Joey Votto - The Hall of Fame Case
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- Hey everyone!
Since this channel has gotten bigger, a lot more people have given suggestions on who I should cover in this series. As you may have seen, I put out a poll on who I should cover next. The clear winner was Joey Votto. While Votto is probably a few years away from retiring and won't be eligible for the hall of fame until the end of the decade, he has one of the more interesting cases because of how unique he is. Should Joey Votto make the hall of fame?
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Another awesome vid!
Hiya MLB
Can we get him in the “ HALL OF FAME
Wow the MLB itself only got 19 likes that is funny
19 So HOF.
🐐 Status
@@staciemohler4624 I'm hoping someone's reply gets more likes than theirs. 🤣🤣🤣
As a Cards fan, I get to watch Votto quite a bit. He’s definitely HOF worthy. Great eye for the ball and will take his walks instead of chasing and racking up K’s. Also has a great glove
Fine chivalry there.....Could I be so appreciative of a Buc ,Nat, Brave, Dodger, Met, or Marlin? No, the damn Fish!
I'm a reds fans and I almost exclusively watch the games we play against other central teams, vottos patience is his virtue he's a really steady leader and a excellent fielder, he's a HOFer easily he's gonna play 3 more years at this pace at least he's still doing so well
Our best team since I've been alive was when we had phillips, Jay Bruce, votto, drew stubbs some old pitchers a young cueto, young Chapman maybe in 2010 was they year but our division is the toughest in baseball theirs been several years where the reds have missed the playoffs with a great record just the brewers, pirates, cardinals all have a better record and the pirates get the wild card and we get nothing even tho in a different division we would be in the playoffs
Also a Redbird fan, I've loved watching Votto all these years. Really, it's a shame the he has only played for Cincinnati, almost seems like a waste of a great player.
Fr people forget that he was an excellent fielder
As a Reds Fan I should say I am still very very very bitter Joey didn’t get NL MVP in 2017, he was automatic that second half
I agree, he should have won it that year.
I would have voted Stanton for MVP but I wouldn’t have hated it if Votto won. I think we forget just how amazing of a hitter Stanton was that season though due to how he’s kinda underperformed as a Yankee.
NegroKetchum I think Votto edged him slightly out that year. Votto had the higher OPS, wRC+, wOBA. But I think voters ultimately saw the 59 homers from Stanton as being worthy of the vote.
RedsFan15 I’m a big stat head, trust me. But the fact remains that Stanton was less valuable than Stanton by a mere margin of .3 WAR. If you factor in consistency over the season and Marlins Park being a pitchers park, I see no reason as to not give the edge to Stanton. I mean advanced stats are cool and all but sometimes just asking how these two would fare in each other’s parks is good indication of their values as hitter. Stanton without juice could have very well hit 70. But hypotheticals don’t really matter.
NegroKetchum wRC+ is park adjusted
He’s right on the line, but if he was a Yankee or a Red Sox player.....he’d be a lock.
Probably
He's a first ballot lock
@@diddlez2 no way a lock....is borderline
@@pullt absolute lock
@@legochickenguy4938 Larkin made it with 2300 hits....no way Jeter doesn't get in on the Reds lol
He’s essentially sealed his Hall case over the last 5 weeks. And it was remarkable to witness as a baseball fan.
lol, he is 40 yrs old and just got his 2,000th hit.
he just got his 1,600th strikeout now and has a sub.300 career average while playing in a little league joke park
now try show me a HOF player who had more strikeouts than hits in 4 straight seasons.. Votto has done this last 4 seasons lol
@@KEALOHA-ju4jmand your just gonna forget about what he did from 2007-2018?
@@KEALOHA-ju4jm I don't think that's a metric people use for HOF induction, but Jim Thome and Reggie Jackson to start, and they did it far more than Votto. Even Mickey Mantle did it once, and at a younger age than Votto. Also he was in his age 37 season when he got his 2000th hit. And the career avg and strikeout/hits were only due to his declining years and partly while playing injured or coming back from injury. You're not debating in good faith and relying on hyperbole. Cubs fan? lol
@@KEALOHA-ju4jmbelieve it or not, but when people get old they get worse at sports
The 2008 Cubs won 97 games that season and Soto was the starting catcher so that’s probably why he received wayyy more ROY votes than Votto despite similar numbers
Deservedly so, IMO. I love Votto, but there is a big difference between a catcher putting up those numbers, and a first baseman.
Man, saying "Votto is at the end of his peak" has not aged well in the year 2021...
Came here to say this
Votto is a HOF. His numbers deserve it.
Close, but I agree. It's the OBP and WAR7 that do it for me.
He's a Hall of Fame-er! You just know it before the rest !
@Mark Schultz things have changed my guy. Votto has a good chance
@Mark Schultz Votto has much better numbers than Oliver. You conveniently left out that Votto has a much higher on base percentage, 100 more home runs, and an NL MVP (which is better than a batting title).
@Mark Schultz My point was that Oliver isn't deserving. Even Votto is borderline.
Bottom line: He's a HOFer only if the HOF voters are impressed by OBP as much as the advocates of the new metrics are convinced of its fundamental importance.
Sabermetricians tells us that there's no single more important offensive stat than OBP.
The only plausible exception is WAR, which most people (including yours truly) don't particularly understand
José Hunter's EW&F Remixes agree what exactly is WAR or even what does it stand for?
@@Speedster___ Wins Above Replacement
There's a complicated formula that you can't just look at and say, "Oh, that makes sense".
In contrast, OBP is precisely and literally (the rate at which you are) not making an out.
And your team only gets 27 of them per game, and when you've used up those 27 outs, it's all over, so you must treat those 27 as precious.
So it's really easy to see why OBP is important.
As for WAR, you can google it, but it's not likely to make tremendous sense. Also, there are at least two major ways of computing it:
bWAR
fWAR
@@Speedster___ "Wins Above Replacement"
Is a measure that measures an approximate value of a player's production compared to the production a "replacement player" would provide. The replacement player is basically a fringe player, a guy who can be pulled from AAA for nominal cost.
AAA player/scrub ~ 0 WAR
Solid Starter ~ 2 WAR
AllStar ~ 4-5 WAR
Superstar ~ 6 WAR
MVP ~ 7+ WAR
Monster seasons like 01 Bonds, 23 Ruth, 85 Doc, 00 Pedro, 72 Carlton or 68 Gibson or 75 Morgan are 11 or 12 WAR
pullt ah thanks that really helped I’m more football then base ball :-)
@@Speedster___ in football terms, replacement player is basically a practice squad guy, 8th O-Line, 7th DB, 6th WR, etc, etc....someone who is on the 53-man roster who isn't on the game day 46 dressed....
He's one of the most iconic players of his era. I don't see how anyone could consider him not a hall of famer.
he probably won't get in right away,iconic,not quite,HOF worthy,yeah!
@@t-squared6406 Iconic is a good thing....however, I'd say "era defining" sums it up better. Great production post-steroid era, with stats that back up what gets emphasized these days: high OBP with 200 hits a year or BA not mattering....
@@pullt Votto is a very good player,he could make the HOF,I would lean toward no at the moment,not quite enough production,got an MVP,could have 2 more All-Star games would help,that is why he is compelling,really for now you could argue either way.
@@t-squared6406 I tend to agree.
He'll be right on the line. Anyone claiming he's a shoo-in or obvious choice is equally as wrong as those claiming he's got zero shot or is completely undeserving....
He doesn't even have 2,000 hits yet and in this season and last his OBP is down by 70 points from his career average. He is still at least two years off from almost pulling even with Larry Walker, whose OBP was also over .400. Not making the bigs until 23 and becoming a fulltime player at 24 really fucks him over compared to someone like Adrian Beltre who made the bigs at 19 and was a fulltime player at 20.
He’s honestly having a good season this year maybe that helps his case
Second ballot, 79%
Fair enough
I can see this happening
Just look at career OPS and career being 53% better than the average hitter. Those are incredible statistics
lol, he is 40 yrs old and just got his 2,000th hit.
he just got his 1,600th strikeout now and has a sub.300 career average while playing in a little league joke park
now try show me a HOF player who had more strikeouts than hits in 4 straight seasons.. Votto has done this last 4 seasons lol
Votto is definitely a HOF’er though
Yep. If he isn't then the HOF is dumb.
Joey Votto hit 28 home runs this year and passed 2000 hits. It's his best season in several years. He now has 323 home runs and will likely play a few more seasons. Let's say he plays 2 more seasons and hits 15 home runs and gets 120 hits a season. That puts him at 2250 hits with 353 home runs. He also has 2.2 WAR. Let's say he gets up to 2.5 by the end of the season. That's 63.4 bWar. If he can muster 3.5 bWar over 2 seasons he's at 67. No way he's not in the Hall with these numbers.
lol, he is 40 yrs old and just got his 2,000th hit.
he just got his 1,600th strikeout now and has a sub.300 career average while playing in a little league joke park
now try show me a HOF player who had more strikeouts than hits in 4 straight seasons.. Votto has done this last 4 seasons lol
He absolutely belongs in the Hall of Fame.
im not even a votto fan, but this man absolutely deserves to be in the hall of fame. his advanced metrics are freakin insane
i hope he gets in
Votto’s first AB since you made this was a 2 run moon shot
Think he might have a late shot at getting in, sort of like Larry Walker. Very solid player and a great career thus far, but the last couple of years will be really telling
I agree it will probably take awhile,the question is did he do it long enough,I believe he deserves it!
He just hit 8 Homers in 9 games no and broke his old record. He also tied a mlb record and joined the company of 8 other players. HOF bound. He'll probably hit 35 HR this season too and make the playoffs. He has 21 right now on August 4th.
I really like the background music in your videos when your talking. How do you edit that into your videos
^
I don’t know
You just add it during the editing
When you edit, there is also an audio track. Just download some music and find what sounds good to you :)
SportStorm ok thank you so much. Love your videos
Very well done. I think he gets in after several years of being on the ballot, and I say that as a Reds fan.
No way votto doesn't get in.
Votto: AB: 6871 H: 2058 HR: 336 BA: .300 OBP: .414 MVP 2010 AS 6 time OPS+ 147
Walker AB: 6907 H: 2160 HR:383 BA: .313 OBP:.400 MVP 1997. AS 5 time OPS+ 141
both are Canadian and were criminally underrated in their prime I know Walker has way more GG and SS than Votto’s but with a lower career OPS+ despite similar OBP. I’d say Larry should have made it at as a batsman alone, therefore so should Votto.
In fact his numbers are eerily similar to Walker’s over a similar time frame. And he’s Canadian. Holy shit he is Larry Walker!!?! Average, AB, Career HR and Hits. It’s scary. What’s even scarier is it seems his recent emphasis on HR was an adjustment made with Cooperstown in mind. He’s earned it, but like Walker I think it’s gonna take a grass roots movement by the fans to get him in. I hope I’m wrong.
Pretty sure Votto will be the Larry Walker of the 2030’s….damn shame. What’s worse is this obsession with pigeonholing guys based on position.
Need an updated video on votto after this season. Joey Votto still bangs
Definitely a hall of famer, hopefully he can have a couple more pretty decent seasons to pad those counting stats
Channel advice my guy: videos like andruw Jones are good, obvious videos are not. We all know Votto is a hall of famer.
This ones easy. It would be harder to make the case that he doesnt deserve it
I'll admit I'm biased, Joey Votto is my favorite current baseball player and is tied with Justin Morneau for my all time favorite baseball player, and I do believe he will be a hall of famer
“If (Votto) was ranked below someone, that someone would be Josh Hamilton, who just had an insane 2010 season.”
Indeed. Just imagine how good his first team would’ve been had they not traded him. That team being the Cincinnati Reds.
Also my Cubs actually took him and then just sorta gave him to the Reds for like.....some rule 5 draft trade or some random shit like that......which maybe was good cause he mighta slowed down the tanking efforts back then😂
100% HOF and should be a 1st ballot HOF
I don’t know if you can but I think you should do a video on Devin Williams and his change up. That’s something I would be very interested in
I believe Geovany Soto won the rookie of the because they made the playoffs, it used to be a huge factor
And now he’s one of the best power hitters on the league this year. This season HAS to just put HOF on lock.
lol, he is 40 yrs old and just got his 2,000th hit.
he just got his 1,600th strikeout now and has a sub.300 career average while playing in a little league joke park
now try show me a HOF player who had more strikeouts than hits in 4 straight seasons.. Votto has done this last 4 seasons lol
Seriously the comparison between him and Walker is downright freaking me out, seriously look at thier BBR pages?!? The top line is spooky. Don’t worry I’ll do it for you
Votto: AB: 6871 H: 2058 HR: 336 BA: .300
Walker AB: 6907 H: 2160 HR:383 BA: .313
Anyone here after 7 straight games with a Homer?
As a Reds fan I wish Pete and I really hope Joey is in the hall
“Has confirmed the suspicion that votto is st the end of his peak”
2021 Votto: Hold my beer
I’m just 129 games 36 home runs, 99 RBI, 77 walks .375 OBP, .563 SLG and .938 OPS (just a tick better than his career mark) and a 136 OPS+
Plenty of gas left in Joey V
Joseph Daniel Votto’s not a first ballot Hall of Famer, but a future Hall of Famer nonetheless. After all, he is Canada’s greatest gift to the world so I think he’s deserving. #GoReds #CanadianJesus
This is a HUGE pet peeve of mine.
There are all these great norm-referenced stats available these days, along with the Bill James HOF stats (HOF Monitor and HOF Standards). There's even the black ink test. And yet your only three HOF stats in this video were stinking WAR. Using WAR in Hall of Fame discussions is a gross misuse of the stat. Any stat that rewards you for contributions below average is COMPLETELY INAPPROPRIATE for Hall of Fame discussions. You pick Hall of Famers by comparing them to their eras or to the All-Time greats of baseball, not by comparing them to Eduardo Nunez.
At the time this video was published, I think your case was perfectly valid and I agree that there is a strong case for him to be in the HOF, though maybe not first ballot. After hitting home runs in 7 straight games, and if his production continues apace throughout this 2021 season and the Reds make the post--season, then he should be in the HOF for sure.
Then you look at all the aspects of Votto outside of the statistics. People will argue to what extent these should factor in, but for Votto, I think you have to agree he's been a positive force in terms of the culture of the game and how he's carried himself as a career Cincinnati Red. His interactions with fans. His antics. How hard he works, while simultaneously having a huge amount of fun and more reverence to the history of baseball than most players I can think of. Votto is a treasure on many levels.
He's either be voted in or he won't. My fear, and this makes me sound like an old man (I'm 35), is that in our current society that is so obsessed with achievement and metrics and quantifying everything, people like Joey Votto get overlooked. I know baseball fans are a different breed and value history, integrity and strength of character as much or more than fans of other sports, but the way things are going with sports, people's attention spans keep shrinking and everyone is worried isn't sexy or flashy enough.
Votto is the everyman's player, sort of like "Cespedes for the rest of us". He's as big a fan of baseball as anyone and has a big heart. Long live Joey Votto!
I don't like to make comparisons to other players. Joey Votto has one of the highest on base percentages of all time.
If Harold Baines is a hall of famer, Votto should be first ballot.
Let's be honest. Harold Baines is easily the worst Hall of Famer. He has zero business even sniffing the HoF.
@@damonke79
Thats true. Don't want to be a hater, but...
As a Cardinals fan, in a way I'm grateful for Harold Baines, because there's no longer a reason to consider Red Schoendienst as possibly the worst hall of famer. Harold Baines should not be used as a metric to determine who belongs in the hall of fame, because almost everyone will agree that Harold doesn't belong in the hall of fame.
Kenny Lofton should be in the HoF
And Larry Walker
Great work, awesome video and a great case for Votto's HOF candidacy.
Torii Hunter. His numbers are much better then I realized. Nearly 2500 hits, 350 hrs and a career .280 hitter. 9 gold gloves as well.
Look at what Joey is doing now folks….. he is certainly a HOF candidate in my eyes but I’m a Vinci native and lifelong refs fan, lol
People put WAAAYY too much stock in home run numbers. You have to look at a player’s career on a while, not compare them to a persons position average.
Vottos attitude and the way he interacts with children helps him too.
Maybe you should update this video because Votto is on FIRE and has been for the last month or so. I agree with you my friend.
He was definitely going to be a HOF before this year, now he might be a first ballot
Anyone else here after Votto won Player of the Month for July 2021? If there were ever any doubts about his Hall of Fame case, I think this year he put those doubts to bed.
He is definitely first ballot hof
No sadly not
Probably deserving, though he's fallen off a cliff so a few more bad seasons to end his career will definitely hurt his case
2nd-3rd round
lol no
I was surprised when Perez and Larkin made it in, so I'm hesitant to say a sure no.
But they have rings and Joey doesn't, he needs to have a major post-season moment for me to seriously consider leaning towards a yes.
why do people use All Star Games as a barometer on a player's success? it is voted by fans. too many unworthy players make it just because fans know their name blocking players that actually deserve it. in other words, the all star game has become a joke.
I say yes he is he just needs to be a stat sheet filler between 2020 to 2024 depending on how good he can be at that he might get a first place balet. I say no but you never know. But #19 will be retired 100%
Juan Soto is the new OBP king!
His case has definitely risen quite a bit just from this past season. As a Reds fan, I'm glad that this guy has been with us throughout his whole career. With the 2021 season over, if he plays 1-2 more seasons at an average or respectable level, I think he will become a lock
baseball is different now. we know that slugging numbers and home runs arent everything and that on base percentage trumps pretty much all. votto deserves to be in the hall of fame
I think the case is definitely made, but just like the MVP voting he's probably not going to get 1st
Great video. I don't think you can hold the fact that he was a first basemen against him. If Cinci had another traditional 1B power hitter on their roster, Votto would have pretty easily slid to 3B or even LF/RF. He played the position that was the best fit for the franchise.
He needs to be a 1st ballot HOF
lol, he is 40 yrs old and just got his 2,000th hit.
he just got his 1,600th strikeout now and has a sub.300 career average while playing in a little league joke park
now try show me a HOF player who had more strikeouts than hits in 4 straight seasons.. Votto has done this last 4 seasons lol
To me he's the Gilbert Arenas of Major League Baseball, minus the gun scandal
2021 Votto: Hold my beer
Consider Zack Greinke, one of my favorite players for HOF consideration?
Greinke is easily a Hall of Famer.
Greinke is a first ballot hall of famer no doubt.
Mike trout has worse playoff woes than Votto and ain’t no question he’s getting in.
i honestly thought he was an obvious HOF inductee; i had no idea it was debatable.
Hes having a monster 2021! Votto sure fire HOF!
Votto is definitely A HOF.
1 of thee best hitters of his time and he’s got a GG as well.
need an updated video ! he was jesus in a batters box once again in 2021
Definitely need an update after what votto has been doing this year..
5:19 to be fair it was a .025 difference in on base percentage and like .060 in slugging I get it
This video didn't age good. Joey V is a beat this year 2021 🤙
As long as the reds don’t fire sale in the offseason, they could definitely make a playoff run before Votto retires
lets be realistic they wont make it cuz theyre hot garbage
@@blazin1397
The Reds have the players to win a pennant in '21 or '22 if they actually put it all together
@@harveyboy7019 Facts
Ooof this comment did not age well with all the guys they lost
then he had 7 consecutive games with a homer at the tail end of his career
Maybe because Soto went to the playoffs? Best I can come up with.
Votto is a legend man
Absolute
This year puts it to rest, he’s a HOF inductee no question
How about HOF cases for
Carlos beltran
Johana santana
@ 10:30 , well it's the next few years and I'd say he's in
Idk what you do about video recommendations. But to follow up your roller coaster Mets video, I would like to see one on the 2012 A’s another roller coaster team and one of my favorites of all time
I feel like Votto has always been 30 .
consider doing jroll eventually lmao
Has no chance at the hall...
Matthew bartlett uhhh what? He had a very good career
Mason Snowden having a “very good career” doesn’t make you a hall of famer.
Mason Snowden he had a .264 average... only a 95 OPS+... he was a good fielder but being just a good fielder doesn’t get you the hall. He was just fun to watch. He never had a season above .300 average and that pushes away voters even more, especially when it’s a shortstop. He only had a 47 career war, he is not going to get any votes and he will be removed from the ballot....
Matthew bartlett dude, what about Ozzie Smith? He was purely a fielding genius. He was a terrible hitter. As far as hitting, if you go look at smiths stats and Rollins stats, their not that different. Yet Ozzie is in the hall. And well deserved. One of the greatest defensive shortstops in history. But your argument falls flat if you make the comparison. Hitting isn’t the only category that gets you in the hall.
He should be a hall of famer
Definitely going to the hall at some point
How in the hell did Geovany Soto win ROTY over Votto that year? What a sham.
Soto was actually really good that year......which turned out to be his only good year really. For one year he was Wilson Contreras lol.
You’ve convinced me he’s HOF but what about fielding?
Nothing elite but mostly reliable and, at very worst, a little above average. Had some silly mistakes these past couple years due to age but that happens with every 1B
Do a HOF video on Mark Buehrle. Perfect game and no hitter. 200+ inning seasons. World series champ. 60 WAR, but no Cy Young love. Interested in your opinion.
This video didn't age well.
Keep it up! Would you consider doing a video on the KC outfield?
God I wish
You should do a vid on jimmy rollins
He's not going to end up with the counting stats. He also has never been a big RBI/Home Run guy for a First Baseman. Nevertheless, he's just been such a great hitter and a pretty good defensive player. I think he definitely gets in...eventually
Votto has to enter in the HoF. He’s an On Base Machine!
After what he just did a couple hours ago, he deserves it
he was the "straight man" of the 2019 reds
Anddddddd he's back in 2021
Votto's swing sweet.
I think if he has 2-4 more solid seasons he’s definitely in
You should do paul Goldschmidt next he showed up alot on the mvp ballot leaderboards but started his career a little later than some HOF'ers so he wont reach some of the career milestones
I don’t feel like Votto is a HOFer. He has 65 WAR which is just barely enough. 356 HR is not impressive. 2135 hits is also kind of weak. 1 MVP 1 Goldglove 6 allstars…NO silver sluggers. He will probably get in bc people like him but if they didn’t then he almost assuredly wouldn’t get in with this resume. Honestly, I don’t think he deserved his mvp either. It should of went to Pujols but the media that year got caught up in the fact that it was going to be the first time the reds won the division in 15 years so they gave it to him. The awards are not my only reason, like I said his war is marginal and his counting stats are good but not great. Jeff Bagwell barely got in and he played in a huge park for most of his career. He played two less years had more war 79.9, more hits 2314, more HR 449, and more walks 1401 with higher numbers across the board. OBP is vottos calling card. Bagwell’s OBP was better. Votto is like the poor man’s Jeff Bagwell and it took Bagwell seven years to get there. Back then they said it would be tough to get in bc he didn’t have 500 HR and 2500 hits. If that’s the bar then Votto is out. the participation trophy era has lowered the standard and it has become more of a popularity contest now so I’m sure he gets in bc everybody loves Joey votto.
Joey Votto is the MLB equivalent of Patrick Ewing. Super talented and a giant pain in the ass for opponents year in and year out, but hamstrung by a mediocre team and a rotation of guys at the same position on other teams who are consistently similar stat-wise.
Votto had the highest WAR from 2010-2019 of anyone not named Mike Trout
@@averagejoefilmsofficial WAR! What is good for? absolutely nothing!
Hey SportStorm! Love the channel! I think Yadi would be an interesting player to do!
Yadi is definitely A HOF. As well as is Votto.
Both 2 of Thee Best from their time.
Roy Oswalt or Johan Santana discussion please. Plus a discussion on the future of evaluating pitchers.