूपमा आइपुगे। त्यहाँ उनीहरूलाई लेप्चा भूस्वामीहरू र सेन राजाहरूले शरण दिएका थिए। इमान सिंह चेम्जोङको प्रभाव: दार्जिलिङका प्रमुख इतिहासकार इमान सिंह चेम्जोङको प्रयासले यस कथालाई महत्वपूर्ण मोड दियो। चेम्जोङले किरात जातिको पहिचानलाई पुनः परिभाषित गर्न महत्त्वपूर्ण भूमिका खेले। उनले "किरात" शब्दलाई मूल किरातहरू मात्र नभएर राई र लिम्बु समुदायहरूलाई समावेश गर्न प्रयोग गरे। यो पुनःपरिभाषा रणनीतिक थियो, विशेषगरी सिक्किममा राजनीतिक शक्ति र प्रभाव हासिल गर्न यी समूहहरूलाई एकीकृत गर्नको लागि। चेम्जोङको कामले यी समूहहरूको राजनीतिक जुटानमा महत्त्वपूर्ण भूमिका खेले, जसले सिक्किममा चोग्याल सरकारको चुनौती र अन्ततः पल्टाउने प्रयास गर्यो। किरात पहिचानलाई समेटेर, चेम्जोङ र उनका समकालीनहरूले एकीकृत मोर्चा बनाउन सक्षम भए, तर यसले किरात जातिको मौलिक इतिहासलाई मेटाउन र परिमार्जन गर्नको लागि नेतृत्व गर्यो। ऐतिहासिक मेटावटको पछाडिका राजनीतिक उद्देश्यहरू: किरात जातिको मौलिक इतिहासको मेटावट केवल ऐतिहासिक पुनर्व्याख्याको अनपेक्षित उपोत्पाद मात्र नभएर राजनीतिक उद्देश्यद्वारा प्रेरित योजनाबद्ध कार्य थियो। किरातको परिभाषालाई अन्य जातीय समूहहरूलाई समेटेर व्यापक बनाउने क्रममा, दार्जिलिङका इतिहासकारहरूले क्षेत्रको सामाजिक-राजनीतिक परिदृश्यमा थप शक्ति हासिल गर्न खोजे। नेपाली भाषा, असमिया भाषा, र भील भाषाहरू बीचका समानताहरूले दुवै भाषाको इन्डो-आर्यन सम्बन्धलाई पुष्टि गर्छन्। किरात (भील) मानिसहरू काठमाडौं उपत्यकाबाट लिच्छविहरूको आक्रमणबाट भागेर खस र असमिया जनतासँग मिसिएको हुँदा, यी भाषाहरूमा धेरै साझा शब्दावली, व्याकरणिक संरचना, र उच्चारणका विशेषताहरू छन्। उदाहरणका लागि, असमिया र नेपाली भाषामा प्रयोग हुने धेरै शब्दहरू र तिनीहरूको उच्चारण शैली एकअर्कासँग मेल खान्छ। यसले भाषिक समानताहरूले किरात जातिको इन्डो-आर्यन जरा र तिनीहरूको सांस्कृतिक अन्तरक्रियालाई देखाउँछ।
Probably best podcast ever . Totally connected. Gurung haruko grantha ma pani northern side bata aayera chhutiyeko vanne chha somehow it’s connected. Part 2 indeed
This historian or whatever rai was speaking without full knowledge but yeah he makes sense about Kirats history we did came from above from Tibet side in the past more than 6000 years or so not once but many times constantly it’s because the first batch of our group went to explore more lands and it’s also believed that first inhabitants india wasn’t even dravidians you should see Dravidian invasion history of India and timelines you can see pattern around 20000 years or 10000 cus science is never accurate that they were invading all over Oceania ,Indonesia ,Philippines even parts of South America ,The biggest joke was Dravids Munda people taught us about rice agricultures etc when originally we taught them it’s the other way around you can look around all over Asia we always had rice agricultural history,Egypt history is all made up no proofs . Dravidian also means people who lived or came from water .Dravidian’s aren’t first native to Asia and Europe too. This is what’s been taught nowadays the historians nowadays completely ignore Asian histories with biasedness it’s really getting super rare to know about real history nowadays because we’re all being fed lies
You can see Dravidian or Proto Dravidian uses Tibetian phonetic , Dravidian also shares culturals and even cuisines similarities with East Asians. You think it’s all just plain coincidence and furthermore proof is rongorongo language an Easter islanders language is known for indo Aryan or Dravidian mother language . We’re going full circles all around . You see? One hypothesis could be The First Nation peoples(red indians) may have brought us lanuguages ,cultures shamanism it’s weird how when they came a lot of mega ancient (lol I had to say cus everyone’s else are exaggerated but this one’s real)Asian civilisations (The artic colony 20000 in massive Russia ) ,and other mangolians rose and since then there we all have similarities but we cant respect each others as equal’s equilibrium has failed us but we share the same cultures around.
There are so many things that connects of Newari and kirati folklore the thing about some one coming from assam to teach us rice planting is so fascinating remember the main god if Newars karunamaya or rato machindranath was also brought from assam another thing sankhu is believed to be the oldest city of the valley so as the myth goes as the swoyambhu stupas seed was planted by amitabha Buddha and later on enshrined before the statue in sankhu there was the stupa enclosed to this day in temple and the Mahayana Buddhism was started there before Buddha then which I feel may not be called Buddhism then so too many dots were connected makes sense if we try to connect kırat mundhum. An interesting fact I know and we don’t care is newar play dhimey and the kırat too have the similar percussion drum and another thing newars and kirats both have a culture of worshiping their ancestors and yes ChyaSal exists and the modern days jyapu (kıssan) in newar community are kirats and identify as such viz. Maharjan dongol byanjankar manadhar Mali and few more. Interesting content
The Rais and Limbus were initially primitive tribes in eastern Nepal, often described as nomadic and lacking a structured society. However, their fortunes changed dramatically under British rule. The British, seeking reliable local allies, favored the Rais and Limbus, who in return supported British geopolitical interests, particularly in Sikkim. This patronage allowed the Rais and Limbus to gain significant socio-political leverage, which they used to further their own agendas. Conflict Between Lepchas and Bhutias in Sikkim The Lepchas and Bhutias have long been the primary ethnic groups in Sikkim. The Bhutia Chogyals ruled Sikkim for centuries, with the Lepchas playing a significant role in the kingdom's cultural and social fabric. However, the arrival and subsequent rise of the Rais and Limbus disrupted this balance. The Rais and Limbus employed a strategy of divide and rule, learned from their British allies. They fabricated narratives suggesting a shared origin between the Lepchas and Limbus, aiming to weaken the unity between Lepchas and Bhutias. By claiming that Lepchas and Limbus were the same people, they sought to undermine Bhutia dominance and create an ethnic rift. Moreover, the Limbus introduced a writing script purportedly derived from Tibetan and Lepcha sources, furthering their claim to a shared heritage with the Lepchas. The Bhutias, being relatively isolated mountain people, struggled to counter these sophisticated manipulations. The resulting confusion and mistrust between the Lepchas and Bhutias weakened their collective resistance against external influences, including those of the Rais and Limbus. Instigating Conflict Between Chettri and Brahmin in Nepal In Nepal, the Rais and Limbus attempted to exploit existing social hierarchies to create discord between the Chettri and Brahmin communities. The Chettris and Brahmins, both belonging to the Khas Arya group, have traditionally held significant political and social influence in Nepal. By fabricating stories and spreading rumors, the Rais and Limbus aimed to pit these two communities against each other. This divide-and-rule tactic involved highlighting and exacerbating minor disputes and differences, thus fostering a climate of mistrust and rivalry. The objective was to destabilize the socio-political cohesion of the dominant groups, thereby creating opportunities for the Rais and Limbus to assert their influence. Creating Division Between Shrestha and Maharjan The Shrestha and Maharjan communities, integral to the Newar society of Kathmandu Valley, were not immune to the machinations of the Rais and Limbus. By manipulating historical narratives and exploiting social tensions, the Rais and Limbus sought to create divisions within the Newar community. The Shresthas, typically of higher social status, and the Maharjans, primarily involved in agriculture and trade, were targeted through a campaign of misinformation and fabricated grievances. This strategy aimed to weaken the unity of the Newar community, making it easier for the Rais and Limbus to advance their interests.
@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd You and @ranjitamagar-ye1hv both joined just three weeks and 7 days ago, respectively as fake accounts. After joining, both of you began commenting with the main purpose of propagating baseless propaganda by replicating the same evidence-less phrases in every comment section. This behavior suggests a hidden agenda to divide society and create chaos.
@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fdthis guy without any credible source is spreading hate against Rai and Limboos in every social media post. Pathetic behaviour whichever caste u belong too.
I did a DNA analysis with the National Geography Genome Project, and it aligns well with Dr. Chamling's depiction. I belong to the Jyapu group, and my genetic mix shows 66% northeast asian, and the other 34% is a mix of others. My mother's ancestral DNA lineage resembles the modern-day Han Chinese.
Yeah, if we Tibetan-Burmese speakers of Nepal do our DNA test, we'll probably have more similarities with Chinese people. There are two reasons for this. First, there hasn't been much research done on the different branches of Sino-Tibetan and tibetan-burmese language speakers. So, all of us are just lumped together as "Chinese." Second, until recently, we mostly married within our own tribes. Inter-caste marriages are a new thing. So, our DNA has stayed pretty much intact. Don't be surprised if you get 0.1% Native American.
नेपाल र सिक्किमका लिम्बू र राई समुदायहरू लामो समयदेखि प्राचीन किरात मानिसहरूसँग जोडिएका छन्। यद्यपि, तिनीहरूको प्राचीनतामा व्यापक विश्वास भए तापनि, यस दावीलाई समर्थन गर्न पुरातात्विक प्रमाणहरूको अभाव छ। वास्तवमा, उपलब्ध तथ्याङ्कले यी समुदायहरू प्राचीन किराताहरू होइनन् तर मङ्गोल विजयको समयमा चीनबाट बसाइँ सरेका र पछि नेपाल र सिक्किममा शरण लिएका शरणार्थीहरू हुन् भन्ने देखाउँछ। लिम्बस र राइसको पुरातनता विरुद्धको प्राथमिक तर्कहरू मध्ये एउटा लिखित अभिलेख र पुरातात्विक स्थलहरूको अभाव हो जुन उनीहरूले यस क्षेत्रमा बसोबास गरेको विश्वास गरिएको समय अवधिको हो। यसको विपरित, त्यहाँ धेरै किल्लाहरू, दरबारहरू र शिलालेखहरू छन् जसले पूर्वी नेपाल र सिक्किममा सेन ठाकुरिस र भुटियाहरू (चोग्यालहरू) को उपस्थितिलाई प्रमाणित गर्दछ, जुन 600 वर्ष भन्दा पुरानो हो। यसबाहेक, लिम्बस र राइसको सांस्कृतिक र भाषिक अभ्यासहरू किरात मानिसहरूसँग भन्दा मङ्गोलियन मानिसहरूसँग बढी नजिक छन्। उदाहरणका लागि, लिम्बसमा मङ्गोलियन डिएनएको महत्त्वपूर्ण मात्रा हुन्छ, जसले तिनीहरूलाई दक्षिण एसियाका अन्य मङ्गोलोइड समूहहरूबाट फरक पार्छ। यो आनुवंशिक सम्बन्ध एक बलियो सङ्केत हो कि तिनीहरू यस क्षेत्रका आदिवासी होइनन् तर मङ्गोल विजयको समयमा चीनबाट बसाइँ सरेका थिए। 17 औँ शताब्दीमा चीनबाट उत्तरी तिब्बत र त्यसपछि नेपालमा लिम्बस र रइसको बसाइँसराइ ऐतिहासिक अभिलेखहरूमा राम्रोसँग दस्तावेज गरिएको छ। उनीहरूले नेपालका सेन राजाहरू र सिक्किमका चोग्यालहरूमा शरण लिए, जसले उनीहरूलाई उनीहरूको सैन्य सेवा र सांस्कृतिक अभ्यासहरूको बदलामा सुरक्षा र भूमि प्रदान गरे। सारांशमा, उपलब्ध प्रमाणहरूले सुझाव दिन्छ कि लिम्बस र रायहरू प्राचीन किराताहरू होइनन् तर शरणार्थीहरू हुन् जसले मङ्गोल विजयको समयमा चीनबाट बसाइँ सरे र पछि नेपाल र सिक्किममा शरण लिए। तिनीहरूको सांस्कृतिक र भाषिक अभ्यासहरू, साथै तिनीहरूको आनुवंशिक बनावट, किरात मानिसहरूसँग भन्दा मङ्गोलियन मानिसहरूसँग बढी नजिकबाट जोडिएको छ। तसर्थ, यी समुदायहरू वरपरको ऐतिहासिक कथाको पुनर्मूल्यांकन गर्न र तिनीहरूको वास्तविक उत्पत्ति र आप्रवासनलाई चिन्न आवश्यक छ।
seedha seedha bhan na. You have no proof of being there. Even a cavemen leaves a mark wherever he goes. Limbus have no mark in Eastern Nepal or sikkim. Just written histories during the british time. Limbus helped british to make sikkim a protectorate of British empire. The british helped them establish fake history.DNA test le prove garisakeko cha Rai, Limbu mongolia ko refugee ho Bhutia le uniharulai saran dieko ho. Sojha bhutia lai ullu banaera aile purai sikkim afno claim garisakyo
@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fdYou are mixing Sikkim and Nepal history. Bhutias definitely occupied Sikkim first. Kiratis settled later after being displaced by Shahs during and after unificiation of Nepal.
@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd You and @ranjitamagar-ye1hv both joined just three weeks and 7 days ago, respectively as fake accounts. After joining, both you began commenting with the main purpose of propagating baseless propaganda by replicating the same evidence-less phrases in every comment section. This behavior suggests a hidden agenda to divide society and create chaos.
भोगीराज ज्यू का कुरा सुन्दा यस्तो लाग्यो कि लिखित इतिहास हरू धेरै मा २५% मात्र सही, बाँकी काल्पनिक मात्र रहेछ जस्तो। यसको लागि यहाँ लाई हार्दिक धन्यवाद।
During the colonial period, the British strategically brought a significant number of Limbus to Darjeeling. This move was primarily aimed at maintaining a balance of power in the region and keeping a check on the Sikkimese and the Gorkhas. The British and the Limbus together had a profound impact on the political and social dynamics of the area, often undermining the established histories and authorities of the Gorkha and Sikkim kingdoms. The Erasure of Indigenous Histories The actions of the Limbus, supported by the British, were particularly detrimental to the histories of the Lepcha and Bhutia communities, the original rulers of Sikkim, and the Khas Aryans and Newars, the ruling communities of Nepal. The Limbus, leveraging their strategic position, engaged in activities that led to the significant erasure of these communities' historical narratives. This erasure was so extensive that for many years, the rich histories of the Lepchas, Bhutias, Khas Aryans, and Newars were largely forgotten. Rediscovery Through Archaeology In recent times, archaeological discoveries have begun to uncover the long-buried histories of these communities. Excavations have revealed substantial evidence of the Khas Aryan presence in Nepal, such as the remains of the Kakre Bihar and Khas Malla Durbars, as well as the Chand Durbar and Simrangarh sites. Inscriptions in the Nepali language dating back 1,200 years, and the remnants of King Bhupal Mahipal's 1,400-year-old durbar, have further substantiated the rich historical tapestry of the Khas Aryans. The Sen Thakuris, who ruled over Eastern Nepal for over 600 years, have also left behind numerous forts and palaces, such as the Makwanpur Gadi forts, Udayapur forts, and Bijaypur Durbar. These sites serve as tangible proof of their long-standing reign, extending into present-day Sikkim. The Limbus and Mongolian DNA Genetic studies have shown that the Limbus possess a high amount of Mongolian DNA, distinguishing them from other Mongoloid groups in South Asia. This genetic heritage supports the historical narrative that the Limbus, along with the Rais, migrated from the Sichuan province in China to Northern Tibet during the Mongol conquests. From there, they moved to Nepal in the 17th century, seeking refuge with the Sen kings of Nepal and the Chogyals of Sikkim. Historical Manipulations by the Limbus The Limbus were among the first Nepali groups to document their history, often writing it in a manner that favored their perspectives and interests. This has led to accusations of bias and misinformation. Historical accounts penned by the Limbus in the 1900s have been challenged and debunked through recent archaeological findings, which have unearthed significant evidence of the Khas Malla and other ancient kingdoms. Despite these findings, there remains a conspicuous lack of archaeological evidence supporting the long-term historical presence of the Limbus in Nepal, such as palaces, inscriptions, or other significant sites. The interplay between the British, the Limbus, and the indigenous communities of Eastern Nepal and Sikkim has had long-lasting effects on the region's historical narrative. While the Limbus played a crucial role during the colonial period, their actions, supported by the British, led to the suppression and erasure of the histories of other significant groups. Today, ongoing archaeological discoveries are gradually restoring these lost narratives, providing a more balanced and comprehensive understanding of the region's rich and diverse history.
@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fdmate you r crushing sentences with loaded heavy information nor you prove yourself writing long sentences and word. If you talking about yourself no one care but if you're horny to reveal evidence. Need to dig whole ktm valley seek grave soil. Every layer of soil have to cranes with chuck of muds. Yatro prithvi 9 billion people ko history tyekka timi nai Liya kina eauta vulnerable community matraii kina linxu? Lu vayo yo dharti ma timrai matraii khandan poila aako theya aba ta chitta bujyo hola gari khau.
@ranjitamagar-ye1hv and @SandeshKushwaha3924 I guess you are either closely associated or the same person with a mission. Please let me know why you are so much against Rai, Limbu people of Nepal. Did a Rai or Limbu do something bad to you? You are trying to challenge already established history of Kirati people without giving any reliable references. Read late Suniti Kumar Chaterjee ( the renowned Kiratologist), Nepal's number one Sociologist and Anthropologist Prof. Dor Bahadur Bista, Prof. Dr. Surya Mani Adhikary ( Khas specialist, author of The Khas Kingdom), Nepal's number one historian late Babu Ram Acharya for real history of Rai, Limbu and Kirat people.
@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd Addressing baseless claims with factual evidence is crucial. Limbus and Rais have rich cultural heritages supported by archaeological finds and oral traditions 1. Archaeological Evidence and Historical Narratives While Sen Thakuris and Bhutias played roles in the region, dismissing Limbu and Rai history ignores substantial evidence. Archaeological finds in Darjeeling and Nepal include stone inscriptions, relics, and fortifications suggesting ancient settlements. These findings predate the supposed dominance claimed solely by Sen Thakuris and Bhutias. 2. British Patronage and Historical Revisionism Role of British: The assertion that Limbus and Rais rewrote history under British patronage lacks substantial evidence. British colonial records indeed influenced the region, but attributing the entire historical narrative revision to them is simplistic. Limbu and Rai cultural histories predate British influence, evident in oral traditions and artifacts. 3. Oral Histories vs. Archaeological Evidence Response: Oral traditions are integral to Limbu and Rai culture, reflecting their deep-rooted connection to the land. Archaeological evidence supports cultural practices and settlements, validating their historical presence. 4. Genetic Ancestry and Migration Genetic studies show diverse ancestries among indigenous groups. Limbus and Rais have distinct cultural practices and languages, indicating their ancient ties to the region, long before any migrations. 5. Brahmins and Cultural Destruction Historical records show Brahmin migrations to Nepal occurred centuries later than indigenous groups like Limbus and Rais. Brahmins influenced social structures but did not diminish indigenous cultural contributions. Efforts to suppress indigenous narratives are well-documented in colonial and post-colonial histories
कतिपय आर्य नश्लको मानिसहरुलाई यी कुराहरू पचाउन मुश्किल भइरहेको छ। प्रत्येकको कमेन्टमा गएर नानाथरी लेखिरहेको छ। अहिले सम्म मैले खोजेको पढेको सुनेको इतिहासमा धेरै convincing यो podcast पाएँ। यसको लागि धेरै धेरै धन्यवाद। थप कुरा गर्नु पर्दा चाहिँ, उदाहरणको लागि राउटे जाति जसरी जंगलमा नै रहेको छ हालको समय सम्म त्यसरी नै सुरुमा यो उपत्यकामा सिकार खेल्दै आउने जाति मध्ये किरातीहरु नै हुन। यसरी आउने क्रम पछि सम्म नै चलेको हो, यसलाई नकार्न सकिन्न। कोही कैलाश मानसरोवर हुँदै आए कोही पूर्वको कमारुपा हुँदै आए अनि कोही दक्षिणबाट। दक्षिण बाट आउनेहरू चाहिँ धेरै पछि आएका हुन जो आर्य नश्लकाहरु हुन। उनीहरू मध्ये सुरुमा आउनेहरू चाहिँ पश्चिम क्षेत्रबाट आएकाहरु हुन जसलाई खस भनिन्छ। उनीहरू यहाँका पहिले नै आएर बसेका हरुसंग नजिकिन पुगेर उनीहरूको समाज र संस्कृति त्यही अनुसार बद्लिन पुग्यो। जो मानसरोवर हुँदै आए उनीहरू हडप्पा सभ्यता सँग नजिकिन पुगे। त्यही क्रममा उनीहरूमा द्रविडहरुको पनि केही प्रभाव पर्न गयो। यसरी गतिशील हुँदै हाम्रो समाज काठमाडौं उपत्यकामा एकीकृत हुन पुग्यो र जसको अन्तरसंघर्षको रूपमा नेवाः सभ्यता र समाज पनि विकास हुन पुग्यो। अन्त्यमा, यो हाम्रो नेपाली समाजको विकास बुझ्नको लागि समग्र हाल बसोबास गर्ने समुदायको दृष्टिकोण, समाज, परम्परालाई समग्रमा नियाल्नु पर्ने हुन्छ। हिजो ब्राह्मणवादी सोचले धेरै इतिहास दबिन पुग्यो। अनि अर्को कुरा, यलम्बरले काठमाडौं उपत्यकामा आगमनको विषयमा तामाङ समुदायमा एउटा राम्रो कथा छ, यसलाई अझ बुझ्न सीताराम तामाङ ज्यू लाई आमन्त्रण गर्न सक्नु हुन्छ। जाँदा जाँदै, चेम्जोङ जी ले भन्न छुटाउनु भएको कुरा चाहिँ जुन पाषण कालीन हतियार थियो त्यो मंगोलियाको गोबी क्षेत्रमा पाएको हतियार सँग मेल खान्थ्यो। धन्यबाद
@ranjitamagar-ye1hv khubai thakuri sanga connect huna khojeko hola Bali haang raja magar vanney yo Nepal maa vaako mongol Samaaj maa sabai vandaa kamjor rah aafulai mongol vandaa ni aaarya thakuri vanna ruchaauney jaat magar ho thakuri ley raajya garyo vandai maa magar le raajya gareko pusti hudaina na gurung ley tyo tai na tui ko jugey ko etihaas Lai haami maandai nau kirati haru ley haareyko raajya Lai feri paauna agdam tigdam kaheley Pani garenau baru arko raajya Tira laageu timi Lai chai brain wash gareko ho nani hijo haami 5-6 class padhney bela yalambar Lai Nepal ko pahelo raja maanthyo vanthyo bich maa fraud indian bahun etihaaskaar ley aayerah paal bangsha ley pahelo raaj garyo vanerah promote garyo thakuri magar hoina thakuri India bata vaagerah Aayeko ho magar haru lai veda banaayerah brain wash garerah magar rah thakuri eutai ho vandai promote garyo rahan sahan eutai hudai maa jaat tharr eutai hudaina
त नेपाली होइनस मुजि । त नस्ल बादी होस , नेपाली होइनस । जा आफ्नो उत्पति भएको ठाउँ जा । तेरो नस्ल को मुल तेरो बाउ भको ठाउँ जा । गेडा देखाउदै नेपाल किन बसि रको छस । तेरो नस्ल तेरो उत्पति जा भएको हो त्यही जा, सबै मिलेर बसेको नेपाल मा यो नस्ल त्यो नस्ल भन्दै सद्भाव भाड्ने काम नगर खाते ।
@@lyanglyang1 इतिहासलाई बताउँदा सदभाव विग्रिदैन। तर सत्य पचाउन सक्नु पर्दछ। जुन अहिलेको केही अर्य समुदायमा छैन। उनीहरू चाहिँ के नस्ल बादी होइनन्? अनि अर्को कुरा त्यो मंगोल के के भन्दै हिड्छन नी हो तिनीहरूको नी विरोधी हो म। तिमीहरूलाई म नश्लवादी लाग्छ भने लागोस। तर हिजो नामेट पारिएको ईतिहास उजागर गरिनु पर्दछ। जुन धेरै हदसम्म इतिहासले खोल्न नसकिरहेको छ/ दबाइरहेको छ। यी कुराहरू पच्दैन भने मुख पनि नछाडदा हुन्छ। हामीलाई पनि मुख छाड्न आउछ। अनि हामी सबै अफ्रिका बाट आएका हौ, खोज्दै जाने हो भने त्यही हो। इतिहासको कालखण्डमा हामी यो स्थानमा जम्मा भएका छौं। हाम्रो केही समाज र संस्कृतिले तिमीहरूलाई केही असर पार्दछ नै अनि तिमीहरूको समाज संस्कृतिले पनि हाम्रो समाज संस्कृतिलाई केही असर पर्दछ (सकारात्मक /नकारात्मक दुवै दृष्टिकोणले हेर्न सकिन्छ) । अनि यो विभिन्न तवरले समाजको अन्तरद्वन्द्व त चली नै रहन्छ। तर, अब के??? आपसी भाइचारा कायम गर्दै अघि बढ्नुको विकल्प छैन। इतिहास को यथार्थता कोट्याउँदा तिम्रो नाख दुख्छ भन त्यो नाक फलिदेऊ। त्यो तिम्रो समस्या हो।
@ranjitamagar-ye1hv जो ठूलो स्वरले कराउँछ त्यो सत्य हो भन्न सकिन्न मित्र। अर्को कुरा लिम्बू समुदाय कुनै एक समुदाय मात्र मिलेर बनेको छैन । उनीहरूमा अन्तिममा आउने जाति भित्र पनि जो यसै कार्यक्रमको अतिथि हुनुहुन्छ उहाँहरुको थर चेम्जोङ नी पर्दछ, जसलाई लिम्बू समुदायमा भोटे भनिन्छ। अनि हिजो ब्राहमण समुदायले छुटाएको ल्हासा र कासी गोत्रमा आफूलाई ल्हासा गोत्र बताउँछन् र अन्यले कासी। यो बसाइसराई को अवस्थिति हेर्दा पछि सम्म नै चलिरहेको देखिन्छ। तर तिमी त एउटै कुरालाई लिए अर्ध तथ्य पेलेको छौ पेलेको छौ। हेर अब १००/२०० वर्ष पछाडि यो काठमाडौं को डाँडा डाँडामा रहेको साना तिनी दरबारहरु अध्यनले झन् इतिहासलाई राम्ररी उजागर गरिदिने छ। अहिले कोही त्यता तिर खोज अनुसन्धान गर्न सकिरहेको छैन, ध्यान केन्द्रित गर्न सकिरहेको छैन। अनि अर्को कुरा १६/१७ औं सताब्दीमा आउने र प्राय अधिकांश आर्य हरु नै हुन् खोज्दै जाऊ तिमीहरूको जरा खस हरुको बाहेक ५/६/७ बढीमा ८-१० पुस्ता बाहेक यहाँ भेट्दैनौं।
The Limbus and Rais: Rewriting the History of Nepal's Darjeeling Hills The history of the Limbus and Rais in the Darjeeling hills has long been shrouded in myth and misinformation. Contrary to the popular narrative propagated by these groups, there is little archaeological evidence to suggest they were the ancient Kiratas who ruled over Eastern Nepal for centuries. In reality, the available evidence points to a very different story. The Sen Thakuris, not the Limbus or Rais, were the dominant rulers of Eastern Nepal for over 600 years. Their legacy is evident in the numerous forts, palaces and inscriptions that dot the landscape, such as the Makawanpur Gadi, Udayapur Forts and Bijaypur Durbar. Similarly, the Bhutias (Chogyals) established a strong presence in Sikkim during this period. Yet, through the patronage of the British in Darjeeling, the Limbus and Rais were able to gain an education and subsequently rewrite the history of the region in a way that placed them at the center. Leveraging the lack of written records among the Nepali populace, who were restricted from literacy under Rana rule, these groups crafted a mythical narrative of ancient Kirata kingships and oral traditions to bolster their claims. Tellingly, this revised history lacks any substantive archaeological or documentary evidence to back it up. Instead, it relies heavily on unverified "oral histories" that conveniently align with the Limbus' and Rais' desire to be recognized as the rightful indigenous rulers of the Darjeeling hills. Further undermining their claims is the genetic evidence, which reveals a strong Mongolian ancestry among the Limbus and Rais that distinguishes them from other Mongoloid groups in South Asia. This suggests they were likely refugees who migrated from China's Sichuan province to Tibet during the Mongol conquests, before eventually seeking shelter with the Sen kings of Nepal and the Chogyals of Sikkim in the 17th century. In essence, the Limbus and Rais, with the aid of the British, have succeeded in rewriting the history of Nepal's Darjeeling hills in a way that erases the legitimate claims of the Bhutias, Khas Aryas and Newars. This biased, Limbu-centric narrative has left historians grappling with a distorted understanding of the region's true past. Only by confronting this revisionist history with the weight of archaeological and genetic evidence can the record be set straight.
@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd if you’ve watched the last part of podcast where the guest mentions that world is dominated by written words and that oral traditions are usually portrayed to be “hawa”. And you kinda prove his point with your “theory”. And where have you sited your source for your argument? Darjeeling hills predominant has been Lepcha and Kirati(especially Limbu) area until the arrival of the Bhutias. But we also must remember that all our ancestors have migrated from somewhere. It is also believe that Kirati probably came into these parts through the northeastern part of India from the Yangzhi river basin. If you’d paid attention to the guest mentions it’s probably from the Eastern side from which these people might have arrived. This is also supported but many many many tribes from Northeast Indian who also claim that their ancestors too have originated in the same basin. Many in Nepal might not be aware but the food habits and traditions of most Northeastern Indian tribes (prior to some fully immersing themselves into the Christianity) are quite similar to that of Kirati tribes and they also belong to the same language family i.e Tibeto-Burman. But I’d love to learn more about your theory about British great conspiracy to say that Eastern Nepal and Darjeeling hills to be exclusively Kirati areas. And that fact that Newar and KHAS ARYAN had legitimate claims over these areas? It’s actually the great that Kiratis and other non KHAS ARYAN folks got the opportunity of modern education which was clearly denied in the then Nepal that they could learn about themselves and tell stories of their ancestors to the newer generation and the world. You say this narrative is bias without realising how bias your random statements is.And yes please do share a link of your sources :) Thanks
@@RameshYadav-d1rthe myth is everything… even the MAHABHARAT Kurukshetra war…. See the dates when kurukhsetra happened and when the Kirat ruled Nepal valley under yalember … kurukshetra war happened in 3100BCE & after 2000years of kurukshetra war i .e. 800BCE when Yalambar ruled kathmandu valley…
The Fabrication of the Kirat Identity The term "Kirat" was strategically adopted by Iman Singh Chemjong to create a sense of unity among the Limbus, Rais, and Yakkhas. However, this identity lacks historical authenticity. Before Chemjong's intervention, these groups did not collectively identify as Kirats. The word "Kirat" itself was first used in this context by Rana Bahadur Shah and not by the indigenous communities themselves. Prithvi Narayan Shah referred to the Limbus as descendants of Yehang, not as Kirats. This indicates that the Kirat identity was an artificial construct, imposed for political purposes rather than a reflection of a genuine historical lineage. Lack of Archaeological Evidence The historical narrative promoted by the Kirat movement claims that the Limbus and Rais are ancient inhabitants of Eastern Nepal, integral to the region's history. However, there is a glaring lack of archaeological evidence to support this claim. Unlike the well-documented presence of the Sen Thakuri dynasty and the Bhutia Chogyals, which is evidenced by numerous forts, palaces, and inscriptions such as those at Makawanpur Gadi, Udayapur Forts, and Bijaypur Durbar, there are no corresponding sites that can be attributed to Limbu or Rai rule. No inscriptions, palaces, or forts bear witness to a long-term Limbu presence or governance in Eastern Nepal. This absence of material evidence starkly contrasts with the rich archaeological heritage left by other ruling dynasties in the region, highlighting the lack of historical basis for the Kirat movement's claims. Genetic and Historical Discrepancies Genetic studies have shown that the Limbus and Rais possess a high proportion of Mongolian DNA, distinguishing them from other Tibeto-Burman ethnic groups in South Asia. This genetic evidence suggests that these communities migrated from the Sichuan province in China to northern Tibet during the Mongol conquests and later settled in Eastern Nepal in the 17th century. This migration narrative contradicts the Kirat movement's assertion of an ancient and indigenous lineage in Eastern Nepal. Instead, it positions the Limbus and Rais as relatively recent arrivals who sought refuge in the region under the patronage of local rulers, rather than as ancient inhabitants with a long-standing historical presence. A Spiteful Movement Against the Bhutia Community The Kirat movement was not merely an attempt to rewrite history; it was also a targeted campaign against the Bhutia community. Chemjong's efforts to foster a unified Kirat identity were driven by a desire to incite resistance and revolt against the Bhutia-dominated Kingdom of Sikkim. This movement was rooted in ethnic animosity and aimed at undermining the Bhutia community's historical and political significance in the region. The rebranding of the Yakthung Mundhum to Kirat Mundhum was a deliberate attempt to erase the Bhutia community's contributions and presence. By promoting a false narrative of historical dominance, the Kirat movement sought to marginalize the Bhutias and assert an unsubstantiated claim to the region's heritage. The Kirat movement, as orchestrated by Iman Singh Chemjong, was based on a lie and lacked any legitimate historical foundation. It was a spiteful and hateful campaign against the Bhutia community, aimed at rewriting history for political purposes. The lack of archaeological evidence supporting the claims of ancient Limbu rule, coupled with genetic and historical discrepancies, underscores the falsehoods at the heart of the Kirat movement. It is crucial to critically reevaluate this narrative and recognize the true historical context of Eastern Nepal and its diverse ethnic landscape. By doing so, we can ensure a more accurate and inclusive understanding of the region's history, free from the distortions and biases perpetuated by the Kirat movement.
@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd As a member of the Limbu community and part of the Kirat identity, I feel it is important to address some of the claims made regarding our history and heritage. Historical and Cultural Significance The Kirat identity is deeply rooted in the cultural and historical fabric of the Limbu, Rai, Yakkha, and other related communities in Eastern Nepal. Ancient texts, such as the Mahabharata and various Puranas, mention the Kirat people, indicating our long-standing presence in the region. Scholarly Contributions Scholars like Iman Singh Chemjong have played a crucial role in documenting and preserving the history, language, and culture of the Kirat people. Their work is not merely political but also a vital effort to protect and promote our cultural identity. Archaeological Evidence The absence of large-scale architectural remains attributed to the Limbu and Rai does not negate our historical presence. Many indigenous communities, including ours, have traditionally lived in harmony with nature, leaving fewer monumental structures but rich cultural landscapes. Oral histories, cultural practices, and smaller archaeological finds are also significant evidence of our historical presence. Brahmin Migration and Cultural Impact It is well-documented that the Brahmins arrived in Eastern Nepal later than the indigenous Kirat communities. Historically, their arrival has been associated with attempts to impose their culture and traditions, often at the expense of local customs and practices. This has included efforts to assimilate or erase the unique cultural and religious practices of the Kirat people. Despite these pressures, the Kirat identity has persisted, a testament to the resilience and strength of our cultural heritage. Political and Ethnic Context The Kirat identity is not a mere historical fabrication but an essential aspect of our cultural heritage. Efforts to unify the Kirat identity were aimed at fostering solidarity among marginalized communities, not at erasing the contributions of others. Historical narratives must be inclusive, recognizing the contributions and presence of all groups in the region. Conclusion The Kirat identity holds profound significance for the Limbu, Rai, and other Kirat communities. Our cultural heritage, documented by scholars and evidenced through our traditions, is a testament to our enduring presence in Eastern Nepal. It is crucial to respect and acknowledge the rich and diverse history of all ethnic groups in the region.
Thank you for such quality content. Please bring the Janak Lal Sharma, head of archeology department, as a guest. Hope to see more and more unbiased guests with great knowledge and researches.
After watching this video i just subscribed your channel.....to deep dive into the real history of nepal we must study the several unscripted stories of entire indigenous ethnicities of Nepal....very convincing statement Dr. Chamling.
@ranjitamagar-ye1hvDunge yog ma refuge vanne sabda poni vetindo raiixa hai malai ta thaha nai theyana teso va ta poilko Nepal ta aiile samma herda ta India Bata aune, China Bata aune, butan Bata aune, Pakistan Bata aune, Bangladesh Bata aune sabaii refuge raiixa hai dunge yog ko kura garne ho vane. Basha bikas vako koile ho poila Nepal eastern part ma basne sabaii refuge vannu khojeko hai. English type gardaii ma professor vayindaiana. Luh vo timro saka santan poilai bas theya xa gari khau
@ranjitamagar-ye1hv The Kirat dynasty represents the first recognized empire of the Nepali chronology, ruling the Kathmandu Valley and surrounding regions from roughly 800 BCE to 300 CE. While details regarding specific rulers and events remain sparse, this critical early kingdom laid the foundations for centralized governance, socio-cultural amalgamation, and infrastructural projects upon which later dynasties within emerging Nepali states built upon centuries up to the modern era. Temporal and Satial Scale Most historians trace the Kirati imperial span across approximately 12 generations lasting over a millennium until usurpation by the Lichhavi dynasty. At its peak circa 500 BCE, these primordial kings held sway over the Indo-Nepal hills and Gangetic plains, sustaining control over trade routes and scattered settlements that coalesced gradually into a unified sphere now recorded as one of Asia’s earliest Hindu civilizations. Their capital simmered in Devapatan (present-day Gorkha) before relocating to the Kathmandu Valley basin based on interpretations of ancient texts and enduring myths. Origins and Early History Ethnolinguistic Origins Linguistic analysis links the Kirati people to Tibeto-Burman roots, sharing affinity with Rai and Limbu ethnicities populating present-day eastern Nepal and Sikkim. This supports ethnographic positions tracing Kirat migration into Kathmandu Valley circa 700 BCE from old Zhangzhung domains north of the Himalayas before exerting dominance. Culturally, totemic shamanism and animistic rituals connected to nature worship characterize early documented Kirati belief patterns. Key Discoveries Stone inscriptions and relics hinting at unnamed proto-Kirati settlements predating 500 BCE across eastern mid-hill regions of modern Nepal. Fortification remnants, iron tools, and weapons symbolically resembling Kirati tiger emblems are buried near the Kathmandu Valley dating to the suspected dynasty era. Scattered Licchavi records and Newari chronicles referencing rival "Kirata" tribes ruling Kathmandu Valley before the Licchavi dynasty. Ornate carvings and architecture foundations exhibiting possible Tibeto-Burmese stylistic influences underneath Kathmandu palaces. Syncretic statues and motifs fusing animist nature worship with early Tantric Hindu themes traced to the dynasty period.
@@RameshYadav-d1r The Kirat dynasty represents the first recognized empire of the Nepali chronology, ruling the Kathmandu Valley and surrounding regions from roughly 800 BCE to 300 CE. While details regarding specific rulers and events remain sparse, this critical early kingdom laid the foundations for centralized governance, socio-cultural amalgamation, and infrastructural projects upon which later dynasties within emerging Nepali states built upon centuries up to the modern era. Temporal and Satial Scale Most historians trace the Kirati imperial span across approximately 12 generations lasting over a millennium until usurpation by the Lichhavi dynasty. At its peak circa 500 BCE, these primordial kings held sway over the Indo-Nepal hills and Gangetic plains, sustaining control over trade routes and scattered settlements that coalesced gradually into a unified sphere now recorded as one of Asia’s earliest Hindu civilizations. Their capital simmered in Devapatan (present-day Gorkha) before relocating to the Kathmandu Valley basin based on interpretations of ancient texts and enduring myths. Origins and Early History Ethnolinguistic Origins Linguistic analysis links the Kirati people to Tibeto-Burman roots, sharing affinity with Rai and Limbu ethnicities populating present-day eastern Nepal and Sikkim. This supports ethnographic positions tracing Kirat migration into Kathmandu Valley circa 700 BCE from old Zhangzhung domains north of the Himalayas before exerting dominance. Culturally, totemic shamanism and animistic rituals connected to nature worship characterize early documented Kirati belief patterns. Key Discoveries Stone inscriptions and relics hinting at unnamed proto-Kirati settlements predating 500 BCE across eastern mid-hill regions of modern Nepal. Fortification remnants, iron tools, and weapons symbolically resembling Kirati tiger emblems are buried near the Kathmandu Valley dating to the suspected dynasty era. Scattered Licchavi records and Newari chronicles referencing rival "Kirata" tribes ruling Kathmandu Valley before the Licchavi dynasty. Ornate carvings and architecture foundations exhibiting possible Tibeto-Burmese stylistic influences underneath Kathmandu palaces. Syncretic statues and motifs fusing animist nature worship with early Tantric Hindu themes traced to the dynasty period.
सुसान्त भाइको पोडकास्ट हरु साहै राम्रो लाग्छ ।यस्तै पोडकास्टै माध्यमबाट पनि भाइले धेरै ज्ञानहरू आर्जन गर्नुभएको छ । अहिलेका ज्यापु समूहभित्र पर्ने पुराना किरातीहरू हुन् भन्ने जुन कुरा सरले भन्नुभयो र भाइले भन्नुभयो ।त्यसैले त भनिन्छनेवार भनेको कुनै एउटा जात होइन .नेवार भनेको एउटा समुदाय हो ।यो समुदायमा जुनसुकै जातका व्यक्तिहरू पनि हुन सक्छन् तर यहीको कला संस्कृति परम्पराहरूलाईलाई फलो गरेका हुन्छन् ।यसैको अर्को उदाहरण भनेकोअहिले नेवार समूह भित्र रहेको जोशीहरू सुदूरपश्चिमका ब्राह्मण हुन् । त्यस्तै नेवार भित्रै अहिले रहेको जातमल्लहरू पनि क्षेत्री समुदाय हुन् ।।त्यसैले नेवारलाई एउटा जातसँग मात्रै जोडेर हेर्ने हाम्रो मानसिकतालाई ठूलो बनाउन जरुरी छ।अझै अध्ययन अनुसन्धान गर्न जरूरी छ ।😊😊
seedha seedha bhan na. You have no proof of being there. Even a cavemen leaves a mark wherever he goes. Limbus have no mark in Eastern Nepal or sikkim. Just written histories during the british time. Limbus helped british to make sikkim a protectorate of British empire. The british helped them establish fake history.DNA test le prove garisakeko cha Rai, Limbu mongolia ko refugee ho Bhutia le uniharulai saran dieko ho. Sojha bhutia lai ullu banaera aile purai sikkim afno claim garisakyo
@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd The Kirat dynasty represents the first recognized empire of the Nepali chronology, ruling the Kathmandu Valley and surrounding regions from roughly 800 BCE to 300 CE. While details regarding specific rulers and events remain sparse, this critical early kingdom laid the foundations for centralized governance, socio-cultural amalgamation, and infrastructural projects upon which later dynasties within emerging Nepali states built upon centuries up to the modern era. Temporal and Satial Scale Most historians trace the Kirati imperial span across approximately 12 generations lasting over a millennium until usurpation by the Lichhavi dynasty. At its peak circa 500 BCE, these primordial kings held sway over the Indo-Nepal hills and Gangetic plains, sustaining control over trade routes and scattered settlements that coalesced gradually into a unified sphere now recorded as one of Asia’s earliest Hindu civilizations. Their capital simmered in Devapatan (present-day Gorkha) before relocating to the Kathmandu Valley basin based on interpretations of ancient texts and enduring myths. Origins and Early History Ethnolinguistic Origins Linguistic analysis links the Kirati people to Tibeto-Burman roots, sharing affinity with Rai and Limbu ethnicities populating present-day eastern Nepal and Sikkim. This supports ethnographic positions tracing Kirat migration into Kathmandu Valley circa 700 BCE from old Zhangzhung domains north of the Himalayas before exerting dominance. Culturally, totemic shamanism and animistic rituals connected to nature worship characterize early documented Kirati belief patterns. Key Discoveries Stone inscriptions and relics hinting at unnamed proto-Kirati settlements predating 500 BCE across eastern mid-hill regions of modern Nepal. Fortification remnants, iron tools, and weapons symbolically resembling Kirati tiger emblems are buried near the Kathmandu Valley dating to the suspected dynasty era. Scattered Licchavi records and Newari chronicles referencing rival "Kirata" tribes ruling Kathmandu Valley before the Licchavi dynasty. Ornate carvings and architecture foundations exhibiting possible Tibeto-Burmese stylistic influences underneath Kathmandu palaces. Syncretic statues and motifs fusing animist nature worship with early Tantric Hindu themes traced to the dynasty period.
@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fdतैले नेपाल को नागरिकता पाउनु भन्दा ८००० बर्स अघि नेपाल मा राइ लिम्बु हरु को बस्ती थियो, जुन बेला तेरो जात के हो भनेर नमुना पनि बनेको थियेन भाइ
@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd over smart condescending attitude Ur showing as U r in every comment. Let me answer your profound question so I can satisfy your quest of knowing great kirati culture hence U can sleep well or increased insomnia. We kirati are nature worshipper. We are here and enjoying life without any temple or monument or any physical structure. We still practice. Come east U will be amazed how kirati culture is running today without any physical infrastructure. People like U made us to make sumina paruhang idol but still that is not kirati philosophy. So don't be cocksure about urself.
@@ranjanrai6349 you are 100% right. Ranjitamagar and SandeshKushwaha seem to have a mission to falsely prove Kirat history wrong ( don't know why- may be sponsored!) They don't seem to know well-established and well- accepted history of Nepal. They don't know king Prthibi Narayan Shah had recognised Rai, Limbu as Kiratis and provided them special autonomy ( Kipat ) in east Nepal long before British welcoming Rai, Limbu to Darjeeling and Sikkim. They have no idea about ancient Gopal Raj Banshawali.
चाम्लिंग सर को सम्पूर्ण अभिव्यक्ति एकदमै यथार्थ र विज्ञान मा आधारित लाग्यो र विश्वासनिय लाग्यो । जब की हामी बड़ि कथा बाचक हरू को कथा लाई नै विश्वास गरिने चलन छ। सुशांत ज्यू र भगिराज ज्यू लाई धन्यवाद
किरातहरू, जो इतिहासका केही पाठहरूमा भील पनि भनिन्छ, प्राचीन काठमाडौं उपत्यकाका वासिन्दा थिए। यद्यपि, विभिन्न सामाजिक-राजनीतिक दबाबहरूको कारण, तिनीहरूलाई बसाइँ सर्न बाध्य पारियो। किरातहरूको ठूलो भाग काठमाडौंको पश्चिमतिर भागेर खसहरूसँग मिसियो। त्यस्तैगरी, किरातहरूको अर्को खण्ड पूर्वतर्फ बसाइँ सर्दै पूर्वी नेपाल र असमको क्षेत्रमा बसोबास गर्न पुग्यो। असममा, तिनीहरूले स्थानीय इन्डो-आर्यन असमिया जनसंख्यासँग अन्तरमिश्रण गरे, जसले तिनीहरूको सांस्कृतिक र भाषिक विरासतलाई अझै मिलायो। यस संयोजनले असमिया र नेपाली (खस) भाषाहरू बीचका साझा भाषिक र सांस्कृतिक विशेषताहरूमा योगदान पुर्यायो, जसले तिनीहरूको इन्डो-आर्यन सम्बन्धलाई प्रकाश पार्छ। यो संगै, भील भाषासँगका समानताहरूले पनि नेपाल र भारतका विभिन्न भागहरूबीचको ऐतिहासिक र सांस्कृतिक अन्तरक्रियालाई झल्काउँछ। राई र लिम्बुहरू मूलतः मंगोलिया क्षेत्रबाट उत्पन्न भएका थिए। ७औं शताब्दीमा मंगोलियाबाट सिचुवान क्षेत्रमा बसाइँ सरेका थिए। मंगोल आक्रमणको कारणले गर्दा १३औं शताब्दीमा तिनीहरू उत्तर तिब्बततर्फ लागे। उत्तर तिब्बतबाट, अन्ततः तिनीहरू १६औं शताब्दीमा पूर्वी नेपाल र सिक्किमतर्फ शरणार्थीका रूपमा आइपुगे। त्यहाँ उनीहरूलाई लेप्चा भूस्वामीहरू र सेन राजाहरूले शरण दिएका थिए। इमान सिंह चेम्जोङको प्रभाव: दार्जिलिङका प्रमुख इतिहासकार इमान सिंह चेम्जोङको प्रयासले यस कथालाई महत्वपूर्ण मोड दियो। चेम्जोङले किरात जातिको पहिचानलाई पुनः परिभाषित गर्न महत्त्वपूर्ण भूमिका खेले। उनले "किरात" शब्दलाई मूल किरातहरू मात्र नभएर राई र लिम्बु समुदायहरूलाई समावेश गर्न प्रयोग गरे। यो पुनःपरिभाषा रणनीतिक थियो, विशेषगरी सिक्किममा राजनीतिक शक्ति र प्रभाव हासिल गर्न यी समूहहरूलाई एकीकृत गर्नको लागि। चेम्जोङको कामले यी समूहहरूको राजनीतिक जुटानमा महत्त्वपूर्ण भूमिका खेले, जसले सिक्किममा चोग्याल सरकारको चुनौती र अन्ततः पल्टाउने प्रयास गर्यो। किरात पहिचानलाई समेटेर, चेम्जोङ र उनका समकालीनहरूले एकीकृत मोर्चा बनाउन सक्षम भए, तर यसले किरात जातिको मौलिक इतिहासलाई मेटाउन र परिमार्जन गर्नको लागि नेतृत्व गर्यो। ऐतिहासिक मेटावटको पछाडिका राजनीतिक उद्देश्यहरू: किरात जातिको मौलिक इतिहासको मेटावट केवल ऐतिहासिक पुनर्व्याख्याको अनपेक्षित उपोत्पाद मात्र नभएर राजनीतिक उद्देश्यद्वारा प्रेरित योजनाबद्ध कार्य थियो। किरातको परिभाषालाई अन्य जातीय समूहहरूलाई समेटेर व्यापक बनाउने क्रममा, दार्जिलिङका इतिहासकारहरूले क्षेत्रको सामाजिक-राजनीतिक परिदृश्यमा थप शक्ति हासिल गर्न खोजे। नेपाली भाषा, असमिया भाषा, र भील भाषाहरू बीचका समानताहरूले दुवै भाषाको इन्डो-आर्यन सम्बन्धलाई पुष्टि गर्छन्। किरात (भील) मानिसहरू काठमाडौं उपत्यकाबाट लिच्छविहरूको आक्रमणबाट भागेर खस र असमिया जनतासँग मिसिएको हुँदा, यी भाषाहरूमा धेरै साझा शब्दावली, व्याकरणिक संरचना, र उच्चारणका विशेषताहरू छन्। उदाहरणका लागि, असमिया र नेपाली भाषामा प्रयोग हुने धेरै शब्दहरू र तिनीहरूको उच्चारण शैली एकअर्कासँग मेल खान्छ। यसले भाषिक समानताहरूले किरात जातिको इन्डो-आर्यन जरा र तिनीहरूको सांस्कृतिक अन्तरक्रियालाई देखाउँछ।
यो कुरा मलाई पनि साचो लाग्छ अहिले आएर पृथ्वी नारायण साहले गोरखनाथ बाबाको आसिर्बादले भौगोलिक एकिकरणको सपना देखे अनि सुरुआत र तयारी गरे अनि बङ्शु गुरुङ्ग, शिकारी गुरुङ्ग जस्ता योद्दाले एकिकरणमा प्रमुख भुमिका खेले ! एकिकरण गर्दै जादा पुर्बका राईहरुले अबरोध गरेकोले कल्पना नगरेको, तमु भाषा नजान्ने पुर्बको गुरुङ्ग बस्ती रुम्जाटारमा पृथी नारायण साह, भाइ बहादुर साह .. राजाहरुले राई लिम्बुहरुलाई पश्चिम तिर लडाई गर्न आउन रोक्न त्यहा बस्ती बसाईएको हो भन्ने भनाई अहिले आएर पनि राई लिम्बू ब्रोहरुको नेपाल देश हेर्ने दृस्टीकोण हेर्दा यो कुरा युक्ती सङ्ग्त लाग्छ!
During the colonial period, the British strategically brought a significant number of Limbus to Darjeeling. This move was primarily aimed at maintaining a balance of power in the region and keeping a check on the Sikkimese and the Gorkhas. The British and the Limbus together had a profound impact on the political and social dynamics of the area, often undermining the established histories and authorities of the Gorkha and Sikkim kingdoms. The Erasure of Indigenous Histories The actions of the Limbus, supported by the British, were particularly detrimental to the histories of the Lepcha and Bhutia communities, the original rulers of Sikkim, and the Khas Aryans and Newars, the ruling communities of Nepal. The Limbus, leveraging their strategic position, engaged in activities that led to the significant erasure of these communities' historical narratives. This erasure was so extensive that for many years, the rich histories of the Lepchas, Bhutias, Khas Aryans, and Newars were largely forgotten. Rediscovery Through Archaeology In recent times, archaeological discoveries have begun to uncover the long-buried histories of these communities. Excavations have revealed substantial evidence of the Khas Aryan presence in Nepal, such as the remains of the Kakre Bihar and Khas Malla Durbars, as well as the Chand Durbar and Simrangarh sites. Inscriptions in the Nepali language dating back 1,200 years, and the remnants of King Bhupal Mahipal's 1,400-year-old durbar, have further substantiated the rich historical tapestry of the Khas Aryans. The Sen Thakuris, who ruled over Eastern Nepal for over 600 years, have also left behind numerous forts and palaces, such as the Makwanpur Gadi forts, Udayapur forts, and Bijaypur Durbar. These sites serve as tangible proof of their long-standing reign, extending into present-day Sikkim. The Limbus and Mongolian DNA Genetic studies have shown that the Limbus possess a high amount of Mongolian DNA, distinguishing them from other Mongoloid groups in South Asia. This genetic heritage supports the historical narrative that the Limbus, along with the Rais, migrated from the Sichuan province in China to Northern Tibet during the Mongol conquests. From there, they moved to Nepal in the 17th century, seeking refuge with the Sen kings of Nepal and the Chogyals of Sikkim. Historical Manipulations by the Limbus The Limbus were among the first Nepali groups to document their history, often writing it in a manner that favored their perspectives and interests. This has led to accusations of bias and misinformation. Historical accounts penned by the Limbus in the 1900s have been challenged and debunked through recent archaeological findings, which have unearthed significant evidence of the Khas Malla and other ancient kingdoms. Despite these findings, there remains a conspicuous lack of archaeological evidence supporting the long-term historical presence of the Limbus in Nepal, such as palaces, inscriptions, or other significant sites. The interplay between the British, the Limbus, and the indigenous communities of Eastern Nepal and Sikkim has had long-lasting effects on the region's historical narrative. While the Limbus played a crucial role during the colonial period, their actions, supported by the British, led to the suppression and erasure of the histories of other significant groups. Today, ongoing archaeological discoveries are gradually restoring these lost narratives, providing a more balanced and comprehensive understanding of the region's rich and diverse history.
@ranjitamagar-ye1hv I don't know timi Kun chai ko theory ghokera ayera ya comment box ma spam haniraxau. You must be from other side of Nepal (India). Ma ni history kei student ho. You cannot rewrite the history and be delusional whatsoever. Can't change the fact by spamming the comment sections.
@@pacman3879 usle sabai kura proof ko adhar vneko cha. Kirat le Kathmandu ma raj garthyo re vneko adhar ma Hamile pataune prne? Proof khai? Durbar khai? Murti? Documented sila lekh? Euta brick dhari vetidaina, tyo tah mero jiju bajey ko soon ko hatti thiyo re vneko jasto kura vaigoni
@@pratapkhas579 Stone inscriptions and relics hinting at unnamed proto-Kirati settlements predating 500 BCE across eastern mid-hill regions of modern Nepal. Fortification remnants, iron tools, and weapons symbolically resembling Kirati tiger emblems are buried near the Kathmandu Valley dating to the suspected dynasty era. Scattered Licchavi records and Newari chronicles referencing rival "Kirata" tribes ruling Kathmandu Valley before the Licchavi dynasty. Ornate carvings and architecture foundations exhibiting possible Tibeto-Burmese stylistic influences underneath Kathmandu palaces. Syncretic statues and motifs fusing animist nature worship with early Tantric Hindu themes traced to the dynasty period.
The podcast missed mentioning the primary rulers of the valley, Gopal Bansi and Mahespal Bansi, which would have added valuable information for viewers. Nevertheless, I found the podcast highly enjoyable. It's crucial to prioritize such enriching content in our country's podcasts instead of focusing on gossip and fake superficial lifestyles. I hope future podcasts continue in this informative vein. I particularly admire the presenter's eagerness to delve into ancient history. As the series progresses, I hope to see spirituality explored further, weaving its insights into the narrative. This would elevate the podcast to explore not only historical facts but also deeper cultural and spiritual dimensions. 🙏
I don´t know ...history is right or wrong but I like this kind of stories...such a wonderful podcast.❤❤❤ One thing I am not a historian but..the ` di´ word is from magar language which means water..
@ranjitamagar-ye1hvit's not just oral histories . There is also written history which is written in gopal raj vamsavali(a manuscript which was written in 14th century. Mind you this is before british ) and also in mahabarat there is mention of kirat dynasty it is said that the king of kirat fought along with the kauravs. So stop spreading false information. I have also read your others comments regarding darjeeling. Let me tell we Rai and limbu of nepal never said we were the ruler of Darjeeling. And if the rais and limbus of darjeeling says so they don't know their history.
@@jeremyrai3850 Yeah the Rai, Limbu and other Nepali speaking communities in Sikkim have been playing very dirty identity politics for a long time. They don't know their real history and all those who pride themselves as Indian Gorkha have learnt fake histories about Gorkha people from their Indian school curriculums.
@@jeremyrai3850 you are 100% right. Ranjitamagar and SandeshKushwaha seem to have a mission to falsely prove Kirat history wrong. They don't seem to know well-established and accepted history of Nepal. They don't know king Prthibi Narayan Shah had recognised Rai, Limbu as Kiratis and provided them special autonomy ( Kipat ) long before British welcoming Rai, Limbu to Darjeeling and Sikkim.
what a great remark regarding knowledge and our knowledge is not in writing but in tales or practical versions. I hope this spreading of knowledge in history telling through podcast itself Is breaking the hegemony of the written culture. great going Sushant and team for this effort. thank you Dr. Chamling expect more of the oral history...
I,m Asim Kumar Pradhan from India , ur discussion with sh. Chamling ji about the Kiraties history was very knowledgeable n seems near to the facts. However, Archeology surveys yet needs more to discover the actual history of Kathmandu velly n its beginning original inhabitants .Thanks.
The Rais and Limbus were initially primitive tribes in eastern Nepal, often described as nomadic and lacking a structured society. However, their fortunes changed dramatically under British rule. The British, seeking reliable local allies, favored the Rais and Limbus, who in return supported British geopolitical interests, particularly in Sikkim. This patronage allowed the Rais and Limbus to gain significant socio-political leverage, which they used to further their own agendas. Conflict Between Lepchas and Bhutias in Sikkim The Lepchas and Bhutias have long been the primary ethnic groups in Sikkim. The Bhutia Chogyals ruled Sikkim for centuries, with the Lepchas playing a significant role in the kingdom's cultural and social fabric. However, the arrival and subsequent rise of the Rais and Limbus disrupted this balance. The Rais and Limbus employed a strategy of divide and rule, learned from their British allies. They fabricated narratives suggesting a shared origin between the Lepchas and Limbus, aiming to weaken the unity between Lepchas and Bhutias. By claiming that Lepchas and Limbus were the same people, they sought to undermine Bhutia dominance and create an ethnic rift. Moreover, the Limbus introduced a writing script purportedly derived from Tibetan and Lepcha sources, furthering their claim to a shared heritage with the Lepchas. The Bhutias, being relatively isolated mountain people, struggled to counter these sophisticated manipulations. The resulting confusion and mistrust between the Lepchas and Bhutias weakened their collective resistance against external influences, including those of the Rais and Limbus. Instigating Conflict Between Chettri and Brahmin in Nepal In Nepal, the Rais and Limbus attempted to exploit existing social hierarchies to create discord between the Chettri and Brahmin communities. The Chettris and Brahmins, both belonging to the Khas Arya group, have traditionally held significant political and social influence in Nepal. By fabricating stories and spreading rumors, the Rais and Limbus aimed to pit these two communities against each other. This divide-and-rule tactic involved highlighting and exacerbating minor disputes and differences, thus fostering a climate of mistrust and rivalry. The objective was to destabilize the socio-political cohesion of the dominant groups, thereby creating opportunities for the Rais and Limbus to assert their influence. Creating Division Between Shrestha and Maharjan The Shrestha and Maharjan communities, integral to the Newar society of Kathmandu Valley, were not immune to the machinations of the Rais and Limbus. By manipulating historical narratives and exploiting social tensions, the Rais and Limbus sought to create divisions within the Newar community. The Shresthas, typically of higher social status, and the Maharjans, primarily involved in agriculture and trade, were targeted through a campaign of misinformation and fabricated grievances. This strategy aimed to weaken the unity of the Newar community, making it easier for the Rais and Limbus to advance their interests.
शरणार्थी लिम्बू: सिचुवानदेखि उत्तर तिब्बतसम्म: उत्तर तिब्बतदेखि नेपाल र सिक्किमसम्मका :लिम्बूहरूको यात्रा सिचुवान प्रान्तबाट सुरु हुन्छ, जहाँ उनीहरू मूल रूपमा बसोबास गर्थे। १३ औं शताब्दीमा मंगोलहरूको आक्रमणका कारण उनीहरू आफ्नो मातृभूमि छोडेर भाग्न बाध्य भए। मंगोलहरूले सिचुवानमा ठूलो आतंक मच्चाए, जसका कारण लिम्बूहरू उत्तर तिब्बततर्फ लागे। उत्तर तिब्बतमा उनीहरूले केही समय बिताए र त्यहाँका सांस्कृतिक र भौगोलिक परिवेशसँग घुलमिल भए। उत्तर तिब्बतदेखि नेपाल र सिक्किमसम्म उत्तर तिब्बतमा बसोबास गर्न पनि कठिन भइरहेको अवस्थामा, लिम्बूहरू फेरि बसाइँ सर्न बाध्य भए। १६ औं शताब्दीको अन्त्यतिर उनीहरू दक्षिणतर्फ लागे र नेपाल तथा सिक्किममा आएर बसोबास गर्न थाले। नेपालको पूर्वी भाग र सिक्किमको विभिन्न स्थानमा उनीहरूले नयाँ जीवन सुरु गरे। नेपालमा, लिम्बूहरूलाई सेन राजाहरू र लेप्चा आदिवासीहरूले शरण दिए। सेन राजाहरूले उनीहरूलाई सुरक्षा प्रदान गरे र उनीहरूको बसोबासका लागि भूमि उपलब्ध गराए। यस्तै, सिक्किममा पनि चोग्यालहरूले उनीहरूलाई स्वागत गरे र उनीहरूलाई बसोबासका लागि सहुलियत प्रदान गरे।आनुवंशिक अध्ययनहरूले राई र लिम्बूहरूको उत्पत्तिको ठोस प्रमाण प्रदान गर्दछ। यी अध्ययनहरूले यी समुदायहरूमा मंगोलियन र उत्तरी चिनियाँ डीएनएको महत्वपूर्ण अनुपात देखाउँछन्, जसले तिनीहरूलाई भारतीय उपमहाद्वीपका अन्य तिब्बती-बर्मन समूहहरूबाट अलग गर्दछ। उनीहरूको सांस्कृतिक अभ्यास, भाषा, र परम्पराहरू पनि उत्तरी चीन र मंगोलियामा पाइनेहरूको जस्तो देखिन्छ, पूर्वी नेपालका स्वदेशी संस्कृतिहरूको भन्दा।किरात सम्बन्धको निर्माण जबकि किरात राजवंश अस्तित्वमा थियो, राई र लिम्बूहरूलाई यस प्राचीन वंशसँग जोड्ने कुनै ठोस पुरातात्विक वा ऐतिहासिक प्रमाण छैन। बरु, उनीहरूले यस क्षेत्रमा स्वदेशीको रूपमा दावा गर्न किरातसँग सम्बन्ध निर्माण गरे। प्रमुख लिम्बू इतिहासकार इमान सिंह चेम्जोङले किरात विरासतको विचारलाई बढावा दिने क्रममा यस निर्माणमा महत्वपूर्ण भूमिका खेले, जसमा राई र लिम्बूहरू समावेश थिए। यद्यपि, यो कथा लेप्चा, भुटिया, नेवार, र खस आर्य जनताको इतिहासलाई प्रायः ओझेलमा पारिदिन्थ्यो। चेम्जोङका लेखन र किरात पहिचानको राजनीतिक संगठित अभियानले अन्य जातीय इतिहासहरूको ओझेलमा योगदान पुर्यायो। ऐतिहासिक पाठ्यक्रमहरू र शैक्षिक पाठ्यक्रमहरूले किरात कथालाई जोड दिन थाले, लेप्चा र भुटियाको सिक्किममा, र नेपालमा नेवार र खस आर्यको स्थापित इतिहासहरूको खर्चमा। चेम्जोङको कामले सुदृढ पारेको किरात पहिचानको जोडले क्षेत्रीय इतिहासको पुनर्लेखन गर्यो, जसले यी अन्य समूहहरूको योगदान र विरासतलाई न्यूनतम बनायो। राई र लिम्बूहरूद्वारा किरात प्रभुत्वको लागि पुरातात्विक प्रमाणको अभाव राई र लिम्बूहरूको दावी गरिएको किरात पहिचानको एक महत्वपूर्ण आलोचना भनेको पूर्वी नेपालमा उनीहरूको दीर्घकालीन प्रभुत्वलाई समर्थन गर्ने पुरातात्विक प्रमाणहरूको अभाव हो। सेन ठाकुरी र खस मल्ल राज्यका किल्ला, दरबार, र शिलालेख जस्ता ठोस अवशेषहरूको विपरीत, राई र लिम्बूहरूमा जोडिएको किरात सभ्यतासँग सम्बन्धित पुरातात्विक स्थलहरू छैनन्। यो प्रमाणको अभावले उनीहरूको प्राचीन र स्वदेशी सम्बन्धको दावीको ऐतिहासिक सटीकतामा प्रश्न उठाउँछ।
V Interesting to know about one’s prehistoric background! If there was English subtitle, international crowd would also get to know about ancient civilisation as ours!
The Kirat dynasty represents the first recognized empire of the Nepali chronology, ruling the Kathmandu Valley and surrounding regions from roughly 800 BCE to 300 CE. While details regarding specific rulers and events remain sparse, this critical early kingdom laid the foundations for centralized governance, socio-cultural amalgamation, and infrastructural projects upon which later dynasties within emerging Nepali states built upon centuries up to the modern era. Temporal and Satial Scale Most historians trace the Kirati imperial span across approximately 12 generations lasting over a millennium until usurpation by the Lichhavi dynasty. At its peak circa 500 BCE, these primordial kings held sway over the Indo-Nepal hills and Gangetic plains, sustaining control over trade routes and scattered settlements that coalesced gradually into a unified sphere now recorded as one of Asia’s earliest Hindu civilizations. Their capital simmered in Devapatan (present-day Gorkha) before relocating to the Kathmandu Valley basin based on interpretations of ancient texts and enduring myths. Origins and Early History Ethnolinguistic Origins Linguistic analysis links the Kirati people to Tibeto-Burman roots, sharing affinity with Rai and Limbu ethnicities populating present-day eastern Nepal and Sikkim. This supports ethnographic positions tracing Kirat migration into Kathmandu Valley circa 700 BCE from old Zhangzhung domains north of the Himalayas before exerting dominance. Culturally, totemic shamanism and animistic rituals connected to nature worship characterize early documented Kirati belief patterns. Key Discoveries Stone inscriptions and relics hinting at unnamed proto-Kirati settlements predating 500 BCE across eastern mid-hill regions of modern Nepal. Fortification remnants, iron tools, and weapons symbolically resembling Kirati tiger emblems are buried near the Kathmandu Valley dating to the suspected dynasty era. Scattered Licchavi records and Newari chronicles referencing rival "Kirata" tribes ruling Kathmandu Valley before the Licchavi dynasty. Ornate carvings and architecture foundations exhibiting possible Tibeto-Burmese stylistic influences underneath Kathmandu palaces. Syncretic statues and motifs fusing animist nature worship with early Tantric Hindu themes traced to the dynasty period.
कमेन्ट हरु पढ्दा कम्तिमा 3 नाम बाट ( सायद नक्कली आइ डि ) लगातार लिम्बु, राई को इतिहास नकार्ने अनि उनि हरुलाई भर्खरै आएका बनाउने गलत, कपोकल्पित कमेन्ट हरु जता ततै देखिन्छ! तिनी हरुको उद्द्यश्य बुझ्न गारो छैन - सोशल मिडिया मा यस्ता भाइरस हरु प्रसस्त भेटिन्छन - सबै जना होशियार हुनु होला!
Kathmandu उपत्यका मा चल्ने संस्कृति हरुले पनि इतिहास को झल्को दिन्छ। खेती संस्कृति, धान र वर्षा, आसाम का मछिन्द्रनाथ, काठमाडौंं का नाथ सम्प्रदाय, नाग सप्रदाय सबै इतिहासले संस्कृति बनाई आजसम्म निरन्तर चलिनाएको छ।
45:00 - Newari word has been converted into nepali word by adding "La" like Nepa - Nepal, Thabahi - thamel, Chabahi - chabel , CHYASA (newari meaning of 800, chya means 8, sa means 100) - Chyasal ...
@@theObliviousone-jf6yn even newari months have "la" in end like kaula, Gunla, Kachala but i don't think words like Nepal, Chyasal dates back to 9th century & introduced by Tibetians,..still i would be interested if i get reference of this
@@theObliviousone-jf6yn what do you mean chinese ? Can you clarify ? Which ethnic group ? Manchu, Han ,Xi, Tibetian... ? What do you mean Chinese Is it same shit as Indians peddle as Hindu ?
I’m regular viewers of your all episodes. I appreciate this shows. Personally I would like to request to invite Botonist/ social researcher Kamal Maden as a guest.
नेपाल र सिक्किमका लिम्बू र राई समुदायहरू लामो समयदेखि प्राचीन किरात मानिसहरूसँग जोडिएका छन्। यद्यपि, तिनीहरूको प्राचीनतामा व्यापक विश्वास भए तापनि, यस दावीलाई समर्थन गर्न पुरातात्विक प्रमाणहरूको अभाव छ। वास्तवमा, उपलब्ध तथ्याङ्कले यी समुदायहरू प्राचीन किराताहरू होइनन् तर मङ्गोल विजयको समयमा चीनबाट बसाइँ सरेका र पछि नेपाल र सिक्किममा शरण लिएका शरणार्थीहरू हुन् भन्ने देखाउँछ। लिम्बस र राइसको पुरातनता विरुद्धको प्राथमिक तर्कहरू मध्ये एउटा लिखित अभिलेख र पुरातात्विक स्थलहरूको अभाव हो जुन उनीहरूले यस क्षेत्रमा बसोबास गरेको विश्वास गरिएको समय अवधिको हो। यसको विपरित, त्यहाँ धेरै किल्लाहरू, दरबारहरू र शिलालेखहरू छन् जसले पूर्वी नेपाल र सिक्किममा सेन ठाकुरिस र भुटियाहरू (चोग्यालहरू) को उपस्थितिलाई प्रमाणित गर्दछ, जुन 600 वर्ष भन्दा पुरानो हो। यसबाहेक, लिम्बस र राइसको सांस्कृतिक र भाषिक अभ्यासहरू किरात मानिसहरूसँग भन्दा मङ्गोलियन मानिसहरूसँग बढी नजिक छन्। उदाहरणका लागि, लिम्बसमा मङ्गोलियन डिएनएको महत्त्वपूर्ण मात्रा हुन्छ, जसले तिनीहरूलाई दक्षिण एसियाका अन्य मङ्गोलोइड समूहहरूबाट फरक पार्छ। यो आनुवंशिक सम्बन्ध एक बलियो सङ्केत हो कि तिनीहरू यस क्षेत्रका आदिवासी होइनन् तर मङ्गोल विजयको समयमा चीनबाट बसाइँ सरेका थिए। 17 औँ शताब्दीमा चीनबाट उत्तरी तिब्बत र त्यसपछि नेपालमा लिम्बस र रइसको बसाइँसराइ ऐतिहासिक अभिलेखहरूमा राम्रोसँग दस्तावेज गरिएको छ। उनीहरूले नेपालका सेन राजाहरू र सिक्किमका चोग्यालहरूमा शरण लिए, जसले उनीहरूलाई उनीहरूको सैन्य सेवा र सांस्कृतिक अभ्यासहरूको बदलामा सुरक्षा र भूमि प्रदान गरे। सारांशमा, उपलब्ध प्रमाणहरूले सुझाव दिन्छ कि लिम्बस र रायहरू प्राचीन किराताहरू होइनन् तर शरणार्थीहरू हुन् जसले मङ्गोल विजयको समयमा चीनबाट बसाइँ सरे र पछि नेपाल र सिक्किममा शरण लिए। तिनीहरूको सांस्कृतिक र भाषिक अभ्यासहरू, साथै तिनीहरूको आनुवंशिक बनावट, किरात मानिसहरूसँग भन्दा मङ्गोलियन मानिसहरूसँग बढी नजिकबाट जोडिएको छ। तसर्थ, यी समुदायहरू वरपरको ऐतिहासिक कथाको पुनर्मूल्यांकन गर्न र तिनीहरूको वास्तविक उत्पत्ति र आप्रवासनलाई चिन्न आवश्यक छ।
The Kirat Movement by Iman Singh Chemjong: A Baseless and Spiteful Endeavor The Kirat movement, initiated by Iman Singh Chemjong, has long been celebrated as a unifying force among the ethnic groups of Eastern Nepal. However, a closer examination of historical and archaeological evidence reveals that this movement was based on a fabrication, with no substantial historical basis to support its claims. Instead, it was a spiteful and divisive campaign aimed at the Bhutia community. This essay argues that the Kirat movement was founded on falsehoods and had no legitimate grounding in the history of the region. The Fabrication of the Kirat Identity The term "Kirat" was strategically adopted by Iman Singh Chemjong to create a sense of unity among the Limbus, Rais, and Yakkhas. However, this identity lacks historical authenticity. Before Chemjong's intervention, these groups did not collectively identify as Kirats. The word "Kirat" itself was first used in this context by Rana Bahadur Shah and not by the indigenous communities themselves. Prithvi Narayan Shah referred to the Limbus as descendants of Yehang, not as Kirats. This indicates that the Kirat identity was an artificial construct, imposed for political purposes rather than a reflection of a genuine historical lineage. Lack of Archaeological Evidence The historical narrative promoted by the Kirat movement claims that the Limbus and Rais are ancient inhabitants of Eastern Nepal, integral to the region's history. However, there is a glaring lack of archaeological evidence to support this claim. Unlike the well-documented presence of the Sen Thakuri dynasty and the Bhutia Chogyals, which is evidenced by numerous forts, palaces, and inscriptions such as those at Makawanpur Gadi, Udayapur Forts, and Bijaypur Durbar, there are no corresponding sites that can be attributed to Limbu or Rai rule. No inscriptions, palaces, or forts bear witness to a long-term Limbu presence or governance in Eastern Nepal. This absence of material evidence starkly contrasts with the rich archaeological heritage left by other ruling dynasties in the region, highlighting the lack of historical basis for the Kirat movement's claims. Genetic and Historical Discrepancies Genetic studies have shown that the Limbus and Rais possess a high proportion of Mongolian DNA, distinguishing them from other Tibeto-Burman ethnic groups in South Asia. This genetic evidence suggests that these communities migrated from the Sichuan province in China to northern Tibet during the Mongol conquests and later settled in Eastern Nepal in the 17th century. This migration narrative contradicts the Kirat movement's assertion of an ancient and indigenous lineage in Eastern Nepal. Instead, it positions the Limbus and Rais as relatively recent arrivals who sought refuge in the region under the patronage of local rulers, rather than as ancient inhabitants with a long-standing historical presence. A Spiteful Movement Against the Bhutia Community The Kirat movement was not merely an attempt to rewrite history; it was also a targeted campaign against the Bhutia community. Chemjong's efforts to foster a unified Kirat identity were driven by a desire to incite resistance and revolt against the Bhutia-dominated Kingdom of Sikkim. This movement was rooted in ethnic animosity and aimed at undermining the Bhutia community's historical and political significance in the region. The rebranding of the Yakthung Mundhum to Kirat Mundhum was a deliberate attempt to erase the Bhutia community's contributions and presence. By promoting a false narrative of historical dominance, the Kirat movement sought to marginalize the Bhutias and assert an unsubstantiated claim to the region's heritage. The Kirat movement, as orchestrated by Iman Singh Chemjong, was based on a lie and lacked any legitimate historical foundation. It was a spiteful and hateful campaign against the Bhutia community, aimed at rewriting history for political purposes. The lack of archaeological evidence supporting the claims of ancient Limbu rule, coupled with genetic and historical discrepancies, underscores the falsehoods at the heart of the Kirat movement. It is crucial to critically reevaluate this narrative and recognize the true historical context of Eastern Nepal and its diverse ethnic landscape. By doing so, we can ensure a more accurate and inclusive understanding of the region's history, free from the distortions and biases perpetuated by the Kirat movement.
नेपाल र सिक्किमका लिम्बू र राई समुदायहरू लामो समयदेखि प्राचीन किरात मानिसहरूसँग जोडिएका छन्। यद्यपि, तिनीहरूको प्राचीनतामा व्यापक विश्वास भए तापनि, यस दावीलाई समर्थन गर्न पुरातात्विक प्रमाणहरूको अभाव छ। वास्तवमा, उपलब्ध तथ्याङ्कले यी समुदायहरू प्राचीन किराताहरू होइनन् तर मङ्गोल विजयको समयमा चीनबाट बसाइँ सरेका र पछि नेपाल र सिक्किममा शरण लिएका शरणार्थीहरू हुन् भन्ने देखाउँछ। लिम्बस र राइसको पुरातनता विरुद्धको प्राथमिक तर्कहरू मध्ये एउटा लिखित अभिलेख र पुरातात्विक स्थलहरूको अभाव हो जुन उनीहरूले यस क्षेत्रमा बसोबास गरेको विश्वास गरिएको समय अवधिको हो। यसको विपरित, त्यहाँ धेरै किल्लाहरू, दरबारहरू र शिलालेखहरू छन् जसले पूर्वी नेपाल र सिक्किममा सेन ठाकुरिस र भुटियाहरू (चोग्यालहरू) को उपस्थितिलाई प्रमाणित गर्दछ, जुन 600 वर्ष भन्दा पुरानो हो। यसबाहेक, लिम्बस र राइसको सांस्कृतिक र भाषिक अभ्यासहरू किरात मानिसहरूसँग भन्दा मङ्गोलियन मानिसहरूसँग बढी नजिक छन्। उदाहरणका लागि, लिम्बसमा मङ्गोलियन डिएनएको महत्त्वपूर्ण मात्रा हुन्छ, जसले तिनीहरूलाई दक्षिण एसियाका अन्य मङ्गोलोइड समूहहरूबाट फरक पार्छ। यो आनुवंशिक सम्बन्ध एक बलियो सङ्केत हो कि तिनीहरू यस क्षेत्रका आदिवासी होइनन् तर मङ्गोल विजयको समयमा चीनबाट बसाइँ सरेका थिए। 17 औँ शताब्दीमा चीनबाट उत्तरी तिब्बत र त्यसपछि नेपालमा लिम्बस र रइसको बसाइँसराइ ऐतिहासिक अभिलेखहरूमा राम्रोसँग दस्तावेज गरिएको छ। उनीहरूले नेपालका सेन राजाहरू र सिक्किमका चोग्यालहरूमा शरण लिए, जसले उनीहरूलाई उनीहरूको सैन्य सेवा र सांस्कृतिक अभ्यासहरूको बदलामा सुरक्षा र भूमि प्रदान गरे। सारांशमा, उपलब्ध प्रमाणहरूले सुझाव दिन्छ कि लिम्बस र रायहरू प्राचीन किराताहरू होइनन् तर शरणार्थीहरू हुन् जसले मङ्गोल विजयको समयमा चीनबाट बसाइँ सरे र पछि नेपाल र सिक्किममा शरण लिए। तिनीहरूको सांस्कृतिक र भाषिक अभ्यासहरू, साथै तिनीहरूको आनुवंशिक बनावट, किरात मानिसहरूसँग भन्दा मङ्गोलियन मानिसहरूसँग बढी नजिकबाट जोडिएको छ। तसर्थ, यी समुदायहरू वरपरको ऐतिहासिक कथाको पुनर्मूल्यांकन गर्न र तिनीहरूको वास्तविक उत्पत्ति र आप्रवासनलाई चिन्न आवश्यक छ।
Worth listening podcast, such a deep understanding with simplistic explanation, much respect for your works Bhogiraj, oral tradition is alive, eg Mundhum is a science and story telling passed from generations to generations from ancestors. We have rich history of cultures, stories, traitions, true Nepalese identities should be promoted and saved and be proud of it.
There is no historical evidence of kirat ruling in Kathmandu everything is based on ' re ' not a single brick of archiloglical evidence is provided by kirat community to back up their stories we can tell the gopalas we're the first kings of Kathmandu valley because of foundations of pashupati, where as kirat claim they ruled over 25000 years but not a single stone carving exist to back up their claim ruling in kathmandu and east part of nepal, let's say for once kirat ruled over whole nepal!!! Then why is not even 10 percent of population speaking kirati who ruled for thousand of years and when asked to show the evidence of kirat and limbu ruling in east they often point out to forts and durbars of vijaypur & chaudandi built by mukunda sen which is well preserved and documented, only people of Kathmandu valley were real Nepali, rest of 54 kingdoms were never been part of nepal, since gorkha unified rest of 22 24 thakuri small kingdoms plus land of terai which belong to india manang mustang which belong to Tibet khas empire, kings of gorkha has legitimate right to call it a gorkha land unlike bhutias and north eastern Indian who have stolen the name gorkha land in sikkim & dorjeeling now darjeeling
seedha seedha bhan na. You have no proof of being there. Even a cavemen leaves a mark wherever he goes. Limbus have no mark in Eastern Nepal or sikkim. Just written histories during the british time. Limbus helped british to make sikkim a protectorate of British empire. The british helped them establish fake history.DNA test le prove garisakeko cha Rai, Limbu mongolia ko refugee ho Bhutia le uniharulai saran dieko ho. Sojha bhutia lai ullu banaera aile purai sikkim afno claim garisakyo
@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd Kasaile Sikkim claim gaeko chaina muji vele. Sikim vaneko sikimese haruko ho Limbu haru ko haina. Limbu haru Limbuwan ko ho . Tya ko sabai Limbuharulai thaha cha Tineru Limbuwan current Nepal bata Rana and Shah rule ko bela migrate vako ho vanera. History trace garnu laga ani Harek Limbu ko last 2000 years ko history Nepal ko Limbuwan ma vetxas muji. Harek post ma comment garya xa basya xa.
@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd The Kirat dynasty represents the first recognized empire of the Nepali chronology, ruling the Kathmandu Valley and surrounding regions from roughly 800 BCE to 300 CE. While details regarding specific rulers and events remain sparse, this critical early kingdom laid the foundations for centralized governance, socio-cultural amalgamation, and infrastructural projects upon which later dynasties within emerging Nepali states built upon centuries up to the modern era. Temporal and Satial Scale Most historians trace the Kirati imperial span across approximately 12 generations lasting over a millennium until usurpation by the Lichhavi dynasty. At its peak circa 500 BCE, these primordial kings held sway over the Indo-Nepal hills and Gangetic plains, sustaining control over trade routes and scattered settlements that coalesced gradually into a unified sphere now recorded as one of Asia’s earliest Hindu civilizations. Their capital simmered in Devapatan (present-day Gorkha) before relocating to the Kathmandu Valley basin based on interpretations of ancient texts and enduring myths. Origins and Early History Ethnolinguistic Origins Linguistic analysis links the Kirati people to Tibeto-Burman roots, sharing affinity with Rai and Limbu ethnicities populating present-day eastern Nepal and Sikkim. This supports ethnographic positions tracing Kirat migration into Kathmandu Valley circa 700 BCE from old Zhangzhung domains north of the Himalayas before exerting dominance. Culturally, totemic shamanism and animistic rituals connected to nature worship characterize early documented Kirati belief patterns. Key Discoveries Stone inscriptions and relics hinting at unnamed proto-Kirati settlements predating 500 BCE across eastern mid-hill regions of modern Nepal. Fortification remnants, iron tools, and weapons symbolically resembling Kirati tiger emblems are buried near the Kathmandu Valley dating to the suspected dynasty era. Scattered Licchavi records and Newari chronicles referencing rival "Kirata" tribes ruling Kathmandu Valley before the Licchavi dynasty. Ornate carvings and architecture foundations exhibiting possible Tibeto-Burmese stylistic influences underneath Kathmandu palaces. Syncretic statues and motifs fusing animist nature worship with early Tantric Hindu themes traced to the dynasty period.
@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fddo you know anything about ancient Swayambhu puran which clearly mentions where kiratis went after lichchhabi's victory? Do Naga and Mizo people have archeological structures to prove they are indigenous to their homelands? Do you know anything about king Prithbi Narayan Shah's treaties with Rai Limbu? Do you know until panchayat rule east Nepal was divided into and called wallo kirat, maajh kirat and pallo kirat? Read Baburam Acharya, Janak Lal Sharma and Professor Dor Bahadur Bista to know who Rai Limbu are. By the way, why are you trying to mislead others? What is the reason behind your campaign against Rai Limbu people???
@@user2234yd Sikkim ma limbu haru le claim garera bhutia lepcha lai hairan garirako cha. I just came from that facebook page. The people of Sikkim are quite disturbed by the habit of limbus of making up history. They were claiming Eastern Nepal, Sikkim, Bhutan and Assam were craved out of LImbuwan land which is a total bullshit. Limbus came to nepal 400 years ago. That's it. DNA tests shows high mongolian admixture up to 50%
कमेन्ट हरु पढ्दा कम्तिमा 3 नाम बाट ( सायद नक्कली आइ. डि. ) लगातार लिम्बु, राई को इतिहास नकार्ने अनि उनि हरुलाई भर्खरै आएका बनाउने गलत, कपोकल्पित कमेन्ट हरु जता ततै देखिन्छ! तिनी हरुको उद्द्यश्य बुझ्न गारो छैन - सोशल मिडिया मा यस्ता भाइरस हरु प्रसस्त भेटिन्छन - सबै जना होशियार हुनु होला!
Rai ko xoroharumapani knowledge ko kami xaina vanne chai yo episode herera prasta hunx .keep going on sir keep working to kiraty culture n people... more....
Exactly bro kirat. Boudhi ra hindu hamro moulik dharma ho suru ma kirati haru ani hindi ani boudhik dharma nepal ma aako ho we should save.... euta kirati christain huna sakcha euta hindu christain ma pariwaartan huna sakcha tara euta christain bhayeko manche farkindaina eti samma ki 10 barsa ko love bhayeni christain ma convert hunna bhanyo bhaney uni harule chodidinchan... no freedom in two religion xtain ani muslim .hami harulai ekarka ma ladara desh lai xtain ra muslim desh banauna lagiraxaan
@@mandeepkatwal1270 The Limbus and Rais: Rewriting the History of Nepal's Darjeeling Hills The history of the Limbus and Rais in the Darjeeling hills has long been shrouded in myth and misinformation. Contrary to the popular narrative propagated by these groups, there is little archaeological evidence to suggest they were the ancient Kiratas who ruled over Eastern Nepal for centuries. In reality, the available evidence points to a very different story. The Sen Thakuris, not the Limbus or Rais, were the dominant rulers of Eastern Nepal for over 600 years. Their legacy is evident in the numerous forts, palaces and inscriptions that dot the landscape, such as the Makawanpur Gadi, Udayapur Forts and Bijaypur Durbar. Similarly, the Bhutias (Chogyals) established a strong presence in Sikkim during this period. Yet, through the patronage of the British in Darjeeling, the Limbus and Rais were able to gain an education and subsequently rewrite the history of the region in a way that placed them at the center. Leveraging the lack of written records among the Nepali populace, who were restricted from literacy under Rana rule, these groups crafted a mythical narrative of ancient Kirata kingships and oral traditions to bolster their claims. Tellingly, this revised history lacks any substantive archaeological or documentary evidence to back it up. Instead, it relies heavily on unverified "oral histories" that conveniently align with the Limbus' and Rais' desire to be recognized as the rightful indigenous rulers of the Darjeeling hills. Further undermining their claims is the genetic evidence, which reveals a strong Mongolian ancestry among the Limbus and Rais that distinguishes them from other Mongoloid groups in South Asia. This suggests they were likely refugees who migrated from China's Sichuan province to Tibet during the Mongol conquests, before eventually seeking shelter with the Sen kings of Nepal and the Chogyals of Sikkim in the 17th century. In essence, the Limbus and Rais, with the aid of the British, have succeeded in rewriting the history of Nepal's Darjeeling hills in a way that erases the legitimate claims of the Bhutias, Khas Aryas and Newars. This biased, Limbu-centric narrative has left historians grappling with a distorted understanding of the region's true past. Only by confronting this revisionist history with the weight of archaeological and genetic evidence can the record be set straight.
Thanks for this episode. More interesting. Ani hamro savyata ra sanskriti ka bisaya ma aru pani video liyera aanus. Coming generaration lai vannu important xa. Yesto podcast ra aru short videos bata information spark garnu helpful hunusakxa. Thanks.❤
Bhoj sir tapai ko int. Sune hamro sikxà pernali ma paribartan hunu parxa.,jadibuti ra kheti pati pasu pannxi ra jhakri,dhami ,boksi aadi dibya gyan ko bare ma adhhyan garnu parda.comments ma lekher sakidain.bhoj ra Sushant sir Dubai lai dhanyabad xa.
राय लिम्बू किराती होइनन्, सिचुवानबाट आएका शरणार्थी हुन् : इतिहासले देखाउँछ कि राय र लिम्बू समुदायहरू मूलत: सिचुवान क्षेत्रबाट आएका शरणार्थी हुन्। ७ औं शताब्दीमा यी समूहहरू मंगोलियाबाट सिचुवान क्षेत्रमा पुगे। १३ औं शताब्दीमा, मंगोल आक्रमणहरूबाट बच्न यी समूहहरू उत्तर तिब्बततिर भागे। १६ औं शताब्दीको अन्त्यतिर, तिब्बतमा भएको जातीय उथलपुथलका कारण, यी समूहहरू नेपाल र सिक्किमतिर शरणार्थीका रूपमा प्रवेश गरे। यसरी, यी समूहहरूको नेपालमा प्रवेश आदिवासी मान्यताका मापदण्डहरू अन्तर्गत ऐतिहासिक निरन्तरतामा अट्दैन। भिल: पूर्वी नेपालका वास्तविक किरातीहरू: भिल समुदायलाई पूर्वी नेपालको वास्तविक किराती मानिन्छ। जब राय र लिम्बूहरू १६ औं शताब्दीको अन्त्यतिर सिचुवानबाट शरणार्थीका रूपमा नेपाल आए, उनीहरूले भिल समुदायमाथि नरसंहार गरे। यस कारण, भिलहरू पूर्वी नेपालबाट बंगालतिर भाग्न बाध्य भए, जहाँ पहिले नै धेरै भिलहरू बसेका थिए। यसले देखाउँछ कि राय र लिम्बूहरू शरणार्थी हुन्, र तिनीहरूको आदिवासी मान्यता गलत छ। दोषपूर्ण आदिवासी मान्यता मापदण्डहरू: नेपालमा आदिवासी मान्यता प्राप्त गर्नका लागि नेपाल आदिवासी जनजाति महासंघ (NEFIN) र सरकारले अपनाएका मापदण्डहरूमा केही दोषहरू छन्। यी मापदण्डहरूले राय र लिम्बू समुदायहरूलाई कसरी अन्यायपूर्ण रूपमा आदिवासी मान्यता दिलाएका छन् भन्ने कुरालाई निम्न बुँदाहरूले स्पष्ट पार्छन्: १. ऐतिहासिक निरन्तरता: राय र लिम्बू समुदायहरूको नेपालमा ऐतिहासिक उपस्थिति सिचुवानबाट शरणार्थीका रूपमा आएका कारण मात्र भएकोले, उनीहरूको ऐतिहासिक निरन्तरता दावी कमजोर छ। तथापि, मापदण्डहरूको अस्पष्टताले गर्दा, यी समूहहरूलाई पनि आदिवासी मान्यता प्राप्त गर्न अनुमति दिएको छ। २. विशिष्ट भाषा: राय र लिम्बूहरूको आफ्नै भाषा छ, जुन विशिष्ट भाषाको मापदण्ड पूरा गर्छ। तर यो भाषा सिचुवानको सांस्कृतिक प्रभाव भएको हुन सक्छ, जसले गर्दा यो आदिवासी भाषा मान्न उपयुक्त छैन। ३. विशिष्ट संस्कृति र परम्परा: राय र लिम्बूहरूले सिचुवानबाट ल्याएका सांस्कृतिक अभ्यासहरू र परम्पराहरूलाई सुरक्षित राखेका छन्। तर, यी परम्पराहरू नेपालका आदिवासी परम्पराहरू हुन् भन्ने कुरा पुष्टि हुँदैन। ४. आत्म-पहिचान: कुनै पनि समूहले आफूलाई विशिष्ट रूपमा आत्म-पहिचान गर्न सक्छ, तर यो अत्यन्त व्यक्तिपरक मापदण्ड हो। राय र लिम्बूहरूले आफूलाई किरातीको रूपमा आत्म-पहिचान गरेका छन्, तर उनीहरूको वास्तविक उत्पत्ति सिचुवानमा रहेकोले यो आत्म-पहिचानको दावी कमजोर छ। ५. भौगोलिक पृथकता: राय र लिम्बूहरूले केही हदसम्म भौगोलिक पृथकतामा रहेर बसोबास गरेका छन्। तथापि, यो पृथकता नेपालमा आएको शरणार्थी स्थितिको परिणाम हो, न कि आदिवासी मापदण्ड अनुसार।
Kun chai paagal aaye6 feri😂😂 limbu haru Kati barsa aghi ko ho history Thaa na bhae k j paayo tei lekheko…. Itihas maa limbu ko calendar vanda purano calendar x vaney lyayera dekha ani ma manxu ki limbu sarnathi ho ki newar……kirat raajya huda newar vanne jaat pani thiyena hola sayad… ramro adyan gar….
Sushant Sir , we want to know about Tamang history ,could you please invite the guest who can deliver history of Tamang History , it would be really appreciated. Thank you ,From Uk
The collision of the two tectonic plates, one from the south and the other from the north is said to have caused the land to buckle creating the Himalayan range. The southern tectonic plate perhaps is still in the process of pushing itself under the northern plate leading to frequent earthquakes in the geological sense. I am subscribing because this is how you preserve factual history. Taking into account the assumptions, could it not be people in Kathmandu developed the rice cultivation rather than those who came from assam? Since this valley was a lake, the land was without doubt appropriate for growing rice. Assam being around Brahmaputra basin had their own rice growing land in plenty. Would they travel to Kathmandu or move over to the gangetic plains? Why would they move to Kathmandu?
I heard about the Kathmandu valley was known as the Kantipur in 18th century. It was the time of mallah dynasty. The Kathmandu Valley is surrounded by four major mountain ranges: Shivapuri, Phulchoki, Nagarjun, and Chandragiri. These hills provide natural boundaries and have historically offered protection against invasions. You mentioned Munda Tribe and I hope they are originally rooted from Jharkhand, India now earlier Bihar
नेपाल र सिक्किमका लिम्बू र राई समुदायहरू लामो समयदेखि प्राचीन किरात मानिसहरूसँग जोडिएका छन्। यद्यपि, तिनीहरूको प्राचीनतामा व्यापक विश्वास भए तापनि, यस दावीलाई समर्थन गर्न पुरातात्विक प्रमाणहरूको अभाव छ। वास्तवमा, उपलब्ध तथ्याङ्कले यी समुदायहरू प्राचीन किराताहरू होइनन् तर मङ्गोल विजयको समयमा चीनबाट बसाइँ सरेका र पछि नेपाल र सिक्किममा शरण लिएका शरणार्थीहरू हुन् भन्ने देखाउँछ। लिम्बस र राइसको पुरातनता विरुद्धको प्राथमिक तर्कहरू मध्ये एउटा लिखित अभिलेख र पुरातात्विक स्थलहरूको अभाव हो जुन उनीहरूले यस क्षेत्रमा बसोबास गरेको विश्वास गरिएको समय अवधिको हो। यसको विपरित, त्यहाँ धेरै किल्लाहरू, दरबारहरू र शिलालेखहरू छन् जसले पूर्वी नेपाल र सिक्किममा सेन ठाकुरिस र भुटियाहरू (चोग्यालहरू) को उपस्थितिलाई प्रमाणित गर्दछ, जुन 600 वर्ष भन्दा पुरानो हो। यसबाहेक, लिम्बस र राइसको सांस्कृतिक र भाषिक अभ्यासहरू किरात मानिसहरूसँग भन्दा मङ्गोलियन मानिसहरूसँग बढी नजिक छन्। उदाहरणका लागि, लिम्बसमा मङ्गोलियन डिएनएको महत्त्वपूर्ण मात्रा हुन्छ, जसले तिनीहरूलाई दक्षिण एसियाका अन्य मङ्गोलोइड समूहहरूबाट फरक पार्छ। यो आनुवंशिक सम्बन्ध एक बलियो सङ्केत हो कि तिनीहरू यस क्षेत्रका आदिवासी होइनन् तर मङ्गोल विजयको समयमा चीनबाट बसाइँ सरेका थिए। 17 औँ शताब्दीमा चीनबाट उत्तरी तिब्बत र त्यसपछि नेपालमा लिम्बस र रइसको बसाइँसराइ ऐतिहासिक अभिलेखहरूमा राम्रोसँग दस्तावेज गरिएको छ। उनीहरूले नेपालका सेन राजाहरू र सिक्किमका चोग्यालहरूमा शरण लिए, जसले उनीहरूलाई उनीहरूको सैन्य सेवा र सांस्कृतिक अभ्यासहरूको बदलामा सुरक्षा र भूमि प्रदान गरे। सारांशमा, उपलब्ध प्रमाणहरूले सुझाव दिन्छ कि लिम्बस र रायहरू प्राचीन किराताहरू होइनन् तर शरणार्थीहरू हुन् जसले मङ्गोल विजयको समयमा चीनबाट बसाइँ सरे र पछि नेपाल र सिक्किममा शरण लिए। तिनीहरूको सांस्कृतिक र भाषिक अभ्यासहरू, साथै तिनीहरूको आनुवंशिक बनावट, किरात मानिसहरूसँग भन्दा मङ्गोलियन मानिसहरूसँग बढी नजिकबाट जोडिएको छ। तसर्थ, यी समुदायहरू वरपरको ऐतिहासिक कथाको पुनर्मूल्यांकन गर्न र तिनीहरूको वास्तविक उत्पत्ति र आप्रवासनलाई चिन्न आवश्यक छ।
@ranjitamagar-ye1hv The Kirat dynasty represents the first recognized empire of the Nepali chronology, ruling the Kathmandu Valley and surrounding regions from roughly 800 BCE to 300 CE. While details regarding specific rulers and events remain sparse, this critical early kingdom laid the foundations for centralized governance, socio-cultural amalgamation, and infrastructural projects upon which later dynasties within emerging Nepali states built upon centuries up to the modern era. Temporal and Satial Scale Most historians trace the Kirati imperial span across approximately 12 generations lasting over a millennium until usurpation by the Lichhavi dynasty. At its peak circa 500 BCE, these primordial kings held sway over the Indo-Nepal hills and Gangetic plains, sustaining control over trade routes and scattered settlements that coalesced gradually into a unified sphere now recorded as one of Asia’s earliest Hindu civilizations. Their capital simmered in Devapatan (present-day Gorkha) before relocating to the Kathmandu Valley basin based on interpretations of ancient texts and enduring myths. Origins and Early History Ethnolinguistic Origins Linguistic analysis links the Kirati people to Tibeto-Burman roots, sharing affinity with Rai and Limbu ethnicities populating present-day eastern Nepal and Sikkim. This supports ethnographic positions tracing Kirat migration into Kathmandu Valley circa 700 BCE from old Zhangzhung domains north of the Himalayas before exerting dominance. Culturally, totemic shamanism and animistic rituals connected to nature worship characterize early documented Kirati belief patterns. Key Discoveries Stone inscriptions and relics hinting at unnamed proto-Kirati settlements predating 500 BCE across eastern mid-hill regions of modern Nepal. Fortification remnants, iron tools, and weapons symbolically resembling Kirati tiger emblems are buried near the Kathmandu Valley dating to the suspected dynasty era. Scattered Licchavi records and Newari chronicles referencing rival "Kirata" tribes ruling Kathmandu Valley before the Licchavi dynasty. Ornate carvings and architecture foundations exhibiting possible Tibeto-Burmese stylistic influences underneath Kathmandu palaces. Syncretic statues and motifs fusing animist nature worship with early Tantric Hindu themes traced to the dynasty period.
The Migration of Rais and Limbus from Sichuan to Tibet to Nepal in 17th Century Eastern Nepal boasts a rich tapestry of ethnicities, each adding a vibrant thread to the region's cultural identity. The Limbus and Rais are prominent among them, but unlike the Sen Thakuris whose reign is documented in stone, their origins remain shrouded in mystery. This chapter argues that the archaeological and historical evidence points towards a recent migration for the Limbus and Rais, rather than a direct connection to the ancient Kiratas, and positions them as refugees seeking refuge amidst the political turmoil of the 17th century. The archaeological landscape of Eastern Nepal presents a contrasting picture. The Sen Thakuris, who ruled for over six centuries, left behind a legacy in stone. Forts like Makawanpur, Udayapur, and Bijaypur, along with remnants in present-day Sikkim, stand as testaments to their centralized power and established kingdom. These structures not only solidify their long-standing presence but also highlight their administrative capabilities. In contrast, the archaeological footprint of the Limbus and Rais remains elusive. Their settlements, often nestled in the foothills, might not have been conducive to monumental architecture. Additionally, their cultural practices, relying heavily on oral traditions, leave a less readily apparent mark on the historical record. However, the absence of grand palaces doesn't negate their existence; it merely points towards a different mode of life. While some scholars posit a connection between the Limbus and Rais and the ancient Kiratis mentioned in Indian texts, the exact location of the Kirat remains debated. It's possible that the Kirati people represent an ancestral link, but the archaeological and historical evidence suggests a more recent arrival for the Limbus and Rais themselves. A compelling argument for a recent migration emerges from the upheaval caused by the Mongol conquests of the 13th-14th centuries. The vast displacement of populations across Asia during this period suggests that the Limbus and Rais, originally residing in Sichuan province in China or neighboring areas, might have been caught in this wave. This theory aligns with the suggestion that they first migrated to Northern Tibet before eventually reaching Nepal. The 17th century in Nepal witnessed a period of political instability with the weakening of the Malla dynasty in Kathmandu. This power vacuum in the east might have presented an opportunity for the Limbus and Rais, seeking refuge from the aftermath of the Mongol conquests, to establish themselves in the foothills. Interestingly, both the Sen kings of Eastern Nepal and the Chogyals of Sikkim employed Limbu and Rai soldiers. This suggests a period of accommodation where these newly arrived communities offered their military prowess in exchange for a safe haven. Over time, this integration process likely involved cultural exchange and adaptation, shaping the unique social fabric of Eastern Nepal that we see today.
A very good theory from him about, how the lake got drained but it is just a theory. I believe the lake draining was not a natural phenomenon but an engineering project by the inhabitants of the hills surrounding the valley. If the Egyptians could build pyramids so many thousands of years ago, why do we have to think less of our ancestors. Its a mere lake draining project. Thousands of people working under the command of either Manjushree or Krishna or any regular Joe could have done it!
Smarat Ashok kaal samma pani ktm Valley ma Sano size ko lake still exist gartyo , pokhari ma Kamal ko ful ropiyeko tiyo bhanera Chinese traveler Hang seng ko Yatra bibaran ma lekhiyeko cha.. yesko matlab ktm valley ko lake Naturally ra human interference ma bistarai sukdai gayeko ho bhanne very Clearly bujna sakincha.. Baki Rakchas , Krishna etc stories seems very in logic and nonsense..
मलाई ८,९,१० कक्षामा नेपाली पढाउने गुरु, आज धेरै पछि उहाको कुरा सुन्न पाउँदा निकै खुसी लागेको छ🙏
The Limbu and Rai communities in Nepal and Sikkim have long been associated with the ancient Kirat people. However, despite the widespread belief in their antiquity, there is a dearth of archaeological evidence to support this claim. In fact, the available data suggests that these communities are not ancient Kiratas but rather refugees who migrated from China during the Mongol conquests and later sought refuge in Nepal and Sikkim.
One of the primary arguments against the antiquity of Limbus and Rais is the lack of written records and archaeological sites that date back to the time period when they are believed to have inhabited the region. In contrast, there are numerous forts, palaces, and inscriptions that attest to the presence of the Sen Thakuris and Bhutias (Chogyals) in Eastern Nepal and Sikkim, dating back over 600 years.
Furthermore, the cultural and linguistic practices of Limbus and Rais are more closely aligned with those of the Mongolian people than with the Kirat people. For instance, the Limbus have a significant amount of Mongolian DNA, which distinguishes them from other Mongoloid groups in South Asia. This genetic connection is a strong indication that they are not indigenous to the region but rather migrated from China during the Mongol conquests.
The migration of Limbus and Rais from China to Northern Tibet and then to Nepal during the 17th century is well-documented in historical records. They sought refuge in the Sen kings of Nepal and the Chogyals of Sikkim, who provided them with protection and land in exchange for their military services and cultural practices.
In summary, the available evidence suggests that Limbus and Rais are not ancient Kiratas but rather refugees who migrated from China during the Mongol conquests and later sought refuge in Nepal and Sikkim. Their cultural and linguistic practices, as well as their genetic makeup, are more closely aligned with those of the Mongolian people than with the Kirat people. Therefore, it is essential to reevaluate the historical narrative surrounding these communities and recognize their true origins and migrations.
@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd11❤😊0p
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Rai Limbu kirati hoina. China ko sinchuwan bata tibet chireko ra tibet bata chogyal ra Sen Thakuri ko rajya ma saran lieko saranarthi haru hun.
@@ShumitraMagar Rai Limbu kirati hoina. China ko sinchuwan bata tibet chireko ra tibet bata chogyal ra Sen Thakuri ko rajya ma saran lieko saranarthi haru hun.
Nepal ko Mulbasi Rai, Limbu, Gurung, Magar, Tamag, Tharu, aru Himalayan tribes haru.. Tah haru ko 10, 15 pusta dekhi besi chaina hai Nepal ma etihas😊
मैले यो लामो प्रस्तुति धैर्यताका साथ सुनें, हामीले इतिहास भनेको , मानेको भन्दा पनि धेरै धेरै परको कुरा, विषय आयो । अति रोचक र खोजमूलक लाग्यो । धेरै धेरै धन्यवाद छ सर यहाँको खोज अन्वेषणको लागि ।
किरातहरू, जो इतिहासका केही पाठहरूमा भील पनि भनिन्छ, प्राचीन काठमाडौं उपत्यकाका वासिन्दा थिए। यद्यपि, विभिन्न सामाजिक-राजनीतिक दबाबहरूको कारण, तिनीहरूलाई बसाइँ सर्न बाध्य पारियो। किरातहरूको ठूलो भाग काठमाडौंको पश्चिमतिर भागेर खसहरूसँग मिसियो। त्यस्तैगरी, किरातहरूको अर्को खण्ड पूर्वतर्फ बसाइँ सर्दै पूर्वी नेपाल र असमको क्षेत्रमा बसोबास गर्न पुग्यो। असममा, तिनीहरूले स्थानीय इन्डो-आर्यन असमिया जनसंख्यासँग अन्तरमिश्रण गरे, जसले तिनीहरूको सांस्कृतिक र भाषिक विरासतलाई अझै मिलायो। यस संयोजनले असमिया र नेपाली (खस) भाषाहरू बीचका साझा भाषिक र सांस्कृतिक विशेषताहरूमा योगदान पुर्यायो, जसले तिनीहरूको इन्डो-आर्यन सम्बन्धलाई प्रकाश पार्छ। यो संगै, भील भाषासँगका समानताहरूले पनि नेपाल र भारतका विभिन्न भागहरूबीचको ऐतिहासिक र सांस्कृतिक अन्तरक्रियालाई झल्काउँछ।
राई र लिम्बुहरू मूलतः मंगोलिया क्षेत्रबाट उत्पन्न भएका थिए। ७औं शताब्दीमा मंगोलियाबाट सिचुवान क्षेत्रमा बसाइँ सरेका थिए। मंगोल आक्रमणको कारणले गर्दा १३औं शताब्दीमा तिनीहरू उत्तर तिब्बततर्फ लागे। उत्तर तिब्बतबाट, अन्ततः तिनीहरू १६औं शताब्दीमा पूर्वी नेपाल र सिक्किमतर्फ शरणार्थीका रूपमा आइपुगे। त्यहाँ उनीहरूलाई लेप्चा भूस्वामीहरू र सेन राजाहरूले शरण दिएका थिए।
इमान सिंह चेम्जोङको प्रभाव: दार्जिलिङका प्रमुख इतिहासकार इमान सिंह चेम्जोङको प्रयासले यस कथालाई महत्वपूर्ण मोड दियो। चेम्जोङले किरात जातिको पहिचानलाई पुनः परिभाषित गर्न महत्त्वपूर्ण भूमिका खेले। उनले "किरात" शब्दलाई मूल किरातहरू मात्र नभएर राई र लिम्बु समुदायहरूलाई समावेश गर्न प्रयोग गरे। यो पुनःपरिभाषा रणनीतिक थियो, विशेषगरी सिक्किममा राजनीतिक शक्ति र प्रभाव हासिल गर्न यी समूहहरूलाई एकीकृत गर्नको लागि। चेम्जोङको कामले यी समूहहरूको राजनीतिक जुटानमा महत्त्वपूर्ण भूमिका खेले, जसले सिक्किममा चोग्याल सरकारको चुनौती र अन्ततः पल्टाउने प्रयास गर्यो। किरात पहिचानलाई समेटेर, चेम्जोङ र उनका समकालीनहरूले एकीकृत मोर्चा बनाउन सक्षम भए, तर यसले किरात जातिको मौलिक इतिहासलाई मेटाउन र परिमार्जन गर्नको लागि नेतृत्व गर्यो।
ऐतिहासिक मेटावटको पछाडिका राजनीतिक उद्देश्यहरू: किरात जातिको मौलिक इतिहासको मेटावट केवल ऐतिहासिक पुनर्व्याख्याको अनपेक्षित उपोत्पाद मात्र नभएर राजनीतिक उद्देश्यद्वारा प्रेरित योजनाबद्ध कार्य थियो। किरातको परिभाषालाई अन्य जातीय समूहहरूलाई समेटेर व्यापक बनाउने क्रममा, दार्जिलिङका इतिहासकारहरूले क्षेत्रको सामाजिक-राजनीतिक परिदृश्यमा थप शक्ति हासिल गर्न खोजे।
नेपाली भाषा, असमिया भाषा, र भील भाषाहरू बीचका समानताहरूले दुवै भाषाको इन्डो-आर्यन सम्बन्धलाई पुष्टि गर्छन्। किरात (भील) मानिसहरू काठमाडौं उपत्यकाबाट लिच्छविहरूको आक्रमणबाट भागेर खस र असमिया जनतासँग मिसिएको हुँदा, यी भाषाहरूमा धेरै साझा शब्दावली, व्याकरणिक संरचना, र उच्चारणका विशेषताहरू छन्। उदाहरणका लागि, असमिया र नेपाली भाषामा प्रयोग हुने धेरै शब्दहरू र तिनीहरूको उच्चारण शैली एकअर्कासँग मेल खान्छ। यसले भाषिक समानताहरूले किरात जातिको इन्डो-आर्यन जरा र तिनीहरूको सांस्कृतिक अन्तरक्रियालाई देखाउँछ।
Probably best podcast ever .
Totally connected.
Gurung haruko grantha ma pani northern side bata aayera chhutiyeko vanne chha somehow it’s connected.
Part 2 indeed
This historian or whatever rai was speaking without full knowledge but yeah he makes sense about Kirats history we did came from above from Tibet side in the past more than 6000 years or so not once but many times constantly it’s because the first batch of our group went to explore more lands and it’s also believed that first inhabitants india wasn’t even dravidians you should see Dravidian invasion history of India and timelines you can see pattern around 20000 years or 10000 cus science is never accurate that they were invading all over Oceania ,Indonesia ,Philippines even parts of South America ,The biggest joke was Dravids Munda people taught us about rice agricultures etc when originally we taught them it’s the other way around you can look around all over Asia we always had rice agricultural history,Egypt history is all made up no proofs . Dravidian also means people who lived or came from water .Dravidian’s aren’t first native to Asia and Europe too. This is what’s been taught nowadays the historians nowadays completely ignore Asian histories with biasedness it’s really getting super rare to know about real history nowadays because we’re all being fed lies
You can see Dravidian or Proto Dravidian uses Tibetian phonetic , Dravidian also shares culturals and even cuisines similarities with East Asians. You think it’s all just plain coincidence and furthermore proof is rongorongo language an Easter islanders language is known for indo Aryan or Dravidian mother language . We’re going full circles all around . You see? One hypothesis could be The First Nation peoples(red indians) may have brought us lanuguages ,cultures shamanism it’s weird how when they came a lot of mega ancient (lol I had to say cus everyone’s else are exaggerated but this one’s real)Asian civilisations (The artic colony 20000 in massive Russia ) ,and other mangolians rose and since then there we all have similarities but we cant respect each others as equal’s equilibrium has failed us but we share the same cultures around.
अझै सुन्न र प्रमाण सहित बुझ्न मन लाग्यो।सत्यताको नजिकको अध्यन र विश्लेषण ❤️
There are so many things that connects of Newari and kirati folklore the thing about some one coming from assam to teach us rice planting is so fascinating remember the main god if Newars karunamaya or rato machindranath was also brought from assam another thing sankhu is believed to be the oldest city of the valley so as the myth goes as the swoyambhu stupas seed was planted by amitabha Buddha and later on enshrined before the statue in sankhu there was the stupa enclosed to this day in temple and the Mahayana Buddhism was started there before Buddha then which I feel may not be called Buddhism then so too many dots were connected makes sense if we try to connect kırat mundhum. An interesting fact I know and we don’t care is newar play dhimey and the kırat too have the similar percussion drum and another thing newars and kirats both have a culture of worshiping their ancestors and yes ChyaSal exists and the modern days jyapu (kıssan) in newar community are kirats and identify as such viz. Maharjan dongol byanjankar manadhar Mali and few more. Interesting content
The Rais and Limbus were initially primitive tribes in eastern Nepal, often described as nomadic and lacking a structured society. However, their fortunes changed dramatically under British rule. The British, seeking reliable local allies, favored the Rais and Limbus, who in return supported British geopolitical interests, particularly in Sikkim. This patronage allowed the Rais and Limbus to gain significant socio-political leverage, which they used to further their own agendas.
Conflict Between Lepchas and Bhutias in Sikkim
The Lepchas and Bhutias have long been the primary ethnic groups in Sikkim. The Bhutia Chogyals ruled Sikkim for centuries, with the Lepchas playing a significant role in the kingdom's cultural and social fabric. However, the arrival and subsequent rise of the Rais and Limbus disrupted this balance.
The Rais and Limbus employed a strategy of divide and rule, learned from their British allies. They fabricated narratives suggesting a shared origin between the Lepchas and Limbus, aiming to weaken the unity between Lepchas and Bhutias. By claiming that Lepchas and Limbus were the same people, they sought to undermine Bhutia dominance and create an ethnic rift.
Moreover, the Limbus introduced a writing script purportedly derived from Tibetan and Lepcha sources, furthering their claim to a shared heritage with the Lepchas. The Bhutias, being relatively isolated mountain people, struggled to counter these sophisticated manipulations. The resulting confusion and mistrust between the Lepchas and Bhutias weakened their collective resistance against external influences, including those of the Rais and Limbus.
Instigating Conflict Between Chettri and Brahmin in Nepal
In Nepal, the Rais and Limbus attempted to exploit existing social hierarchies to create discord between the Chettri and Brahmin communities. The Chettris and Brahmins, both belonging to the Khas Arya group, have traditionally held significant political and social influence in Nepal. By fabricating stories and spreading rumors, the Rais and Limbus aimed to pit these two communities against each other.
This divide-and-rule tactic involved highlighting and exacerbating minor disputes and differences, thus fostering a climate of mistrust and rivalry. The objective was to destabilize the socio-political cohesion of the dominant groups, thereby creating opportunities for the Rais and Limbus to assert their influence.
Creating Division Between Shrestha and Maharjan
The Shrestha and Maharjan communities, integral to the Newar society of Kathmandu Valley, were not immune to the machinations of the Rais and Limbus. By manipulating historical narratives and exploiting social tensions, the Rais and Limbus sought to create divisions within the Newar community.
The Shresthas, typically of higher social status, and the Maharjans, primarily involved in agriculture and trade, were targeted through a campaign of misinformation and fabricated grievances. This strategy aimed to weaken the unity of the Newar community, making it easier for the Rais and Limbus to advance their interests.
@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd You and @ranjitamagar-ye1hv both joined just three weeks and 7 days ago, respectively as fake accounts. After joining, both of you began commenting with the main purpose of propagating baseless propaganda by replicating the same evidence-less phrases in every comment section. This behavior suggests a hidden agenda to divide society and create chaos.
@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fdthis guy without any credible source is spreading hate against Rai and Limboos in every social media post. Pathetic behaviour whichever caste u belong too.
@@Politician69what pathetic timi haru ko evidence de
Assam from North East India? Ho
I did a DNA analysis with the National Geography Genome Project, and it aligns well with Dr. Chamling's depiction. I belong to the Jyapu group, and my genetic mix shows 66% northeast asian, and the other 34% is a mix of others. My mother's ancestral DNA lineage resembles the modern-day Han Chinese.
Yeah, if we Tibetan-Burmese speakers of Nepal do our DNA test, we'll probably have more similarities with Chinese people. There are two reasons for this. First, there hasn't been much research done on the different branches of Sino-Tibetan and tibetan-burmese language speakers. So, all of us are just lumped together as "Chinese." Second, until recently, we mostly married within our own tribes. Inter-caste marriages are a new thing. So, our DNA has stayed pretty much intact.
Don't be surprised if you get 0.1% Native American.
@@kaal-timespacedeath4905 where can we take this test
नेपाल र सिक्किमका लिम्बू र राई समुदायहरू लामो समयदेखि प्राचीन किरात मानिसहरूसँग जोडिएका छन्। यद्यपि, तिनीहरूको प्राचीनतामा व्यापक विश्वास भए तापनि, यस दावीलाई समर्थन गर्न पुरातात्विक प्रमाणहरूको अभाव छ। वास्तवमा, उपलब्ध तथ्याङ्कले यी समुदायहरू प्राचीन किराताहरू होइनन् तर मङ्गोल विजयको समयमा चीनबाट बसाइँ सरेका र पछि नेपाल र सिक्किममा शरण लिएका शरणार्थीहरू हुन् भन्ने देखाउँछ।
लिम्बस र राइसको पुरातनता विरुद्धको प्राथमिक तर्कहरू मध्ये एउटा लिखित अभिलेख र पुरातात्विक स्थलहरूको अभाव हो जुन उनीहरूले यस क्षेत्रमा बसोबास गरेको विश्वास गरिएको समय अवधिको हो। यसको विपरित, त्यहाँ धेरै किल्लाहरू, दरबारहरू र शिलालेखहरू छन् जसले पूर्वी नेपाल र सिक्किममा सेन ठाकुरिस र भुटियाहरू (चोग्यालहरू) को उपस्थितिलाई प्रमाणित गर्दछ, जुन 600 वर्ष भन्दा पुरानो हो।
यसबाहेक, लिम्बस र राइसको सांस्कृतिक र भाषिक अभ्यासहरू किरात मानिसहरूसँग भन्दा मङ्गोलियन मानिसहरूसँग बढी नजिक छन्। उदाहरणका लागि, लिम्बसमा मङ्गोलियन डिएनएको महत्त्वपूर्ण मात्रा हुन्छ, जसले तिनीहरूलाई दक्षिण एसियाका अन्य मङ्गोलोइड समूहहरूबाट फरक पार्छ। यो आनुवंशिक सम्बन्ध एक बलियो सङ्केत हो कि तिनीहरू यस क्षेत्रका आदिवासी होइनन् तर मङ्गोल विजयको समयमा चीनबाट बसाइँ सरेका थिए।
17 औँ शताब्दीमा चीनबाट उत्तरी तिब्बत र त्यसपछि नेपालमा लिम्बस र रइसको बसाइँसराइ ऐतिहासिक अभिलेखहरूमा राम्रोसँग दस्तावेज गरिएको छ। उनीहरूले नेपालका सेन राजाहरू र सिक्किमका चोग्यालहरूमा शरण लिए, जसले उनीहरूलाई उनीहरूको सैन्य सेवा र सांस्कृतिक अभ्यासहरूको बदलामा सुरक्षा र भूमि प्रदान गरे।
सारांशमा, उपलब्ध प्रमाणहरूले सुझाव दिन्छ कि लिम्बस र रायहरू प्राचीन किराताहरू होइनन् तर शरणार्थीहरू हुन् जसले मङ्गोल विजयको समयमा चीनबाट बसाइँ सरे र पछि नेपाल र सिक्किममा शरण लिए। तिनीहरूको सांस्कृतिक र भाषिक अभ्यासहरू, साथै तिनीहरूको आनुवंशिक बनावट, किरात मानिसहरूसँग भन्दा मङ्गोलियन मानिसहरूसँग बढी नजिकबाट जोडिएको छ। तसर्थ, यी समुदायहरू वरपरको ऐतिहासिक कथाको पुनर्मूल्यांकन गर्न र तिनीहरूको वास्तविक उत्पत्ति र आप्रवासनलाई चिन्न आवश्यक छ।
Not only Jyapu people but most Newars with Mongoloid ( not Mongolian) physical features) have East Asian genes to varying amount.
My family members who have done the genome test has also revealed the same result…linkages to north eastern and Burmese origin.
हाम्रो किराँत समुदायमा मुन्धुम बारे अझ धेरै अध्यान गर्नु पर्छ। बधाई छ भोगिराज दाजु।
seedha seedha bhan na. You have no proof of being there. Even a cavemen leaves a mark wherever he goes. Limbus have no mark in Eastern Nepal or sikkim. Just written histories during the british time. Limbus helped british to make sikkim a protectorate of British empire. The british helped them establish fake history.DNA test le prove garisakeko cha Rai, Limbu mongolia ko refugee ho Bhutia le uniharulai saran dieko ho. Sojha bhutia lai ullu banaera aile purai sikkim afno claim garisakyo
@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fdYou are mixing Sikkim and Nepal history. Bhutias definitely occupied Sikkim first. Kiratis settled later after being displaced by Shahs during and after unificiation of Nepal.
@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd You and @ranjitamagar-ye1hv both joined just three weeks and 7 days ago, respectively as fake accounts. After joining, both you began commenting with the main purpose of propagating baseless propaganda by replicating the same evidence-less phrases in every comment section. This behavior suggests a hidden agenda to divide society and create chaos.
@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd Bihari dhoti ko DNA pani tmisanga milx ni kura anusar..tmi pani bihari ko refugee nai ho by the way
पैले सिक्किमको प्री हिस्टोरी हेर त्यो लिम्बुवान को एक भाग हो ।@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd
भोगीराज ज्यू का कुरा सुन्दा यस्तो लाग्यो कि लिखित इतिहास हरू धेरै मा २५% मात्र सही, बाँकी काल्पनिक मात्र रहेछ जस्तो। यसको लागि यहाँ लाई हार्दिक धन्यवाद।
The Best podcast and most meaningful podcast in Nepal. Thank u sushant . Amazing show.
During the colonial period, the British strategically brought a significant number of Limbus to Darjeeling. This move was primarily aimed at maintaining a balance of power in the region and keeping a check on the Sikkimese and the Gorkhas. The British and the Limbus together had a profound impact on the political and social dynamics of the area, often undermining the established histories and authorities of the Gorkha and Sikkim kingdoms.
The Erasure of Indigenous Histories
The actions of the Limbus, supported by the British, were particularly detrimental to the histories of the Lepcha and Bhutia communities, the original rulers of Sikkim, and the Khas Aryans and Newars, the ruling communities of Nepal. The Limbus, leveraging their strategic position, engaged in activities that led to the significant erasure of these communities' historical narratives. This erasure was so extensive that for many years, the rich histories of the Lepchas, Bhutias, Khas Aryans, and Newars were largely forgotten.
Rediscovery Through Archaeology
In recent times, archaeological discoveries have begun to uncover the long-buried histories of these communities. Excavations have revealed substantial evidence of the Khas Aryan presence in Nepal, such as the remains of the Kakre Bihar and Khas Malla Durbars, as well as the Chand Durbar and Simrangarh sites. Inscriptions in the Nepali language dating back 1,200 years, and the remnants of King Bhupal Mahipal's 1,400-year-old durbar, have further substantiated the rich historical tapestry of the Khas Aryans.
The Sen Thakuris, who ruled over Eastern Nepal for over 600 years, have also left behind numerous forts and palaces, such as the Makwanpur Gadi forts, Udayapur forts, and Bijaypur Durbar. These sites serve as tangible proof of their long-standing reign, extending into present-day Sikkim.
The Limbus and Mongolian DNA
Genetic studies have shown that the Limbus possess a high amount of Mongolian DNA, distinguishing them from other Mongoloid groups in South Asia. This genetic heritage supports the historical narrative that the Limbus, along with the Rais, migrated from the Sichuan province in China to Northern Tibet during the Mongol conquests. From there, they moved to Nepal in the 17th century, seeking refuge with the Sen kings of Nepal and the Chogyals of Sikkim.
Historical Manipulations by the Limbus
The Limbus were among the first Nepali groups to document their history, often writing it in a manner that favored their perspectives and interests. This has led to accusations of bias and misinformation. Historical accounts penned by the Limbus in the 1900s have been challenged and debunked through recent archaeological findings, which have unearthed significant evidence of the Khas Malla and other ancient kingdoms. Despite these findings, there remains a conspicuous lack of archaeological evidence supporting the long-term historical presence of the Limbus in Nepal, such as palaces, inscriptions, or other significant sites.
The interplay between the British, the Limbus, and the indigenous communities of Eastern Nepal and Sikkim has had long-lasting effects on the region's historical narrative. While the Limbus played a crucial role during the colonial period, their actions, supported by the British, led to the suppression and erasure of the histories of other significant groups. Today, ongoing archaeological discoveries are gradually restoring these lost narratives, providing a more balanced and comprehensive understanding of the region's rich and diverse history.
@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fdmate you r crushing sentences with loaded heavy information nor you prove yourself writing long sentences and word. If you talking about yourself no one care but if you're horny to reveal evidence. Need to dig whole ktm valley seek grave soil. Every layer of soil have to cranes with chuck of muds. Yatro prithvi 9 billion people ko history tyekka timi nai Liya kina eauta vulnerable community matraii kina linxu? Lu vayo yo dharti ma timrai matraii khandan poila aako theya aba ta chitta bujyo hola gari khau.
@ranjitamagar-ye1hv and @SandeshKushwaha3924 I guess you are either closely associated or the same person with a mission.
Please let me know why you are so much against Rai, Limbu people of Nepal. Did a Rai or Limbu do something bad to you?
You are trying to challenge already established history of Kirati people without giving any reliable references.
Read late Suniti Kumar Chaterjee ( the renowned Kiratologist), Nepal's number one Sociologist and Anthropologist Prof. Dor Bahadur Bista, Prof. Dr. Surya Mani Adhikary ( Khas specialist, author of The Khas Kingdom), Nepal's number one historian late Babu Ram Acharya for real history of Rai, Limbu and Kirat people.
@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd Addressing baseless claims with factual evidence is crucial. Limbus and Rais have rich cultural heritages supported by archaeological
finds and oral traditions
1. Archaeological Evidence and Historical Narratives
While Sen Thakuris and Bhutias played roles in the region, dismissing Limbu and Rai history ignores substantial evidence.
Archaeological finds in Darjeeling and Nepal include stone inscriptions, relics, and fortifications suggesting ancient settlements.
These findings predate the supposed dominance claimed solely by Sen Thakuris and Bhutias.
2. British Patronage and Historical Revisionism
Role of British: The assertion that Limbus and Rais rewrote history under British patronage lacks substantial evidence.
British colonial records indeed influenced the region, but attributing the entire historical narrative revision to them is simplistic.
Limbu and Rai cultural histories predate British influence, evident in oral traditions and artifacts.
3. Oral Histories vs. Archaeological Evidence
Response: Oral traditions are integral to Limbu and Rai culture, reflecting their deep-rooted connection to the land. Archaeological evidence supports
cultural practices and settlements, validating their historical presence.
4. Genetic Ancestry and Migration
Genetic studies show diverse ancestries among indigenous groups. Limbus and Rais have distinct cultural practices and languages, indicating
their ancient ties to the region, long before any migrations.
5. Brahmins and Cultural Destruction
Historical records show Brahmin migrations to Nepal occurred centuries later than indigenous groups like Limbus and Rais. Brahmins
influenced social structures but did not diminish indigenous cultural contributions. Efforts to suppress indigenous narratives are well-documented in colonial
and post-colonial histories
कतिपय आर्य नश्लको मानिसहरुलाई यी कुराहरू पचाउन मुश्किल भइरहेको छ। प्रत्येकको कमेन्टमा गएर नानाथरी लेखिरहेको छ। अहिले सम्म मैले खोजेको पढेको सुनेको इतिहासमा धेरै convincing यो podcast पाएँ। यसको लागि धेरै धेरै धन्यवाद।
थप कुरा गर्नु पर्दा चाहिँ,
उदाहरणको लागि राउटे जाति जसरी जंगलमा नै रहेको छ हालको समय सम्म त्यसरी नै सुरुमा यो उपत्यकामा सिकार खेल्दै आउने जाति मध्ये किरातीहरु नै हुन। यसरी आउने क्रम पछि सम्म नै चलेको हो, यसलाई नकार्न सकिन्न। कोही कैलाश मानसरोवर हुँदै आए कोही पूर्वको कमारुपा हुँदै आए अनि कोही दक्षिणबाट। दक्षिण बाट आउनेहरू चाहिँ धेरै पछि आएका हुन जो आर्य नश्लकाहरु हुन। उनीहरू मध्ये सुरुमा आउनेहरू चाहिँ पश्चिम क्षेत्रबाट आएकाहरु हुन जसलाई खस भनिन्छ। उनीहरू यहाँका पहिले नै आएर बसेका हरुसंग नजिकिन पुगेर उनीहरूको समाज र संस्कृति त्यही अनुसार बद्लिन पुग्यो। जो मानसरोवर हुँदै आए उनीहरू हडप्पा सभ्यता सँग नजिकिन पुगे। त्यही क्रममा उनीहरूमा द्रविडहरुको पनि केही प्रभाव पर्न गयो। यसरी गतिशील हुँदै हाम्रो समाज काठमाडौं उपत्यकामा एकीकृत हुन पुग्यो र जसको अन्तरसंघर्षको रूपमा नेवाः सभ्यता र समाज पनि विकास हुन पुग्यो।
अन्त्यमा, यो हाम्रो नेपाली समाजको विकास बुझ्नको लागि समग्र हाल बसोबास गर्ने समुदायको दृष्टिकोण, समाज, परम्परालाई समग्रमा नियाल्नु पर्ने हुन्छ। हिजो ब्राह्मणवादी सोचले धेरै इतिहास दबिन पुग्यो। अनि अर्को कुरा, यलम्बरले काठमाडौं उपत्यकामा आगमनको विषयमा तामाङ समुदायमा एउटा राम्रो कथा छ, यसलाई अझ बुझ्न सीताराम तामाङ ज्यू लाई आमन्त्रण गर्न सक्नु हुन्छ। जाँदा जाँदै, चेम्जोङ जी ले भन्न छुटाउनु भएको कुरा चाहिँ जुन पाषण कालीन हतियार थियो त्यो मंगोलियाको गोबी क्षेत्रमा पाएको हतियार सँग मेल खान्थ्यो।
धन्यबाद
You are absolutely right
@ranjitamagar-ye1hv khubai thakuri sanga connect huna khojeko hola Bali haang raja magar vanney yo Nepal maa vaako mongol Samaaj maa sabai vandaa kamjor rah aafulai mongol vandaa ni aaarya thakuri vanna ruchaauney jaat magar ho thakuri ley raajya garyo vandai maa magar le raajya gareko pusti hudaina na gurung ley tyo tai na tui ko jugey ko etihaas Lai haami maandai nau kirati haru ley haareyko raajya Lai feri paauna agdam tigdam kaheley Pani garenau baru arko raajya Tira laageu timi Lai chai brain wash gareko ho nani hijo haami 5-6 class padhney bela yalambar Lai Nepal ko pahelo raja maanthyo vanthyo bich maa fraud indian bahun etihaaskaar ley aayerah paal bangsha ley pahelo raaj garyo vanerah promote garyo thakuri magar hoina thakuri India bata vaagerah Aayeko ho magar haru lai veda banaayerah brain wash garerah magar rah thakuri eutai ho vandai promote garyo rahan sahan eutai hudai maa jaat tharr eutai hudaina
त नेपाली होइनस मुजि । त नस्ल बादी होस , नेपाली होइनस । जा आफ्नो उत्पति भएको ठाउँ जा । तेरो नस्ल को मुल तेरो बाउ भको ठाउँ जा । गेडा देखाउदै नेपाल किन बसि रको छस । तेरो नस्ल तेरो उत्पति जा भएको हो त्यही जा, सबै मिलेर बसेको नेपाल मा यो नस्ल त्यो नस्ल भन्दै सद्भाव भाड्ने काम नगर खाते ।
@@lyanglyang1 इतिहासलाई बताउँदा सदभाव विग्रिदैन। तर सत्य पचाउन सक्नु पर्दछ। जुन अहिलेको केही अर्य समुदायमा छैन। उनीहरू चाहिँ के नस्ल बादी होइनन्? अनि अर्को कुरा त्यो मंगोल के के भन्दै हिड्छन नी हो तिनीहरूको नी विरोधी हो म। तिमीहरूलाई म नश्लवादी लाग्छ भने लागोस। तर हिजो नामेट पारिएको ईतिहास उजागर गरिनु पर्दछ। जुन धेरै हदसम्म इतिहासले खोल्न नसकिरहेको छ/ दबाइरहेको छ।
यी कुराहरू पच्दैन भने मुख पनि नछाडदा हुन्छ। हामीलाई पनि मुख छाड्न आउछ। अनि हामी सबै अफ्रिका बाट आएका हौ, खोज्दै जाने हो भने त्यही हो। इतिहासको कालखण्डमा हामी यो स्थानमा जम्मा भएका छौं। हाम्रो केही समाज र संस्कृतिले तिमीहरूलाई केही असर पार्दछ नै अनि तिमीहरूको समाज संस्कृतिले पनि हाम्रो समाज संस्कृतिलाई केही असर पर्दछ (सकारात्मक /नकारात्मक दुवै दृष्टिकोणले हेर्न सकिन्छ) । अनि यो विभिन्न तवरले समाजको अन्तरद्वन्द्व त चली नै रहन्छ। तर, अब के???
आपसी भाइचारा कायम गर्दै अघि बढ्नुको विकल्प छैन। इतिहास को यथार्थता कोट्याउँदा तिम्रो नाख दुख्छ भन त्यो नाक फलिदेऊ। त्यो तिम्रो समस्या हो।
@ranjitamagar-ye1hv जो ठूलो स्वरले कराउँछ त्यो सत्य हो भन्न सकिन्न मित्र। अर्को कुरा लिम्बू समुदाय कुनै एक समुदाय मात्र मिलेर बनेको छैन । उनीहरूमा अन्तिममा आउने जाति भित्र पनि जो यसै कार्यक्रमको अतिथि हुनुहुन्छ उहाँहरुको थर चेम्जोङ नी पर्दछ, जसलाई लिम्बू समुदायमा भोटे भनिन्छ। अनि हिजो ब्राहमण समुदायले छुटाएको ल्हासा र कासी गोत्रमा आफूलाई ल्हासा गोत्र बताउँछन् र अन्यले कासी। यो बसाइसराई को अवस्थिति हेर्दा पछि सम्म नै चलिरहेको देखिन्छ। तर तिमी त एउटै कुरालाई लिए अर्ध तथ्य पेलेको छौ पेलेको छौ। हेर अब १००/२०० वर्ष पछाडि यो काठमाडौं को डाँडा डाँडामा रहेको साना तिनी दरबारहरु अध्यनले झन् इतिहासलाई राम्ररी उजागर गरिदिने छ। अहिले कोही त्यता तिर खोज अनुसन्धान गर्न सकिरहेको छैन, ध्यान केन्द्रित गर्न सकिरहेको छैन। अनि अर्को कुरा १६/१७ औं सताब्दीमा आउने र प्राय अधिकांश आर्य हरु नै हुन् खोज्दै जाऊ तिमीहरूको जरा खस हरुको बाहेक ५/६/७ बढीमा ८-१० पुस्ता बाहेक यहाँ भेट्दैनौं।
मौखिक इतिहास र मुन्धुम बारे थप कुराहरू जान्ने मौका पाउँदा खुशी लाग्यो ।।।
खासमा अहिले जसलाई किरात भनिदै आइएको छ उनीहरूको मिथक र मुन्दुम प्रसस्तिमा किरात शब्द नै छैन ।
@@RameshYadav-d1r पागल 😂😂😂
Such an interesting podcast, thanks to Bhojiraj Chamling for such an important knowledge.
नेपाली मौखिक ज्ञान, मुन्दुम र ईतिहासकै गम्भिर अध्येता भोगिराज चाम्लिङ हुनुहुन्छ ।
The Limbus and Rais: Rewriting the History of Nepal's Darjeeling Hills
The history of the Limbus and Rais in the Darjeeling hills has long been shrouded in myth and misinformation. Contrary to the popular narrative propagated by these groups, there is little archaeological evidence to suggest they were the ancient Kiratas who ruled over Eastern Nepal for centuries.
In reality, the available evidence points to a very different story. The Sen Thakuris, not the Limbus or Rais, were the dominant rulers of Eastern Nepal for over 600 years. Their legacy is evident in the numerous forts, palaces and inscriptions that dot the landscape, such as the Makawanpur Gadi, Udayapur Forts and Bijaypur Durbar. Similarly, the Bhutias (Chogyals) established a strong presence in Sikkim during this period.
Yet, through the patronage of the British in Darjeeling, the Limbus and Rais were able to gain an education and subsequently rewrite the history of the region in a way that placed them at the center. Leveraging the lack of written records among the Nepali populace, who were restricted from literacy under Rana rule, these groups crafted a mythical narrative of ancient Kirata kingships and oral traditions to bolster their claims.
Tellingly, this revised history lacks any substantive archaeological or documentary evidence to back it up. Instead, it relies heavily on unverified "oral histories" that conveniently align with the Limbus' and Rais' desire to be recognized as the rightful indigenous rulers of the Darjeeling hills.
Further undermining their claims is the genetic evidence, which reveals a strong Mongolian ancestry among the Limbus and Rais that distinguishes them from other Mongoloid groups in South Asia. This suggests they were likely refugees who migrated from China's Sichuan province to Tibet during the Mongol conquests, before eventually seeking shelter with the Sen kings of Nepal and the Chogyals of Sikkim in the 17th century.
In essence, the Limbus and Rais, with the aid of the British, have succeeded in rewriting the history of Nepal's Darjeeling hills in a way that erases the legitimate claims of the Bhutias, Khas Aryas and Newars. This biased, Limbu-centric narrative has left historians grappling with a distorted understanding of the region's true past. Only by confronting this revisionist history with the weight of archaeological and genetic evidence can the record be set straight.
@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd baula jasto j payo tei kura sabai ko comment ma chai reply didai kina hideko 😂😂
@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd if you’ve watched the last part of podcast where the guest mentions that world is dominated by written words and that oral traditions are usually portrayed to be “hawa”. And you kinda prove his point with your “theory”. And where have you sited your source for your argument? Darjeeling hills predominant has been Lepcha and Kirati(especially Limbu) area until the arrival of the Bhutias. But we also must remember that all our ancestors have migrated from somewhere. It is also believe that Kirati probably came into these parts through the northeastern part of India from the Yangzhi river basin. If you’d paid attention to the guest mentions it’s probably from the Eastern side from which these people might have arrived. This is also supported but many many many tribes from Northeast Indian who also claim that their ancestors too have originated in the same basin. Many in Nepal might not be aware but the food habits and traditions of most Northeastern Indian tribes (prior to some fully immersing themselves into the Christianity) are quite similar to that of Kirati tribes and they also belong to the same language family i.e Tibeto-Burman. But I’d love to learn more about your theory about British great conspiracy to say that Eastern Nepal and Darjeeling hills to be exclusively Kirati areas. And that fact that Newar and KHAS ARYAN had legitimate claims over these areas? It’s actually the great that Kiratis and other non KHAS ARYAN folks got the opportunity of modern education which was clearly denied in the then Nepal that they could learn about themselves and tell stories of their ancestors to the newer generation and the world. You say this narrative is bias without realising how bias your random statements is.And yes please do share a link of your sources :) Thanks
@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd what in the chatGPT is this...
खासमा अहिले जसलाई किरात भनिदै आइएको छ उनीहरूको मिथक र मुन्दुम प्रसस्तिमा किरात शब्द नै छैन ।
Was amazed fee years back when i first time know Aakash Bhairav was resemblance of King Yalamber
खासमा अहिले जसलाई किरात भनिदै आइएको छ उनीहरूको मिथक र मुन्दुम प्रसस्तिमा किरात शब्द नै छैन ।
@@RameshYadav-d1rthe myth is everything… even the MAHABHARAT Kurukshetra war…. See the dates when kurukhsetra happened and when the Kirat ruled Nepal valley under yalember … kurukshetra war happened in 3100BCE & after 2000years of kurukshetra war i .e. 800BCE when Yalambar ruled kathmandu valley…
The Fabrication of the Kirat Identity
The term "Kirat" was strategically adopted by Iman Singh Chemjong to create a sense of unity among the Limbus, Rais, and Yakkhas. However, this identity lacks historical authenticity. Before Chemjong's intervention, these groups did not collectively identify as Kirats. The word "Kirat" itself was first used in this context by Rana Bahadur Shah and not by the indigenous communities themselves. Prithvi Narayan Shah referred to the Limbus as descendants of Yehang, not as Kirats. This indicates that the Kirat identity was an artificial construct, imposed for political purposes rather than a reflection of a genuine historical lineage.
Lack of Archaeological Evidence
The historical narrative promoted by the Kirat movement claims that the Limbus and Rais are ancient inhabitants of Eastern Nepal, integral to the region's history. However, there is a glaring lack of archaeological evidence to support this claim. Unlike the well-documented presence of the Sen Thakuri dynasty and the Bhutia Chogyals, which is evidenced by numerous forts, palaces, and inscriptions such as those at Makawanpur Gadi, Udayapur Forts, and Bijaypur Durbar, there are no corresponding sites that can be attributed to Limbu or Rai rule.
No inscriptions, palaces, or forts bear witness to a long-term Limbu presence or governance in Eastern Nepal. This absence of material evidence starkly contrasts with the rich archaeological heritage left by other ruling dynasties in the region, highlighting the lack of historical basis for the Kirat movement's claims.
Genetic and Historical Discrepancies
Genetic studies have shown that the Limbus and Rais possess a high proportion of Mongolian DNA, distinguishing them from other Tibeto-Burman ethnic groups in South Asia. This genetic evidence suggests that these communities migrated from the Sichuan province in China to northern Tibet during the Mongol conquests and later settled in Eastern Nepal in the 17th century. This migration narrative contradicts the Kirat movement's assertion of an ancient and indigenous lineage in Eastern Nepal. Instead, it positions the Limbus and Rais as relatively recent arrivals who sought refuge in the region under the patronage of local rulers, rather than as ancient inhabitants with a long-standing historical presence.
A Spiteful Movement Against the Bhutia Community
The Kirat movement was not merely an attempt to rewrite history; it was also a targeted campaign against the Bhutia community. Chemjong's efforts to foster a unified Kirat identity were driven by a desire to incite resistance and revolt against the Bhutia-dominated Kingdom of Sikkim. This movement was rooted in ethnic animosity and aimed at undermining the Bhutia community's historical and political significance in the region.
The rebranding of the Yakthung Mundhum to Kirat Mundhum was a deliberate attempt to erase the Bhutia community's contributions and presence. By promoting a false narrative of historical dominance, the Kirat movement sought to marginalize the Bhutias and assert an unsubstantiated claim to the region's heritage.
The Kirat movement, as orchestrated by Iman Singh Chemjong, was based on a lie and lacked any legitimate historical foundation. It was a spiteful and hateful campaign against the Bhutia community, aimed at rewriting history for political purposes. The lack of archaeological evidence supporting the claims of ancient Limbu rule, coupled with genetic and historical discrepancies, underscores the falsehoods at the heart of the Kirat movement. It is crucial to critically reevaluate this narrative and recognize the true historical context of Eastern Nepal and its diverse ethnic landscape. By doing so, we can ensure a more accurate and inclusive understanding of the region's history, free from the distortions and biases perpetuated by the Kirat movement.
@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd As a member of the Limbu community and part of the Kirat identity, I feel it is important to address some of the claims made regarding our history and heritage.
Historical and Cultural Significance
The Kirat identity is deeply rooted in the cultural and historical fabric of the Limbu, Rai, Yakkha, and other related communities in Eastern Nepal. Ancient texts,
such as the Mahabharata and various Puranas, mention the Kirat people, indicating our long-standing presence in the region.
Scholarly Contributions
Scholars like Iman Singh Chemjong have played a crucial role in documenting and preserving the history, language, and culture of the Kirat people. Their work is
not merely political but also a vital effort to protect and promote our cultural identity.
Archaeological Evidence
The absence of large-scale architectural remains attributed to the Limbu and Rai does not negate our historical presence. Many indigenous communities, including ours,
have traditionally lived in harmony with nature, leaving fewer monumental structures but rich cultural landscapes. Oral histories, cultural practices,
and smaller archaeological finds are also significant evidence of our historical presence.
Brahmin Migration and Cultural Impact
It is well-documented that the Brahmins arrived in Eastern Nepal later than the indigenous Kirat communities. Historically, their arrival has been associated with
attempts to impose their culture and traditions, often at the expense of local customs and practices. This has included efforts to assimilate or erase the unique
cultural and religious practices of the Kirat people. Despite these pressures, the Kirat identity has persisted, a testament to the resilience and strength of our
cultural heritage.
Political and Ethnic Context
The Kirat identity is not a mere historical fabrication but an essential aspect of our cultural heritage. Efforts to unify the Kirat identity were aimed at fostering
solidarity among marginalized communities, not at erasing the contributions of others. Historical narratives must be inclusive, recognizing the contributions and
presence of all groups in the region.
Conclusion
The Kirat identity holds profound significance for the Limbu, Rai, and other Kirat communities. Our cultural heritage, documented by scholars and evidenced
through our traditions, is a testament to our enduring presence in Eastern Nepal. It is crucial to respect and acknowledge the rich and diverse history of all
ethnic groups in the region.
@@nishantchamling1017but u re not hindus right
Thank you for such quality content. Please bring the Janak Lal Sharma, head of archeology department, as a guest.
Hope to see more and more unbiased guests with great knowledge and researches.
निकै मजाले सुन्न्यो मैले सुनेर बुझेर आएको कुरा हरु मा अझ क्लियर भैयो धन्यवाद हजुरहरु दुबैजनालाई
After watching this video i just subscribed your channel.....to deep dive into the real history of nepal we must study the several unscripted stories of entire indigenous ethnicities of Nepal....very convincing statement Dr. Chamling.
@ranjitamagar-ye1hvDunge yog ma refuge vanne sabda poni vetindo raiixa hai malai ta thaha nai theyana teso va ta poilko Nepal ta aiile samma herda ta India Bata aune, China Bata aune, butan Bata aune, Pakistan Bata aune, Bangladesh Bata aune sabaii refuge raiixa hai dunge yog ko kura garne ho vane. Basha bikas vako koile ho poila Nepal eastern part ma basne sabaii refuge vannu khojeko hai. English type gardaii ma professor vayindaiana. Luh vo timro saka santan poilai bas theya xa gari khau
खासमा अहिले जसलाई किरात भनिदै आइएको छ उनीहरूको मिथक र मुन्दुम प्रसस्तिमा किरात शब्द नै छैन ।
@ranjitamagar-ye1hv The Kirat dynasty represents the first recognized empire of the Nepali chronology, ruling the
Kathmandu Valley and surrounding regions from roughly 800 BCE to 300 CE. While details regarding
specific rulers and events remain sparse, this critical early kingdom laid the foundations for
centralized governance, socio-cultural amalgamation, and infrastructural projects upon which later
dynasties within emerging Nepali states built upon centuries up to the modern era.
Temporal and Satial Scale
Most historians trace the Kirati imperial span across approximately 12 generations lasting over a millennium until
usurpation by the Lichhavi dynasty. At its peak circa 500 BCE, these primordial kings held sway over the Indo-Nepal
hills and Gangetic plains, sustaining control over trade routes and scattered settlements that coalesced gradually
into a unified sphere now recorded as one of Asia’s earliest Hindu civilizations. Their capital simmered in Devapatan
(present-day Gorkha) before relocating
to the Kathmandu Valley basin based on interpretations of ancient texts and enduring myths.
Origins and Early History
Ethnolinguistic Origins
Linguistic analysis links the Kirati people to Tibeto-Burman roots, sharing affinity with Rai and Limbu ethnicities populating present-day
eastern Nepal and Sikkim. This supports ethnographic positions tracing Kirat migration into Kathmandu Valley circa 700 BCE from old Zhangzhung
domains north of the Himalayas before exerting dominance. Culturally, totemic shamanism and animistic rituals connected to nature worship
characterize early documented Kirati belief patterns.
Key Discoveries
Stone inscriptions and relics hinting at unnamed proto-Kirati settlements predating 500 BCE across eastern mid-hill regions of modern Nepal.
Fortification remnants, iron tools, and weapons symbolically resembling Kirati tiger emblems are buried near the Kathmandu Valley dating to the suspected dynasty era.
Scattered Licchavi records and Newari chronicles referencing rival "Kirata" tribes ruling Kathmandu Valley before the Licchavi dynasty.
Ornate carvings and architecture foundations exhibiting possible Tibeto-Burmese stylistic influences underneath Kathmandu palaces.
Syncretic statues and motifs fusing animist nature worship with early Tantric Hindu themes traced to the dynasty period.
@@RameshYadav-d1r The Kirat dynasty represents the first recognized empire of the Nepali chronology, ruling the
Kathmandu Valley and surrounding regions from roughly 800 BCE to 300 CE. While details regarding
specific rulers and events remain sparse, this critical early kingdom laid the foundations for
centralized governance, socio-cultural amalgamation, and infrastructural projects upon which later
dynasties within emerging Nepali states built upon centuries up to the modern era.
Temporal and Satial Scale
Most historians trace the Kirati imperial span across approximately 12 generations lasting over a millennium until
usurpation by the Lichhavi dynasty. At its peak circa 500 BCE, these primordial kings held sway over the Indo-Nepal
hills and Gangetic plains, sustaining control over trade routes and scattered settlements that coalesced gradually
into a unified sphere now recorded as one of Asia’s earliest Hindu civilizations. Their capital simmered in Devapatan
(present-day Gorkha) before relocating
to the Kathmandu Valley basin based on interpretations of ancient texts and enduring myths.
Origins and Early History
Ethnolinguistic Origins
Linguistic analysis links the Kirati people to Tibeto-Burman roots, sharing affinity with Rai and Limbu ethnicities populating present-day
eastern Nepal and Sikkim. This supports ethnographic positions tracing Kirat migration into Kathmandu Valley circa 700 BCE from old Zhangzhung
domains north of the Himalayas before exerting dominance. Culturally, totemic shamanism and animistic rituals connected to nature worship
characterize early documented Kirati belief patterns.
Key Discoveries
Stone inscriptions and relics hinting at unnamed proto-Kirati settlements predating 500 BCE across eastern mid-hill regions of modern Nepal.
Fortification remnants, iron tools, and weapons symbolically resembling Kirati tiger emblems are buried near the Kathmandu Valley dating to the suspected dynasty era.
Scattered Licchavi records and Newari chronicles referencing rival "Kirata" tribes ruling Kathmandu Valley before the Licchavi dynasty.
Ornate carvings and architecture foundations exhibiting possible Tibeto-Burmese stylistic influences underneath Kathmandu palaces.
Syncretic statues and motifs fusing animist nature worship with early Tantric Hindu themes traced to the dynasty period.
@@RameshYadav-d1r bro Rai and Limbu have their own language. In what basis are you talking about rai and limbu language ?
मलाई चै एकदम गज्जब लाग्यो, धेरै कुर जान्ने मौका मिल्यो धन्यवाद सुशन्त र भोगी दाई 🙏🏼
खासमा अहिले जसलाई किरात भनिदै आइएको छ उनीहरूको मिथक र मुन्दुम प्रसस्तिमा किरात शब्द नै छैन ।
I feel we have to preserve Mr Bhogiraj knowledge for our future generation. Thank you sir for such a extensive explanation 🫡🫡🫡🫡
धेरैनै राम्रो बिश्लेसन भोगिराज जिको 🙏
This is definitely one of the best Podcast in Nepal. Very informative and interesting.
भोगीराज आदाङ्बा बाट धेरै कुरा बुझ्ने मौका पाए । म आफू किरात समुदाय कै ब्याक्ती हुदा विशेष मलाई खुब काम लाग्यो । 🙏🙏🙏🙏
सुसान्त भाइको पोडकास्ट हरु साहै राम्रो लाग्छ ।यस्तै पोडकास्टै माध्यमबाट पनि भाइले धेरै ज्ञानहरू आर्जन गर्नुभएको छ । अहिलेका ज्यापु समूहभित्र पर्ने पुराना किरातीहरू हुन् भन्ने जुन कुरा सरले भन्नुभयो र भाइले भन्नुभयो ।त्यसैले त भनिन्छनेवार भनेको कुनै एउटा जात होइन .नेवार भनेको एउटा समुदाय हो ।यो समुदायमा जुनसुकै जातका व्यक्तिहरू पनि हुन सक्छन् तर यहीको कला संस्कृति परम्पराहरूलाईलाई फलो गरेका हुन्छन् ।यसैको अर्को उदाहरण भनेकोअहिले नेवार समूह भित्र रहेको जोशीहरू सुदूरपश्चिमका ब्राह्मण हुन् । त्यस्तै नेवार भित्रै अहिले रहेको जातमल्लहरू पनि क्षेत्री समुदाय हुन् ।।त्यसैले नेवारलाई एउटा जातसँग मात्रै जोडेर हेर्ने हाम्रो मानसिकतालाई ठूलो बनाउन जरुरी छ।अझै अध्ययन अनुसन्धान गर्न जरूरी छ ।😊😊
seedha seedha bhan na. You have no proof of being there. Even a cavemen leaves a mark wherever he goes. Limbus have no mark in Eastern Nepal or sikkim. Just written histories during the british time. Limbus helped british to make sikkim a protectorate of British empire. The british helped them establish fake history.DNA test le prove garisakeko cha Rai, Limbu mongolia ko refugee ho Bhutia le uniharulai saran dieko ho. Sojha bhutia lai ullu banaera aile purai sikkim afno claim garisakyo
@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd The Kirat dynasty represents the first recognized empire of the Nepali chronology, ruling the
Kathmandu Valley and surrounding regions from roughly 800 BCE to 300 CE. While details regarding
specific rulers and events remain sparse, this critical early kingdom laid the foundations for
centralized governance, socio-cultural amalgamation, and infrastructural projects upon which later
dynasties within emerging Nepali states built upon centuries up to the modern era.
Temporal and Satial Scale
Most historians trace the Kirati imperial span across approximately 12 generations lasting over a millennium until
usurpation by the Lichhavi dynasty. At its peak circa 500 BCE, these primordial kings held sway over the Indo-Nepal
hills and Gangetic plains, sustaining control over trade routes and scattered settlements that coalesced gradually
into a unified sphere now recorded as one of Asia’s earliest Hindu civilizations. Their capital simmered in Devapatan
(present-day Gorkha) before relocating
to the Kathmandu Valley basin based on interpretations of ancient texts and enduring myths.
Origins and Early History
Ethnolinguistic Origins
Linguistic analysis links the Kirati people to Tibeto-Burman roots, sharing affinity with Rai and Limbu ethnicities populating present-day
eastern Nepal and Sikkim. This supports ethnographic positions tracing Kirat migration into Kathmandu Valley circa 700 BCE from old Zhangzhung
domains north of the Himalayas before exerting dominance. Culturally, totemic shamanism and animistic rituals connected to nature worship
characterize early documented Kirati belief patterns.
Key Discoveries
Stone inscriptions and relics hinting at unnamed proto-Kirati settlements predating 500 BCE across eastern mid-hill regions of modern Nepal.
Fortification remnants, iron tools, and weapons symbolically resembling Kirati tiger emblems are buried near the Kathmandu Valley dating to the suspected dynasty era.
Scattered Licchavi records and Newari chronicles referencing rival "Kirata" tribes ruling Kathmandu Valley before the Licchavi dynasty.
Ornate carvings and architecture foundations exhibiting possible Tibeto-Burmese stylistic influences underneath Kathmandu palaces.
Syncretic statues and motifs fusing animist nature worship with early Tantric Hindu themes traced to the dynasty period.
@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fdतैले नेपाल को नागरिकता पाउनु भन्दा ८००० बर्स अघि नेपाल मा राइ लिम्बु हरु को बस्ती थियो, जुन बेला तेरो जात के हो भनेर नमुना पनि बनेको थियेन भाइ
@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd over smart condescending attitude Ur showing as U r in every comment. Let me answer your profound question so I can satisfy your quest of knowing great kirati culture hence U can sleep well or increased insomnia. We kirati are nature worshipper. We are here and enjoying life without any temple or monument or any physical structure. We still practice. Come east U will be amazed how kirati culture is running today without any physical infrastructure. People like U made us to make sumina paruhang idol but still that is not kirati philosophy. So don't be cocksure about urself.
@@ranjanrai6349 you are 100% right. Ranjitamagar and SandeshKushwaha seem to have a mission to falsely prove Kirat history wrong ( don't know why- may be sponsored!)
They don't seem to know well-established and well- accepted history of Nepal. They don't know king Prthibi Narayan Shah had recognised Rai, Limbu as Kiratis and provided them special autonomy ( Kipat ) in east Nepal long before British welcoming Rai, Limbu to Darjeeling and Sikkim. They have no idea about ancient Gopal Raj Banshawali.
चाम्लिंग सर को सम्पूर्ण अभिव्यक्ति एकदमै यथार्थ र विज्ञान मा आधारित लाग्यो र विश्वासनिय लाग्यो । जब की हामी बड़ि कथा बाचक हरू को कथा लाई नै विश्वास गरिने चलन छ।
सुशांत ज्यू र भगिराज ज्यू लाई धन्यवाद
किरातहरू, जो इतिहासका केही पाठहरूमा भील पनि भनिन्छ, प्राचीन काठमाडौं उपत्यकाका वासिन्दा थिए। यद्यपि, विभिन्न सामाजिक-राजनीतिक दबाबहरूको कारण, तिनीहरूलाई बसाइँ सर्न बाध्य पारियो। किरातहरूको ठूलो भाग काठमाडौंको पश्चिमतिर भागेर खसहरूसँग मिसियो। त्यस्तैगरी, किरातहरूको अर्को खण्ड पूर्वतर्फ बसाइँ सर्दै पूर्वी नेपाल र असमको क्षेत्रमा बसोबास गर्न पुग्यो। असममा, तिनीहरूले स्थानीय इन्डो-आर्यन असमिया जनसंख्यासँग अन्तरमिश्रण गरे, जसले तिनीहरूको सांस्कृतिक र भाषिक विरासतलाई अझै मिलायो। यस संयोजनले असमिया र नेपाली (खस) भाषाहरू बीचका साझा भाषिक र सांस्कृतिक विशेषताहरूमा योगदान पुर्यायो, जसले तिनीहरूको इन्डो-आर्यन सम्बन्धलाई प्रकाश पार्छ। यो संगै, भील भाषासँगका समानताहरूले पनि नेपाल र भारतका विभिन्न भागहरूबीचको ऐतिहासिक र सांस्कृतिक अन्तरक्रियालाई झल्काउँछ।
राई र लिम्बुहरू मूलतः मंगोलिया क्षेत्रबाट उत्पन्न भएका थिए। ७औं शताब्दीमा मंगोलियाबाट सिचुवान क्षेत्रमा बसाइँ सरेका थिए। मंगोल आक्रमणको कारणले गर्दा १३औं शताब्दीमा तिनीहरू उत्तर तिब्बततर्फ लागे। उत्तर तिब्बतबाट, अन्ततः तिनीहरू १६औं शताब्दीमा पूर्वी नेपाल र सिक्किमतर्फ शरणार्थीका रूपमा आइपुगे। त्यहाँ उनीहरूलाई लेप्चा भूस्वामीहरू र सेन राजाहरूले शरण दिएका थिए।
इमान सिंह चेम्जोङको प्रभाव: दार्जिलिङका प्रमुख इतिहासकार इमान सिंह चेम्जोङको प्रयासले यस कथालाई महत्वपूर्ण मोड दियो। चेम्जोङले किरात जातिको पहिचानलाई पुनः परिभाषित गर्न महत्त्वपूर्ण भूमिका खेले। उनले "किरात" शब्दलाई मूल किरातहरू मात्र नभएर राई र लिम्बु समुदायहरूलाई समावेश गर्न प्रयोग गरे। यो पुनःपरिभाषा रणनीतिक थियो, विशेषगरी सिक्किममा राजनीतिक शक्ति र प्रभाव हासिल गर्न यी समूहहरूलाई एकीकृत गर्नको लागि। चेम्जोङको कामले यी समूहहरूको राजनीतिक जुटानमा महत्त्वपूर्ण भूमिका खेले, जसले सिक्किममा चोग्याल सरकारको चुनौती र अन्ततः पल्टाउने प्रयास गर्यो। किरात पहिचानलाई समेटेर, चेम्जोङ र उनका समकालीनहरूले एकीकृत मोर्चा बनाउन सक्षम भए, तर यसले किरात जातिको मौलिक इतिहासलाई मेटाउन र परिमार्जन गर्नको लागि नेतृत्व गर्यो।
ऐतिहासिक मेटावटको पछाडिका राजनीतिक उद्देश्यहरू: किरात जातिको मौलिक इतिहासको मेटावट केवल ऐतिहासिक पुनर्व्याख्याको अनपेक्षित उपोत्पाद मात्र नभएर राजनीतिक उद्देश्यद्वारा प्रेरित योजनाबद्ध कार्य थियो। किरातको परिभाषालाई अन्य जातीय समूहहरूलाई समेटेर व्यापक बनाउने क्रममा, दार्जिलिङका इतिहासकारहरूले क्षेत्रको सामाजिक-राजनीतिक परिदृश्यमा थप शक्ति हासिल गर्न खोजे।
नेपाली भाषा, असमिया भाषा, र भील भाषाहरू बीचका समानताहरूले दुवै भाषाको इन्डो-आर्यन सम्बन्धलाई पुष्टि गर्छन्। किरात (भील) मानिसहरू काठमाडौं उपत्यकाबाट लिच्छविहरूको आक्रमणबाट भागेर खस र असमिया जनतासँग मिसिएको हुँदा, यी भाषाहरूमा धेरै साझा शब्दावली, व्याकरणिक संरचना, र उच्चारणका विशेषताहरू छन्। उदाहरणका लागि, असमिया र नेपाली भाषामा प्रयोग हुने धेरै शब्दहरू र तिनीहरूको उच्चारण शैली एकअर्कासँग मेल खान्छ। यसले भाषिक समानताहरूले किरात जातिको इन्डो-आर्यन जरा र तिनीहरूको सांस्कृतिक अन्तरक्रियालाई देखाउँछ।
This interview is so enlightening. Feeling great to learn. Thank you.😊😊😊
Timilsina bahun la kura bujacha rai ra limbu yo desh ko native mancha vanera
यो कुरा मलाई पनि साचो लाग्छ अहिले आएर पृथ्वी नारायण साहले गोरखनाथ बाबाको आसिर्बादले भौगोलिक एकिकरणको सपना देखे अनि सुरुआत र तयारी गरे अनि बङ्शु गुरुङ्ग, शिकारी गुरुङ्ग जस्ता योद्दाले एकिकरणमा प्रमुख भुमिका खेले ! एकिकरण गर्दै जादा पुर्बका राईहरुले अबरोध गरेकोले कल्पना नगरेको, तमु भाषा नजान्ने पुर्बको गुरुङ्ग बस्ती रुम्जाटारमा पृथी नारायण साह, भाइ बहादुर साह .. राजाहरुले राई लिम्बुहरुलाई पश्चिम तिर लडाई गर्न आउन रोक्न त्यहा बस्ती बसाईएको हो भन्ने भनाई अहिले आएर पनि राई लिम्बू ब्रोहरुको नेपाल देश हेर्ने दृस्टीकोण हेर्दा यो कुरा युक्ती सङ्ग्त लाग्छ!
Very informative, forever thankful and grateful. Jai Bhojiraj sir🎉🎉🎉🎉
I am a big fan and follower of Bhogiraj Sir. Jaat bhaatamaa najaam, he is the true essence of Nepal. 🙏🙏
During the colonial period, the British strategically brought a significant number of Limbus to Darjeeling. This move was primarily aimed at maintaining a balance of power in the region and keeping a check on the Sikkimese and the Gorkhas. The British and the Limbus together had a profound impact on the political and social dynamics of the area, often undermining the established histories and authorities of the Gorkha and Sikkim kingdoms.
The Erasure of Indigenous Histories
The actions of the Limbus, supported by the British, were particularly detrimental to the histories of the Lepcha and Bhutia communities, the original rulers of Sikkim, and the Khas Aryans and Newars, the ruling communities of Nepal. The Limbus, leveraging their strategic position, engaged in activities that led to the significant erasure of these communities' historical narratives. This erasure was so extensive that for many years, the rich histories of the Lepchas, Bhutias, Khas Aryans, and Newars were largely forgotten.
Rediscovery Through Archaeology
In recent times, archaeological discoveries have begun to uncover the long-buried histories of these communities. Excavations have revealed substantial evidence of the Khas Aryan presence in Nepal, such as the remains of the Kakre Bihar and Khas Malla Durbars, as well as the Chand Durbar and Simrangarh sites. Inscriptions in the Nepali language dating back 1,200 years, and the remnants of King Bhupal Mahipal's 1,400-year-old durbar, have further substantiated the rich historical tapestry of the Khas Aryans.
The Sen Thakuris, who ruled over Eastern Nepal for over 600 years, have also left behind numerous forts and palaces, such as the Makwanpur Gadi forts, Udayapur forts, and Bijaypur Durbar. These sites serve as tangible proof of their long-standing reign, extending into present-day Sikkim.
The Limbus and Mongolian DNA
Genetic studies have shown that the Limbus possess a high amount of Mongolian DNA, distinguishing them from other Mongoloid groups in South Asia. This genetic heritage supports the historical narrative that the Limbus, along with the Rais, migrated from the Sichuan province in China to Northern Tibet during the Mongol conquests. From there, they moved to Nepal in the 17th century, seeking refuge with the Sen kings of Nepal and the Chogyals of Sikkim.
Historical Manipulations by the Limbus
The Limbus were among the first Nepali groups to document their history, often writing it in a manner that favored their perspectives and interests. This has led to accusations of bias and misinformation. Historical accounts penned by the Limbus in the 1900s have been challenged and debunked through recent archaeological findings, which have unearthed significant evidence of the Khas Malla and other ancient kingdoms. Despite these findings, there remains a conspicuous lack of archaeological evidence supporting the long-term historical presence of the Limbus in Nepal, such as palaces, inscriptions, or other significant sites.
The interplay between the British, the Limbus, and the indigenous communities of Eastern Nepal and Sikkim has had long-lasting effects on the region's historical narrative. While the Limbus played a crucial role during the colonial period, their actions, supported by the British, led to the suppression and erasure of the histories of other significant groups. Today, ongoing archaeological discoveries are gradually restoring these lost narratives, providing a more balanced and comprehensive understanding of the region's rich and diverse history.
@ranjitamagar-ye1hv I don't know timi Kun chai ko theory ghokera ayera ya comment box ma spam haniraxau. You must be from other side of Nepal (India). Ma ni history kei student ho. You cannot rewrite the history and be delusional whatsoever. Can't change the fact by spamming the comment sections.
@@pacman3879 usle sabai kura proof ko adhar vneko cha. Kirat le Kathmandu ma raj garthyo re vneko adhar ma Hamile pataune prne? Proof khai? Durbar khai? Murti? Documented sila lekh? Euta brick dhari vetidaina, tyo tah mero jiju bajey ko soon ko hatti thiyo re vneko jasto kura vaigoni
@@pratapkhas579 Stone inscriptions and relics hinting at unnamed proto-Kirati settlements predating 500 BCE across eastern mid-hill regions of modern Nepal.
Fortification remnants, iron tools, and weapons symbolically resembling Kirati tiger emblems are buried near the Kathmandu Valley dating to the suspected dynasty era.
Scattered Licchavi records and Newari chronicles referencing rival "Kirata" tribes ruling Kathmandu Valley before the Licchavi dynasty.
Ornate carvings and architecture foundations exhibiting possible Tibeto-Burmese stylistic influences underneath Kathmandu palaces.
Syncretic statues and motifs fusing animist nature worship with early Tantric Hindu themes traced to the dynasty period.
@@pratapkhas579 bro,Gopal raj vamsavali(which was written in 14th)ma tetro lekhe ko xa ta .
The podcast missed mentioning the primary rulers of the valley, Gopal Bansi and Mahespal Bansi, which would have added valuable information for viewers. Nevertheless, I found the podcast highly enjoyable. It's crucial to prioritize such enriching content in our country's podcasts instead of focusing on gossip and fake superficial lifestyles. I hope future podcasts continue in this informative vein.
I particularly admire the presenter's eagerness to delve into ancient history. As the series progresses, I hope to see spirituality explored further, weaving its insights into the narrative. This would elevate the podcast to explore not only historical facts but also deeper cultural and spiritual dimensions. 🙏
I don´t know ...history is right or wrong but I like this kind of stories...such a wonderful podcast.❤❤❤ One thing I am not a historian but..the ` di´ word is from magar language which means water..
ruclips.net/video/AAqX4zL1iVo/видео.htmlsi=4CFNDkVAON0DaKDH
@ranjitamagar-ye1hvit's not just oral histories . There is also written history which is written in gopal raj vamsavali(a manuscript which was written in 14th century. Mind you this is before british ) and also in mahabarat there is mention of kirat dynasty it is said that the king of kirat fought along with the kauravs. So stop spreading false information.
I have also read your others comments regarding darjeeling. Let me tell we Rai and limbu of nepal never said we were the ruler of Darjeeling. And if the rais and limbus of darjeeling says so they don't know their history.
@@jeremyrai3850 Yeah the Rai, Limbu and other Nepali speaking communities in Sikkim have been playing very dirty identity politics for a long time. They don't know their real history and all those who pride themselves as Indian Gorkha have learnt fake histories about Gorkha people from their Indian school curriculums.
@@jeremyrai3850 you are 100% right. Ranjitamagar and SandeshKushwaha seem to have a mission to falsely prove Kirat history wrong.
They don't seem to know well-established and accepted history of Nepal. They don't know king Prthibi Narayan Shah had recognised Rai, Limbu as Kiratis and provided them special autonomy ( Kipat ) long before British welcoming Rai, Limbu to Darjeeling and Sikkim.
Bots haru ho. IT cell ko.
what a great remark regarding knowledge and our knowledge is not in writing but in tales or practical versions. I hope this spreading of knowledge in history telling through podcast itself Is breaking the hegemony of the written culture. great going Sushant and team for this effort. thank you Dr. Chamling expect more of the oral history...
One of d best podcast🎉🎉
Kirat Pradesh ta jabarjasti sarkarle nai Rakhdida ni kei najane rx ta❤❤
I,m Asim Kumar Pradhan from India , ur discussion with sh. Chamling ji about the Kiraties history was very knowledgeable n seems near to the facts. However, Archeology surveys yet needs more to discover the actual history of Kathmandu velly n its beginning original inhabitants .Thanks.
कतिपय ठाउँमा हाम्रो किरातीहरूको मन धुम हराउँदै गइरहेको छ यसलाई जगर्ना गर्नुपर्छ।
The Rais and Limbus were initially primitive tribes in eastern Nepal, often described as nomadic and lacking a structured society. However, their fortunes changed dramatically under British rule. The British, seeking reliable local allies, favored the Rais and Limbus, who in return supported British geopolitical interests, particularly in Sikkim. This patronage allowed the Rais and Limbus to gain significant socio-political leverage, which they used to further their own agendas.
Conflict Between Lepchas and Bhutias in Sikkim
The Lepchas and Bhutias have long been the primary ethnic groups in Sikkim. The Bhutia Chogyals ruled Sikkim for centuries, with the Lepchas playing a significant role in the kingdom's cultural and social fabric. However, the arrival and subsequent rise of the Rais and Limbus disrupted this balance.
The Rais and Limbus employed a strategy of divide and rule, learned from their British allies. They fabricated narratives suggesting a shared origin between the Lepchas and Limbus, aiming to weaken the unity between Lepchas and Bhutias. By claiming that Lepchas and Limbus were the same people, they sought to undermine Bhutia dominance and create an ethnic rift.
Moreover, the Limbus introduced a writing script purportedly derived from Tibetan and Lepcha sources, furthering their claim to a shared heritage with the Lepchas. The Bhutias, being relatively isolated mountain people, struggled to counter these sophisticated manipulations. The resulting confusion and mistrust between the Lepchas and Bhutias weakened their collective resistance against external influences, including those of the Rais and Limbus.
Instigating Conflict Between Chettri and Brahmin in Nepal
In Nepal, the Rais and Limbus attempted to exploit existing social hierarchies to create discord between the Chettri and Brahmin communities. The Chettris and Brahmins, both belonging to the Khas Arya group, have traditionally held significant political and social influence in Nepal. By fabricating stories and spreading rumors, the Rais and Limbus aimed to pit these two communities against each other.
This divide-and-rule tactic involved highlighting and exacerbating minor disputes and differences, thus fostering a climate of mistrust and rivalry. The objective was to destabilize the socio-political cohesion of the dominant groups, thereby creating opportunities for the Rais and Limbus to assert their influence.
Creating Division Between Shrestha and Maharjan
The Shrestha and Maharjan communities, integral to the Newar society of Kathmandu Valley, were not immune to the machinations of the Rais and Limbus. By manipulating historical narratives and exploiting social tensions, the Rais and Limbus sought to create divisions within the Newar community.
The Shresthas, typically of higher social status, and the Maharjans, primarily involved in agriculture and trade, were targeted through a campaign of misinformation and fabricated grievances. This strategy aimed to weaken the unity of the Newar community, making it easier for the Rais and Limbus to advance their interests.
शरणार्थी लिम्बू: सिचुवानदेखि उत्तर तिब्बतसम्म: उत्तर तिब्बतदेखि नेपाल र सिक्किमसम्मका :लिम्बूहरूको यात्रा सिचुवान प्रान्तबाट सुरु हुन्छ, जहाँ उनीहरू मूल रूपमा बसोबास गर्थे। १३ औं शताब्दीमा मंगोलहरूको आक्रमणका कारण उनीहरू आफ्नो मातृभूमि छोडेर भाग्न बाध्य भए। मंगोलहरूले सिचुवानमा ठूलो आतंक मच्चाए, जसका कारण लिम्बूहरू उत्तर तिब्बततर्फ लागे। उत्तर तिब्बतमा उनीहरूले केही समय बिताए र त्यहाँका सांस्कृतिक र भौगोलिक परिवेशसँग घुलमिल भए। उत्तर तिब्बतदेखि नेपाल र सिक्किमसम्म उत्तर तिब्बतमा बसोबास गर्न पनि कठिन भइरहेको अवस्थामा, लिम्बूहरू फेरि बसाइँ सर्न बाध्य भए। १६ औं शताब्दीको अन्त्यतिर उनीहरू दक्षिणतर्फ लागे र नेपाल तथा सिक्किममा आएर बसोबास गर्न थाले। नेपालको पूर्वी भाग र सिक्किमको विभिन्न स्थानमा उनीहरूले नयाँ जीवन सुरु गरे। नेपालमा, लिम्बूहरूलाई सेन राजाहरू र लेप्चा आदिवासीहरूले शरण दिए। सेन राजाहरूले उनीहरूलाई सुरक्षा प्रदान गरे र उनीहरूको बसोबासका लागि भूमि उपलब्ध गराए। यस्तै, सिक्किममा पनि चोग्यालहरूले उनीहरूलाई स्वागत गरे र उनीहरूलाई बसोबासका लागि सहुलियत प्रदान गरे।आनुवंशिक अध्ययनहरूले राई र लिम्बूहरूको उत्पत्तिको ठोस प्रमाण प्रदान गर्दछ। यी अध्ययनहरूले यी समुदायहरूमा मंगोलियन र उत्तरी चिनियाँ डीएनएको महत्वपूर्ण अनुपात देखाउँछन्, जसले तिनीहरूलाई भारतीय उपमहाद्वीपका अन्य तिब्बती-बर्मन समूहहरूबाट अलग गर्दछ। उनीहरूको सांस्कृतिक अभ्यास, भाषा, र परम्पराहरू पनि उत्तरी चीन र मंगोलियामा पाइनेहरूको जस्तो देखिन्छ, पूर्वी नेपालका स्वदेशी संस्कृतिहरूको भन्दा।किरात सम्बन्धको निर्माण जबकि किरात राजवंश अस्तित्वमा थियो, राई र लिम्बूहरूलाई यस प्राचीन वंशसँग जोड्ने कुनै ठोस पुरातात्विक वा ऐतिहासिक प्रमाण छैन। बरु, उनीहरूले यस क्षेत्रमा स्वदेशीको रूपमा दावा गर्न किरातसँग सम्बन्ध निर्माण गरे। प्रमुख लिम्बू इतिहासकार इमान सिंह चेम्जोङले किरात विरासतको विचारलाई बढावा दिने क्रममा यस निर्माणमा महत्वपूर्ण भूमिका खेले, जसमा राई र लिम्बूहरू समावेश थिए। यद्यपि, यो कथा लेप्चा, भुटिया, नेवार, र खस आर्य जनताको इतिहासलाई प्रायः ओझेलमा पारिदिन्थ्यो। चेम्जोङका लेखन र किरात पहिचानको राजनीतिक संगठित अभियानले अन्य जातीय इतिहासहरूको ओझेलमा योगदान पुर्यायो। ऐतिहासिक पाठ्यक्रमहरू र शैक्षिक पाठ्यक्रमहरूले किरात कथालाई जोड दिन थाले, लेप्चा र भुटियाको सिक्किममा, र नेपालमा नेवार र खस आर्यको स्थापित इतिहासहरूको खर्चमा। चेम्जोङको कामले सुदृढ पारेको किरात पहिचानको जोडले क्षेत्रीय इतिहासको पुनर्लेखन गर्यो, जसले यी अन्य समूहहरूको योगदान र विरासतलाई न्यूनतम बनायो। राई र लिम्बूहरूद्वारा किरात प्रभुत्वको लागि पुरातात्विक प्रमाणको अभाव राई र लिम्बूहरूको दावी गरिएको किरात पहिचानको एक महत्वपूर्ण आलोचना भनेको पूर्वी नेपालमा उनीहरूको दीर्घकालीन प्रभुत्वलाई समर्थन गर्ने पुरातात्विक प्रमाणहरूको अभाव हो। सेन ठाकुरी र खस मल्ल राज्यका किल्ला, दरबार, र शिलालेख जस्ता ठोस अवशेषहरूको विपरीत, राई र लिम्बूहरूमा जोडिएको किरात सभ्यतासँग सम्बन्धित पुरातात्विक स्थलहरू छैनन्। यो प्रमाणको अभावले उनीहरूको प्राचीन र स्वदेशी सम्बन्धको दावीको ऐतिहासिक सटीकतामा प्रश्न उठाउँछ।
V Interesting to know about one’s prehistoric background! If there was English subtitle, international crowd would also get to know about ancient civilisation as ours!
Bhogiraj ra Susanta jyu lai dherai dherai dhanyabad. Itihas lekhnu bhyema biswasilo dastabej hunexa ra dhan, Nam amar rahanexa.
Part 2 needed.
Chup lag na vai @ranjitamagar-ye1hv
Kina batho huna khojxas.
Spam na faila
The Kirat dynasty represents the first recognized empire of the Nepali chronology, ruling the
Kathmandu Valley and surrounding regions from roughly 800 BCE to 300 CE. While details regarding
specific rulers and events remain sparse, this critical early kingdom laid the foundations for
centralized governance, socio-cultural amalgamation, and infrastructural projects upon which later
dynasties within emerging Nepali states built upon centuries up to the modern era.
Temporal and Satial Scale
Most historians trace the Kirati imperial span across approximately 12 generations lasting over a millennium until
usurpation by the Lichhavi dynasty. At its peak circa 500 BCE, these primordial kings held sway over the Indo-Nepal
hills and Gangetic plains, sustaining control over trade routes and scattered settlements that coalesced gradually
into a unified sphere now recorded as one of Asia’s earliest Hindu civilizations. Their capital simmered in Devapatan
(present-day Gorkha) before relocating
to the Kathmandu Valley basin based on interpretations of ancient texts and enduring myths.
Origins and Early History
Ethnolinguistic Origins
Linguistic analysis links the Kirati people to Tibeto-Burman roots, sharing affinity with Rai and Limbu ethnicities populating present-day
eastern Nepal and Sikkim. This supports ethnographic positions tracing Kirat migration into Kathmandu Valley circa 700 BCE from old Zhangzhung
domains north of the Himalayas before exerting dominance. Culturally, totemic shamanism and animistic rituals connected to nature worship
characterize early documented Kirati belief patterns.
Key Discoveries
Stone inscriptions and relics hinting at unnamed proto-Kirati settlements predating 500 BCE across eastern mid-hill regions of modern Nepal.
Fortification remnants, iron tools, and weapons symbolically resembling Kirati tiger emblems are buried near the Kathmandu Valley dating to the suspected dynasty era.
Scattered Licchavi records and Newari chronicles referencing rival "Kirata" tribes ruling Kathmandu Valley before the Licchavi dynasty.
Ornate carvings and architecture foundations exhibiting possible Tibeto-Burmese stylistic influences underneath Kathmandu palaces.
Syncretic statues and motifs fusing animist nature worship with early Tantric Hindu themes traced to the dynasty period.
कमेन्ट हरु पढ्दा कम्तिमा 3 नाम बाट ( सायद नक्कली आइ डि ) लगातार लिम्बु, राई को इतिहास नकार्ने अनि उनि हरुलाई भर्खरै आएका बनाउने गलत, कपोकल्पित कमेन्ट हरु जता ततै देखिन्छ!
तिनी हरुको उद्द्यश्य बुझ्न गारो छैन - सोशल मिडिया मा यस्ता भाइरस हरु प्रसस्त भेटिन्छन - सबै जना होशियार हुनु होला!
@@mespangrai5240likhit ma prove gara
Just wow but no words now i know my root a littlebit thank you so much both
People from harisiddhi lalitpur are the direct descendants of kiratis as per my grandmother. She is too from harisiddhi and she is no more today❤❤❤
I am from harisiddi lalitpur and i never heard something like that before. Can you please explain please. I want to know more.
Kathmandu उपत्यका मा चल्ने संस्कृति हरुले पनि इतिहास को झल्को दिन्छ।
खेती संस्कृति, धान र वर्षा, आसाम का मछिन्द्रनाथ, काठमाडौंं का नाथ सम्प्रदाय, नाग सप्रदाय सबै इतिहासले संस्कृति बनाई आजसम्म निरन्तर चलिनाएको छ।
Really it was one of the best prodcast having
Bhogiraj and shusant here with. Awaiting for next podcast ??
Wonderful presentation. Congratulations. You make every Kirati proud of being a Kirati. Keep shining.
45:00 - Newari word has been converted into nepali word by adding "La" like Nepa - Nepal, Thabahi - thamel, Chabahi - chabel , CHYASA (newari meaning of 800, chya means 8, sa means 100) - Chyasal ...
It was a Chinese tradition that was adopted by Tibetans and brought down to Nepal after the 9th century.
Jaa wakheu- jawalakhel
La waakheu- lagankhel
@@theObliviousone-jf6yn even newari months have "la" in end like kaula, Gunla, Kachala but i don't think words like Nepal, Chyasal dates back to 9th century & introduced by Tibetians,..still i would be interested if i get reference of this
@@theObliviousone-jf6yn what do you mean chinese ?
Can you clarify ?
Which ethnic group ? Manchu, Han ,Xi, Tibetian... ?
What do you mean Chinese Is it same shit as Indians peddle as Hindu ?
I’m regular viewers of your all episodes. I appreciate this shows. Personally I would like to request to invite Botonist/ social researcher Kamal Maden as a guest.
नेपाल र सिक्किमका लिम्बू र राई समुदायहरू लामो समयदेखि प्राचीन किरात मानिसहरूसँग जोडिएका छन्। यद्यपि, तिनीहरूको प्राचीनतामा व्यापक विश्वास भए तापनि, यस दावीलाई समर्थन गर्न पुरातात्विक प्रमाणहरूको अभाव छ। वास्तवमा, उपलब्ध तथ्याङ्कले यी समुदायहरू प्राचीन किराताहरू होइनन् तर मङ्गोल विजयको समयमा चीनबाट बसाइँ सरेका र पछि नेपाल र सिक्किममा शरण लिएका शरणार्थीहरू हुन् भन्ने देखाउँछ।
लिम्बस र राइसको पुरातनता विरुद्धको प्राथमिक तर्कहरू मध्ये एउटा लिखित अभिलेख र पुरातात्विक स्थलहरूको अभाव हो जुन उनीहरूले यस क्षेत्रमा बसोबास गरेको विश्वास गरिएको समय अवधिको हो। यसको विपरित, त्यहाँ धेरै किल्लाहरू, दरबारहरू र शिलालेखहरू छन् जसले पूर्वी नेपाल र सिक्किममा सेन ठाकुरिस र भुटियाहरू (चोग्यालहरू) को उपस्थितिलाई प्रमाणित गर्दछ, जुन 600 वर्ष भन्दा पुरानो हो।
यसबाहेक, लिम्बस र राइसको सांस्कृतिक र भाषिक अभ्यासहरू किरात मानिसहरूसँग भन्दा मङ्गोलियन मानिसहरूसँग बढी नजिक छन्। उदाहरणका लागि, लिम्बसमा मङ्गोलियन डिएनएको महत्त्वपूर्ण मात्रा हुन्छ, जसले तिनीहरूलाई दक्षिण एसियाका अन्य मङ्गोलोइड समूहहरूबाट फरक पार्छ। यो आनुवंशिक सम्बन्ध एक बलियो सङ्केत हो कि तिनीहरू यस क्षेत्रका आदिवासी होइनन् तर मङ्गोल विजयको समयमा चीनबाट बसाइँ सरेका थिए।
17 औँ शताब्दीमा चीनबाट उत्तरी तिब्बत र त्यसपछि नेपालमा लिम्बस र रइसको बसाइँसराइ ऐतिहासिक अभिलेखहरूमा राम्रोसँग दस्तावेज गरिएको छ। उनीहरूले नेपालका सेन राजाहरू र सिक्किमका चोग्यालहरूमा शरण लिए, जसले उनीहरूलाई उनीहरूको सैन्य सेवा र सांस्कृतिक अभ्यासहरूको बदलामा सुरक्षा र भूमि प्रदान गरे।
सारांशमा, उपलब्ध प्रमाणहरूले सुझाव दिन्छ कि लिम्बस र रायहरू प्राचीन किराताहरू होइनन् तर शरणार्थीहरू हुन् जसले मङ्गोल विजयको समयमा चीनबाट बसाइँ सरे र पछि नेपाल र सिक्किममा शरण लिए। तिनीहरूको सांस्कृतिक र भाषिक अभ्यासहरू, साथै तिनीहरूको आनुवंशिक बनावट, किरात मानिसहरूसँग भन्दा मङ्गोलियन मानिसहरूसँग बढी नजिकबाट जोडिएको छ। तसर्थ, यी समुदायहरू वरपरको ऐतिहासिक कथाको पुनर्मूल्यांकन गर्न र तिनीहरूको वास्तविक उत्पत्ति र आप्रवासनलाई चिन्न आवश्यक छ।
Wowowowow Bhogi Dai kura Sunna sarai man thiyo❤❤❤ love it
खासमा अहिले जसलाई किरात भनिदै आइएको छ उनीहरूको मिथक र मुन्दुम प्रसस्तिमा किरात शब्द नै छैन ।
The Kirat Movement by Iman Singh Chemjong: A Baseless and Spiteful Endeavor
The Kirat movement, initiated by Iman Singh Chemjong, has long been celebrated as a unifying force among the ethnic groups of Eastern Nepal. However, a closer examination of historical and archaeological evidence reveals that this movement was based on a fabrication, with no substantial historical basis to support its claims. Instead, it was a spiteful and divisive campaign aimed at the Bhutia community. This essay argues that the Kirat movement was founded on falsehoods and had no legitimate grounding in the history of the region.
The Fabrication of the Kirat Identity
The term "Kirat" was strategically adopted by Iman Singh Chemjong to create a sense of unity among the Limbus, Rais, and Yakkhas. However, this identity lacks historical authenticity. Before Chemjong's intervention, these groups did not collectively identify as Kirats. The word "Kirat" itself was first used in this context by Rana Bahadur Shah and not by the indigenous communities themselves. Prithvi Narayan Shah referred to the Limbus as descendants of Yehang, not as Kirats. This indicates that the Kirat identity was an artificial construct, imposed for political purposes rather than a reflection of a genuine historical lineage.
Lack of Archaeological Evidence
The historical narrative promoted by the Kirat movement claims that the Limbus and Rais are ancient inhabitants of Eastern Nepal, integral to the region's history. However, there is a glaring lack of archaeological evidence to support this claim. Unlike the well-documented presence of the Sen Thakuri dynasty and the Bhutia Chogyals, which is evidenced by numerous forts, palaces, and inscriptions such as those at Makawanpur Gadi, Udayapur Forts, and Bijaypur Durbar, there are no corresponding sites that can be attributed to Limbu or Rai rule.
No inscriptions, palaces, or forts bear witness to a long-term Limbu presence or governance in Eastern Nepal. This absence of material evidence starkly contrasts with the rich archaeological heritage left by other ruling dynasties in the region, highlighting the lack of historical basis for the Kirat movement's claims.
Genetic and Historical Discrepancies
Genetic studies have shown that the Limbus and Rais possess a high proportion of Mongolian DNA, distinguishing them from other Tibeto-Burman ethnic groups in South Asia. This genetic evidence suggests that these communities migrated from the Sichuan province in China to northern Tibet during the Mongol conquests and later settled in Eastern Nepal in the 17th century. This migration narrative contradicts the Kirat movement's assertion of an ancient and indigenous lineage in Eastern Nepal. Instead, it positions the Limbus and Rais as relatively recent arrivals who sought refuge in the region under the patronage of local rulers, rather than as ancient inhabitants with a long-standing historical presence.
A Spiteful Movement Against the Bhutia Community
The Kirat movement was not merely an attempt to rewrite history; it was also a targeted campaign against the Bhutia community. Chemjong's efforts to foster a unified Kirat identity were driven by a desire to incite resistance and revolt against the Bhutia-dominated Kingdom of Sikkim. This movement was rooted in ethnic animosity and aimed at undermining the Bhutia community's historical and political significance in the region.
The rebranding of the Yakthung Mundhum to Kirat Mundhum was a deliberate attempt to erase the Bhutia community's contributions and presence. By promoting a false narrative of historical dominance, the Kirat movement sought to marginalize the Bhutias and assert an unsubstantiated claim to the region's heritage.
The Kirat movement, as orchestrated by Iman Singh Chemjong, was based on a lie and lacked any legitimate historical foundation. It was a spiteful and hateful campaign against the Bhutia community, aimed at rewriting history for political purposes. The lack of archaeological evidence supporting the claims of ancient Limbu rule, coupled with genetic and historical discrepancies, underscores the falsehoods at the heart of the Kirat movement. It is crucial to critically reevaluate this narrative and recognize the true historical context of Eastern Nepal and its diverse ethnic landscape. By doing so, we can ensure a more accurate and inclusive understanding of the region's history, free from the distortions and biases perpetuated by the Kirat movement.
Very interesting . Seems sound . makes one rethink ..many thanks.
Playlist banaidinus na dai..
Proper indexing vayesi audience kata badi interested xan vanera account hunxa hajur lai ni ..
नेपाल र सिक्किमका लिम्बू र राई समुदायहरू लामो समयदेखि प्राचीन किरात मानिसहरूसँग जोडिएका छन्। यद्यपि, तिनीहरूको प्राचीनतामा व्यापक विश्वास भए तापनि, यस दावीलाई समर्थन गर्न पुरातात्विक प्रमाणहरूको अभाव छ। वास्तवमा, उपलब्ध तथ्याङ्कले यी समुदायहरू प्राचीन किराताहरू होइनन् तर मङ्गोल विजयको समयमा चीनबाट बसाइँ सरेका र पछि नेपाल र सिक्किममा शरण लिएका शरणार्थीहरू हुन् भन्ने देखाउँछ।
लिम्बस र राइसको पुरातनता विरुद्धको प्राथमिक तर्कहरू मध्ये एउटा लिखित अभिलेख र पुरातात्विक स्थलहरूको अभाव हो जुन उनीहरूले यस क्षेत्रमा बसोबास गरेको विश्वास गरिएको समय अवधिको हो। यसको विपरित, त्यहाँ धेरै किल्लाहरू, दरबारहरू र शिलालेखहरू छन् जसले पूर्वी नेपाल र सिक्किममा सेन ठाकुरिस र भुटियाहरू (चोग्यालहरू) को उपस्थितिलाई प्रमाणित गर्दछ, जुन 600 वर्ष भन्दा पुरानो हो।
यसबाहेक, लिम्बस र राइसको सांस्कृतिक र भाषिक अभ्यासहरू किरात मानिसहरूसँग भन्दा मङ्गोलियन मानिसहरूसँग बढी नजिक छन्। उदाहरणका लागि, लिम्बसमा मङ्गोलियन डिएनएको महत्त्वपूर्ण मात्रा हुन्छ, जसले तिनीहरूलाई दक्षिण एसियाका अन्य मङ्गोलोइड समूहहरूबाट फरक पार्छ। यो आनुवंशिक सम्बन्ध एक बलियो सङ्केत हो कि तिनीहरू यस क्षेत्रका आदिवासी होइनन् तर मङ्गोल विजयको समयमा चीनबाट बसाइँ सरेका थिए।
17 औँ शताब्दीमा चीनबाट उत्तरी तिब्बत र त्यसपछि नेपालमा लिम्बस र रइसको बसाइँसराइ ऐतिहासिक अभिलेखहरूमा राम्रोसँग दस्तावेज गरिएको छ। उनीहरूले नेपालका सेन राजाहरू र सिक्किमका चोग्यालहरूमा शरण लिए, जसले उनीहरूलाई उनीहरूको सैन्य सेवा र सांस्कृतिक अभ्यासहरूको बदलामा सुरक्षा र भूमि प्रदान गरे।
सारांशमा, उपलब्ध प्रमाणहरूले सुझाव दिन्छ कि लिम्बस र रायहरू प्राचीन किराताहरू होइनन् तर शरणार्थीहरू हुन् जसले मङ्गोल विजयको समयमा चीनबाट बसाइँ सरे र पछि नेपाल र सिक्किममा शरण लिए। तिनीहरूको सांस्कृतिक र भाषिक अभ्यासहरू, साथै तिनीहरूको आनुवंशिक बनावट, किरात मानिसहरूसँग भन्दा मङ्गोलियन मानिसहरूसँग बढी नजिकबाट जोडिएको छ। तसर्थ, यी समुदायहरू वरपरको ऐतिहासिक कथाको पुनर्मूल्यांकन गर्न र तिनीहरूको वास्तविक उत्पत्ति र आप्रवासनलाई चिन्न आवश्यक छ।
Thank you for this podcast, I feel more knowledgeable about my own culture after listening to this podcast. 🙏
Worth listening podcast, such a deep understanding with simplistic explanation, much respect for your works Bhogiraj, oral tradition is alive, eg Mundhum is a science and story telling passed from generations to generations from ancestors. We have rich history of cultures, stories, traitions, true Nepalese identities should be promoted and saved and be proud of it.
There is no historical evidence of kirat ruling in Kathmandu everything is based on ' re ' not a single brick of archiloglical evidence is provided by kirat community to back up their stories we can tell the gopalas we're the first kings of Kathmandu valley because of foundations of pashupati, where as kirat claim they ruled over 25000 years but not a single stone carving exist to back up their claim ruling in kathmandu and east part of nepal, let's say for once kirat ruled over whole nepal!!! Then why is not even 10 percent of population speaking kirati who ruled for thousand of years and when asked to show the evidence of kirat and limbu ruling in east they often point out to forts and durbars of vijaypur & chaudandi built by mukunda sen which is well preserved and documented, only people of Kathmandu valley were real Nepali, rest of 54 kingdoms were never been part of nepal, since gorkha unified rest of 22 24 thakuri small kingdoms plus land of terai which belong to india manang mustang which belong to Tibet khas empire, kings of gorkha has legitimate right to call it a gorkha land unlike bhutias and north eastern Indian who have stolen the name gorkha land in sikkim & dorjeeling now darjeeling
भाेगीराजजीकाे कुरासुन्दा अति राम्राे लाग्याे । उपत्यकका ज्यापुकाे भाषा र किरातिकाे भाषा कति मात्रामा मेलखाल्छ ?
सारै मज्जा लाग्यो इतिहासका कुराहरु❤❤❤❤❤❤
Thank you sushant for presenting this important season
कस्तो intresting कहानी सुनाउनुभयो। किरातीहरुको संस्कार बारेको किताब कहाँ पाइन्छ होला।
Very insightful, based on facts and non bias.
भोगीराज चाम्लिङ ज्यूको अथाह ज्ञान सुन्न पाइयो । अवसर जुटाइ दिनु हुने सुशान्त जीलाई धेरै धन्यवाद ।
seedha seedha bhan na. You have no proof of being there. Even a cavemen leaves a mark wherever he goes. Limbus have no mark in Eastern Nepal or sikkim. Just written histories during the british time. Limbus helped british to make sikkim a protectorate of British empire. The british helped them establish fake history.DNA test le prove garisakeko cha Rai, Limbu mongolia ko refugee ho Bhutia le uniharulai saran dieko ho. Sojha bhutia lai ullu banaera aile purai sikkim afno claim garisakyo
@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd Kasaile Sikkim claim gaeko chaina muji vele.
Sikim vaneko sikimese haruko ho Limbu haru ko haina. Limbu haru Limbuwan ko ho . Tya ko sabai Limbuharulai thaha cha Tineru Limbuwan current Nepal bata Rana and Shah rule ko bela migrate vako ho vanera. History trace garnu laga ani Harek Limbu ko last 2000 years ko history Nepal ko Limbuwan ma vetxas muji. Harek post ma comment garya xa basya xa.
@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd The Kirat dynasty represents the first recognized empire of the Nepali chronology, ruling the
Kathmandu Valley and surrounding regions from roughly 800 BCE to 300 CE. While details regarding
specific rulers and events remain sparse, this critical early kingdom laid the foundations for
centralized governance, socio-cultural amalgamation, and infrastructural projects upon which later
dynasties within emerging Nepali states built upon centuries up to the modern era.
Temporal and Satial Scale
Most historians trace the Kirati imperial span across approximately 12 generations lasting over a millennium until
usurpation by the Lichhavi dynasty. At its peak circa 500 BCE, these primordial kings held sway over the Indo-Nepal
hills and Gangetic plains, sustaining control over trade routes and scattered settlements that coalesced gradually
into a unified sphere now recorded as one of Asia’s earliest Hindu civilizations. Their capital simmered in Devapatan
(present-day Gorkha) before relocating
to the Kathmandu Valley basin based on interpretations of ancient texts and enduring myths.
Origins and Early History
Ethnolinguistic Origins
Linguistic analysis links the Kirati people to Tibeto-Burman roots, sharing affinity with Rai and Limbu ethnicities populating present-day
eastern Nepal and Sikkim. This supports ethnographic positions tracing Kirat migration into Kathmandu Valley circa 700 BCE from old Zhangzhung
domains north of the Himalayas before exerting dominance. Culturally, totemic shamanism and animistic rituals connected to nature worship
characterize early documented Kirati belief patterns.
Key Discoveries
Stone inscriptions and relics hinting at unnamed proto-Kirati settlements predating 500 BCE across eastern mid-hill regions of modern Nepal.
Fortification remnants, iron tools, and weapons symbolically resembling Kirati tiger emblems are buried near the Kathmandu Valley dating to the suspected dynasty era.
Scattered Licchavi records and Newari chronicles referencing rival "Kirata" tribes ruling Kathmandu Valley before the Licchavi dynasty.
Ornate carvings and architecture foundations exhibiting possible Tibeto-Burmese stylistic influences underneath Kathmandu palaces.
Syncretic statues and motifs fusing animist nature worship with early Tantric Hindu themes traced to the dynasty period.
@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fddo you know anything about ancient Swayambhu puran which clearly mentions where kiratis went after lichchhabi's victory?
Do Naga and Mizo people have archeological structures to prove they are indigenous to their homelands?
Do you know anything about king Prithbi Narayan Shah's treaties with Rai Limbu?
Do you know until panchayat rule east Nepal was divided into and called wallo kirat, maajh kirat and pallo kirat?
Read Baburam Acharya, Janak Lal Sharma and Professor Dor Bahadur Bista to know who Rai Limbu are.
By the way, why are you trying to mislead others? What is the reason behind your campaign against Rai Limbu people???
@@user2234yd Sikkim ma limbu haru le claim garera bhutia lepcha lai hairan garirako cha. I just came from that facebook page. The people of Sikkim are quite disturbed by the habit of limbus of making up history. They were claiming Eastern Nepal, Sikkim, Bhutan and Assam were craved out of LImbuwan land which is a total bullshit. Limbus came to nepal 400 years ago. That's it. DNA tests shows high mongolian admixture up to 50%
Thank you so much for this Podcast. Ekdum important topic ma cover garnu bhayo.
राम्रो लागेर दोस्रो पटक सुन्दैछु यो episode
कमेन्ट हरु पढ्दा कम्तिमा 3 नाम बाट ( सायद नक्कली आइ. डि. ) लगातार लिम्बु, राई को इतिहास नकार्ने अनि उनि हरुलाई भर्खरै आएका बनाउने गलत, कपोकल्पित कमेन्ट हरु जता ततै देखिन्छ!
तिनी हरुको उद्द्यश्य बुझ्न गारो छैन - सोशल मिडिया मा यस्ता भाइरस हरु प्रसस्त भेटिन्छन - सबै जना होशियार हुनु होला!
Yesko answer dinu na
Excelent explanation... धेरै धेरै धन्यवाद 🕉️🕉️🕉️🙏🙏🙏
Rai ko xoroharumapani knowledge ko kami xaina vanne chai yo episode herera prasta hunx .keep going on sir keep working to kiraty culture n people... more....
Tapai rai ho?
Exactly bro kirat. Boudhi ra hindu hamro moulik dharma ho suru ma kirati haru ani hindi ani boudhik dharma nepal ma aako ho we should save.... euta kirati christain huna sakcha euta hindu christain ma pariwaartan huna sakcha tara euta christain bhayeko manche farkindaina eti samma ki 10 barsa ko love bhayeni christain ma convert hunna bhanyo bhaney uni harule chodidinchan... no freedom in two religion xtain ani muslim .hami harulai ekarka ma ladara desh lai xtain ra muslim desh banauna lagiraxaan
Raiharu chhetri bahun vnda kam xoen ho nplma... Rajya satta matrai bahunko hatma x so Sable bahunko jhola boker aafulai das nabanau
@@mandeepkatwal1270fact yo desh suruma hindu kirat sangsanai milera samaj baseko thyo.aba Christian ley bistapit garla jasto vo
@@mandeepkatwal1270 The Limbus and Rais: Rewriting the History of Nepal's Darjeeling Hills
The history of the Limbus and Rais in the Darjeeling hills has long been shrouded in myth and misinformation. Contrary to the popular narrative propagated by these groups, there is little archaeological evidence to suggest they were the ancient Kiratas who ruled over Eastern Nepal for centuries.
In reality, the available evidence points to a very different story. The Sen Thakuris, not the Limbus or Rais, were the dominant rulers of Eastern Nepal for over 600 years. Their legacy is evident in the numerous forts, palaces and inscriptions that dot the landscape, such as the Makawanpur Gadi, Udayapur Forts and Bijaypur Durbar. Similarly, the Bhutias (Chogyals) established a strong presence in Sikkim during this period.
Yet, through the patronage of the British in Darjeeling, the Limbus and Rais were able to gain an education and subsequently rewrite the history of the region in a way that placed them at the center. Leveraging the lack of written records among the Nepali populace, who were restricted from literacy under Rana rule, these groups crafted a mythical narrative of ancient Kirata kingships and oral traditions to bolster their claims.
Tellingly, this revised history lacks any substantive archaeological or documentary evidence to back it up. Instead, it relies heavily on unverified "oral histories" that conveniently align with the Limbus' and Rais' desire to be recognized as the rightful indigenous rulers of the Darjeeling hills.
Further undermining their claims is the genetic evidence, which reveals a strong Mongolian ancestry among the Limbus and Rais that distinguishes them from other Mongoloid groups in South Asia. This suggests they were likely refugees who migrated from China's Sichuan province to Tibet during the Mongol conquests, before eventually seeking shelter with the Sen kings of Nepal and the Chogyals of Sikkim in the 17th century.
In essence, the Limbus and Rais, with the aid of the British, have succeeded in rewriting the history of Nepal's Darjeeling hills in a way that erases the legitimate claims of the Bhutias, Khas Aryas and Newars. This biased, Limbu-centric narrative has left historians grappling with a distorted understanding of the region's true past. Only by confronting this revisionist history with the weight of archaeological and genetic evidence can the record be set straight.
Salute to Bhogiraj sir & Sushant ❤❤
Very true and logical podcast
ज्ञानबर्दक लाग्याे येस कुराकानि😊😊
Seworo..Ko ko Rai haru xam,like garum tw hjr..
मैले सुन्न चाहेको Podcast ❤❤
मौखिक इतिहासको महत्व यति धेरै हुने रै'छ, छर्लंग भयो। सरको किताब पनि हेर्न पाइयोस्।
Thank you sir for sharing very informative knowledge about ours history, especially mundum ,kirati 🙏🙏
Thanks for this episode. More interesting. Ani hamro savyata ra sanskriti ka bisaya ma aru pani video liyera aanus. Coming generaration lai vannu important xa. Yesto podcast ra aru short videos bata information spark garnu helpful hunusakxa. Thanks.❤
really interesting story ❤❤thanks for conducting this program for organizers ❤❤
Bhoj sir tapai ko int. Sune hamro sikxà pernali ma paribartan hunu parxa.,jadibuti ra kheti pati pasu pannxi ra jhakri,dhami ,boksi aadi dibya gyan ko bare ma adhhyan garnu parda.comments ma lekher sakidain.bhoj ra Sushant sir Dubai lai dhanyabad xa.
Time is now. History repeats itself.
inviting bharat dahal, saurabh and biksasananda will change the dimention of this show.
राय लिम्बू किराती होइनन्, सिचुवानबाट आएका शरणार्थी हुन् : इतिहासले देखाउँछ कि राय र लिम्बू समुदायहरू मूलत: सिचुवान क्षेत्रबाट आएका शरणार्थी हुन्। ७ औं शताब्दीमा यी समूहहरू मंगोलियाबाट सिचुवान क्षेत्रमा पुगे। १३ औं शताब्दीमा, मंगोल आक्रमणहरूबाट बच्न यी समूहहरू उत्तर तिब्बततिर भागे। १६ औं शताब्दीको अन्त्यतिर, तिब्बतमा भएको जातीय उथलपुथलका कारण, यी समूहहरू नेपाल र सिक्किमतिर शरणार्थीका रूपमा प्रवेश गरे। यसरी, यी समूहहरूको नेपालमा प्रवेश आदिवासी मान्यताका मापदण्डहरू अन्तर्गत ऐतिहासिक निरन्तरतामा अट्दैन।
भिल: पूर्वी नेपालका वास्तविक किरातीहरू: भिल समुदायलाई पूर्वी नेपालको वास्तविक किराती मानिन्छ। जब राय र लिम्बूहरू १६ औं शताब्दीको अन्त्यतिर सिचुवानबाट शरणार्थीका रूपमा नेपाल आए, उनीहरूले भिल समुदायमाथि नरसंहार गरे। यस कारण, भिलहरू पूर्वी नेपालबाट बंगालतिर भाग्न बाध्य भए, जहाँ पहिले नै धेरै भिलहरू बसेका थिए। यसले देखाउँछ कि राय र लिम्बूहरू शरणार्थी हुन्, र तिनीहरूको आदिवासी मान्यता गलत छ।
दोषपूर्ण आदिवासी मान्यता मापदण्डहरू: नेपालमा आदिवासी मान्यता प्राप्त गर्नका लागि नेपाल आदिवासी जनजाति महासंघ (NEFIN) र सरकारले अपनाएका मापदण्डहरूमा केही दोषहरू छन्। यी मापदण्डहरूले राय र लिम्बू समुदायहरूलाई कसरी अन्यायपूर्ण रूपमा आदिवासी मान्यता दिलाएका छन् भन्ने कुरालाई निम्न बुँदाहरूले स्पष्ट पार्छन्:
१. ऐतिहासिक निरन्तरता: राय र लिम्बू समुदायहरूको नेपालमा ऐतिहासिक उपस्थिति सिचुवानबाट शरणार्थीका रूपमा आएका कारण मात्र भएकोले, उनीहरूको ऐतिहासिक निरन्तरता दावी कमजोर छ। तथापि, मापदण्डहरूको अस्पष्टताले गर्दा, यी समूहहरूलाई पनि आदिवासी मान्यता प्राप्त गर्न अनुमति दिएको छ।
२. विशिष्ट भाषा: राय र लिम्बूहरूको आफ्नै भाषा छ, जुन विशिष्ट भाषाको मापदण्ड पूरा गर्छ। तर यो भाषा सिचुवानको सांस्कृतिक प्रभाव भएको हुन सक्छ, जसले गर्दा यो आदिवासी भाषा मान्न उपयुक्त छैन।
३. विशिष्ट संस्कृति र परम्परा: राय र लिम्बूहरूले सिचुवानबाट ल्याएका सांस्कृतिक अभ्यासहरू र परम्पराहरूलाई सुरक्षित राखेका छन्। तर, यी परम्पराहरू नेपालका आदिवासी परम्पराहरू हुन् भन्ने कुरा पुष्टि हुँदैन।
४. आत्म-पहिचान: कुनै पनि समूहले आफूलाई विशिष्ट रूपमा आत्म-पहिचान गर्न सक्छ, तर यो अत्यन्त व्यक्तिपरक मापदण्ड हो। राय र लिम्बूहरूले आफूलाई किरातीको रूपमा आत्म-पहिचान गरेका छन्, तर उनीहरूको वास्तविक उत्पत्ति सिचुवानमा रहेकोले यो आत्म-पहिचानको दावी कमजोर छ।
५. भौगोलिक पृथकता: राय र लिम्बूहरूले केही हदसम्म भौगोलिक पृथकतामा रहेर बसोबास गरेका छन्। तथापि, यो पृथकता नेपालमा आएको शरणार्थी स्थितिको परिणाम हो, न कि आदिवासी मापदण्ड अनुसार।
Kun chai paagal aaye6 feri😂😂 limbu haru Kati barsa aghi ko ho history Thaa na bhae k j paayo tei lekheko…. Itihas maa limbu ko calendar vanda purano calendar x vaney lyayera dekha ani ma manxu ki limbu sarnathi ho ki newar……kirat raajya huda newar vanne jaat pani thiyena hola sayad… ramro adyan gar….
Tw khate pahila buj Ani bol
Thanks a lot. Absolutely fascinating presentation.
ईतिहास विदसंग एकचोटी भेट भाथ्यो। अथाह ज्ञानको खानि नै हुनुहुदो रहेछ।
Sushant Sir , we want to know about Tamang history ,could you please invite the guest who can deliver history of Tamang History , it would be really appreciated. Thank you ,From Uk
The collision of the two tectonic plates, one from the south and the other from the north is said to have caused the land to buckle creating the Himalayan range. The southern tectonic plate perhaps is still in the process of pushing itself under the northern plate leading to frequent earthquakes in the geological sense. I am subscribing because this is how you preserve factual history. Taking into account the assumptions, could it not be people in Kathmandu developed the rice cultivation rather than those who came from assam? Since this valley was a lake, the land was without doubt appropriate for growing rice. Assam being around Brahmaputra basin had their own rice growing land in plenty. Would they travel to Kathmandu or move over to the gangetic plains? Why would they move to Kathmandu?
Thank you so much for this information. I would love to know more about The Mundhum.
Dhanyabad Shushant Pradhan❤
I heard about the Kathmandu valley was known as the Kantipur in 18th century. It was the time of mallah dynasty. The Kathmandu Valley is surrounded by four major mountain ranges: Shivapuri, Phulchoki, Nagarjun, and Chandragiri. These hills provide natural boundaries and have historically offered protection against invasions. You mentioned Munda Tribe and I hope they are originally rooted from Jharkhand, India now earlier Bihar
Dherai etihash bujna payo Dhanyabat 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
The historical information on Chyasal of Patan was striking.
Section on "natural medicines' was impressive.
jhapa mantri chowk ko nitai ko barema khojnu huss uha lay vane jasto vachieko haddi jodincha yadi haddi sano sano gari futeko xaena vane
Great brother keep searching our nepali history ❤❤
Tha k you sushant bro sewa sewaro 🙏
नेपाल र सिक्किमका लिम्बू र राई समुदायहरू लामो समयदेखि प्राचीन किरात मानिसहरूसँग जोडिएका छन्। यद्यपि, तिनीहरूको प्राचीनतामा व्यापक विश्वास भए तापनि, यस दावीलाई समर्थन गर्न पुरातात्विक प्रमाणहरूको अभाव छ। वास्तवमा, उपलब्ध तथ्याङ्कले यी समुदायहरू प्राचीन किराताहरू होइनन् तर मङ्गोल विजयको समयमा चीनबाट बसाइँ सरेका र पछि नेपाल र सिक्किममा शरण लिएका शरणार्थीहरू हुन् भन्ने देखाउँछ।
लिम्बस र राइसको पुरातनता विरुद्धको प्राथमिक तर्कहरू मध्ये एउटा लिखित अभिलेख र पुरातात्विक स्थलहरूको अभाव हो जुन उनीहरूले यस क्षेत्रमा बसोबास गरेको विश्वास गरिएको समय अवधिको हो। यसको विपरित, त्यहाँ धेरै किल्लाहरू, दरबारहरू र शिलालेखहरू छन् जसले पूर्वी नेपाल र सिक्किममा सेन ठाकुरिस र भुटियाहरू (चोग्यालहरू) को उपस्थितिलाई प्रमाणित गर्दछ, जुन 600 वर्ष भन्दा पुरानो हो।
यसबाहेक, लिम्बस र राइसको सांस्कृतिक र भाषिक अभ्यासहरू किरात मानिसहरूसँग भन्दा मङ्गोलियन मानिसहरूसँग बढी नजिक छन्। उदाहरणका लागि, लिम्बसमा मङ्गोलियन डिएनएको महत्त्वपूर्ण मात्रा हुन्छ, जसले तिनीहरूलाई दक्षिण एसियाका अन्य मङ्गोलोइड समूहहरूबाट फरक पार्छ। यो आनुवंशिक सम्बन्ध एक बलियो सङ्केत हो कि तिनीहरू यस क्षेत्रका आदिवासी होइनन् तर मङ्गोल विजयको समयमा चीनबाट बसाइँ सरेका थिए।
17 औँ शताब्दीमा चीनबाट उत्तरी तिब्बत र त्यसपछि नेपालमा लिम्बस र रइसको बसाइँसराइ ऐतिहासिक अभिलेखहरूमा राम्रोसँग दस्तावेज गरिएको छ। उनीहरूले नेपालका सेन राजाहरू र सिक्किमका चोग्यालहरूमा शरण लिए, जसले उनीहरूलाई उनीहरूको सैन्य सेवा र सांस्कृतिक अभ्यासहरूको बदलामा सुरक्षा र भूमि प्रदान गरे।
सारांशमा, उपलब्ध प्रमाणहरूले सुझाव दिन्छ कि लिम्बस र रायहरू प्राचीन किराताहरू होइनन् तर शरणार्थीहरू हुन् जसले मङ्गोल विजयको समयमा चीनबाट बसाइँ सरे र पछि नेपाल र सिक्किममा शरण लिए। तिनीहरूको सांस्कृतिक र भाषिक अभ्यासहरू, साथै तिनीहरूको आनुवंशिक बनावट, किरात मानिसहरूसँग भन्दा मङ्गोलियन मानिसहरूसँग बढी नजिकबाट जोडिएको छ। तसर्थ, यी समुदायहरू वरपरको ऐतिहासिक कथाको पुनर्मूल्यांकन गर्न र तिनीहरूको वास्तविक उत्पत्ति र आप्रवासनलाई चिन्न आवश्यक छ।
@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fdtaro guff Sunda raxaul tira KO tapare dhoti jasto suninxa ni... Am I correct?
Kirat is now present northeast tripuraa
Excellent Presentation.
one of the best episode , full of unheard knowledge
This show never disappoints me ❤❤❤❤
@ranjitamagar-ye1hv The Kirat dynasty represents the first recognized empire of the Nepali chronology, ruling the
Kathmandu Valley and surrounding regions from roughly 800 BCE to 300 CE. While details regarding
specific rulers and events remain sparse, this critical early kingdom laid the foundations for
centralized governance, socio-cultural amalgamation, and infrastructural projects upon which later
dynasties within emerging Nepali states built upon centuries up to the modern era.
Temporal and Satial Scale
Most historians trace the Kirati imperial span across approximately 12 generations lasting over a millennium until
usurpation by the Lichhavi dynasty. At its peak circa 500 BCE, these primordial kings held sway over the Indo-Nepal
hills and Gangetic plains, sustaining control over trade routes and scattered settlements that coalesced gradually
into a unified sphere now recorded as one of Asia’s earliest Hindu civilizations. Their capital simmered in Devapatan
(present-day Gorkha) before relocating
to the Kathmandu Valley basin based on interpretations of ancient texts and enduring myths.
Origins and Early History
Ethnolinguistic Origins
Linguistic analysis links the Kirati people to Tibeto-Burman roots, sharing affinity with Rai and Limbu ethnicities populating present-day
eastern Nepal and Sikkim. This supports ethnographic positions tracing Kirat migration into Kathmandu Valley circa 700 BCE from old Zhangzhung
domains north of the Himalayas before exerting dominance. Culturally, totemic shamanism and animistic rituals connected to nature worship
characterize early documented Kirati belief patterns.
Key Discoveries
Stone inscriptions and relics hinting at unnamed proto-Kirati settlements predating 500 BCE across eastern mid-hill regions of modern Nepal.
Fortification remnants, iron tools, and weapons symbolically resembling Kirati tiger emblems are buried near the Kathmandu Valley dating to the suspected dynasty era.
Scattered Licchavi records and Newari chronicles referencing rival "Kirata" tribes ruling Kathmandu Valley before the Licchavi dynasty.
Ornate carvings and architecture foundations exhibiting possible Tibeto-Burmese stylistic influences underneath Kathmandu palaces.
Syncretic statues and motifs fusing animist nature worship with early Tantric Hindu themes traced to the dynasty period.
Super like yo episode lai….👍
खै उनको कुरामा एउटापनी सत्यता देखीन मैले।
Wow! So Interesting History 🙏Sir
The Migration of Rais and Limbus from Sichuan to Tibet to Nepal in 17th Century
Eastern Nepal boasts a rich tapestry of ethnicities, each adding a vibrant thread to the region's cultural identity. The Limbus and Rais are prominent among them, but unlike the Sen Thakuris whose reign is documented in stone, their origins remain shrouded in mystery. This chapter argues that the archaeological and historical evidence points towards a recent migration for the Limbus and Rais, rather than a direct connection to the ancient Kiratas, and positions them as refugees seeking refuge amidst the political turmoil of the 17th century.
The archaeological landscape of Eastern Nepal presents a contrasting picture. The Sen Thakuris, who ruled for over six centuries, left behind a legacy in stone. Forts like Makawanpur, Udayapur, and Bijaypur, along with remnants in present-day Sikkim, stand as testaments to their centralized power and established kingdom. These structures not only solidify their long-standing presence but also highlight their administrative capabilities.
In contrast, the archaeological footprint of the Limbus and Rais remains elusive. Their settlements, often nestled in the foothills, might not have been conducive to monumental architecture. Additionally, their cultural practices, relying heavily on oral traditions, leave a less readily apparent mark on the historical record. However, the absence of grand palaces doesn't negate their existence; it merely points towards a different mode of life.
While some scholars posit a connection between the Limbus and Rais and the ancient Kiratis mentioned in Indian texts, the exact location of the Kirat remains debated. It's possible that the Kirati people represent an ancestral link, but the archaeological and historical evidence suggests a more recent arrival for the Limbus and Rais themselves.
A compelling argument for a recent migration emerges from the upheaval caused by the Mongol conquests of the 13th-14th centuries. The vast displacement of populations across Asia during this period suggests that the Limbus and Rais, originally residing in Sichuan province in China or neighboring areas, might have been caught in this wave. This theory aligns with the suggestion that they first migrated to Northern Tibet before eventually reaching Nepal.
The 17th century in Nepal witnessed a period of political instability with the weakening of the Malla dynasty in Kathmandu. This power vacuum in the east might have presented an opportunity for the Limbus and Rais, seeking refuge from the aftermath of the Mongol conquests, to establish themselves in the foothills.
Interestingly, both the Sen kings of Eastern Nepal and the Chogyals of Sikkim employed Limbu and Rai soldiers. This suggests a period of accommodation where these newly arrived communities offered their military prowess in exchange for a safe haven. Over time, this integration process likely involved cultural exchange and adaptation, shaping the unique social fabric of Eastern Nepal that we see today.
ruclips.net/video/AAqX4zL1iVo/видео.htmlsi=kZ_trngVKhopQ_X3
ruclips.net/video/AAqX4zL1iVo/видео.htmlsi=kZ_trngVKhopQ_X3
@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd stop this fucking bulshit 😂😂chill bro
@@SandeshKushwaha-tl2fd "Tapestry"...i know a chatGPT sentence when i see one.
Great podcast. Just one suggestion, it would be good if the guests share the link of the source that they are referring to so others can refer.
Thank you , very informative 🙏🏻
Mundhum ko barema aajhai dhera hami kirati rai haru aajhai dherai jagnu parne hunchha jay kirat proud to be Rai
भोगिराज सरको ज्ञानको ५% मात्र यस episode मा थाहा भयो। अझ बढी जानकारी थाहा पाउन धेरै episodes बनाउन जरुरी छ।
Dharae ramro podcast aajhai vasa varna jat bara bisesh chalfal vayako podcast launu paryo
A very good theory from him about, how the lake got drained but it is just a theory. I believe the lake draining was not a natural phenomenon but an engineering project by the inhabitants of the hills surrounding the valley. If the Egyptians could build pyramids so many thousands of years ago, why do we have to think less of our ancestors. Its a mere lake draining project. Thousands of people working under the command of either Manjushree or Krishna or any regular Joe could have done it!
Joy boy from one piece 😅
Smarat Ashok kaal samma pani ktm Valley ma Sano size ko lake still exist gartyo , pokhari ma Kamal ko ful ropiyeko tiyo bhanera Chinese traveler Hang seng ko Yatra bibaran ma lekhiyeko cha..
yesko matlab ktm valley ko lake Naturally ra human interference ma bistarai sukdai gayeko ho bhanne very Clearly bujna sakincha..
Baki Rakchas , Krishna etc stories seems very in logic and nonsense..
Aile samma ktm ma veda xan egypt ma pyramid bano vanera hunxa??
@@SussanRaihow joyboy.? 😅
Thank you for your wonderful content 🙏
We need part 2.
Thank you so much for the history and also expecting more history about Nepal .